There are many organisations suggesting alternatives.
What works well in one country doesn’t necessarily work in another. Muslim countries have crimes as well, but criminals know the consequences if they’re caught so if you know you’ll be met with harsh consequences, that does help to slow down the crime rate. You can be sympathetic to criminals, I’m not, absolutely not.
Prisons are too expensive.
So is keeping convicted murderers alive as well. Hey, bring back the death penalty and you can alleviate the over-crowding problem, now that’s a thought.
There are many organisations suggesting alternatives.
What works well in one country doesn’t necessarily work in another. Muslim countries have crimes as well, but criminals know the consequences if they’re caught so if you know you’ll be met with harsh consequences, that does help to slow down the crime rate. You can be sympathetic to criminals, I’m not, absolutely not.
The question was just "general".
Prisons are too expensive.
> So is keeping convicted murderers alive as well. Hey, bring back the death penalty and you can alleviate the over-crowding problem, now that’s a thought.
You would execute people. 40% of people already in prisons should not be there.
You need to do some reading on alternatives to prisons then get back to me.
Some prisons will be throwbacks to the current system of incarceration without rehabilitation. Others will focus more on rehabilitation so that the criminal can be reabsorbed into what constitutes society without fear of recidivism. i.e. pay taxes and not harm neighbors.
Perhaps in the far distant future criminals will be surgically, chemically, or psychologically rehabilitated, whatever that might mean.
"The U.S. prison population increased 500 percent in the past 40 years. Crime rates haven't increased proportionately in that same time. Instead, the dramatic increase in prison populations can be directly tied to law and policy changes that are directly tied to the oversized role of race and racism in America."
Perhaps in the far distant future criminals will be surgically, chemically, or psychologically rehabilitated, whatever that might mean
I think this will happen. I remember listening to a lecture on neuroscience where the lecturer argued that what we call ‘evil’ is actually treatable mental illness. This is one argument against the death penalty These people are not evil - they are sick and we don’t know how to treat them yet. Interesting idea.
I think it will be an improvement on drilling holes into the skulls of epileptics to let ‘evil spirits’ out.
Your level of debate is to compare the numbers of prisons and hamburger joints.
No, you just want to give everyone a pass even criminals, except when it’s conservatives questioning their government then you want them locked up and the key thrown away.
So in your police state you would rather shoot prisoners?
I support our police and I support them upholding the law which is what they have faithfully done until this administration took power.
America needs to change. It has the highest incarceration rate of all the G7/EU countries. More than 60% for none violent crimes. 40% for drug related offences.
From the G7/EU countries also the highest levels of gun homicide and mass shootings.
European countries with reformed prison systems have lower levels of crimes.
Prisons in Northern Europe are actually supportive, and they see lower rates of violence and recidivism.
The most profound benefit: Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Only 20% of Norway's formerly incarcerated population commit another crime within two years of release. Even after five years, the recidivism rate is only 25%.
The US/Japan are the only two G7/EU countries still using capital punishment.
Prisons do not resolve the problems of crime. We lock people up costing trillions of dollars.
Probably overrun considering the high recidivism rates in some countries. Prisons should strive for rehabilitation instead of solely focusing on punishment.
Bass4funk and Wallace nicely demonstrate the 2 sides of views of the US prison system - both of them with glaring blind spots. Bass4funk wants more prisons and more police/state powers, despite his other politics leaning toward individual rights and conservatism. Anyone who cares about individual rights should be doubly concerned about police thuggishness, the malfunctioning justice system, prisons for profits and overbearing laws that result in the world's largest per capita prison population.
Meanwhile, in the other corner, I agree with Wallace that the state of US justice is a disgrace and there are way, way too many US citizens in prison. Yet, I gather he promotes many of the politics and politicians that have been involved in politically charged prosecutions (or lack of) and the dismantling of long-held social and moral constructs that normally prevent crime in society.
So many people in prison is prima facie evidence of a failed judicial and legal system, not to mention a police state. So many actual violent crimes being committed is prima facie evidence of a failed moral system and society.
So far as future prisons, we will probably see people controlled by central bank digital currencies and social credits, which will effectively remove the rights of selected people, reserving the steel and concrete prisoners only for the most violent.
Meanwhile, in the other corner, I agree with Wallace that the state of US justice is a disgrace and there are way, way too many US citizens in prison. Yet, I gather he promotes many of the politics and politicians that have been involved in politically charged prosecutions (or lack of) and the dismantling of long-held social and moral constructs that normally prevent crime in society.
I don't promote any American politicians or their policies. Prisons are for the effects of crime and do nothing to resolve the causes of crimes. More than 40% of American convicts are in prison for drug-related offenses. Many are just for personal use. Some say there it is easier to buy drugs in prison than outside it.
More than 60% of convicts are in prison for non-violent offenses.
Do all these people really need to be in prison?
The cost is about $500 billion. Another $1 trillion is lost from gun homicides.
Many black people receive a prison term when a white person with the same offense and criminal history does not.
In some European countries, some prisons allow inmates to go outside to work and return in the evenings. Others allow inmates to go home for the weekends. They treat inmates like people.
America is not the only country where minorities are given prison terms when whites are not.
I'm sure that's true. Racism obviously exists in many places. Admittedly, I think all of the studies I've looked at are American. They seem to produce the vast majority of research in this area.
"What do you think prisons will be like in the future?"
I agree with Jimizo that advances in neuroscience will change our understanding of criminality. It might eventually be pathologised and treated as a medical disorder rather than a moral failing. Prisons could start looking more like hospitals. But whether a medicalised prison system would be more humane or dystopian is anyone's guess. Political criminals in the Soviet Union were often declared insane and sent to asylums rather than being locked up in prison.
I don't promote any American politicians or their policies.
@wallace That's a good start! I agree with most of what you say, but not your conclusions:
In some European countries, some prisons allow inmates to go outside to work and return in the evenings. Others allow inmates to go home for the weekends. They treat inmates like people.
This system works where you have a cohesive society where people are in general agreement regarding morality and right/wrong behavior. It will not work where there is an underclass that feels alienated or where you have large immigrant populations that reject the local culture. Western Europe is a far more dangerous place today than it was 20 years ago.
34 Comments
Login to comment
Aly Rustom
virtual
John-San
I know in Japan in all prison they be wearing masks.
bass4funk
Millions of small 3-D generated cubicles that are stacked on top of each other.
GreenPeas
15-minute cities?
Moonraker
They will be inside your head.
wallace
There won't be any.
Sven Asai
They’ll be secure, safe and comfortable and the punishment will be if you ever be released again in the outside hell.
Anonymous
Right on! Prisons are the instrument of political, social, economic, and gender oppression.
Jimizo
Advances in neuroscience will reduce the number people going to prisons - whatever they look like.
bass4funk
Yes, let all criminals run free. Imagine that one.
wallace
bass4funk
The situation will be very different. Try looking on the bright side of life, like Monty Python. Crime and punishment can change.
No need for the 2.5 million American prisoners. Prisons do not work and do not prevent crime. There are many organisations suggesting alternatives.
Prisons are too expensive.
bass4funk
Build more. I’ll gladly pay for it.
So we should just shoot them??
What works well in one country doesn’t necessarily work in another. Muslim countries have crimes as well, but criminals know the consequences if they’re caught so if you know you’ll be met with harsh consequences, that does help to slow down the crime rate. You can be sympathetic to criminals, I’m not, absolutely not.
So is keeping convicted murderers alive as well. Hey, bring back the death penalty and you can alleviate the over-crowding problem, now that’s a thought.
wallace
bass4funk
Really? There are already too many.
I don't see why you would want to shoot prisons.
There are many organisations suggesting alternatives.
The question was just "general".
You would execute people. 40% of people already in prisons should not be there.
You need to do some reading on alternatives to prisons then get back to me.
Your way is a failure.
wallace
The annual true cost of American prisons is more than $500 billion per year.
https://nicic.gov/economic-burden-incarceration-us-2016
borscht
Some prisons will be throwbacks to the current system of incarceration without rehabilitation. Others will focus more on rehabilitation so that the criminal can be reabsorbed into what constitutes society without fear of recidivism. i.e. pay taxes and not harm neighbors.
Perhaps in the far distant future criminals will be surgically, chemically, or psychologically rehabilitated, whatever that might mean.
wallace
What causes high incarceration rates in the US?
"The U.S. prison population increased 500 percent in the past 40 years. Crime rates haven't increased proportionately in that same time. Instead, the dramatic increase in prison populations can be directly tied to law and policy changes that are directly tied to the oversized role of race and racism in America."
Jimizo
I think this will happen. I remember listening to a lecture on neuroscience where the lecturer argued that what we call ‘evil’ is actually treatable mental illness. This is one argument against the death penalty These people are not evil - they are sick and we don’t know how to treat them yet. Interesting idea.
I think it will be an improvement on drilling holes into the skulls of epileptics to let ‘evil spirits’ out.
bass4funk
You can say the same about Hamburger joints, no one is stopping them.
I wouldn’t, prisoners on the other hand….
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/03/09/why-reducing-violence-essential-prison-reform-work-column/4626310001/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/03/09/why-reducing-violence-essential-prison-reform-work-column/4626310001/
Yes
If they are innocent then let the Justice system play out.
No, I don’t, I need to support my local city government officials and my Senator and send them letters to uphold and keep the system intact.
Your way is lunacy and appeasement.
wallace
bass4funk
Your level of debate is to compare the numbers of prisons and hamburger joints.
So in your police state you would rather shoot prisoners?
The USA Today, is a news outlet, not an organisation studying prison reforms.
Barbaric
If they are innocent then let the Justice system play out.
you need to read up and research
what you have not studied you can’t dismiss.
rcch
Two words: Minority Report.
( the inmates are immobilized not through physical restraints, but through the mental ones imposed on them by a human-computer brain device. )
bass4funk
No, you just want to give everyone a pass even criminals, except when it’s conservatives questioning their government then you want them locked up and the key thrown away.
I support our police and I support them upholding the law which is what they have faithfully done until this administration took power.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/592920-democrats-look-to-shake-off-defund-the-police-as-crime-rises/
https://theconversation.com/why-prison-building-will-continue-booming-in-rural-america-71920
What about what they do to innocent people? Humane?
I do and did.
You need to follow your own advice then.
Moderator
No bickering please.
wallace
America needs to change. It has the highest incarceration rate of all the G7/EU countries. More than 60% for none violent crimes. 40% for drug related offences.
From the G7/EU countries also the highest levels of gun homicide and mass shootings.
European countries with reformed prison systems have lower levels of crimes.
Prisons in Northern Europe are actually supportive, and they see lower rates of violence and recidivism.
The most profound benefit: Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Only 20% of Norway's formerly incarcerated population commit another crime within two years of release. Even after five years, the recidivism rate is only 25%.
The US/Japan are the only two G7/EU countries still using capital punishment.
Prisons do not resolve the problems of crime. We lock people up costing trillions of dollars.
wallace
bass4funk
what would your answer to the question be?
purple_depressed_bacon
Probably overrun considering the high recidivism rates in some countries. Prisons should strive for rehabilitation instead of solely focusing on punishment.
Mr Kipling
Question...What do you think prisons will be like in the future?
Answer.... "If they follow the pattern of the UK and Europe, they will have large numbers of immigrants."
The UK has an immigrant prison population of 18% more than THREE times more than that outside of prison.
commanteer
Bass4funk and Wallace nicely demonstrate the 2 sides of views of the US prison system - both of them with glaring blind spots. Bass4funk wants more prisons and more police/state powers, despite his other politics leaning toward individual rights and conservatism. Anyone who cares about individual rights should be doubly concerned about police thuggishness, the malfunctioning justice system, prisons for profits and overbearing laws that result in the world's largest per capita prison population.
Meanwhile, in the other corner, I agree with Wallace that the state of US justice is a disgrace and there are way, way too many US citizens in prison. Yet, I gather he promotes many of the politics and politicians that have been involved in politically charged prosecutions (or lack of) and the dismantling of long-held social and moral constructs that normally prevent crime in society.
So many people in prison is prima facie evidence of a failed judicial and legal system, not to mention a police state. So many actual violent crimes being committed is prima facie evidence of a failed moral system and society.
So far as future prisons, we will probably see people controlled by central bank digital currencies and social credits, which will effectively remove the rights of selected people, reserving the steel and concrete prisoners only for the most violent.
wallace
commanteer
I don't promote any American politicians or their policies. Prisons are for the effects of crime and do nothing to resolve the causes of crimes. More than 40% of American convicts are in prison for drug-related offenses. Many are just for personal use. Some say there it is easier to buy drugs in prison than outside it.
More than 60% of convicts are in prison for non-violent offenses.
Do all these people really need to be in prison?
The cost is about $500 billion. Another $1 trillion is lost from gun homicides.
Many black people receive a prison term when a white person with the same offense and criminal history does not.
In some European countries, some prisons allow inmates to go outside to work and return in the evenings. Others allow inmates to go home for the weekends. They treat inmates like people.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people
Back to my main point. Resolve the reasons many people do crimes, like stealing and the effects can also be resolved.
In the future, crime and punishment will be different.
RKL
wallaceToday 03:10 pm JST
Many black people receive a prison term when a white person with the same offense and criminal history does not.
This is frequently the case in the UK, not the USA.
bass4funk
I would agree.
GBR48
You will do time from home. Like lockdown, but with the government locking your door and supplying you with food.
M3M3M3
@Wallace
I'm sure that's true. Racism obviously exists in many places. Admittedly, I think all of the studies I've looked at are American. They seem to produce the vast majority of research in this area.
I agree with Jimizo that advances in neuroscience will change our understanding of criminality. It might eventually be pathologised and treated as a medical disorder rather than a moral failing. Prisons could start looking more like hospitals. But whether a medicalised prison system would be more humane or dystopian is anyone's guess. Political criminals in the Soviet Union were often declared insane and sent to asylums rather than being locked up in prison.
commanteer
@wallace That's a good start! I agree with most of what you say, but not your conclusions:
This system works where you have a cohesive society where people are in general agreement regarding morality and right/wrong behavior. It will not work where there is an underclass that feels alienated or where you have large immigrant populations that reject the local culture. Western Europe is a far more dangerous place today than it was 20 years ago.