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Nobody knows for sure how the Spanish Flu pandemic, which killed millions of people around the world between 1918 and 1920, ended but it did end over a relatively short period of time, without a vaccine. Do you think the coronavirus will end in much the same way?

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It killed 50 million people before it stopped, crippled many millions more, because no one was left who could be killed by it, ALONG WITH quarantines, improved hygiene and extensive use of disinfectants and limitation of large gathering.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-commemoration/1918-pandemic-history.htm

Let's hope we don't let 50 million people die again because some people are too stubborn and selfish.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

we don't know what will happen when the flu season hits and someone who has the virus gets the flu. For now, this thing doesn't seem to be subsiding. If the Spanish flu is a benchmark, we can begin to see a 2nd, 3rd, and maybe a 4th wave.

what is certain is that around the world, people who are not taking this seriously ie not wearing masks or practicing social distancing or governments that want to open up the economy too much too soon, or push for commercial flying with high risk countries are making sure that this problem will stay with us for a while.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Nobody knows for sure how the Spanish Flu pandemic, which killed millions of people around the world between 1918 and 1920, ended but it did end over a relatively short period of time, without a vaccine.

Yes we do. It killed off enough people until there was herd immunity.

Do you think the coronavirus will end in much the same way?

In America, maybe. In the rest of the world, probably not.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

It ended when most people either died or gained immunity after being infected.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It seems that the current virus is less lethal, however the only silver lining is that it shows the disastrous state of medical care in the US and that obesity is not a benign condition. I hope that a public option healthcare will become widespread in the US and that obesity will be addressed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

As an expert on all things, I think that Covid-19 will ease in a similar way but without anywhere near as many deaths. The politicization of Covid-19, however, will keep it from dying out in our minds. Let's face it, it's one heck of a hobgoblin opportunity that our politicians can't waste!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Will it burn itself out? I hope so, but at what cost to human lives?

Fascinating (if grim) parallells with the flu of 100 years ago.

In Spain... the disease was dubbed the “Naples Soldier” (the name of a song from a popular operetta); in Italy, it was called the “German disease”; in Germany, the “Russian plague”; in Russia, the “Chinese sickness”; and in Japan, the “American disease.”

And this sounds familiar

The authorities in the United States launched a publicity campaign against coughing, spitting and sneezing. Archival photographs from 1918 show signs to that effect that were posted on streetcars... or a conductor not allowing a person without a face mask to board a train... cities were placed on lockdown; schools and churches were shuttered, along with theaters, swimming pools and other places of leisure. Gas masks were used by some U.S. states to cope with the epidemic: One photo shows baseball players wearing masks to cover their mouth and nose during a game. The spectators did likewise. “No person shall appear in any street, park, place where any business is transacted ... without wearing a mask covering both the nose and the mouth,” the Arizona health department declared.

More here

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-the-spanish-flu-had-its-own-share-of-conspiracy-theories-1.8713448

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Covid is nowhere as deadly as the Spanish Flu, so this thing will simply drag on until we develop herd immunity with much fewer deaths than the Spanish flu. Covid is much milder, plus we have a better understanding of how it works and how to treat it: hydroxychloroquine ; )

BTW, I haven't looked into it much yet, but a number of people seem to be making a pretty good case for the Spanish flu having started from vaccinated US soldiers; i.e., the outbreak was caused by the vaccine. I don't believe it yet, but I do think it might be worth a look...

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Probably not because summer, when many thought it would subside, has seen the highest numbers and rising and the virus has spurs that dig into the lungs.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Raw BeerToday  12:46 pm JST

Covid is much milder, plus we have a better understanding of how it works and how to treat it: hydroxychloroquine ; )

I think it should be hydroxychloroquine plus zinc and vitamin D. It seems hydroxychloroquine doesn't do anything by itself, which could be why some studies into it have failed, and this gives its opponents an out to say it's useless. From what I've read and heard, hydroxychloroquine actually helps the zinc to boost the immune system and keep the COVD-19 virus at bay, So without zinc it's just circulating around doing not much in particular unless you have malaria.

Seems like the opponents of trying it are more interested in protecting the profits of drug companies and attacking Trump than saving lives.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

kyronstavic, well said, I agree 100%!

BTW, I've heard some people taking tonic water with zinc. I have no idea if that works or if the quinine concentrations in the tonic water are sufficient. But I don't want to try it because they just have so much sugar, might do more harm than good. Perhaps if I find a diet version (I'm already taking Zn, for other reasons).

It seems hydroxychloroquine doesn't do anything by itself, which could be why some studies into it have failed, and this gives its opponents an out to say it's useless.

Yeah, I think that in some studies they gave very high doses (toxic doses) to late stage patients. So the deniers will also claim it's dangerous. Apparently its cheap and you don't need much of it... as long as, as you said, you take it with zinc.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Yeah, I think that in some studies they gave very high doses (toxic doses) to late stage patients. So the deniers will also claim it's dangerous. Apparently its cheap and you don't need much of it... as long as, as you said, you take it with zinc

I heard something along the same lines. Good way to discredit a medicine if you want it to fail. It does seem clear that the hydroxychloroquine plus zinc treatment is ineffective for late-stage illness, but looks promising as a protective measure or if the disease is in the early stages.

Here's a study from back in March about it, before it became "controversial."

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0

Apparently it's only risky to patients with certain heart conditions when taken at elevated doses, but I'll have to check on that further.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Back on topic please.

I heard something along the same lines. Good way to discredit a medicine if you want it to fail. It does seem clear that the hydroxychloroquine plus zinc treatment is ineffective for late-stage illness, but looks promising as a protective measure or if the disease is in the early stages.

Exactly. Once the dust settles, I hope someone holds CNN, Youtube et al accountable for the unnecessary deaths they caused by their jihad against one useful drug.... purely because of political fanaticism.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Spanish flu probably mutated itself into an ineffective state - after all, viruses are most effective from an evolutionary perspective if they do not kill the host or cause significant symptoms - in that way they are passed on more easily.

I read with interest that in the US in 1918 you could be fined $100 for not wearing a mask. Obviously Spanish flu was much more deadly and they lacked ventilators so they had to take it very seriously.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I definitely think the Coronavirus will end sooner than later and I don’t think America is any different from any other country with the exception we have more people, but overall if the media focuses more on the recovery and the declining death rates overall instead of shock and horror of death 24/7 (we know why they do it) the country would be better off as far as the “fear pandemic” is concerned.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Medical care is better now than 100 years ago, that's why we haven't seen death totals as high as the 1918 flu.

It's reported that 78% of 'recovered' Covid-19 patients are left with heart problems. We read daily of cavalier cowboys who discount the seriousness of Covid-19 and regret killing someone in their family or who post their own regrets before dying themselves.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Even if it might sound weird, I guess that the reason why SARS-CoV-2 might last longer is because the general world situation is way better than in 1918.

We have to consider that in 1918 there was a world war ending, so the general situation of people in many parts of the world was very bad. A lot of people got injured during the war, didn't have enough food or even a decent place to live, many soldiers were packed together in small places after years of war... starving and with many other health problems to start with.

So the flu had a very easy life, jumping from a weak body to another one. And most countries had no more enough money or infrastructures to deal with that, after the long war.

If you add the fact that hospitals, medicines, doctors at that time were no way efficient as they are now, there is no surprise that so many people died in a relatively short period.

So why it disappeared? probably because the most deadly viruses tend to kill the carrier too fast to be able to spread to others. If you add it to all the problems people already had at that time, probably only a less or non deadly version of the virus could survive.

The weakest oned died, together with the virus. Many other got herd immunity. And some small precautions like using masks and avoid crowds, did the rest.

Nobody will know it for sure, because at that time they didn't have the knowledge and infrastructures to study the virus like we have now, so we don't know much about it, but I guess that maybe SARS-CoV-2 in 1918 would be same as the Spanish Flu or even worse....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's reported that 78% of 'recovered' Covid-19 patients are left with heart problems.

I believe it's from inflammation. What seems to be killing people is not so much the virus itself but the body's reaction to it.

I guess it's like peanuts, most of us can eat peanuts with no problems, but some can die if they get just a trace amount.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Since I am not Donald Trump, I do not have any whiz-bang solutions for the current pandemic. I do ofter a consideration from Wikipedia on the so-called Spanish Flu. It does, I believe, have some correlatives and contrasts with the Cover-19. Here it is:

*Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm, which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults.[6] In contrast, a 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains.[7][8] Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene, all exacerbated by the recent war, promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed.[9][10]*

In short, causes external to the flu itself likely contributed to the deadliness of the pandemic. I believe there are correlative with the current pandemic. The U.S. may not have been as hard hit if it had socialized medicine. Certain unhygienic behavior, like not wearing masks or taking them of when hanging out, is without a doubt a contributing factor.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

before readers lose site, it is important to understand differences of Spanish Flu vs SARS2 (aka COVID19. The differences being one occurred naturally allowing the human body to develop its own immunity as normally done. The latter SARS2 aka Covid19 is genetically enhanced by yes a human. Very different and not a wise comparison unless one is blowing smokescreens. While a coronavirus strain is naturally found in specific bats, the bats do not venture out and look for humans to complete a transfer, its a lot more scientific than that to occur anyway. So with this said it is difficult for the human body to fight this virus on its own and yes requires help from the laboratories to help a human immune system fight back. This is what takes time and why the scientific leaders were extremely upset at the Wuhan lab leading researcher and her team. Simply why pursue such a dangerous quest with no known cure?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The differences being one occurred naturally allowing the human body to develop its own immunity as normally done

The human body is far from perfect at developing natural immunity. Under this system, and in the absence of vaccination and modern medical treatments, many people die in infancy and early childhood from diseases, and many others die in adulthood.

Along with the countless millions who have succumbed to infectious disease throughout history, we've also seen the failure of natural immunity with newly emergent diseases: HIV, Ebola, MERS, SARS, Covid-19. They kill. "Natural" and "nature" are not very friendly to human life, especially on the level of me and you - as opposed to entire populations.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

All virus epidemics including SARS and MERS disappear eventually, so of course this one will too. I see a lot of political interests riding on the endless demands to lock everybody in, destroy the economy, and introduce Big Brother supervision measures.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

rgcivilian^1

This is what takes time and why the scientific leaders were extremely upset at the Wuhan lab leading researcher and her team. Simply why pursue such a dangerous quest with no known cure?

There many possible motiviations. One would be having a lever to force mass vaccinations on entire populations, another could be developing an antidote and having a monopoly on it... you could go on. Or it could simply be hubris. Fact is, the Wuhan Institute of Virology was doing this sort of research, the now silend "bat lady" published articles on it, and the WHO has excluded the lab from its "fact finding" mission. They will instead stomp around in the now flooded fish market.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I see a lot of political interests riding on the endless demands to lock everybody in, destroy the economy, and introduce Big Brother supervision measures.

Do you know which US cities fared best in the Spanish Flu a century ago? The ones that enforced social distancing, lockdowns and mask wearing.

We also see certain political interests still trying to pretend that 150,000 Americans aren't dead because their deaths dont make good 'optics' in an election year.

Trump owns the politicization of the virus, the anti-american masks, the fake science, the incompetence and the economic collapse. It's all his, and history will forever remember him for his utter failure.

All virus epidemics including SARS and MERS disappear eventually, so of course this one will too.

Typical. It's politically inconvenient, you're bored of it and you want it to go away, but don't want to do anything to make it go away.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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