Here
and
Now

opinions

Jim Crow tactics reborn in Texas abortion law

29 Comments
By Stefanie Lindquist

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© The Conversation

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

29 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

Since the lawsuits permitted by this new Texas statute are civil and not criminal, normal civil law would exclude plaintiffs by third parties to an act for lack of standing to sue. To have standing in a civil suit the plaintiff must show two things. First they must show evidence of direct material or financial loss and second they must show the remedy they seek will prevent future direct loss. I see no way in which a suit filed under the terms of the Texas law by an uninvolved third party can claim any kind of direct loss that would give them standing to sue. Prohibiting state or local officers from enforcing the law will also draw questions from judges to the effect of why can an uninvolved third party sue and not the state? It's a weak law written for political purposes. It's authors are not chess players looking three or four moves ahead.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Not sure the comparison to Jim Crow is entirely accurate. Stupid law and dumb issue to prosecute. Anyone with standing can normally bring a case - this just empowers busybodies.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Desert Tortoise,

I'm no legal expert, but as I understand it, showing evidence of loss is the "norm" for civil cases, but it's not a requirement in all cases. Specific legislation can change that requirement. The article below describes two areas of law that allow any individual to bring a claim. One example given is the New Jersey Environmental Rights Act, under which apparently, "any person may commence a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction against any other person alleged to be in violation of any statute, regulation, or ordinance which is designed to prevent or minimize pollution, impairment, or destruction of the environment."

https://law.stanford.edu/2021/09/08/maneuvering-around-the-court-stanfords-civil-procedure-expert-diego-zambrano-on-the-texas-abortion-law/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

“Jim Crow”, eh?

If this law isn’t struck down then a lot of black babies are going to be born. That’s bad, right, because black lives matter or … black lives don’t matter? A really confusing issue, ain’t it?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ditto on not being a legal expert - and you are crazy and wrong if you think that comments on a site such as this should possibly be considered legal advice - but standing - important because it involves the court's own subject matter jurisdiction - can be a somewhat involved analysis for courts to make, because it is determined by constitution and statutes for specific types of cases and controversy. A general rule of standing doesn't always apply to a case such as this one; but if you are still feeling grumpy towards another and particularly litigious in these parts, don't act too surprised if and when you are expected to have to prove to a court early on that you have sustained, or are in immediate danger of sustaining, some direct injury as a result of the wrongful act(s) of which you complain; you have a direct relationship between an alleged injury and the claim(s) sought to be adjudicated; you have a personal stake in the controversy; the challenged action has caused you some injury in fact, be it economic, recreational, environmental, etc.; and/or you are the appropriate party to assert the public’s interest in the matter, as well as your own interest.

Always best to consult with an experienced licensed attorney or solicitor in the specific location where you have been harmed, before you rush to court. If you lose, you are the one that may have to pay.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If this law isn’t struck down then a lot of black babies are going to be born. That’s bad, right, because black lives matter or … black lives don’t matter? A really confusing issue, ain’t it?

Yeah black lives matter, thats why they want the right to terminate them.

The left in America are not ones for logic.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The new Texas law that bans most abortions uses a method employed by Texas and other states to enforce racist Jim Crow laws in the 19th and 20th centuries that aimed to disenfranchise African Americans.

How? Suggestion, how about practicing safe and protective sex, that'll help with limiting the abortion rate.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

How? Suggestion, how about practicing safe and protective sex, that'll help with limiting the abortion rate.

How does that work with rape and incest?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

How does that work with rape and incest?

The overwhelming majority of abortions are not performed primarily out of rape or incest

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk

How does that work with rape and incest?

The overwhelming majority of abortions are not performed primarily out of rape or incest

You do not answer the question. All abortions in Texas including rape and incest, so you are just going to ignore them because they might but less than other types. But you can't produce any figure for how many women are raped or female incests.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

You do not answer the question. All abortions in Texas including rape and incest, so you are just going to ignore them because they might but less than other types. But you can't produce any figure for how many women are raped or female incests.

I’m not buying that, you can tell someone and they might believe you, but the numbers don’t add up. I knew a few women that had an abortion and the reasons weren’t rape or incest. So I’m saying if women or a couple are more sexually responsible abortion cases can be significantly cut, that was my point. If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk

I’m not buying that, you can tell someone and they might believe you, but the numbers don’t add up. I knew a few women that had an abortion and the reasons weren’t rape or incest. So I’m saying if women or a couple are more sexually responsible abortion cases can be significantly cut, that was my point. If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex.

Because you do not know anyone personally who was raped and became pregnant, or a victim of incest, then it does not happen.

You can not answer the question because you do not have answer.

What about victims of rape and incest?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Because you do not know anyone personally who was raped and became pregnant,

Now how would you know that? You have no clue as to who I know or don’t. Don’t even start that nonsense!

You can not answer the question

I already answer your question. Take a deep breath, calm down and read it slowly.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

In a 2019 study, the Texas Department of Safety reported more than 14,000 rapes. But 90% of Texas rapes are not reported.

Children born from incest have problems too.

"Other side effects of an incestuous relationship include an increased risk of infertility, miscarriage, cleft palates, heart conditions, facial asymmetry, low birth weight, slow growth rate and neonatal mortality. "Even if there's not always a mutation, inbreeding brings up a lot of problems involving recessive traits."

5 ( +6 / -1 )

bass4funk

I already answer your question. Take a deep breath, calm down and read it slowly.

Except you did not.

You stated,

"If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex."

So how does a victim of rape or incest have an abortion? How does a rape or incest victim practice safe sex?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

In a 2019 study, the Texas Department of Safety reported more than 14,000 rapes. But 90% of Texas rapes are not reported.

Ok

Children born from incest have problems too.

I think so

"Other side effects of an incestuous relationship include an increased risk of infertility, miscarriage, cleft palates, heart conditions, facial asymmetry, low birth weight, slow growth rate and neonatal mortality. "Even if there's not always a mutation, inbreeding brings up a lot of problems involving recessive traits."

Again, that has nothing to do with what I was talking about as far as being responsible when having sex

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

You stated,

I did

"If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex."

There you go.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I did

What warped world do you live in, where a woman being raped can practice 'safe and reponsible sex'?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

What warped world do you live in, where a woman being raped can practice 'safe and reponsible sex'?

I’m starting to think liberals are more emotional than rational. That’s not what I said or implied, now I’ll say to you the same thing. Go back, take your time and read what I said, slowly please

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex.

I went back, and read slowly. And this is what you wrote.

So I'll ask again, slowly. How do women being raped practice the safe and responsible sex that you demand of them?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funk

"If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point,

But it isn't. Because this law will seriously affect whether she can get an abortion.

other than that, practice safer and responsible sex."

Yeah, I agree they should. But if they don't and the woman accidentally gets pregnant, she has a constitutional right to get an abortion. And the overwhelming majority of Americans agree on this.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

any person may commence a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction against any other person alleged to be in violation of any statute, regulation, or ordinance which is designed to prevent or minimize pollution, impairment, or destruction of the environment."

There is still a link to the plaintiff suffering loss due to environmental degradation. I'll spare you the graduate seminar in environmental economics but become familiar with "negative externalities" and you understand how polluting producers are passing part of the cost of producing their goods off to others who are not buying their product in the form of degraded air, water and soil that harms them directly.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I went back, and read slowly. And this is what you wrote.

This is what I wrote and I was specific.

If a woman is raped or by incest then it’s up to the woman at that point, other than that, practice safer and responsible sex.

Stop cherry picking and focus on this text exactly.

But it isn't. Because this law will seriously affect whether she can get an abortion.

Then go to a different state and have the procedure performed if it has to be done.

Yeah, I agree they should. But if they don't and the woman accidentally gets pregnant, she has a constitutional right to get an abortion. And the overwhelming majority of Americans agree on this

as the overwhelming Americans also agree with the right to the child’s life should be preserved as well. The law was created by Texans that overwhelming support the right to life.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If a rape victim decides not to have an abortion many states grant the rapist father the same parental rights as a non-rapist. That means the rapist and his parents, since in many states grandparents are also able to assert a degree of parental right, can assert themselves into the victims life pretty much for the rest of her life. Also some sobering statistics from the CDC elaborated on further in the study in the link below by Duke University School of Law. "The CDC reported that 60.4 percent of female victims were raped before the age of eighteen; 25.5 percent were raped before the age of twelve; and 34.9 percent were raped between the ages of 12– 17. A 2005 survey found that 10.8 percent of girls from grades 9–12 were forced to have sexual intercourse at some time in their lives"

Here is the link to the study.

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1229&context=djglp

1 ( +1 / -0 )

More sobering facts from the Duke Law study I cited above:

Women do become pregnant as a result of rape. A 1992 study conducted by the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Medical University of South Carolina found that the national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5 percent per rape among victims of reproductive age (age 12–45). The study found that, a*mong thirty-four cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority of rape-related pregnancies occurred among adolescents and were caused by a perpetrator the victim knew. *Only 11.7 percent of the victims received immediate medical attention after the rape, and 47.1 percent received no medical attention related to the rape. Of the women who became pregnant as a result of the rape, 32.2 percent opted to keep the child, 50 percent had an abortion, 5.9 percent placed the child for adoption, and 11.8 percent had a spontaneous abortion. The study also found that **32.4 percent of victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had entered their second trimester. The researchers concluded that“[r]ape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency.” It is estimate that there are about 25,000 rape-related pregnancies in the U.S. each year.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

bass4funk

Then go to a different state and have the procedure performed if it has to be done.

So a rape or incest victim can not have an abortion in Texas.

What about women and females unable to travel to another state?

How about a pregnant woman whose pregnancy threatens the life of the woman? How about women who take taken precautions to avoid pregnancy but become pregnant anyway?

Majority of Americans against overturning Roe v. Wade Only 13% oppose it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Texans covid vaccinations and wearing masks "My body My choice".

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So a rape or incest victim can not have an abortion in Texas.

I answered that question already.

What about women and females unable to travel to another state?

There is always a way.

How about a pregnant woman whose pregnancy threatens the life of the woman?

That would for the family to decide.

How about women who take taken precautions to avoid pregnancy but become pregnant anyway?

I seriously doubt it, perhaps in the most extreme cases

Majority of Americans against overturning Roe v. Wade Only 13% oppose it.

I don’t believe that.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/new-poll-most-americans-support-abortion-restrictions/

While Americans who call themselves pro-choice (53 percent) outnumber those who describe themselves as pro-life (43 percent), most Americans believe that abortion should be limited to the first three months of pregnancy, if it’s permitted at all. A slim majority of respondents said abortion either shouldn’t be permitted at all or should be legal only in cases where a mother’s life is in danger or when she has been the victim of rape or incest.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites