A new bill currently being discussed in the Diet would give the government the authority to revoke the permanent residency status of foreigners who don't make the required payments into the country’s mandatory pension system. What do you think about this?

that will certainly thin out the people with pr status. why not go all the way and do it for those with spouse visas too? same for the jet folks and the, what is it, humanities english teachers?

why discriminate against just the pr people?

Not everyone is required to pay into the pension system.

It's a form of tax evasion, for which people are quite often criminally charged. So why not?

Need to be Enacted a decade ago.

There are a lot of people (including both Japanese and non-Japanese) who don't /can't pay into the Japan Pension scheme because they are below the minimum threshold to qualify to join the scheme. For some that's intentional or voluntary, but for many it's because the employers hire them as non-permanent less than full-time employees.

The low-income individuals are exempt from paying health insurance, which includes pensions. If foreigners leave the country, they can claim back a portion of the payments. Those with spouse visas will obtain permanent residency.

This will only be a concern for those who refuse to pay. As of the end of June 2023, there are around 880,000 foreigners with permanent residence permits.

Any change to the PR is a worry.

"To obtain permanent residency, applicants in principle need to have lived in Japan for at least 10 years with five years of work. It is generally required that they have not been imprisoned or fined and they have fulfilled official obligations such as paying taxes and social security contributions."

I think revoking a PR visa is quite extreme. Many PR are entitled to pensions outside Japan and if they don't pay in Japan they won't get it anyways so there is no burden to the Japanese government.

A new bill currently being discussed in the Diet would give the government the authority to revoke the permanent residency status of foreigners who don't make the required payments into the country’s mandatory pension system. What do you think about this?

I think the reason they are doing this is that they want to decrease the number of people with PR. The question is- will that apply to people with Special permanent residence as well?

Literally millions of Japanese do not pay into kokumin nenkin. About one in four people who should do.

https://www.nenkin.go.jp/info/torikumi/chiikikaigi/miyagi.files/18-5.pdf

Covid was an eyeopener in that many PR for Japan were locked out of the country. I love Japan and my whole life is here, but that really upset me. I can fully understand others with PR giving up on Japan because of it. Many PR have Japanese spouses and the government has no right to split up that Japanese person's family. So even if this pension talk relating to PR is just an idle threat (which wouldn't affect me because I'm on shakai hoken), the experience of Covid is already a red flag about what the word 永住権 mean. The meaning may not be what you think "permanent" and "resident" mean.

In three decades the worst experience was denying entry to PRs during the Covid-19.

There are no fines for not paying the pension but the authorities can seize property and bank accounts.

I have never really thought of PR as "permanent" only as "permanent" as the government wants.

What xenophobia? Here's your daily dose. Tomorrow's is probably already hitting the presses.

Sounds fair.

My wife is American and is double taxed by the States and us here.

Deliberate tax evasion is illegal and u fair to those who pay, so whats the problem?

There would need to be a transparent and multi-step process for this to be fair. I don't have an issue with it if there is repeated evasion and no intentions or actions to correct an outstanding tax compliance issue. On the other hand, there should be a process of really multiple notifications and remedial actions before taking such a powerful step.

thepersoniamnow

Sounds fair.

> My wife is American and is double taxed by the States and us here.

Double tax only applies to people earning more than $100,000.

Deliberate tax evasion is illegal and u fair to those who pay, so whats the problem?

Covid was an eyeopener in that many PR for Japan were locked out of the country. I love Japan and my whole life is here, but that really upset me. I can fully understand others with PR giving up on Japan because of it. Many PR have Japanese spouses and the government has no right to split up that Japanese person's family. So even if this pension talk relating to PR is just an idle threat (which wouldn't affect me because I'm on shakai hoken), the experience of Covid is already a red flag about what the word 永住権 mean. The meaning may not be what you think "permanent" and "resident" mean.

THIS! Well said!

In three decades the worst experience was denying entry to PRs during the Covid-19.

There are no fines for not paying the pension but the authorities can seize property and bank accounts.

I have never really thought of PR as "permanent" only as "permanent" as the government wants.

Agree!

A non issue basically. For a while now you have to provide proof of pension payments to be even considered for Japanese PR. What's the big deal?

The noise against it is obviously coming from those who were lucky and got PR when the pension non payment issue was tolerated. Why the hell should they have snuck in with paying their obligations and continue to do so? Pay up or get your PR canceled, sounds fine to me.

Autocorrect strikes again - I originally wrote 'Why the hell should they have snuck in without paying their obligations and continue to do so'.

Disgraceful.

Many Japanese don't pay so they won't receive the pension when they're old = penalty.

Permanent Residents don't pay so they won't receive the pension PLUS they lose their status = double penalty.

It's unequitable punishment.

PRs are required to follow a list of conditions. Japanese citizens do not.

Looks like the LDP is scraping the bottom of the barrel, desperately trying to get money from anywhere to cover their massive overspending.

Wallace

I am aware of the rules and threshholds man.

We hire accountants here and back in the states too annually and its a pain.

Whats ur point?

thepersoniamnow

Wallace

I am aware of the rules and threshholds man.

> We hire accountants here and back in the states too annually and its a pain.

> Whats ur point?

You stated your American wife is doubled tax but under the tax treaties, double tax only applies when you earn more than $100,000. I think for 2024 the amount is $124,000.

In three decades the worst experience was denying entry to PRs during the Covid-19.

I freely travelled in that time. Just needed the right paperwork.

zibala

In three decades the worst experience was denying entry to PRs during the Covid-19.

> I freely travelled in that time. Just needed the right paperwork.

You didn't travel during the time PRs were prevented from returning from overseas.

April to August 2020.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japan-eases-reentry-ban-as-stranded-foreign-residents-weigh-future

You were not an exception.

wallaceToday  08:22 pm JST

thepersoniamnow 

Wallace

I am aware of the rules and threshholds man.

We hire accountants here and back in the states too annually and its a pain.*

Whats ur point?*

“You stated your American wife is doubled tax but under the tax treaties, double tax only applies when you earn more than $100,000. I think for 2024 the amount is $124,000.”

—-

yep, and only on the amount above that. and you don’t need an accountant. you can do it easily online. i think his point was that you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

Peter and Wallace

Thanks for the insight guys.

I’m gunna stop declaring taxes on my business now and hopefully it was all just us making a mountain outta a molehill.

You didn't travel during the time PRs were prevented from returning from overseas.

Yep, I did. May 2020. It was great. 15 people on a JAL flight to the US,

Coming back, about 40 people on United flight.

Those were the days---to be traveling.

zibala

You didn't travel during the time PRs were prevented from returning from overseas.

> Yep, I did. May 2020. It was great. 15 people on a JAL flight to the US,

> Coming back, about 40 people on United flight.

> Those were the days---to be traveling.

You would not have been able to travel during the time the Japanese government closed the borders to all foreigners including those who were resident in Japan, such as the PR.

People were able to leave Japan but not return until the border was opened.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9482887/#:~:text=In%20early%202020%2C%20when%20the,any%20international%20travel%20of%20foreigners.

Lol, so as soon as I use sarcasm instead of logic I get upvotes?

Interesting.

A few posters here believe non-payment into the Pension system should have consequences for their visas.

Yet the same people a few days ago were stating that convictions for assault in Japan should have no effect on their residency visas. (The case of the Kenyan PR charged with assault).

I would place a conviction for physical assault higher on the infringement scale than tax evasion. But I'm likely in the minority here.

Fighto

I know of people who committed crimes and did not lose their PR and also likewise, those who did.

I think it takes a lot to overturn PR as some have family and new lives here, but it is a warning of intent from the government.

What if you have PR, but don't live in Japan? You don't have to pay into Japan's pension system in that case, right?

I don't understand why pension contributions aren't just deducted from paychecks along with the income tax.

Of course, the poor value of the horrible gov't pension system is very much worthy of debate. But, that's a horse of a different color.