Shutdowns are a uniquely American drama − in the UK, it's just not Parliament's cup of tea

Gee, it's almost like the writer doesn't understand that the U.S. has a constitutional republic system with divided branches of government that are supposed to serve as checks and balances.

Unlike parliamentary systems where the ruling party in Parliament has the right to select the Prime Minister, and, thus, ram through whatever bills it wants to, unless such bills are too controversial for even its own party.

I mean, you would think the write would understand this very basic point. And while he acknowledges it, it is almost as though he considers it a bad thing

But this is where he betrays his politics.

I promise you that if it were rightists / conservatives in power and the leftists / liberals were using the powers of Congress to prevent the passage of bills they didn't like, he would be extolling the virtues of American government's system of checks and balances.

The truth is that this writer, most academics and most journalists love democracy so long as it further their ideological goals. But the moment they have control of government, they will brook no opposition and demand the right to do whatever they want.

In the end, leftists / liberals are totalitarians. They want it their way and they want the right to crush anyone that is in opposition to them.

But this is where he betrays his politics.

I don't see that. The article is simply describing the differences between the budgetary systems of the US and the UK.

Gee, it's almost like the writer doesn't understand that the U.S. has a constitutional republic system with divided branches of government that are supposed to serve as checks and balances.

Unlike parliamentary systems where the ruling party in Parliament has the right to select the Prime Minister, and, thus, ram through whatever bills it wants to, unless such bills are too controversial for even its own party.

I mean, you would think the write would understand this very basic point. And while he acknowledges it, it is almost as though he considers it a bad thing

But this is where he betrays his politics.

I promise you that if it were rightists / conservatives in power and the leftists / liberals were using the powers of Congress to prevent the passage of bills they didn't like, he would be extolling the virtues of American government's system of checks and balances.

The truth is that this writer, most academics and most journalists love democracy so long as it further their ideological goals. But the moment they have control of government, they will brook no opposition and demand the right to do whatever they want.

In the end, leftists / liberals are totalitarians. They want it their way and they want the right to crush anyone that is in opposition to them.

I seriously couldn't agree more.

Unlike parliamentary systems where the ruling party in Parliament has the right to select the Prime Minister, and, thus, ram through whatever bills it wants to

I don’t get the ‘thus’ here. Why does the capacity to choose the Prime Minister lead to the ability to ram through a bill?

Also, you are being too simplistic here. There are checks and balances on parliament and to different degrees depending on the type of parliamentary system you are talking about.

In the end, leftists / liberals are totalitarians. They want it their way and they want the right to crush anyone that is in opposition to them

This reads like ending an e-mail with ‘If I can be of further assistance…’ Just standard rightwing North American podcast hysterics.

This reads like ending an e-mail with ‘If I can be of further assistance…’ Just standard rightwing North American podcast hysterics.

No, he's pretty much spot on, really.

In the end, leftists / liberals are totalitarians. They want it their way and they want the right to crush anyone that is in opposition to them.

That is why the ones derailing the US budget negotiations, the 'Freedom Caucus' are imperiling the nation's business over things like restricting reproductive freedom and demonizing immigration. Because xenophobia and misogyny are so anti-totalitarian.

The US needs to do away with it's duopoly and have some real leftist rep like Independent Bernie Sanders

The UK seems to have us beat in this regard with more prominent leftist voices.

A very small number of GOP right-wingers are holding the country to ransom and backtracking on agreements.

The UK seems to have us beat in this regard with more prominent leftist voices.

True, but after the thrashing under Corbyn, I think Starmer is trying to do what Blair did with his left wing - basically treat them as mascots.

That is why the ones derailing the US budget negotiations, the 'Freedom Caucus' are imperiling the nation's business over things like restricting reproductive freedom and demonizing immigration. Because xenophobia and misogyny are so anti-totalitarian.

A bit different, injecting too much emotional opinionated politics, doesn't help your argument.

The US needs to do away with it's duopoly and have some real leftist rep like Independent Bernie Sanders 

That's never going to happen and as bad and pathetic as the Democrats are, even they won't go along with a socialist (who's greatly benefited from the Capitalist system) won't happen.

The UK seems to have us beat in this regard with more prominent leftist voices.

That's the UK, they can do what they want, if I wanted my country to be like the UK I would move there.

A very small number of GOP right-wingers are holding the country to ransom and backtracking on agreements.

NO, the majority of them are finally doing what they had promised to do if elected and that is to stop the spending, so I applaud the Republicans that at least tried, even if they don't succeed in the end, their determination and efforts are what makes them worthy to be called conservatives.

NO, the majority of them are finally doing what they had promised to do if elected and that is to stop the spending,

Wrong and delusional. alternative 'facts'.

They oppose welfare to the public and support for education but lavish corporate welfare on themselves and cronies and cut taxes on the ultra wealthy while lecturing other on spending.

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-rips-republicans-over-ppp-loans-student-loan-forgiveness-2022-8

No other country has this legislation because it's so stupid and pointless. The US has no problem issuing debt -- US treasuries are seen globally as the world's most reliable risk-free security, and investors around the world are more than happy to buy them.

Thus the US will never have problems paying its debts, unless these sequester folks want to create such problems for political - as opposed to fiscal or economic - reasons.

The US system is quite broken when it comes to some things, like budgets. Most western democracies do not have the US problem, as they are set up better than the American version. Most operate as the UK does and have no shutdowns due to disputes. Those in power control the budget and frequently when power goes to the opposition, their budgets reflect their policies for the duration of their term.

The US system is unique and nor replicated by anyone I am aware of, but then Americans like to do things "their way" even if it costs them more. They could clean up their system and operate much more efficiently but choose not to. Freedom of choice in action.

All a bit of a sideshow really, a promotion of clowns as the main act.

Sadly a lot of ordinary folks will suffer so it's not really a laughing matter.

The American system - from the complicated electoral processes to the abnormal status of the president to the powers of opposition to the politicization of everything from candy to the media to the police to ....everything, all adds up to a system thats creaking and will probably start croaking in the future.

This debacle of withholding funds due to citizens is hardly representative of a democracy - more a show of demise-cracy.

The US system is quite broken when it comes to some things, like budgets. 

The US is broken, period.

Two contentious issues, illegal immigration and abortion, have divided the country.

It’s mind boggling to think that about 10,000 people per day swarming over the border day after day after day is sustainable.

Northern states and cities proclaiming to be sanctuaries have done a quick about face after getting a tiny fraction of the number southern states have to tolerate. NYC has about one day of illegal immigrants and the place is freaking out, while the southern states have to allocate money from state taxes for a situation they have no control or authority to regulate.

That’s how the Civil War started. Northern states and the federal government placing tax burdens on the south that didn’t apply to the north.

It’s time to speak the truth. The US is in a civil and cultural war today and the federal legislative system doesn’t work with that fog covering the nation.

Nations only survive when people have common goals. There is no guarantee the US will be around forever in its present form. The odds are against it.

Wrong and delusional. alternative 'facts'.

No, nothing delusional about the skyrocketing debt, nothing delusional about how this admin thinks we have an inexhaustible amount of cash to throw around.

They oppose welfare to the public and support for education

No, they are against out-of-control limitless entitlements, as for education, the burden should never be on the taxpayer, I paid my way, I worked and went to school, I was responsible for myself and no one else should share that burden.

but lavish corporate welfare on themselves and cronies and cut taxes on the ultra wealthy while lecturing other on spending.

Then talk to your fellow Democrats and tell them to open up Matha's Vineyard and take in and help all the homeless and needy people because they have the money and they care since they are the elite and the people they vote for are the uber-elite.

bass4funk

No, they are against out-of-control limitless entitlements, as for education, the burden should never be on the taxpayer, I paid my way, I worked and went to school, I was responsible for myself and no one else should share that burden.

You paid your own way through private school and then university without any help from your well-off parents? You worked while at secondary school.

No, nothing delusional about the skyrocketing debt, nothing delusional about how this admin thinks we have an inexhaustible amount of cash to throw around.

Why didn't this concern you when the previous admin was spunking $8 trillion of your money? Trump spent $150 million of your hard earned cash on golf for Christ's sake. Where were you then?

Do you only get fiscally conscious during Democratic presidencies?

You paid your own way through private school and then university without any help from your well-off parents?

You worked while at secondary school.

Yes, and yes.

Why didn't this concern you when the previous admin was spunking $8 trillion of your money? Trump spent $150 million of your hard earned cash on golf for Christ's sake. Where were you then?

No more than any other President who takes time off, I don't begrudge them for that, but the point is and to answer your question, I elaborated that point earlier today on the other world thread concerning the government shutdown

Do you only get fiscally conscious during Democratic presidencies?

If they go ballistic on the spending the way this admin has, then of course. Again, I outlined that earlier as well for reference.

If they go ballistic on the spending the way this admin has, then of course. Again, I outlined that earlier as well for reference.

But Trump blew through more than Joe, no? You are being childish and unfair.

No more than any other President who takes time off,

$150 mill!!! On golf! in 4 years! Obama spent half as much in twice as long and you all went mental about it.

I stick by this;

"Do you only get fiscally conscious during Democratic presidencies?"

bass4funk

You paid your own way through private school and then university without any help from your well-off parents?

> You worked while at secondary school.

> Yes, and yes.

Wasn't it illegal in your country for children to work? You said you spent your childhood in Germany. Did you work and pay your pay there too?

How did you work full-time and attend school? What kind of work did you do?

Excuse me if I don't believe a word of what you stated.

No, they are against out-of-control limitless entitlements, as for education, the burden should never be on the taxpayer, I paid my way, I worked and went to school, I was responsible for myself and no one else should share that burden.

But your MAGA heroes, Gaetz and MTG, oppose student loan forgiveness but got loan forgiveness for their businesses. Robbing Peter to pay Paul to use your cliche.

https://www.wfla.com/hill-politics/white-house-calls-out-greene-other-gop-critics-on-how-their-own-loans-were-forgiven/

Fact.

This hypocrisy and fake GOP fiscal responsibility is why the only administration to get a budget surplus was Clinton. Which he did by cutting welfare benefits which I disagreed with but this surplus was quickly squandered by GOP administrations with massive tax cuts for the rich.

The GOP cannot talk about fiscal responsibility, only hypocrisy and dysfunction.

ClippetyClop

what kind of family would allow their child to work and pay their way through a private school? What kind of private school would accept a student without the means to pay the fee unless awarded a scholarship?

Isn't this just my way or the highway? In the end the debt ceiling will be raised right? Does the debt ever decrease YOY in the US?

Sorry tldr;

What kind of private school would accept a student without the means to pay the fee unless awarded a scholarship?

Hogwarts probably.

Actually, I think tuition and boarding are free.

But Trump blew through more than Joe, no? You are being childish and unfair. 

Well no, that is absolutely not true. Of course, Biden spent more in the almost 4 years he has been in office.

$70 billion of aid to Ukraine since the war with Russian started But now these crazy people want to send $20 billion more of our money, but they completely ignore the homeless and the vets in our nation, kick out elderly disabled vets to house illegals, absolutely disgusting this admin. And that's just the war, there is infrastructure, the wall, the cost to taxpayers keeping the borders open despite what that idiot Myorkas is and continues lying to the people, over $2.6 trillion in New Entitlement Program Spending almost 20% of the total federal and it goes on and on, we didn't even touch on healthcare, open borders etc, so, of course, Biden outspend Trump, that's not even a debatable argument

No more than any other President who takes time off,

$150 mill!!! On golf! in 4 years! Obama spent half as much in twice as long and you all went mental about it. 

Ok, and? Compared to how this current President has and continues to spend our money, small change when you think about it.

Wasn't it illegal in your country for children to work?

No, I was 18

You said you spent your childhood in Germany.

Yes

How did you work full-time and attend school? What kind of work did you do? 

In the States where I attended University

Excuse me if I don't believe a word of what you stated.

That's OK, I couldn't care less whether you do or don't, you asked me a question and respectfully I answered.

Trump spent $8 trillion.

But your MAGA heroes, Gaetz and MTG, oppose student loan forgiveness but got loan forgiveness for their businesses.

Which is different from voluntarily entering an educational tax-funded facility by choice.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul to use your cliche. 

No, because I chose not to be a burden, so I waited until I had the cash.

This hypocrisy and fake GOP fiscal responsibility is why the only administration to get a budget surplus was Clinton.

Yes, but the economy was different, back then the Dems weren't THAT crazy when it came to spending and they also had traditional Democrats, they didn't have anti-American radical socialists in their ranks

Which he did by cutting welfare benefits which I disagreed with but this surplus was quickly squandered by GOP administrations with massive tax cuts for the rich. 

He also limited entitlements, there were no heavy wars and we didn't have millions coming across the borders

The GOP cannot talk about fiscal responsibility,

Yes, they can, that is what they are trying to do now and remember, never met a liberal that didn't love a tax hike.

bass4funk

I paid my way, I worked and went to school, I was responsible for myself and no one else should share that burden.

So it wasn't your private school. You paid your way through university. Universities are not free and most students do just that. Some have scholarships.

Trump spent $8 trillion.

Biden surpassed that while adding another $31 trillion to the ND

You paid your way through university.

Yes

Universities are not free and most students do just that. Some have scholarships.

That’s what I have been saying.

We all know the answer to that. 

Uhh, no, no you don’t know, you don’t know anything about me, but I appreciate the emotional care though.

Lol! The other day the speeding ticket for which he somehow spent 30 days in gaol was suddenly 'expunged'.

Yes

He does tie himself in such awkward knots with his inveterate fibbing

No, he doesn’t, don’t know you, don’t care about you, no reason to lie, none, I’m not Joe.

bass4funk

Trump spent $8 trillion.

> Biden surpassed that while adding another $31 trillion to the ND

Maths wasn't your best subject at school then. How did Biden add $31 trillion to the ND?

ROFL

Biden has added $2.5 trillion to the ND compared with $8 trillion by Trump.

Trump spent $8 trillion.

Biden surpassed that while adding another $31 trillion to the ND

Bass, you’ve completely misunderstood the numbers.

If I were you, I’d just say I got it wrong and call it quits.

You aren’t doing yourself any favours here.

Maths wasn't your best subject at school then.

I think it’s the other way around.

How did Biden add $31 trillion to the ND?

Sine January 20, 2021, our national debt reached $27.76 trillion. Fast forward a year, and the total public debt of the U.S. government has surged by almost $2.11 trillion, marking a substantial 7.6% increase to reach $29.87 trillion, and guess what, it’s not slowing down, it’s picking up at an astounding and unsustainable rate.

Bass, you’ve completely misunderstood the numbers.

No, Jim, I did not

So, you are sticking with Biden adding 31 trillion to the debt.

Okay.

Fast forward a year, and the total public debt of the U.S. government has surged by almost $2.11 trillion

Wouldn't that be adding $2.11 trillion, not $31 trillion?

How do your figures add up to the $31 trillion you claimed? 

The ND under Trump increased by 33%. So far under Biden the increase is 8.8%.

Joe is not finished with his Presidency yet, you claim you’re not dumb, if that is the case and you can add. Then don’t forget to add the cost of the open borders, Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year each so that’s what now? Close to 20 million at the moment, but wait, it gets better. We owe $19.1 billion to the Federal reserve, and then there’s Individuals and institutions we owe $38.2 billion, so Joe is getting there and will surpassed Trump.

bass4funk

How do your figures add up to the $31 trillion you claimed? 

> The ND under Trump increased by 33%. So far under Biden the increase is 8.8%.

> Joe is not finished with his Presidency yet, you claim you’re not dumb, if that is the case and you can add. Then don’t forget to add the cost of the open borders, Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year each so that’s what now? Close to 20 million at the moment, but wait, it gets better. We owe $19.1 billion to the Federal reserve, and then there’s Individuals and institutions we owe $38.2 billion, so Joe is getting there and will surpassed Trump.

You have failed to explain as you claimed that Biden has increased the ND by $31 trillion.

Biden is three-quarters into his term.

so Joe is getting there and will surpassed Trump.

So you admit that Trump added more to the national debt than Biden. Bravo.

If Joe has added $31 trillion, how much more than $31 trillion did Trump add?

How is that big, deep, silly hole fitting you?

If other Republicans do math like Bass

This is not an exclusively US-American phenomenon, though. I for one am a huge proponent of introducing a basic arithmetic captcha with voting ballots.

You have failed to explain as you claimed that Biden has increased the ND by $31 trillion.

No, you’re just not using your brain again.

Biden is three-quarters into his term

And the spending continues…

If other Republicans do math like Bass, it's no wonder they destroy the economy with every one of their presidents.

The economy is pretty much destroyed and who’s in charge? The ice cream man.

So you admit that Trump added more to the national debt than Biden. Bravo.

That’s not what I said.

How is that big, deep, silly hole fitting you?

What hole? You mean the hole the Dems dug themselves in which got Nancy fired. I’m sure she likes the fit.

Which is different from voluntarily entering an educational tax-funded facility by choice.

Add English, logic and rhetoric to maths as subjects exhibiting serious deficiencies.

Gaetz and MTG when getting PPP loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars for their businesses and having them forgiven and the tax payer footing the bill were compelled to accept the money?

The FC are logically bankrupt and only have thick-headed evasion as a tactic.

bass4funk

you posted Biden added $31 trillion to the ND. But fail to explain.

Sep. 30 11:33 pm

"Biden surpassed that while adding another $31 trillion to the ND"

Add English, logic and rhetoric to maths as subjects exhibiting serious deficiencies.

Now, now no need to flog yourself, I accept you as you are, faults and all.

Gaetz and MTG when getting PPP loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars for their businesses

And?

and having them forgiven and the tax payer footing the bill were compelled to accept the money? 

Compared to how many millions of kids that chose, NOT required to advance their education.

The FC are logically bankrupt and only have thick-headed evasion as a tactic.

I doubt it.

bass4funk

the figures you posted are nowhere near $31 trillion. If like you said Biden added $31 trillion the current ND would be $60 trillion.

"Biden surpassed that while ****adding another $31 trillion to the ND"

I already did

Bass, I really think you should stop with this line of argument.

Your own quotes disprove that Biden added 31 trillion to the debt.

You are smashing yourself in face with a frying pan.

Let it go mate.

Compared to how many millions of kids that chose, NOT required to advance their education

Somehow kids in circumstances where it is difficult to pay for inflated college tuitions are the same as congresspeople(Gaetz/MTG) using loans meant for small business hurt by the pandemic to line their pockets and be subsequently forgiven and paid by the public.

MAGA mind budget negotiations at their finest.

the figures you posted are nowhere near $31 trillion. If like you said Biden added $31 trillion the current ND would be $60 trillion.

Give it time, not that far off.

bass4funk

Give it time, not that far off.

do you realise what you are posting.

Somehow kids in circumstances where it is difficult to pay for inflated college tuitions are the same as congresspeople(Gaetz/MTG) using loans meant for small business hurt by the pandemic to line their pockets

Line their pockets. Maybe you should look at this President when you say that, then you’d be on the right track.

and be subsequently forgiven and paid by the public.

Yes, unlike kids that make a choice to further their education and then demand that the taxpayer pay billions for these kids?

MAGA mind budget negotiations at their finest.

Says the people that push for kids to take out loans that a huge portion will never pay back.

Trump spent $8 trillion.

Biden surpassed that while adding another $31 trillion to the ND

Sine January 20, 2021, our national debt reached $27.76 trillion. Fast forward a year, and the total public debt of the U.S. government has surged by almost $2.11 trillion, marking a substantial 7.6% increase to reach $29.87 trillion

Mmmkay.

Why didn't this concern you when the previous admin was spunking $8 trillion of your money? Trump spent $150 million of your hard earned cash on golf for Christ's sake. Where were you then?

This shows how the non-Americans lack basic understanding of the US in general.

During the first part of a president's term, they operate under the previous president's budget.

And out of the top 5 presidents who contributed the most to the debt percentage-wise, Trump is not included.

Do you know who is? Obama.

So the national debt growing in Trump's first year of office was beyond his control and was part of the failed Obama legacy. The foreign far-left extremists need to look at history beyond the last two presidents.

Do you know who is? Obama.

8 years is more than 4 years and there was the huge mess to clean up from the previous administration.

8 years is more than 4 years

Yep, so Obama had more time to try and get things in order.

He didn't. He made things worse. Which is why percentage-wise he is one of the top 5 ALL -Time presidents who increased the debt.

and there was the huge mess to clean up from the previous administration.

Yes, Trump was saddled with the mess leftover from Obama. And percentage-wise, Trump was more efficient than Obama.

https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

He didn't. He made things worse.

Um, Obama left office with the highest approval rating of any outgoing president in modern history.

And let's not forget, Obama got the white house in the thick of a financial collapse, and left it with record low levels of unemployment, and an economy that was roaring along. After giving the people healthcare.

Let's try to go total extremist, mmkay? Maybe stick with reality this time?