Profit or patriotism? What's driving fight between U.S., Apple

Have you looked into the details of that comment? The iPhone has changed since then. The tool does not exist.

Yes, I have. Apple comes out with new patches a few times a year, every couple of years a new OS and a new line of phones, there is no reason why Apple can't do this, none.

That's not going to help them one whit if someone leaks it anyways.

Yeah, IF that's exactly what I want to say.

It has nothing to do with carelessness. If someone wants to steal it, they may be able to get around any security measures.

Again, yes, IF.

The only way to ensure absolute safety is to not create the tool in the first place.

Sorry, but I care more about Jihadi terrorism and the security and safety of the country and I want the law to do EVERYTHING in their power to obtain the information on that phone. I care and worry about the citizens and their lives first and foremost.

Anyways, it's a moot point. We just have to wait for this to go to the supreme court now. That's the only way this will be resolved now, as Apple will not create the tool without a judgement from them.

This is true and it will in no doubt go all the way to the Supreme Court, but I am definitely hoping that the courts will force Apple to comply with the requests from the Feds.

But Cook already admitted before or not at least disputed that one exists. So if the Feds were helped by Apple on over 70 other occasions to get into the iPhones, then one can say, Apple can do it again.

Have you looked into the details of that comment? The iPhone has changed since then. The tool does not exist.

Apple could assign the most important individuals to work on the phone and like with the CIA, have The individuals that are involved in getting out this information to sign a waiver NOT to disclose any information with the outside public and if they do they could be subjected to a fine or a lengthy imprisonment.

That's not going to help them one whit if someone leaks it anyways.

But Apple is not that careless, so that shouldn't be a concern.

It has nothing to do with carelessness. If someone wants to steal it, they may be able to get around any security measures. The only way to ensure absolute safety is to not create the tool in the first place.

Anyways, it's a moot point. We just have to wait for this to go to the supreme court now. That's the only way this will be resolved now, as Apple will not create the tool without a judgement from them.

It's still Pandora's box. In creating the tool, the tool then exists.

But Cook already admitted before or not at least disputed that one exists. So if the Feds were helped by Apple on over 70 other occasions to get into the iPhones, then one can say, Apple can do it again.

What if someone from Apple leaks it?

Apple could assign the most important individuals to work on the phone and like with the CIA, have The individuals that are involved in getting out this information to sign a waiver NOT to disclose any information with the outside public and if they do they could be subjected to a fine or a lengthy imprisonment. There are always ways to keep the information in.

Every iphone in the world can then be compromised.

But Apple is not that careless, so that shouldn't be a concern.

Ignoring the fact that this is an unacceptable risk for iphone owners, it would cause massive destruction to Apple, seeing as the iphone is their number one product.

If that were the case, sure. But the Feds are just asking for the information and they could just hand the phone over to Apple like they did in the past and Apple could fetch the data they need and keep the phone and give the data back to the Feds, but Apple wanted to play hardball with this they bought a lot of notice and notoriety to the issue and curiosity and not everybody's going to be watching them and everybody's going to try and find someway how to get into these phones and try to find a back door, thanks to Cook's incompetence. They should've never made a big issue out of this just like the other issues in the past.

This is not about either Profit or Patriotism.

This is about Trust, Privacy and not punishing the vast majority for one or two kooks.

I must say, Isn't it better that we lose a few citizens rather than 330,000,000 lose their rights?

Woe-woe~woe . . . . you're talking about innocent americans (in San Bernardino) who were savagely murdered on their home turf by "radical islam" . . . . the ordinary John / Jane Doe's (330,000,000) DO NOT have to worry about losing their rights.

The FBI is simply asking that Apple disable the data-wipe feature on this SPECIFIC phone so that they can brute force the password. As of right now, only Apple can hack every body's phone by doing so, and the government says it's cool if it stays that way! Just hack this one terrorist's phone for us please... In my eyes, Apple's move has really been nothing more than a publicity stunt.

This is a far reaching question. While you MAY be comfortable with the current Administration having this power, would you be comfortable with the NEXT president having it? That's the problem here- once a power is given to the government, they are loathe to give it away. Witness Bush's drone programme, which was expanded and deepened under Obama.

Forcing Apple to design software against their will is akin to slavery. If the feds want the info, they can hire their OWN team and try to get it.

If the govt. thought they were so skilled at stopping terro activities, and if they really were, this whole story would have been on a back burner.

I must say, Isn't it better that we lose a few citizens rather than 330,000,000 lose their rights?

The FBI should agree to give the phone over to Apple, let them get access to the info in question, give just the info desired to the FBI, and then let Apple destroy or wipe the phone of the tech needed to access the info.

It's still Pandora's box. In creating the tool, the tool then exists. What if someone from Apple leaks it? Every iphone in the world can then be compromised. Ignoring the fact that this is an unacceptable risk for iphone owners, it would cause massive destruction to Apple, seeing as the iphone is their number one product.

In cases such as this when it is clear the owner of the phone is/was a terrorist and killed or planned to kill people, Apple should play ball.

Absolutely not. The problem is that the term "terrorist" is not very specifically defined, and could be more widely applied, or used with the word "potential" to make it even more vague. The government could say that just about anyone is a potential terrorist, and for the public safety, it is necessary for the government to have access to just about anyone's personal information.

Government intrusion on our lives increased under George Bush, and the patriot act, and under Obama, it has become even worse. When we give more power and authority to the government, we have less power and authority for ourselves, and in America, it is supposed to be the opposite. The people are supposed to be the ultimate authority, and the government exists to serve the people. But we are reaching a point that instead of serving, the government is beginning to rule. That is unacceptable in a free society, and must not be tolerated.

Whats the point of having our renowned federal agencies ie; FBI, DEA, US Marshals, Secret Service etc. . . . if we prevent them from "doing" their jobs??

Their job is to obey the law, and the law states very specifically that the people have the right not to incriminate themselves, and that government agencies may not access any person information without consent, or probable cause. We already know over the last 7 years that the NSA has illegally looked at the personal information of American citizens without consent, or probable cause. The government has shown great disregard for the rule of law which they are required to obey, and I don't trust them to not to abuse any new tools they should get if Apple provides them.

The fundamental problem with government agencies and employees is that they are human beings, and subject to the same weaknesses all people have, which is why for centuries the power of the government has strict limits. In recent years, in the name of fighting terrorism, these limits have been relaxed. This is a mistake. I would rather live in a free society with a some danger, than a safe society with no freedom.

This discussion would be better if people knew what the hell they were talking about.

Of course they do

I agree with you based on the absolutely nothing whatsoever in reality to suggest it is true.

If they can make a secure phone and patches to black 3rd party apps and jailbreaks, they can make a patch that would allow the skeleton key feature to be bypassed.

You obviously don't know what a patch is, because if you did, you would realize this statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Apple is by not complying with the Feds request to gather information of a phone that belongs to 2 dead terrorists.

Nope. That's not prevention, it's just not enabling them to be able to get into anyone's iphone. Not enabling is not the same as prevention - the feds are free to do whatever they want with the phone they have, they just don't have the technical capability to be able to do it.

That's a bunch of BS.

You know, other than that it's not.

If they were able to do so only with this phone, and not compromise security for every iphone user in the entire world, they probably would. But it's not as simple as just opening this phone.

Apple has done this 70 times already, Cook was the one that put his foot in his mouth and publicized this issue. They could ask the FBI to hand them over the phone, go to some secret laboratory or safe house, open the phone, give the Feds the info and keep the phone and do whatever they want with it, pure and simple. If Apple never have dealt with this issue before, I wouldn't say anything, but they did and they could and they won't, primarily because of the notoriety circus that is surrounding the issue.

Same reason as above. Apple doesn't have a tool that can do this, and they feel it's irresponsible to build one.

Of course they do and Apple employees some of the smartest people on the planet. If they can make a secure phone and patches to black 3rd party apps and jailbreaks, they can make a patch that would allow the skeleton key feature to be bypassed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/apple-unlocked-iphones-for-the-feds-70-times-before.html

No one is preventing them from doing their job

Apple is by not complying with the Feds request to gather information of a phone that belongs to 2 dead terrorists.

they have the phone and can do what they want with it.

Except get into the phone. If they try too many times, you know the phone will permanently delete all information. Of course, they want to avoid that.

Apple is simply not complying with their request,

No, Strange. If they did, the FBI would wouldn't ask and now take this to the Supreme Court where Apple will probably lose, given the reasons and circumstances involving the Feds and Apple trying to block and ongoing terrorism investigation.

which would come at the sacrifice of phone security for every iPhone user on the entire planet.

That's a bunch of BS. No one is telling Apple to go with this public, the Feds can hand the phone over to Apple and they can gather the information discreetly without any prying eyes.

I don't want millions of people to be compromised.

Then why are you saying Apple should do something that would compromise millions of people?

You can't have it both ways.

Its not the FBI's intention to hack into ordinary John and Jane Doe's iPhone.

US governmental agencies have already shown that they are willing to infringe on innocent people's privacy. You cannot say that they are not going to hack into the average person's iphone.

All they want to to do is open up, that malicious, Tashfeen Malik's iPhone. Its one iPhone.

Yes, but in giving them the tools to open up that one iphone, then can then open up any iphone. And if someone in the FBI steals that tool and leaks it, then it may end up that anyone can open up any iphone. So giving them that tool would compromise security for all iphone owners everywhere in the world - something which you claimed you don't want to happen.

gaijintravellerFeb. 21, 2016 - 09:24AM JST

Why don't they just ask Apple to extract the information from the phone for them?

How? Apple itself does not have an access to the information.

Does anyone think that Apple should have an access to any piece of information in i-clouds?

Does anyone think that the Government should have an access to the information in i-clouds? If so, what do you do if the access system is hijacked?

Shame on you for promoting something that would compromise security for millions of people all around the world.

I don't want millions of people to be compromised. Its not the FBI's intention to hack into ordinary John and Jane Doe's iPhone. All they want to to do is open up, that malicious, Tashfeen Malik's iPhone. Its one iPhone. The FBI are conducting an investigation, it should be noted that the letter "I" in FBI stands for -INVESTIGATION.

can't believe it is only about that one IPhone.

It's not. It's about all iphones.

Crackers have volunteered to do it and I don't think the Government is above hiring one behind the scenes.

And that's how they should be doing it.

I think that there is more going on we know about it, can't believe it is only about that one IPhone.

Crackers have volunteered to do it and I don't think the Government is above hiring one behind the scenes.

Shame on Apple.

Shame on you for promoting something that would compromise security for millions of people all around the world.

Wrong. The American people do indeed deserve "liberty and safety" from sea to shining sea. Shame on Apple.

In cases such as this when it is clear the owner of the phone is/was a terrorist and killed or planned to kill people, Apple should play ball.

If they were able to do so only with this phone, and not compromise security for every iphone user in the entire world, they probably would. But it's not as simple as just opening this phone.

Why don't they just ask Apple to extract the information from the phone for them?

Same reason as above. Apple doesn't have a tool that can do this, and they feel it's irresponsible to build one.

The FBI wants to back up the phone to icloud and then get into icloud, which is more easily accessed, but cannot do so because the icloud account password was changed at the instruction of the FBI and no longer matches the password on the phone.

The FBI doesn't want this, Apple suggested doing it, but it couldn't be done since the password was changed.

Whats the point of having our renowned federal agencies ie; FBI, DEA, US Marshals, Secret Service etc. . . . if we prevent them from "doing" their jobs??

No one is preventing them from doing their job - they have the phone and can do what they want with it. Apple is simply not complying with their request, which would come at the sacrifice of phone security for every iphone user on the entire planet.

This isn't just an ordinary crime. We're talking about "Terrorism" which occurred on american soil. Apple is WRONG.

As has been said so many times: "he who would give up an essential liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety".

a back door for any one is a back door for everyone, the self destruct feature is there to stop a brute force attack. if thay build in a way to disable that feature, anyone can use it to disable that feature and launch a brute force attack.

Apple Inc and the U.S. government are making their cases before anyone steps into a courtroom over a judge’s order forcing Apple to help the FBI hack into an iPhone in a sensational terrorism case.

Whats the point of having our renowned federal agencies ie; FBI, DEA, US Marshals, Secret Service etc. . . . if we prevent them from "doing" their jobs??

This isn't just an ordinary crime. We're talking about "Terrorism" which occurred on american soil. Apple is WRONG.

Both commenter and writer seem not to really understand what the FBI is really asking Apple to do.

They're not just asking them to hack the phone, they're asking them to make code for them that would allow the government to hack into anyone's phone in the future.

Now knee jerk reaction is, but oh terrorism!, however the government isn't good with technology in general. In no time that code would be in some Internet hacker enthusiasts' hands and everyone personal information would be accessible.

They're asking Apple to weaken everyone's security mostly because they don't understand how the Internets and cyber security work.

The FBI is asking for something that could unlock any phone and that is what Apple is refusing to give it to them. Why don't they just ask Apple to extract the information from the phone for them?

It seems that the phone had not been backed up to the icloud since October 19th. The FBI wants to back up the phone to icloud and then get into icloud, which is more easily accessed, but cannot do so because the icloud account password was changed at the instruction of the FBI and no longer matches the password on the phone.

In cases such as this when it is clear the owner of the phone is/was a terrorist and killed or planned to kill people, Apple should play ball. Would Apple also have refused if it were Bin Laden's phone or one of the 9/11 hijackers' phones? If we find out later that another attack could have been thwarted thanks to the info on such a phone, it won't look good.