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He, she, they: Americans and the choice of gender pronoun

24 Comments
By Camille CAMDESSUS

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Some people have too much time on their hands.

Get a life!

9 ( +10 / -1 )

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What a load of nonsense !

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*** Over 200,000 year Home Sapiens identified as 2 genders ; male and female.

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*** Human DNA has 23 sets of chromosomes i. The 23rd set is the sex chromosome.. You either have an XY if you are male, or XX if your a female.

No changing that through hormones or surgery.

.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Now we have to revamp the whole language just to suit a small special interest group.

Are we supposed to rewrite every book and story ever written because they contain the evil "he" and "she" words that might offend some?

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Now we have to revamp the whole language just to suit a small special interest group.

Yes, and considering English is spoken word for word exactly the same as it always has been, never having evolved ever, this MUST be stopped. We all know language doesn't evolve right?

 

 

...right?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Some people have too much time on their hands.

As a species, we're all going to have more time on our hands. We've advanced far enough that we're getting to the point of being able to automate enough of our societies, it will leave us with more time to re-examine our societies, our beliefs, assumptions, and expectations, and refine them. Of course this will involve some silly things, and some serious things, but in the end it will make us into a better society.

It will be a period of disruption though. People don't like their assumptions being challenged.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

First World problems

6 ( +7 / -1 )

First World problems

Dammit! You beat me to it.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

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@strangerland.

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Evidence based on empirical science is immutable.

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The meanings of words and language itself evolve over time.

However, the two cannot be compared.

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As Gertrude Stein astutely noted: " A rose by any other name is still a rose."

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I will do my best to respect others and I expect the same. Please call me sir. Also if I do not automatically know which gender or lifestyle you identify with, that is not a free pass to start screaming at me and calling me a homophobe, racist, misogynist, etc.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Also if I do not automatically know which gender or lifestyle you identify with,

Because of that, they're arguing that all gendered language (he, she, etc.) be removed from the dictionary to make sure nobody's feelings are hurt.

Also, all historical stories, fairytales and books need to be edited to remove all references to gender, because if a transgender kids hear's the word "he" or "she" in a storybook read by the teacher, (his/her/its) feelings might be hurt.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

"When I make such an effort to look that way and people call me 'ma'am' or hold the door it makes me angry," Cross said.

Maybe you need to accept that people can see through your superficial attempts to fool them by manipulating your appearance. Maybe you need to accept that other people aren’t the problem.

These days people are literally making up new human rights while ignoring responsibilities. “You need to respect me even though I don’t respect you!” And then they’re angry that the world doesn’t bend to their will.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Mallory Cross, whose hair is cut short, said "I think I'm aware of how I look like and how people read me, I'm very masculine."

"When I make such an effort to look that way and people call me 'ma'am' or hold the door it makes me angry," Cross said.

That is pretty funny. If someone held the door for me I would be pleased, and if they said ma'am I would be amused as I am a balding male. But I would not be angry because I don't have a 50 pound chip on my shoulder about every little slight.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Elizabeth Warren, one of the frontrunners in the crowded 2020 U.S. Democratic primary field, last month became the sixth candidate to add her pronoun, which corresponds to her birth sex, on her social media.

"Every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, and that starts with using correct pronouns. I'm Elizabeth. My pronouns are she/her/hers," she wrote on Twitter.

Candidate Pete Buttigieg, who is gay, has specified that he is a "he/him" and heterosexual candidates Julian Castro, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris and Tom Steyer have also indicated their pronouns.

Surreal. The fluffy US/anglo world's getting more insane by the day. Say what you want about good old europe but they haven't quite reached this level of nonsense yet. Continental euros have more mature, less prudish societies where sexuality, identity etc have been discussed out in the open for decades (esp in western/northern europe).

Euro pollies know that a "hi I'm Liz/Bill & my pronouns are she/he/his/her/hers' comment would be equiv to political suicide. Just sounds very immature, fake/strategic, childish and hypocritical to me. Reeks of political opportunism.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The 23-year-old represents a growing trend among progressive Americans

Progressive? I disagree.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Just give everyone ranks like in the military. Then you can address them as Pvt so-and-so, or Sgt what’s-his-face, etc without assigning gender. Ranks will be assigned according to social status. Menial laborers will rank from Pvt to Cpl, managerial positions and STEM field workers Sgt to Msgt, and CEOs will fill the officer ranks.

Wait.... that sounds too much like.... never mind...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

When I make such an effort to look that way and people call me 'ma'am' or hold the door it makes me angry," Cross said.

Well, her name is Cross. She obviously identifies more with her surname than she does her birth gender.

goldorak:

Great post, sport. Anglosphere fluffy, continental Europe mature. Sounds about right to me.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I will do my best to respect others and I expect the same. Please call me sir. Also if I do not automatically know which gender or lifestyle you identify with, that is not a free pass to start screaming at me and calling me a homophobe, racist, misogynist, etc.

This.

Anyone who announces their pronouns before you've even had a chance to say hello to them should be avoided at all costs.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I’m sure these people are just having the biggest laugh in history.....

They can’t really be serious can they?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Human DNA has 23 sets of chromosomes i. The 23rd set is the sex chromosome.. You either have an XY if you are male, or XX if your a female.

And the other ones are not human ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system#Humans

(obviously there is also trisomy)

And for people which do not know : the gender people are assigned are birth is not related to ones genetics. There is no genetics test, nor hormones'one, neither anything which can not be done by a 5 y.o. The doctor take the baby out, look if there is a weeny hanging around if yes it is a boy if not it is a girl. Nothing more scientific than that as long as the doctor (or the like) have no doubt. There is also the version with prenatal viewing.

So well for the validity of sex assignment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

I do not get why people are getting upset. How is it a big deal to have to make sure of how to talk about someone at the same time you ask for their name ?

After, I am not so found of "they" as the plural meaning give a strange after taste but well if they found it more convenient of some merged version of "she/he" &co or of "one", it is like that, not going to fret over it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

the gender people are assigned are birth

People do persist in sharing this myth. No one is assigned a gender a birth, their sex is noted. Gender and sex are two different things. One is a biological fact, the other a social construct.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Gender dysphoria is real. Gender is not binary. Transgender people, genderqueer people, and non-binary people deserve respect, and that includes using the pronoun that they ask you to use.

Using the wrong pronoun on purpose is you being obtuse and rude. Why you think being intentionally rude and obtuse to people is not only acceptable, but your "right", only shows exactly where your moral ground lies.

That said, it's not possible to know how a random stranger identifies, and if someone uses the wrong pronoun in error, this is not something that should cause a mental breakdown. If it is causing you a mental breakdown, then it sounds like you aren't yet stable in your identity. There are people who can help, and I highly recommend seeking out that help. It's better to seek help than get upset on a near-daily basis. A good therapist can help you manage your stress and find coping mechanisms. I'm sorry the world is so insensitive to you; awareness is growing, and with time people will become better at recognizing you. Until then, take care of yourself. xo

If you are a cishet person who gets offended when a genderqueer, non-binary, or transgender person is upset by your using the wrong pronoun accidentally, then you need to learn empathy. Those people are going through a very tough time, and they don't need you to make it worse. Just apologize, and move on. There is no need to harbor resentment towards a group of people who have experienced enough trauma in their lives for ten people.

Remember - if you have never had your very humanity called into question, if you have never been harassed for how you look, if you have never had people continually yelling abuse at you just for being you, if you grew up feeling safe and secure in your gender identity, then you are privileged. You will never have to go through what GLBTQIA, non-binary, genderqueer, and other people have had to endure every single day of their lives.

Realize that this isn't about you. Grow up, learn some empathy, and don't be so mean and so obtuse.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

RecklessNov. 19 02:52 pm JST

That is pretty funny. If someone held the door for me I would be pleased, and if they said ma'am I would be amused as I am a balding male. But I would not be angry....

That's because you have not spent your life unsure of your identity and feeling you don't belong. You haven't experienced daily harassment, catcalls, abuse, and trauma that comes with being different from other people.

... because I don't have a 50 pound chip on my shoulder about every little slight.

Actually, sir, you do seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder, but your chip is from being a privileged male who gets resentful when he is asked to change the way he speaks. I don't know why you have this chip, and that is not for me to speculate on, but it absolutely is there, or else you would not be so ... dare I say ... offended by people who are doing nothing more than asking you to use the right pronoun.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Strangerland, here is a good one for you - I agree with most of what you are writing here. :)

I have also come across the faction of people who want all gendered language to be completely erased, and I find those people as silly as you do. But remember, that is a small faction of people. The majority of trans, genderqueer, and non-binary people are not reactionaries hell bent on forcing gender-neutrality on every person no matter if they do identify with the binary. Most of them are quite chill and don't get upset if you accidentally misgender them, particularly older people who have had enough time and life experience that they take most things in stride. It's often younger people, who like all young people everywhere, are still unsure of themselves and their place in this world, who can get kind of snippy sometimes out of insecurity. I see that a lot with babydykes and young gay guys who love to announce themselves, while the rest of us old queers sit over in the corner smiling and remembering when we were like them, too.

Personally, I like to see some fire in young people. It shakes things up and is badly needed.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Transgender people, genderqueer people, and non-binary people deserve respect, and that includes using the pronoun that they ask you to use.

you need to learn empathy.

Just apologize

Realize that this isn't about you

Grow up, learn some empathy, and don't be so mean and so obtuse.

Lots of demands.

you are privileged

your chip is from being a privileged male who gets resentful when he is asked to change the way he speaks

And assumptions.

Yet you're lecturing people on the dos and don'ts of communication.

Very interesting.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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