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Why the 2nd Amendment protects a 'well-regulated militia' but not a private citizen militia
By Eliga Gould DURHAM, NH©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
31 Comments
Jsapc
And how many times have guns been used by american citizens to "protect themselves from a tyrannical governement", exactly? It seems they're only used to violentely murder other americans. And kids in schools.
Peter Neil
Where is that enunciated and written?
Actually it was to limit government powers more than define roles.
Only three crimes are listed: treason, piracy and counterfeiting. Everything else, including policing and protection is left to the states.
Regardless, the people with the guns are not members of a well regulated militia.
Peter Neil
Except that you wrote nothing from the Constitution.
Express sister
Defended against whom?
Jsapc
If the founding fathers had a time machine and saw that there were between 30k and 40k gun deaths per year in the US, they would amend the Constitution on the spot.
Express sister
there have actually been several amendments to the US constitution. You literally quoted the second in your post. It is an amendment. Do you know what the US constitution is, or what its amendments are?
Express sister
More neat opinions. No laws.
Commodore Perry
Peter NeilToday 12:56 pm JST
The Bill of Rights is from the Constitution.
Express sisterToday 01:05 pm JST
The Constitution is the law. Of. The. Land.
The 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."
Commodore Perry
Peter NeilToday 10:48 am JST
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
Express sister
Those are neat opinion pieces, one of which from someone who isn't American, but I think Peter Neil is asking about the law as written in the Second Amendment. Can you find the specific enunciation that he is referring to in that amendment?
bass4funk
Yes, very true, but that won’t happen to the 2nd amendment, now if the Dems want to kill their future chances for Congress and the Presidency, they should try it, but they won’t for all their bluster.
Rhetorical question?
Express sister
To clarify: what do you think it means to say:
What do you think a duty is?
Commodore Perry
xpress sisterToday 04:03 pm JST
Not sure to what you are referring because again, the quote I supplied is below and there is no mention of duty.
If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. ***Alexander Hamilton*,** Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
Express sister
This is correct.
Commodore Perry
Express sisterToday 11:31 am JST
Can you define specific enunciation? And wasn't Thomas Jefferson a founding father?
The Second amendment became an amendment after listening to neat opinions by founding fathers, like Thomas Jefferson. And an understanding of the purpose of the declaration of independence is required to see how the origin of Bill of Rights
Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence of the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
In basic terms, Hamilton enunciated that in order to eliminate the threat that the government militia might pose to freedom, it was necessary for the public to be able to stop any attempt of the government to suppress freedom and therefore important that the public at large should hold firearms.
if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. **Alexander Hamilton,** Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
Pretty straight forward.
Commodore Perry
Express sisterToday 02:09 pm JST
Then why are you misinterpreting the law?
Dude--The Constitution is federal law. The court case interprets it.
I never said that.
Wrong again. And if you consider the Federalist papers "opinion", well, that is charming.
Here is the quote again---pick out the line that says "people must carry guns" ---happy to wait for your answer as you argue with Hamilton:
if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. ***Alexander Hamilton*,** Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
You misunderstood, misinterpreted. A basic understanding of the US Constitution is kind of a prerequisite for this type of discussion.
Commodore Perry
P. SmithToday 04:39 pm JST
Define part.
Because the federalist papers give the rationale behind what is written in the Constitution. So if you want to ask, What did the Founder intend when he wrote a certain provision of the Constitution, you can read the Federalist papers and see what they were thinking.
And is a response to the below:
Express sisterToday 11:31 am JST
Commodore Perry
Jeans and T-shirtToday 05:25 pm JST
This isn't my fight, but I think you've mistaken the name of the case (District of Columbia vs Heller) for the court in which it was held, which was the Supreme Court of the United States.
An incorrect interpretation it may be, but it's the one against which related laws should be measured.
Correct, and kind to point that out.
Heller is a very recent Sup. Ct. case on the 2d amendment issue.
And the new California case in this article builds upon that Supt. Ct. holding.
Express sister
You are not educating anyone that the constitution is the basis of our law.
Cool citation of a case from over a decade ago that's not federal law, my dude. Real quick, how does that accord with your opinion piece that citizens must be required to carry firearms? The one you quoted. Like, it doesn't say here that people must carry guns. But you quoted an opinion that they should, as evidence. Should I be prosecuted for not leaving the house with a gun, in your view? If not, why not? You made an argument that I have duty to do so. If you're telling me I cannot do something, how are you not restricting my freedom?
I'm happy to wait for my answer.
bass4funk
Well, thankfully the 2nd amendment isn’t going anywhere, so that’s a big sigh of relief.
Kind of is actually, that’s why it’s been hard on Dems to eradicate or amend it.
Commodore Perry
citizens have a right to own a private assault weapon not just for defense of a gun owner’s home, but also for “citizens’ militias” engaged in homeland defense.
expatToday 03:07 pm JST
Not in California.
Express sister
While I'm sure that this would have been your argument for the validity of the 18th amendment, the 21st amendment was actually good. Consider it.
Yes.
I am not.
You cited a decision from a court circuit, which may not be the correct interpretation. Do you understand how the US legal system works? It's fine if you don't. Most people aren't lawyers.
Oh, weird, I could have sworn that you cited:
But I guess I'm looking at an imaginary post.
Sorry, I'm right.
Here is the quote again---pick out the line that says "people must carry guns" ---happy to wait for your answer as you argue with Hamilton:
if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. **Alexander Hamilton,** Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
I'm arguing with a quote you gave from Jefferson. And now you're giving me a different quote? Come on, friend. Try and keep it straight.
But if Hamilton is your go-to, I suppose you must agree with his proposition that cabinet positions be inherited, like a Lordly, British system. Am I right?
Express sister
That's not the quote I'm asking about. I'm asking about the quote you gave from Jefferson. If you had read what I wrote, you would understand that. As a reminder, here's the full quote you gave to me:
I'll ask again: what do you think duty means?
Danielsan
Wrong. The 2nd Amendment was written to ensure citizens could protect them selves from a tyrannical government.
The Bill of Rights was written to protect individuals liberties, and to define governments roles in everyday life.
During recent riots and social unrest, the government's own "well regulated militias" were unwilling and ineffective at protecting anyone and anything, leaving citizens to defend themselves.