travel

How airlines deal with 'customers of size'

46 Comments
By David Landsel

You're paying more to travel, and not just for your plane ticket. Every pound counts as the number of carriers charging for all pieces of checked luggage racks up. So it stands to reason that the public might wonder why airlines don't charge extra for passengers with significant overages of a more, uh, personal nature.

Southwest Airlines calls them "customers of size." Medical professionals would use the term "clinically obese." Bloggers and message board habitues use names that are less polite, but all imply that the passengers in question are overweight.

Many people assume that obese people are getting something of a free ride. But are they? Nearly all airlines keep it very quiet, but many have policies - informal or formal - in place to make sure that passengers of size carry their own weight.

It's a tricky business, Airfarewatchdog.com has found. In some places - Canada, for instance - it just got trickier. A winter ruling barred Canadian airlines from discriminating against "clinically obese" customers. Southwest was successfully sued by a passenger who was told she needed to purchase a second seat after she had already boarded - too late, the ruling found. An ample Air France passenger won a case after citing humiliation at the hands of staff who wrapped packing tape around him in public to prove that he was too fat to sit in one seat, forcing him to purchase another.

Here's the funny part about those lawsuits: At the time, both Southwest and Air France had official policies in place for dealing with overweight passengers. Southwest's policy has been around for years. It states that if staff members determine that the passenger will not fit in one seat, the passenger must purchase a second, a cost which will be reimbursed if the flight is not full.

Air France's policy was looser, urging passengers who knew that not having an empty seat next to them would be a problem, to handle it on their own in advance. (As of this writing, Air France passengers "with a high body mass" are warned that if they do not purchase an extra seat, they may not be allowed to board.) In the end, both airlines were punished for being up-front with their customers, even if the execution of the policy perhaps needed work. This is, after all, a terrifically sensitive matter.

Different airlines, different policies

Perhaps that is why, for many airlines, the topic tends to be along the lines of "That Which We Don't Speak Of." Ask United Airlines what rules it has in place for dealing with the situation, and you'll hear a pregnant pause, followed by a terse "We have no policy."

American Airlines is more forthcoming, but hastens to emphasize that in no way does it require its passengers to purchase two seats. Spokesman Tim Wagner said passengers whose weight exceeds 250 pounds should know that there are "possible limitations that could result in American not being able to accommodate them." He also said that the airline urges passengers to "recognize ahead of time that they may need to purchase two seats." Wagner also cited an FAA regulation to which all airlines adhere: If you can't snap the seatbelt (after the extension is added, that is), you can't fly.

JetBlue Airways doesn't mind taking a more straightforward stance. Spokesperson Alison Eshelman said its policy "requires" larger customers who need an additional seat for their own comfort to buy one in advance. If they do not, and the crew cannot accommodate them, they will be required to buy the seat in any case, with no refunds. (However, Eshelman noted, truthfully, that JetBlue does offer its passengers a little more wiggle room with its larger-than-average seat width on board the airline's A320 aircraft.)

Does size matter?

But what of the growing awareness among the traveling public that it costs the airline more to transport an obese passenger than a passenger of average weight? Those hoping for any type of joy in that department should sit on their hands. Delta's Susan Elliott said that the airline "has no plans to implement any policy that discriminates against any of our passengers." Translation: This is one hot potato nobody is going to touch.

Here's a look at how different airlines deal with the "customer of size."

Southwest Airlines

Passengers should plan on purchasing an extra seat or risk being asked to do so at the airport by staff. If the flight is not sold out, the passenger may claim a refund.

American Airlines

The airline states that passengers over 250 pounds should recognize that there may be limitations to the service that the airline can provide. However, it does not require that you purchase an extra seat automatically.

United Airlines

The airline has no policy whatsoever.

Midwest Airlines

As with Southwest, passengers are encouraged to know their needs in advance. If staff members determine that two seats are required, the seat will be sold at the lowest possible fare, with a refund available if there is one or more open seats on the flight.

Air France

Passengers with "high body mass" may receive a 25 percent discount on an extra seat, knowing that if they choose not to buy the seat, they may risk not being able to fly.

JetBlue Airways

You are required to buy a second seat, and there are no refunds.

Delta Air Lines

The airline "works to accommodate" passengers with special needs. Upon request and availability, it will try to make sure the next seat is unoccupied. However, if the plane is full, you will most likely be asked to leave the flight and buy a second seat on the next available flight. (You can actually count on this being a fairly typical practice on most airlines.)

© Airfarewatchdog.com

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

46 Comments
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So, if I happen to be sitting next to a "customer of size", do I get a refund based on the percentage of MY seat that person is overflowing into?

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This is indeed a very tricky issue.

It doesn't help when we read articles like the one above that include ridiculous lines like

In the end, both airlines were punished for being up-front with their customers, even if the execution of the policy perhaps needed work. Perhaps needed work? Air France staff humiliate a passenger by wrapping packing tape around him? Telling someone who has already boarded the plane that they have to buy another ticket? Unbelievable, in both cases.

I think skinny people (myself included) have no right to judge people (who want to fly) for being overweight. Are airlines going to give discounts to very short, thin people? To anorexics? My friends with kids, very small kids, have not yet reported to me reduced flight prices for them. Surely a 25kg child (or less) deserves to pay much less, if a fat person is going to be required to pay more ?

Where to draw the line?

I have fat people in my family and I would be outraged if they were disrespected or humiliated by some bigoted airline staff.

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The cost of the airfare should be based on a TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE PASSENGER PLUS THEIR LUGGAGE. Acceptance of check-in luggage is already subject to acceptable dimensions. So why can't the same be applied to the passengers. Pretty harsh perhaps, but we're all paying through the nose for fuel, and he airlines are doing everything they can to make the craft lighter.

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They need to do weigh-ins: passenger + luggage. Priced per hundred grams, just like at the deli.

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Altria - "...just like at the deli."

Proving what we already knew - that we are really just pieces of meat.

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Agreed. Airfares should be based on total weight of passengers and luggage. Why should anyone subsidize someone else's obesity?

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Agreed. Airfares should be based on total weight of passengers and luggage. Why should anyone subsidize someone else's obesity?

How ridiculous would that be? Forget about obesity being a problem here, think about whole nations body differences around the world, in general terms, Asians would always fly cheaper than Africans, simply because Asians are, on average, of a lesser body mass than most of the Western world.

In personal terms, as a person of 6'5" with lower than average body fat, but still weighing in at 240lbs, I have to pay more than double the fair of my 115lb wife? Thanks very much, so now aside from the fact that I am often cramped due to my height, I would have to pay double fair for the privledge?

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"In personal terms, as a person of 6'5" with lower than average body fat, but still weighing in at 240lbs, I have to pay more than double the fair of my 115lb wife?"

Yup. You cost more fuel to travel the same distance compared to your wife.

Regarding the cramped space, that's why I don't mind paying extra for the business class seats or Green Cars in Japan.

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I wouldn't be half the fare for a half weight person, just half the cost of the fuel.

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I totally agree with Ausintokyo, due to the rational nature of his argument.

think about whole nations body differences around the world, in general terms, Asians would always fly cheaper than Africans, simply because Asians are, on average, of a lesser body mass than most of the Western world.

Why can some people not grasp how riduculous it is to say that the fare, or even the fuel charge, should be based on the total weight of luggage + passenger ??

So a person in a wheelchair would have to pay a fare that included the weight of his/her wheelchair? And before you say that a wheelchair is a medical necessity and extra fat isn't... let me remind you that some people do have weight problems based on medical disorders. And even if that is only a small percentage, how to differentiate between those with a medical condition and those who became fat due to their habits/lifestyle? A doctor's note? Yes, with over-crowded hospitals and clinics, that's a good use of a doctor's and a patient's time... ?

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United Airlines

The airline has no policy whatsoever.

I thought UA's policy was to take the biggest passengers and seat them next to TelecasterPlayer?

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Except for the super overweight, 1 passenger takes 1 seat. Even if 1 guy weights in at 50kg or less, he will still require 1 seat. Extra weight for a person affects fuel costs only, whereas luggage also take up space in the cargo hold. Paying proportionally to your weight and luggage is absurd: It affects only fuel consumption (so should impact only fuel surcharge), and not to a huge extent since passengers + cargo accounts for 1/3 the weight of an aircraft maximum. (1/2 the weight is the aircraft itself, and the rest is fuel)

Most airlines publish that total fuel costs are about 40-50% of a ticket (they used to be about 15%!), and the passenger's own weight account for 30% of that cost. Therefore passenger's weight + luggage should account for 15% of the ticket, so Kwaabish, being twice his wife's weight, would end up paying about 7.5% more than she does - if she doesn't make up for it with luggage, like my girlfriend does every time we travel.

I guess the difference is still significant, but not enough for the airlines to go through the hassle of implementing it. After all, since they'd have to compensate lighter-than-average passengers, they don't stand to gain anything from it!

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Ooops, I meant to take Ausintokyo and his wife as an example, not kwabish. I hope none of you took offense, and I'm certainly not implying that any of you are overweight.

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I think the only reason someone should pay extra is if they're so big that they overflow into a second seat. It's unfair to the customer who paid for the seat if a large person next to them is encroaching. If there are no extra seats on the plane the obese person should wait for the next flight or should have bought two tickets in advance, if there are extra seats they should shift 'em around so that the horizontally advanced person can have extra room, although once again, they should have bought 2 tickets or a first class ticket.

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Kissmint:

" Why can some people not grasp how riduculous it is to say that the fare, or even the fuel charge, should be based on the total weight of luggage + passenger ?? "

I don`t see it is ridiciulous. It is simply a recognition or reality. More mass to lift take more energy, as simple as that. That individual situation are different and and some will be disadvantaged, is a given. The same is also true if you try to politically correct and ignore the weight issue. Or do you want to be seated between two "passengers of size" on the left and right of you?

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There are some good suggestions here, but we need to be clear. There are TWO factors here, not one.

1) Total weight

2) Cabin space used

Both factors need to be considered with regard to obese people. The first factor should - to be perfectly fair - be applied to everyone.

Some average weight allowance should be determined, and those who fall below would get a discount.

A fat person who purchases two seats should also have more total weight allowance (== 2 x WA), which means they would automatically qualify for a discount unless they also packed too much luggage (a spare meal, for example).

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1) Total weight

2) Cabin space used

I think total weight should be irrelevant, but i think cabin space used should be taken into account.

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I think total weight should be irrelevant, but i think cabin space used should be taken into account.

Agreed.

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worst case scenario on any flight is to be beside some fat slob, even worse than crying baby, globs of flesh spilling into my space, all sweaty charge them more, why not, they take more space, cost more fuel, why should we suffer for them?

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Another solution.

Put these large lard a$$es in one section of the plane (i.e. rows 33-45). Seat them together and maybe then they'll understand our point of view.

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It actually stands to reason to do... Maybe not fair, but how was it fair for me with 125 lbs weight to pay $700 for 44 lbs extra luggage, more than the actual ticket (flight St. Petersburg, Russia - Tokyo, Japan)

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It's a seat issue, not human proportions. Airline seat rows are designed for maximum human occupancy. Cram them in. Airlines need to see how trains handle seating. Bench-type rows may be the answer.

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spot on nigelboy!

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Throughout most of commercial aviation history the passenger was weighed along with his/her luggage and that was the price determinate (also the practical loading limit to the number of passengers --the pilot needs to know if the plane can take off).

It's only with the advent of large 'freight' style aircraft, that will use the majority of their fuel expenditure just flying, full load or empty, that the notion of 'standard fares' came into being --a marketing ploy to entice the public to actually fly someplace.

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http://flyderrie-air.com/

It is gross when someone next to you oozes into your space. I've been lucky so far, but I have seen some really enormous people on planes,and the squished people next to them. The biggest person I've sat next to was a weightlifter,not too bad. Just his shoulders were huge. I'd hate to get stuck in a middle or window seat and have the person on the aisle be 450 pounds...in an emergency these people won't be able to move or react. Being that overweight is so limiting in so many ways.

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I find those systems absolutely disgusting. Weight is not the only issue. People are different. What about tall people that need more leg space ? Do they need to reserve the seat in front of them too ?

Every airline should have different types of seats, a majority of average seats, a few larger ones, a few longer ones, a few equiped to add the baby (if possible on the sides, where the noise will disturb less than just under the screen as i've seen several times). And certainly it's technically possible to adapt seat and space for each flight these days : Make a line for 3 big guys, and for the next flight it becomes a line for 5 thin kids, or 4 average persons, or one big dad, an average mum and 2 thin kids together. They can already match you with other passengers when they want. Once in Amsterdam, because I was the "only one of my kind", at the check in they let me choose between an old German couple that seemed to speak French, a Dutch women with 2 kids, cute Japanese men of 3 different ages... Next time, they'll have a sort of second life screen with your figure and will show you : "Here this seats fits you, the man on the left speaks Tibetan and Quechua like yourself, you were in the same highschool as the girl on the left..."

That would be normal to charge a special seat fee (maxi 25% in my opinion), but certainly not to ask people to get a "you have 2 bums ticket".

For myself, I would prefer a standing area with a few folding benches and a water fountain. I walk and stand half of the time, sleep the second half and I never touch what they call meals. On most long flights, I've seen a dozen of persons trying to do that too, maybe as many that didn't dare. Put us together in one section, we won't take more space.

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Well I agree with the person from St. Petersburg, Russia, why must I or anyone pay for extra luggage weight, when somebody twice or even 3 times my/our weight, doesn't pay for that excess weight. I weigh 160lbs, people are so damn politically correct these days it is disgusting, just like the enormous beasts that wander the earth in herds these days. How is that fair? Seriously, nobody in their right mind can call it fair, nobody forced fat fatty to keep eating to the point they are the size that they are. Airlines should invoke a 350lb weight limit per person to include luggage...I think I am being a bit giving with that much weight in all honesty. If you go above that weight you pay a penalty. If some fat lard wants to bitch and moan about having to get on a scale and making a ridicule of themself, well guess what...LOSE WEIGHT, if you are afraid of being made fun of or whatever, do something about it or don't fly. People these days are so scared to call out what they see in front of them, ohhhh I can't offend him/her or them. What the hell happened to society when one can't actually speak their mind for fear of being sued or whatever else. Thankfully I myself am not a sheep and I will call things how I see them, if it offends you, well guess what the shoe fits, or in this case maybe it doesn't because you ate too damn much and lack self respect.

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As both fuel prices and airfare soar like rockets, the issue of people taking two spaces and yet paying for one will have to be addressed. I guess it will only be squarely addressed once unavoidable, which is once airfare becomes a luxury.

I am petite, around 5' and on a healthy weight. I am not bone-thin and yet I get plenty of room to move in an economy class seat. There's been one occasion when I was on a flight from the US to Narita, I was sitting on the window seat in a three-seats row, and the man in the middle seat overflowed to both my seat and the lady's sitting on the aisle. That was most awful. He was very uncomfortable as well (he couldn't even open his seat's tray, his body pressed against the seat in front of him) and every time I had to go out, both the lady and he had to -leave- their seats. He was like, twice or more my volume. If he would have got himself two seats, that lady and I wouldn't have to spend 13 hours in Purgatory.

Talk about HIS comfort and safety, as well. What if he would have choked on something, have a heart attack or fainted? If I was suffocating at times, how did he feel squished into that space? It would have been impossible to remove him from his seat to give him aid! I think that, at least, clinically obese people should be put in front rows. There's more leg space AND it'd be easier to take care of them if any accident should occur to them. I think clinically obese people should be prepared to buy a second seat. Maybe they could be offered a discount, or be charged an extra to go on business class; but in any case they shouldn't be allowed to seat in a single seat on economy class - not only because they put great discomfort on long haul flights (or any flights) adjacent passengers, but because of their very own safety.

Anyone with a difficult medical condition is usually prepared against it when taking a long trip; well just as stocking medications, getting a second seat in the case of the clinically obese comes just as a need, not a luxury or a punishment. They NEED that additional seat, and that is all. Travel agencies should "suggest" and gently "warn" the clinically obese to purchase a second seat, under warning that if they refuse they might be requested to buy one at the check in counter or else, be unable to board the plane if the flight is full.

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Well, maybe one point that needs to be discussed...seat sizes will always be set, and if the size of the person exceeds the size of the seat, two things occur: First the person is not safely secured in the seat, and second, the passengers next to them are inconvenienced. Obviously, larger seats are more expensive for the airline, and while the best and safest option would be to provide a least SOME large seats, I don't think the airport should be prevented from recovering the extra costs from the people who use them.

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Airlines do have seats of different sizes: Economy, Business, First. If someone cannot fit in an Economy seat, it would be a good idea to make them buy one bigger seat rather than two Economy tickets. How do sumo wrestlers fly? I assume First Class.

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It's not only the passengers nex to the XXLL size person who is inconvenienced. Also the passenger in front suffers. I know as I was on the most unpleasant receiving end for 12 hours of pushing and kicking on a long flight some months ago. The ob... person could not be relocated, nor I, as the flight was fully booked.

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The weight is not really an issue, just if people need one seat or two. The weight of individual passengers is negligible compared to the weight of the aircraft itself.

If people need 2 seats they should have to pay for 2 seats.

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I take issue with the part about individuals over 250 buying a second seat. I'm over 250 and I fit fine in a regular, cattle-class, seat. Of course I'm 193cms tall and go to the gym everyday. No way will I be lumped into the same category with someone that has "let themselves go". I especially take issue with airlines that put short, elderly people in the exit row seats when they are obviously unable to fulfill the requirements (be able to lift 50 pounds) when these seats could be better used for taller customers who won't destroy their knees sitting behind other people and prevent them from reclining their seats. If we're discussing charging extra for annoying passengers (overflowing their seats). I would rather sit next to an obese person than a family with a child that screams through the entire flight. Maybe the airlines should penalize those people unable to control their children.

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Why can’t we just call fat people what they are,fat? How they got that way is really not my business any more than it is my business how somebody ended up with three screeming kids & why they have to travel half way round the world on the same plane as me.

Adding to this is that they pay the same seat price as me. And don’t tell me a baby weighs less, that in it self is too obvious, but have you ever seen a mother & baby with less than twice the luggage that you have?

I am not allowed to smoke on a plane because it upsets other people, fine, I can accept that, so why must I be “upset” by these people who think that fat & baby are just fine & I must be a monster for not wanting them anywhere near me? I weigh 61Kg & yet I am reading about weights of 250Kg being alright, no they are not.

There should be a simple rule for all, you walk up to the check in & you & your luggage are weighed & you pay accordingly. No, not double price because it is really only the extra fuel that fat people should be paying for.

As for offending somebody by saying they are fat, well if they are they are, get real & face the facts of life. If it is used as an insult then yes, but if you are stating a fact because you are talking about weight & seat sizes, that is not an insult.

Think of this, a special new diet centre has just opened in XXX & it has proved to be amazing good, so a diet club at YYYY sends 100 of it’s member to try out this new centre. What happens, plane can’t get off the ground or crashes through shortage of fuel half way there.

Maybe giant mirrors & scales at all check ins could bring about a sea change, anything butdon’t sit them next to me.

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I agree with Agnosto. I find the remark about people who have 'let themselves go' to be extremely offensive and incredibly ignorant. (I myself am 157 cm and of a normal weight).

Clinical obesity can also be defined as an illness and often needs medical treatment. These people become obese regardless of their diet or habits.

Have you people no sympathy? No compassion? These people are not animals they are humans and deserved to be treated with respect and dignity. I'm not sure if I could say the same for some of you.

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Designismylife.

"Have you people no sympathy? No compassion?"

After an 11 hour flight? No

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They should leave in the OEM seats that come with the plane from the manufacturers - everyone can sit in those seats very comfortably - they are larger than the seats that they put in "First Class".

Anyways, I always end up purchasing a second seat if I fly coach, and if I fly First Class, the seats are normally the right size for me. I just have really wide hips that dont scrunch into those tiny seats they put in back.

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You think that's bad, at least the US airlines are polite about the whole thing. If you're a fat westerner in coach flying on a Chinese airline there's a pretty good chance they'll ask you to step on the luggage scale so they can determine a surcharge.

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"Clinical obesity can also be defined as an illness and often needs medical treatment. These people become obese regardless of their diet or habits. Have you people no sympathy? No compassion? These people are not animals they are humans and deserved to be treated with respect and dignity. I'm not sure if I could say the same for some of you."

The weight of the total aircraft including it's passengers is vital to lift and fuel consumption. It is math and physics. Neither of which care just how any particular passenger got to the weight they are or whether they are happy or suffering. I don't think there's any need to proclaim that these people are not animals since no one is suggesting that they travel in the cargo compartment. Now, have you no compassion or sympthy for the majority of passengers who have to suffer being squished or have to pay the same airfare to transport a small net weight as the passenger with double the net weight? In principle, the moment that airlines started covering their additional fuel costs by charging more for luggage over a pre-set limit this issue of obese passengers was bound to arise.

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I find the remark about people who have 'let themselves go' to be extremely offensive and incredibly ignorant. (I myself am 157 cm and of a normal weight).

Clinical obesity can also be defined as an illness and often needs medical treatment. These people become obese regardless of their diet or habits.

3% of obese people have a thyroid problem, according to the CDC. 3%! That leaves a lot of people responsible for the state they find themselves in. My two relatives who weight 450-500 pounds ate themselves there...they eat three times what I do at any meal, and dessert besides.

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If you're a fat westerner in coach flying on a Chinese airline there's a pretty good chance they'll ask you to step on the luggage scale so they can determine a surcharge.

Has this ever happened to you or have you seen this happening? Or is this one of those usual "hate on XXX country with no proof"?

And it seems to me that Air France wrapping someone in packing tape in public would be a little worse than being asked to step on a scale.

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This fat issue is a time bomb ticking as nations get more and more obese and airlines seats remain relatively unchanged. I read that the seats on the new A380 superjumbo are 5cm wider that regular economy class seats. A small increase but better than nothing. I think the onus should be on the obese people to have a little humility about their own predicament and not make a stink about it - if you know you are not going to safely fit in one economy seat then you know you will need an extra seat or a business class seat or not fly at all. To get all indignant about it wont help. The large people should try renting a helicopter for a trip and have the pilot tell them they are are 135kg total: their luggage and bodyweight added. Sorry obese people - welcome to reality.

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I read somewhere this week that, at current rates, all Americans will be overweight by 2050 or so. There'll come a time when airlines just can't discriminate in US because everyone will have a bit of excess baggage.

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I don't know about charging for total weight, but I do agree that if your body "takes up more than one seat", you should pay more. I have to fly from Okinawa to the US a few times a year, and it really bothers me when my arm and shoulder are a pillow for someone too large for a regular seat.

I'm 5'9" and 195, so don't say that I'm too thin (I could stand to loose a few pounds). The point is I paid for a seat, I should at least get all of it.

Addiu

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Has this ever happened to you or have you seen this happening? Or is this one of those usual "hate on XXX country with no proof"?

It's just not random hating on XXX Asian country. There are several cases detailed over on the Flyertalk forums.

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jeez. some of you are putting way too much thought into this. here, let me break it down: the price of a ticke from airport A to airport D costs X dollars. if you are under 130kg or whatever number is set, the price of the ticket remains X. if you are over the body weight, regardless of how you carry it, your ticket is X + however much they decided to charge by weight. how hard is that? for those of you who are offended by that, too bad. no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to be huge.

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