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Is Pope Francis anti-American?

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In the US where society differentiates against those with the least (money) in favor of those with the most; I would say the Pope has a valid arguement......

11 ( +13 / -2 )

The better question: Is the US political-economic system anti-Christian? The answer, considering the designed inequality, racism, use of military and spending on weapons of mass destruction, incarceration of the weak and poor, ect... is clearly YES.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

The better question: Is the US political-economic system anti-Christian? The answer, considering the designed inequality, racism, use of military and spending on weapons of mass destruction, incarceration of the weak and poor, ect... is clearly YES.

complete and utter BS.

-14 ( +4 / -19 )

Few organizations in history have loved money more than the church, and not many organizations are as rich. The church has sold salvation to it's followers for centuries, collected tithes and inheritances, and amassed incredible wealth in the process.

But in recent years membership in the church has been declining, and so have the church's revenues. Francis is trying to increase membership by making the church more friendly to those it considered anti-Christian in the past, not for the sake of salvation, but for the sake of the money these new members will tithe to the church.

Generally speaking, the religious are often very hypocritical, they don't practice what they preach. And Francis and his church are much the same. Money and riches are evil and corrupting, so give them to the church (where money and riches are all the more corrupting). They say that it is as difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven as it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, but in the original language, the word was "window", not "needle", and camels do indeed get through windows.

Francis is the very thing he is preaching against, and using the same divisive rhetoric politicians have used for decades.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Well said, warispeace, but let's refine it a bit.

A huge characteristic of the Protestant strains of Christianity most popular in the US is sola scriptura, which says the scriptures are the ultimate authority on Christian doctrine- God spoke through the prophets and the disciples and the writers of the Bible so that each word of the text is the Word of God. Americans added to this doctrine the notion that the Word of the Bible is the Word in English, as interpreted through a modern lay reader. You don't need to understand the historical context of the people who wrote the Bible, you don't need to learn or even research the languages these texts were originally written in. For example if your modern notion of "sin" is "wickedness" then it doesn't matter if the original meaning as used in the early parts of the Old Testament was closer to "ritual impurity", then your interpretation is what God meant it to be. Interpretation of the text also doesn't require taking the text as a whole. Americans have largely abandoned the notion that The Bible is partly inspirational psuedo-history, legend, hymn, and metaphor, and have latched on the notion that the whole of the Bible is a literal instruction manual for living modern life. So even if the text is a line of dialogue between say, Moses and the Pharaoh, if you decide that line resonates with what you want to be God's word, you can just decide it's God's law for you. Which is how American Christians can twist the words of the guy who said "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven" until a TV preacher can call on his congregation to buy him a private jet and if you don't like that, you're a hater who is gonna hate.

So what I'd say is not that the US is not anti-Christian, but Americans have invented a theology that's really only maybe 50 years old and serves what they want to be true in the now, and that the Pope, having all the historical resources of the Catholic Church at his disposal, is able to have a much broader perspective.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

"—but are conservatives right in fearing Pope Francis is anti-American at heart?"

Conservatives, if that is even a thing any more, are afraid of any mirror to their faults.

P Fran has issued concern over wealth, the environment and the suffering of war victims of the Middle East.

Why shouldn't the 'Conservative', or gop-tea be afraid? When everything you do is called out by the Pope as morally wrong, the automatic response is to blame the messenger.

In this case, Pope Francis is anti-American at heart.

What a clownish bunch of loud mouthed rubes in their first set of long pants dolling evangelical as they relish their wealth from wars. Sickening. Sock it to 'em P Fran.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

He will also have his work cut out in wooing disaffected U.S. bishops, many of whom complain he has not given them enough support against the Obama administration over abortion, contraception and gay marriage.

Again the "conservative" banner unfurls. "Holy Father why haven't you helped instill religion into the laws of the States?" Perhaps the Pope is more aware of the U.S. Constitution than his U.S. bishops.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

He is the first "openly" Jesuit Pope.

http://www.reformation.org/jesuit-papal-assassins.html

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Anti-American? No.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The jaw-dropping hypocrisy of the US Christian right is there for all to see but the Catholic Church gives it a decent run for its money in the hypocrisy stakes. This man talks a good game and is lauded for it but I've yet to see what he's actually done.

Jesus despised hypocrisy and if he were around today, he'd have no time for either.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

It's funny how many people get upset when the Pope starts acting like a Christian.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

I agree with the pope about unbridled capitalism and consumerism. I am guilty myself. Many countries and individuals share the blame. I hope he keeps preaching his message. God bless him.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

'It's funny how many people get upset when the Pope starts acting like a Christian.'

When did he start acting like one? What did he do? He certainly speaks of how greed and violence are antithetical to the message of Jesus but that's about it.

Didn't his son of God tell him to 'give all you have to the poor'? The US right take this to mean screw the lazy sods into the ground while making the rich richer so I suppose he's closer to Jesus on that count.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@Mocheake

I agree with the pope about unbridled capitalism and consumerism.

If you want to see unbridled greed I suggest you visit the Vatican museum. The Louvre and the National have huge displays of items taken from conquered lands and peoples, but the one in Rome, though smaller, rivals their collections in many ways. How much money could be donated to help the poor by selling off parts of the collection? How much do you think the regalia he and his subordinates wear is worth? His preaching that we all should be good and do good things is nice, but I can't separate him from the historic actions of the institution he represents.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

As a church going Catholic I respect Pope Francis although In some areas he has gone too far. Condemning the greed of the wealthy is not something I object to though. I think the church could look at contraception in particular. Whilst I've never used it in my years of marriage, I don't have a problem with married Catholics using contraception if they have had 3 or more children and can't afford any more.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Pope Francis is concerned about the WORLD, whether he is pro or anti american is irrelevant.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I don't know or think the Pope is Anti-American. Although I do know for a fact he is Anti-Border anywhere in the world. Really he makes me sick.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The pontiff’s attacks on those who worship the “God of money”

Oh yeah, pretty rich (boom tish) coming from the figurehead of one of the wealthiest organisations in the world. They own countless properties around the globe, pay no tax, charge followers for 'a place in heaven' - I could go on. In Australia the Church often sell extremely valuable slabs of land to developers! At the end of the day, it's run like a business.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I'm sure he's anti-whatever conservatives think America is. You know, all those wonderful all-American virtues like oil companies wrecking everything, and white people screaming that there's warfare being waged against them (while also yelling about other people's "entitlements" and claiming there's no such thing as racism unless, of course, it's directed at them) and cops shooting black kids and everyone hating poor people simply for being poor. All that Calvinist "American Exceptionalism/We Are God's Elected To Do As We Please" stuff where the white middle class think they have to kiss up to the Koch Brothers.

I kind of have an idea he's anti all of that.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

He is the self-declared foe of unbridled capitalism considering how much wealth the Vatican has at its disposal I find this slightly hypocritical

1 ( +5 / -4 )

a savage financial system, an economy that kills, an idolatry of money

very accurate definition.

1 ( +4 / -2 )

Pope Francis anti-American? This is utterly ridiculous.

3 ( +4 / -2 )

Ridiculous title.

2 ( +3 / -2 )

@katsu78

So what I'd say is not that the US is not anti-Christian, but Americans have invented a theology that's really only maybe 50 years old and serves what they want to be true in the now, and that the Pope, having all the historical resources of the Catholic Church at his disposal, is able to have a much broader perspective.

Well said.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The GOP had a good schtick going for awhile about how their positions were always organically American, and any contrary position was somehow foreign. It worked quite well for a while, but its efficacy is wearing not only due to the disastrous results of GOP economic and foreign policies but also as the concept of the American fabric finally catches up to reality.

As such, a better question would be is the Vatican finally turning against the GOP and finally embracing America?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

......you don't need to be the Pope to see the world wide economy is headed major trouble with the huge disparity of wealth happening, should be very obvious to all. The super rich are killing the golden goose, that's consumers, we are headed in a race to the bottom with the majorities wages in decline & a few connected folks wracking in truly obscene wealth.

And yeah the Vatican is one to talk, they have stock piled plenty of cash from their flocks over the years, & a lot of the thinking from their is quite dates to say the least, I would say the current Pope seems to have a pretty good head on his shoulders, we could have much worse

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Experts say the pontiff will undoubtedly praise the Stars and Stripes for its history as a land of freedom—but will not hesitate to confront the current ultra-conservative, xenophobic and often religious right wing.

As a proud American and Irish-Catholic with "roots" in all three cities the Pope will visit, as well as being a big fan of Pope Francis, I wear a purple wrist band that simply says "Who am I to judge", I hope he does EXACTLY what the comment above states. I am sick and tired, and frankly embarrassed as a Christian, of hearing the religious right tell me that God wants me to be hateful of immigrants/minorities, pro-guns, anti-gay, etc. More power to him.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If the church is so rich, why is every church I've come across in tremendous amounts of debt except for a select few? Less than one third of those that attend give anything at all financially. And if they do, it's usually less than $5.

If they sold all their assets, guess what, no more record of history for safear keeping. Who is going to buy that crap anyways? If they sold all their orphanages and churches and other buildings, you'll still have poor people except now, no one will be able to help them. You know, all those convents where they intentionally live to be poor. It's also a well known fact that the Catholic Church is the most charitable organization in the world. Even secular sources will affirm that. They give substantially more than everyone else, especially those that complain that the church is rich, and they aren't. Let's face it, if you were rich, you wouldnt complain about how rich the church is.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@jerseyboy

I don't want to sound nasty here but the man you are gushing about hasn't changed the stance on contraception which sees many dead and often sees dependents thrown into abject poverty.

This issue keeps coming up and so it should. How could he sleep with this on his mind? I give him the credit of being more thoughtful and intelligent than the knuckle-draggers believing in Noah's Ark.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In pope Francis' church, abortion, contraception, and divorce are not permitted

Pope Francis on abortion: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/01/europe/pope-francis-abortion/

Pope Francis on divorce: http://www.religionnews.com/2015/08/05/pope-francis-says-the-church-must-welcome-divorced-and-remarried-catholics/

Doesn't sound like divorce and abortion are not permitted so much as just frowned upon.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The better question: Is the US political-economic system anti-Christian?

Jesus talked about generosity on an individual level. The problem with liberals citing Christianity to support wealth redistribution is that it isn't redistribution from one individual to another, done out of free will, but redistribution decided by a small political elite, transferring large sums of money from one segment of the population to another. And unlike on an individual level where nothing can compel you involuntarily, your wealth is seized at gunpoint if you refuse to comply. Just like corporations aren't people, neither are governments. Citing Jesus's teachings on matters of government policy is flawed at best.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Citing Jesus's teachings on matters of government policy is flawed at best.

He threw the "money changers" out of the temple and whipped them. -Some say it was more about selling animals for passover sacrifice. (Essenes are vegetarian). Either way he was direct and to the point politically especially in regards to the church.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

He threw the "money changers" out of the temple and whipped them. -Some say it was more about selling animals for passover sacrifice. (Essenes are vegetarian). Either way he was direct and to the point politically especially in regards to the church.

On the church, yes, but he didn't necessarily advocate government policy.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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