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Nearly six weeks after Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 plummeted to Earth from the skies over eastern Ukraine, the world is clueless as to what actually happened. Whatever did take place over separatist held territory between Ukraine and Russia, the original reporting was inaccurate. What’s of growing concern for many is the long silence from U.S. officials with real proof of their contentions.
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 has become a credibility sore that demands a remedy soon.
What is absolutely known about MH17?
On July 17, a Boeing 777-200ER passenger airliner carrying 298 persons took off from Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport en route to Kuala Lampur. Air controllers in Kiev lost contact with the plane at at 13:15 p.m. about 50 kilometers from the Ukraine-Russia border near the town of Toretz in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine. We also know the downing of MH17 is the worst aircraft “shoot-down” tragedy in history. But if you rely on news media, the U.S. State Department, or even the White House for vital information on these world-shaking events, you’ve only speculation to go on. The media frenzy placing blame on Russian President Vladimir Putin in the hours after MH17 was reported missing, is as useless as information into the second Malaysian airliner loss this year (Flight 370 disappeared back in March).
Facts are few and far in-between for an incident that happened in broad daylight, and above one of the world’s most scrutinized pieces of land. All we know is that so far, unnamed U.S. intelligence sources originally attested to a BUK surface-to-air missile having downed MH17. And this, from territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists. These sources claimed intelligence was based on heat signatures of the missile, on supposed intercepted recorded separatist conversations, plus shrapnel patterns on wreckage at the crash site of MH17.
Since these early “determinations”, taken in large part from unreliable sources, a dozen or more theories at least as plausible have been suggested. The latest of these involves a Ukrainian SU-25 attack aircraft that was shadowing MH17. This was a military excursion Kiev initially denied took place, but has since been verified. Now some experts suggest MH17 fuselage damage indicated 30 mm cannon damage around the cockpit of MH17. Added to this, other evidence may suggest MH17’s engines were hit by heat-seeking air-to-air weaponry. This seems as plausible as the Kiev narrative a BUK launcher was ferried by truck to separatists, shot and downed a passenger liner, reloaded onto its semi-truck, and driven back to Russia in broad daylight.
Allegations and Guesswork: Is It All Propaganda?
Since MH17 fell in pieces into east Ukraine, neither American nor EU intelligence has provided one shred of verifiable evidence. Not NATO, the U.S. State Department, the White House, MI6, GCHQ, the European Commission, Kiev nor the mainstream media have provided anything of substance more than body counts. In fact, the preponderance of expert analysis and even testimony by eye witnesses refute even the BUK missile theory. The glut of media and governmental streams of misinformation actually impedes our knowing what really occurred. But we can analyze the various statements of officials like U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and others. Analysis of such may not give us the culprits of MH17, but it can reflect on intent and on irresponsibility in a dire international incident. And one with vast implications, I might add.
Just hours after MH17 went down, Kerry issued a generic press statement expressing U.S. administration horror over the loss. At that moment in time, every major media outlet on Earth had an MH17 headline, even though nothing really was absolutely known. Media did pick up on several sound bites, including one by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden the day of the incident. Biden stated that MH17 “had been shot down and blown out of the sky” over eastern Ukraine. It’s interesting Reuters “tweeted” Biden’s comment at 1:42 p.m. on the day of the tragedy, 4 hours and 30 minutes after the plane was lost. This means it’s logical to assume Biden “knew” what happened to MH17 literally minutes after the fact.
America’s executive branch commented differently than that of Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein. Apparently she had different intelligence, because on the same day she briefed her people on a mid-air explosion of unknown origin. Also on the same day MH17 was lost, former Secretary of State and presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton went on the Charlie Rose show to discuss MH17. In the interview, Clinton proclaimed the same “evidentiary” truths as other U.S. officials, even without a verifiable fact, and literally moments after the downing. Clinton appeared to be her normal “cagey” self, but telling the world “the equipment used had to have come from Russia” speaks volumes.
Every former Soviet satellite state has leftover weapons systems from Russia. Clinton was clearly planting the seed of anti-Putin, anti-Russia sentiment clearly. What’s more, Clinton leaves clues into her own mindset where U.S.-Russia conflict is concerned. She mentioned having read about the Russian stock market just before giving the interview.? With almost 300 people dead, and the potential for World War III breaking out, America's gleaming hope for first female president plays the stock market. Contrite as I may seem here, it’s fair to ask the question: "What must our leaders be up to?"
Two days later, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki released a statement. This one damned pro-Russian separatists for “limiting access” to the MH17 crash site. Mainstream media in the U.S. and the UK reported this as “refusing access” to investigative officials from the OSCE monitors.
“We are deeply concerned by the Russia-backed separatists’ refusal to allow OSCE monitors safe and unfettered access to the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Yesterday, the monitors were allowed only 75 minutes at the site. Today, they were allowed less than three hours. Thus far, the separatists have only allowed monitors to have limited access to a small area.”
That statement further insinuated evidence had been tampered with. Also, bodies had been removed, and that somehow Russia really controlled the separatists. The evening of the same day, July 20, Kerry was on CBS “Face the Nation.” He further incriminated Russia and the separatists as if the U.S. had indisputable proof MH17 was “blown out of the sky” by Vladimir Putin himself. The headlines read: John Kerry: "Enormous amount of evidence" Russia involved in MH17 crash.” In fact, UK tabloids and a few major media outlets led with just those kinds of headlines on their front pages. A great deal of trash journalism and iteration over social media “evidence” ensued, leaving us now with lists and dispositions of MH17 victims. Factor in the Kiev regime launching a major offensive on Donetsk while the MH17 investigation was in the early stages, and “access” to the crash site becomes less a pro-Russian fault, and more a west-backed right wing infringement. If resolving this were the goal, a ceasefire could surely speed this.
A Two-Headed Trust Coin
On the day of the crash of the Malaysian airline, even Mashable (formerly a tech blog) was on top of the story professing “data” where only speculation could possibly have been had. Just so the reader knows, the former tech blog relies heavily on information from the Kiev Post. Reading his and other Mashable headlines points at probable bias in my view. “Rebels Load MH17 Victims' Bodies Onto Train Cars, Destination Unknown”, when everything from intact black boxes (not as reported) to separatists crying over toys of child passengers (rather than bragging on as reported) attest to not simply “misunderstanding” the difference between reporting news and spreading rumor.
Looking back at the day of the tragedy, and the hours afterward though, this is what the American people may need to focus on. While the “truth” of this incident may not be known for years, our reactions weigh on every citizen of every country in the world. Sanctions against Russia by the EU in the wake of, and because of Russia’s alleged part in the MH17 tragedy, have already destroyed businesses in the EU. Worse still, a divide between economically unstable EU countries has widened. Also, U.S.-Germany interests failing to coincide could spell disaster.
Using MH17, and insinuations of Russian aggression, Western leaders have instigated an economic war that cannot be won. A so-far calm and calculating Putin finally chose to counter-sanction the West. Once EU leadership followed Washington’s lead over MH17, the Russian leader had little choice. Massive gas deals, BRICS partners taking up EU slack, and a damaged dollar currency reveal themselves. But all the Putin counter-strategies are less impactful than an EU being split apart without any proof of verifiable Russian culpability. And this is not just my view.
Finally, the numbers and kinds of coincidences surrounding the Ukraine situation seem far too many and impactful. Take Putin’s counter-strategies versus West sanctions into account for a moment. Just days before MH17 was lost, Putin and the other BRICS membership agreed to star their own world bank. In fact, the Russian president was on his way back to Moscow from Brazil on the same day as the Malaysian airliner was lost. Not only this, but Putin flew along part of the same flight path as MH17. One theory suggests Kiev (or even the CIA) may have intended to assassinate Putin over separatist territory. Forget the fact Putin’s version of Air Force One had stopped flying over Ukraine months before, this is just another of dozens of weird coincidental bits and pieces of an impossible puzzle.
Whatever facts we do have on MH17 now, these seem less impactful than the Spanish farmer burning an EU flag over harvested peach crops. Representatives of Spanish Young Farmers and Ranchers of Catalonia burned several flags atop tons of peaches piled in front of Lleida city hall in Catalonia. Spain, as you probably already know, is economically struggling since the “Great Recession” began in 2008. Like Greece, Portugal, and an ever-widening swath of European Union countries, unemployment and other hardships have shattered lives there. Sanctions on a consumer like Russia, at such a time, the EU seems headed to catastrophic meltdown. Greece farmers stand to lose 200 million euros they can ill afford. Finland’s losses over sanctions will be vastly disproportionate. Italy’s agriculture sector is threatened with collapse. Britain’s dairy farmers are all but up in arms over the collapse of that market, and the list of deep implications goes on and on.
ING Group told reporters recently, a yearlong trade embargo with Russia could cost €6.7 billion euro. They went on to report, the potential loss of 130,000 jobs in countries already smashed with joblessness. What we’re witnessing here is the potential for a world economic cataclysm. And it's all over nothing more substantial than “rumors” instigated ether through gross malfeasance, or Machiavellian leadership. Western leadership, and the media that mirrors their rhetoric, is incompetent, or criminal in their strategies to legitimize propaganda.
The reasoning behind this finger pointing does not matter. Most level-headed experts agree that if U.S. intelligence had any proof MH17 was downed by Russia or pro-Russian separatists, we’d have already seen it. On the other side of this détente coin with two heads sides, media from BBC to Reuters and even the mighty New York Times have totally ignored the only solid evidence on MH17. A few days after the U.S., Britain, Australia, and other nations showed MH17 victim families begging Putin for reasons their children were massacred, the Russian Defense Ministry released satellite imagery and radar data in a detailed report.
Supposedly, Putin has ordered a humanitarian invasion into east Ukraine. This too has interestingly ended up as only a delivery in which the “invaders” have already returned to Russia. This is akin to the wolves and wild dogs roaming the streets of Sochi during the Winter Olympiad, or perhaps the LGBT people who were crucified in public during those Sochi Games. Not unlike all the other drummed up evidence used to start wars throughout history, MH17 has been used to create conflict, and nothing more.
To sum up, I would suggest here that readers ask the question: “What kind of leader would allow ethnic Russians to starve to death or die of thirst a few kilometers from Russia’s border?” As citizens of these various nations, it seems just and right for us to demand the evidence implicating the perpetrators of this crime. What possible damage could intelligence community images, data, or conversations have in a time where no individual on Earth is immune to intelligence breeches? If the NSA can spy on us all, why can’t our representatives force the release of this vital data? You don’t have to agree with me, or love the Russians either, but justice and reason must be demanded.
If not, then all trust is lost.
© Japan Today
24 Comments
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Star-viking
Night Knight.
I checked your video. Yes, the Su-25s are flying at 8700 metres - clean, having dropped the tanks they were carrying at the start of the video. Also, the type is not identified - so they could be the TMs Russia has.
As you say, their cannons have a max range lower than the 1.3 km height difference between MH17 and the video Su-25s. The Su-25 is also slower than the MH17, so it is hard to see how they can maneuvre into a position to attack MH17 from the front. A Mig-29 could do that, but would have to be coming from the opposite direction - from Russian airspace. Also, with the very high closing speed, and the necessity of the shooting aircraft to put itself on a collision course with MH17 - this seems like a suicidal attack. Most cannon attacks take place from the rear for that reason.
Do the math: planes closing with a combined speed of around 2000 km/hr. Cannon max range 800 metres. 2000 km/hr is about 600 meters per second. Your Mig-29 has to fly straight at MH17, and has the plane in range for cannon fire just over one second before it will collide with MH17.
Now that's a rough calculation, but also neglected is the fact that the gunnery radar probably would not be able to handle such high closing speeds. Either way, it shows how disconnected from reality these Russian conspiracy theories are.
As for the BUK warhead being capable of completely obliterating MH17, again, reality challenged stuff. These missiles were designed to shoot down targets ranging from fighter to bomber-size. The warhead is going to be large enough to take care of such targets when detonating close to them - nothing more: making it big enough to obliterate them means you have to have a bigger missile than you need to do the job. Commercial airliners are bomber-sized or larger, they are not going to be obliterated by BUK Warheads.
A good example of this is the Seoul 007 shootdown off Sahkahlin. Plane hit by two large air-to-air missiles: not obliterated, crew could attempt to recover flight for sometime after the attack.
night knight
@Star-vikingAUG. 29, 2014 - 01:02AM JST
It says "service ceiling" , not "maximum". Besides, I provided a video where SU-25 was flying at height of 8700 meters. Please, check it.
The gun has a range from 200 to 800 meters.
Those guys made a very detailed research and concluded that holes and traces on wreckage of MH17 weren't caused by BUK missile.
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/rossiyskiy-soyuz-inzhenerov-rekonstrukciya-ataki-na-boing/
BUK produces a bright flash of launch, loud noise, white smoke tale and a white cloud of specific shape while hitting a target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0
But nobody of bystander saw them .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjoUzI_cpyY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j9xqtvieao
People noticed a military airplane second before dowining of MH17 . Here is an interview of locals, given to BBC reporter :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVdwUdlswOY
According to mentioned research of Union of Engineers, "an unindentified military plane (either SU-25 or MIG-29) climbed at a height of MH17. Heading towards to MH17, pilot of military airplane deliberately shot the civil jet down, using aircraft mounted gun. Bullets destroyed a cockpit and left traces on port wing of the civil jet. The damage of cockpit caused a rapid decompression of cabin and destruction of airplane."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U
BUK warhead contains hundreds of steel shrapnel and produces enormous blast, hitting a target. So, BUK missile would torn the civil jet apart on tiniest pieces . No any large pieces of wreckage could be found after that.
Star-viking
Night Knight,
Sukhoi themselves state the SU25K has a maximum ceiling, when clean, of 7000 metres.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/
Note the word "clean". That means they would have nothing by their internal cannon - and they would have to hit MH17 at either 3 km straight up, or more at a slant. They could try a zoom climb, but then gun stability would be an issue. The gun is also short-ranged - so even those far-out scenarios may be moot.
As for the 25TM - 8 made for Russia before the programme was canceled.
As for the bullet-holes: I think it can be assumed that they are actually impacts from the BUK's fragmentation warhead. As for continuous-rod warheads, as I've shown, they are not likely to have been used, and whoever is pushing that story is probably mistaking the aerodynamic break-up of the fusealge with the cutting-action of the continuous-rod warhead.
Serrano
"Ukraine did it"
So U.S. Sec of State Kerry has no idea what he's talking about?
FizzBit
I guess this slipped past the MSM as well.
"The Causes of the MH17 Crash are "Classified". Ukraine, Netherlands, Australia, Belgium Signed a "Non-disclosure Agreement"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-causes-of-the-mh17-crash-are-classified-ukraine-netherlands-australia-belgium-signed-a-non-disclosure-agreement/5397194
alex rockstone
Were rebels interested in cover-up of crash reasons, they would never secure the crash site, find and transfer black boxes to Malaysians. At the same time Ukranians still have been refusing to provide data and recorded talks between trafic cintrollers, pilots of MH17 and military operators of anti-aircraft systems. Furthermore, Ukranians tried to bomb and seize the crash site, preventing investigators to reach wreckage and work.
Bellpeppers
Ukraine did it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
night knight
@SerranoAUG. 27, 2014 - 11:03PM JST
Because I prefer to believe in facts. The flight MH17 was downed over highly populated area. The wreckage itself is located between 3 villages. Hence, bright flash of launch, loud noise and fat smoke trail of BUK missile might be noticed by many locals. But nobody saw them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSXMhaFntrU
They saw a military airplane :
@Star-vikingAUG. 27, 2014 - 11:03PM JST
http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/
Actually, SU-25 can climb up to 12 000 meters. It depends of modification of the plane. Here is an old video where SU-25 flew at 8700 meters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_2NoHdNso
SU-25TM (SU-39) has service ceiling at 12 000 meters (39 300 ft)
Traces on wing and crew cabin resemble of holes caused by 30 millimeter aircraft mounted gun and continuos rods of air-to-air missile.
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/rossiyskiy-soyuz-inzhenerov-rekonstrukciya-ataki-na-boing/
praack
I am deeply impressed with the misinformation presented as an article here- i guess Putin is of course the injured party here, the Ukrainians are the fascists as portrayed by the Russians and the pro-Russians Ukrainians- and of course the information reported immediately after stating - we shot it down by the pro -Russians and indicating the unit is of course now lies.
everyone else is of course at fault- so easy to say if you listen to RT, but if you look at facts- when Crimea was taken by Russian forces then turned over to the pro-Russians (even Putin says so now), when the pro-Russians have equal or better arms than the Ukrainians- and for some reason the leadership to support an extended defense - this is not some independent farmer revolt, these are individuals seeded with professionals.
what makes this tragedy shameful is that the EU has not lived up to the original agreements, and that aid - including weapons are not available to the Ukraine- unless they pay- while Russia is allowed to do whatever they want. that is where the power of a security council member comes in play.
Татьяна Димитриевич
The MH17 was shot down “by mistake” according to an official statement by the head of Ukraine’s Secret Service, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko (Ukraine News Service, August 7, 2014)
According to SBU Chief Nalyvaichenko:
“Ukraine’s law enforcement and intelligence agencies have established during the investigation into a terrorist attack on the Boeing… that on that day, July 17, and at that time military mercenaries and terrorists from the Russian Federation planned to carry out a terrorist attack against a passenger aircraft of Aeroflot en route from Moscow to Larnaca… as a pretext for the further invasion by Russia,”
“This cynical terrorist attack was planned for the day when the [Malaysia Airlines] plane happened to fly by, planned by war criminals as a pretext for the further military invasion by the Russian Federation, that is, there would be a casus belli,” he added.
Thus, according Nalyvaichenko, the terrorists downed the Malaysian airliner by mistake.” (Ukraine Interfax News, August 8, 2014)
WilliB
I disagree with the article. About flight MH17, I think we know enough to make a reasonable guess. And eventually, after some years, proof will turn up.
Now the OTHER Malaysia Air flight, that is a different story. I think it is quite possible that we will never find out the details of what happened there.
barth
Here in the Netherlands there are two seperate investigions going on, regarding MH17. Proper and throughout investigations.
The first is the international investigation lead by the Dutch Savety Board. Those investigators are experts on aviation and focussed on safety for passengers and crews. The investigation is according to the rules of the ICAO. A preliminairy report of that investigation will be released early september, (may be next week) That report will not discuss blame or liability, but they do present evidence about the causes of the incident. They are focussed on what have to be done to prevent such incidents ever to happen again in the future. It's not as simple as solely the question "who pulled he trigger", There are many responsabilities. They have also to investigate why so many planes were flying above that area of conflict. It could also have happened with one of the other planes whith a similar flightpath. Passengers and crews must be protected against situations of risk. The Investigation is in possession of the transcripts of the black boxes, the airtrafic control tapes from Kiev, satellite data, and radar images. The world will hear about their contents early september, and that is soon.
A second investigation is a huge criminal investigation by the Dutch public prosecution service. (the largest ever in the Netherlands) They investigate the possibilities for juridical prosecution of those who are responsable. It's a murdercase with 298 victims. If it will be possible to bring it to court. It will not be easy and a case for many years. (Lockerby trial lasted 7 years, and this one is even more complicated.)
Star-viking
The author either has done little research, or is in bed with the Russians. The Su-25 he describes as a likely candidate for shooting down MH17 flies slower than it, 10,000 feet below it, with wepons that either could't reach it - or would not do anywhere near the damage we saw. Good references here:
http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/
Serrano
"Ukranians shot down the civil airplane, using guns and air-to-air missiles of their interceptors."
And you know this because... ?
night knight
We know the truth. Ukranians shot down the civil airplane, using guns and air-to-air missiles of their interceptors. Since the very beginning, Americans and Europeans have been covering Ukrainians, blaming Russians and spreading false evidence and plain lie..
wnagler1
Mr. Butler is a clearly pro-Russian journalist. Go to his website All Things PR. He offers a long droning set of opinions but he provides few facts. Just as bad as popular Western media.
A fact I do know directly from Boeing is that Russians went in the crash site and cut away and took many of the high tech components of the downed B-777..
The only thing I agree with him about it will be years before any semblance of the so-called truth is made public.
TrevorPeace1
A good open-minded article. When will the truth come out? I suppose only when someone in the position to have irrefutable evidence actually releases it. But that takes not only honesty, but a firm commitment to humanity, and those two traits are not displayed all that often by those people we call leaders, and too often trumped by political motives, some of which Mr. Butler has laid on the table.
Asakaze
MH17 was shot down on July 17. What a foresight!
And why US and Ukrainian authorities keep silent on this "intercept" now? And why Kiev authorities would not submit the recording and disclosure the transcript of radio traffic between the plane and the local air traffic control tower?
Wakarimasen
Is there any information on the author? while I might be convinced that the Russians have been wrongfully blamed for this incident, not sure this article does it for me. seems like a bunch of disparate rants thrown together with no real logic or cohesive argument.
JeffLee
"Alleged intercepted phone conversations released by Ukraine’s security service of pro-Russian rebels discussing how they shot down Malaysian airliner MH17 are genuine, the US embassy in Kiev said Sunday." (July 14)
http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-recordings-ukraine-rebels-admitting-mh17-downing-161443402.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10975218/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-Intercepted-call-suggests-rebels-to-blame.html
Asakaze
Nice article. Gives facts and shows the situation from different viewpoints. Very refreshing after wild speculations of first days from the crash.
Black boxes are now at London, bodies are collected. It means rebels did not interrupt the investigation. Malaysian authorities thanked the rebel leaders for their full cooperation. Check "New Straits Times".
It is a confirmed fake, cuts of conversations of different people in different time. Even Kiev and Washington forgot now about this "evidence". Want to bring it to life again?
Kazuaki Shimazaki
You mean, Kiev released recordings that are ostensibly Russian-rebels speaking to Russian agents.
Kevin Tipp
" It's kinda hard when armed thugs are protecting the site and blocking investigators from accessing the wreckage.."
Well, whats interesting is that from the day the aircraft was downed armed pro Russian fighters were seen (from media footage) roaming arround the wrackage area. yet we were also told that investigators were failing to carry out they work due to intesne fighting in the vicinity of the crush site. if the ukrainian government were so keen to cooperate with the investigators, why bring the army to fight in that area at exactly the same time?
the regime in Kiev pedals lies only matched by their US counterparts. given that Russian was an official language in Ukraine, its hardly suprising that Ukranians all over theo country can speak Russian. So what is the Ukranian army cooked up the radio communications with the sole aim to incriminate Russia? surely thats not even far fetched.
already only a few weeks ago we read how western media cooked up a story about Rusian armoured car invasion where two reporters claimed to have witnessed that armoured column breaking a fence to drive into Ukrainain territory, yet showed zero footage to p[rove such a sighting. All what the articles-(primarily UK guardian articles) showed was footage of the russian aid convoy as if the two were one and the same thing.
JeffLee
The writer wants evidence? It's kinda hard when armed thugs are protecting the site and blocking investigators from accessing the wreckage.
".... Kiev nor the mainstream media have provided anything of substance more than body counts."
This isn't true. Kiev released recordings of Russian-speaking rebels reporting the downing to Russian agents via cell phone, with the rebels asking how they should respond.
Earlier, we saw the same kind of Russian agents and special forces in the Crimea taking over Ukrainian facilities, in full view of the world's camera. It's blindingly obvious what the Russians and their thug allies are up to.