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What is the most effective way to deal with the groping problem on trains?

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For starters, make the penalty harder and the victims should be bolder and shout out when being groped. These bastards know most Japanese women are going to keep quiet and wait for it to stop. Can you imagine what a western girl would do in this happened on subway in NYC or London?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Castration...

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I actually disagree that penalties should be harsher since it could have the opposite effect.

It might be counterintuitive but one reason that many women might be reluctant to speak up is because accusing someone of anything even remotely related to groping has become incredibly serious these days. The accused person might be rounded up by a mob of other passengers, presumed guilty, will probably be arrested and might lose their job, so the result is that most people will think twice before saying anything about suspected low level groping, especially on a crowded train where you can't be entirely sure whether it's deliberate or who it is. The gropers obviously use this to their advantage but I wonder if women might be more likely to speak up and say something if the consequences were not so serious.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Castration...

Or cut off their hands like in Saudi Arabia.

Or just make half of all trains women only 247

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Longer and more trains. The crowded conditions probably lead to many false claims of groping.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Or cut off their hands like in Saudi Arabia.

If with their heads!

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Readers, sensible suggestions please.

Half the cars on every train should be for women only. This would protect both the women from gropers and reduce the chances of men being falsely accused.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

The crowded conditions probably lead to many false claims of groping.

That's also very true.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

In my opinion, cameras would be good. It would also help the innocent to not be accused falsely.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

How about first, firmly and directly telling the guy to stop it?

Laughing at him works too.

I was on a train in Tokyo years ago. The seats were all taken and there was a line of people standing in front of them. There was a girl reading a book and a guy pressed up hard behind her. It looked weird, so I kept my eye on him. His hips started moving back and forth and I realised what he was doing.

I burst out laughing and asked him if he was in heat.

He sheepishly went to the door and got off at the next station.

People who grope girls in crowded places are not likely to be big hulking brutes, are they?

They are more likely to be cowards.

Otherwise they would have a girlfriend.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Short term: Cameras and much tougher laws. It's the only way. Long term: Well, men's attitudes towards women are a serious issue, so that needs to be addressed...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I'm fine with women only carriages but hey…let's make them more centralized. Having them right at the end of the platform is embarrassing when I have to run to catch the train, then do the "walk of shame" (looking like a groper) until I reach a shared carriage.

Guys…hold on to the rail with both hands.

…and as a matter of interest. Do men ever get groped by women? If so….where can I join the queue?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I think attention is needed at both ends.

Strict laws and encouraging people to speak up, and try to encourage others to not simply stand by.

However at the same time I think respect and the idea for equality for women needs to start earlier, and media in japan needs to promote empowered and strong women not the kawaii brain dead high pitch voice anime character come to life "role models".

And school isn't just about passing tests, It's also an important socialisation agent...

To be fair I take great care to make sure my hands are always visible when I'm on a busy train, I kind of wish I didn't have to think like this, and not that I'm so worried about a malicious false claim but a misunderstanding that could ruin my life is not something I want to be involved in.

For a long time I have thought the trains and the amount of passengers needs to be better regulated.. I have seen people packed in so hard people have cried and left the train limping.

Ultimately the responsibility falls to each individual to keep to themselves, and not interfere with anyone else in a way they don't like.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I'm wary of the call for stricter laws. This behavior is the result of social issues that need to be addressed. It's easy to call for castration or whatever, but that's not likely to mitigate the problem - it's just an emotional response. The results of an arrest for this sort of crime are pretty severe as it is. Life destroying, in fact. If that doesn't dissuade people, then I don't think doubling down is going to help.

People should be reminded that they are part of a community, and that women deserve equal respect. Men, on the other hand, should take action when they see a groper in action. Simple suggestions, but effective I think.

Cameras may not help all that much on very crowded trains, as they will miss almost everything that happens below shoulder level.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cameras were suggested and even tested in a few trains years ago but the concept was dumped when the only thing that showed up regularly were upskirt photos. Wondered what happened to those.....

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Stricter laws are not the answer. This situation does not exist in other countries where laws are much more relaxed.

Even with the current laws, normal, law-abiding men are walking on eggshells here. One disgruntled woman, one mis-understood umbrella fumble and we lose our jobs, our future prospects, and for foreigners our visas. And yet those punishments would not be too much of a threat to an average unskilled worker/unemployed or freeters.

There is no recourse - if you are accused, you are guilty - i remember reading an article by a lawyer that actually said running may be one of your best options!!! So as a result of the current laws/punishments we have to catch trains as if we are being held up in a bank robbery, both hands in the air.

The problem is with how women are taught to deal with it (or how they arent taught). If groping happened in Australia, Europe, America or anywhere else, the perpetrator would get a swift slap across the face. Maybe a knee to the groin, or at the very least they would scream rather quickly to raise attention to what is happening. Teach the women to be more assertive, to be more protective and the problem will go away by itself.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Honestly? Encourage/train/otherwise empower women to kick the s#!t out of them. If idiot men feared for their lives they would be less likely to do it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cameras, women only cars, draconian punishment... these are all band aids to the problem.

The problem is the mindset of some Japanese men. The whole sempai/kohai system means that bullying and hazing are embedded into Japanese society so deeply it's engrained in the culture. Until Japanese learn to respect others for who they are and not what they are, these kind of problems will continue.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Cameras will not work for the most part because groping happens on crazy crowded trains when everyone is standing, and there is no way the camera could spot the groping.

Though cameras could potentially exonerate false accusations - I always keep both hands up high when on a busy train like that. A camera would exonerate me of a false accusation since my hands would be clearly visible when the groping supposedly happened.

Cameras, women only cars, draconian punishment... these are all band aids to the problem.

When the primary problem is so difficult to fix, band-aids have their place.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Honestly? Encourage/train/otherwise empower women to kick the s#!t out of them.

In a society dominanted by men? Agree with you kaynide, just rare that women here would lift a finger against let alone kicking the s#!t out of them.

What is the most effective way to deal with the groping problem on trains?

Teach kids at an early age to keep your hands to yourself. & that "kanchou" booty-poking is very wrong.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

a punch in the face.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Strangerland

When the primary problem is so difficult to fix, band-aids have their place.

Can't argue with that. Who would have thought an example of when the band-aid solution is very likely the only solution. The division between the sexes in Japan is still a little bit "Benny Hill" (sorry…many on here won't get that comparison)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Bar anyone caught groping from the use of all forms of public transport for a specified period of time, to increase with subsequent offences, eventually resulting in disbarment. Publish their names and photographs in stations and on trains.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Psychological studies shows that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and human behavior reveals the level of self-confidence and maturity in a person. So men who grope women are not behaving like a secure, mature or capable human being. In other words these men are emotionally and sexually immature therefore approach women in immature ways and are not capable of equal, healthy interactions with women. Instead they maintain control and unable to enjoy themselves in intimate situations. That's why healthy sexual expression is important if a person wants to be emotionally and physically strong. In the end physical affection is essential for proper human development for both male and female. So these type of people truly need the help of a professional counselor or therapist.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@anotherexpat

Publish their names and photographs in stations and on trains.

Dangerous and very sloppy road dude. Considering the J-cops reputation for finding evidence where there is none and their reliance on confession to obtain convictions. You only need to look at the recent spate of mistrials reported on here to see how "reliable" they can be.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Define "problem"? There and then or more generally speaking. There and then my suggestions would be as follows:

If you are the victim, don't just take it. Scream, cry, shout, whatever. Embarrassment can be an effective tool in this anally-retentive society. If you are an onlooker, don't just stand there. You have a moral obligation to help. It doesn't matter if you are a weedy little chap or a 7-foot monster. Anybody who attacks the defenseless needs to be confronted.

Speaking of the big picture, the cops and the prosecutors need to pick up their game. This means both burying the culprits and rigorously investigating. Wrongful convictions are just as bad as letting somebody skate.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How about having "female only" coach or carriages? I know it's been done before, especially during rush hours.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

How about having "female only" coach or carriages?

They've had them for years.

There should also be male-only cars.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't think theres a simple solution to this issue that can bring about instantaneous effects. It seems to be a statistical truism that wherever you have a constrained crowd you will have a few pervs groping.

IMO harsher laws won't be an effective solution, similar to how capital punishment can't prevent all henious crimes. As they say, perverts gon perv - when their hormones are jumping reason is no where to be found.

Maybe making a list of REPEAT offenders public on the internet or soemthing is something that can be done. (Repeat offenders only so as to not unjustly tarnish the character of those who had been unjustly accused) But I also doubt this will make a really big difference neitehr.

Women only trains 24/7 seems to be effective as a solution, but I can't help but hate on this solution as there has been multiple occasions where I'm crammed into a train while the women only box next door still has numerous seats open. I feel that with this solution normal men (and even some women, whom I respect very much for sharing in our discomfort when they don't have to) are being punished as collateral damage because of a few perverts.

I guess my suggestion would be to instil in the new generation a mindset where victims voicing themselves is nothing to be ashamed of (never really understood this concept personally but it seems to be a real thing here), and perhaps over time things will get better.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There's a mentality that has to be fixed among the men. Which, apparently, cannot be. I think at present the authorities are doing everything within their power as far as practical and legal measures go. Until men stop viewing women as objects or until they learn to let go of misogyny and victim-blaming-- some of the latter can be found in the preceding comments-- about all you can realistically do is have more women-only cars. Keep the pervs and creeps physically at bay by denying them access.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Have a groping only carriage.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cars that crowded should not be permitted, as safety violations.

Or have special queues for nonpacked cars, with some for separate genders. Only permit riders up to the limit for those cars. If people can't stand to miss a train or two, let them join the anything-goes sardine-tin cars.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Have a groping only carriage.

Serve alcohol as well. Most gropers like a full feel after they feel full.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Use female cops as honey traps more frequently, making gropers less "confident" that they can get away with it

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Now you're talking!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"What is the most effective way to deal with the groping problem on trains?"

VIGILANTE

The dictionary definition of vigilante is: "a ​person who ​tries in an ​unofficial way to ​prevent ​crime, or to ​catch and ​punish someone who has ​committed a ​crime, ​especially because they do not ​think that ​official ​organizations, such as the ​police, are ​controlling ​crime ​effectively"

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vigilante

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The young lady fires a gun into the air.

The kind where a flag pops out saying: "BANG"...

Except that the flag says, "Chikan Alert!"

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@nandakandamanda - "The young lady fires a gun into the air... flag says, "Chikan Alert!"

And then the VIGILANTE comes over and kicks the living daylights out of the guy!!! :-D

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This is not a question for foreigners as they should not dictate what happens inside another country that is not their heritage or home land, regardless of how long they have been or worked in Japan, it does not change the fact they are foreigners and not Japanese.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Just put out! When it becomes too easy, it takes the thrill away from the hunt, lol

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Put a mouse trap in your knickers, ladies.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Step 1: Run enough trains at rush hour that people aren't packed so tightly as to make groping easy or ambiguous.

Step 2:Teach boys not to molest.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

katsu78 - "have the rest of the world start counting... Japan's violent crime statistics... in the lead-up to the Olympics"

We're already on it... ;-)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

A slap in the face would do it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If I were a lady, I would beat the life out of the groper and keep going, even if he asks me to stop. They don't deserve mercy.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What is the most effective way to deal with the groping problem on trains?

Teach them early to keep their hands to themselves. Chijo (women chikan) can wear that shoe too.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

To be honest, speaking as someone who's never been to Japan, I don't think there's a definitive solution. Where I live, we have some "Nut to Butt" Mass Transit crowding too, but we don't often have the issues that Japan seems to have. Part of the problem to me is that there aren't more trains and buses arriving and departing within a certain span of hours. Less of that and you end up with a lot of people crowding up a bus or/and a train and then you have to opportunity to misbehave. Less crowding and there's some space and thus less opportunity to grope.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@turbostat - "According to other foreigners posting about their experiences..."

But that was then, and this is now!! :-)

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

how about establish groping cars? if you have the fetish - ride there? strictly punishing ( hand cut ) at any other cars

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Start early by teaching males more respect for women? Stop sexualising women and girls in supposedly non-pornographic forms of entertainment? (Geez, even the cartoon that my local TV station plays at 7.30 in the morning features female high school students wearing belts where their skirts should be, cooing over whatever 'kakoii' male character) Stop 'persevering' and actually do something about it, if you see it or fall victim to it?

Cameras, undercover-stings and female-only carriages are all well and good, but they really do define the expression 'closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.'

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Have cleverly orchestrated undercover operations on both major and seemingly minor train lines. Set up cameras so there is proof beyond the shadow of doubt. Publicize the names of the perpetrators who've been prosecuted. Send them to rehab to rid themselves of their problem. Do silhouetted follow-up interviews about all they've lost in exchange for removing their names from sex crime databases (if that even exists in Japan). And do this up and down the country making sure that news outlets are on board with it and frequently put these stories on television. There are enough shows about eating food in Japan. A little TV time dedicated to stamping out train perverts seems like a more socially responsible thing to do. If these perverts live in constant fear of getting caught, it should reduce the problem significantly.

Also, making it illegal to produce train groping videos, manga, or anime would be a sensible thing to do. I'm not in favor of a lot of censorship, but it's hard to argue that such things don't give these creeps at least some encouragement. It certainly makes it seem like this is expected or acceptable behavior to the depraved.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@kansaichris - "It certainly makes it seem like this is expected or acceptable behavior"

When I get on a carriage I always take a photo of the sign that says チカンが犯罪です (chikan ga hanzai desu / molesting is a crime)

And then I stand there... ready... to beat the living daylights out of anyone who thinks it is "acceptable behavior"

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

And then I stand there... ready... to beat the living daylights out of anyone who thinks it is "acceptable behavior"

Because we all know that beating the daylights out of someone is acceptable behavior.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Of course, the most sensible thing is to increase the penalties. However, these penalties need to also include things like up-skirt photography and secret cameras. And, as much as I don't like to suggest it, security cameras have to be implemented in all carriages. I know Big Brother is already watching, but it's obvious that too many creeps are dodging it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When I get on a carriage I always take a photo of the sign that says チカンが犯罪です (chikan ga hanzai desu / molesting is a crime)

And then I stand there... ready... to beat the living daylights out of anyone who thinks it is "acceptable behavior"

Wow, did you come all the way from abroad to educate Japanese people? How noble of you

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Men's attitudes in Japan have got to change. BUT until then a little violence is good. Fight back and don't be a wimp and take it. When some guy was rubbing up against me on a train, I soon realized it wasn't his hand. I grabbed a hold of "IT" dug my long fingernails into "IT" and ground my "Spiked" heels into his foot. I did not let go. He had tears running down his face as he silently pulled himself away from me and got off the train. I had skin and blood under my nails. I bet he thought long and hard about doing this to another woman. By the way, A young Japanese lady yelled BONZAI! and smiled. The rest looked everywhere but at me.. Heh heh!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Anne Marie Buck-Inoue - "a little violence is good... He had tears running down his face... I had skin and blood under my nails"

Now that is what I AM talking about. Get in there girl!!! :-D

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

How about, NOT packing the trains so tight that a groper can get away with it unobserved? If the risk of being observed was increased, it seems the "bravery" of the perpetrator would decrease accordingly.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Anne Marie Buck-InoueNOV. 06, 2015 - 08:51PM JST

When some guy was rubbing up against me on a train, I soon realized it wasn't his hand. I grabbed a hold of "IT" dug my long fingernails into "IT" and ground my "Spiked" heels into his foot. I did not let go. He had tears running down his face as he silently pulled himself away from me and got off the train. I had skin and blood under my nails. I bet he thought long and hard about doing this to another woman. By the way, A young Japanese lady yelled BONZAI! and smiled. The rest looked everywhere but at me.. Heh heh!

Finely played.

Men's attitudes in Japan have got to change. BUT until then a little violence is good. Fight back and don't be a wimp and take it.

However, are you not looking down on other people by calling them wimps? Further, IMO this is a misdiagnosis that is common and is hindering the solution of such problems.

You see, no matter how brave or unbrave you are, people try to aim for the least bad option. The main difference between you and those you deride here is not the level of bravery. It's your values. The entire experience, even if it goes public, is sufficiently less embarassing to you that your "least bad" option is to fight off this annoyance.

Girls in Japan don't speak up not because they are too wimpy enough to "do the right thing". Rather they don't speak up because to them it is the least bad option, the "right thing". That's one reason why all those "Be Brave" posters have very limited effect.

So I think the solution is not to tell people to be braver. It is to give girls a sense that this is not so embarassing. If we get it down to the level of "being punched", more of them would fight.

And the best thing is, at that point, there would be many less chikan. Not because the girls are more dangerous, but more because they are less attractive. It is well known that you can often get a bully to stop his taunts just by ignoring them. If you can convince the bully that you just aren't that bothered (rather than pretending to not be bothered), he'll lose interest.

Same process here, and helps to explain why groping rates are higher in Japan while rape rates are lower. No woman in the world can blow off a rape, but the fact that Japanese girls mind being groped more as a collective makes them more attractive targets.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki - "the fact that Japanese girls mind being groped more as a collective makes them more attractive targets"

And finally, we get the Japanese man's reaction... aka. "you know you want it, you little tease"

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

First thing all dirty movies websites should be closed by which they got more promoted

second this is all girls should be learned martial arts so they can defend there selfs anywhere

third thing if it is so usual all girls should carry tazers or paper spray to knock down the victim

forth thing woman should not be waiting for him to stop she should seek for help from 911 or other nearby people

fifth thing government should take severe action against these kinds of acts and police should locate victims by videos or picture they upload to dirty websites and should be arrested and imprisoned for 2 years

and basically all the things is happening because of these dirty sites for which they make videos of innocent girls and destroys their life

0 ( +0 / -0 )

and the other things are the games japanese games they contain so much nudity they should be banned by government wtf are these games made by people

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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