Have you had enough of "Star Wars," Marvel and other superhero movies?

I remember my professor lecturing us that you can tell the sociological situation of a time period from the general theme of the movies being shown. How you interpret the constant stream of superhero movies differs among people, what do you guys think?

I like this exercise. From the surface I would say that people are seeking escape into a fantasy world where altruistic (maybe an extreme assumption) super beings balance out the world for us because we are generally in a state of despair and feeling like we have no ability to control the direction our world is heading (authoritarian autocracy by way of tacit agreement?) and are suffering from a sort of mass depression. If I dig a little deeper though I would infer that Hollywood is simply out of ideas and/or a slave to accountants and marketing concepts (like radio and the music industry started to be in the 1970s/80s thanks to Clear Channel). Therefore, the marketing machines demand more and more serialized films that are tried and tested (read: safe) and people eat them up because the climate is ripe and, more importantly, that is all we are being fed. I don't think these films are worthless because people gain joy from them (I do not) but I do agree with Scorsese's and Coppola's indictment of Hollywood on those grounds. I don't think that their intention was to attack the filmmakers or lovers of those films. They are elder statespeople of film and they want to know that when they leave this world, they leave film in a safe place, I think. Where are the risk takers?! Where are the films that are challenging us? Where are the films that are challenging forms and the medium itself? Yes, they are out there but they can hardly compete with the bang boom crash of superhero marketing WMDs.

We are though, I think, in a sort of golden age of documentaries and that is where my film watching habits have drifted personally. Yes, I'm fun at parties :)

Yes, I'm no longer eight years-old.

Not at all. It's just another genre, currently at its peak. It comes and goes. In these dark and uncertain times, it's nice to have a glut of escapism.

I'm happy to watch the big blockbusters, as well as old silent films and obscure subtitled stuff.

What bothers me more is trying to cram a story like Moby Dick, Robinson Crusoe, or the Count of Monte Christo into a 2 hour movie. Stories the rely heavily on character development are more suited for a miniseries and not a standalone movie that would inevitably omit many details.

John Huston's Moby Dick is fascinating but doesn't capture the detail and humour of the book, at all. I believe there are other versions that are more faithful, including a miniseries with Patrick Stewart some years back. Not sure I'd be happy with the descriptions of whale slaughter and many chapters devoted to classification of various species being depicted, if ever that was the case..!

I don’t see a problem with making a multiple installment series if the original story requires it . Back to the Future and the original Star Wars were meant to be trilogies from the conception, and comic book adaptions have multiple story lines and spinoffs that make endless sequels possible.

What bothers me more is trying to cram a story like Moby Dick, Robinson Crusoe, or the Count of Monte Christo into a 2 hour movie. Stories the rely heavily on character development are more suited for a miniseries and not a standalone movie that would inevitably omit many details.

I loved The Last Jedi, in particular because it deviated from the saga's formula and offered up something different. It was, I guess, a controversial response to those who saw The Force Awakens as a re-tread of what had gone before. Apart from the Holiday Special, I can't think of much of the saga that I haven't enjoyed...

I hated Last Jedi.

To me the problem with the whole sequel trilogy is that they are making it about 20 years too late and it just isn't working because they are trying to do two incompatible things at once.

On the one hand they are positioning it as a continuation/conclusion to the original trilogy and in this it is a total failure. Each episode is just depressingly showing us how each of the main characters die. Episode 7: "This is how Han Solo dies", Episode 8: "This is how Luke Skywalker dies" and of course Episode 9 will be "This is how Princess Leia dies".

That SUCKS as cinema. If they had made it 20 years earlier, like maybe instead of making the stupid prequels, then the main cast would have still been young enough that they could have made a follow up story about something other than "this is how everyone dies after they've gotten old". Like maybe a middle aged Luke is running his own Jedi academy and a teenage Kylo Ren turns to the dark side and the movies would revolve around the conflicts that emerge as a result or something like that.

On the other hand, the movies are also telling us the story of new characters, and doing a bad job of that too. The new characters aren't bad, but because their stories are being tacked onto this narrative of the demise of each of the original characters the stories just aren't very compelling. It also doesn't help that you have some cringe worthy scenes that make you roll your eyes sometime.

It's the most philosophically and thematically clear and coherent film in the series. Last Jedi is an astonishing, towering achievement.

Yes, as much as I enjoyed TFA, I felt TLJ was a deeper exploration of the myth and Rian Johnson really delivered something darker and nuanced. If I had any grumbles, it would be the casino planet adventure. Nothing to do with Rose and Finn, it just felt like it belonged in another film. Still, it did have Benicio del Toro in it, which was fun. I think the scene might have found a more suitable home in the Solo film. The tone was more akin to that. And despite the Ron Howard direction, I found Solo to be a ripping yarn and great popcorn experience.

If the new episode is half as good as TLJ, it's going to be a mighty and fitting end to the saga that has thrilled me since 1977. And then we get The Mandalorian as a bonus!

As for superheroes - roll on season 2 of The Boys. It's not subtle, but that's Garth Ennis for you. If you want subtlety in comics, go for the likes of Gaiman or grumpy Alan...

It's the most philosophically and thematically clear and coherent film in the series. Last Jedi is an astonishing, towering achievement. Those who don't like it are almost universally whiny fanboy incels.

Not a whiny fanboy incel here, just a guy who watched Last Jedi and didn't like it.

What I am reading here is praise of a movie simply based on its "Philosophy", "themes" and "depth" which, while all fine and good, do not in and of themselves make a movie enjoyable to watch.

With Last Jedi in particular the problem for me was the fact that they crammed way too many storylines into the film, many of which either didn't make sense or were unnecessary (Poe's mutiny, the whole thing on the Casino Planet) or just depressing and anticlimactic (Luke's confrontation with Kylo and his death). This seems to be just motivated by the classic "need to have all the main characters doing something which gives them about equal screen time" conundrum and the, unique to this trilogy, "have to make one of the original cast members die in each movie" mandate.

The only character storyline I found interesting at all was that between Kylo and Rey, which is interesting but buried beneath all this other schlock that is going on in the film.

I'm okay with them. I remember my professor lecturing us that you can tell the sociological situation of a time period from the general theme of the movies being shown. How you interpret the constant stream of superhero movies differs among people, what do you guys think?

Most definitely!

No, I like them.

I've really not been enjoying the Star Wars movies much lately (and by "lately" I mean "for the last 20 years"). The original trilogy remains the only ones that I truly love.

While I'm also a bit tired of super hero movies being so dominant, I've also enjoyed some of the recent Marvel ones. Thor Ragnarok was great, and I've liked the Spider Man movies with Tom Holland a lot.

I loved The Last Jedi, in particular because it deviated from the saga's formula and offered up something different. It was, I guess, a controversial response to those who saw The Force Awakens as a re-tread of what had gone before. Apart from the Holiday Special, I can't think of much of the saga that I haven't enjoyed...

If I had any grumbles, it would be the casino planet adventure. 

I agree that that sequence went on a bit long and was a bit slapstick for my tastes, but it finally highlighted class conflict within the Star Wars universe, as well as setting up DJ's complication that war profiteers are the ultimate victors of the galactic conflict, and makes a much more subtle, impactful critique of the reality that the Rebellion isn't all virtuous than Rogue One managed.

With Last Jedi in particular the problem for me was the fact that they crammed way too many storylines into the film, many of which either didn't make sense or were unnecessary (Poe's mutiny, the whole thing on the Casino Planet)

As I mentioned, the Casino Planet was essential to the theming of the film and its main message, that failure isn't something to wallow in, but something to learn from (Yoda practically stares into the camera to explain that to the audience), and Poe's mutiny works perfectly along that theme, while growing him as a character.

or just depressing and anticlimactic (Luke's confrontation with Kylo and his death).

I can't and won't tell you you were 'wrong' to feel the confrontation was anti-climactic, but it was hardly depressing: Luke realises that he was wrong to try and let the failures of the Jedi bury the wisdom of the Jedi, and rescues the Resistance by outwitting Kylo and letting his babyboy feelings get the better of him. We see the fascist villain thwarted and the hero rewarded by joining the Force. I think it's uplifting.

from Star Wars, i just care about Rogue One. i feel like that ,s the only (Star Wars) movie that wasn,t made for kids or nerds. from the MCU, i care about the first Iron Man (only because it ,s connected to the later films), Winter Soldier because that ,s a fine action movie, Civil War as well, and then Thor Ragnarok because it leads to Infinity War and then finally Endgame. and the two Spider-Man movies with Tom Holland are really enjoyable because of that "fun" factor. except those, MCU is done for me. i mean, after having two movies like Infinity War and Endgame, do people really want more? anyway, except that, personally speaking, i like darker movies, for example Joker became one of my favorite movies. the first Sin City is amazing, Logan was also really good . . . Watchmen (extended), The Dark Knight Trilogy and pretty much that,s it. so i think i,ve had enough because i don,t think they can come up with anything (good) anytime soon, but then again, we never know when there ,s a good movie around the corner, the Joker being a good example . . .

I loved The Last Jedi, in particular because it deviated from the saga's formula and offered up something different. 

It's the most philosophically and thematically clear and coherent film in the series. Last Jedi is an astonishing, towering achievement. Those who don't like it are almost universally whiny fanboy incels.

after having two movies like Infinity War and Endgame, do people really want more?

Apparently you did: you said you liked the second Holland Spider-man movie, which came out and is set after Endgame.

As I mentioned, the Casino Planet was essential to the theming of the film and its main message, that failure isn't something to wallow in, but something to learn from (Yoda practically stares into the camera to explain that to the audience), and Poe's mutiny works perfectly along that theme, while growing him as a character.

But you don’t need a thirty minute (or however long they spent on the casino planet) diversion from the main plot to establish a theme.

This movie just suffered from too many storylines and tangents like that. Compare it to the standalone movies Rogue One and Solo, which I think are the only OK Star Wars movies to come out recently. Those movies both basically follow a single storyline anchored around a main character whose adventures are followed (much like Luke in the original Star Wars). Last Jedi though basically has everyone scattered about doing different things, with some storylines actually undermining the dramatic effect of others (Finn and Rose’s ability to just fly off to the Casino planet certainly undermined the sense of tension on the spaceship being pursued by the Star Destroyers they left behind since it demonstrated it was actually possible to escape from that, for example).

The problem with having so many storylines is that it hinders the audiences’ ability to get emotionally involved in any of them. Kylo and Rey had the most compelling storyline, but the movie keeps yanking you away from them and forcing you to watch characters with far less interesting things to do.

I can't and won't tell you you were 'wrong' to feel the confrontation was anti-climactic, but it was hardly depressing: Luke realises that he was wrong to try and let the failures of the Jedi bury the wisdom of the Jedi, and rescues the Resistance by outwitting Kylo and letting his babyboy feelings get the better of him. We see the fascist villain thwarted and the hero rewarded by joining the Force. I think it's uplifting.

No, it was depressing. I waited like 35 years to see Luke again and all I got was him dying on some isolated planet as part of a plan to save a few rebels that he probably could have found a non suicidal way of rescuing if he had thought it through. Heck, even Mark Hamill himself hated it,

This brings me back to my point that these movies are 20 years too late. These movies are wholly unsatisfying as continuations of Han, Luke and Leia’s stories because they just skipped over the most interesting bits of their stories and fast forwarded to them being old and dying.

They should have either just made completely new movies without them, or maybe re cast the roles with younger actors to make movies about the rise and fall of the new republic.

@Sneezy

when i asked if people really want more i was referring to MCU,s phase 4. imo, after two movies like Infinity War and Endgame ( two amazing movies / satisfying conclusion ) i don,t think people really need (or want) another phase. as for the Spider-Man movie, i said both Spider-Man movies with Tom Holland were enjoyable, that,s it. i really enjoyed the first one so i went to see the second one, but the second one was more like... meh. and after Endgame, there,s only Far From Home, that,s the only movie, so that,s more like an "extra". so anyway, what i meant is that i have zero interest in MCU,s phase 4.

Star Wars I am still hanging on to. I slept through the first Avengers and gave up after that. I did watch Black Panther and the Spiderverse movies though because of the hype.

The Last Jedi was an insult to the Star Wars series.