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Political rage: America survived a decade of anger in the 18th century – but can it now?

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By Maurizio Valsania

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The US will break up into three countries within a few decades. It may have to be the result of a bloody war, though. It's certainly not impossible. It would be the second Civil War.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Americans have an anger problem.

ya think?

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I am not American, I really enjoy history. I am going to call this the most dangerous anger problem in the world. One that could hold dire political consequences for the rest of it. America has acuminated too much power since the 1940s and a destabilized America due to its political strife will not only encourage nations like Chain and Russia to take greater chances as we been seeing lately. There will probably not be a conflict in the America due to one reason a lone, the the Weapons of Mass destruction in the American Military stokehold.

If a conflict does occur in America and destabilizes the entire foundation of the nation this will be very dangerous. If this destabilization evolves into a mess of territories, rouge nations, even separate unions of nations that fight amongst themselves controlling many nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This will be not only a problem for America but the world. If this destabilizing conflict does occur there will be intervention from other nations, allies, spoils of war, help maintain control, etc or A military dictatorship or an American Military controlled America will more likely ensue to ensure that the weapons of mass destruction will not fall into any of these political hordes ready to destroy themselves with them or destroy other who are not even involved in the conflict. Even an American military controlled America could lead to a very bad situation around the world.

Likely this will not occur however America needs to get its act together before something really dark does ensue.

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Brexit supporters considered the federalism of the EU to be toxic, and it caused them to initiate a breach. The same thing may happen in the US. As Democrat and Republican versions of the American Dream increasingly diverge, the imposed federal control of a President, Supreme Court or Government, each of which will only ever satisfy one half of the nation, may do the same.

The only way to maintain peace in the US may be to separate states upon political lines, giving them more control, removing the imposition of any laws and controls by federal entities.

If this doesn't happen, it may only be a matter of time before one or other half of America takes action against the entities it considers an enemy. Currently that would be Republicans v the President and the Government, Democrats v the Supreme Court.

The United States is no longer united. Simply ignoring this is not going to work.

The inevitable conclusion that the USG may come to, hinted at in the article, is that only a common enemy - a war - will do. So will it be v. China over Taiwan or v. Russia over Ukraine? Or both? I guess time will tell.

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Lines have been drawn during the past five years.

Either you support the Constitution and all it embodies or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support democracy with its various ideas and ideolgies or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support the diversity of America and the equality of all its people or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support tolerance of all religions and beliefs or you support Antichrist Donald Trump.

Either you support democracy and its representative institutions or you support fascist Donald Trump.

Either you support truth, justice and liberty or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support freedom for all or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support upholding the laws for everybody or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support integrity, honor and morality or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support respect for different people or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support decent mature behaviors and attitudes or you support Donald Trump.

Line drawn in the sand. That is what the US has become recently.

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Yes this is all on Trump and his people invaded the Capitol

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Many problems would disappear if people were prepared to accept the reality that not everybody wants to live under the same set of rules and secondly, were more prepared to move to where their ideas are more accepted.

I think America is really fortunate in that you have 50 states to choose from and there is significant flexibility in state rights.

Hardcore pro-life? Plenty of states have liberal laws on abortion

Strong believer in the 2nd amendment? Many states are strong on the right to bear arms. Some arent.

People should be more strongly encouraged to move to where their views are dominant. The federal government should be encouraging it quit honestly.

There is no need to split the country, there is just a need to live and let live and be prepared to move.

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Hardcore pro-life? Plenty of states have liberal laws on abortion

lol oops. "pro choice" rather.

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nishikatToday  12:26 pm JST

Yes this is all on Trump and his people invaded the Capitol

Yes it is. All the partisan differences and such went out the window that ugly Jan. 6. Traitors like him have no regard at all for anything at all but themselves. Those traitor scum were going to hang the GOP VP, and kill everyone in the Capitol. This is not a partisan matter or political. It's a moral issue, it's about fascism and treason. It's about a Putsch.

Donald J Trump is the worst, most corrupt and the most violent and neglegent and arrogant traitor in all of US history.

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Anger is the national sport in America, it is going to be impossible to let it go if everything tells the public they should be angry against everything. The trump presidency made it clear that too much of the people have been lost to the toxic culture.

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@ Matt Hartwell:

I would have thought that if you encouraged people to move to those states where everyone agreed with each other, and the people in those states saw everything differently from people in the other states, then you would in effect be splitting the country into (in America’s case) armed camps.

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"starpunkToday  11:10 am JST

Lines have been drawn during the past five years.

Either you support the Constitution and all it embodies or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support democracy with its various ideas and ideolgies or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support the diversity of America and the equality of all its people or you support Donald Trump.

Either you support tolerance of all religions and beliefs or you support Antichrist Donald Trump...."

This is not a political argument; this is a set of quasi-religious tenets, none based in reality.

And it doesn't make sense. "Tolerance of all religions..."? Are those on the left "tolerant" of people who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman and that destroying life in the womb is a great evil? Of course not!

starpunkToday unknowingly illustrates the crisis of polarization: either-or. Most all of my American friends are "liberal" or leftist. I do not regard them as evil. Terribly misguided? Yes...Do I compulsively raise my right arm in a salute when I hear Donald Trump's name? No. For all the shenanigans of the Establishment left, he alienated a lot of soccer moms and lost. America lost a lot more as a result.

I do not live in America--and do not wish to. But I continue believe that, for all their self-indulgence and fickleness, Americans are, as a whole, imbued with common sense and that the current madness will pass. They will look back at "the woke" and laugh, even as they shudder.

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Trump is a cult leader and he has 70 million + followers

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Yeah I don’t think Americans are any angrier than any other people. They just have easier access to firearms. Whereas a drunken argument with an Scotsman might end in a fistfight, a drunken argument with an American could very well end in a shooting.

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Hopefully not.

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I would have thought that if you encouraged people to move to those states where everyone agreed with each other, and the people in those states saw everything differently from people in the other states, then you would in effect be splitting the country into (in America’s case) armed camps.

Why?

I dont think most Americans see "everything" differently, just a few issues

abortion, gun rights, the role police, woke culture/education, economic inequality and what to do about it, racism and the extent of it.

Those are the top 6 as far as I can tell.

I see no reason why states cant go their own way on aborition, gun rights, police, woke culture/education and to some extent economic inequality (via taxation, social spending etc). The issue if racism I think boils down to whether you think its systematic or not. I think most Repubs are old school liberal in that regard, where as the left wants reperations and thinks the problem is everywhere.

If Roe v Wade is overturned and kicked back to the states, that might be the start of the U.S going back to how was meant to be when state rights were respected rather than being overruled by Washington.

And when the country does have to come together, for the sake of external defense etc, the environment might not be as poisonous as it is right now if people respected each others differences and if people MOVED rather than complaining every day that people dont think like them.

Fundamentally, the problem is Democrats believe in big government and by extension, more federal power and Repubs, at least in theory, dont. The constitution, I think, is more firmly aligned with how Republicans think tbh because I dont believe it was ever intended for the federal government to be involved in peoples lives to the extent that they now are....

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Matt:

Nothing unreasonable in what you say, but your first post seemed to suggest a kind of voluntary separation as the solution when it comes to Americans trying to resolve their differences. I know you’re just thinking out aloud, but really, that’s no solution and your Top 6 list of differences - your “few issues” is actually quite substantial. I don’t know how Americans resolve this ideological schism they find themselves enmeshed in, I’m just glad that in Australia we only have a relatively pale imitation of it. I hope it stays that way.

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Sorry, not pro-Trump. Pro-arming under 18-year-olds with handguns while being very critical of the NRA and American gun-culture and gun-owners. Also, the poster doesn't know the difference between defending yourself from armed attackers and firing into an occupied vehicle because they won't turn their music down.

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gun rights

The problem is guns are brought from easy states like Indiana and smuggled into strict areas like Chicago. Guns just don't grow on trees. Look at strict areas like Hawaii, it's an island and guns don't grow on pineapple trees there. Also, should teens in these easy states be allowed to open carry and CCP just like adults?

Repubs, at least in theory, dont.

That means end government healthcare such as Medicare. Medical care is not a right.

it was ever intended for the federal government to be involved in peoples lives to the extent that they now are....

Such as?

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Also, should teens in these easy states be allowed to open carry and CCP just like adults?

You tell us, because you seem to be unable to make up your mind about it. On the one hand, you're incredibly disparaging of the NRA and gun rights, while on the other, you think kids should be able to carry concealed semi-automatic Glocks. But not Sig Sauers or select-fire/fully automatic handguns for some reason. Semi-auto Glocks only.

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you think kids should be able to carry concealed semi-automatic Glocks.

No, people who are true 2A believers should be for kids carrying semi-auto Glocks. If not then it makes them liberals. If responsible kids are allowed to CCP and open carry, won't it reduce school shootings? Kids who have at least a 2.5 GPA and no juvenile record. How can that not make schools safer. Because...

....I dont believe it was ever intended for the federal government to be involved in peoples lives to the extent that they now are....

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George Zimmerman sold the gun used to kill Treyvon Martin for 250,000 dollars. Also Michael Dunn said he saw a gun.

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No, people who are true 2A believers should be for kids carrying semi-auto Glocks. 

Oh, so you were just trolling me when you kept repeating that argument as if it was your true opinion. Thanks for wasting my time.

Also Michael Dunn said he saw a gun.

Yet he never mentioned it to his girlfriend as they drove away, and no gun was found in the vehicle. I guess that's why he was found guilty on all counts. And the Zimmerman case was a complete miscarriage of justice. He was guilty as the day is long.

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I do not live in America--and do not wish to. But I continue believe that, for all their self-indulgence and fickleness, Americans are, as a whole, imbued with common sense and that the current madness will pass. They will look back at "the woke" and laugh, even as they shudder.

I agree. I live half of the year in the States, love it to death, I definitely disagree on the fickleness, I think you can find that in every country, I personally have in my travels, and painting all Americans with a broad brush is a bit insulting, some of the societal problems are extremely complex and a lot of it deals with culture and race so it is very multi-faceted, but not at the current present and where it is now going, hopefully, next year some sanity will be restored about November next year, but I agree the woke madness is just way too much and history will not look too kindly on it and will mock it for decades to come

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I don't like the current President nor the one before the last President

Americans have told us that every one of their presidents since Carter has been pure and utter garbage, and terrible for the nation. It appears there isn't a single qualified person to be president in the entire nation. Americans keep electing presidents, then they tell us a couple of months later that the guy they elected is terrible, incompetent, and destroying the nation.

Remember, this is what Americans tell us.

Which I guess explains why we're watching them fall apart in real-time. I give their democracy one more president, maybe two, before either a coup, or civil war removes any illusion of democracy in America. When half the country thinks the other half is pure evil, there can be no other outcome.

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Remember, this is what Americans tell us.

I think it is what some Americans tell us. The ones I work with don't seem to give a toss about who is the president. They have more important things to be dealing with - repairing the bath, getting the kids to school, keeping the boss happy, whatever.

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I think it is what some Americans tell us.

It is what the American media has told us for every president since Carter. American media is run by Americans.

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Many people in the US are angry all the time about little things. They drive like maniacs, weaving in and out of lanes (US automobiles are apparently no longer equipped with working turn signals) from stoplight to stoplight as fast as they can, just to stop again. All to get home to sit on the sofa, eat a giant bag of potato chips and stare at the TV as the recliner strains under the weight of their 300lb. frame.

Watching TV can drive you crazy.

Politics is ridiculously argued and thrown into any simple conversation. A story about flowers here will turn into a rant on "libs" and Biden and Democrats and, and, and...

You can be standing in line at the grocery store and some yahoo will start mouthing off about politics. "Hey, them tater chips taste different now because the damn Democrats..."

The media is destroying civil conversation. Lying liars lie every hour on the hour 12 hours a day.

Rap music blaring so loud out of cars that you can hear it a kilometer away, with angry, vulgar lyrics.

There is a rule in the Officers' Mess of US Navy ships. There will be no discussion of politics or religion. It is strictly forbidden.

People have forgotten how to shut up.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Democracy only works when all the players have the same goal, with different ideas of how to achieve it.

America worked well when they used to be that way. But then at a certain point, a bunch of the players changed the goal to retaining power, rather than making a great country. Once that happened, the country was ruined, as the primary goal of the players now has divergence. And that's where it all fell apart.

With the demonization both teams participate in, the future looks pretty bleak for America.

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People have forgotten how to shut up.

I'd say the problem is that the people never had a voice before, not that they used to willingly shut up. The internet changed that however, and gave everyone a voice.. So now people are speaking. But humanity is still in its infancy insofar as average individuals being able to speak to the world, or have the world suddenly focus its attention on that individual. This was never anything in human history to compare, other than celebrities, and look how well it has worked out for them. So people say stuff that is stupid and should have been left unsaid, while the internet freaks out about something that isn't really worth all the attention its getting.

As individuals, we will over time become better at learning "how to shut up". And society will also become better at ignoring those that aren't worth wasting the time listening to. But for now, we're still figuring it all out.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Americans have told us that every one of their presidents since Carter has been pure and utter garbage, and terrible for the nation. It appears there isn't a single qualified person to be president in the entire nation.

Depending on your worldview outlook

Americans keep electing presidents, then they tell us a couple of months later that the guy they elected is terrible, incompetent, and destroying the nation.

I never heard of any country, ANY that had a consistent love for a leader without flip-flopping. You can’t please everyone and everyone has different expectations.

Remember, this is what Americans tell us.

In America, yes.

Which I guess explains why we're watching them fall apart in real-time. I give their democracy one more president, maybe two, before either a coup, or civil war removes any illusion of democracy in America.

Hmmm, doubt it unless liberals think they can usher in a Marxist system by force, other than that, won’t happen.

When half the country thinks the other half is pure evil, there can be no other outcome.

Dunno, France and Germany seem to be talking a lot about dissatisfaction, a lot in the most negative way. This is why the alt-right are rising and fast.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Many people in the US are angry all the time about little things. They drive like maniacs, weaving in and out of lanes (US automobiles are apparently no longer equipped with working turn signals)

That’s not unique to the US exclusively, but I will say, New Yorkers are a bit more impatient at times, overall though, not really.

from stoplight to stoplight as fast as they can, just to stop again. All to get home to sit on the sofa, eat a giant bag of potato chips and stare at the TV as the recliner strains under the weight of their 300lb. frame.

I think that’s a bit way over the top and more American over the top generalization as well as bashing than anything else just by the that Homer Simpson statement. Lol

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I never heard of any country, ANY that had a consistent love for a leader without flip-flopping.

Who was talking love? Not me. I was pointing out how America HATES every one of its presidents, and isn't shy to tell the world how badly they've fouled up with every single election, how incompetent their president is, and how all he wants is to destroy the nation. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Healthy nations dislike the policies of some of their leaders. Americans hate all their leaders. Very unhealthy.

Hmmm, doubt it unless liberals think they can usher in a Marxist system by force, other than that, won’t happen.

Maybe. Either they'll snap or your team will. With so many guns, so much hatred, and so much instability, it's hard to say which side the spark will land on that starts the fire. But there seems to be a lot more tinder on one side than the other. And the fire seems inevitable, seeing as everyone seems to be pouring more accelerant onto the pile, and nary a firefighter in sight.

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Who was talking love? Not me. I was pointing out how America HATES every one of its presidents,

That can be applied to every country. The IS is nowhere near unique to this. Before there was even a US people throughout world history

and isn't shy to tell the world how badly they've fouled up with every single election, how incompetent their president is, and how all he wants is to destroy the nation. Straight from the horse's mouth.

That’s the thing I love about America, we can say and voice our opinions about a leader we don’t approve of…..well, sometimes, recently, social media which is run by the left are trying to drown out criticism of a politician they like but allow hatred and opposing viewpoints of people they specifically don’t like politically.

Healthy nations dislike the policies of some of their leaders. Americans hate all their leaders. Very unhealthy.

Ok, you can believe that, having lived in many countries specifically in Germany, not even close to the truth.

.Maybe. Either they'll snap or your team will. With so many guns, so much hatred,

No, the left is just unhappy that they can’t abolish our 2nd amendment and that is a huge part of their built up hatred.

and so much instability, it's hard to say which side the spark will land on that starts the fire. But there seems to be a lot more tinder on one side than the other. And the fire seems inevitable, seeing as everyone seems to be pouring more accelerant onto the pile, and nary a firefighter in sight.

Not from the left, but at the same time they won’t allow the right to control or silence them either.

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That can be applied to every country.

No it can't. In what country do you see the sheer degree of hatred towards their leader like in the US? Look at Japan, I've never heard Japanese people express hatred of their leader, much less the media. And that's just this country.

No, the left is just unhappy that they can’t abolish our 2nd amendment and that is a huge part of their built up hatred.

See, you guys hate them too. Thanks for the case-in-point example of what I'm talking about.

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No it can't.

Ok, that’s your opinion, we just have to disagree on that.

In what country do you see the sheer degree of hatred towards their leader like in the US?

Germany, Sweden, Denmark, France, Ethiopia, South Africa and a slew of Latin .American nations.

Look at Japan, I've never heard Japanese people express hatred of their leader, much less the media. And that's just this country.

Ok, in Japan you can’t even criticize the government openly, what’s that?

See, you guys hate them too.

I don’t hate them, but they hate me for upholding it and that’s just too bad.

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Claims that American democracy is the best is misguided. 40 million people can not afford basic healthcare.

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Claims that American democracy is the best is misguided. 40 million people can not afford basic healthcare

I’m sorry for some of those people, but that has nothing to do with me or being fortunate, so in my case and millions of people that do have it, the system worked

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I’m sorry for some of those people, but that has nothing to do with me or being fortunate, so in my case and millions of people that do have it, the system worked

This is why America cannot work. Too selfish. "If it doesn't help me, then too bad, but I absolutely won't support it."

People in civilized want to bring each other up, so that we're all better off.

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so in my case and millions of people that do have it, the system worked

Yes, I am happy with the Japanese healthcare system too. Glad we agree. It's universal government healthcare. And you can't have guns in Japan

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Meanwhile, the American founders are being literally taken off of their pedestal in a rejection of the history they represent.

Translated as cancel culture.

The US isn't going anywhere though.

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the American founders...

...had slaves

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nishikatToday  12:21 pm JST

the American founders...

...had slaves

A terrible legacy left to the Americas by France, Spain, the Dutch Republic and England.

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A terrible legacy

The English outlawed slavery before the US. Trump states like Georgia and Alabama and Miss wanted to keep slavery which resulted in the Civil war. And the revolutionary was idiotic

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Meanwhile, the American founders are being literally taken off of their pedestal in a rejection of the history they represent.

And half the country is trying to take the current president down through a coup.

The country is a right mess an a failure.

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nishikatToday  12:54 pm JST

The English outlawed slavery before the US. Trump states like Georgia and Alabama and Miss wanted to keep slavery which resulted in the Civil war. And the revolutionary was idiotic

If we hear at all about Britain’s involvement in slavery, there’s often a slight whiff of self-congratulation – for abolishing it in 1833, 32 years ahead of the US, 

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200205-how-britain-is-facing-up-to-its-secret-slavery-history

You sound like you know alot about this subject.

Which country, the US, or the UK, had a longer slave trade history?

Which country, the US or the UK, transported more African slaves across the Atlantic?
0 ( +1 / -1 )

Which country, the US, or the UK, had a longer slave trade history?

UK stopped it first but the US Trump states wanted to continue and made a war over it. As it is obvious current Trump states generally have lower GDPs due to their lazy history

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

America was built on the broken backs of black slavery and segregation. Slavery ended in May 1865 but segregation continued until 1950, 85 years later. Most Black men and women were effectively barred from voting from around 1870 until the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 100 years after the end of slavery.

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zichiToday  01:59 pm JST

America was built on the broken backs of black slavery and segregation.

If you have any knowledge of the history of America, then what you said is true, because the British brought those slaves to America.

Worse than Nazis.

Slavery in Britain lasted more than 600 years. Incredible.

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The Trump south states wanted to continue slavery forever. And for some reason These southern states often with lower GDPs like to think they are people of Lincoln who was the leader of the smart north. They are a bit confused with this mixed up logic. But that's Trump

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Why Thomas Jefferson's Anti-Slavery Passage Was Removed from the Declaration of Independence

https://www.history.com/news/declaration-of-independence-deleted-anti-slavery-clause-jefferson

Unlike like in America, there was very little slavery in Britain. According to historian John Gillingham, by about 1200 slavery in the British Isles was non-existent.

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NickPrimeDec. 9  02:56 pm JST

Anger is the national sport in America, it is going to be impossible to let it go if everything tells the public they should be angry against everything. The trump presidency made it clear that too much of the people have been lost to the toxic culture.

After the Cold War ended in late 1989, there was an editorial cartoon showing politicians and military brass sobbing about 'finding new enemies' since Communism wasn't such a 'big almighty enemy' anymore. The US just had the 1989-1990 Panama War but Manuel Noreiga was just a local tinhorn 'bad boy' and not a 'world threat'. On August 2 they found one in Saddam Hussein, a 'good buddy' from the 80s who now was 'worse than Hitler'. Now 'Allah' was out to get us! Oh no!

Then that juvenile Rubbish Limberger and other crackpots overcame the AM dial blubbering their hate. Of course violent and sadistic attitudes got glorified thru news media, films, music, etc. Wars were broadcast on TV and radio 24/7. Yippy-yi-yay! War crimes like torture and illegal detention became accepted.

We've been building this toxic culture for over 30 years, building the perfect beast.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

zichiToday  02:25 pm JST

Unlike like in America, there was very little slavery in Britain.

Which country, the US or the UK, transported more African slaves across the Atlantic?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

RegBilk

zichiToday  02:25 pm JST

Unlike like in America, there was very little slavery in Britain.

Which country, the US or the UK, transported more African slaves across the Atlantic?

Which country had the most slaves in modern times? Which country bought the most slaves creating a market for them being transported from Africa? Which country kept slavery even after Britain abolished it? Which country had segregation? Which country banned black people from voting? Which country had the KKK? Which country had Jim Crow laws?

Slavery was bad, whoever was involved and there are major issues that need to be addressed.

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