Bertie, seeing how this is Japan, how many households do you know have an oven big enough to fit dough, steaming water vessels and cloth necessary to back french bread? I would say that makes it mighty difficult.
how many households do you know have an oven big enough to fit dough, steaming water vessels and cloth necessary to back french bread? I would say that makes it mighty difficult.
Oven size and steam are not issues. Make two short loves instead of one and toss in water every now and then. The problem is that most ovens don't get hot enough. I make bakery-quality boules, but it's not possible to match a top bakery baguette in a standard home oven.
ah, and I forgot Dominique Saibron, but their prices are a little on the steep side!
90292 - Probably NOT convenient for you, but there is a bakery at Komaba-Todaimae that does great Ciabatta, fresh out of the oven, plenty of oil - nice big squares .
You guys supporting Paul... Paul is OK, but Maison Kayser has them beaten. If you're in Kagurazaka for the bread, go off the main road and head over to the Kayser. It's some of the best-tasting bread I've ever had.
Why people think French bread is so wonderful? Too hard, I think. I don't like a French food.
Don't judge French food too harshly. There is very little real French food in Japan, so it's highly likely that you have only come across "Japanese-style" French food. Real French food in France can be wonderful.
The sauces are very important in French cooking and French bread (the baguette) is perfectly designed for it. Inside it's light, like a sponge, to soak up the sauces and the outside is crisp and "hard" so that your fingers don't get covered in sauce.
For "warewaregaijin," Japanese shokupan is too wet and soft.
That's why this topic is about where to buy good French bread.
French bread is a little more than baguette. Andersen, based in Hiroshima in a beautifully reconstructed building that was partially destroyed by the A-bomb, has a great variety of French breads. Pain au Levain, Pain de Campagne, and a lot more. They have a lot of artisan bread to offer. But there are also more and more shops springing up in Hiroshima offering sublime baguettes, like Baeckerei Ein http://www.backerei-ein.jp/
Forget about baguettes. I can't even find any decent brown bread. Most of the bread here is marshmallow designed to give a sugar-boost. Hello, fiber anyone?
So what's wrong with DONQ? Are you just being snobs because it's a chain or is it because you really think their bread isn't good? Personally, I'd eat DONQ bread any day over some of the bread I've had in France in the past...
Of the places in my own area (Ueno/Okachimachi) I've always been partial to Andersen--lots of variety, baked on site, great baguettes and peasant loaves.
Stephen, Andersen is indeed excellent; I wish they still sold the big round bread with cheese chunks in it for ¥398 like they used to. Now that I live near a Kayser, I never go to Andersen anymore.
warewarenihonjin: There's a good chance the 'French bread' (baguettes) you have chosen in the past were not all that good. Freshly baked baguettes are absolutely delicious, and French cuisine, while not amongst my favourites, is also quite good in general.
That said, I'm kind of with Pukey on this one; I have very, very rarely seen anything but white bread and weird snack bread (ie. filled with butter or chocolate, etc.). I would LOVE it if supermarkets took a few of the 5 slice white bread packages and replaced them with some rye, some whole-wheat, and some pumpernickel, for example.
I would LOVE it if supermarkets took a few of the 5 slice white bread packages and replaced them with some rye, some whole-wheat, and some pumpernickel, for example.
There is a great artisan in my street. There are thousands of great artisans that craft small batches of bread made over days, with fine ingredients, their sourdough, etc...
The baguette is like the onigiri, you have good or bad ones (of both), but it's plain daily products. Eating hot baguette just out of the oven is like eating raw cake dough. Kids love it and normally later, they start finding that a bit gross and heavy on the stomach. It's not healthy, you ingest some gas that didn't get the time to fall down.
The high quality white bread tastes better from hours after baking, till the 3rd day. A "pain de campagne" (the daily bread in my family) is eaten from second to 7th day. "Pain de mie" (shokupan) should be also be good 2 or 3 days.
So if you wonder what quality you get, buy bread, wait 2 days...and you will see if you have quality or crap. If it is crap, get yourself a 5000 yen "home-bakery" machine, and you'll get a hot "pain cube" without having to go shopping in pajama. Note that in Japan, you have to sleep very late. In France, bread batches arrive on the shelves at 4 or 5 a.m. and in Japan, it's more 4 or 5 p.m. It's improving lately.
Andersen is an institution and they've maintained high standards. Everything started there. All the great chef bakers were trained in Hiroshima. My idol is Nishikawa (bakery "Comme Chinois" is Kobe).
Paul
"Paul" is a fast-food chain, it's the French "Subway". They have stylish deco for their shops and they will shine in the transfat pond as long as "Vie de France" and kombinis grace us with their improbable baked inventions.
So what's wrong with DONQ?
Nothing. Most supermarket have a guy that bakes the same baguettes as DONQ. They are decent to eat on the same day.
steaming water vessels and cloth necessary
That's to make the mochi no ?
There is very little real French food in Japan
I'm kind of with Pukey on this one; I have very, very rarely seen anything but white bread
Don't forget sourdough.
Anderson - Will agree with you there
Paul - come off it, where are all these "transfats" as you claim?
DONQ- Supermarket baguettes exactly - too soft and no texture - ie no crunch, no chew.
Steaming water and cloth - that is not for mochi, lots of french breads use this method.
Read the labels someday. BTW their corporate name in Japan is Pasco. I am not on a crusade against food industry, but you can't be a giant chain that produces bread by thousands of tons and pose as an artsy artisan for a long time. There is a lot of competition.
Steaming water and cloth - that is not for mochi, lots of french breads use this method.
I don't doubt that everything has existed. But anyway, if that's the only recipe you like, I still don't see the problem to get a table cloth and a steaming basket in a Japanese kitchen.
Levain - Tomigaya : at the top for years! For real bread "campagne, complet, baguette":
La Terre - Ikejiri & Shibuya Foodshow: Very dedicated japanese artisan. "Bio baguette, melange"
Gontran Chennier - Shibuya: New on the Tokyo scene with a creative approach. "curry baguette, good prices
Maison Kayzer - chain already mentioned - reable source of daily bread
Viron & Saibron are over priced
Kobe-ya, Donq, (even Paul) etc... They are just selling industrial products, as for french, bread have to be baked on the premises (by a certified baker)
My one suit case will be filled with all French and German bread when returning to the USA. I plan to freeze these for future use.
they are all the best of best and delicious..Ah...................................
SmithinJapan etc: To get pumpernickel, I've had to import it (pumpernickel meal) from USA and then use my Costco breadmaker to bake the bread. My friends love the bread - and that sweet pumpernickel taste - great. I had to
get some dark molasses and caraway seeds, but that's pretty easy in Japan.
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some14some
Basement of any Department Store (?)
smartacus
I like Maison Kayser at Tokyo Midtown and Breadworks in Omotesando. Department stores are good, too. I often drop by Johann in Mitsukoshi in Ginza.
Tokiyo
Paul in Kagurazaka
BertieWooster
Bake your own.
It isn't that difficult.
Tokiyo
Bertie, seeing how this is Japan, how many households do you know have an oven big enough to fit dough, steaming water vessels and cloth necessary to back french bread? I would say that makes it mighty difficult.
SimondB
The bakery at the entrance to Yokohama station is very good and not just for French bread but many varieties.
Probie
Yeah, but the question isn't asking that, is it?
Paul, or Andersen because they have shops near where I live.
I also like Aux Bacchanales. Their Bierschinken sandwich is the best in Tokyo.
Bigot is good too.
kimuzukashiiiii
Is french bread the really hard one? I buy my bread from Yamazaki :D Its not french, but its good!
Nessie
Oven size and steam are not issues. Make two short loves instead of one and toss in water every now and then. The problem is that most ovens don't get hot enough. I make bakery-quality boules, but it's not possible to match a top bakery baguette in a standard home oven.
theResident
any of the Paul chain,Viron and a great little place in Yoyogi Uehara called 'pour vous' @Bertie; Lucky you to have the time.
BertieWooster
Tokiyo-san,
We have this Toshiba oven:
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/nakaden/item/10008138/
The temperature goes up to 350C and it has a steam function.
Doesn't take up much space and provided you have the right ingredients and know what to do, it gets the job done. It makes beautiful bread.
If you shop around, you should be able to pick one up for about 50,000 yen.
Moderator: This isn't what the question asks you.
Spanki
Ansen in Nishi Ogikubo. A small family run bakery and their french bread is lovely, their apple pies are the nuts too!
FizzBit
Why can't I get a fresh baked Italian loaf, is my question.
90292
It would be great to find some nice, freshly baked ciabatta as well!
whiskeysour
Easy answer any store that sells fresh brreeeeeaaaadddddddd
theResident
ah, and I forgot Dominique Saibron, but their prices are a little on the steep side! 90292 - Probably NOT convenient for you, but there is a bakery at Komaba-Todaimae that does great Ciabatta, fresh out of the oven, plenty of oil - nice big squares .
ThonTaddeo
You guys supporting Paul... Paul is OK, but Maison Kayser has them beaten. If you're in Kagurazaka for the bread, go off the main road and head over to the Kayser. It's some of the best-tasting bread I've ever had.
warewarenihonjin
Why people think French bread is so wonderful? Too hard, I think. I don't like a French food.
Tokiyo
warearenihonjin
because dipping shokupan in oil and vinegar would = inedible soggy mess. Dipping french bread in oil and vinegar however... <3
seesaw1
Vie de France. I think they have the best. Not only the price is reasonable.
theResident
come on seesaw1....Vie de France not even at the races.
BertieWooster
warewarenihonjin,
Don't judge French food too harshly. There is very little real French food in Japan, so it's highly likely that you have only come across "Japanese-style" French food. Real French food in France can be wonderful.
The sauces are very important in French cooking and French bread (the baguette) is perfectly designed for it. Inside it's light, like a sponge, to soak up the sauces and the outside is crisp and "hard" so that your fingers don't get covered in sauce.
For "warewaregaijin," Japanese shokupan is too wet and soft.
That's why this topic is about where to buy good French bread.
Get Real
Dean and Deluca has a great bakery range, but steep.
http://www.deandeluca.co.jp/ourproducts/bakery/
@Wareware: far too bataa kusai to not know what side your baguette's Nutella'd on.
USNinJapan2
DONQ
dcog9065
Does anyone know of any good French bread places around Roppongi / Akasaka?
Martine Müller
Paul in Azamino
buchailldana
in nagoya its got to be Blanc pain absolutment delicieux...
Serrano
dcog - Paul at Roppongi Itchome Station ( Namboku Line ).
pizzatime
PAul. His bread is great. I like his sammiches, kinda overpriced but welcome to Japan. =^_^=
presto345
French bread is a little more than baguette. Andersen, based in Hiroshima in a beautifully reconstructed building that was partially destroyed by the A-bomb, has a great variety of French breads. Pain au Levain, Pain de Campagne, and a lot more. They have a lot of artisan bread to offer. But there are also more and more shops springing up in Hiroshima offering sublime baguettes, like Baeckerei Ein http://www.backerei-ein.jp/
Pukey2
Forget about baguettes. I can't even find any decent brown bread. Most of the bread here is marshmallow designed to give a sugar-boost. Hello, fiber anyone?
Yamazaki produces the vilest of them all.
BertieWooster
Pukey2,
I think it's probably Mother's Pride relabelled.
But I agree with you. And I totally agree about bread made with wholewheat flour.
You can get wholewheat flour here, though . . .
Serrano
French bread? Heck, how about high-quality Wonder bread? tee hee
USNinJapan2
So what's wrong with DONQ? Are you just being snobs because it's a chain or is it because you really think their bread isn't good? Personally, I'd eat DONQ bread any day over some of the bread I've had in France in the past...
Eppee
Maison Kayser in Midtown, great.
Tokiyo
USNinJapan2 - I would eat bread from DONQ, but I wouldn't call it french bread...The question is for "high quality french bread" after all.
dcog9065
@Eppee Ah awesome thanks very much, actually I've noticed that shop a number of times but never been in so I'll definitely check it out.
Stephen Knight
Of the places in my own area (Ueno/Okachimachi) I've always been partial to Andersen--lots of variety, baked on site, great baguettes and peasant loaves.
Nothing decent in the neighborhood supermarket...
ThonTaddeo
Stephen, Andersen is indeed excellent; I wish they still sold the big round bread with cheese chunks in it for ¥398 like they used to. Now that I live near a Kayser, I never go to Andersen anymore.
nath
Robuchon is good. Paul and Bigot too. Fauchon.
smithinjapan
warewarenihonjin: There's a good chance the 'French bread' (baguettes) you have chosen in the past were not all that good. Freshly baked baguettes are absolutely delicious, and French cuisine, while not amongst my favourites, is also quite good in general.
That said, I'm kind of with Pukey on this one; I have very, very rarely seen anything but white bread and weird snack bread (ie. filled with butter or chocolate, etc.). I would LOVE it if supermarkets took a few of the 5 slice white bread packages and replaced them with some rye, some whole-wheat, and some pumpernickel, for example.
USNinJapan2
smithinjapan
Don't forget sourdough.
Cos
There is a great artisan in my street. There are thousands of great artisans that craft small batches of bread made over days, with fine ingredients, their sourdough, etc... The baguette is like the onigiri, you have good or bad ones (of both), but it's plain daily products. Eating hot baguette just out of the oven is like eating raw cake dough. Kids love it and normally later, they start finding that a bit gross and heavy on the stomach. It's not healthy, you ingest some gas that didn't get the time to fall down. The high quality white bread tastes better from hours after baking, till the 3rd day. A "pain de campagne" (the daily bread in my family) is eaten from second to 7th day. "Pain de mie" (shokupan) should be also be good 2 or 3 days. So if you wonder what quality you get, buy bread, wait 2 days...and you will see if you have quality or crap. If it is crap, get yourself a 5000 yen "home-bakery" machine, and you'll get a hot "pain cube" without having to go shopping in pajama. Note that in Japan, you have to sleep very late. In France, bread batches arrive on the shelves at 4 or 5 a.m. and in Japan, it's more 4 or 5 p.m. It's improving lately.
Cos
Andersen is an institution and they've maintained high standards. Everything started there. All the great chef bakers were trained in Hiroshima. My idol is Nishikawa (bakery "Comme Chinois" is Kobe).
"Paul" is a fast-food chain, it's the French "Subway". They have stylish deco for their shops and they will shine in the transfat pond as long as "Vie de France" and kombinis grace us with their improbable baked inventions.
Nothing. Most supermarket have a guy that bakes the same baguettes as DONQ. They are decent to eat on the same day.
That's to make the mochi no ?
Form a club the frustrated shoppers in Japan.
You're constipated ? Try "deru-deru cha".
Tokiyo
Cos
Anderson - Will agree with you there Paul - come off it, where are all these "transfats" as you claim? DONQ- Supermarket baguettes exactly - too soft and no texture - ie no crunch, no chew. Steaming water and cloth - that is not for mochi, lots of french breads use this method.
Cos
Read the labels someday. BTW their corporate name in Japan is Pasco. I am not on a crusade against food industry, but you can't be a giant chain that produces bread by thousands of tons and pose as an artsy artisan for a long time. There is a lot of competition.
I don't doubt that everything has existed. But anyway, if that's the only recipe you like, I still don't see the problem to get a table cloth and a steaming basket in a Japanese kitchen.
FightingViking
@Brainiac
They definitely have the best "pains au chocolat !
Dumas Francois
Levain - Tomigaya : at the top for years! For real bread "campagne, complet, baguette": La Terre - Ikejiri & Shibuya Foodshow: Very dedicated japanese artisan. "Bio baguette, melange" Gontran Chennier - Shibuya: New on the Tokyo scene with a creative approach. "curry baguette, good prices Maison Kayzer - chain already mentioned - reable source of daily bread
Viron & Saibron are over priced
Kobe-ya, Donq, (even Paul) etc... They are just selling industrial products, as for french, bread have to be baked on the premises (by a certified baker)
bass4funk
No, thanks! I'll stick to German "Roggenbread" can't be beat and is much, much healthier.
fds
currently i like viron. maison kayser used to be good when it was only the denenchofu store but since they have expanded quality has fallen.
globalwatcher
My one suit case will be filled with all French and German bread when returning to the USA. I plan to freeze these for future use. they are all the best of best and delicious..Ah...................................
karlrb
SmithinJapan etc: To get pumpernickel, I've had to import it (pumpernickel meal) from USA and then use my Costco breadmaker to bake the bread. My friends love the bread - and that sweet pumpernickel taste - great. I had to get some dark molasses and caraway seeds, but that's pretty easy in Japan.