Voices
in
Japan

have your say

What is the difference, as you understand it, of dying "from Covid” and dying "with Covid?"

27 Comments

©2022 GPlusMedia Inc.

27 Comments
Login to comment

hmm, an interesting question. From what I can understand, dying from Covid means that you succumbed to the virus itself, while dying with Covid means that you kicked the bucket from other causes while being infected with the virus. that's how I understand it anyway.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

"from Covid”

Covid caused your death OR exacerbated a preexisting condition that lead to your death, which would not have caused you to expire otherwise.

"with Covid"

you died from something else that had NOTHING to do with Covid- and Covid didn't exacerbate any condition or affect it in any way. You just happened to have Covid when you died and that's it

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Subtile, yet important distinctions.

Initially the WHO distributed guidelines that said that “COVID-19 should be recorded on the medical certificate of cause of death for ALL decedents where the disease, or is assumed to have caused, or contributed to death, i.e. COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death.”

Straightforward? Not so fast.

Results were often confusing; data reflecting that confusion started to show that 94% of deaths mentioned more than one condition, not necessarily Covid. See: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf. CDC started walking practioners through filling out the certificate's lines. See: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/podcasts/2021/20210709/20210709.htm .

The WHO and the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs (UN DESA) saw the confusion and started studying causes of death of Covid in a wider contect on mortality estimation and life tables.

They concluded, broadly, that the assessment of COVID-19 mortality should include "deaths directly attributable to COVID-19" AND deaths "due to the indirect impacts of the pandemic on mortality from other causes of death," to reflect two categories showing the “excess deaths” attributable to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Why?

They want the data for "policy responses to curb the pandemic."

How?

They are working on it.

Last check it was in the hands of the Technical Advisory Group (TAG) on COVID-19 Mortality Assessment. https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/world-health-data-platform/technical-advisory-groups/adg-remarks_web_covid-tag-19-feb-2021_final.pdf?sfvrsn=b8d31078_11 .

Stay tuned.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I'd say same as dying from cancer or dying from a heart attack while having some sort of cancer in the body.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"With covid" just seems to be from a positive test result and often without symptoms, such as the UK's system of recording deaths within 28 days of a test.

"Of covid" would mean they had symptoms specific to the virus that indicated its presence and was confirmed by other analyses.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

As I understand it, dying "from Covid” is when the virus is the cause of death, while dying "with Covid" is when someone dies from something else and they happen to get a PCR positive test. In practice however, it all depends on the honesty of the people making the determination.

I would also add that even in those who die "from Covid", the problems generally arise long after the virus has stopped replicating, with the body reacting improperly (cytokine storm, clotting...).

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As I understand it, dying "from Covid” is when the virus is the cause of death, while dying "with Covid" is when someone dies from something else and they happen to get a PCR positive test.

So you publicly state your incorrect understanding.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It is as important as dying "from malnutrition" and dying "with malnutrition", people want to make an artificial distinction to misrepresent and rest importance to the disease, but as long as it is a contributing factor for the death it should be included in the considerations about its burden in public health.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

does it makes any difference?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Dying from COVID as the direct consequence of the infection without other obvious reasons, dying with COVID would mean the infection was a contributing factor but not the only one.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

There is no difference between the two. If there was then no one dies from old age.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

We haven't really made this distinction over the previous 2 plus years because it suited the authorities to overstate the impact of Covid. Now they can no longer afford to keep silly restrictions in place, we are suddenly being informed of the difference between the 2. This whole episode has been a farce and shown our lords and masters up for the incompetents they really are.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

There isn’t any, of course not. You are just dead then, and your wealth, possessions as well as your bodies’ biological and brain cells’ activities shrink to zero. And then it’s over completely for you.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

How about all those whose cause of death is the treatment. They'll certainly be counted as dying "from Covid”, though that is not the cause.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

How about all those whose cause of death is the treatment. They'll certainly be counted as dying "from Covid”, though that is not the cause.

Fortunately since the fake treatments (HCQ or ivermectin) that were being promoted by people trying to deceive patients have already demonstrated to be completely worthless against COVID these patients are now just a minuscule exception, something common with many other health problems.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

A nurse here in Japan told me that 66%, i.e. two out of three people will get cancer during their lifetime.

Of those two, one will die with cancer, the other will die of cancer.

That seemed pretty clear to me at the time.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

dying from COVID is what was pushed when it was necessary to have a lot of "COVID deaths" to push an agenda/narrative.

dying with COVID is what is now the case once a narrative is no longer required and someone might have to pay some damages or claims to those who originally died from COVID but who are now needed to have died with COVID.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

“Dying with Covid” is what the minority, fake online scientists, anti everything as related to Covid claim is a fabricated excuse by healthcare professionals to falsely claim that Covid is a hoax , nothing to worry about . A grand govt conspiracy to control people’s lives by govts around the world.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Nice to see they are asking the question! Based on the inflated figures of deaths from or with Covid I’d say they still don’t know the answer!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

What's the difference? Something like 94%

https://www.futurity.org/cdc-covid-19-comorbidities-2436032-2/

That means the official death count is likely alarmingly low compared to the ridiculous mitigation measures the world witnessed the past two years.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

That means the official death count is likely alarmingly low compared to the ridiculous mitigation measures the world witnessed the past two years.

If you don't count any malnutrition death as long as they have any other condition (most commonly infections) you would also have "alarmingly low" death counts, that would do absolutely nothing to solve the problem because the argument is worthless, if a person can live decades with diabetes but dies in a month with diabetes and COVID that is the importance of the infection.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If only the topic at hand had anything to do with malnutrition. But it doesn't. It's specifically about the very important distinction between death from covid versus death with covid. That distinction was used to justify locking healthy people in their homes or at quarantine centers and challenging people's ability to provide for themselves and their families. 94% of related deaths were with covid not from covid. Very similar to every other disease that affects those with challenged immune systems. How is covid different in that sense?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If you don't count any malnutrition death as long as they have any other condition (most commonly infections) you would also have "alarmingly low" death counts, that would do absolutely nothing to solve the problem because the argument is worthless, if a person can live decades with diabetes but dies in a month with diabetes and COVID that is the importance of the infection.

It's amusing to see that when some people are flagellated with facts, they simply serve up a word salad dressed in a profusion of cow manure instead of graciously admitting defeat.

The difference between with and of, as people like Raw Beer, Wobot, Robert N and Blacklabel, is clear.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The UK recorded as a Covid death, anyone who died (of anything) and had tested positive for Covid in the previous month. If you had asymptomatic Covid and got hit by a truck on your way to work, you went down as a Covid death. That's why the UK stats were so high.

This was lazy and the very opposite of clinical. It hugely boosted the mortality rate and supported 'Project Fear', which was used to scare people into behaving differently in the early days of the pandemic. It also shredded trust in the UK government for many people.

The reality is that you can die of Covid, or you can be seriously ill, catch Covid, become worse and die (in which case Covid is a contributory factor),.

To put it another way, the difference would be the difference between the official UK government stats and the real, much lower numbers, which nobody may have yet bothered to work out. Quite how other governments logged their deaths, it is up to journalists to document.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

In America everyone who died with COVID died from COVID, and large numbers of people who weren’t even tested were also counted as victims. In January, Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC was asked directly how many people had died from COVID and how many hd died with it, she said “We are working hard right now to come up with those figures.” Four months later and there is still no information about when these figures will be released. I imagine they will wait until after next November.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The CDC published data on this distinction already. 94% with, 6% from. The CDC director just says stuff on TV. Most of that is pandemic theater.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The UK recorded as a Covid death, anyone who died (of anything) and had tested positive for Covid in the previous month. If you had asymptomatic Covid and got hit by a truck on your way to work, you went down as a Covid death. That's why the UK stats were so high.

That is incorrect, deaths that include COVID even if uninvolved are only counted for the immediate counting that is reported continously, because it is obviously the easiest and fastest way to count even if not completely correct.

Official numbers that are used to calculate the impact only include COVID when it is actually a contributing factor according to the doctor who writes the death certificate.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jan/24/youtube-videos/no-death-totals-covid-19-england-have-not-been-ove/

The CDC published data on this distinction already. 94% with, 6% from. The CDC director just says stuff on TV. Most of that is pandemic theater.

As explained, if COVID is a contributing factor then there is no problem in considering it an important health problem, how many deaths do you think happens solely because of malnutrition? would a 6% make it less of a problem?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites