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The Tiger Woods brand will bounce back

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of course it will in one year from now all this will be forgotten!!! "This too shall pass away"

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I see in the news this morning his wife is filing for divorce. Think it is going to take her a bit longer to get over this.....

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"But Risa Tanaka, the managing editor of branding magazine Senden Kaigi, said it would take Woods a long time to recover in Japan." I have lived here a number of years,and I have seen that the japanese have very short memories regarding scandals,they forgive easily and quickly.ie:Politicians,Celebrities,Sportsmen and women,so I don't think Tiger Woods ability to market a product will be affected.Personalities around the world get rich because the advertising media need them to sell their products,and if a personality is news ,then the advertisers will be queing up to have them onboard.He might have shown everyone he wasn't perfect,but as a golfer he reigns supreme and that is fact.

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I have seen little evidence that this is even on Japanese radar.

Stubbs, who said Woods’ wife has become the “shining star” of the saga in Sweden,

If it were an American woman in another country going after her husband with a golf club for anything other than self-defense, I would be simply embarrassed.

“People will struggle to look at him as a role model to represent good business decisions

The fact that they did not struggle to look at him as a role model before the scandal just goes to show how stupid and gullible people are. All they really knew about Tiger Woods is that he plays a game extremely well.

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Yes,but tainted and the fear of pissing him off is gone forever.

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cracaphat: Yes,but tainted and the fear of pissing him off is gone forever.

Tainted? Fear of pissing him off? You live in a funny little world! This could actually improve his sales appeal in the long run, because for all the phoney moralizing and things going on, in their souls most people are jealous. It was jealousy that made them tune in to Tiger for his golf, jealousy that led the attack charge, and jealousy that will make them tune into the ladies man once the phoney outrage wears off.

And no one feared pissing him off. There might have been some respect though. And that is the best reason to keep their own tongues from wagging. I can only hope respect will prevail again soon.

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of course it will in one year from now all this will be forgotten!!! "This too shall pass away"

Somehow, I don't think it will. The scandal has been pretty firmly imprinted.

Will he recover? To some degree no doubt. If his game doesn't suffer certainly his sports related sponsors won't go. The non-sports sponsors, and the casual fans who checked our golf because of him...well that's more difficult. The problem being the scandal isn't really over yet. Woods hasn't even been put through the wringer that will be his return. One can only hope he handles that better than he did "the crash"...

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Agree with minello7. It'll definitely pass away. Japanese women in general tolerate affairs and flings more than Western women.

People are forgiving of sexual scandals-look at Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, and numerous star athletes.

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"Athelete of the Decade." It doesn't sound like his popularity is going to suffer too much.

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As long as he continues to play well and back the records he was on schedule of doing. Nothing will really change as far as his golf career is concerned. He break those records he will still go down in history as the best golfer. The memories of his infidelity won't be in the record books. People have short memories.

He has prenupt with his wife. He is a Billionaire. She has to be married for ten years to get 20 million from the divorce. That is chump change for him. If he decides to give her a little more when or if she leaves it won't be skin off his back. The lawyers have his money taken care of.

Whether people like him or not should be irrelevant if he and his family is already financially secure.

Now when it comes to having a good relationship with family from this point is another matter. If wants to be married then he has to stop the cheating plain and simple. He also needs to regain the trust of his family. If wants to continue to play the field then get divorce. Then he can spank it up, flip it, rub it down all he likes.

Tigers problem's:

1)He is a 33yrs old and the world's first Billionaire athlete.

2)He is Black/etc(minority) considered by many to be the best ever in a sport which in the past was entirely exclusive to White Elitist men.

3)Women especially White women with questionable morals are throwing themselves at him(minority)and he is making the most of it.

The majority of the folks who are ranting about him now didn't like him before. Now they have reason to say...see I told you so. They are just jealous because of Tiger's problems I have stated above. Just like those two no named unsuccessful golfers who tried to talk smack about Tiger behind his back. They would kill to be in his shoes and many others would too. Like Serena Williams incident,if he wasn't a successful minority but White athlete then there would not be so much hooplah from the mostly conservative critics. The critics who are not very friendly with minorities and don't mind when White government officials skip work using government funds to have an excursion with their Argentinian mistress. No punish just dont' do it again, OK? We are all human and are weak sometime. Double standard!

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They are just jealous because of Tiger's problems I have stated above

Yes, it's a real shame when "the little people" get to speak up. Great people like Woods should be exempt from criticism.

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Junnama,

Yes, it's a real shame when "the little people" get to speak up. Great >people like Woods should be exempt from criticism.

Criticism is one thing but putting someone else up to completely different standards is another thing. Especially when the same critics turn a blind eye to their peers mistakes. It is not the criticism it is the hypocrisy!

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ironchef

People are forgiving of sexual scandals-look at Kobe Bryant, Michael >Jordan, and numerous star athletes.

Babe Ruth!

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Criticism is one thing but putting someone else up to completely different standards is another thing.

I keeed, but seriously Woods was held to a different standard from the begining. He has received special treatment in a positive sense for years, which has been obvious to anyone looking. Now it works in reverse and folks are up in arms!?!

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@Junnama

Yes, he does get special treatment sometimes. No arguing with you there. The same special treatment any successful, rich or famous person receives. Whether it is right or wrong is a different conversation. If this is so he should receive the same criticism as such. He is is not.

We are arguing two different things. You believe I'm complaining about the criticism. I'm not. What I am complaining about is people believing he should be kicked out of golf like Serena Williams and tennis. Or all his money should be taken away. He should be hurt. These are things are mostly being said. Or describing it as if no one has ever done this before. That is the hypocrisy, jealousy and racism I speak of.

I'm not saying you but it has been posted here somewhat and on other websites.

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Ah, Ok agreed then...we are talking about different things.

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If he gets divorced, who will have custody of the kid?

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If he gets divorced, who will have custody of the kid?

The news media.

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He should be exempt from criticism about his family and social life. However, criticize his golfing all you like.

Some of you talk like we should have cameras in house or access to his hard drives. He is a famous golfer, nothing more, and nothing more was advertised. If you invented more, that is your problem and its not up to us or the media to pander to your foolishness, nor should Woods be crucified for it.

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This should make golf more popular to minorities. Look at all the white babes they can get when they become as good as tiger. Oh wait, I wonder how many vijay is getting. or.. or ... hmmm, this is a sport for white guys after all.

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He should be exempt from criticism about his family and social life. However, criticize his golfing all you like.

What about criticism of his inability to manage a scandle, and his selling of a false image of "who he is" to the public for years? Are those fair game?

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“Nobody just writes people off like that.”

His wife sure as hell did. Tiger isnt out of the woods yet.

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@Crawf100

This should make golf more popular to minorities. Look at all the white >babes they can get when they become as good as tiger.

It isn't just White women who sleeping around with celebrities. They have whole countries in Asian, Africa and South America that celebrities are flying to meet the Natives. Most of the sex tourism is majority Caucasians. Does that send a message get a passport and you can minority women too. Rush Limbaugh got busted coming from the Dominca Republic. If that was the case as you say then what would that say about White women's morals when it comes to celebrities? Tiger has a preference or his environment dictated the type of women he had to choose from for his infidelity. Maybe a little of both. Comedian Chris Rock undoubtedly put it best when he said, "A man is only as faithful as his options." And few men have the sexual options of the most famous athletes in the world.

Groupies are groupies and like most famous/successful athletes (except for Hank Aaron), Tiger got caught up. Now he needs make things right with his family. After that get crackin' on breaking some records and take his rightful place as one of golf's greatest.

Tiger Woods wrote: "Personal sins should not require press releases and problems within a family shouldn't have to mean public confessions."

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Yes, 30061015, I sense that she could have given him a bit more chance to do the reaffirmation thing he was begging for. But her mother was probably leaning on her to make the break and collect the money.

We don't really know what's going on in there. The majority out here seem to be taking her side. There are countless possibilities in any relationship, ask any counsellor; my post is here to help redress the balance of possibilities a little, that is all.

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I just passed through Los Angeles International Airport, and his advertisements are still plastered all over the place (Accenture adds). No money to take them down?

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Shinjukuboy,

Accenture just dropped him for the sake of saving face. They won't remove his advertisement despite saying so publicly. They will wait and milk it then renegotiate his deal at a discounted price. The rest will comeback slowly but also not publicly.

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Junnama: What about criticism of his inability to manage a scandle,

It depends on the scandal. Handling of a golf scandal (our business) is ok but a sex scandal (not our business) is not.

and his selling of a false image of "who he is" to the public for years?

This one keeps coming up. You say he sold a false image. How? Is it in a slogan, or a commercial you saw? Was there an interview where he was asked how he felt about extramarital affairs and gave some answer contrary to what he did? How did we get to this false image accusation? Did you expect him to tell us all at every interview? Did you expect him to say "I have had three mistresses since I got married, I have a mole next to my right testicle, and I prefer pink nipples to dark." Did you honestly expect something like that? There are lines in this world and you are on the wrong side of one. People's sex lives are not our business unless they volunteer the info with permission of those involved.

I will let you in on a secret. People who have extramarital affairs don't tell about them as a rule. Did you know that? Its standard. The affairs are generally not designed to hurt spouses, neighbors or you. But we hide them because they might. Whatever you think about his affair(s), hiding them was the proper thing to do. Exposing it (them) was highly immoral and the act of real and media harlots. Even if you think affairs are oh so bad, there was a chance his wife and kids would never have found out and been happy all their days if silence had been maintained. Those who opened their mouths should be at least as ashamed as Tiger. Those who support the rumor mill also should feel plenty of shame. Forget about Tiger. You can't control him. But you can control yourself, and you should. That is how it works in the adult world, and you got to be immature to think otherwise.

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This one keeps coming up. You say he sold a false image. How?

Tiger has sold his image as a "good guy" for years. Commercials, TV appearances, interviews, magazine articles, you name it. I'd name one but they're all that way. Tiger is on the practice range, dedicated to growing the game, at home with his wife being "boring". What do you think Accenture's slogan "be a tiger" means? "Perfection and Integrity". That sums up the old Woods image to a tee.

I let you in on a secret "good guys" don't cheat on their wives (unless their wives were ok with it and Tiger's wife clearly is not). Tiger could have been a "good guy" with "perfection and integrity" being the way he really is but he chose to get married. At that point he's not a "good guy" anymore and he's putting out an false image.

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Tiger has sold his image as a "good guy" for years.

Says you, but you are not very specific about that.

What do you think Accenture's slogan "be a tiger" means? "Perfection and Integrity".

The most specific you get and case in point that you see what you want to see. I made no guesses about Tiger Woods off the golf course. Only a fool would. "be a tiger" to me means to be aggressive. Maybe you think a tiger is cute and playful. I think they are deadly predators that take what they want and they don't care about your opinion. Even if it was "be a Tiger" as in Tiger Woods, I would say it means to be a winner. It says nothing to me about marital fidelity.

You see, unless they actually say "perfection and integrity" they did not say it. Even if they did, those words mean different things to different people, too. Again, nothing to me about marital fidelity. You only have yourself to blame for assuming those ads had anything real to do with Tiger Woods personal life off the golf course.

I let you in on a secret "good guys" don't cheat on their wives

Your opinion and totally unrelated to the point. None of the advertisements said Tiger Woods followed your personal opinion of what a "good guy" is. I doubt they even used the words "good guy". The false image is the one in your own head wrecklessly generated by yourself. The only one who deserves to be pillaried is you and anyone else taking umbrage at bland adverts as if you were cheated. You look for any means to attack Tiger to take the sting out of your own foolishness. Its rather pathetic.

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Regardless of whether his indiscretions will be forgotten or not in Japan, most people around me are either laughing or disgusted.

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You see, unless they actually say "perfection and integrity" they did not say it. Even if they did, those words mean different things to different people, too. Again, nothing to me about marital fidelity. You only have yourself to blame for assuming those ads had anything real to do with Tiger Woods personal life off the golf course.

I tell ya numbskull, when I took debate in college there was a hard, fast rule that when you got down to saying things like "That's just your opinion", "People can take words differently" or "Well you don't really know because you weren't there". The profs stopped things because the person who's saying that has lost.

Anyway, since no matter how much is written about Woods' image and brand and how pretty much no one seems to have been confused about what it was, you're going to say "that's just opinion. I didn't see it that way". I don't know what is the point but consider a few things:

Try Google searching and tell me what page you get to before you find something that doesn't say Woods had a "clean, wholesome, or something to that effect" image. But hey I'm sure that's just their opinions.

Woods' favorability rating (in polls) fell over 50% since the revelation of his "transgressions". But I guess those people only have themselve to blame for putting Woods on a pedestal and wrecklessly generating false images in their head.

Integrity means adherence to a strict moral code. Anyway, I'm sure morality and honesty are completely unrelated.
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Try Google searching and tell me what page you get to before you find something that doesn't say Woods had a "clean, wholesome, or something to that effect" image. But hey I'm sure that's just their opinions.

It IS. You have accused Woods of "selling a false image." That is a quote. Yet you have no quotes to back up what you say. It does not matter if the whole freaking northern hemisphere THOUGHT he had the image of marital fidelity. It only matters if he himself created the image. He did not. You cannot find any proof whatsoever that he created that image, so if he had it, somebody is guity. Every person who held that image! So why do you persist? Bitterness that's why! But not bitterness towards Woods really. Its bitterness toward yourself for being such a complete fool! Face it.

Woods' favorability rating (in polls) fell over 50% since the revelation of his "transgressions". But I guess those people only have themselve to blame for putting Woods on a pedestal and wrecklessly generating false images in their head.

No need to guess! They did, they totally did. I don't give a crap what their "opinion" is. Either there is proof he did or there isn't. Are you actually so naive as to think that a trial of public opinion is remotely fair or worth mentioning on the point I have made? You need proof son, not mass opinion.

Integrity means adherence to a strict moral code. Anyway, I'm sure morality and honesty are completely unrelated.

He may have lied to his wife, but he never lied to you! This "poor little me!" crap is really pathetic. Buck up princess! You are not married to him. You can go find a new hero whose marital fidelity you can worship. And if and when he fails to live up to his imaginary promises to poor little you, you can just go off and find another!

And please give one of your professors a call and see if they thought the words "Be a tiger", or the non-quotes perfection and integrity in any way imply marital fidelity. You should just be thankful I have allowed you the luxury of thinking so and not calling you a complete idiot. I doubt your professors would be so merciful. So give them a call. What you don't seem to realize is they would have indeed stopped this debate long ago, right when I asked you for proof and you failed to deliver.

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Numbskull:You sound like one of Tiger's enablers in your stalwart,but flailing defence of him.How you can deny he was not portraying being a family man,a false image,including that last interview in Oz,shows how much you are in denial. His wife bailed him out by choosing to divorce him,so he can come back next month,though tainted.Somehow you cant be reading the real world news because he IS damaged goods till proven otherwise. But if he wins, say the Masters and beats up everyone like before in 2010,he will get back most of the respect,but like you and I too,we ALL have secrets.But everyone knows his.

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Word now is that his wife is divorcing him saying that Tiger will not change. She would know for sure.

Tiger is hosed. He has already lost $70 million a year in endorsements. He has zero credibility any longer. He is now in the same league as Pete Rose and OJ in terms of falling from great heights to the lowest of lows. Amazing he thought he could live a double life. He must in the end hate himself to live as he did.

Apparently Tiger was chasing porn stars as well. Thats wholesome.

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Tiger will return back into the fold again without doubt. We've been innundated with his scandals in the news so much that I believe we are innured and now looking beyond his character flaws, viewing him for what he is without detriment to his marketing power. Public and fans will always gravitate toward winners. I confess, I'm one of them and hope he smokes the forthcoming tournaments with a vengeance in his customary way. His stigma will remain for life, but as long the public is aware of this, they will be more accepting.

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numbskull -- your rants are getting really tiresome. Mainly because you have no facts to spupport your statements. The biggest fact so far is what I stated yesterday -- Tiger's popularity took a record plunge, from 85% favorable to 33% favorable in a recent pole by USA Today/Gallup, and his unfavorables are up to 47%. Now he may bounce back, as you suggest, but the only thing for certain, is that the public has turned sour on him. Also, according to ABC News, his #1 public, his wife, has decided to file for divorce. That could make things even worse for him.

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herefornow: your rants are getting really tiresome. Mainly because you have no facts to spupport your statements.

This guy actually expects me to prove a negative. Then he hands me opinion polls! Its up to you to prove that Tiger created a false image of fidelity in order to sell products. You could sift through slogans or interviews to try and do that. Perhaps you did, and that explains why you are so bitter?

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cracaphat:Somehow you cant be reading the real world news because he IS damaged goods till proven otherwise.

Gee, I don't remember saying his reputation wasn't damaged. Of course it is! What I said was that the image of him being faithful to his wife was not actively created by himself. He had a reputation he never deserved in the first place and one he never actually sought. Anyone who assumed he was faithful to his wife is a fool. And anyone asking me to prove what he didn't do is double the fool.

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cracaphat:How you can deny he was not portraying being a family man

The question is: How can you prove that he WAS portraying a family man in the sense that he portrayed an image that he has sex only with his wife? Do you think a man who sleeps with other women never hugs his kids? Doesn't love them? Doesn't love his wife? If you do, those are your misconceptions to cherish. You cannot blame Tiger for your being a fool. I wasn't fooled. I wasn't surprised. Why is that? Because I don't jump to conclusions about the private lives of famous people I never met, that's why. These scandals break again, and again, and again, and apparently, you have not learned a single thing.

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It's all the sponsorship. They think they're entitled to a claim on his morality. He's a big prize winner. If he lived on that alone, his private affairs would'nt matter as much. You don't need to be a saint to play in a tournament, do you?

I don't want to know about his personal business, to be honest.

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numbskull -- do you bother reading the news or any other posts? Or even taking a breath? At least three news sources, including two of the U.S. TV networks, are reporting that his wife is 100% going to divorce him. I assume that even you can figure out that this means he wasn't much of a husband or father, despite all the PR to the contrary. I mean, who knows best whether it was real or image that his spouse?

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herefornow: I assume that even you can figure out that this means he wasn't much of a husband or father, despite all the PR to the contrary.

What sponsorship? Be specific. What billboard, slogan, or interview gave you the impression he was a model husband or father? What did you buy thinking that you could become such a model husband or father in the same vein as Tiger for having the product?

do you bother reading the news or any other posts? Or even taking a breath?

Irrelevant!

At least three news sources, including two of the U.S. TV networks, are reporting that his wife is 100% going to divorce him.

It is possible the media circus is more at the heart of that than his affair(s). You and everyone who thinks you have a right to this sort of meddling should hold your heads in shame.

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Busy today, but for you numbskull. Guess were this is from:

Dear friends,

From early childhood, I dreamed of being the world’s best golfer. I worked hard and applied my family’s values to everything I did. Integrity, honesty, discipline, responsibility, and fun: I learned these values at home and in school, each one pushing me further toward my dream.

It was over 10 years ago that my father and I began with the idea of bringing our family motto of “caring and sharing” to the rest of the world. In those days, we traveled the country holding junior golf clinics and encouraging kids to dream big and set specific goals to make those dreams a reality.

Throughout the years, I’ve had the opportunity to meet thousands of children across the country, and all of them share one common bond: they all dream about their futures. As a result, I learned that success on the course was only part of what I wanted to achieve. In 1996, my father and I established the Tiger Woods Foundation to inspire youth, because I believe in passing on the values I received from my parents and teachers.

I can proudly say more than 10 million young people have been touched by the Tiger Woods Foundation. Through character development programs, scholarships, grants, junior golf teams, and the Tiger Woods Learning Center, the Foundation is helping young people reach their goals.

Please take a look around our website and learn more about our programs and events, the young people we’ve worked with and the sponsors who make it all possible. Thanks for visiting. I hope you’ll join us as we work to make a real difference for millions of kids.

Sincerely,

...........

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Junnama: Busy today, but for you numbskull. Guess were this is from:

Why it looks like its from Tiger Woods! And he is.....not selling anything there! Nor is he making money! Nor did he say anything about marital fidelity! Nor is marital fidelity relevant to anything in there. Nor has a lack of marital fidelity itself taken away any of those grants, scholarships or things learned in the programs.

If information on his affair(s) did, then so would information about his sex life with his wife you know. I think you might have frowned on that sort of information being spread before his affair(s) were found out.

But you really don't care about the 10 million kids touched by the foundation. All you care is to salve your jealousy of Tiger Wood's sex life and you want to use me for target practice. I hope that one day you will grow up enough to face yourself and correct your selfish way of thought. If the Tiger Woods foundation disappears, it won't be because of his cheating. It will be because of the media circus. This is known because it all went on while he was cheating. The trouble started after his relationship with Grubbs ended. And know that you supported the circus and therefore, you supported all the things will come of it.

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Image!!!

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that's too bad.. im planning to market something like...

"take out a Tiger in you, this year of the tiger"...

なくなっちゃった。。。。

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Oh and I am glad of the TW foundation. Tiger has tried to be a role-model his whole career. You're the one who for some bizzare reason keeps denying it (LOL).

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All you care is to salve your jealousy of Tiger Wood's sex life and you want to use me for target practice.

Oh and be serious. Jealous of someone's sex life? I do live in Japan you know!!

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Tiger has tried to be a role-model his whole career.

I still await the proof of that. I think it is more like he allowed himself to be, although I don't know how its avoidable when people hound you. Even rejecting sponsorships would not necessarily work. Your citing of the Woods' promotional whatever came after he was already set up as a role model and had so much money that he could start the foundation. But he surely never set himself up as a model of fidelity in any case nor did his sponsors. If you took any of it as proof of marital fidelity, particularly when the promotion you cite is for a children's foundation, then clearly you have sex on the brain for some reason, and that is a terrible place to have it.

I will explain this again: even philanderers have morals, integrity, love for their wife and love for their children and even children not their own. If infidelity clashes with your images of morals, integrity and love, this is in your head and Tiger Woods is not responsible for it. You may keep that image if you wish, but I strongly suggest you do not allow the act of extramarital sex or any sex taint your images of the virtues of morals, intergrity and love. Sex is not that major in the grand scheme of things, but if you make it so, it reveals something about you.

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Tiger has tried to be a role-model his whole career.

Crap. Before you get confused I know he was a role model, even if I think it was idiotic for people to see him as one. What I have an issue with is the idea that he was trying to be a role model of marital fidelity. There is no evidence he was trying to do that at all.

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The only proof you would take is straight from Tiger's mouth and he's never said it. Oh wait he has (LOL):

"I think it's an honor to be a role model to one person or maybe more than that. If you are given a chance to be a role model, I think you should always take it because you can influence a person's life in a positive light, and that's what I want to do. That's what it's all about.”

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If infidelity clashes with your images of morals, integrity and love, this is in your head and Tiger Woods is not responsible for it.

I think it clashes with his wife's. Maybe Tiger has never said though he would put his wife and family' wishes first. Oh wait he has (LOL):

"Family always comes first. It always has been in my life, and always will. I may sleep a little bit less, and we have to work on that as a team."

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Junnama: Tiger has never said though he would put his wife and family' wishes first. Oh wait he has (LOL):

LOL all you like. The word "wishes" was not in the quote, nor was it implied. You are trying way to hard to make your case, and it shows.

And, as for the other quote yes he did say it was an honor to be role model. But he still did not claim to be a role model of fidelity, nor did he imply that. He also did not claim to be a man gives his wife hard sex if she likes it. But if she does and he does, does that mean he is a role model for hard sex and he should talk about that with the kiddies? Of course it not. Its no more our business than his affair(s). Its not appropriate conversation.

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He's lost a fan in me. Anyone who will cheat on their wives in such a fashion is not worthy of trust. I was a Kobe Bryant fan until he did his cheating deed some years ago.

He and his brand may bounce back, but he will forever be linked (no pun intended) to his many mistresses and cheating ways...

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Boys will be boys.

But he lost me when I found out he was basically paying Elin to be his wife. Lump sum after 10 years. What's up with that?

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What it ultimately boils down to is that the public are more interested in scandals than anything else. Once Tiger Woods name leaves the headlines and a new scandal surfaces such as “Brad goes behind Angelina’s back and has an affair”, the public while dive head first into this next ‘Huge’, ‘Earth-Shattering’ scandal and Woods will be old news. It’s just the way it is and always has been.

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numbskull -- Why can't you simply accept the fact that Tiger is not the person he willingly portrayed himself as? Doesn't make him any less of a great champion. But, does make him a whole lot less marketable/valuable as a spokesperson, as TAG Heuer stated today, particularly among women.

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He'd be a great spokesman for mattresses.

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herefornow: Why can't you simply accept the fact that Tiger is not the person he willingly portrayed himself as?

Because he IS the person he portayed himself as, as much as anyone IS what they portray themselves as! He never said he was faithful to his wife, not to you or the public anyway. If you thought he was, it was in your own head. Accept it and move on.

But, does make him a whole lot less marketable/valuable as a spokesperson, as TAG Heuer stated today,

Apples and oranges. Tag Heuer is temporarily pulling his ads from one country and one country alone: the United States of Puritanism, land of the imaginative sucker.

particularly among women.

I don't think Tag Heuer said that. And if you think Woods is less popular among women for this, you should start learning some things about women. (Hint: they often tell hardheaded insistent men precisely what they want to hear. If you come down on Tiger, they will pronounce him a walking crap hole for you, but if he walks into the bar they will be bucking to be on his arm when he walks out.)

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You are trying way to hard to make your case, and it shows.

Too hard? I barely had to look for these quotes. I could dig much deeper into his interviews and find much better stuff if I wanted.

I'll try to find the one you really want: "Be a Tiger, don't cheat on your wife."

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I think all this media attention on Tiger just makes him more appealing to women. If so many women want to have sex with him, he must be good at 'driving'!

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If you have enough money you can do anything you want. Hopefully he doesn't end up like Tyson. Anyway I'm still a fan of both of them.

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Junnama: Too hard? I barely had to look for these quotes.

Its not the quotes, its the way you willfully add words that are not there in your attempt to spin them. Are you playing dumb or just plain dumb?

I'll try to find the one you really want: "Be a Tiger, don't cheat on your wife."

I can only hope that wild goose chase will absorb literally all of your time.

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I think you're talking about yourself. The moving position "No, that's what I meant style", " I want specific statements that I get to interpret the meaning" style of discussion is tedious and intellectually lazy.

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But in short, the problem is both you and Tiger have trouble understanding what it is you're committing to when you marry someone.

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"And if you think Woods is less popular among women for this, you should start learning some things about women."

Most insightful post here.

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Junnama:But in short, the problem is both you and Tiger have trouble understanding what it is you're committing to when you marry someone.

I don't recall the vow that I would welcome media attention to my personal life. Not sure if Tiger took that vow either.

You do realize that is my paramount problem here? It does not matter all that much where you stand on the meaning of marriage (although I think you place way too much emphasis on sex rules that I am not really sure are set in stone even in the marriage vows you seem to think are standard). What matters is that people somehow think they have a right to know these details about Tiger. I can't even agree with that when someone is an elected official, but Tiger Woods is most certainly not even that.

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Junnama: The moving position "No, that's what I meant style", " I want specific statements that I get to interpret the meaning" style of discussion is tedious and intellectually lazy.

What is tedious is such a bland accusation without any specifics. Its possible I may have contradicted myself on some small point, but the core of what I am saying has not changed. I find it more likely you just cannot fathom my moral code. I am all good with extramarital affairs so long as the spouse comes first and the utmost care is exercised. But expecting a man of such wealth and fame to stick to his wife? That is the act of a glutton for disappointment. Its sheer folly, on both your part and Elin's if she actually expected that. At this juncture, I tend to think that what pissed her off was the media attention, but that might be giving her more credit than she deserves.

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What matters is that people somehow think they have a right to know these details about Tiger. I can't even agree with that when someone is an elected official, but Tiger Woods is most certainly not even that.

I totally agree with this, but I think his wife has the right to have Tiger stick with her. You can define marriage how you like, but this couple had clearly made a commitment to be monogamous, and he clearly didn't keep his commitment. His wife, not anyone else, has a right to be angry. A commitment is a commitment, no matter how famous you are.

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