Free speech or hate speech? Netflix at eye of LGBTQ storm

There was no hate in The Closer. It was very funny.

No censorship. Let people say what they want no matter how hurtful, deranged or untrue it is. No level of government should ever be allowed to decide what some can or cannot say. Allowing government to censor is far more dangerous to individual liberty and self government than anything anybody can say or write.

I'm surprised and impressed that Netflix is doing the decent thing and supporting free speech.

Left wing censorship is as toxic as right wing censorship.

The freedom to offend people is inherent in both the arts (especially comedy) and the sciences (Galileo and Darwin were not popular in religious circles).

Activists have a right to be heard, but do not have a veto over everything.

I don't say this often, but good for Netflix.

Dave said NOTHING offensive at all. Those who think he did hasn't watched all of his recent specials.

Dave loved by 100's millions of fans from all over the world.

A very few people (probably around 6 or 7) choose to be offended (typically because they watched 'out of context' cut and edited snippets and not the whole routine).

The PROBLEM...

"Main stream media" in the US for some bizarre reason listens to the minuscule amount of people who choose to be offend. Then they publish stories as if the whole world is up in arms and offended by Dave's comedy specials. Which of course they are not.

From the LGBTQ+ community (the alphabet squad) it is only a very small minority of the T's and Q's who are complaining and pretending to be offended in order to seek attention.

The whole cancel culture is being driven by just a handful of uber-delicate snowflakes (fact not an insult). This will not end until the media accepts it for what it is and stops exaggerating the otherwise inaudible protests.

Strangerland:

Not to you, and not to me either. But that doesn't mean that some of the things he said weren't offensive to some people. 

If all content was created in order not to offend absolutely everyone, we would live in a society with no books, art, music, TV, Media or history. What a dull existence that would be.

I'm highly offended by religion, but I choose not to follow, listen or watch any of it. Problem solved. I would not try to cancel it for others (who obviously enjoy it) just because I don't like it. That is a rational way to behave.

The irrational, easily offended and attention seekers unfortunately have too much voice, media coverage and airtime at present, and that is the problem. The main stream media are the problem. They piggy back on famous people and use their fame to 'inflate otherwise insignificant information' to circulate their articles and videos to a much wider audience. FACT

I thought the special was excellent, and rather ironically only heard about because of the controversy.

I think his central message was reasonable. We should be laughing together, not 'punching each other down'.

It's OK to disagree with each other, we don't have to go over the top like and end people though.

Although it was more of a social commentary than a Comedy Special.

But it's Dave Chappelle, his job is essentially to say things that make you go...'Wait, that's just not right!'

At least he's got a discussion going.

As if the world needed yet more proof. Dave brings it home for everyone to behold, warts and all:

The Alphabet People simply cannot take a joke.

Dave said NOTHING offensive at all. Those who think he did hasn't watched all of his recent specials.

Dave loved by 100's millions of fans from all over the world.

A very few people (probably around 6 or 7) choose to be offended (typically because they watched 'out of context' cut and edited snippets and not the whole routine).

The PROBLEM...

"Main stream media" in the US for some bizarre reason listens to the minuscule amount of people who choose to be offend. Then they publish stories as if the whole world is up in arms and offended by Dave's comedy specials. Which of course they are not.

From the LGBTQ+ community (the alphabet squad) it is only a very small minority of the T's and Q's who are complaining and pretending to be offended in order to seek attention.

The whole cancel culture is being driven by just a handful of uber-delicate snowflakes (fact not an insult). This will not end until the media accepts it for what it is and stops exaggerating the otherwise inaudible protests.

Exactly, well said. Chappelle is the best and the main reason why people like him so much is because he is just too real and honest. What he said needed to have been said, long overdue.

Dave Chappelle is funny.

He shows his humanity with honesty and laughs at it,

and makes us laugh.

If people are offended by his shows, they can do a hard pass.

I’m with you all the way Mr Chappelle!

starting the Save Dave movement right here right now!”SAVE DAVE!

There is a difference between hate speech, ie inciting violence or discrimination, and offensive speech, which mocks or scorns a person, group or belief. Just because you find something offensive does not automatically mean it is hate speech. No one has the right not to be offended. I find lots of things offensive, but I accept the rights of others to be able to say it. This used to be the norm, what happened?

Dave Chapelle has my vote!

Every attempt to limit free speech or impose a penalty against speech that simply offends anyone has been overturned by the Supreme Court.

Speech inciting and encouraging someone to commit violence is illegal.

starting the Save Dave movement right here right now!”SAVE DAVE!

Dave made $24 million off that one special alone. I want Dave to save ME!

Trying to keep up with controversial terms like “terf”, etc. Both the first @7:46am and last @4:47pm posts refer to “tansphobic” and “tans people”?? - Is this some code to ‘skirt the trigger’ of “hate-speech” algorithms or, just simple typos due to the oft erroneous, yet so-called “auto-correct” feature?

- “…use that platform to say every awful, hateful, vile, bigoted, tansphobic, homophobic thing…”

*- “Companies need a brain trust of left-handed people, tans people, etc. to approve content before it’s published.*

It's not a phobia. Shoving an aberration in everyone's face continually for attention is probably what people find annoying.

If 'trans' people are offended they don't have to watch this. It's not like he's saying 'Kill all trans' or 'Kill all fags'. That would be offensive and it should offend anyone with any sense or decency at all.

And saying 'you'd better not hurt a gay person's feelings' is making a stereotype in the first place. Most gay men don't 'live up' to the image of the 'overly sensitive limp-wristed' image. Most gays aren't like that. But most of them are tired of being shoved away and treated like they're something less.

You may laugh at this but the Village People are representative of what the 'gay community' is. They're in every race (white, black, Native American in this case) and they're in every occupation and category (cowboy, Native American chief, construction worker, biker, police man, military).

And if enough people are offended and don't like the show then they can boycott it and it can go the route of Morton Downey Jr.'s show. Remember that arrogant loudmouth?

The irrational, easily offended and attention seekers

I read this person's comments, and they didn't seem to be someone irrational, or easily offended. Tell me, what issue do you have with their comments?

Do you think Chappelle has a responsibility to stop telling these jokes?

I don’t think it’s my place to tell Dave Chappelle what he needs to do. He should make the jokes that he wants to make. I cannot like them and that’s what I’m saying here.

Do you want Netflix to pull his specials?

I don’t think that’s the answer. I don’t think that’s a reasonable outcome here. I don’t think this material and a lot of his trans material has a place in discourse. I think a lot of his trans material that maybe I personally had given a pass before feels a lot worse in context of this material. Any benefit of the doubt that was given feels like it is gone. But what I really want is I want companies to hire trans people to work there who can say, “Hey, we sure about this?” The fact of the matter is there are very rarely trans people in those rooms and yet we are so often the subject of the derision. We’re very rarely in any decision-making positions. And I think that’s my bigger concern.

Link: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/dear-white-people-jaclyn-moore-dave-chappelle-netflix-1235083197/

This thread just confirms the wisdom of my wife and my decision not to have a TV in our home.

I'm a Chappelle fan generally, but I thought this special was more a rant than a stand-up comedy show. So it wasn't as funny, though the guy sure can tell a good story.

I read the comments of the trans-woman who spoke up at Netflix:

Do you think Chappelle has a responsibility to stop telling these jokes?

I don’t think it’s my place to tell Dave Chappelle what he needs to do. He should make the jokes that he wants to make. I cannot like them and that’s what I’m saying here.

Do you want Netflix to pull his specials?

I don’t think that’s the answer. I don’t think that’s a reasonable outcome here. I don’t think this material and a lot of his trans material has a place in discourse. I think a lot of his trans material that maybe I personally had given a pass before feels a lot worse in context of this material. Any benefit of the doubt that was given feels like it is gone. But what I really want is I want companies to hire trans people to work there who can say, “Hey, we sure about this?” The fact of the matter is there are very rarely trans people in those rooms and yet we are so often the subject of the derision. We’re very rarely in any decision-making positions. And I think that’s my bigger concern.

Link: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/dear-white-people-jaclyn-moore-dave-chappelle-netflix-1235083197/

I'm curious what specifically what problem, if any, people have with these comments? They seem pretty reasonable to me.

there are very rarely trans people in those rooms

But many more than trans people represent in society as a whole.

Imagine a TV show where intergenders made fun of hairy males and big-bosomed females or where asexuals elaborated their disgust of exchange of body fluids in a humourous way and wait for the response.

Transphobia is strong here among the posters.

Dave said NOTHING offensive at all. Those who think he did hasn't watched all of his recent specials.

Not to you, and not to me either. But that doesn't mean that some of the things he said weren't offensive to some people. I have a dark, dirty, twisted sense of humor, so many things that society would find offensive I find hilarious. Just as humor is subjective, so can offense be.

All you can say is that you weren't offended by what he said.

Here we go again.

Famous person: "I'm famous and have a wide audience. I also have the right to use that platform to say every awful, hateful, vile, bigoted, tansphobic, homophobic thing I want."

The rational world: You suck, shut up, we don't want to hear it.

Famous person with wide audience and worldwide platform: "Help! I'm being oppressed!"

Fans of famous person: "Cancel culture! He has the right to critisize you, but you can't oppress him by criticizing him back or by refusing to listen to him!"

The rational world: Sigh.