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Do you think a man holding a door open for a woman, holding her chair for her when she sits down, or giving up his seat for her are outmoded gestures of politeness or do they still have their place in society?

17 Comments

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17 Comments
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Most women still seem to appreciate it, so why not do it.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Depends. If you're on a date, then no chivalry's not dead. As for random strangers, yes and no. I'll hold a door open for anyone. It's common etiquette. I'll give up my seat if you're elderly, pregnant or disabled. Otherwise, get serious. A woman isn't a hothouse flower that'll wilt after standing for a few mins.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

If the person is being genuinely kind, then it's not outdated.

But some guys nowadays do this kind of thing because they expect something in return.

What I really don't like though is that these manners are associated with Western men being "gentlemen" but for the vast majority of those men, it's an easy way to publicly pose as being a "gentlemen" without actually being gentlemanly in the more important aspects of life.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Pretty stupid question imo.

How men can help women, and how women can help men is pretty clear in my head,

Be nice in general to people.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Can be confusing though. I mean I generally give up a seat on the subway if an old person or pregnant person needs it. But last Tuesday evening I was coming home from work and I tried to give up my seat to this old grey haired lady but she snapped at me saying " What do you think, I'm old and weak and just have to sit down?" She refused the offer of the seat. I felt somewhat humiliated.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

As a woman I don't expect those things. If it happens, okay, if it doesn't then that's okay too. As a human being though I'd appreciate people not letting go of doors after they go through, its not just polite, it's a safety issue.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Outmoded.

In the sense that the old-fashioned tradition defines how you must treat a human being by a quick snap-shot of her identity, not based on what she seems to be doing, thinking, or feeling in any given moment.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Good manners cost nothing. Courteous polite behavior leaves a warm kind impression and frankly brightens up my day.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Holding a door and giving up a seat are actually much different from holding a chair.

The first two gestures are often made - and in my opinion - and should be made no matter the gender of the recipient as a "chivalrous" gesture and even obligatory if there is evident need.

The chair business normally doesn't involve strangers so a man may hold the chair safely. Whether it is a gesture meant to show respect or merely to impress depends on the people and situation.

Finally, I'd like to see more gestures like these in Japan, but I think they are still considered a mark of eccentricity.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What jcapan said.

Would even go further though, I think holding a door open, chair etc for a woman systematically is over-chivalrous (and silly), date or not. Not saying chivalry, or what most ppl still call chivalry, is dead but perhaps, for some of us, the meaning has changed?

Tend to think that old-fashioned chivalrous gentlemen are also the type who want their partner to stay at home, cook, clean, mind the kids i.e "I open the door for you, bring $ home, pay for your dinner etc & you cook/clean/accept I have affairs, ok?". (tacit agreement, they're not that stupid)

Good thing is many women don't want their man to systematically open the car door for them (in/out, chauffeur style), hold their chair etc and think mutual respect/support for the other's work/life choices, managing household chores 'the right way' etc is more important. Pheeewww!!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

As a man, I conduct myself as a gentleman.  I treat women as ladies no matter what their station.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Any "man" who thinks this common courtesy is outdated is a sorry excuse. I can only imagine the sad state of affairs their love lives must be

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

clamenzaJune 25  07:21 pm JST

Any "man" who thinks this common courtesy is outdated is a sorry excuse. I can only imagine the sad state of affairs their love lives must be

Don't you think it's a bit of a contradiction to respond to a discussion about "common courtesy" with a personal attack for everyone who dares to disagree with you?

Just what do you think the relationship between holding open doors and and a person's love life is, anyway? Do you think there are women out there who are so simplistic that they make the decision to sleep with a guy or otherwise be involved with him just on the basis of whether or not he held the door open for her? Or rather held the door open her her because she was a woman but let it slam in the face of the dude behind her because he wasn't?

Did you miss the several posters who argued fairly reasonably that the issue here is not courtesy, the issue is doing these gestures for someone because she's a woman as opposed to because it's the polite thing to do?
1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes

The relationship is self-evident. Heels who don't give up a seat or hold doors open are very likely not having relationships with a woman at all.

Id wager a years supply of beer on it

These gestures are done because she's a woman AND it's the polite thing to do.

If you don't, re-read point #2

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Duh. #3

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Heels who don't give up a seat or hold doors open are very likely not having relationships with a woman at all.

I haven't heard a guy called a "heel" since I last saw a 1940s movie. Personally, though I am probably not quite as old (or as chivalrous) as you, but I usually hold the door open for dames.

Don't see where holding a door open ever hurt anyone, though it is a little annoying when I stop to hold the door for a stranger, and she walks through without so much as a nod, like I'm a doorman.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Heel. Cad. Forever single.

They are all very appropriate, even today.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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