Here
and
Now

opinions

White nationalist movement spreads, pushing lone-wolf attacks

33 Comments
By Paul HANDLEY

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2019 AFP

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.


33 Comments
Login to comment

The guy was an eco-facist, he was a believer in climate change and had other extremists views.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Extreme White Christian Terrorists! Until they acknowledge that this exists, this problem will continue. The dude wasn't even from New Zeland. That right their makes him a terrorist!

The guy was an eco-facist, he was a believer in climate change and had other extremists views.

He was also a White Nationalist! Don't forget that part! They are not mutually exclusive!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I expect to get flamed and furiously downvoted for this, but it needs be said.

First, I completely condemn this mass murder.

However, this article is ridiculous sophism and globalistic garbage loaded with emotive language that dismisses a big concern among people in European countries and places where Western cultures are dominant: large-scale immigration from poor countries where the cultural values and eduction levels are very different and not necessarily compatible. The shooter here took his fear to a terrible extreme. The author tries to tie in legitimate concerns about multiculturalism and immigration with extremist views, painting anyone who dares to question the mainstream media's narrative as a dangerous racist. It's disingenuous and ill-informed at best.

The big issue is that Western countries have become something of a victim of their own success. The hard work of previous generations has produced an enormous amount of wealth and very high standards of living tied closely to the rule of (mostly) reasonable law, a large tranche of freedoms, basically pretty strong and stable systems of government, and a predominantly market economy. This wealth has allowed these countries to set up generous welfare systems. And as a whole, they are tremendous magnets for people from developing countries. Why wouldn't they be? For all its faults, broader Western civilisation has produced the best standards of living in history.

But because of this, do Western countries have a moral obligation to allow in anybody who wants to come? I don't think so. It doesn't matter what country people want to migrate to, they should be able to demonstrate a net benefit to the target society and just bringing in a new culture doesn't necessarily cut it. If people can't provide that net benefit, then they can't enter. Simple. I think Japan has the right idea about this, and it's stance is completely understandable if not always consistent or logical. They want to preserve their culture and have seen the problems arising from multiculturalism overseas. After all, many prospective immigrants, legal or not, are leaving countries that are failed states for various reasons, such as oppressive religions like Islam, tyrannical governments and tribal warfare, dysfunctional social structures and the like. A common characteristic of the vast majority of these failed states is that they do not have majority white populations. That's not a racist statement, simply a statement of fact. Remember, there are successful nations with non-European dominant cultures such as Japan, South Korea, Malaysia and others. Irrespective of colonialism that had both positive and dark effects, it was Europeans who sparked the Enlightenment and ended the Dark Ages, leading to the explosion in science, knowledge and freedom that had never been seen anywhere in history. For whatever reason, it didn't come out of the Middle East or Asia (not ignoring the contributions to science and literature that have come from those regions), nor from Africa.

And since deep down people are pretty tribal in nature, in general they prefer people who are similar to them, starting with family and working their way out in concentric circles of proximity, including culture. So it sharply surprising that people of European heritage are are getting nervous and even furious at the influx of people who are different, sometimes very different, and it's natural to ask why aren't they trying to make their places of origin better instead of expecting wealthy countries to take them and their cultures in. And now that China's wealthy, why aren't they trying to get into China? China won't have them, and even if they did, wouldn't give them any free stuff. Or allow them to speak freely no matter how it goes against the host government.

So, this problem needs to be addressed, and fast. For one, Western governments and China must stop interfering in other countries' internal affairs and let them sort out their own problems. Ost of those people have been fighting each other since time immemorial, and outsiders getting involved only makes it worse. And also put far stricter controls on immigration from all sources instead of using it to prop up flagging birthrates. Those two points are just a start, but you have to start somewhere.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

@kyronstavic

I agree some countries do have different cultural values that conflict, but you have to admit that most of these immigrants are coming from countries that have been destroyed, exploited, or bombed by the same countries that they are fleeing to. Who is really at fault for such mass immigration?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

you have to admit that most of these immigrants are coming from countries that have been destroyed, exploited, or bombed by the same countries that they are fleeing to.

Not true in the case of New Zealand, Sweden, Norway...

I see what you are getting at, but this argument doesn’t really deal with the issue of conflicting cultural values and how to deal with this. I think an honest discussion on what can/should and cannot/shouldn’t be accommodated is the way forward. It will offend some, but that’s life.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

One could easily get the impression that multi-culturalism and diversity is not popular with everyone--but that wouldn't be right would it?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

One could easily get the impression that multi-culturalism and diversity is not popular with everyone--but that wouldn't be right would it?

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone returned to their region of origin based on race? I bet the indigenous peoples New Zealand, Tasmania, Americas, Africa, Asia and Australia would agree with you.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@Jimizo

Not true in the case of New Zealand, Sweden, Norway...

I see what you are getting at, but this argument doesn’t really deal with the issue of conflicting cultural values and how to deal with this. I think an honest discussion on what can/should and cannot/shouldn’t be accommodated is the way forward. It will offend some, but that’s life.

That isn't true. All three countries sent troops to fight in the Middle East. I have met some Kiwis who did tours in Iraq.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Extreme White Christian Terrorists! Until they acknowledge that this exists, this problem will continue. The dude wasn't even from New Zeland. That right their makes him a terrorist!

All racist extremist acts should be condemned in the strongest terms.

He was also a White Nationalist! Don't forget that part! They are not mutually exclusive!

No one will forget it, the media keeps harping that point, now I hope they do the exact same with all other radical faith based religious extremists and call them out.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Metaphile

I agree some countries do have different cultural values that conflict, but you have to admit that most of these immigrants are coming from countries that have been destroyed, exploited, or bombed by the same countries that they are fleeing to. Who is really at fault for such mass immigration?

I understand your point, and am a non-interventionist myself. But there's a certain irony in people fleeing to the countries that have interfered with their own, often for the worse. Thing is, those countries were arguably pretty awful places to live before the imperialists came along - and that's compared to Europe and its offshoots before the industrial and scientific revolutions

On a side note, the article implies that white supremacists are everywhere in white-majority countries. The truth is very different, though. Denying their existence would be dishonest, but they are a very small minority. Like in Japan with the black buses. They're noisy but their noise belies their tiny numbers. Most Japanese I think would be suspicious and uncomfortable with large numbers of foreigners moving here to live, but it's only a small percentage that are openly hostile and would resort to violence to deal with it. And the same likely goes for anywhere else.

@Silvafan

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone returned to their region of origin based on race? I bet the indigenous peoples New Zealand, Tasmania, Americas, Africa, Asia and Australia would agree with you.

Cat's already out of the bag. As morally comfortable as it might be to shake fists at generations past, it's not reasonable to pour guilt onto present generations for what happened long before any of us were born or able to make decisions about such matters. Should young Japanese, Germans or Italians feel personally responsible and guilty for what happened in WW2? Should young Australian Aborigines feel guilt over their ancestors overrunning and killing rival tribes? It's important to remember that people have been fighting and disagreeing with people different to them forever. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a deeply embedded part of out ancient psyche that's very difficult to overcome. And overcoming it takes a back seat when more pressing are at hand, like security.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

*But there's a certain irony in people fleeing to the countries that have interfered with their own, often for the worse. Thing is, those countries were arguably pretty awful places to live before the imperialists came along - and that's compared to Europe and its offshoots before the industrial and scientific revolutions.*

Straight out of the pages of *The White Man's Burden or Manifest Destiny**. *Classic!

On a side note, the article implies that white supremacists are everywhere in white-majority countries. The truth is very different, though. 

How would you know that?

 Like in Japan with the black buses. They're noisy but their noise belies their tiny numbers. Most Japanese I think would be suspicious and uncomfortable with large numbers of foreigners moving here to live, but it's only a small percentage that are openly hostile and would resort to violence to deal with it. And the same likely goes for anywhere else.

The article doesn't imply that all White-Supremacists are violent. Just like your Japanese analogy shows. You can be a Nationalist, bigot, or racist and not be violent. Neither you nor your analogy disapproves that there are a large number of White supremacist white-majority countries.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Not true in the case of New Zealand, Sweden, Norway...

I see what you are getting at, but this argument doesn’t really deal with the issue of conflicting cultural values and how to deal with this. I think an honest discussion on what can/should and cannot/shouldn’t be accommodated is the way forward. It will offend some, but that’s life.

That isn't true. All three countries sent troops to fight in the Middle East. I have met some Kiwis who did tours in Iraq.

That stupid war was launched in reality by the US with the the UK as a junior partner. Soldiers were sent from many countries to try to stem the ensuing chaos. To say NZ, Norway and Sweden ( did they send any troops ) are responsible for the Iraq disgrace is disingenuous.

I think I read Al Qaida members see anyone involved in any capacity as fair game.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Cat's already out of the bag. As morally comfortable as it might be to shake fists at generations past, it's not reasonable to pour guilt onto present generations for what happened long before any of us were born or able to make decisions about such matters. Should young Japanese, Germans or Italians feel personally responsible and guilty for what happened in WW2? Should young Australian Aborigines feel guilt over their ancestors overrunning and killing rival tribes? It's important to remember that people have been fighting and disagreeing with people different to them forever. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a deeply embedded part of out ancient psyche that's very difficult to overcome. And overcoming it takes a back seat when more pressing are at hand, like security.

I have a question: Should we just ignore the impact that imperialism, racism, and bigotry has left to the modern Western societies that created the problem?

It is a direct repercussion of the need for one race to become superior to another. It has had a direct impact on the classism system that is still very apparent in the society today. It is showcased through racial profiling, the lack of equity when it comes to the distribution of resources, and schools that still showcase segregation. Minorities including the indigenous peoples are at the bottom of the income percentile while their white counterparts remain at the middle-class and upper level. Simply saying others have been doing for long time is a very weak excuse.

Modern Whites may not have created it, but they are certainly benefiting from it, and like the psycho in New Zealand, they don't want to give it up. That is core of the issue. Alot of Whites especially conservatives don't really want equality. What they want is everything to stay in their favor. It is analogous to the reason that Japanese people have an issue with foreigners becoming more successful than them in Japan.

Had places like the US, Australia, New Zealand been founded on better principles, equality would have prevailed!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Jimizo

That stupid war was launched in reality by the US with the the UK as a junior partner. Soldiers were sent from many countries to try to stem the ensuing chaos. To say NZ, Norway and Sweden ( did they send any troops ) are responsible for the Iraq disgrace is disingenuous.

I think I read Al Qaida members see anyone involved in any capacity as fair game.

No one said NZ, Norway and Sweden are responsible for starting the war. You are attempting to put words in other's mouth and create a false argument that you can win. That is an illogical strawman argument!

To say NZ, Norway and Sweden ( did they send any troops ) are responsible for the Iraq disgrace is disingenuous.

How can you even deny it, and you just admitted that you don't even know? The answer is YES!

Actually, they were involved in several modern conflicts. They also killed people and ruined lives, so they are not innocent, nor are their hands clean.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

But there's a certain irony in people fleeing **to** the countries that have interfered with their own, often for the worse. Thing is, those countries were arguably pretty awful places to live before the imperialists came along - and that's compared to Europe and its offshoots before the industrial and scientific revolutions.

*Metaphile wrote: Straight out of the pages of *The White Man's Burden or Manifest Destiny**. Classic!

:)

2 ( +5 / -3 )

No one said NZ, Norway and Sweden are responsible for starting the war. You are attempting to put words in other's mouth and create a false argument that you can win. That is an illogical strawman argument!

Nope. I was replying to this:

you have to admit that most of these immigrants are coming from countries that have been destroyed, exploited, or bombed by the same countries that they are fleeing to.

New Zealand, Norway and Sweden cannot be blamed for destroying, exploiting and bombing. There is no straw-manning here ( I don’t think you accurately understand the meaning of that term in debates ). I was pointing out the flaw in the statement presented.

Actually, they were involved in several modern conflicts. They also killed people and ruined lives, so they are not innocent, nor are their hands clean.

Please give more details on this.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Metaphile

The article doesn't imply that all White-Supremacists are violent. Just like your Japanese analogy shows. You can be a Nationalist, bigot, or racist and not be violent. Neither you nor your analogy disapproves that there are a large number of White supremacist white-majority countries.

Read between the lines. It's very much the cut and thrust of the article. And while I'm not excusing what happened in NZ, the murderer did claim it was in revenge for the terrorist attacks in Europe by...Islamic extremists. You conveniently forget to mention that. They are people who proudly proclaim the goal of subjugating Europe under Islam. Whether they'll succeed is open to debate, but the birthrate of people who migrated to Europe legally or not from the ME and other Muslim regions is far outpacing the birthrate of white Europeans. I dunno about you, but there's not a single Muslim country I'd want to live in if I had the choice between one, Japan or Australia.

@Silvafan

*I have a question: *Should we just ignore the impact that imperialism, racism, and bigotry has left to the modern Western societies that created the problem?

It is a direct repercussion of the need for one race to become superior to another. It has had a direct impact on the classism system that is still very apparent in the society today. It is showcased through racial profiling, the lack of equity when it comes to the distribution of resources, and schools that still showcase segregation. Minorities including the indigenous peoples are at the bottom of the income percentile while their white counterparts remain at the middle-class and upper level. Simply saying others have been doing for long time is a very weak excuse. 

Modern Whites may not have created it, but they are certainly benefiting from it, and like the psycho in New Zealand, they don't want to give it up. That is core of the issue. Alot of Whites especially conservatives don't really want equality. What they want is everything to stay in their favor. It is analogous to the reason that Japanese people have an issue with foreigners becoming more successful than them in Japan.

Had places like the US, Australia, New Zealand been founded on better principles, equality would have prevailed!

Your first mistake is to reduce the argument to race. It's not about that. Race may be a factor, but it's just one among myriad others. I think culture is far more influential. Some cultures are just better than others, and cultures come and go as they have through history. Racism exists everywhere and denying that fact just because it's unpleasant just wastes time. I've been treated differently in Japan because I'm not ethnically Japanese, but I don't play the victim card even though I'm a minority. But I can adapt to Japanese culture to a reasonable extent, and that has made life a lot easier and more enjoyable.

As for the argument that modern whites may not have created it, but they do benefit from it: Yeah. But so have countless others around the world. For the most part, the medical, agricultural, technological legacy of people of European heritage has vastly improved health, access to food, communications etc to people all over the world. Would you trade that for "equality" in poverty? And by equality, do you mean equality under the law, where each person is treated equally in that respect, or equality of outcome? Equality under the law is fine (and another legacy of the Enlightenment - no other culture to the best of my knowledge had ever come close). But equality of outcome has been murderously destructive every time it's been tried.

And what better principles" are you referring to about the foundations of the US, Australia, NZ? Not provoking, genuinely interested.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Some cultures are just better than others

This is an idea which raises eyebrows with some. My take is that in terms of ideas like equality, secular or functionally secular government, rule of law, access to due process, freedom of speech and thought, some cultures are objectively better and some are better than others within the cultures which champion these ideas.

We should welcome people who share the ideas I mentioned, no matter what culture they come from, and many escape cultures which are not based on these ideas for a better life.

For those who don’t share these ideas, they are entitled to their opinions, but we should be free to criticise them and not make excuses or exceptions. I remember hearing an example on the view of homosexuality. Some devout religious people think homosexuality should be a criminal offence and some neo-Nazis think the same. The best strategy is to treat the opinion of any people who think this with the disgust it deserves.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Jimizo

New Zealand, Norway and Sweden cannot be blamed for destroying, exploiting and bombing. There is no straw-manning here ( I don’t think you accurately understand the meaning of that term in debates ). I was pointing out the flaw in the statement presented.

Like earlier, my mate was stationed in the Middle East and was involved in several conflicts while in the New Zealand military. I just emailed my Kiwi mate to check on him. He is a veteran and was assigned to a New Zealand and Australian coalition in Baghdad and Kuwait. He just told me, and I quote "We didn't start it, but we did help to make it worse by continuing the fight." The Kiwis and Aussies did't throw the first blow, but they did get their fists in the fight. That was decision they made. I don't know any Norwegian vets, but they were also part of the coalition.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Like I said earlier, my mate was stationed in the Middle East and was involved in several conflicts with New Zealand military. I just emailed my Kiwi mate to check on him. He is a veteran and was assigned to a New Zealand and Australian coalition in Baghdad and Kuwait. He just told me, and I quote "We didn't start it, but we did help to make it worse by continuing the fight."

I tend to not go with anecdotes and I was vehemently against the Iraq War, but what was the purpose of New Zealand soldiers in Iraq? To destroy, bomb and exploit ordinary Iraqis?

@biglittleman

Do you think the statement that some cultures are better than others is bigoted? Do you think people fleeing persecution from racists and religious tyrants to a place where they can have a better life are fleeing to an equal or worse culture?

I remember reading the story of Ayaan Hirsi Ali who underwent FGM in Somalia and escaped to the Netherlands to avoid an arranged marriage. I’m very comfortable in agreeing with her that Dutch culture is better than Somali culture - particularly if you are a woman.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Jimizo

New Zealand, Norway and Sweden cannot be blamed for destroying, exploiting and bombing. There is no straw-manning here ( I don’t think you accurately understand the meaning of that term in debates ). I was pointing out the flaw in the statement presented.

Why can't they take some of the blame? They provided support and troops to those that did start the most recent conflicts. So, they did take part in the damage that lead to some refugees wanting to flee their countries and start over. They are not completely innocent. Don't let the term Peacekeepers fool you!

That stupid war "was launched in reality" by the US with the the UK as a junior partner. Soldiers were sent from many countries to try to stem the ensuing chaos. To say NZ, Norway and Sweden ( did they send any troops ) are responsible for the Iraq disgrace is disingenuous.

You also said that! No one said they are solely responsible, that they started the conflict. Once again, you didn't even know if they sent troops! LOL!

straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, "while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent." One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

No, you don't understand what a Strawman argument means or when you are using one.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

For those who downvoted my 3:23 post, I’d be fascinated to know your objections, and if you’d be prepared to live in cultures where ideas of equality, rule of law, access to due process, secular or functionally secular government and freedom of speech and belief are not respected.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Jimizo

but what was the purpose of New Zealand soldiers in Iraq? To destroy, bomb and exploit ordinary Iraqis?

Their purpose was irrelevant. The effects are what we are discussing. Some the most heinous crimes in history were committed by people who thought what they were doing was just.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

You also said that! No one said they are solely responsible, that they started the conflict. Once again, you didn't even know if they sent troops! LOL!

Don’t be silly.

I was asking if Sweden sent troops and couldn’t find any information on this. Again, I was responding to a now deleted post that stated New Zealand, Norway and Sweden sent troops.

Please post the evidence that the troops in question killed and ruined lives. I asked for it and you provided nothing of substance, just opinion. “They are not completely innocent. Don’t let the term peacekeepers fool you” just doesn’t cut it, does it? Poor, very poor.

Who did they kill? Did they kill ordinary Iraqis? Did they kill sectarian fighters looking to kill other Iraqis? As I stated, I was vehemently against the Iraq War, but what was the purpose of these soldiers? I hope you’d have the respect for them, however misguided you think they were, to think they were protecting innocent lives.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

This writer quotes sophie bjork-james a feminist and virulent anti white anti Conservative anti Christian, feminist man hater...Is that the best you've got?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This writer quotes sophie bjork-james a feminist and virulent anti white anti Conservative anti Christian, feminist man hater...Is that the best you've got?

Something specific about her comments you object to?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

For those who downvoted my 3:23 post, I’d be fascinated to know your objections, and if you’d be prepared to live in cultures where ideas of equality, rule of law, access to due process, secular or functionally secular government and freedom of speech and belief are not respected.

I wondered about that too. I agree with you.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The people in those pictures look like really smart people...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is what happens with all the wealth produced by the people gets sucked up by the 1%. Always looking for someone to blame for their miserable condition. And then attacking and killing when things get really bad. It has happened throughout history. Blame the Jews, Mexicans, Muslims, etc. etc. etc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Gokai with a great point. If our economies were thriving for more than the wealthy, there would be a lot less discontent. Rather than focus that rage against those responsible for our cratering societies, too many politicians and their fellow travelers--extremists--are happy to direct it against anyone who's different.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Gokai with a great point. If our economies were thriving for more than the wealthy, there would be a lot less discontent. Rather than focus that rage against those responsible for our cratering societies, too many politicians and their fellow travelers--extremists--are happy to direct it against anyone who's different.

That would also reduce immigrant populations because they are usually moving for a better economic opportunity, running from domestic and foreign soldiers, or both.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I hope they throw the book at this loser!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Gokai with a great point. If our economies were thriving for more than the wealthy, there would be a lot less discontent.

I don’t believe that, we will always have poor people and discontent and even if there were a hypothetical possibility of changing the playing field, there still would be a division within every country.

Rather than focus that rage against those responsible for our cratering societies, too many politicians and their fellow travelers--extremists--are happy to direct it against anyone who's different.

Very true, but we will sadly have this until the end of time. But in a different alternative, it would be.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites