Are you proud of being whatever your nationality is, or don't you think about it one way or another?

No, not proud. Being proud of something suggests you have / had something to do with achieving that result. Who you are born to / where you are born is generally entirely arbitrary, unless your parents deliberately placed themselves there for your birth, in order to give you a better start in life.

I enjoy my heritage though, which is only reflected in my last name, not in my nationality. I am also very pleased to be British.

Having been in Japan for more than 25 years, I don't really "feel" my nationality anymore. At times, I feel like a stateless citizen. I do, however, cringe whenever I see my countrymen in Tokyo acting like loud buffoons and disrespecting the culture or norms here.

Not really, no. I'm not ashamed of it though.

I am proud of my background (mixed) and proud of my current nationality (Japanese). I used to think that Americans were proudest of their nationality, but my opinion quickly changed after living in Japan. The Brits take the cake by a long shot. I met this guy in Japan and his first words were "I'm British and I'm not going to apologize about it." He said this before even telling me his name. WTF?

I'm like Brainiac - I feel like a stateless citizen! I'm half Japanese/half American and can feel out of place here AND in the states.

Sometimes I feel pride in my country (Australia) but I'm not patriotic by any means. I also feel like a stateless citizen. Once you have lived in a few countries, the world becomes your home, not just where you were born.

I hope one day I can feel proud to be part of the human race. I think that's the bigger question we should be asking.

Assuming (1) you were raised in the place of your nationality; (2) you believe the education, values and culture of said nation had some material influence on what type of person you are now; and (3) you believe that these things make you "bring something to the table" in life, so to speak, wherever you may be now, then you ought to be proud of your nationality.

Like Maria, I don't see how you can be "proud" of something you didn't achieve.

I'm happy enough to be English, not overly so. Don't believe in "Britishness", though; the UK's just a group of countries working together for convenience, like the EU.

You're supposed to be proud of your personal achievements, not whatever random nationality that you happened to be born into by pure chance. It would be ridiculous to say that you're proud of inheriting a lot of wealth by pure chance.

So being proud of your nationality is quite frankly, irrational.

You're supposed to be proud of your personal achievements, not whatever random nationality that you happened to be born into by pure chance.

Don't you believe, though, that on some level your nationality may have played some part in your personal achievements? Or do you believe you could have done those great things no matter where you came from? I don't.

I think some folk confuse pride with gratitude. I didn't personally do anything to acquire my nationality, it was there when I was born; so while I'm pleased to be British, English even, and grateful for all the opportunities the country gave me, I don't think it would be appropriate to say I was proud. Same with Tom's inherited wealth; I'd be pleased and grateful, but not proud.

Now, what you do with it once you've got it (nationality or wealth) - that might make a person proud, or not, as the case may be.

Don't you believe, though, that on some level your nationality may have played some part in your personal achievements? Or do you believe you could have done those great things no matter where you came from? I don't.

It's what you DID with what you were born into that matters, not whatever that that you just happened to be born into. You could be born very intelligent for example, but you could still do nothing worthwhile your whole life. And if you did achieve a lot, would you be proud of your brain? Well no, you would be proud of your achievements.

Yes, completely. And I honestly feel sorry for the posters here who feel "stateless". Especially since living in Japan for decades may make you feel Japan is somehow your "nation", but it will never truly make you Japanese.

sigh @ people getting granular over the word "proud".

Take a deep breath and just be PROUD of who you are and where you came from! Geez, you guys must be absolute charmers at dinner parties...

Not any more "proud" of my nationality than e.g. of my hometown or my family. That´s where my roots are, I have special interest in it, and of course I´d root for the national team in football. But I can hardly be "proud" of something I did not create myself, and, like my family and my hometown, my nation has good individuals as well as bad ones.

Take a deep breath and just be PROUD of who you are and where you came from!

Well, that's us told. Proud to be English now. Ever so ; )

sigh @ people getting granular over the word "proud".

Take a deep breath and just be PROUD of who you are and where you came from! Geez, you guys must be absolute charmers at dinner parties..

Well said.

The older I get the less proud I am. But, I'm not especially proud of that either. I want my kids to be able to be proud to be Japanese though. So how's that for weird.

I probably have a stronger identity as an English speaking westerner, if that makes any sense.

To some of the Brits commenting here: if you speak or teach English at work while living in Japan, and you're only proud of the things that you personally achieve, invent your own language and try teaching that instead.

Living abroad I would imagine we all are made to consider where we originated more often than our friends and family back home, perhaps every day. Ive spent more than half of my life living outside my country of citizenship in 7 countries besides Japan with only 15 yrs in the USA (out of 45). Been in Japan the longest and it is definitely my home now but Im happy to be from where I was born and yes, I feel pride at certain things my country has done and of course a full range of feelings regarding other things. Is it illogical or irrational, can one only be proud of things that are purely a direct result of your actions?

I feel lucky to have my nationality (UK/Scottish). It's not something I achieved though. I would hate to be stuck here, that's for sure.

Being proud of something suggests you have / had something to do with achieving that result.

I do, well I try to be good citizen of my nation, my supra-nation and my second country, fight to maintain democracy, justice,etc. I think we do well in general. I'm proud of us. If we failed, I'd feel ashamed. The country is the group of its citizen. It's like when you are in a class at school. If things go well, you're proud of yourself and your buddies.If that's a just a bunch of gangster, not at all.

Japan for decades may make you feel Japan is somehow your "nation", but it will never truly make you Japanese.

That doesn't matter, I'm still proud of being Japanese.

So being proud of your nationality is quite frankly, irrational.

Should be "proud of your Nation". Now, the day you'll get your Japanese nationality, maybe "proud of your nationality" will be the expression, as you'll have done a lot to obtain it.

Maria,

You wrote pretty much what I was going to write!

Interesting.

As you say, pride doesn't come into it because I have no sense of accomplishment.

I didn't make England.

It sort of made itself as far as I'm concerned.

There are TONS of things I admire about the U.K. and our culture. There are TONS of things I admire about Japan too - especially Okinawa. There are also things I cannot admire about those countries. There are also, though some may not believe it, many things I admire about the U.S.A.

I wouldn't say that I was proud of my country. It certainly has a special place in my heart. But I wouldn't get into an argument over it if someone disagreed. And I certainly wouldn't go to war over it.

I'm quite happy to live in Okinawa, bake my own bread, make my own cheese and watch BBC documentaries on DVD occasionally.

And I honestly feel sorry for the posters here who feel "stateless". Especially since living in Japan for decades may make you feel Japan is somehow your "nation", but it will never truly make you Japanese.

@herefornow: I'm a little confused by what you said. If I felt that Japan is somehow 'my nation' (which, incidentally I don't and would never in a million years as I'm reminded almost everyday that I am a 'gaijin' not a 'nihonjin'), then I would no longer feel 'stateless' but 'Japanese'.

I mostly proud to have dual citizenship. Of course I am also proud of both the nations I lived my life at. Both where I was born and lived most my life. But saying this it does not mean I am one of those fanatical patriotic people who would go so far as to say I would die for my country. I feel very proud to be accepted by 2 nations and would never do anything to embarrass them. Saying this I would never consider becoming a Japanese citizen as it would mean losing my other 2 nationalities and gaining absolutely nothing worth bragging about.

I'm happy and proud to have 3 cultures in my life. I was born in Puerto Rico, raised in NY, and married to a Japanese man. I'm proud that I can share my Puerto Rican and American culture with my Japanese family. However, I do have my ''Puerto Rican'' pride, because it's how I was raised at home.

It doesn't matter where you call home, as long as you don't forget where you're roots are.

your* Sorry typo.

I feel lucky to be a dual national and to be born and raised in a "western" country. There is a lot of suffering in the world and we (ie those from western nations) only have to turn on the TV to realise some people weren't so lucky. Pride doesnt come into it, for reasons already repeated on this thread.

Maybe in the next life I wont be so lucky.

Why be proud of something you have no control over? Religion is somewhat similar. How is it that most of the world feels they are the lucky ones to have been born in the best country, and are a part of the only true religion. Highly unlikely that you are correct on either front, much less from any single point.

It depends what, if anything, related to Ireland is happening in the news, or in the environment in which I now live. So when I see drunken Irish in Tokyo living up to the stereotype, or the needless death of a pregnant Indian happens in an Irish hospital, I feel a sense of embarrassment or even shame, that I am in some way connected culturally to it.

On the other hand, when Ireland is in the news for positive reasons, I feel pride for the same reasons.

Neither feeling is all that strong though, and Ireland is rarely in the news for any reason.

I'm proud to be Scottish and British. As a tax payer I have contributed financially to my country, as an NHS employee I have contributed to the well-being of my fellow Scots, so yes, I am proud to be Scots. Just the same as the Japanese people I know are proud to be Japanese, as are my English friends proud to be English.

I don't care if it's irrational, people have always said they are proud of where they come from... human nature.

As a tax payer I have contributed financially to my country, as an NHS employee I have contributed to the well-being of my fellow Scots

So you're proud of being a tax-payer and an NHS employee.

There is no room for pride in society, it prevents rational thinking at times. I am British, why should i be proud of coming from that island? Nationalism, patriotism and pride in nation can be and are all used as forms of control by the elite.

Do British people think the Queen is proud of Britain? No, she is part of the elite who live there lives protecting their power and wealth. The look on her face at the Olympics said it all, yet still some will die in her name, very sad.

There is no room for pride in society, it prevents rational thinking at times. I am British, why should i be proud of coming from that island? Nationalism, patriotism and pride in nation can be and are all used as forms of control by the elite.

I think they serve a purpose. If British people still had a little bit more pride in their country then maybe we wouldn't be in a situation where important decisions about the UK are made in Brussels by unelected bureaucrats.

So many jaded people here... that's what I find quite sad. Maybe if I was politically-minded I would no doubt agree with the depressing comments, but I'm not.

Pride is a double-sided coin: it also comes with shame. Pride and shame are inseparable, they are two expressions of the same process. If you feel that you can not live up to your pride, then you will inevitably feel shame. It's interesting that East Asian cultures focus so much on shame... you could say that there's a lot of pride involved. Or maybe it's some kind of masochism.

@davestrousers

The elite decide whether Britain is in the EU or not. If they want Britain out they would only so when they are sure they would win a referendum.

How would this pride thing make any difference to the UK.? Pride of making laws that the elite made? The people have no voice in these things whether they are proud or not. The 3 main parties are almost all the same now. The city of London wields more power than them all.

I'm half American and German, but I'm an American citizen, I'm very proud of it. But I love Germany grew up there half of my life as well and living now in Japan, I've found a new place to call home. I would never give up my citizenship, but I have a permanent visa, have a family, so this is home now. Like the old saying "home is where the heart is at." I'm always happy to visit home and family and the states, but after 3 weeks, I can't back to Japan fast enough! So in that case I'm proud to be part of this community. Basically, it all depends wher you feel most comfortable. As much as I like Japan, I am a big fan of Islands, been to many of them. If someone offered me dual citizenship for Aruba, Barbados, I'll gladly move over there in a heartbeat. I like the peaceful simple quiet lifestyle, hate the big city. Most people that like where they live at, even if its not their native country of origin. They learn how to adapt and acclimate themselves and often become part of the culture in their new adoptive land.

Nah - got no sense of clubby, 'belonging' anywhere. My PLACE is always sure to be somewhere/anywhere, on this wee planet, I just need the air - and stuff like that, you cant get it elsewhere, as far as I know. I am sometimes astonished at the thought of how there's so very little substance between me and (maybe) an eternity of whatever 'space' is. so - feeling 'proud' of 'here' or anywhere else - would seem bizarre. Makes no sense at all! I might rejoice in being here, or celebrate it - if I was sure that NOT being here was somehow not as good. Will that do? I think a lot of people are constructs of mixed and possibly antagonistic cultures. Born in UK BUT with a strong German family connection, made childhood - just after wartime - a big mess, culturally speaking. Whose side was I on when 'we' were busy bombing, or being bombed? At three/four years old its not easy to work out stuff like that - easier to shut it all out and forget. Now I (whatever I am) am well mixed into Japan along with UK, Germany Wales and France - and none of those cultures are very much like each other, except in basics, like the need to breathe, eat, drink, sleep and pee. Im having problems locating a use for 'pride' in any of that.

sighclops@ took the words out of my mouth.

I am proud (am using this word despite previous comments) to be British/English although of course there are a number of aspects about its culture and society I dislike; and like so many Britons I have the influence of another culture on me (in my case Japanese through my Japanese parents) and am really happy to be a "mixed Briton". I am a little bit glad I did not grow up and live in Japan having read so many criticisms on JT about Japanese women, their attitudes and lifestyle choices.

I'm not even proud of being a human being. So you guess what I think about my nationality.

I'm proud to be Canadian, but not at all in any boastful or nationalistic sense. Remember, pride has a number of very different nuances, and the question is non-specific. So like I said, I'm proud of my nationality and my heritage, but in no way to I hold it above any other, nor do I feel inferior to anyone else based on where I'm from. I am who I am, and while part of that is based on my background, it's not defined by the passport I hold.

I tire of national pride in my home country and in Japan. I hate it more in Japan though because it is over the stupidest of things (and it is said over and over again), but ultimately it is the same stupid narcissism.

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, 'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God Bless the U.S.A. From the lakes of Minnesota to the hills of Tennessee, Across the plains of Texas from sea to shining sea. From Detroit down to Houston and New York to L.A.,

There's pride in every American heart And it's time we stand and say: I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, 'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God Bless the U.S.A.

( written by Lee Greenwood )

sigh @ people getting granular over the word "proud".

Take a deep breath and just be PROUD of who you are and where you came from! Geez, you guys must be absolute charmers at dinner parties...

comment of my day. Look at all these weaklings falling all over themselves with semantics. Just another way for someone not to take a stand on anything.

You can see a nation as a big team and I'm proud of what I have contributed to the common welfare of that team. I'm ashamed of where I couldn't prevent stupidities and set-backs. But I can't be proud or ashamed of the nation or nationality itself. It's an abstract concept without any value in itself. I'm proud of the contributions to all the teams which I happened to belong to, independent of whether I had or have the corresponding nationality.

There is no room for pride in society, it prevents rational thinking at times. I am British, why should i be proud of coming from that island? Nationalism, patriotism and pride in nation can be and are all used as forms of control by the elite.

Betraythetrust - In that case, I would invite you, Thomas Anderson etc. to swap your passport for any one of the dozens and dozens of countries around the world where you won't enjoy human rights, dignified living conditions or even a clean glass of water.

@Serrano

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, 'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God Bless the U.S.A.

Sigh... Well, I guess somebody from your part of the world was going to post something like this at some point.... Surprised it took so long.

lucabrasi - Why the surprise? You know there aren't that many patriotic posters on JT, heh heh. And why the sigh? Something wrong with loving your country? Sheesh.

It's impossible to ignore the feelings totally I think. I understand to an extent where the people are coming from who say they can only be proud of their achievements, but that ignores the prospect of any feelings of togetherness and connectedness to anything else in life if it's not actually you. Imagine if someone asked you what your father did for a living, would you feel no difference, or feel nothing at all, if you could say he was a doctor who had invented a cure for cancer as opposed to saying he stacked supermarket shelves? His achievements have nothing to do with you, so you would have exactly the same emotional feeling saying those two things?

@Serrano

There's a difference between loving your country and humping it in public : )

And I don't believe anyone can take this Greenwood guy seriously. He's like a parody of himself... if that makes sense.

(Nothing personal, by the way. I've got good American friends who come out suddenly with the most cringingly embarrassing patriotic weird talk. It's all down to education).

serrano - as stated, nothing wrong with loving your country. But to quote that sickening, exclusionary (God doesn't have time to bless the rest of the world,I gather) beyond jingoistic song is just plain cheesy.

oikawa - I get your meaning, but yer Da's yer Da - not the same as millions of people who just happen to have been born in the same country.

What if the doctor who found a cure for cancer only let his personal friends in on the cure? If that same doctor, every time someone rubbed him up the wrong way, went out and shot them/bombed their families/demanded the local residents' association join in his vendetta? Spent so much money on fast cars and guns that he couldn't afford to feed and clothe his family?

If the best job yer Da can get is stacking shelves, and he does it to the best of his ability, and does his utmost to see to it that his family lacks for nothing, and gets on with/helps his neighbours, that's a Da to be proud of.

Patriotism and nationalism are just 2 words I do not understand. I am happy to have my roots in a country with high level of democracy, good prosperity, stable and with accountable citizens. But I do not see any reason to be proud. I feel proud of things I do myself, not because of other successes.

But I am very sad when I see so-called patriots wanting to kill the tolerance, progresses and openness of my ancestors.

cleo, I agree with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, of course I wouldn't be proud of that doctor and I would be proud of that dad, but the point is is that you do feel something. And what is the difference between your dad and your fellow countrymen? Is it purely a physical connection that allows us to be proud? Can I not be proud of a friend, or husband or wife, who does something noteworthy?

Sorry, I forgot to mention an important point: I feel never so bad when anthems are played at any sport event. This is a totally antagonist of the expected FairPlay. And to be honest I do not even know my own country anthem and ... I am not teaching it to my kids.

And last but not least: I hate flags raised everywhere all year long. A few ones in special occasions like national day it is OK. But otherwise I see them more an exclusion things than anything else.

Sorry bis for bombarding but I am commenting as I read. For the ones who are worrying about stateless people: I believe this is my best accomplishment having lived abroad for many year in many cultures. Probably one of the few things I am very proud of. It allows me to keep a rational eye on my home country - or anywhere else - and control my emotions.

MariaDec. 11, 2012 - 08:33AM JST No, not proud. Being proud of something suggests you have / had something to do with achieving that result.

Unless you're from a country that's a dictatorship then I think you may have missed some basic lessons in democracy. I'm not responsible for my country's past, that's just history, however from the moment I could vote I shared responsibility for my country's present and future. If I vote responsibly then I have a right to be proud if my candidate gets into office and does the right thing, or if the other candidate gets into office and does the wrong thing then I have the responsibility to do my best to see that he leaves office as soon as possible. Either way voting is a responsibility and a right. Most people just focus on the right bit and forget the responsibility.

My country did some horrific stuff in the past and I just say, "Hey, I couldn't vote then, don't put that on me.", however it has also done some great and some horrible stuff recently. I feel proud about the great stuff, and guilty about the horrible stuff. If I didn't I wouldn't be a responsible citizen, with focus on the word RESPONSIBLE.

MariaDec. 11, 2012 - 08:33AM JST No, not proud. Being proud of something suggests you have / had something to do with achieving that result.

I'd also argue that's fundamentally untrue. Otherwise you could never say you felt proud of something someone else did, but we do feel proud of things people we have a connection with do, irrespective of whether we played a role in that accomplishment or not. Would we not say for example we felt proud of a boyfriend or girlfriend if they got a promotion/a good new job/a place at a good university (where we had played no part whatsoever in helping them)? Feeling pride does not necessarily imply we accomplished something ourselves, and even that is arguable in this case as a country is surely the sum of it's constituent parts, which it's citizens certainly are, and are all inextricably linked.

This is one subject that shows a person's intelligence most obviously. Everyone is born into a country, and if he is unlucky enough, as most people are, also born into a religion. Both these are coinincidences, they have nothing at all to do with you. You neither cohose those, nor did you ever really reflect on those and hen picked them. When you grow up, sooner or later you understand this.... or you do not.

One thing however is startling: It seems that citizens of countries, that have least reason to be proud of their country, when they look at its actual history, usually are the most nationalistic. (forgive for not naming names here...)

Being proud of something suggests you have / had something to do with achieving that result

I thoroughly agree with the above statement. For me taking pride in your nationality is always getting close to nationalism, which I despise. Just because one person can do something, or did something doesn't mean everyone from that country can do the same.

I consider myself a human being first and foremost. Being part of a nation-tribe is something I don't give a lot of time and energy to

I think pride can quickly turn to vanity or narrow-mindedness. Am I proud of my nationality? Am I proud of my hair colour? It amounts to something similar, as I had little or no choice in either. I am satisfied with my nationality (British/English) but there are many aspects of that for which I do not feel pride. Being proud of something with such wide connotations can be very limiting...

vollandDec. 12, 2012 - 06:08AM JST This is one subject that shows a person's intelligence most obviously. Everyone is born into a country, and if he is unlucky enough, as most people are, also born into a religion. Both these are coinincidences, they have nothing at all to do with you. You neither cohose those, nor did you ever really reflect on those and hen picked them. When you grow up, sooner or later you understand this.... or you do not.

... you can change your religion (or just abandon religion entirely), and you can vote to change how your country behaves. This is how a responsible person behaves, they don't just throw their hands up in the air and say, "Oh well, I guess I'm a Catholic, nothing I can do, so where's the nearest choir boy!".

I am proud to be an unofficial ambassador of American Jazz, Art, Cuisine, NYC colloquialisms, and personal style...

I don't really feel proud of my nationality as such for reasons similar to what Maria described in the first post.

I sometimes feel proud of the achievements of my nation, even though I am not a direct part of those achievements when those achievements are the results of a set of values that I share with most people of my nation.

Like others here I sometimes feel like a stateless citizen, all though I like to think of it in terms of being an universal or world citizen instead. And I hope that one day our world will develop to the point where we can all truly be worldists rather than nationalists. Worldism wont be a problem until we discover other worlds with intelligent life.

... you can change your religion (or just abandon religion entirely), and you can vote to change how your country behaves.

Tell that to an Iranian. Or a Saudi....

Of course. I am an American!

I am an American!

Which part? Uruguay, Bolivia, Ecuador?

the person who gave me a minus must be a I love Japan freak or Japanese themselves. Pretty funny :P As the comment I said is true and a fact.

haha welcome back minus giving person :P

I'm proud of my Finnish roots. In less than 100 years since gaining independence we've become one of the strongest economies in Europe and we also have the best education system in the world. Not only that but we're also ranked 2nd in the world in Ice Hockey and were world champions in 2011 after smashing Sweden 6-1.

"Glory not in this that you love your country; glory in this that you love mankind." Baha'u'llah

Pride is a strange concept because all I did to earn these privileges or burdens was being born, but I do like what I am and wouldn't want to change.

Some people have two or three nationalities so the question is a bit dodgy.

I was born in the United States and take pride in my country. It is not perfect but it is where I want to live. Our country is going through an ordeal now and I am so proud of the way we have joined together to support the families of those slain. Together we will get through this and be stronger for it. It is somewhat sad to think that it takes a tragedy to come together as a nation.

I'm proud of my country, we have been a force in the world from inventions to culture. Wherever we walk the red carpet is always laid out. I wouldn't want to be from anywhere else.

NO I am not at all proud, I do not have to be , fact is I have amost NEVER liked this country form the first years of my life, once I started to see how rotten, paranoic and repelling to me was. I always want to renounce my citizenship and have another.