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Dueling 'racist' claims defuse once powerful word

165 Comments
By Jesse Washington

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"You lie!" is only racist against liars.

Maybe if he yelled "You like fried chicken!" you'd have a case, but I don't see how Obama's race comes into this.

Unless the people crying racism think that all black people are liars.

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@Altria

It is racism if the reason for the outcry not to mention the lack of respect for our Commander in Chief is because they don't believe an African American should be President. Almost all of them don't even call him the President. They simply call him Obama. Which is what the majority of the base of the same party Mr. Wilson is apart of believes quite strongly.

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Rasmussen polling reported the other day a mere 12 percent of American voters believe that opponents of Obama's health care are "racist."

There is no story here.

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Yeah, the word actually fuels racism. I acually use the word as a sarcastic remark... "yeah, I must be a racist because I don't agree with Obama's liberal policies"

Over 90% of black voters didn't vote for McCain, is that because they are racist against Whites or because they were so well informed that they just agreed with Obamas policies.

aw

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nice point alphawolf

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I believe in races. I practice for races. I am a *racist.

*The suffix -ist is used to denote a person who either practices something or a person who is concerned with something or a person who holds certain principles, doctrines, etc.

For example, a person who apologises is known as an apologist, a person who writes plays is known as a dramatist, a person who works on a machine is known as a machinist, a person who believes in realism is known as a realist, a person who believes in socialism is known as a socialist, a person who believes in capitalism is known as a capitalist and a person who believes in communism is known as a communist.

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Why does nobody realise that the over-bandied around term, "America's first black president" is a lie in itself and just perpetuates this whole race scenario that the world is sick of hearing from North America?

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Over 90% of black voters didn't vote for McCain, is that because they are racist against Whites It's different if you are a minority, to pretend it's the same is ignorant

"America's first black president" is a lie in itself

Some president a long time ago was part Black, but it certainly wasn't part of his public persona. Seriously, according to law(s) in the US in the past, especially in the South. People half, quarter, or even an eigth Black (or Indian, etc) were not white, and thus had fewer rights. The constitution specifically had the Three-fifths compromise (about slaves, Indians were excluded from citizenship). Today universities can base acceptance upon race... getting into UC Berkeley is much easier if you can prove you have a great grandparent who is Black or Indian... good luck if you are Asian.

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Here we go again, lots of serious issues on the agenda, but what do the politicians in the US, they start spatting amongst themselves like a bunch of toddlers who cannot share their toys in the sandpit. Seriously, all sides of this argument need to check that their undies are not bunched up the crxck of their axs. On the Republican side, some people need to be taken aside and slapped up around the head regarding basic levels of decorum. Meanwhile on the Democratic side, there are some people who need to kick this persecution complex and get on with the job.

Grow up!!!

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I would have really respected Obama if he had stopped at that point, turned to Nancy Pelosi and said, "Mrs. Speaker, would you please ask the sergeant at arms to eject that obnoxious snuff-drooling hillbilly redneck? I will resume my speech after he's been removed from the chamber."

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I would really have respected Obama if he hadn't told a bunch of lies during his speech.

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Whre is Zurcronium? This was my exact point that throwing the racist tag around so lightly is like crying wolf. If you call racism on everything then eventually the charge loses it's punch.

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Sarge, be truthful. You don't respect Obama at all. You're post have shown your dislike for Obama from day one.

So what were the lies?

I keep hearing the republicans running their lips about lies, but they haven't shown me yet where in the health care proposals were lies.

Where are the lies that Wilson was disrespectful about? He's never said where Obama lied.

Wilson a racist, I'm not so sure. Wilson being a rude southerner, I'm sure. < :-)

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The current chairman of the Republican National Comittee is a black man. Amazing, huh?

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"What were the lies?"

Illegal immigrants not receiving benefits from the government, for starters.

"Wilson being a rude southerner"

Yeah, he's so rude for pointing out that our president is a liar.

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And your reference is where? I'm still waiting to see where the reference is that will allow illegal immigrants to get health care. Care to provide it? Care to enlighten me where Wilson's disrespect is correct. < :-)

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adayream,

Wilson DID let everyone know where he thought Obama lied, I believe, with his timing of his unracist, but uncivil outburst. I get the impression he said it stright after Obama promised that illegal immigrants wouldn't have access to any kind of national medical insurance.

Biglittleman,

In regards to your comment:

Almost all of them don't even call him the President. They simply call him Obama.

Correct me if I'm off track here, but what about Dubya, Clinton, Bush and Reagan?

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stright

straight, damn it, straight!

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Beelzebub, do you really believe Obama when he says that illegal immigrants won't get any benefits from the government?

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If David Palmer or his brother Wayne, the black presidents of 24, were real people running for president, I'd vote for either one of them in a heartbeat.

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Sarge, personally it won't make a bit of difference to me if Obama turns out to be a good president or a bad one, but I find it incredibly amusing to watch Jed Clampet, Ellie Mae, Grannie and Jethro going into hysterics at those town hall meetings. Maybe you're right, it's not racism, they're just back in the fictitious Dogpatch USA, living in a time warp.

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soothsayer, please provide the reference. Please show me where Wilson laid out the lie.

No republican has provided it as of yet. None.

If he did, then you should be able to pull the reference. < :-)

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Thank you soothsayer. Your silence shows that there is no reference.

Another example of where republicans can run their posts straight into the ground without reference to their accusations. < :-)

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Beelzebub - "it won't make a bit of difference to me if Obama turns out to be a good president or a bad one"

Yes, it will.

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The republican party is inherently racist. That is why they do not have any black elected officials in Congress. None. Steele won the leadership position for one reason, Obama. And most republicans think Steele is useless. I do agree with them on that.

The republican convention was 99% white. The teabaggers, 99% white. The Republican congress member, 100% non-black. Republicans hate minorities generally, they do not consider them Americans. Example, the birthers. How crazy is that that over half of the republicans do not accept Obama as their president because he is black, but hide that behind saying he is not a real American. So simple, so transparent, so racist.

And now Limbaugh wants to go back to the segregated days of the 50s? Amazing and so racist. Of course he blames blacks for whites being racist, so twisted.

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Obama is as much white as he is black.

So, back when the Obama's approval rating was 70%, liberals hadn't noticed that he was half-black? Maybe every time he tells a bald-faced lie about his policies, instead of his nose growing like Pinocchio's, his skin darkens? Perhaps that would explain the lefties sudden urge to scream racism.

When people are labeled "racist" because they don't agree with his policies, it can be argued that Obama is as much white as he is black; hence, no racism.

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"The republican party is inherently racist"

That must be why the current chairman of the Republican Party is black.

Give it up, zurc.

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I meant Republican National Committee.

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Obama is black, that is how it works in the USA. Maybe in Russia things are different about mixed people. As I posted already Steele is strictly window dressing. No one in the republican party takes him seriously. Rush dismissed him immediately as worthless. Which he is.

Just admit what you are guys. The truth will set you free, if you can handle the truth. Many racist organizations will accept your membership fees. Like the republican party does.

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Many racist organizations ... like the republican party

Zee, not sure why you canadians obsess so much about all things U.S., but if your wild-eyed accusation were true, then why is it more minorities -- including blacks -- filled more Cabinet positions during Mr. Bush's time in office than in all of the current and past democrat administrations combined?

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The Great Messiah is master of the "Sin Of Omission". Leave out a word here..parse a phrase there. Lying is still lying no matter how you paint it up. You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.

Is honesty in President Obama's health care policy?

You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn't lie. He's too subtle for that. He . . . well, you judge.

Herewith three examples within a single speech - the now-famous Obama-Wilson "you lie" address to Congress on health care - of Obama's relationship with truth.

(1) "I will not sign [a plan]," he solemnly pledged, "if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period."

Wonderful. The President seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama's very next sentence: "And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize."

This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there's absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future President to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not.

Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts.

Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. "Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future President will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future President fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?"

(2) And then there's the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange.

But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we'd have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it's illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don't voluntarily turn themselves in.

When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem?

(3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating "hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud" from Medicare.

That's not a lie. That's not even deception. That's just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud and abuse - Meg Greenfield once called this phrase "the dread big three" - as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977.

Moreover, if half a trillion dollars are waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn't he gotten started on the painless billions in "waste and fraud" savings?

Obama doesn't lie. He merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another. This has been the story throughout his whole health care crusade. Its original premise was that our current financial crisis was rooted in neglect of three things - energy, education and health care. That transparent attempt to exploit Emanuel's Law - a crisis is a terrible thing to waste - failed for health care because no one is stupid enough to believe that the 2008 financial collapse was caused by a lack of universal health care.

Slickness wasn't fatal to "Slick Willie" Clinton because he possessed a winning, near irresistible charm. Obama's persona is more cool, distant, imperial. The charming scoundrel can get away with endless deception; the righteous redeemer cannot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/09/18/2009-09-18_does_president_obama_really_lie.html

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Romeo,

they were appointed, not elected. Please consult the constitution on the difference.

Also you are again wrong on fact. Clinton appointed four blacks to his initial team while bush appointed two. Obama appointed four.

Have you just make a habit of being wrong on fact all the time? The republicans deserve you.

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Zucronium, By your logic I wonder if you consider the Miss Black America pagent a racist event. How about the Congressional Black Congress?

aw

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Zee: re-read my post. I wrote Mr. Bush appointed more minorities than Obama and Clinton combined.

Oh, and the Constitution (the word is capitalized: Americans knows that, which, of course, we all know you're not) outlines that while Cabinet positions are appointed, they are nonetheless in the presidential line of succession.

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the worst kind of rascists are the ones fixated on the color of other people's skin and use it for their own political advantage. the race baiting democratic party makes its living keeping a large percentage of the African American community down.

It is the growing number of African Americans who have rejected the Democrat's agenda of manipulation that have freed themselves from the shackles of rascism.

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Let's get real !!!! Some caucasians are racist. Some caucasians are not.

Many white Americans do not want a Black President. Many Americans do not want a stupid President.

But to call Obama a Nazi or implying he is the New Hitler is down right comical. Or freakin crazy. The majority of people calling Obama the "New Hitler " guess what skin color they are, old fat ( orca fat) white people. Why are they doing this ? Are they stupid ?

Do they really know what a Hitler is ? Obama wants to change care health so that everyone can afford it, so that poor and rich people can use it.

What is wrong with that ?

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@Alphawolf

Zucronium, By your logic I wonder if you consider the Miss Black America pagent a racist event. How about the Congressional Black Congress?

No they are not. Most Blacks in America are not hateful of Whites but mistrusting of Whites. Because like how people use statistics to prove Black are violent criminals by nature and should be locked up for life. The historical records show Whites in America as group are not to be trusted and violent against Blacks. Anyone with common sense and a better understanding of the world will know that is not necessarily true for both groups.

The reason these Black organizations are hear today like Black TV networks,Black Pageants and etc. Is because White people in America have been historically and to a degree still racist. When the maid from 'Gone With the Wind' won an Oscar for her role. She couldn't even go in to receive her award because she was Black. All these Black Organization came to be because Whites wouldn't let them become apart the American Dream. These organizations are still here because in part of simple tradition and also because some things still haven't changed.

I don't see people call other organizations for people of Jewish background, Italian, Irish and etc racists for their existence. Especially, since they came about for the same reasons as Black Organizations. They were being discriminated against simply because of who they are.

Black History is American history but like many things people like Limbaugh want to separate it from everything else because it is different and they can't take credit for it. (Racist?) Almost every minority in the US owes some gratitude to the African American because without their blood sweat tears whether it was building this country as slaves, fighting for this country in civil/revolutionary/world wars, suffering from beatings/humiliation/death to get basic civil rights and usually being the first minority to open a new doors in the American Dream. No other minority in America has suffered as much or did as much to help the cause. Even our Native American brother who was almost wiped out has contributed as much to this nation. I wonder how many minority groups would have been willing to go through all that? Because all their good lives in the US are owed in part to the African American. You won't hear that in media.

Black progress in America has continued despite of not because of America.

I don't think AA did it solely alone our White Brothers and Sisters helped but without the initial drive from within to change it. These important moments in American history which includes racism would not have never taken place.

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I am not saying all are racist in America. If you do not believe me watch Fox News. They really do not have a Black , Spanish and/or Asian Anchor Reporter. It's all blonde ladies or white men. They have minority guest speakers or commentators. But I have never seen a Black Male Hosting the show. Is that racist ? You can be the Judge.Cacasians are more racist than anyone else in the planet. Seriously !!!! I am not saying all are racist in America. If you do not believe me watch Fox News. They really do not have a Black , Spanish and/or Asian Anchor Reporter. It's all blonde ladies or white men. They have minority guest speakers or commentators. But I have never seen a Black Male Hosting the show. Is that racist ? You can be the Judge.

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Obama was elected because a majority of voters realized how desperate their economic situation has become. But the sad fact is, Americans have never really stopped fighting their Civil War. One quarter of the country continues to be haunted by the ghosts of Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis, and their descendants have emigrated to states like Colorado, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Follow the states that vote red for republican and you'll find the legacy of white supremacy and recidivist Dixiecrats under every rock.

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Which party, on April 20,1871, adopted the Ku Klux Klan Act, outlawing the most feared terrorist group of its day?

Hint:It wasn't the Democrats.

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@4thEstateDotCom

Which party, on April 20,1871, adopted the Ku Klux Klan Act, outlawing the most feared terrorist group of its day?

Hint:It wasn't the Democrats.

That means nothing! If you know anything about the history of the political parties you would know the Democrats were originally the Party of Racism and hatred. When Black people won their rights and most were still in the South, they became more involved with politics. The Dixiecrats switched parties in opposition. The Republican party despite its opposition to slavery which was more financial was still segregated. Separate but equal or just separate.

If you look at the same places the Racist Dixiecrats were located you will now see they are Republicans. Thus the Republican base and their racists viewpoints.

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Oh and MLK was a Republican too.

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if America was fraught with racism, Barrack Obama would not be the president nor would black Americans be enjoying the huge strides they have made over the last 5 decades.

comparatively speaking, how well are non whites doing in Canada and Western Europe? I don't think we'll see a black, brown or yellow head of state from any of these so called advanced nations.

the democrats have been successfully using the race card for years to keep blacks in line, without it, they wouldn't be elected dog catcher.

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4thEstateDotCom,

Don't willfully demonstrate your ignorance by trying to pretend 1800s Democrats and Republicans bear any similarities whatsoever with their modern counterparts. They are similar only in name.

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@TunginCheke,

Read my long thread. I quote:

Black progress in America has continued despite of not because of America.

Read that line again. If you really understand it then you would have the response to your comment.

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LFRAgain would be more persuasive if he could provide a striking example of which he speaks; but he can't, which is why he resorts to insulting those who disabuse him of certain notions which probably serve as a crutch in his life.

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BLM

I would agree up to a point. African Americans who reject the notion that white people are evil do very well in America indeed despite the racist construct of the Democratic party.

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@Tunguncheke

Yes, African Americans do very well when they can overcome the challenges they face simply because of their skin color. The issue is White people who think Black people are evil do the best. Ex.Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck/Coultier/Thurman/Palin/Christian Conservatives/Mormons

Which is why this issue exists.

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"Cacasians are more racist than anyone else in the planet. Seriously !!!! I am not saying all are racist in America. If you do not believe me watch Fox News. They really do not have a Black , Spanish and/or Asian Anchor Reporter. It's all blonde ladies or white men".

Another silly comment. And maybe Fox is just aiming at its audience? To come out and say that they are rascist just because the don't have someone from a certain "ethnic" group as an anchor reporter is rather silly. Or it could be any other reason as well.

You can go to any country in the world and see that rascism exists. I feel a bit sorry for America and Americans in general as the US having been one of the superpowers in the world for a long time is under constant scrutiny and having a more transparent society than some others.

People have long been allowed to freely go to America and report back home about the problems they have faced there. Why do people go to America? Because it is seen as a country that has something to offer immigrants who go there (obviously far more than their home countries).

It would be really interesting to see what would happen if a whole pile of "caucasians" suddenly picked up house and moved to some countries in Asia, Africa or South America. I'm sure they could easily find problems facing "caucasians" too.

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I'm pretty sure that just the other day I heard a few brave traitors to the liberal cause on NPR discussing the subtle condescension white jazz musicians still receive from their black peers, or something like that. I've long since tuned out the nonsense about race in America.
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Wow, some people just seem to be grasping at straws. Jazz? I definitely forsee a race war brewing.

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BLM

Your posts reveal the same narrow minded thinking you supposedly despise.

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4thEstateDotCom,

"LFRAgain would be more persuasive if he could provide a striking example of which he speaks"

No need to. Biglittleman provided a perfect example, which -- surprise, surprise -- you chose to ignore.

I just thought I'd remind you of the oversight. Again, you're looking more than a little lost here.

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"I would have really respected Obama if he had stopped at that point, turned to Nancy Pelosi and said, "Mrs. Speaker, would you please ask the sergeant at arms to eject that obnoxious snuff-drooling hillbilly redneck? I will resume my speech after he's been removed from the chamber.""

Beelzebub. Just a minor point here. Technically, Obama could not have done that. He has no power in Congress. He was a guest. Pelosi should have done it, but for Obama to ask her puts her in a difficult spot. I think even for Biden to do so would have created some procedural problems.

Just my two cents there.

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4thestate I actually think that your point is interesting there, but there is a lot of history there that you are glossing over.

"America" took something that was created and developed by black people and first tarted it up for sneering white New Yorkers by creating Louis Armstrong type characters... kind of Fats Waller entertainers... and put them along with Amos and Andy. Then it ignored the black current and went instead to Glenn Miller (from Colorado, not New Orleans) and Benny Goodman, who was a little Jewish... And pretty soon all the white guys are making the money and selling the records, snapping their fingers and looking cool.

So there is resentment there. Sure. Who can say what good jazz is, but for black performers, watching the Glenn Miller/ Benny Goodman era come to an end was a good shot of schadenfreude. I don't blame them. I happen to think a lot of that white stuff was carp too. Pseudo jazz. Commercial jazz.

So the racism there has a lot of economics and history tied up in it. Why did Vanilla Ice and Eminem make so much money off of a culture that is not even theirs?

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Many people just flat out lie about not being racist. They say they aren't, but they are. The proof is in the pudding therefore. You have to look at what people do rather than what they say.

We all know how tokenism works. We all know that for a Republican to admit that HE (using SHE would be giving too much credit where it is not due) is a racist would be political suicide. Given those realities, what would we expect to see from a party that actually is full of racists?

The answer is exactly what we see in the Republican party today. One or two token black members, some in administrative positions, with few other supporters, either in a client role or in an elected role. Republicans do not want black people to be successful in general. Black people know that, so you get the whitewash national convention, which we all saw. Dr. C. Rice has disappeared. Don Cheney natters on, but where is GW Bush's Sec. of State nowadays? Probably sipping a martini, glad she did not get blamed for everything under the sun.

Of COURSE Rush L. is not racist, but he attacks minorities and people "who happen to be non-white" all the time. It is his favorite sport. Sure. It is a coincidence, but what would it look like if he were racist? Exactly as it appears today.

And OF COURSE Wilson is not a racist, but would a racist representative from the first state to secede from the union in 1861 because its white people could not live another day without slavery.. would a racist person from that state call a black man.. the President... a liar? Sure. And would the Republican party, if it were dominated by racists, make a blanket statement that racism is not condoned in the party in any form? No, it would not. And in fact, the Republicans have never officially said that it was not racially motivated. We are left with chuckles and muttered excuses from Mr. Wilson's family members.

OF COURSE Fox is fair and balanced, but what would its broadcast message look like if it were racist? It would look like the 700 Club or Jimmy Swaggart, or 1950s Ozzie and Harriet white. In fact it does look like that. Other posters have put it more eloquently than I can.

Look. It is pointless to badger people into acknowledging what they are, but we have seen on these forums that some people truly believe that everyone is a racist. How comforting that must be for people who practice racism full time. For myself, if I had to prove a null hypothesis that Republicans are not a racist political party, I would be looking hard for evidence that they are not. I do. I can't find much. Even Colin Powell talks about how the party is more about Rush and Sarah than it is about America anymore.

Jimmy Carter and I are watching, and we know what we are seeing. Spin it however you like. The proof is in the pudding.

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"Why did Vanilla Ice and Eminem make so much money off of a culture that is not even theirs?"

Um, um, um, because guilty white liberals like Klein2 bought their CD's?

I don't know.

Nor do I care.

What's the next silly post-modernist challenge you have for us - answering the preposterous assertion that Tiger Woods is an Uncle Tom because he has made millions playing a "white boy" game like golf?

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Good example. Tiger's dad was kept off of plenty of courses. There are still many racist courses in the US that Japanese people cannot play on for any amount of money. So Tiger, with every win, is sticking it to whitey. More power to him. I like the way he plays.

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It's amusing to read, on a site called JapanToday, that Republicans are supposedly the more racist party in US politics.

Internment camps to which Americans of Japanese descent were sent?

Oops! Happened during the reign of the Liberal icon FDR, didn't it?

Atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

That was the Democrat Truman, no?

What a good laugh to read that "Dixiecrats" suddenly left the Democrat Party, which supported slavery and thereafter drew up Jim Crow laws, in order to supposedly join the Republican Party, when it was the latter which had also, right after the abolition of slavery, taken up the cause of women's suffrage.

Yeah. You're really making sense...

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Good example. Tiger's dad was kept off of plenty of courses.

Tiger's dad was in the U.S. Army. All Military MWR courses have been open to anyone with an I.D. card since the 1970's and I played with lots of black friends on many courses. Please name the course Earl Woods was not allowed to play on.

There are still many racist courses in the US that Japanese people cannot play on for any amount of money.

They're call "private clubs" and it doesn't matter if you are Japanese, Biritsh, American, Black, White or Martian, if you are not a member, you can't play there. You can play on any municipal course anywhere in the U.S.

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adaydream,

Sorry for the delay.

If you had bothered to read my post carefully, you would note that I said Wilson thought Obama lied, not that he had proven it. Of course, if I had bothered to read your post more carefully, then I wouldn't have been able to post anything! Looks like we both need to smack ourselves on the forehead, and then kiss and make up.

And you're right: Sarge does need to put his money where his mouth is.

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its a shame the left can't judge a person by the content of the character and not the color of their skin. the reverend mlk jr would be disgusted by what the democratic party has turned into.

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@Tunginchek2

Why you should say that the Republicans and those that represent them like Rush, Beck, Hannity and Coultier. Cause they use race all the time. I don't see you or any Republican official stepping up and saying they are wrong and should stop stirring up racist views and opinions.

By the way what narrow minded view am I thinking? Not to mention you have totally ignored my example and haven't proven anything I have said was wrong.

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@4thEstatedotcom

What a good laugh to read that "Dixiecrats" suddenly left the Democrat Party, which supported slavery and thereafter drew up Jim Crow laws, in order to supposedly join the Republican Party, when it was the latter which had also, right after the abolition of slavery, taken up the cause of women's suffrage.

Like LFRAgain said your ignorance and random points are sad and amusing.

History lesson for you:

The States' Rights Democratic Party (commonly known as the Dixiecrats) was a segregationist, socially conservative political party in the United States. The term Dixiecrat is a portmanteau of Dixie, referring to the Southern United States, and Democrat, referring to the United States Democratic Party. It split with the Democratic Party in the mid-20th century determined to protect what they saw as the Southern way of life against an oppressive federal government.

For more than a century, white Southerners had overwhelmingly been Democrats, but in 1948 many bolted from the party, angered by Harry Truman's efforts to abolish or ameliorate the effects of racial segregation, and supported Strom Thurmond's third-party candidacy for president.

Over the next several decades, as the white South slowly realigned from the Democrats to the Republicans, the term came to have a broader usage.

The women's suffrage movement was for White women that didn't include Blacks.

Use an Encyclopedia next time! Just the facts please! Not your selective memory spin on History.

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@Techall

Tiger's dad was in the U.S. Army. All Military MWR courses have been open to anyone with an I.D. card since the 1970's and I played with lots of black friends on many courses. Please name the course Earl Woods was not allowed to play on.

You just answered your own question. Earl Woods graduated from college in 1953. Almost 20 years before the MWR courses was open to anyone with an I.D.(70's) Plenty of time to be discriminated against. Blacks didn't get the right to vote until 1965. That is more than 10 years. The better question is what courses would have allowed him to play?

Does no one do research before making any comments anymore?

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BLM

you haven't proved anything you said was right.

interested how often you listen to conservative commentary. sounds like you get your info from unreliable third party sources.

really should let those blinders fall off.

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@TunginCheke,

What are you talking about? You are truly lost aren't you? You have ignored all my posts including information quoted verbatim from encyclopedias about racism in America. What was your response? You change the subject. I watch Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

You don't really have a point or rebuttal about anything I have said about racism. When I go back and look at your comments they are just sweeping generalization with no examples or proof. No substance at all. It is OK, like many hear you are changing the subject and attacking character because you no very little about the topic. Do just want to talk someone?

Stick to the conversation of racism, OK?

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What more proof do I need to show?

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The ugliest racism in America is black on black. But I understand some people need a crutch.

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@4thEsatedotcom

So any other racism is better? LOL You nor TunginCheke has made sense this thread.

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"So any other racism is better?"

In asking the question - and with an LOL even - biglittleman casually agrees that black-on-black is the worst, most prevalent and corrosive racism in America.

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4thEstateDotcom Wrote:

In asking the question - and with an LOL even - biglittleman casually agrees that black-on-black is the worst, most prevalent and corrosive racism in America.

WOW, you don't even understand what your own words mean. In trying to use a trap based on logic to prove you are right and I am wrong -- 4thEstateDotcom convincingly proved he doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to racism and he doesn't know how to use logic. Too funny!

No Substance

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No need for traps. I trust in the vision outlined in our Constitution. Littlebigman should have a good long look at the 14th Amendment sometime. I believe wholeheartedly in a political system in which race no longer matters.

What do you believe in, littlebigman?

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@4thEstatedotcom

I believe you are changing the subject again. Stay on topic please.

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The topic is how much potency and relevance the term 'racist' has lost, through overuse by the ideologically bankrupt Left.

I believe wholeheartedly in a political system in which race no longer matters.

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Talk about racism, please. Stop changing the subject. You are turning into a nutcase.

Moderator regulate! LOL

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@4THeSTATEdOTCOM wrote:

LFRAgain would be more persuasive if he could provide a striking example of which he speaks; but he can't, which is why he resorts to insulting those who disabuse him of certain notions which probably serve as a crutch in his life.

then he writes:

The topic is how much potency and relevance the term 'racist' has lost, through overuse by the ideologically bankrupt Left, like LITTLEBIGMAN.

LOL!!! Ignorance must be so blissful for you. How can you walk upright and lean on that crutch at the same time?

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"The word is being sprayed in all directions, creating a hall of mirrors that is draining the scarlet R of its meaning and its power, turning it into more of a spitball than a stigma."

The drive-by media finally cottons on to what the rest of us have known for decades now...

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Of course, for the very reasons outlined above "sexist" and "homophobic" have also lost meaning and impact.

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BLM

Maybe by your low standards you may think you have supported your argument but your claims of racism are both unsubstantiated and wildly ridiculous.

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how the wingers try to hard to defend what is obvious and historical fact. Racism is the soul of the republican party. Without it the party would die as it stands for nothing else, well maybe greed is second.

The party is nearly pure white, the leaders are all white, the strategy for decades has been to use black images against whites to scare them into voting against their own best interests. They have zero blacks in Congress. Accident,no. The white crackers who run the party now want it this way so they can report back to their KKK backers that no dark people are in their party, only the democrats allow blacks to have power.

The truth is just so scary for the racist party. They want to pretend it is not so but you all know what you are and who you want in power.

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Zurc;

I would think a person who uses racially charged terms like "cracker" or "KKK backer" would know who the REAL racist is...

If racism is the "soul of the republican party", perhaps you could explain why the racism which occurred in the US deep south in the 1950s and 1960s invariably occurred under DEMOCRATIC Party governors. Or how the Republican party was born as a result of the anti-slavery movement in the US....

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Oh and zurcronium - you might want to have a look at the background of the longest-serving Democrat in the Senate, former Ku Klux Klansman Robert Byrd.

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Zurcronium might want to google image the name Michael Steele (Chairman of the Republican National Committee) and tell us what he sees.

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President Obama's administration and national figures in the Democratic Party are calling on New York Governor Paterson (one of only 2 black governors) to stand down for re-election.

But Obama openly supports John Corzine for his bid to retain the same position in New Jersey.

What's up with that?

"Racism", anyone?

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Tungincheke

James Strom Thurmond (December 5, 1902 – June 26, 2003) was an American politician who served as governor of South Carolina and as a United States Senator. He also ran for the Presidency of the United States in 1948 as the segregationist States Rights Democratic Party (Dixiecrat) candidate, receiving 2.4% of the popular vote and 39 electoral votes. Thurmond later represented South Carolina in the United States Senate from 1954 to April 1956 and November 1956 to January 2003, at first as a Democrat and after 1964 as a Republican, switching parties as the conservative base shifted. He conducted the longest filibuster ever by a U.S. Senator in opposition to the Civil Rights Act. He later moderated his position on race, but continued to defend his early segregationist campaigns on the basis of states' rights. Republican stance and viewpoint to this day.

Thurmond became a candidate for President of the United States on the third party ticket of the States' Rights Democratic Party, which split from the national Democrats over the proposed constitutional innovation involved in federal intervention in segregation.

Thurmond was increasingly at odds with the Democratic Party. In a notable incident on July 9, 1964, he assaulted Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough to prevent the Senate Confirmation of a moderate from Florida. On September 16, 1964, he switched his party affiliation to Republican. He played an important role in South Carolina's support for Republican presidential candidates Barry Goldwater in 1964 and Richard Nixon in 1968. South Carolina and other states of the Deep South had supported the Democrats in every national election from the end of Reconstruction to 1960. However, discontent with the Democrats' increasing support for civil rights resulted in John F. Kennedy barely winning the state in 1960. After Kennedy's assassination, Lyndon Johnson's strong support for the Civil Rights Act and integration angered white segregationists even more. Goldwater won South Carolina by a large margin in 1964.

BLM

Maybe by your low standards you may think you have supported your argument but your claims of racism are both unsubstantiated and wildly ridiculous.

LOL! Support for my claims come from what we call in the educated world call an American History book. I guess my standards are pretty low. Where does the support for your claims come from Osmosis? Ignorance shouldn't be worn like a badge of honor. LOL!

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@DS and tungincheke,

If racism is the "soul of the republican party", perhaps you could explain why the racism which occurred in the US deep south in the 1950s and 1960s invariably occurred under DEMOCRATIC Party governors. Or how the Republican party was born as a result of the anti-slavery movement in the US....

Here is your answer:

When President Johnson helped pass Civil Rights legislation in the 1960s he commented that: "Well, there goes the South." He meant, of course, that now the South would become Republican as they now saw the Democrats as the party standing up for the blacks.

Following the Civil War, the South defeated what little there was of Reconstruction when in a contested presidential election the Republicans under Hayes agreed to pull out Federal troops from the South in exchange for Hayes being president. After the troops wee gone, the whites took back any remaining outstanding power that blacks had and placed blacks in a new type of slavery: this one an economic slavery through the share-cropping system.

Southerners have traditionally dominated American politics to a greater extent than their proportional representation entitled them, because, although they were largely members of the Democratic party (because the South was poor), they could quickly shift their weight to the Republican party to pass conservative legislation or to block liberal legislation. They voted virtually as a block and this ability gave them legislative power. Southern Democrats were pretty solidly racist and voted to keep the racist system in place.

Following the Civil Rights legislation, the South temporarily lost some of its legislative power as its voters and politicians switched inexorably to the Republican party. This, of course, has made the Republican party even more conservative and racist than it had ever been following the death of Reconstruction.

The South also changed its religion. As the former Democratic South changed it allegiances in politics, so did it also start to change its allegiances in religion. In the days of the anti-slavery movement, when the Anglican ministers in the South would not support racism and pro-slavery sentiment, the South changed its religions to the more personal, evangelical religions whose ministers did support racism and slavery. An insistence on maintaining a racist structure leads also to an insistence on racists values and hence racist religions. Similarly, today's Southerners are abandoning the more staid evangelical religions for the highly personalized religions characterized by the phrase "born-again Christians." Whereas, many a Methodist or Baptist preacher would not now condone racism, the Southerners don't have to worry about this with their new preachers of born-again religion.

With the abandonment by the Southern Democrats of the Democratic party, blacks became somewhat more influential in the Democratic party, because the party was now much smaller than it had been. As a result, the Democratic party is somewhat more liberal than it used to be.

So the division between the two parties grew. The Republican party represented the wealthy industrialists and other rich persons, the South, and a good proportion of the working class and middle-class who were concerned that blacks were getting too much privilege in this country. (I watched a lot of coverage of the 2000 elections and I heard no one discuss the obvious: the entire old Confederacy went for the Republicans, plus the more rural parts of the Midwest -- with the exception of Ohio. So Bush won the election with a combination of the two R's: ruralism and racism. The networks are both too biased and/or too afraid of losing ratings by offending the South and Midwest, apparently.)

The Democratic party, although losing the South, did retain some of its traditional base, working class, some of the middle class, and the blacks. But by and large, the Democratic party was much weakened by the overall abandonment of the party by the South.

The end result was that the two parties now grew very far apart from each other ideologically speaking. The Republicans now had a very strong racist backing which made the party take very conservative stances. The Democrats had a cadre of liberals that kept its ideas in the liberal camp.

LOL! It is amazing how people are so ignorant about their own history.

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Entertaining post, lbm.

I like how you end your Wikipedia cut n paste with the admonition that "Ignorance shouldn't be worn like a badge of honor. "

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@4THeSTATEdOTCOM wrote:

LFRAgain would be more persuasive if he could provide a striking example of which he speaks; but he can't, which is why he resorts to insulting those who disabuse him of certain notions which probably serve as a crutch in his life.

then he writes:

The topic is how much potency and relevance the term 'racist' has lost, through overuse by the ideologically bankrupt Left, like LITTLEBIGMAN.

then Tungincheke writes:

Maybe by your low standards you may think you have supported your argument but your claims of racism are both unsubstantiated and wildly ridiculous.

LOL!!! How can you walk upright and lean on that crutch at the same time?

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biglittleman (11:26) - have you no shame? You are plagiarizing the work of some crank at

http://www.vernonjohns.org/rosemary1246/repubs.html

or else the google group

"Message from discussion Why I Lie All The Time And Hate America - Why Republicans Can Never Be Trusted"

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.news-media/msg/ba62543ef6ae0b4f
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@4thstatedot.com

Very funny 4thstate. Once again your powers of misdirection doesn't work.

Where is your rebuttal that the racist Democrats didn't become Republicans to continue their agenda? Where is your rebuttal how Republicans fight for States rights isn't a cover for oppressing groups that are not like majority demographic in the Republican party? Where is your rebuttal that Evangelicals didn't support slavery? Don't forget the Mormons support of slavery!

It is funny how someone who has a PHD in sociology and study this topic for a living becomes a crank when they show the true base of the Republican party.

Where the information is posted on the internet once it has been created has no bearing on the conversation. The same article can be taken and posted on a White supremacist site. Or the official Republican website. It still wouldn't change the truth in it. That is unless you can prove it is incorrect.

Are you willing to take the challenge? I must warn you considering your attempts at logic with me earlier it may be a little difficult for you. :)

Once again changing the subject are we? NO Substance. LOL!

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Oh, where is your rebuttal that Strom Thurmond, a Democrat originally, a known segregationist who fought to keep Blacks from being equals as whites, latter became a Republican to keep up the cause?

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@4thestatedotcom

blm - you yourself don't believe what you post about race in America. That is why you resort to plagiarizing.

LOL!!! You yourself don't believe what you post about race in America. That is why you resort to running away.

You are too funny!!!

See ya

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and the dems have ku klux klansman Senator Byrd, does that make the heart of the Democratic Party klansman?

LBM your assertions are ridiculous no matter how hard you try to twist reality to fit your twisted thinking.

The only thing that keeps African Americans from voting for the party of Abraham Lincoln is the continuous drive of the Democratic party to keep these people ignorant and dependent on the government.

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The "Racist southern Democrats became Republicans after the Civil Rights Act" argument - if you can call it that - overlooks all the racist notions held by northern Democrats like the liberal-progressive icon Wilson and of course FDR. JFK, supposedly the brave crusader for justice, voted against the Republican-sponsored Civil Rights Act of 1957. His brother RFK also infamously admitted that he wouldn’t lose any sleep worrying about "the plight of the Negro."

biglittleman loses again...

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If the South is so racist how to explain a major demographic shift of the last few decades - spanning the supposedly racist Republican control of the region - that sees blacks moving back to the South?

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@4thEstateDotcom

If the South is so racist how to explain a major demographic shift of the last few decades - spanning the supposedly racist Republican control of the region - that sees blacks moving back to the South?

LOL!!! Once again, misdirection. Changing he subject. Once again moving patterns of African Americans have no relationship about the racist base of the Republican party. No substance. LOL!!!

Read the long article again. It answers your question? You don't know how to use common sense. LOL!!

Stay on topic!!!!

@TunginCheke

You are sad!!! I have already explained it in the long article. Reread it and you will have your answer. If it is wrong then it should be easy to prove, right?

I asked 4thinlatatedotcom to try and he couldn't. What is your answer?

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The topic is how meaningless the term 'racist' has become.

Aside from that, I can only chuckle at how ignorant some outside America are about our political system.

From one of the many sources (wikipedia) that biglittleman earlier plagiarized:

"Founded by anti-slavery expansion activists in 1854, it is often called the Grand Old Party or the GOP, despite being the younger of the two major parties."

Good luck with your hang-ups about race.

You have my pity.

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Written by LFRagain

4thEstateDotCom, Don't willfully demonstrate your ignorance by trying to pretend 1800s Democrats and Republicans bear any similarities whatsoever with their modern counterparts. They are similar only in name.

Once again, no substance!!!

Sincerely,

BLM American citizen

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I am still waiting to hear about anything racist that the GOP has done. The conflicting views of history are nice, but aside from being long C&P sections of Wikipedia, they don't really explain much.

Modern racism has its roots in the deep South, in democratic politicians who wanted to preserve their racist history at all costs. A REPUBLICAN president (Eisenhower) used federal power to end school segragation.

One of the most racist things to do IMHO is to keep talking about it. This isn'T Mississippi in 1965 anymore.

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@4thEstatedotcom,

No substance!!! Care to prove the article wrong? I keep challenging you and you keep changing the subject. No substance!!!

@DS

I am still waiting to hear about anything racist that the GOP has done.

Example:

Sherri Goforth, an administrative assistant to state Sen. Diane Black, R-Gallatin, has admitted she sent the e-mail May 28 with the title "Historical Keepsake Photo." She said, without elaborating, that she mistakenly sent it "to the wrong list of people." The e-mail depicting President Obama as two cartoonish white eyes peering from a black background.

According to the Tennessean, a Nashville newspaper, a note on the e-mail said it was paid for by the Tennessee Republican Party

DS,

So do you deny that the racist element of the Democratic party followed Strom Thurmond and became Republicans. Or you saying Mr. Thurmond becoming a Republican and openly fought to make it the law to discriminate against Blacks was a lie. Or that Strom Thurmond wasn't a racist. Or are you saying Evangilcals like Mormons didn't support slavery.

I would like to see proof of that.

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Good article. 'Racist' has indeed lost the stigmatizing edge and silencing effect Leftists once valued it for and often disingenuously used it for. As "guilt icons" go it is pretty much impotent. Anyone who tries to wield it in modern America is increasingly seen as a loser and a crybaby.

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Sarge, personally it won't make a bit of difference to me if Obama turns out to be a good president or a bad one, but I find it incredibly amusing to watch Jed Clampet, Ellie Mae, Grannie and Jethro going into hysterics at those town hall meetings. Maybe you're right, it's not racism, they're just back in the fictitious Dogpatch USA, living in a time war

Exactly WHO is it that has the largest problem with the opponent? The GOP, Conservatives, etc... who have a problem with Obama's policies, or the left IN GENERAL who continue to stereotype/slander all the opponents?

You've softened the word "racist" so that it really doesn't mean anything anymore. Which is fine with most of us anyway. You've rarely shown the ability to use the word correctly anyway.

Where is Obama's lie? In the OMISSION. The left opposing verification of entitlement TWICE, using already existing systems that would not incur additional cost, is tacit acknowledgment that illegals were going to get access to government provided health-care. Saying that THIS BILL DOES NOT ALLOW IT, and then after being called a liar, amending the plan to specifically prohibit it - is another admission. If the bill DID NOT allow it to begin with, why change it afterwards?

The GOP has learned it's lesson in the first 8 months of the year. It's not what you Lib's put in the bill... it's HOW you leave it out that is cause for concern.

Besides... if any of you actually believe that there will be any bill put forth by the Democrats that doesn't include illegals... you're nuts.

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For myself, if I had to prove a null hypothesis that Republicans are not a racist political party, I would be looking hard for evidence that they are not. I do.

Horsecrap. It is blatantly obvious that you continually look hard for evidence that they ARE. And you're finding that "racist" boogeyman in everything a Republican does.

I especially like the "They are racists, you can see it in everything they do. And if they deny it, that proves it" slant you put in your "point".

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@Loki520

I have shown an article that explains the racism that exists within the Republican Party. Not all are but a large portion are racists. Are you saying that these historical events are all wrong and that none of it happened? If so I would like for you to prove it. If you can show with factual evidence then I will apologize. Care to take the challenge?

4thestatedotcom --No tungincheke -- No DS-- No

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So, you're wanting me to provide proof that there is NO racism in the Republican Party? Yet again, you tailor your "points" so that any opposition to your points are proof of the very point you profess to put forth.

Here's a challenge for YOU. Post your proof that the Democratic party is any LESS racist than the Republican Party. Care to take THAT challenge?

October 13, 1858 - During Lincoln-Douglas debates, U.S. Senator Stephen Douglas (D-IL) states: “I do not regard the Negro as my equal, and positively deny that he is my brother, or any kin to me whatever”; Douglas became Democratic Party’s 1860 presidential nominee

April 16, 1862 - President Lincoln signs bill abolishing slavery in District of Columbia; in Congress, 99% of Republicans vote yes, 83% of Democrats vote no.

Too old for you? Gonna start with the "things have changed arguement"? Ok, fine.

October 3, 1924 - Republicans denounce three-time Democrat presidential nominee William Jennings Bryan for defending the Ku Klux Klan at 1924 Democratic National Convention

September 30, 1953 - Earl Warren, California’s three-term Republican Governor and 1948 Republican vice presidential nominee, nominated to be Chief Justice; wrote landmark decision in Brown v. Board of Education

September 9, 1957 - President Dwight Eisenhower signs Republican Party’s 1957 Civil Rights Act

September 24, 1957 - Sparking criticism from Democrats such as Senators John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson, President Dwight Eisenhower deploys the 82nd Airborne Division to Little Rock, AR to force Democrat Governor Orval Faubus to integrate public schools.

On and on and on and on... Civil rights in the United States, and specifically that on behalf of the black people, were championed by the REPUBLICANS.

And I’m tired of the recitation that Southern Democrats became Republicans and took their racist tendencies with them. It didn’t take for the Clintons and Barack Obama (Democrats) long to trade race cards, did it?

The entire point being that you and your party of progressive's is just as guilty, IF NOT MORE, of racism throughout the history of the United States. You can revise history all you want, but the facts/dates/affiliations stand out pretty plainly for anyone getting their info from actual history instead of the left's talking points.

Are there racists on the right? Damn straight there are. Just as many, if not less (yes, I said LESS), than there are on the left. You're gonna have to find someone other than me to practice white guilt voodoo on. I don't have it - never had, never will.

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@Loki520

Too old for you? Gonna start with the "things have changed argument"? Ok, fine.

Once again, what's your point? You haven't said anything I haven't told people in my previous posts. If this year was 1957 then I would say you are right. Unfortunately, for you it isn't.

It very convenient how you stopped right at 1957. Especially, since I reported earlier that is when all the same racist Democrats started turning Republican. Did you just have a 62 year memory lapse. Most of your comrades seem to be suffering from the same thing. What you failed to mention was this:

President Franklin Roosevelt's electoral body in 1945 had included a diverse, in fact contradictory, set of elements — both conservatives and liberals, northern and southern Democrats and Republicans. By 1948, however, the civil rights issue revealed the real philosophical differences between northern and southern Democrats as never before. The move of Southern states from solidly Democrat to solidly Republican began to take place. In that environment, the Dixiecrats and the “Southern Strategy” was born.

At the 1948 Democratic National Convention, a group led by Senator Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota proposed some controversial new civil rights planks of racial integration and the reversal of Jim Crow laws to be included in the party platform. Southern Democrats were dismayed. President Harry S. Truman was caught in the middle for his recent executive order to racially integrate the armed forces. As a compromise, he proposed the adoption of only those planks that had been in the 1944 platform. That was not enough for the liberals. Truman's own civil rights initiatives had made the civil rights debate unavoidable.

The planks were adopted and 35 southern Democrats walked out in protest. They formed the States' Rights Democratic Party, which became popularly known as the Dixiecrats. Their campaign slogan was “Segregation Forever!” Their platform also included “states’ rights” to freedom from governmental interference in an individual's or organization's prerogative to do business with whomever they wanted.

New York moderate Nelson Rockefeller's defeat in the presidential primary election marked the beginning of the end of moderates and liberals in the Republican Party.

Clearer political and ideological lines began to be drawn between the Democrat and Republican parties as moderates and liberals converted from Republican to Democrat. Conservatives in the Democratic Party began to move to the increasingly conservative Republican Party.

Meeting in Birmingham, Alabama, the Dixiecrats nominated South Carolina governor Strom Thurmond as their presidential candidate, and Mississippi governor Field J. Wright, as their vice-presidential nominee. The party platform represented the openly racist views of most white southerners of the time. It opposed abolition of the poll tax while endorsing segregation and the "racial integrity" of each race. In the November election, Thurmond carried the states of Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Although Thurmond did not win the election, he received well over a million popular votes and 39 electoral votes.

By 1952, southern Democrats had concluded that they could exercise more influence through the Democratic Party and therefore returned to the fold. They remained in the Democratic fold, restive, until the candidacy of Republican conservative Barry Goldwater liberated them in 1964 by refreshing some of the Dixiecrat ideologies and therefore accelerated the transition from a solid South for the Democrats to one for the Republicans. Strom Thurmond switched to the Republican Party that year and remained there until his death in December 2003.

Other presidential candidates, such as Republican Richard M. Nixon in 1968, have effectively used the Southern strategy of "states' rights" and racial inequality to garner votes from the racially conservative electorate in the southern states.

the facts/dates/affiliations stand out pretty plainly for anyone getting their info from actual history instead of the left's talking points.

You are right it does. Just next time don't forget the last 62years in your fact checking.

Just as many, if not less (yes, I said LESS), than there are on the left.

Democratic racists, no doubt there are. It is more about belonging to a racial group than a political thing. You still need certain religious and political ideologies that is congruent with you prejudices. It doesn't make sense if they conflict with one another.

So if you subtract the ones from your ancient timeline then add the ones from the last 62years (hell just from 1957-1964) and I believe the Republicans will be in the lead on the number of racists.

Remember if you read the article those folks you identified as racist Democrats are now Republicans. Thank you.

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@Loki520

Oh! By the way, that last part just answered your challenge?

Care to take up mine now? Or are you going to continue to whine about how unfair the challenge is? Simply answering a challenge with a challenge makes your points weak.

Moderator: Readers, no more "challenges." Please stop sniping and focus your comments on the topic, not at each other.

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biglittleman, at 8:08, again forgot to cite the source he got his 'opinion' from so I'll do it

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1751.html
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I am still waiting for evidence of the "racist base" of the GOP. One admin assistant of a congressman sending a stupid picture just doesn't cut it.

Hell, you could make the argument that Obama is racist. He wants an incumbent BLACK governor (Paterson of New York) to remove himself from the gubernatorial race for the good of the Democratic party. Yet, the white governor of New Jersey is a similarly unpopular democrat and has not been told the same thing... Maybe Obama's 'cracker half' is taking over from his black half.

Both sides have racists. The DEmocratic ones tend to be the condescending type (Senator Boxer for example) who use race to try and win political points.

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@4thestatedotcom

Thanks! It still doesn't make it false. It just shows you have to change the topic because you have no substance. Thanks for pointing it out. LOL

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Everybody’s racist, it seems.

Everyone but me. I've long suspected that everyone else is racist, and I'm glad to see an article that proves I am right.

But if everybody’s racist, is anyone?

Yes, just look at all the racist posts above. That is my second proof. Sure, no one uses the N-word any more, but you can see it between the lines everywhere.

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@4thestatedotcom

biglittleman, at 8:08, again forgot to cite the source he got his 'opinion' from so I'll do it

Facts aren't opinions. Facts are used to support opinions. You don't understand that, it is the reason why you argument makes no sense. You are not using facts so you substitute it with opinion and no proof.

Thanks for showing us your faults in logic.

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Someone please buy biglittleman a clue that will help him understand the topic of this thread is not what he imagines about Dixiecrats and by extension something that must be true for the entire Republican Party but how the word 'racist' has lost the power it once had to enable liberals and progressives to advance their agenda through deceit and by poisoning the well when, as has been the case throughout history, they could not compete fairly and honorably in the marketplace of ideas.

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@DS

I am still waiting for evidence of the "racist base" of the GOP. One admin assistant of a congressman sending a stupid picture just doesn't cut it.

So despite the article saying:

According to the Tennessean, a Nashville newspaper, a note on the e-mail said it was paid for by the Tennessee Republican Party

That doesn't show that the Republican party isn't racist at all. Then you have totally ignored the Strom Thurmond comments. Do you think they were all made up by the leftist media?

what about this:

In a stunningly naive and/or racist move, a California women’s republican club sent out a newsletter depicting a satirical food stamp with Obama’s face on it. All well and good to question his position on welfare, but not if you add watermelon, fried chicken and kool-aid to the fake food stamp. The club president, Diane Fedele, defended the food stamp, saying it was poor judgment on her part but that it was not meant to be racist.

Fedele said the mailer merely parodied the statements Obama made during a debate last summer and wasn’t racist. “If I was racist, I would have looked at it through racist eyes,” she said. “I am not racist, which is why it probably didn’t register.” Club member Kristina Sandoval agreed. “None of us are racists,” she said. The use of watermelon, ribs and fried chicken was innocent, she said. “Everyone eats those foods, it’s not a racial thing.”

Funny how, totally coincidentally, those foods have been used to stereotype African-Americans.

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@DS

what about this:

Oh, dear. The Republicans have come up with a new racist insult against Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. They’re now refering to him as Osambo . Get it? Like Little Black Sambo?

On one level, this type of Jim Crow ugliness is disgusting. On a more subtle level, however, it’s reassuring. After all, the nature of this insult is completely devoid of substance, and yet it is vicious. That actually says something good about the strength of the Barack Obama campaign for President of the United States. It indicates to me that, on the one hand, the racist Republicans recognize Barack Obama as a serious threat to their cruel ideology, while, on the other hand, they cannot find anything substantially wrong with Barack Obama. In their tiny-minded frustration, they resort to calling him “Osambo”.

The right wing is getting particularly nasty, but that’s because they’re on the defensive. I don’t agree with every idea Barack Obama promotes, but on the whole he’s running a very responsible and quite strong campaign. That’s got to drive the Republican extremists crazy. Barack Obama disproves every hateful idea that the right wing clings to for security.

Keep up the good work, Mr. Obama, and rest assured that no matter what they call you, we’re evaluating your campaign according to its merits, which appear to be far superior to the merits of any of the Republicans in the race.

You can even check it out on the free republic forum. You don't see that on the democratic forums.

@4thestatedotcom

please show them the links to try and change the topic

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@DS

Tue, 05/27/2008 - 11:13am.

Today, Rush Limbaugh began a new line of openly racist attacks on Barack Obama. According to Limbaugh, Obama is "stupid." The racist part is Limbaugh’s assertion that Obama "probably didn’t get out of Harvard without affirmative action." As a college dropout, Rush Limbaugh probably doesn’t understand the use of blind grading in many law school classes. The idea that Barack Obama could not have graduated from Harvard Law School without preferential grading is one of the most ridiculous racist assertions made so far during this campaign.

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@DS

Do I need to remind you about the cd that was distributed in Republican Party? "Barrack the Magic Negro"

Do you really think NY and New Jersy governors examples compare to my examples?

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BLM;

I think they are all the same- just examples and anecdotes. None of which proves "the base" of the GOP is racist. First, you have to be clear about what "the base" is.

As for the song, you may remember that Newt Gingrich said about it, "This is so inappropriate that it should disqualify any Republican National Committee candidate who would use it." So,it hardly reflects the feeling of the party as a whole.

Musing on Obama's intelligence and grades is as racist as musing on Bush's. As for Obama's grades, he has not released them to the public, so any speculation about them is pointless.

As for Osambo, which GOP party member uses this term? is it generally favored?

You are suffering from Jimmy Carter Syndrome- assuming that any criticism of an African American must come from race and not simply be motivated by personal or political disagreements.

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I would think a person who uses racially charged terms like "cracker" or "KKK backer" would know who the REAL racist is...

Nice try DS. Fact is that the KKK is directly linked to the republican party, example of course is David Duke. Lots of examples of other connections to the white southern power base of todays republican party.

Of course some ignorant republicans who do not understand the party history may not agree with the racist policies of the republican party. But most republicans do, that is why they are republicans. They hate minorities and want to basically live in the past when racism was institutionalized and blacks rode in the back of the bus. Just like Limbaugh is proposing now.

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@DS

I never said any criticism of an African-american is racist. You are putting words in my mouth. No where on this website has been said.

The song put out by the GOP political figure to give to his constituents. Is that assuming?

The email by Tennesse GOP aide showing Obama in black face that said it was endorsed by the Tennesse GOP. Also to its constituents. Is that assuming too?

The California Women's club newsletter about Obama on food stamp with chicken and watermelon. Also to its constituents. Is that assuming too?

RNC convention when the vendors were selling waffle mix with OBama with big eyes,ears and lips like Sambo. Also to its constituents. Is that assuming too much?

A major Repblican forum calling Obama Little Black Osambo. Is that assuming too much?

If this was fringe element I would say you had a case but unfortunately, these are main stream political figures. Mass distributing this material to the Republican majority. Which means a large percentage agrees with this material. It is also funny how those of you have here haven't denounced or said you were in disagreement with these tactics.

Do see a pattern here with the GOP? I do.

I also noticed how you totally ignored some of my examples completely.

DE Nial apparently isn't just a river in Egypt.

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@DS

Rush Limbaugh wanting segregated buses.

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/17/limbaugh-we-need-segregated-buses/

See a pattern? I do.

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Zurcronium, comrade, Blacks rode on the back of the bus only in the South. Try to be more careful. It's people like you,with your sensational broadsides, who have taken the sting out of racist when us progressives try to educate teh wingers...

Peace.

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BLM, I did not ignore your examples, I dont think they are really relevant. You said, "THE BASE" of the GOP. You have yet to even determine what that means. All you are doing is throwing up charming anecdote after anecdote.

By the way, which "major republican forum" called the president 'Osambo'?

Zurc; The KKK started as a group to murder Republicans, among others. Later, it gained support and sympathy from Democratic party governors and mayors at the state and local levels. The only ex KKK member currently in congress is a Democrat.

Please tell me about the 'Racist policies' of the GOP. I'd love to hear them.

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@DS

It is called the free Republic.

Is the

Tennesse GOP

California Women's Club

The attendees at the RNC convention

Barrack the Magic Negro was distributed to all RNC members as christmas gifts.

are these groups not the base? Or are they just the political leaders which the Republican base follows and agrees with. Either way these are mainstream Republican groups. Can tell me when was the last time this happened in the DNC?

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@DS

No comments about Rush Limbaugh?

Does he not also represent the base?

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oops, California Republican Women's Club.

REPUBLICAN very important didn't want to forget about that.

All you are doing is throwing up charming anecdote after anecdote.

So racist depictions and words about our President based solely on his race that are mass distributed to the regular members of national political party is funny! By the major political leaders in the party!

Wow, no wonder you don't believe the current Republican party is racists.

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@DS

you wrote:

I think they are all the same- just examples and anecdotes. None of which proves "the base" of the GOP is racist.

What are examples suppose to be used for if not to show proof of something? By that logic, you will never get the proof you want because real proof is reality based facts and examples.

You must be living in a different world. I know some people at a private Christian school in Utah who teaches the Bible as science in their school. They are also Republicans. Not racist but just don't believe in proof and facts like your self.

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The CD, you conveninently dont mention, was universally CONDEMNED by the leaders of the GOP. THe man who distributed it had his career effectively ended.

Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer. He represents Rush Limbaugh.

Waffle mix? You are really stretching here. The same company also parodies Sarah Palin- check their website. Perhaps you arent aware, but "waffle" is a political term used to describe a politician whose positions change constantly, and who is reluctant to actually take a stand on an issue. Sound familiar?

I went tot the Free Repubic website and searched for "Osambo". No matches. On Google, there were exactly TWO references to Osambo and Free Republic, both comments by the general public and NOT made by the website itself.

Now, I have wasted enough time answering your baseless accusations. I'm STILL waiting to hear about the "racist policies " you claim the GOP supports. Time to sh!t or get off the pot.

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Strom Thurmond? Segregation laws?

Did we forget?

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@DS,

You are selectively forgetin Tennesse GOP and the California Republicans women's Club?

Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer. He represents Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, who is a Republican who is invited to speak at Republican political events. Who listeners who are also Republican and represents the Republican base.

I'm STILL waiting to hear about the "racist policies " you claim the GOP supports.

Second, I have argued that a large majority of Republicans are racist. I have shown you the proof.

You arguing something else. Stay on topic.

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@DS

I'm waiting time to step or shut up!

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If you think the Tennessee GOP and the California Women republicans are the equivalent to "a large majority of Republicans", then you need to study more math as well as history. If this is your 'proof', then you have nothing.

Do you want to talk about current politics or historical politics? You seem to mix them up a lot. Please narrow your focus and stay away from the fringes.

Each time I disprove one of your hyperbolic accusations, you simply ignore it and move on, dumping more trash. It is getting tiring. Here, for example, is what Limbaugh says about Obama: "He's my president, he's a human being, and his ideas and policies are what count for me."

The term "racist" is the new manifestation of "nazi". A convenient way to stop dialogue and criticism. Both were once powerful and now are meaningless.

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Maybe the term racist IS losing some of the sting it once had as a rebuke. Jon Stewart USED to be funny. But lately he is getting a little racist,attacking Obama and stuff. And last week he had a segment about community organizers called 'the Audacity of Hos' after he obviously fell for the rightwing propaganda about ACORN supposedly offering tax advice to a guy (an undercover winger, about the whitest guy you ever saw, posing as a pimp) who pretended to be organizing sex slave ring that would bring underage El Salvadoran girls to America.Yeah, Real funny, Jon.If you like Glenn Beck.

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@DS

Who exactly is the Republican base, then. It isn't Rush Limbaugh and the Republicans who listen to and follow him. His tens ofmillions or so Republican followers. It isn't the Tennessee GOP or its constituents the emails went to. It isn't the RNC convention planners who aloud said products to be sold at a National Convention. It isn't the Republican Women's club. The group for all the female Republicans in California.

For such a small fringe the numbers in the Republican party is quite impressive. Where is this elusive real Republican base on par with the Sasquatch and Unicorns no one is able to find? As many demographics, I have shown in my examples there aren't too many Republicans left. Who are they?

The term "racist" is the new manifestation of "nazi". A convenient way to stop dialogue and criticism. Both were once powerful and now are meaningless.

I'm glad you have said that because Nazi is the term to describe President Obama. It seems to be the term Republican demonstrators have saying at political rallies, townhall meetings and McCain rally's along with the N-word.

You believe those were just examples as you say. But you believe examples don't mean proof so why debate? Why not apply that to everything. Like law trials. Why have real life examples or testimony if they men nothing.

Each time I disprove one of your hyperbolic accusations, you simply ignore it and move on, dumping more trash.

What have you disproven? You said examples aren't proof. You haven't proof those acts were not racists, nor that it wasn't done by Republicans, you also haven't proven that those who did the racist acts don't have large followings in the Republican party.

You have proven the word racist doesn't mean as much anymore. You are a prime example that believes racism doesn't exist within the Republican party despite the evidence that proves otherwise.

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@seijichuudo9sha

I don't think Jon Stewart was being racist. If Obama, isn't doing right by his constituents that voted for him, then he deserves to be criticized based on his actions. Not because he is Black which is why many Republicans and others don't support him.

If Acorn is doing some shady stuff. Call them out too. Especially,if they are not abiding the laws and original message the organization was founded on. Two wrongs don't make a right. If not they will just be causing more problems for those who are trying to make a difference for everyone in the name of progress.

It still doesn't change the fact that a large majority of racist are in the Republican party.

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The South is not as easily pigeon-holed as some here would like to. George Wallace was a racist and a segregationist and a Democrat who challenged Carter in '76. George Wallace won his final run for governor of Alabama with the overwhelming support of blacks in that state.

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You haven't proof those acts were not racists, nor that it wasn't done by Republicans, you also haven't proven that those who did the racist acts don't have large followings in the Republican party.

Of course I haven't. I didnt make the claim that they were. You did, so it is up to you to either prove or withdraw the claim. Disproving negatives is damn near impossible anyway.

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George Wallace was a racist and a segregationist and a Democrat who challenged Carter in '76. George Wallace won his final run for governor of Alabama with the overwhelming support of blacks in that state.

You mean this Wallace?

Wallace became a born-again Christian in the late 1970s and apologized to black civil rights leaders for his earlier segregationist views. He said while he once sought power and glory, he realized he needed to seek love and forgiveness. In 1979 when blacks began to vote in large numbers in Alabama, Wallace himself said of his stand in the schoolhouse door: "I was wrong. Those days are over and they ought to be over."His term as Governor (1983–1987) saw a record number of black appointments to government positions. In the 1982 Alabama gubernatorial Democratic primary, Wallace's main opponents were Lieutenant Governor George McMillan and Alabama House Speaker Joe McCorquodale. In the primary, McCorquodale was eliminated, and the vote went to a runoff with Wallace holding a slight edge over McMillan. Wallace won the Democratic nomination by a margin of 51 to 49 percent.

In the general election, his opponent was Montgomery Republican mayor Emory Folmar. Most polling experts[who?] said this was the best chance since Reconstruction for a Republican to be elected Alabama governor.

George Wallace achieved four gubernatorial terms across three decades, totaling 16 years in office.

@4thestatedotcom

You just showed us that Blacks are not as racist as you made them out to be and also quite forgiving of others. You have also showed us the timeline of when the Democratic party started to becoming more integrated despite its racist beginnings.

Let's talk about his opponent in that last election and why he won it. Something you failed to mention by accident of course. He is also a Republican:

Emory Folmer's

Folmar's controversial stances were cast at the outset of his political career in the 1970s in highly-controversial City Council votes along racial lines. Among them were the championing of a vote to spend a large portion of federal grant money on a public golf course & softball fields on the predominately-white east side of the city rather than using all of the grant money to end urban blight by providing necessary city utility infrastructure on the predominantly-black west side. Many western areas of the city are without utility infrastructure over 25 years later.

A number of incidents involving his hard-line stances include long-time racial tensions between the police and black citizens which zeroed in on Folmar's leadership as the precursor; as mayor, he was known to be the true, de-facto leader of the city's police force and he routinely furthered that image by getting proactive in on-the-scene police investigations and was known to carry a pistol. He instructed police on night-watch 3rd shift to start wearing SWAT-team, military-style black uniforms & baseball-style black caps. A notorious incident happened on Todd Rd. in 1983 when 2 white police detectives allegedly barged into a home where black mourners had gathered after the funeral of a grandmother. The detectives were following up on a missing person case and observed a suspecious subject outside the residence. The detectives were held hostage and beaten by the black occupants and held until other police arrived, who subsequently arrested the mourners under allegations of assault & torture of the officers, with resulting claims by local black leaders of police abuse during questioning of the suspects.

Folmar was quoted in 1997 using the word "queer" publicly in a detrimental fashion noting his disapproval of the lifestyles of gay & lesbian individuals.

Good point!

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Using your logic, biglittleman, I also showed that apparently it is Christianity - the faith into which Wallace was born again and undoubtedly the same faith of all those forgiving Southern blacks - which is the answer to ending "racism."

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I see we can add to littlebigman's habit of plagiarizing wikipedia and 'Why I Hate America' google user groups the irritating and uncivil tendency to put words in other people's mouths.

"You just showed us that Blacks are not as racist as you made them out to be and also quite forgiving of others."

Nowhere have I said blacks are racist. Blacks are people. People are sometimes racist. Please try and debate like an adult.

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BLM

clearly objectivity does not appear to be in your vocabulary.

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@4thestatedotcom

The ugliest racism in America is black on black. But I understand some people need a crutch.

then you said

Nowhere have I said blacks are racist.

Care to rephrase that?

I also showed that apparently it is Christianity - the faith into which Wallace was born again and undoubtedly the same faith of all those forgiving Southern blacks

You didn't show anything. You tried to show Black people voted for a racist Democrat. You didn't say he denounced it and apologized to the Black people. You didn't show anything else. I did. I also showed the Republican was the racist.

Nowhere did it say the religion of the Blacks. Some could have been Muslim, Hebrew or Budhist.

@Tungincheke

clearly objectivity does not appear to be in your vocabulary.

Apparently it does seem to be in 4thestatedotcom or your vocabulary.

Your funny you haven't made a point yet. LOL!!!!

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"The word is being sprayed in all directions, creating a hall of mirrors that is draining the scarlet R of its meaning and its power, turning it into more of a spitball than a stigma."

The good news - if you are tired of liberals telling you they can read your thoughts and they just know you are "racist" - is that charges of racism are beginning to undo the work of environmentalists.

A recent lawsuit filed in Virginia claims carpool lanes benefit wealthy white people (you know - "rural", got big families) and discriminate against minorities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think Wilson's comments came from his pocket, and the people who line his pocket. I don't think it had to do with race.

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@4th

Once again ignoring information,then change the subject. Typical Republican.

No substance. LOL!!!!

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"I think Wilson's comments came from his pocket, and the people who line his pocket. I don't think it had to do with race."

And those who line Obama's pockets, no comment?

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Zurcronium, comrade, Blacks rode on the back of the bus only in the South. Try to be more careful. It's people like you,with your sensational broadsides, who have taken the sting out of racist when us progressives try to educate teh wingers...

Anyone who thinks that racist activity was limited to the south knows nothing about US history. The racism in the south was more blatant but anywhere in the US there were laws or policies in place to prevent blacks or other minorities to have full rights as Americans. This is what the republican party aspires to recreate with its attacks on the black president and fear tactics they use nationwide to get racist voters to vote for them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But if everybody’s racist, is anyone?

What is "yes, everyone."

I'll stay with Inanities, for 1000 please, Alex.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

zzzzz.....

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I get a kick out of the people here trying to paint the Democratic Party as racist by pointing out things that happened almost a half a century ago while completely ignoring the antics going on now.

That's true dedication to delusion and denial (and a lot of D's).

Taka

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4thEstateDotCom

George Wallace won his final run for governor of Alabama with the overwhelming support of blacks in that state.

You've turned the act of cherry picking facts into an art form.

George Wallace received black support in 1982 because in the 1970s, as a born-again Christian, he entirely renounced his racist and segregationist stances, apologized unequivocally to civil rights leaders and the black community in general, and promised to (and did) appoint several blacks to key state posts in the Alabama state government.

Not one of your better efforts to prop up an already flawed argument.

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"George Wallace received black support in 1982 because in the 1970s, as a born-again Christian, he entirely renounced his racist and segregationist stances, apologized unequivocally to civil rights leaders and the black community in general, and promised to (and did) appoint several blacks to key state posts in the Alabama state government."

That doesn't change the fact that he was, like most Southern Democrats of his time - including the unreconstructed racist LBJ - an avowed segregationist until it was no longer politically feasible.

There is no single 'point' to be made when the thread is an opinion piece about race.

On threads like this and when dealing with uninformed extremists and those who deal purely in stereotypes (like zurcronium, for example) I prefer to simply point out certain paradoxes and ironies in the American system - like the standing ovation the Republican Tom Tancredo, staunchly opposed to illegal immigration, received at the 2007 NAACP convention, or how black voters in California voted overwhelmingly against the proposition legalizing gay marriage.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

More ad hominem tactics from the above poster. So typical of the republican racists who deny what the Palin and Beck republicans are all about, hatred of the other.

Republicans for the most part are a whites only group and are aging rapidly. Its so strange to see white retired teabaggers on medicare calling Obama a socialist monkey, while they take their meds daily courtesy of taxes collected from workers. Its not socialism when they benefit from government spending it seems.

The decent moral republicans are leaving the party to the racists and the bible thumpers, often the same thing. Over time they will just be honest and rename the party the dixiecrats and call for the return to slavery.

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4thEstateDotCom,

"I prefer to simply point out certain paradoxes and ironies in the American system . . . "

There are plenty, I would agree. However . . .

" . . . the standing ovation the Republican Tom Tancredo, staunchly opposed to illegal immigration, received at the 2007 NAACP convention

. . . isn't one of them.

" . . . how black voters in California voted overwhelmingly against the proposition legalizing gay marriage."

. . . Nor is this. How does being black automatically make one pro-illegal immigration? How does being black and opposing gay marriage constitute a paradox, much less irony, particularly when black opposition to gay marriage is rooted in religious beliefs, and not race?

It seems you want to lump all minorities of whatever belief, faith, persuasion, political bent, or gender into the same boat and paint them with the same brush, in order to reach some predetermined conclusion about a particular group that fits your worldview, and the truth is it’s never ever that simple. A Liberal can be anti-illegal immigration, and many are. A Conservative can be pro-choice, and many are. Just as a black person can be Republican, pro-life, anti-tax, and pro-business, and still want improvement in race relations in America. There’s nothing contradictory or ironic about that.

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LFRagain,

He want respond to your comments. He will simply change the topic.

No substance.

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biglittleman,

I'm getting that feeling judging by how random most of his posts are on any given topic. Sigh... Oh, well. No harm in hoping, I suppose.

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American's play the race card way way to much, sure there are times and places where it's okay but it seems everything in America now is race, race race

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It's clear: America is a post-racial country, has been for decades. Anyone still trying to paint others as 'racist' is a crybaby, a race-baiter desperate for an angle, or a liberal who is trying to end a debate she knows she can only lose.

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@4thEstateDotCom

It's clear: America is a post-racial country, has been for decades. Anyone still trying to paint others as 'racist' is a crybaby, a race-baiter desperate for an angle, or a liberal who is trying to end a debate she knows she can only lose.

Is that what Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh did when they called President Obama a racist.

Or when you called Black people racist.

4thestatedotcom wrote:

The ugliest racism in America is black on black. But I understand some people need a crutch.

So you are a :

crybaby, a race-baiter desperate for an angle, or a liberal who is trying to end a debate she knows she can only lose.

I'm glad you are so honest about who you truly are.

Moderator: Readers, please keep the discussion civil.

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The fact you have been calling Democrats and others racist then say a person who use the word a cry baby is simply hilarious! I don't know what's funny you own hypocrisy or the fact your logic doesn't make sense. You are too funny. LOL!!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Not mention you had no comment about Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck using the word! Too funny. LOL!!!

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4latenitcum would be more persuasive if he could provide a striking example of which he speaks; but he can't, which is why he resorts to insulting those who disabuse him of certain notions which probably serve as a crutch in his life.

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America is post-racial. This article is right - 'racist' has lost its meaning and the once-useful capacity to end debate that soi-disant liberals and progressives were losing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So you are not going to comment about Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck using the word! Too funny. LOL!!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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