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Most school shooters get their guns from home

45 Comments
By Patrick Carter, Marc A Zimmerman and Rebeccah Sokol

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That the teenager used a weapon from home during the Nov 30 attack is not unusual. Most school shooters obtain the firearm from home. And the number of guns within reach of high school-age teenagers has increased during the pandemic – highlighting the importance of locking firearms and keeping them unloaded in the home.

Considering there were about 24 school shootings in the US in 2020, looking at the number of schools in the states, and the number of teenagers, that is an extremely small number to fret over.

I would be more concerned about teenagers using motor vehicles from their homes---the number of accidents and deaths caused by that is in the thousands.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Considering there were about 24 school shootings in the US in 2020, looking at the number of schools in the states, and the number of teenagers, that is an extremely small number to fret over.

I would be more concerned about teenagers using motor vehicles from their homes---the number of accidents and deaths caused by that is in the thousands.

Schools should be a safe place for everybody. 24 is not an insignificant number when talking about school shootings.

This year has seen a record number of gun sales and a record number of school shootings. A trend that has continued for several years.

Making it a choice between gun safety and car safety is disingenuous. Any responsible parent or society should be following both.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Bob FosseToday  08:05 am JST

Schools should be a safe place for everybody. 24 is not an insignificant number when talking about school shootings.

Agreed, but I would feel safer in basically any school in the US than I would on a street in Chicago.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Agreed, but I would feel safer in basically any school in the US than I would on a street in Chicago.

Parents want to send their kids to school, not wander around the streets of Chicago.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Bob FosseToday  08:57 am JST

Parents want to send their kids to school, not wander around the streets of Chicago.

Seems some parents want their children to walk to school, go meet friends, do some shopping in Chicago, with the result over 100 of them were shot and killed this year.

777 total homicides this year in Chicago.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

777 total homicides this year in Chicago.

What does this have to do with school shootings? Is Baldwin involved again?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Bob FosseToday  09:22 am JST

What does this have to do with school shootings? Is Baldwin involved again?

Oh, teens getting shot in a school is different than teens getting shot in the street?

It's called putting a number into perspective so that everyone doesn't get hysterical over a statistically small number.

Speaking of schools and Baldwin, got schooled on that one din't ya, after you realized you mis-read--twice!

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Next time there is an article on the murder rate in Chicago, take a big sip of coffee, you’re up.

In the meantime. Any thoughts about how guns can be kept out of schools?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Bob FosseToday  09:46 am JST

Next time there is an article on the murder rate in Chicago, take a big sip of coffee, you’re up.

Kind of recent, big news in the US:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/cook-county-surpasses-1000-homicides-for-first-time-since-1994/ar-AARjjuj#:~:text=The%20record%20for%20Cook%20County%20is%201%2C229%20homicides,this%20year%2C%20according%20to%20the%20medical%20examiner’s%20office.

In the meantime. Any thoughts about how guns can be kept out of schools?

Not really, other than metal detectors, and inspections before entering.

Obviously no one else has come up with a solution.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Kind of recent, big news in the US:

Again, not relevant to this story.

Obviously no one else has come up with a solution.

Plenty have been suggested but some people would rather talk about squirrels.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

A priority must be keeping guns out of schools and out of the hands of teenagers. Sandy Hook happened in 2012, 9 years ago and not much has changed since then.

How many school children shot and killed since Sandy Hook. Easy, too many.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@RegBilk

"Considering there were about 24 school shootings in the US in 2020, looking at the number of schools in the states, and the number of teenagers, that is an extremely small number to fret over."

Considering the number of school shootings outside the U.S.A. in 2020, I would say that is an extremely high number to fret over.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Parents said they were largely motivated to make firearms easier to access by fear and a need for greater protection.

Why, for heaven's sake??

Does covid infection turn normal Americans into blood-crazed loonies who attack other Americans and need to be shot?

it would be premature to speculate on any motive or on how the shooter obtained access to the firearm recently purchased by his father.

According to the BBC, he 'obtained access to the firearm' because he was with his father when the gun was bought for him as a Christmas present. He bragged about it on SNS, calling it 'my new beauty', and it was kept in an unlocked drawer in the family home, 'freely available' for his use.

Invalid CSRF

6 ( +6 / -0 )

None of my American family owns a gun.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

A priority must be keeping guns out of schools and out of the hands of teenagers

you mean like prohibiting under 18 year olds from owning handguns and making schools gun free zones? got those.

I would say safe storage laws, and charging parents for crimes committed with their gun.

how about you?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Hello Kitty 321Today  03:20 pm JST

Considering the number of school shootings outside the U.S.A. in 2020, I would say that is an extremely high number to fret over.

It is of course a problem, and considering there are more than 60 million students in the US, there is a lot of work to be done.

Of course, when you consider the odds, one has a higher chance of being struck by lightening, so while these shootings are a horrible tragedy, putting everything into perspective, there are many other preventable deaths of teens that have more viable solutions.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Of course, when you consider the odds, one has a higher chance of being struck by lightening, so while these shootings are a horrible tragedy, putting everything into perspective, there are many other preventable deaths of teens that have more viable solutions.

But that’s not statistically true.

How many people are struck by lightning in the US each year? Take a guess and round it down.

The odds of dying in a mass shooting are far higher than being struck by lightning.

Check it out.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Bob FosseToday  11:08 pm JST

But that’s not statistically true. 

How many people are struck by lightning in the US each year? Take a guess and round it down. 

The odds of dying in a mass shooting are far higher than being struck by lightning. 

Check it out.

I did check it out. Mass school shootings resulted in about 24 victims last year. About 2000 people are killed worldwide by lightning each year.

Including kindergarten, people spend 14 years in school.

So, if that person lives to be 80 years old, that is 66 years not in school.

The risk of getting hit by lightning lasts a lifetime, or in case of my example, the full 80 years.

The odds statistically are higher of getting hit by lightning than by getting killed in a mass school shooting.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Children do not go to school to be shot.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

zichiToday  11:38 pm JST

Children do not go to school to be shot.

Nope, but thanks to the gun nutters, they have to worry about it.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Americans seem easily scared. Somebody hijacks a plane, they buy lots of guns. Toilet rolls in short supply, they buy lots of guns. A virus going around, they buy lots of guns.

Lots of people get shot as a result. I blame Clint Eastwood, they all want to be like him.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The shooting at school of a single child is already one too many.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Why, for heaven's sake??

Does covid infection turn normal Americans into blood-crazed loonies who attack other Americans and need to be shot?

Generalizing again?

According to the BBC,

Here we go.....

he 'obtained access to the firearm' because he was with his father when the gun was bought for him as a Christmas present. He bragged about it on SNS, calling it 'my new beauty', and it was kept in an unlocked drawer in the family home, 'freely available' for his use.

Well, if the kid was able to get his parent's firearm that is 100% the parent's fault. I grew up with guns, y grandparents owned them, my parents and we were raised around them and they always had their guns locked and I do the same with my kids, they can't touch or use a gun when I or their mother is not present.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Generalizing again?

No, just extrapolating from the info given in the article.

Since the onset of the public health crisis, firearm sales have spiked.

How does a virus create a need/desire for more guns?

if the kid was able to get his parent's firearm….

It was his gun. His my new beauty.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I did check it out. Mass school shootings resulted in about 24 victims last year. About 2000 people are killed worldwide by lightning each year.

The problem with your analysis is that you are have different numbers in the denominator when comparing death rates. If you want to compare the frequency of school shooting deaths to those from lightning, the comparison has to be against the same population. In your case you are saying school shooting death rate in the US compared to lightning caused deaths world wide. The comparison has to be to lightning deaths in the US. For the US, there were 17 lightning deaths in 2020 and the ten year annual average is 26.

https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-fatalities20

School shooting deaths per year in the US are shown in the following link. Note that more adult staff are killed than students but the total killed exceeds deaths from lightning.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a01

5 ( +5 / -0 )

This link shows the number of shooting incidents per year from 1970-2020.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971473/number-k-12-school-shootings-us/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Desert TortoiseToday  03:47 am JST

The problem with your analysis is that you are have different numbers in the denominator when comparing death rates. If you want to compare the frequency of school shooting deaths to those from lightning, the comparison has to be against the same population. In your case you are saying school shooting death rate in the US compared to lightning caused deaths world wide. The comparison has to be to lightning deaths in the US. For the US, there were 17 lightning deaths in 2020 and the ten year annual average is 26.

No, the problem is with your analysis. I said "one has a higher chance of being struck by lightening,"

Take you for example; you are one. Are you in school? No. You are somewhere in the world. What is more likely--you are involved in a school shooting, or you get hit by lightning?

Easy when you think about it like that.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Blame the gun.

Pointing the finger at the wrong thing to fix any problem won't fix the problem.

We had houses full of guns in Australia in the 70s including ours and nobody felt the need to run out and start shooting every one.

We had kitchen drawers full of sharp knife's and never went anywhere to stab people.

This is a personal problem not a gun or knife's problem.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No, the problem is with your analysis. I said "one has a higher chance of being struck by lightening,"

And desert tortoise proved you wrong, by showing where you used faulty logic with your numbers.

Although to be fair, the number of school shooting deaths in the US could be considered to be the number of school shooting deaths worldwide, as they pretty much all happen in the US. But it would be a pretty deceptive comparison, that while technically accurate, would also be meaningless.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bassfunk

Well, if the kid was able to get his parent's firearm that is 100% the parent's fault. I grew up with guns, y grandparents owned them, my parents and we were raised around them and they always had their guns locked and I do the same with my kids, they can't touch or use a gun when I or their mother is not present.

Do you have guns in Japan?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good for You @Strangerland 5:18am: You’ve been trying to sneak that ONE, SAME set of anti-American comments back in, what? at least 4 times, several days in a row, in whatever “gun related” thread you can, obviously looking for the right moderator to overlook it. - Applaud you diligence:

Especially since it's been pointed out already that the overall murder rate in the USA is about the world average.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

While the threat from firearms is real, why is it that the public is prohibited from using bullet proof vests and other means of defense?

Allowing American children to wear Kevlar vests , backpacks, and helmets could save countless lives, as well as provide many jobs manufacturing, marketing, distributing and selling personal protective devices. Government mandates for the use of such items would ensure the safety of our most precious asset, our nation's youth.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

While the threat from firearms is real, why is it that the public is prohibited from using bullet proof vests and other means of defense?

In general, they're not.

"Purchasing and wearing bulletproof vests in the US is not illegal. However, the federal authority has several provisions regarding the purchase and use of body armor that apply to all US states."

www.atomicdefense.com/blogs/news/where-body-armor-legal-and-not-in-us-states

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Robert pearceToday  04:32 am JST

Blame the gun.

Pointing the finger at the wrong thing to fix any problem won't fix the problem. 

We had houses full of guns in Australia in the 70s including ours and nobody felt the need to run out and start shooting every one. 

We had kitchen drawers full of sharp knife's and never went anywhere to stab people. 

This is a personal problem not a gun or knife's problem.

Spot on.

StrangerlandToday  05:29 am JST

And desert tortoise proved you wrong, by showing where you used faulty logic with your numbers.

2000 is greater than 24. Grab a calculator.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

And desert tortoise proved you wrong, by showing where you used faulty logic with your numbers.

“got schooled on that one din't ya”

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Especially since it's been pointed out already that the overall murder rate in the USA is about the world average.

But there are so many more shootings, and the gun lovers have told us that it's not the fault of the guns. So if it's not the guns, then it must be the people. And since America is multi-racial, it must be an issue with American culture. For some reason, Americans are a lot more murderous than other nations. Because it's clearly not a gun problem.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

2000 is greater than 24. Grab a calculator.

Is 2000/1000000 greater than 24/1?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

. For some reason, Americans are a lot more murderous than other nations

does not refute

... the overall murder rate in the USA is about the world average.

Say 'a lot of other nations', or 'most OECD nations', then you'd have a point.

But there are so many more shootings, 

Again, if you say 'shooting deaths as a percentage of murders' you'd have a point.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Again, if you say 'shooting deaths as a percentage of murders' you'd have a point.

But, the gun lovers tell us that the problem isn't guns, because the killers would find other ways to kill. So limiting it to shooting deaths is incorrect, as these people are killers regardless of the tool, they just happen to have randomly decided that they would do it with guns.

But, you seem to be saying that the reason that America has more shooting deaths is NOT because the people are murderous. But that would mean that it's because of the proliferation of guns. Is that what you're saying? Or, if you aren't saying that, then how do you explain so many more shooting deaths in America as compared to other nations?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

But, you seem to be saying that the reason that  America has more shooting deaths is NOT because the people are murderous. But that would mean that it's because of the proliferation of guns. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. When have I denied that America has a gun problem?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When have I denied that America has a gun problem?

Maybe you haven't. Our gun lovers do though, and they have made it clear that it's a problem with Americans being murderers, and not a gun problem. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Maybe you haven't. Our gun lovers do though, and they have made it clear that it's a problem with Americans being murderers, and not a gun problem. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Sure, but Americans are basically as murderous as Greenlanders or Argentinians, for example, if we take average of murders per 100,000 by country. Somewhere around 5.2. And I've always thought it should be, Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and guns are a good way to do it.

Who knows? Perhaps if they limited people's access to guns in the USA, their murder rate would drop. I'm not sure the Oxford shooter would have seen this as an option if he weren't steeped in American gun culture. Pure speculation, though.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bob FosseToday  08:45 am JST

“got schooled on that one din't ya”

Yeh--had to take him to school and teach him the basics.

StrangerlandToday  10:20 am JST

But there are so many more shootings, and the gun lovers have told us that it's not the fault of the guns. So if it's not the guns, then it must be the people. And since America is multi-racial, it must be an issue with American culture. For some reason, Americans are a lot more murderous than other nations. Because it's clearly not a gun problem.

Well, there are many other countries with a higher gun-related murder rate than the US.

But unless people believe guns can kill people without human interaction, then obviously it is the people as you say. That's a basic concept. Same with deaths caused by other means, such as knives, or automobiles---without the people, those won't do any harm on their own, unless you believe in Christine.

And as I mentioned before, most gun-related murder victims fit a specific socioeconomic profile as do the killers. No big secret. You can look at a map of the US and identify where the higher rates of gun-related deaths occur.

So you're right. It is clearly not a gun problem. It is a Democrat problem that tries to take away the instrument used in these crimes rather than punish the criminals.

If suddenly all guns disappeared, would there still be criminals? I'll make it easy---yes.

But if suddenly all criminals disappeared, then there would no murders committed by guns.

Let that sink in. Resist the urge to try and fight it, because you won't come up with a valid counter-argument.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

there are many other countries with a higher gun-related murder rate than the US.

Such as? I’m curious to see the countries you consider to be benchmarks against which to compare America. Are any of them not third world nations?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well, there are many other countries with a higher gun-related murder rate than the US.

Name eight.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

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