Sex eligibility rules for female athletes are complex and legally difficult. Here's how they work

That's because some women, assigned female at birth and identifying as women, have conditions called differences of sex development, or DSD, that involves an XY chromosome pattern or natural testosterone higher than the typical female range.

Just intelligent design at work.

If you carry the Y chromosome, you are a male.

If you don't, you are female.

In a recent poll, 98.7.% of respondents said they were against men in girls' sports.

This issue is exposing where the woke agenda on the left takes society.

BanthuToday 07:25 am JST

If you carry the Y chromosome, you are a male.

So no obsessing over what are in pants? I'm sure this would cause many interesting outcomes.

Testosterone levels — not XY chromosomes, which is the pattern typically seen in men — are the key criterion of eligibility in Olympic events where the sport's governing body has framed and approved rules.

Elite male athletes have a 10-30% advantage over females depending on the sport. There are many more factors than just testosterone. If the IOC go down the testosterone route then kiss bye bye to women's sport at the elite level.

Ban men from competing against women in these sports.

Elite male athletes have a 10-30% advantage over females depending on the sport. There are many more factors than just testosterone. If the IOC go down the testosterone route then kiss bye bye to women's sport at the elite level.

I agree with this one. I don't think trans women should be allowed to compete with trans women. There should be a separate category, or maybe two (trans women, trans men).

If trans men want to compete with men, then they can go ahead, and good luck! But if we're talking the spirit of fair competition here, letting trans women compete with women is not fair.

That said, the people who got all uppity about the boxer this Olympics were idiots, as she wasn't a trans woman.

If you carry the Y chromosome, you are a male.

If you don't, you are female.

This is apparently surprising for you, but science is not stuck on the 19th century and your reductionist concept about gender is not only outdated but proved wrong. It is much better to first consult what is the consensus of science before trying to impose something mistaken.

In a recent poll, 98.7.% of respondents said they were against men in girls' sports.

Which is not a problem, the problem is trying to impose a mistaken concept about gender to justify keeping girls out of girls sports.

Elite male athletes have a 10-30% advantage over females depending on the sport. There are many more factors than just testosterone. If the IOC go down the testosterone route then kiss bye bye to women's sport at the elite level.

Which is completely irrelevant, the article is not about having elite male athletes on female competition, that is a huge misrepresentation of the actual situation. This is about women that have a natural advantage or transgender women that could have it, not about men.

For the people that the article actually is talking about the correct course of action is to evaluate objectively if an advantage is there, then measure it and decide with the objective information obtained if this reduces fairness or not. Only then measures can be taken to ensure competition is fair.

Ban men from competing against women in these sports.

Men do not compete against women on these sports.

Ban men from competing against women in these sports.

It's that simple.

Mr KiplingToday 10:09 am JST

Testosterone levels — not XY chromosomes, which is the pattern typically seen in men — are the key criterion of eligibility in Olympic events where the sport's governing body has framed and approved rules.

Elite male athletes have a 10-30% advantage over females depending on the sport. There are many more factors than just testosterone. If the IOC go down the testosterone route then kiss bye bye to women's sport at the elite level.

Sounds like someone doesn't know how much is determined by hormones alone...

bass4funkToday 11:00 am JST

Ban men from competing against women in these sports.

It's that simple.

And blood test all of the teenage daughters before competition? I guess it could work, but some will object.

It's not the genitalia that gives these athletes an unfair advantage, it's their genetics. If the two boxing finalists are in fact XY, then they clearly have to change their eligibility criteria.

If you carry the Y chromosome, you are a male.

If you don't, you are female.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

It's that simple.

And as frequently happens, oversimplifying a problem until the representation becomes false does nothing to solve it, in fact this also frequently becomes a problem on its own because the solution proposed (even worse, implemented) do not apply to the actual problem, only to the false oversimplified misrepresentation of the problem.

It's not the genitalia that gives these athletes an unfair advantage, it's their genetics. If the two boxing finalists are in fact XY, then they clearly have to change their eligibility criteria.

Again, not that simple, people with Androgen insensitivity syndrome would have XY genotype, but no unfair advantage at all, there are phenotypical males with XY chromosomes (the usual) that have lower testosterone levels than female athletes. The eligibility criteria, to be valid, needs to be based on objective parameters of advantage/fairness, not on invalid surrogates based on limited understanding of the physiology and convenience.

The eligibility criteria, to be valid, needs to be based on objective parameters of advantage/fairness, not on invalid surrogates based on limited understanding of the physiology and convenience.

Well, whatever they did in these olympics certainly wasn't good.

Disqualifying the XYs would have made this tournament fairer.

Well, whatever they did in these olympics certainly wasn't good.

Disqualifying the XYs would have made this tournament fairer.

Because you can guess chromosomes and assume unfair advantages based exclusively on how a person looks like? That is not a good argument against the need to actually prove advantages and decide fairness before making decisions.

I mean you just keep assuming the situation of the athletes and even worse assuming the effect it would have on fairness without making any actual argument to defend those assumptions. According to your "aspect as proof of everything" more than half of the participants on events depending on strength should be disqualified just because they apparently don't conform to your personal idea of how a woman must look and that is somehow automatically an unfair advantage.

And blood test all of the teenage daughters before competition? I guess it could work, but some will object.

If you are born with a penis, you compete with the men.

And as frequently happens, oversimplifying a problem until the representation becomes false does nothing to solve it, in fact this also frequently becomes a problem on its own because the solution proposed (even worse, implemented) do not apply to the actual problem, only to the false oversimplified misrepresentation of the problem.

As a father with a daughter, I wouldn’t want to see her compete with any man that has a penis, hermaphrodite or not, let alone shower with her.

Men do not compete against women on these sports.

So men are banned from competing against women in these sports?

If you are born with a penis, you compete with the men.

Sorry but empty appeals to authority from anonymous accounts are too obviously invalid to be taken into account. Present solid evidence that contradict the scientific consensus or else it is still a much better source of knowledge than prejudice and outdated concepts from nameless people on the internet.

As a father with a daughter, I wouldn’t want to see her compete with any man that has a penis, hermaphrodite or not, let alone shower with her.

And your personal preferences about how you would like to see your daughter compete and shower (?) are your own, but are completely unrelated to the topic of the article.

So men are banned from competing against women in these sports?

Are you so surprised to find out the measure you proposed to solve the problem was already in place? or is it that you are still trying to define gender according to personal preferences in opposition to the scientific consensus.

Well, whatever they did in these olympics certainly wasn't good.

Disqualifying the XYs would have made this tournament fairer.

Because you can guess chromosomes and assume unfair advantages based exclusively on how a person looks like?

Are you suggesting that it is only a coincidence that the 2 finalists are XYs?

Sorry but empty appeals to authority from anonymous accounts are too obviously invalid to be taken into account. Present solid evidence that contradict the scientific consensus or else it is still a much better source of knowledge than prejudice and outdated concepts from nameless people on the internet.

I still don't see it this way, no amount of deflection or censoring will change that. I am just glad I don't have to deal with that, our governor will never allow that.

And your personal preferences about how you would like to see your daughter compete and shower (?) are your own, but are completely unrelated to the topic of the article.

Wrong, it does affect her if she is in a school that pushes this and the girls are forced to share the woman's facilities with biologically born women.

Are you so surprised to find out the measure you proposed to solve the problem was already in place?

Where I live, yes.

or is it that you are still trying to define gender according to personal preferences in opposition to the scientific consensus.

No, according to what you were born with.

Are you suggesting that it is only a coincidence that the 2 finalists are XYs?

I am clearly telling you that pretending you can do karyotype based on how a person looks is not an argument.

I still don't see it this way,

But since you can't make any argument that could refute the scientific community of the world that is still completely irrelevant, if you choose to have a personal belief that is on you, but trying to impose that belief to others? that is invalid.

Pretending the scientific consensus depends on some imaginary censoring is not an argument either, it doesn't work for flat earther, so it does not work with people that think they can decide gender based on concepts from 2 centuries back.

Wrong, it does affect her if she is in a school that pushes this and the girls are forced to share the woman's facilities with biologically born women.

No, it does not, it only affects you. That was your "argument", that you would like to see your daughter compete or shower but only as long as it did not involve males, you can't make an argument about how other people feel, much less when you are trying to prove if that is valid or not. That is a double fallacy, by making an appeal of something being invalid about how you feel about it (instead of having a real argument) and even more, making it about how you say other people would feel about it.

Not to count that hoping your daughter do not share the shower with other women is completely outside of the topic of this article. That is about some exaggerated privacy beliefs.

Where I live, yes.

So where you live people propose "solutions" already in place for an existing problem and get surprised when that does not address the actual problem but an invalid oversimplification? That makes no sense.

Apparently where you live also makes people reply as if you were the user that made the question on the first place.

No, according to what you were born with.

Which again is an invalid appeal to a supposed authority, which is of course invalid. You can't impose personal beliefs, specially when the scientific consensus have already disproved them.

bass4funkToday 12:00 pm JST

And blood test all of the teenage daughters before competition? I guess it could work, but some will object.

If you are born with a penis, you compete with the men.

But if you read the article for a second you will see that that is not sufficient.

Are you suggesting that it is only a coincidence that the 2 finalists are XYs?

I am clearly telling you that pretending you can do karyotype based on how a person looks is not an argument.

Based on how a person looks? What are you talking about?

Based on how a person looks? What are you talking about?

That the only evidence you have presented of the claim is that you think so, that is not how the determinations work. You have yet to prove your claim that the 2 finalists are have XY chromosomes.

Trying to pretend you can do that just because the finalists don't look like you think women must look is obviously invalid and completely destroy your argument (no to mention that an advantage would still need to be proved, and more than than that the advantage is unfair).

One problem if having a fixed preconception that do not respond to logic is that people biased in this way end up never recognizing when those preconceptions are based on false premises.

That the only evidence you have presented of the claim is that you think so, that is not how the determinations work. You have yet to prove your claim that the 2 finalists are have XY chromosomes.

So you assumed I just made it up, based on how they look.

It is widely reported that they are both XY, if I recall correctly based on previous tests that disqualified them.

So you assumed I just made it up, based on how they look.

Since there is no evidence of this claim you repeating it would mean you made a baseless claim or that you based it on the information that you have, which is their aspect. I chose what I considered the less worse option but apparently it was not the case.

It is widely reported that they are both XY, if I recall correctly based on previous tests that disqualified them.

No, it is widely reported they were disqualified based on undefined tests made by a deeply corrupt body that was stripped from authority precisely for that corruption, nobody knows what the test were, how they were conducted nor the results since they were never reported either. The only thing known is that the disqualification was done to favor a Russian athlete that became champion because of it.

That is not evidence and definitely not of the specific claim you made, for all anybody knows the Russian measured the length of their eyelashes.

There is exactly zero mention of any chromosomes, much less evidence.

That said, the people who got all uppity about the boxer this Olympics were idiots, as she wasn't a trans woman.

That is correct but not in the way you meant. Not a trans woman but a man. A man misgendered at birth as female due to having a visible vagina but internal testicles and having XY chromosomes which is why "she" failed the boxing federation gender test last year. "She" didn't do anything wrong, was born that way.

This condition is extremely rare and yet 2 are in this years Olympic boxing. But some say there is no advantage... lol

No, it is widely reported they were disqualified based on undefined tests made by a deeply corrupt body that was stripped from authority precisely for that corruption, nobody knows what the test were, how they were conducted nor the results since they were never reported either. The only thing known is that the disqualification was done to favor a Russian athlete that became champion because of it.

Not exactly true. The boxing authority have stated the tests but not the results as this would be a breach of confidentiality. The corruption was financial and nothing to do with Russia except its president being a Russian national.

Mr KiplingToday 04:29 pm JST

internal testicles

Yeah, those would be called ovaries. There are also XY women who just have zero susceptibility to testosterone.

Mr KiplingToday 04:29 pm JST

A man misgendered at birth

So how about a blood test result to determine restroom access? Except for the fact that some couldn't use the urinals, would work perfectly.

That is correct but not in the way you meant. Not a trans woman but a man.

That would be false, not a man in any sense, this is just a false claim people are trying to push without any evidence to self justify discriminating people. Not to mention, between the scientific consensus of the world that say both are women and a nameless person on the internet claiming the opposite there is no real contest.

Can you provide the type of test done, how it was conducted and the results obtained? no? then why make claims that you can't prove? Choosing to believe a corrupt body that eliminated the competition of the Russian participant is bad enough (since it means you are actively looking to be manipulated) even worse is to make claims without evidence to help manipulate other people into making the same mistake.

This condition is extremely rare and yet 2 are in this years Olympic boxing. But some say there is no advantage... lol

The "condition" is to be so good at boxing that without eliminating them the Russian "champion" would not have won anything. That condition is correlated with performing well at the Olympics so there is nothing surprising about the whole thing.

Not exactly true. The boxing authority have stated the tests

That is wrong, the boxing authority said they conducted tests, but never stated what tests were done, they even repeatedly contradicted themselves concerning if testosterone levels were or not included in the test.

not the results as this would be a breach of confidentiality. 

Which makes no sense when (as this article clearly explains) testing only four of hundreds of participants in 2022 is a much more serious transgression to the rights of the participants, the obvious explanation is that the test themselves were invalid (or the contrary of what the IBA hoped they would say) so no information at all was given to avoid being caught too easily in a lie. They just did some undefined tests and declared the winners disqualified and the Russian a champion.

International Boxing Association president claimed that DNA test results had shown the two athletes have XY chromosomes, but that the results were never published.

I am clearly telling you that pretending you can do karyotype based on how a person looks is not an argument.

I disagree, that's what I am telling you.

But since you can't make any argument that could refute the scientific community of the world that is still completely irrelevant, if you choose to have a personal belief that is on you, but trying to impose that belief to others? that is invalid. 

Pretending the scientific consensus depends on some imaginary censoring is not an argument either, it doesn't work for flat earther, so it does not work with people that think they can decide gender based on concepts from 2 centuries back.

I understand, but you're not convincing me, so...

No, it does not, it only affects you.

No, it affects millions of parents, why do you think Glen Youngkin won in Virginia? A Republican winning a Blue state, now how can that be, because he ran on a platform that is just basic with the average parent and that is your kids belong to you, not the government and not to the medical industry for them to be experimented on and cut up like lab rats, very simple actually and won, something that Terry McAuliffe was running against telling parents they don't have the right to know what is being taught in schools that they had to butt out and let the teachers teach them what they want, even moderate Dems hated that, this is why he lost, so yes, it affects the average parent.

That was your "argument", that you would like to see your daughter compete or shower but only as long as it did not involve males, you can't make an argument about how other people feel, much less when you are trying to prove if that is valid or not.

I can make any reasonable argument I wish and you cannot stop me or say otherwise.

That is a double fallacy, by making an appeal of something being invalid about how you feel about it (instead of having a real argument) and even more, making it about how you say other people would feel about it.

Not to count that hoping your daughter do not share the shower with other women is completely outside of the topic of this article. That is about some exaggerated privacy beliefs.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it. I feel that you are making a very opinionated argument in agreeing that a transgender or biological man, in this case, has the right to be in the same changing room as a biological woman, and they don't. I wouldn't allow it and most people in my city would not allow it.

So where you live people propose "solutions" already in place for an existing problem and get surprised when that does not address the actual problem but an invalid oversimplification? That makes no sense.

The problem is resolved when the girls are protected and the transgender goes to the restroom that matches their sexual physical gender, it makes perfect sense.

Apparently where you live also makes people reply as if you were the user that made the question on the first place.

No, they just all have common sense, something that this country has lost since 2010

Which again is an invalid appeal to a supposed authority, which is of course invalid. You can't impose personal beliefs, specially when the scientific consensus have already disproved them.

I disagree, I think it is a very valid, open-and-shut case. My job as a parent is to protect my kids not to understand whether a transgender individual should have the right to change in the same room as biological-born women.

That's because some women, assigned female at birth and identifying as women, have conditions called differences of sex development, or DSD, that involves an XY chromosome pattern 

XY chromosomes? Then they are male and identify as men.

If they want to act as women, that's a different story.

So that means, I can identify as anything that I want.

Sure you can. And flip flop all you like as you usually do.

I don’t know if there’s a proper name for it and all yet, but I think we should call your condition ‘Twitter fluid/curious”

Go with the tweets! You can be all that they want you to be! Don’t stop believin’ !

So that means, I can identify as anything that I want.

To be fair, the XY chromosome carrying male actor Robin Williams did act and pretend to be a female in Mrs. Doubtfire.

So that means, I can identify as anything that I want.

To be fair, the XY chromosome carrying male actor Robin Williams did act and pretend to be a female in Mrs. Doubtfire.

You identify as all sorts; American voter, expert on UK premier league football, radical Jew, EDL sympathiser…lot of hats. (and passwords to remember)

Sure you can. And flip flop all you like as you usually do. 

I don’t that’s the thing.

I don’t know if there’s a proper name for it and all yet, but I think we should call your condition ‘Twitter fluid/curious”

If you like, go for it.

Go with the tweets! You can be all that they want you to be! Don’t stop believin’ !

Love the service and loved Steve Perry

Probably intersex, they should make a new category for them.

Probably intersex, they should make a new category for them.

I actually feel that this comment is progress.

If you carry the Y chromosome, you are a male.

If you don't, you are female

Please do some reading and find out what Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is. Someone with AIS can be genetically XY but born with full female features. They are XY but they are women in every other sense. Others can be born XY but have various mixtures of male and female genitalia. How is this possible?

Male or female, every fetus starts out in the womb with female genitals. For male fetuses there is a burst of androgen in the womb around 6 weeks into the pregnancy. That burst of androgen is what caused most male fetuses to lose their female genitals and gain male plumbing. But not always. A fetus with AIS, a genetic condition that occurs more frequently than red hair, can inhibit the ability of the fetus to respond to androgen in the womb. Some fetuses are completely insensitive and are born fully female but with no ovaries (they have what are called "smear gonads" where there should be ovaries and these are often removed to prevent cancer). Other fetuses will respond partially and those end up being born with any mixture of male and female plumbing imaginable. This is real life and it occurs more frequently than red hair. Babies with mixed up genitals have traditionally undergone a "sex assignment" surgery very shortly after birth and often the parents had no say in the surgery or what sex the doctors assigned. The doc could make your XY baby with mixed genitals a boy or girl depending on what the surgeon thought easier to do. Now the medical profession is leaning towards letting the kid grow up and choose a sex later.

Life is not binary nor is one's sex or sexuality. Real life, not ideology.

International Boxing Association president claimed that DNA test results had shown the two athletes have XY chromosomes, but that the results were never published.

So to back up a baseless claim you use another baseless claim? that is not a very strong argument.

I disagree, that's what I am telling you.

When you disagree with things that can be proved scientifically it means you are demonstrably wrong, even if you don't like it.

I understand, but you're not convincing me, so...

Irrational people that take pride on being irrational are not people to convince, but making obvious the irrationality of their position helps other understand why they are wrong and avoid making the same mistake.

No, it affects millions of parents

Millions of parents are not affected about how you like to see your daughter compete or shower, your only argument is a personal preference on that, so it only affects you.

why do you think Glen Youngkin won in Virginia

Not by publishing a scientific report, you are making two new mistakes here, one is pretending that if something becomes popular then it must be right or correct (which is nonsense) the other is that a full political platform can be simplified to a postiion on a single issue, as if that is the only thing a politician ever took a position on.

I can make any reasonable argument I wish and you cannot stop me or say otherwise.

The one stopping you is yourself when you try to make an argument from hearsay, and even worse by assumed hearsay, that is what makes that argument invalid.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it

Not an opinion, an argument and one that you have not demonstrated as invalid, which means it still applies and shows how yours is invalid. Your new fallacy is pretending a logical demonstration of the invalidity of your position is only an opinion (mostly so you can excuse yourself from addressing it). Running away from an argument means you are recognizing you have nothing against it.

The problem is resolved when the girls are protected and the transgender goes to the restroom that matches their sexual physical gender, it makes perfect sense.

The problem is positively resolved by addressing the transphobia, which is the position that can be demonstrated objectively and what the experts do recommend.

No, they just all have common sense, something that this country has lost since 2010

So you reply as if you were switching accounts because you have common sense? I guess it is not easy to find reasonable excuses.

I disagree, I think it is a very valid, open-and-shut case.

Only if you pretend to have authority on the field, which is obviously invalid, when the actual experts and authority on the subject say your position is wrong, and your only argument is that you really want to believe you are right without demonstrating it that means you are recognizing not having arguments except the desire to impose your personal opinion to others, which is not something you can do.

Y chromosomes? Then they are male and identify as men.

That is of course completely wrong, why make such obviously false claims? making fun of their situation for fun?

To be fair, the XY chromosome carrying male actor Robin Williams did act and pretend to be a female in Mrs. Doubtfire.

Which is not relevant to the situation of the article.

Probably intersex, they should make a new category for them.

Based on the word of a terribly corrupt body that used disqualification to crown a Russian athlete instead of the people that actually won? that is the opposite of "probably".

Or you mean probably because they look different from what a woman should look for you? that is still invalid.

International Boxing Association president claimed that DNA test results had shown the two athletes have XY chromosomes, but that the results were never published.

So to back up a baseless claim you use another baseless claim? that is not a very strong argument.

Why is it baseless?

As Mr Kipling said:

The boxing authority have stated the tests but not the results as this would be a breach of confidentiality.

The boxers are not part of a scientific study, so no need to publish the results or the methods.

Why is it baseless?

Becasue there is zero evidence about the kind of test performed much less the results. And since the IBA is having well described problems about rampant corruption (and a huge incentive for it to lie) the "Just trust me bro" argument is worthless.

The boxers are not part of a scientific study, so no need to publish the results or the methods.

But the testing authority still have to at least publish the kind of test they did and the result, specially when they already violated the human rights of the athletes by selectively testing only those that they needed to disqualify to crown the Russian boxer.

So, baseless.

So to back up a baseless claim you use another baseless claim? that is not a very strong argument.

I don't need to back up when you can physically see and read that this person was born a biological male based on having an XY chromosome.

When you disagree with things that can be proved scientifically it means you are demonstrably wrong, even if you don't like it.

Then that is what YOU think, I think differently.

Irrational people that take pride on being irrational are not people to convince, but making obvious the irrationality of their position helps other understand why they are wrong and avoid making the same mistake.

Well, if you think so, being irrational is what kept me out of trouble and alive.

Millions of parents are not affected about how you like to see your daughter compete or shower, your only argument is a personal preference on that, so it only affects you.

Yes, they are, the average normal person does not want to see their daughters in a room sharing it with a man who thinks he is a woman or doesn't physically show that he is a woman. Muslims wouldn't accept it, Orthodox Jewish people wouldn't, the majority of people in many far-off countries and villages wouldn't, I couldn't care less what radical progressives in the medical field think, most people on this planet tend to agree with me.

Not by publishing a scientific report,

Doesn't matter, even these liberal Democrats don't want this. Yes, it's that simple.

The one stopping you is yourself

No, it is these radical progressives that are trying to normalize this mess. So yes, my argument is on point and valid.

Not an opinion, an argument and one that you have not demonstrated as invalid,

You keep saying that and I keep proving you wrong.

The problem is positively resolved by addressing the transphobia, which is the position that can be demonstrated objectively and what the experts do recommend.

Ok, then do so, but at the same time, keep them out of biological women's sports and changing areas, I am willing to go halfway.

So you reply as if you were switching accounts because you have common sense? I guess it is not easy to find reasonable excuses.

No excuses are needed.

Only if you pretend to have authority on the field, which is obviously invalid, when the actual experts and authority on the subject say your position is wrong, and your only argument is that you really want to believe you are right without demonstrating it that means you are recognizing not having arguments except the desire to impose your personal opinion to others, which is not something you can do.

You are not saying anything, more garrulous banter, and it won't change anything, these are not just personal opinions, but the larger consensus that people want to keep the sexes separated.

>

I don't need to back up when you can physically see and read that this person was born a biological male based on having an XY chromosome.

You need it to demonstrate you are not wrong, by accepting you have no basis except your personal opinion that means the scientific consensus is simply more likely to be right and you are still demonstrated as wrong.

Then that is what YOU think, I think differently.

Since you can't make a logical argument to defend what you think this means that "differently" is how you define "mistakenly"

Well, if you think so, being irrational is what kept me out of trouble and alive.

It is what can be demonstrated, at least now you admit being irrational, people interested in the topic can now fully evaluate your opinions as irrational and avoid being misled.

Yes, they are

No they are not, your argument is still how you personally prefer to see your daughter compete and shower, that has no relevance on other people, of course you have no authority to define what other people want or not to see, and anybody that thinks differently would disprove this supposed authority automatically. Specially when you still have not disproved that your personal concept of gender is outdated, irrational and mistaken.

Doesn't matter, even these liberal Democrats don't want this. Yes, it's that simple.

You understand that with this your are conceding your argument is irrelevant, right? It is like quoting "not by telling the truth" and you saying "well, that may be but doesn't matter, it's that simple".

You keep saying that and I keep proving you wrong.

Proving would require arguments form your part, instead you just repeat the same claim without being able to defend it with any argument, that is not proving, is accepting you have no arguments for your position.

Ok, then do so, but at the same time, keep them out of biological women's sports and changing areas, I am willing to go halfway.

That makes no sense, if the problem can be demonstrated to be your attitude then there is no merit on "going halfway" by not addressing that problem and instead changing what is not one. You have accepted to have an irrational position, there is no benefit from anybody going into irrationality instead of doing what is actually better even for the transphobes.

No excuses are needed.

Using multiple accounts to comment is against the rules of the site, responding as if the other account indicates this is what happened, at least you are not trying to make excuses for this.

You are not saying anything, more garrulous banter

It is called using arguments, and they have been productive, you now recognize to have no basis for your position, that you are irrational about it and that nothing would change your opinion, even if you were demonstrated as wrong, that is a very productive thing that can clarify for other people the value of the opinions.

You need it to demonstrate you are not wrong,

There is a difference between a penis and a vagina and guess what, I figured that out in 1st grade, so I am right. Follow the science.

Since you can't make a logical argument

I just did, you got owned and with facts and logic.

It is what can be demonstrated

I have seen the naked body in all its glory, the facts are right there.

at least now you admit being irrational, people interested in the topic can now fully evaluate your opinions as irrational and avoid being misled.

Nothing irrational except for the people who agree with me which makes it 98%

No they are not, your argument is still how you personally

It is personal to me and millions of parents globally, we outnumber the insane, again, you failed as most libs do.

prefer to see your daughter compete and shower, that has no relevance on other people, of course you have no authority to define what other people want or not to see,

I can, so who will stop me? You? I can make any argument I want and the majority of people agree with me on this.

You understand that with this your are conceding your argument is irrelevant, right?

Nope, I am straight, no weaving or dodging, I am just calling it for what it is and nothing else.

Proving would require arguments form your part, instead you just repeat the same claim without being able to defend it

Again, I did so and I am doing it again.

That makes no sense, if the problem can be demonstrated to be your attitude then there is no merit on "going halfway" by not addressing that problem and instead changing what is not one. You have accepted to have an irrational position, there is no benefit from anybody going into irrationality instead of doing what is actually better even for the transphobes.

No, the left has pushed an irrational and indisputable decision on the public by using executive orders and liberal appellate courts to push a radical and frankly, extremely harmful and disturbing ideology forth

Using multiple accounts to comment is against the rules of the site, responding as if the other account indicates this is what happened, at least you are not trying to make excuses for this.

What in the world are you talking about? Not me, I have only one account here, always have. Weird! not sure where you got that junk from...

It is called using arguments,

But you are making weak opinionated liberal arguments, that helps no one. Your problem is, that you try to hard and do not make any sense, to say the least.

and they have been productive, you now recognize to have no basis for your position, that you are irrational about it and that nothing would change your opinion, even if you were demonstrated as wrong, that is a very productive thing that can clarify for other people the value of the opinions.

But I am not wrong, you are the wrong one.

There is a difference between a penis and a vagina and guess what, I figured that out in 1st grade, so I am right. Follow the science.

The scientific authorities can easily prove your simplistic, outdated and prejudiced concept of gender is wrong, following the science means you adhere by what the scientific authorities say about a topic. In this case following the science means accepting you are wrong.

I just did, you got owned and with facts and logic

The same as this comment, that is just repeating a baseless claim, implicitly accepting you have no fact nor logic to support the claim.

Nothing irrational except for the people who agree with me which makes it 98%

Baseless numbers pulled out of thin air are also irrational, can you find any institution of science that support your claim? no? that means it remains irrational even if you make a false appeal to popularity as an excuse.

It is personal to me and millions of parents globally

Generalizing your personal opinion without any basis is still not valid, much less as a way to prove you can impose that personal opinion, for that you would need objective arguments, of which you have accepted you don't have.

I can, so who will stop me? You? I can make any argument I want and the majority of people agree with me on this.

It appears you feel you can impose your opinion on others but that is not true. And by using this as an "argument" you are either delusional or obnoxious on purpose.

Nope, I am straight, no weaving or dodging, I am just calling it for what it is and nothing else.

Yes, no weaving or dodging, just accepting your argument is invalid.

No, the left has pushed an irrational and indisputable decision on the public by using executive orders 

Not irrational when it is based on the scientific consensus, which is the basic requirement for something to be imposed validly, with this you are accepting that the actual irrational side is the one refusing to accept the reality of gender.

What in the world are you talking about? Not me, I have only one account here, always have. Weird! not sure where you got that junk from..

I am talking about you responding to a reply made of a comment made by another user, as if you were using both accounts, then making excuses for doing that, now you say you did that by mistake which is fine as well.

But you are making weak opinionated liberal arguments

Not weak at all since they have made you accept you have no basis outside your own opinion, that you expect to impose this personal opinion unto others even if it can be demonstrated as wrong and that you are being irrational in a discussion because you have no argument to defend the validity of your position. The arguments used have a lot of power to do that.

But I am not wrong, you are the wrong one.

Reverting to kindergarten level is not really a strong rebuttal. But it helps a lot so other people can easily understand how little you value your own opinion.

International Boxing Association president claimed that DNA test results had shown the two athletes have XY chromosomes, but that the results were never published.

So to back up a baseless claim you use another baseless claim? that is not a very strong argument.

Why is it baseless?

Becasue there is zero evidence about the kind of test performed much less the results.

If they specify the test, and then disqualify a boxer based on that test, they would basically be telling us the results of the test, which may be a breach of confidentiality.

Do you have any evidence that, contrary to what has been widely reported, they are not XY?

Do you have any evidence the IBA president lied (other than he is Russian and the boxer who came in 3rd is also Russian)?

If they specify the test, and then disqualify a boxer based on that test, they would basically be telling us the results of the test, which may be a breach of confidentiality.

Which again is meaningless when they already made a travesty of the testing by selectively testing only four out of hundreds of participants, making the appeal obviously an excuse, that is like pretending to be innocent from domestic violence by calling the police after beating to death the victim since this supposedly shows consideration.

Do you have any evidence that, contrary to what has been widely reported, they are not XY?

Baseless claims are irrelevant, your argument completely depends on them being proved this, of which you have no evidence. By recognizing there is no evidence to prove the claim your argument falls, there is no need to prove anything else except the lack of evidence.

Do you have any evidence the IBA president lied (other than he is Russian and the boxer who came in 3rd is also Russian)?

You mean apart from the permanent ban it was subjected because of rampant corruption, the lack of any kind of transparency on the testing and the pinpoint discriminatory way the testing was performed?

Reading the article, where this is clearly described could have answered your question without problems.

Here the IBA clarifies why they had been disqualified:

https://www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

It includes this statement:

"These tests affect the private life of the person concerned and constitute medical information protected as personal data. We are not allowed to publish these documents without the agreement of the person concerned. However, both Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting received a copy of these tests, and they never disputed it. They know these tests exist and it is not fake."

"These tests affect the private life of the person concerned and constitute medical information protected as personal data. We are not allowed to publish these documents without the agreement of the person concerned. However, both Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting received a copy of these tests, and they never disputed it. They know these tests exist and it is not fake."

So, an organization banned from the games for rampant corruption made a severe transgression of the human rights of some of the athletes, then used the same human rights as an excuse not to publish any detail about even the kind of test that was conducted and as proof that the test were valid and that the people tested do not dispute them they offer their word?

It takes a very illogical process to accept an excuse that is self defeating, "we infringed on the rights of these people but to avoid infringing on their rights we will hide every single detail about how we did it, even those things (like the type of test) that are routinely disclosed by non-corrupt organizations". The only "signed" document they present is where they have to accept being disqualified.

Not to mention this actually proves that your claim that there is evidence that both women have XY chromosomes is baseless. The reason given on the reference is "hormonal imbalance" (without any detail about how this determination is taken).

If you bothered reading the IBA explanation, you would understand that they did not infringe on their rights.

"Following many complaints from several coaches, boxers agreed to gender testing. Blood sample collection was made on 17 May 2022. Sistem Tip Laboratory from Istanbul (License Number: 194-MRK) issued its report on 24 May 2022, after the competition ended. The laboratory detected results that didn’t match the eligibility criteria for IBA women’s events."

"At the next IBA Women’s World Boxing Championships 2023 in New Delhi, Khelif and Lin were tested following their consent again before their first fights. Blood sample collection was made on 17 March 2023. Dr Lal PathLabs from New Delhi issued its report on 23 March 2023. The findings were absolutely identical to the first test results."

If you bothered reading the IBA explanation, you would understand that they did not infringe on their rights.

Nothing in your quote refute this fact, targeted testing means they infringed on their rights, it was a forced requirement only for these women, not a random or general testing. That is completely, unequivocally a transgression of their rights, even if they were forced to accept in order to compete.

Combined with the multiple proved instances of corruption that ended up in the permanent ban of the IBA this makes for the "trust me when I hide every single detail of the process we followed to make our boxer a champion" a terribly poor argument. Not only they acted breaking the rights of the athletes, they are hiding the whole process and results in order to keep the excuse alive and then you expect people to just believe them when they claim nothing is wrong while giving evidence of wrong doing.

Not to mention this still proves that your claim that there is evidence that both women have XY chromosomes is baseless.

The scientific authorities can easily prove your simplistic, outdated and prejudiced concept of gender is wrong,

Not in the simplistic form. That is another strike.

The same as this comment, that is just repeating a baseless claim,

Now you are just wriggling like a fish caught up on dry land.

Baseless numbers pulled out of thin air are also irrational,

Right back at you.

Generalizing your personal opinion

Not just my opinion, the majority of the world’s, that’s strike 2

It appears you feel you can impose your opinion on others

I do not, but you most definitely do.

And by using this as an "argument" you are either delusional or obnoxious on purpose.

Right back at you.

Yes, no weaving or dodging, just accepting your argument is invalid. 

I feel the same about your argument

Not irrational

No, very irrational

I am talking about you responding to a reply made of a comment made by another user,

I opined on a public site, that is more than enough

as if you were using both accounts, then making excuses for doing that, now you say you did that by mistake which is fine as well.

I didn’t, I just told you the truth.

Not weak at all since they have made you accept you have no basis outside your own opinion,

Not just my opinion.

that you expect to impose this personal opinion unto others even if it can be demonstrated as wrong and that you are being irrational in a discussion because you have no argument to defend the validity of your position. The arguments used have a lot of power to do that.

Reverting to kindergarten level is not really a strong rebuttal.

Then don’t do it. That’s strike 3.