Here
and
Now

opinions

Post-Brexit, Britain may need 'Hotel California' model

38 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2016.

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

38 Comments
Login to comment

@Godfrey King

If you want to build a valid argument do not sully it with a 'self-inflicted wound':- a mistaken assumption.

It's a correct statement. Brexit campaigners almost immediately disowned (ridiculous) promises they had made, such as diverting the UK's contributions to the EU directly into additional funding for the NHS. Other things that they had denied would happen simply came to pass anyway, such as the sudden drop in the value of the pound.

Before the referendum, Farage said this: "I did work in this for 20 years; I know a little bit more about it than most people [...] So again, these are ludicrous scare – these are scare stories that are being put up. Even if sterling, even if sterling were to fall a few percentage points after Brexit, so what?"

As we now see, sterling has fallen a lot more than a few percentage points. As the Economist describes it, "During the first two trading sessions following the referendum, sterling plunged 11%, the biggest drop since the pound floated in 1971."

What else? Well, the possibility that the United Kingdom will break up. Last year, it was said that there would probably not be another independence referendum in Scotland for a generation. Immediately after Brexit, it is right back on the table. Again, this would be the opposite of what jingoistic Brexit campaigners (and their supporters) want to see.

In addition, the UK has damaged its relations with the EU, and its credibility. The UK now has to disentangle itself from the EU, but do so from a position of weakness, looking bad and untrustworthy if it drags its feet, and unable to find out ahead of time what kind of "deal" it can get.

The Brexit leaders have scarpered. Farage will continue to draw salary and considerable expenses as a Member of the European Parliament, though not one of its more diligent ones. Johnson for all of about 24 hours looked as if he was about to become PM. Gove shot him down and was shot down in turn. The single Brexit contender left, Leadsom, doesn't have a shitshow of being the next Tory leader.

Whatever you prefer to think, this referendum result is undeniably a wound, even when it is viewed only from the perspective of the leading Brexit campaigners.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The American stock market is booming, and so will Brits.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@cleo Sounds lovely. Good luck and I hope you can compete.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"A bigger domestic market means more people to buy stuff, which means more jobs for people making and selling stuff."

Yeah, you're talking sweatshops. A couple of major surveys in recent years show the world's best countries in terms of socio economic development are very small markets: NZ, Singapore, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Canada, etc. Mostly with controlled immigration, as well. Bigger and open ain't better -- it's usually worse.

"Well, Japan has been in the economic dumps ever since the bubble burst;"

Japan's living standards have actually increased a lot since then. You're probably referencing GDP, which measures total output but not necessarily economic health. Japan's GDP per capita outpaced the US's throughout the 2000s.

Britain's living standards, however, have fallen consistently,,,, with the decline accelerating since enlargement in 2004.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

if your capacity to earn a living was affected by the volume and adaptability of those seeking a better life

I think that's a big if. Why should it be? A bigger domestic market means more people to buy stuff, which means more jobs for people making and selling stuff.

Everyone has the right to try and better their lot.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I'm not going to tell people looking for a better life for themselves and their children that they're not allowed to move from whatever hellhole/economic backwater they happened to have been born in.

And if your capacity to earn a living was affected by the volume and adaptability of those seeking a better life, you'd just move on - right?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Would I be correct in saying that Japan controls its own borders and thusly restricts the free movement of workers in to Japan?

Yes you would.

Do you think that has good or bad impact on your personal economic well being?

Well, Japan has been in the economic dumps ever since the bubble burst; there are tariffs on stuff coming in and stuff going out, which hinders trade, lowering employment and wages, and raising prices. Japan's economy (and society?) might have been a good bit healthier the past two decades with freer movement of goods, money, services and yes, people. So on the whole, probably a more negative than positive effect. Though there are other factors, of course.

As someone who moved from one nice country to another nice country just because I could (and for whom things have turned out very nicely, thank you), I'm not going to tell people looking for a better life for themselves and their children that they're not allowed to move from whatever hellhole/economic backwater they happened to have been born in.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@cleo Would I be correct in saying that Japan controls its own borders and thusly restricts the free movement of workers in to Japan? Do you think that has good or bad impact on your personal economic well being?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

thetoleratedone said:

In fact they actually prefer you do not embrace their culture and do not attempt to assimilate or integrate unlike most countries.

And you speak from personal experience as a non-white person in those countries? If so, what ethnicity and which countries do you speak of where they dont merely 'tolerate' but embrace and integrate immigrants?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Voted remain myself but there was a strong economic argument for Brexit. Europe is in decline. Check youth unemployment in Greece and Spain and be afraid. Europe as a trading block has the lowest growth of all similar blocks. Many commonwealth nations are on the up. The world's 3 biggest economies are not European and the UK can now have closer relations with other powers. Britain can easily forge strong relationships with up-and-coming economies too, whilst still maintaining links with Europe. I support the EU, but even I can see that membership of the EU has not protected us from e.g. Chinese steel imports. The destruction of Welsh industries by e.g. China led to Wales voting leave. Where was the EU support? Where was the power in being part of the EU? Where was the safety in numbers? Where were the barriers against a nation like China dumping all over European interests?

I am sure plenty of racists voted for Brexit, but most did not vote leave out of racism. Anyway, Britain will not really leave the EU in our lifetimes. There will be an amicable separation of sorts in a few years from now, but no divorce. Don't forget that over 48% of us supported remain. The country is quite evenly divided on this issue still and there will be compromise once the dust settles. I hate Theresa May, but I believe she will be able to negotiate the amicable separation that both UK and Europe need for a more prosperous future.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The UK dis not self inflict a wound by sensibly leaving a useless political overlord bleeding the country to death. The UK finally closed the EU wound to save itself from certain demise because the EU is not an economic bloc, it is a political bloc and one based in socialism, which will fail as all socialist political systems eventually do. The UK may in fact join the economic area like Norway. The EU, after the politicians there get over their own desires for retaliation, will soon realize they need the UK, far more than the UK needs the,EU. London is the financial gateway for the Euro and the EU, to the world, without this,gateway, the EU will just be an isolated regional bloc.one thing this article and many others do is putting far too much credit and faith in the effect of government on economics. Government is never a driver of economics, it is always a drag and has a negative impact. The EU is worse because it is an entirely unnecessary extra layer of government siphoning of the economy.had the EU, stayed the EEC, strictly an economic union, then it would have been relevant and useful to all parties involved. There is no benefit to overlord political systems, the fewer of these in the,world, the better.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@GodfreyKing, a most cogent comment, at least from this Canadian's perspective. We're still part of the Commonwealth, and that organization works a lot better than the EU, in my humble opinion. Let's sit back and watch, shall we?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"I would have voted for Brexit if I lived in Britain. The Brexiteers simply wanted to take their country, culture and way of life back." - comments

It is interesting that the premise, "if I lived in Britain", disqualifies that the comment knows anything of what they believe is "take(-ing) their country, culture and way of life back".

This slogan, 'taking their country back', has been test marketed in the States during the rise of Dick Armey's 'Tea-Party' nonsense.

That it is applied now to BRexit is a thin co-opting of sloganeers in the States and reflects the most ill-informed opinions from 'Tea Party' racism.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

a country that requires people to choose a Japanese name if they naturalise.

Nope. If you naturalise you can keep your name. The only proviso is that you have to be able to write it using Japanese script - kanji, hiragana or katakana, or a combination. This is no different from Mohammed or Taro or Alexei using the alphabet to write their names on official forms in the UK because it's more than likely that Brits will not be able to read محمد‎‎ or 太郎 or Алексей.

I haven't naturalised, but my surname is Japanese (from Mr. cleo, bless him) and I write my given name in katakana so that people can read it. It's no big deal. As I said, What's in a name?

New research suggests all British people are still the original settlers, not immigrants, who came from the Basque Country

Oh my. You mean immigrants from the Basque Country?

like the Normans

Invaders....

You can look back and yearn for a past that never existed, or you can look forward and embrace the future. It's good to know where you came from, but the trouble with looking back all the time is that you lose sight of where you're going.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"What's in a name?" asks somebody who presumably lives in a country that requires people to choose a Japanese name if they naturalise. Hopefully one day Britain will require anybody who naturalises there to anglicise their name. Unfortunately I doubt we'll ever be able to legalise other things that are commonplace in Japan, like natives-only bars (yes, we are. New research suggests all British people are still the original settlers, not immigrants, who came from the Basque Country. The Celts and Saxons were only ever a minority who made themselves into an aristocracy, like the Normans. It's also possible English is actually a much earlier branch of the Germanic language than the one the Saxons bought with them)

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@M3M3M3

...splitting single market access from free movement would actually threaten British manufacturing jobs.

What there are left of them.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Brexiteers simply wanted to take their country, culture and way of life back

And how does voting to cut off your own nose to spite your face achieve that? In or out of the EU, access to the EU market means the free movement of people in and out. Except if you're out, you get no say at all in any of the decisions the rest of the market is making.

I've never understood how what the people next door eat, what language they speak and how the choose to live their lives, impacts on me at all.

Those of you who have made lives in Japan and 'assume(d) it's language, culture, and customs'; I take it you're still using English (well, you're here on JT...) - do you insist on Japanese only at home? Refuse to speak to your kids in English? Eat (and feed them) only Japanese food? Listen only to Japanese music? Watch only Japanese TV? Wear only Japanese clothes?

No? Neither do I. Japanese culture enriches my life, but I certainly haven't given up the culture I brought with me. The neighbours get exposed to me talking to the kids and the critters in English (we have the only bilingual dog in town, and, I suspect, the only English-monoglot cat), the aromas coming out of my kitchen are rarely soy-sauce/miso-based and sometimes I even share my home-cooked forn dishes with the neighbours. It seems to please them, and they reciprocate in kind so we get to eat things we might never make ourselves, which I think (and they seem to agree with me) is mutually beneficial. My computer, cellphone, tablet and video recorder are all set to display English language. My friends think it's perhaps a bit quirky, but it's just me. Some folk on JT are always banging on about the Japanese being insular and whining that foreigners are forever outsiders; but no one I come into contact with in my daily life has ever claimed that the way I live my life here impacts on or detracts from their culture and way of life. At all. In any way.

Why should people coming to the UK be compelled to act any differently? Why can't they do their thing, and you do yours?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@sangetsu03. While you may have embraced Japanese language and culture it is unlikely they will embrace you. In fact they actually prefer you do not embrace their culture and do not attempt to assimilate or integrate unlike most countries. You are merely tolerated.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I would have voted for Brexit if I lived in Britain. The Brexiteers simply wanted to take their country, culture and way of life back. I wouldn't want to see my hometown becoming like sangetsu03's hometown in America.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

As has been repeated to the rocks-for-brains Brexiteers since the beginning, Britain, in order to keep favourable access to the EU market (which attracts the foreign investment which is vitally needed) will still have to accept free movement of labour (and why not? Capital and goods can go anywhere). But they will have no say in anything. How that is an improvement on what Britain had before I fail to see but I realise with total exasperation these days that liberal democracy is a failing project because it failed to instil reason in the people. As long as the Brexiteers can live their delusion that they have taken back control from the big, bad beastie all seems ok with them. Meanwhile, America controls their military.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I keep hoping that when the MPs vote on it they turn it down. The result wasn't binding, just an advisory.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"Names mean little...."

Yes they do. Name your next kid Adolf... and then watch what happens.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Excellent Post Cleo!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If the baby was born in an islamic country, then its all good. But if the baby is born in the US...

...it should have a nice American name, like, lemmesee, Geronimo? Pocahontas? Hiawatha? What are all these James, Johns and Roberts doing cluttering up the place and bringing in their forn culture?

You can stab a guess how many of those wanting to remain were scared witless by the constant predicitions of doom and gloom since proven to be false

You can also stab a guess at how many of those voting to leave did so because they believed the lies bandied about by the Brexiters. '350million for the NHS' (admitted to be a 'mistake') and 'control over our borders' (continuing trade with the EU, which the Brexiters also promised, involves the open movement of goods, services, money ... and people. So, no closed borders) have since proven to be false, blatant lies pandering to the ignorant. (I say since - anyone paying attention with an open mind realised they were lies right from the start. Obviously many weren't paying attention, and/or didn't have open minds)

As for the predictions of doom and gloom - my pound savings have been slashed by some 15%, which has made me feel pretty gloomy.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

I guess Britain is not hurting right now?

Still waiting for them to invoke article 50, which won't happen.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The root cause of the British vote was racism.>

Ah, the lazy go-to response of the uninformed, condemning 17 million people as racist because they want control over their own borders! Spend a little time in the UK, you might learn something about the people who voted. Funnily enough, the vast majority of Remain voters are also keen on not letting Turkey join the EU. As are most Europeans. Are they also racist? A sensible immigration & border policy is not racist, it's, well, sensible.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

**

by REUTERS

Opinions Jul. 07, 2016 - 03:50AM JST ( 13 )

BRUSSELS —

After the self-inflicted wound of voting to quit the European Union**

If you want to build a valid argument do not sully it with a 'self-inflicted wound':- a mistaken assumption. I note the articke writer does not give a name but hides behind the 'Reuters Brussels' title which is a give away in itself. Anything that detracts from the 'Brussels project' is an 'evil' that must be condemned whatever its worth it seems.

The article carries with it another assumption...that trading with the EU is the 'final solution' beyond which all life will end.

What the writer refers to as a 'self inflicted wound' was actually the votes of 17 million British subjects who are not in the grip of a manic adulation of the EU and 'They that must be obeyed'. A 'close vote' some say with a majority of nearly one million and a half people over those who wanted to remain. You can stab a guess how many of those wanting to remain were scared witless by the constant predicitions of doom and gloom since proven to be false and out of those same mouths retractions as they try to undo the damage their pre-referendum rhetoric tried to inflict.

The Reuter writers 'wound' (hardly the impartial Reuters journalism of old) was in fact opening up an opportunity to trade with the rest of the world and not rely on a narrow and inward thinking failing project that its auditors have refused to sign off the books of for nearly 20 years. No doubt the author and its masters are sour at losing the cash cow of the Worlds 5th largest economy and the centre of the financial capital of the world. As a UK born citizen born during World War II having lectures from someone based in Brussels who have little notion of democracy gets a bit much when accompanied by suggestions of racism. I think those that try to use that as an accusation should take care.......accusing someone or some 17 milliion people of a criminal offence might well garner more than enough legal recompense for libel, enough to put Reuters and 'Japantoday' out of business!

Those voters had evry right to cast such an opinion and it not only should but will be respected and cuts across all political parties not just the slur that they are one political entity. And for your 'Master Barker Junker' (rhymes with Bunker) to scoff by using a false premise that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage have quit is typical of the misinformation and blinkered bias coming daily out of the Brussels propoganda machine. No Brexit supporter had any automatic right to be elected to lead an elected body.....Boris Johnson quit from running to be Conservative Party leader.....he had three other Brexit candidates to contend with so he has now declared his support for Angela Leadsom. And Nigel Farage has not quit anything either. 'Stepping Aside' (as UKIP leader) and that frees up his time to support those other parties in the EU trying to escape the obvious tyranny of an EU in denial. (amongst other things he wishes to do after a supreme, long and tiring campaign to lead the UK out of the EU from which anyone is entitled to a rest having achieved what he set out to do.....but still as an EU MP).

EU leaders might well be disturbed since money is all beyond quality of life and sincerity of purpose. How many of them would find their personal incomes much lighter without the taxpayers of Europe furnishing their homes and leisure time with riches beyond most waste of space idle peoples comprehensions. Now THAT would be a self-inflicted wound if it were seen to be true en masse....but I am sure there are sincere supporters of the EU as much as there are sincere people who wish to live in harmony with it but not within it. To think otherwise would be truly a self-inflicted wound to anyone's intelectual awareness. Smarten your act up Reuters....you are supposed to report the news not make it up to serve your political masters and don't in future libel and insult 17 miliion people. Its all a matter of opinion...and the majority here did not happen to share your adoration of what they saw was a once worthy cause damaged beyond repair. The originators of the Common Market did not share the vision of those that have turned the dream into a nightmare.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

But if the baby is born in the US, there's a chance it can become radicalized and pose a threat.

No muslim ever bombed an abortion clinic. Radicalized Christians on the other hand...

You can call it racism if you like, but others might prefer to say that they fear the deterioration, or even destruction of Britain's culture

Call it what you prefer. Its the same thing.

In my hometown in America, Spanish is now more widely spoken than English. Mexican food must now be served in the country jail, and at least 2 days a week at the public schools. Mexican national holidays are celebrated with more zeal that American holidays

Ironic isn't it? You destroyed Native American culture, ethnically cleansed the continent of its indigenous people and replaced it with...white american culture? Now you are complaining that the same thing is happening to YOU. The difference is, the hispanics are not killing you off the way you killed off the native americans. They are coming to live, work, and make a better life for themselves. A much better method of taking over than the white way, I'd say.

Weren't Omar and Tashfeen's hubby American, with Middle Eastern Names?

Weren't Timothy McVey, Terry McNicholas, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and James Eagan Holmes American WITHOUT Middle Eastern Names?

Makes it easy for federal agents / intelligence community to profile muslims when they embark or debark from planes and their terminals.

Just slap a yellow star onto them why don't you?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

The thing about "Mohammad", and its various different spellings is this: if you look at the list Cleo linked to, Mohammad and it variations is the only new recognisable name from the Middle East. There's roughly 200,000 boys with names listed on that list. That means boys with Mohammad and variations make up about 3.5% of the list.

Hardly earth-shattering.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"The name of the prophet @ 7240 beats out the top three by a fair margin." - comments

Wow, a fine tuning of justification of prejudice based on spelling variations. Comical. No, really, the science of hate in the particles of variation. Another firm foundation for hate, spelling.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Activate the leave notification and get on with it ffs. Every day Britain dithers the more they are seen as morons who would never be able to get a favourable trade deal from anyone ever again

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@cleo Thanks for the data. But, if you add all three spelling variations (14 Muhammad 3,588, 27 Mohammed 2,536 and 56 Mohammad 1,116) then The name of the prophet @ 7240 beats out the top three by a fair margin. 1 Oliver 6,649 2 Jack 5,804 3 Harry 5,379 Not that I mind. I think his "heaven is under your mother's feet," rather splendid.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Sangetsu, the effect of Brexit will be to stop freedom of movement for Europeans, the vast majority being white english speakers. Their children would be indistinguishably British after a single generation. Also, I don't think there are many Polish migrants naming their child Mohammed.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Brexit is a myth till they actually invoke Lisbon Article 50.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

"If you object to a baby because of its name, I definitely detect the stench of racism." - comments

Racism and the projection of hate based on prejudice is an easy sales point for BRexit.

Once mass hysteria eliminates facts, as the comment notes, the vigilantism of ignorance drives fear and pride in prejudice. Note also how many of the BRexit leadership ran for cover immediately after the vote and economic cratering followed.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

When the number one name for babies born in England is "Mohammed"

It isn't. It's number 27. (Muhammad' is number 14.) If you add them both together, it's still not number 1. And in any case, what's in a name?

If you object to a baby because of its name, I definitely detect the stench of racism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-names-top-100-most-popular-boys-and-girls-names-10459074.html

10 ( +14 / -4 )

The root cause of the British vote was racism.

You can call it racism if you like, but others might prefer to say that they fear the deterioration, or even destruction of Britain's culture. When the number one name for babies born in England is "Mohammed", and people make jokes about how you'll never see an Englishman in London, there is going to be some concern.

In my hometown in America, Spanish is now more widely spoken than English. Mexican food must now be served in the country jail, and at least 2 days a week at the public schools. Mexican national holidays are celebrated with more zeal that American holidays. As the number of students of Mexican descent has increased at my former high school, the number of graduates going on to college has dropped dramatically, and the dropout rate more than doubled.

Neighborhoods with tidy lawns, spotless houses, and unlocked doors have become rundown and dirty. Lawns have been replaced with weeds, curtains with old bed sheets, door-to-door salesmen with drug dealers. The place smells of stale urine, as the residents don't want to be troubled to walk inside their homes and use their toilets. Doors are no longer left unlocked, it is not safe for children to play outside anymore.

I am not a racist, and hating to see my former hometown and neighborhood turn into a third-world barrio does not make me a racist. It is not the ethnicity of the people which caused the decline, but the culture these people brought with them.

I am all for immigration, provided those who immigrate embrace the culture of the country they move to, and assume it's language, culture, and customs, as I have done since I came to Japan.

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

Britons voted to leave the bloc they joined in 1973 chiefly due to anger over immigration from EU countries

The root cause of the British vote was racism.

The same motivation Americans find in Trump's Campaign of Hate driven by prejudice.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites