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Were they a threat? Police shootings reignite legal debate

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By ALANNA DURKIN RICHER and CLAUDIA LAUER

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Blake did not have a knife. Pellerin did. But nowhere in the Constitution does it say street executions are O.K.

In fact, the Constitution expressly spells out that due process is required. Yet far too Americans many are blood thirsty psychopaths.

No wonder America has the most pandemic deaths.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

I've continually argued that far too many Americans die at the hands of police. It's a violent society. You're less likely to be killed by police in Columbia, Angola, Sudan, Rwanda, Mexico, Swaziland...

However, for every Black person killed by police, five White people are killed by police. I've never seen a single demonstration or story about that.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

And how many white people were shot? Oh wait, that doesn't fit anyone's narrative so it doesn't matter.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

American cops are out of control. They think they are above the law, and whose to say they are wrong?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

A 17-year-old white youth armed with a rifle killed two demonstrators, then walked toward the police, who did nothing. He was eventually arrested after he returned home, in a neighboring state, after the media raised questions about why he was allowed to do what he did, without consequences.

Meanwhile, unarmed black men and women are almost routinely executed by police. This is not to say that all police are bad, but too many of them are.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

@1glenn; At the time, he walked towards police with his hands raised high and off his weapon and the police at that time had no knowledge that the person walking towards them had any involvement in the shooting and was legally carrying. So they had no reason at the time to arrest him or shoot him. Police don't just go around shooting people walking down the street. They shoot when you ignore their commands and reach for a weapon.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

A 17-year-old white youth armed with a rifle killed two demonstrators, then walked toward the police, who did nothing. He was eventually arrested after he returned home, in a neighboring state,

He was in Kenosha for his job as a lifeguard. He didn't come there with a gun. He was asked to help protect a minority owned business. The business was owned by Indian immigrants who arrived with nothing and worked menial jobs to eventually build up their car dealership - which was destroyed by "demonstrators."

He was attacked as he tried to protect the business, by brick, skateboard and gun. The mob was after his blood. All three of those grown men shot had violent criminal records - one was a pedophile.

Now CNN is busy smearing the boy, and may end up paying his more than they had to pay the last teenager they smeared, Nick Sandmann.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

I don't care about the histories of the people shot by Kyle Rittenhouse. I watched some videos of the shootings. The point is every single one of them chased at close proximity or rushed the armed teen threatening violence along with a mob of people doing the same all from different directions. The point is not their history. The point is their complete and utter stupidity in the moment rushing and chasing a a clearly armed individual apparently thinking they will respawn in video game land after the shooting.

About the only way to find any sort of fault with Kyle Rittenhouse is the fact that he came from out of state, put himself in the position of guarding a place a teen has no business doing, and to critique whatever events led to him getting chased by the first guy he shot. But that's going to be minor compared with people on his heels who will likely kill or maim him if they can catch him.

That was self defense and he shot them face to face. The cops shooting Jacob Blake in the back 7 times wasn't. Two totally different situations.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Now CNN is busy smearing the boy, and may end up paying his more than they had to pay the last teenager they smeared, Nick Sandmann.

Nick Sandmann wasn't smeared. He and his racist unchristian friends did it to themselves. He sued those networks by crying like the wuss he is. He was practically stealing money, which isn't 'Christian'. Now this past week he appeared at the RNC, shilling for the antichrist Trump. His hypocracy is plain to see.

And the same is for this violence-mongering 17 y/o punk. CNN isn't smearing him either, his own rotten nature and actions speak volumes, just like Nick Sandmann.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

And the same is for this violence-mongering 17 y/o punk. CNN isn't smearing him either, his own rotten nature and actions speak volumes, just like Nick Sandmann.

This is partially true. There are elements of George Zimmerman to Kyle Rittenhouse in the initial set up and for that set up, but are wannabe militarized police idiots. Both were obviously seeking trouble and found it and both need to be condemned for it. The difference is that George Zimmerman closed the gap to kill someone and Kyle Rittenhouse was clearly doing his best to get the hell away. Watch the video "every angle" within the page from the link below. Kyle is a little fascist punk but the people he shot left him zero choice.

https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/kyle-rittenhouse-charged-homicide/

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

 zero choice

Zero excuses. His disgusting attitude makes him deserving of the trouble he gets into right from the start.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Every use of a gun needs to be accompanied by a video clip, even if by another officer. The victim is dead. The officer will say as he wants; no one is there to stop him.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

commanteerToday  09:48 am JST

He was in Kenosha for his job as a lifeguard. He didn't come there with a gun. 

Ah yes he shot them with his semi-automatic fingers. He was chased by the mob with a skateboard a hand gun after he had killed the first guy, they were trying to disarm him. The guy with the handgun could've shot Kyle in the back as he was running away i'm sure.....but didn't.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Basically America is really screwed.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

He was in Kenosha for his job as a lifeguard. 

Wow, so not only did he murder two people with a gun and maim another, but by skipping out on his job as a lifeguard he also endangered the lives of kids and adults in a swimming pool who could have drowned without the necessary aid! This guy is a piece of work. Thanks for bringing another of his failings to our attention.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

He was chased by the mob with a skateboard a hand gun after he had killed the first guy, they were trying to disarm him.

They were not pleading with him to drop the gun and he was not randomly firing at people. They charged him from various angles while there was shouting and shooting going on. Rushing him was dumb as bricks. He was trying to get away from both the first man he shot, and the ones after too.

You don't attack people from behind that are only running away especially if they are armed and you aren't.

Prosecutors in South Carolina agreed to drop murder charges against former North Charleston police officer Michael Slager as part of a plea deal in the 2015 fatal shooting of unarmed Walter Scott.

Its crazy that he went to jail on a civil rights violation only. You don't shoot people in the back that are only running away.

officers saw Blake holding a knife and made multiple requests for him to drop it but he was uncooperative.

And then magically this knife disappeared and later re-appeared in the car.

You don't shoot people in the back just because you suspect they are armed where you cannot even see.

I sense a pattern here. Americans are acting like dogs that chase and bite you for turning your back. Animals.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Ah yes he shot them with his semi-automatic fingers. He was chased by the mob with a skateboard a hand gun after he had killed the first guy, they were trying to disarm him.

The first shooting is also on video (a different one). That too was self defense. One thing I find truly awful is how most media make it sound like he just showed up with the weapon and shot into a crowd of peaceful protest.

Basically America is really screwed.

Certainly screwed if Trump loses the election. If the dems win, their marxist communist revolution will only get much worse.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Who would want to do a police officers job, not the privileged people shouting on here, but who do they cry to for help when someone steals their e bike or their gold plated Starbucks coffee cup, or smacks them for being so rich and entitled

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I keep seeing gun owners or NRA members in America saying that good guys need guns to counter the threat of the bad guys with guns. Kyle had already shot someone dead, someone who threw a plastic bag at him, so now the guy with the hand gun who chased a murderer down the street is the bad guy because he's not a republican???

America will fall on it's own hypocritical sword.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Kyle had already shot someone dead, someone who threw a plastic bag at him,

Watch the video. He didn't just throw a bag at him. He ran towards Kyle and attacked him. Kyle was backing off and eventually shot him. Kyle was the "good guy with a gun."

I watched the videos, and all three victims got what they deserved. And so did Blake.

When you have these "protests", where rioters are violently destroying property and injuring/killing people; one must be a complete idiot to attack someone with a gun. I guess they got used to attacking cops who have been ordered not to respond.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

From my experiences in civil rights demonstrations in the 1960s, I learned that a few bad cops can change the mood among peaceful demonstrators. It is not easy to stay calm and peaceful when being beaten up by cops with billy clubs, and tear-gassed. Bad cops will too often do this, just because they can do it and get away with it. After a few days, back then, I did see outside people come into the area whose one goal seemed to be to cause and get into trouble. Things would not have escalated to that point if the law enforcement personnel had been better trained and supervised in the first place.

That said, videos are powerful evidence. It is not likely that the armed 17-year-old would have been killed, and thus he was not justified in killing others. If the only thing that kept him alive was his action in killing others, then why were not more people who were not armed killed? He may have felt in fear of his life, but not justifiably so. It is more likely that the 17-yer-old panicked. It is also not surprising that a teenager without training or supervision would get into trouble in that situation.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That said, videos are powerful evidence.

Your first paragraph was so spot on. But the second? Did you see the videos? People have been killed by being beaten with less than a skateboard.

First he was outright running from a man behind him WHILE he himself was clearly holding a rifle. Its natural to assume that person chasing you is armed because WHO is going to chase you down while you are clearly armed with a rifle?? And if that is not enough for you, what if you let that person over-power you and take your weapon? I can agree that Kyle Rittenhouse never should have been there armed, but welcome to America. He WAS there and he was running away as well he should have been. The idiot who chased him down basically committed suicide.

From there more people chased him, this time while someone else was shooting somewhere. This time while one is wielding a skateboard as a weapon. Now its even worse because they could easily incapacitate him with the skateboard, take his gun, and murder him. Or, he was about to get shot because of all that shooting.

"Not likely to be killed"? I don't know how you figure those odds but "not likely" is just not good enough. Its not the way self-defense rules work, nor should they.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

About the only way to find any sort of fault with Kyle Rittenhouse is the fact that he came from out of state, put himself in the position of guarding a place a teen has no business doing, and to critique whatever events led to him getting chased by the first guy he shot. But that's going to be minor compared with people on his heels who will likely kill or maim him if they can catch him.

He was looking for an excuse to kill black people. Don't be so naive and don't excuse his butchery. He was out for blood. He was enthusiastic about it, posting right after his first killing. It is what he came to Kenosha to do.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

He was looking for an excuse to kill black people.....He was enthusiastic about it, posting right after his first killing.

Maybe. He is a Blue Lives Matter idiot after all. But I don't see any links or quotes from you proving what you said though. Why is that?

Besides which both the dead men were white.

Believe me, I have no love for this punk. But being a Blue Lives Matter idiot or white supremacist idiot or an idiot hoping someone stupid rushes him, does not mean anyone can hand him a valid excuse on a silver platter and then whine to take the excuse away after. He could have screamed racial epithets and flipped people off while clearly holding that gun but it still would not mean they get to rush him and do whatever to him and he cannot shoot them in self defense. In his shoes I have no doubt more people would have gotten shot at even if I missed them all. He wasn't going ape. He showed restraint in a situation where he seriously could have died. A situation I again point out he was literally running from.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Maybe. He is a Blue Lives Matter idiot after all.

Respecting cops is a bad thing?

Believe me, I have no love for this punk. But being a Blue Lives Matter idiot or white supremacist idiot or an idiot hoping someone stupid rushes him,

The kid wanted to get away that was his hope.

He was looking for an excuse to kill black people.

You have proof of this?

Don't be so naive and don't excuse his butchery. He was out for blood. He was enthusiastic about it, posting right after his first killing. It is what he came to Kenosha to do.

Just ludicrous to the max.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Respecting cops is a bad thing?

Respect has to be earned. I have seen enough in my life, some of it personal first hand experience, some of it was San Diego cops roughing up and arresting shipmates who did absolutely nothing wrong (they even threatened an Admiral and our squadron CO who were in uniform when they complained to the cops about the rough treatment including throwing a pilot through a hollow core door and threatening his wife when she objected to the treatment, and oh there was another pilot face down on the floor handcuffed being beaten with night sticks) so I have my reasons to not automatically respect cops.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Respect has to be earned. I have seen enough in my life, some of it personal first hand experience, some of it was San Diego cops roughing up and arresting shipmates who did absolutely nothing wrong (they even threatened an Admiral and our squadron CO who were in uniform when they complained to the cops about the rough treatment including throwing a pilot through a hollow core door and threatening his wife when she objected to the treatment, and oh there was another pilot face down on the floor handcuffed being beaten with night sticks) so I have my reasons to not automatically respect cops.

Respect goes both ways, I’m from the Inland Empire hour and a half North and I can’t tell you how many times cops were instrumental in aggressively going after gangs like The Crips and Bloods, 18th street and MS-13 never had a problem and always welcomed their hard work and effort which are the vast majority of cops, there are definitely some people that shouldn’t be on the force let alone own a firearm. I would always give them the benefit of a doubt, have a brother that’s a cop and lot of friends that are cops and now I can see as clear as day what happens when we don’t have cops and that’s societal breakdown which is what we are seeing on TV daily and the judging by the begging of the public the majority of people want and need cops.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Nick Sandmann wasn't smeared. He and his racist unchristian friends did it to themselves. 

Of course he was smeared - just like you smeared him now. (Not very Christian of you.) CNN didn't pay out millions to him for nothing. On one side, we have the decision of the court. On your side... we have your personal opinion.

He was practically stealing money, which isn't 'Christian'. Now this past week he appeared at the RNC, shilling for the antichrist Trump. His hypocracy is plain to see.

AntiChrist? Does the fringe left suddenly believe in God?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Respect goes both ways,

No it doesn't. A cop's job is to begin with respect to all citizens and maintain that as much as possible. Current police training goes totally against that and acts as if the cop's job is to protect their own life and dignity before a citizen's. This only ensures that cops are not respected, as well it should.

Anyway Blue Lives Matter is not about respecting cops. Its about worshiping American cops and their power trips and propping up myths of them having a horrifically dangerous and difficult job while ignoring the lack of training they receive, defunding of social services which made their job harder, and the literally evil and bad training they receive in lieu of enough proper training.

Its just like Trump really. Set them up to fail, then complain about the failure.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I used to always be the odd one out, as I often criticized the US as a police state, noting the violent and militarized police. Now I find I have to defend police, because if Antifa and BLM are allowed to call the shots the country will become a far worse police state than it already was.

I wonder of these 2 groups aren't intentionally driving people to vote for Trump. Maybe they want a civil war, and believe a Trump win will give that to them, whereas a Biden win would take the wind out of their sails.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The basis of the problem is American police forces are under trained and as a result poorly led. European police officers undergo two to three years of training compared to six months max for US police. Better trained police forces all around the world use deadly force far less often than US police officers. They had better training and have skills ingrained in them that allow them to be effective without killing people at the brisk clip American police kill people. In the military we used to say "you fight the way you train" because when ordnance is flying you don't have time to think through every move. You fall back on muscle memory and training. It is that training that helps the soldier, sailor or airman overcome their fear when in danger (same thing when the airplane is trying to kill you, meaning a system failure). if your training is ingrained you don't don't freeze in fear or do something stupid. You do what you were trained to do. The US as a whole fails its own by being cheap on police training. One wonders if cities and states were to invest as much money on improved and lengthened training for their police as they now spend on excessive use of force lawsuits if the death toll would come down appreciably? It is a question worth considering.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Respect goes both ways, I’m from the Inland Empire hour and a half North and I can’t tell you how many times cops were instrumental in aggressively going after gangs like The Crips and Bloods, 18th street and MS-13 never had a problem and always welcomed their hard work and effort which are the vast majority of cops, there are definitely some people that shouldn’t be on the force let alone own a firearm. I would always give them the benefit of a doubt, have a brother that’s a cop and lot of friends that are cops and now I can see as clear as day what happens when we don’t have cops and that’s societal breakdown which is what we are seeing on TV daily and the judging by the begging of the public the majority of people want and need cops.

I just avoid them at all costs. In California the cops are as bad as the street gangs and the sheriffs have actual gangs within the force. LAPD motor officers used to come into our neighborhood when I was a little kid in the fifth or sixth grade, stop us and inspect our bicycles for the "mandatory" LAPD license sticker and number stamped into your frame (destroying the finish and instantly rusting). No sticker? A car would come and they'd confiscate your bike. This went on for months. They got mine. My dad went down and berated the desk sargent but had to pay their extortion. Finally one day while the motor cop was off his bike inspecting another kids bike, two kids ran out of the bushes and tipped the cops big police bike over on its side. Then we all ran in different directions leaving the cop standing in the street in all that gear with his bike on its side leaking gas. I learned early to never, ever under any circumstances trust a cop. Nothing I have seen in later life has changed my opinion. The wrong people become cops in the US and the problem is compounded by inadequate training and lousy leadership. The leaders were not trained right and pass their bad habits down to the new recruits. Too many American police forces are rotten to the core.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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