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18 trainee doctors who ignored dining ban infected with coronavirus

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Remember that in Japan, doctors act like gods and that attitude starts early on as we have seen by this latest display of "I know better than you, I'm a doctor". This is just another reason to not blindly accept what your doctor tells you, they are human and make mistakes or do really stupid things.

26 ( +30 / -4 )

No BusinessToday 07:54 am JST

I have little faith in Japanese doctors at the best of times.

It depends on where you go. My experiences with doctors and surgeons at the major hospitals in Tokyo have been very positive, as Zichi says.

On the other hand, many doctors are only doctors because their families are rich and have connections. You can usually spot those though, as they tell you "it's just stress" and dish out a bagful of antibiotics as a matter of course.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

No Business

I have little faith in Japanese doctors at the best of times.

I have the opposite experience. Over the last year my health problem involved many doctors across three hospitals. They all impressed me with their healthcare including discussing every aspect of my case.

15 ( +20 / -5 )

Perhaps it isn’t clear from the wording of the article but the “repeated calls not to join such gatherings” were from the university itself on top of the Tokyo governor’s.

There was a similar case at Hirosaki University in Aomori. A new intern who went on a trip March 9-17 to Barcelona and Paris with five others, returned to Haneda Airport on the 17th, stayed a night at a hotel in Kawasaki, drove in his own car back to Hirosaki, over the next few days took care of errands like applying for his doctor’s license, shopping, stopping by the place he had worked part time to say goodbye, and on the 23rd went dining/drinking at three different establishments in Hirosaki in a group of 30 fellow new interns and other medical school students. On the 25th he moved to Odate, in Akita to take up his position at a hospital there. On the 30th he had a PCR test and the results on April 2 showed he was positive for COVID-19. Another from the drinking group, who had then moved to work at a hospital in Hachinohe has also tested positive. Interns from this university have gone to work at 61 different hospitals in about 20 different prefectures (12 are in Aomori Pre.). Notifying, testing, are being done, with some already confirmed negative. Stay tuned.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

KnowBetterToday  06:50 am JST

Remember that in Japan, doctors act like gods and that attitude starts early on as we have seen by this latest display of "I know better than you, I'm a doctor". 

Yes but these were trainee doictors, presume interns. All it would have taken is a word from above to cancel this meeting. It is a unforgivable failure of the higher ups at Keio Univ Hospital as much as a lack of common sense on the part of the trainees.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

no indication they went of their own volition. why didn't the hospital cancel the gathering?

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Those are interns, so most likely they were just taken there by senior members. Those should be the ones to get the punishment.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Very frustrating to read of this 'regrettable' action taking place.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

This is classic example of herd mentality I don’t know if those residences had any choice but to follow someone seniors orders

what a mess , I hope they didn’t infect anyone else

9 ( +13 / -4 )

I have little faith in Japanese doctors at the best of times.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

I'm not sure why so many here are blaming the hospital and/or these idiots' superiors. Nowhere in the article does it say this was a work/school-related event. But, it does say that they ignored "repeated calls not to join such gatherings". So, it sounds like the university had warned its students. And, if they were giving such warnings, why would they hold such an event they were warning against?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Why isn't it the fault of the trainees? There is nothing stating this was a work related event. Chances are it was just a gokon, or since they are resident trainees, a gathering of friends.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

On the bright side, they will likely be immune from Corona....

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Common sense!!!!..Yeah we are talking about Japan arnt we...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

kurisupisuToday  09:16 am JST

“Reading the article and it states that they were warned not to go by?

It is not stated.”

Keio University released a statement saying they had issued repeated messages advising against participation in such gatherings.

Invalid CSRF

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This is an intolerable act as persons engaging in medical care who should protect patients. I offer my deep apology

And yet it's being tolerated. No consequences...most likely a slap on the wrist, and a deep bow to the superiors that they embarrassed.

And this is what is wrong with Japan and it's handling of this situation.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Forgot to include that the five others who went on the trip to Spain and France are also newly graduated interns from Hirosaki University. Their PCR test results were all negative.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I wonder if they were the the bottom 40 of their class?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well done, guys! I'm sure similar reports will start to come in about people who joined hanami parties together despite warnings not to. It's a shame these people have to learn the hard way, but it seems that's the only way they are going to learn. Let's hope they haven't already spread it to other medical staff, patients, and family and friends.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Idiots. The whole lot of 'em!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Reckless

My experience in Tokyo is that the doctors here are good and have access to state of the art medicines. In the inaka I would be much less confident because of lack of accountability and transparency in the medical fiefdoms.

I can reassure you from my personal experience there are good hospitals and doctors here in the countryside. Nothing like having a hospital in the middle of farming fields and beautiful nature with clean air.

Those hospitals too have all the latest medical technology like CT scans and MRI and all the therapies needed to cure people.

I know doctors in the mountains running clinics and providing amazing services to the local community.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

No amount of urging by government or top leaders can stop gatherings, because it is an integral part of culture.

Japan don’t follow rules when it is against the culture, just look at walking on escalators. I expect the same compliance rate with the emergency law as the compliance rate with escalator walking as long as Japan don’t implement any type of punishment.

This cluster was identified because they were doctors at a top hospital. For most common people, it is very unlikely they would be tested, and many of whom have no choice but to continue to attend to nomikais when invited by their senpai, etc.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This happened only 6 days before thousands go to school for opening day

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Common sense!!!!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

J-incompetence at its finest!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Regardless of their social status in Japanese society, doctors are not above the laws, regulations, or protocols. By ignoring the gathering ban, these trainee doctors seriously risked the health of public, medical colleagues, and their own. Equally critical, their misconduct would harm public confidence in the profession. Apart from the fines by the government, the Japan Medical Association should censure these trainee doctors for their violations.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

First lesson for the trainee...follow the orders.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Physician, heal thyself. You have no choice but to, because there are no hospital beds available... Invalid CSRF

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Well, in two weeks they will be OK are safe to work with patients. I think until there is a vaccine, we will increasingly be looking for "cleared Corona" certificates.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

did they test all the doctors who came in contact with them and found only 17 to have positive results? or they tested 17 out of all the group because they had symptoms then got 17 positive results?

I think with such number, they should test all the staff at that hospital, everyone in their residential building, their families and friends who came into contact with them, the restaurant staff where they gathered for dining, notify the people who use the same commute as the ones who were came back positive,...

so many measures should be done in order to have somewhat control over the spread...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

garypen

@zichi

I know doctors in the mountains running clinics and providing amazing services to the local community.

Is there a resource for such information? I would love to have a list of highly-rated medical facilities in the Kita Osaka area to avoid the crowded hospitals in Osaka or Kyoto proper.

I don't have an immediate answer for you only speaking from my personal experience. I have found the hospitals in the countryside better than many city ones. The staff are more relaxed and less stress.

The benefit of the national health system is that you can visit any hospital anywhere but sometimes you may need a letter from a doctor at your nearest hospital.

In my own case I visited my nearest local hospital which then referred me to another not far away hospital for a biopsy and then they referred me to a hospital in Kobe for an op. Then back to the first hospital for post op checkups.

I have many friends who are doctors mostly in countryside and smaller communities.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Probably an end-of-semester party. There’s obviously a leader/superior/sempai/professor behind this. I blame him/her.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Covidiots!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

How many were training to be Infectious Diseases Specialists?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Darwin strikes again

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hope their career is not over because of one such stupid mistake.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

My experience in Tokyo is that the doctors here are good and have access to state of the art medicines. In the inaka I would be much less confident because of lack of accountability and transparency in the medical fiefdoms. The silver lining here is that these young doctors will be immune if the number of infected rises dramatically.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes they were idiots, but it's hardly like the people in power have been shouting loudly enough about the risk.

'Urging' people not to do something is simply not enough - as many people have been saying over and over again for almost two months now. Asking people not to go out at the weekend, yet allowing business as usual from Monday to Friday, isn't giving off anywhere near the right message.

I've seen it all around where I live. Not enough people have made changes to their lifestyles, and so many people think 'it's OK if I just go to Starbucks', or 'it's OK if I only go into Tokyo once this week'.

Izakayas have been open. Cafe's and restaurants have been open. My university is still scheduled to restart classes next Monday.

18 trainee doctors were infected during a gathering of 40 people. Well, I've just had a look at my new class registers, and my first class of the year - 09:00 next Monday morning - has a grand total of 48 students. Great. 8 classes scheduled for the week, and my lowest number of students is 36.

...and no, there is no plan to move classes online.

I guess the plan is just to wait for the first cluster of cases, and then shut things down, call people stupid, and the powers that be who aren't putting themselves into the dangerous positions will just bow and offer the usual platitudes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@blahblah222

Walking on escalators is a new thing. It was forbidden until the mid-1990s and very few people walked before that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@zichi

I know doctors in the mountains running clinics and providing amazing services to the local community.

Is there a resource for such information? I would love to have a list of highly-rated medical facilities in the Kita Osaka area to avoid the crowded hospitals in Osaka or Kyoto proper.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan’s game plan, up until the Olympics were deferred, was predicated on the assumption that allowing people to behave stupidly with impunity eventually confers herd immunity. Realizing this approach risks overwhelming the health system, it’s now switched strategies. As we can see here though, there are obviously those even on the front lines who never got the memo and are faithfully doing their originally assigned part.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Reading the article and it states that they were warned not to go by?

It is not stated.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The tracking system is quite something. They are not able to track most case in Tokyo but know precisely than 18 person working in the same place, which happen to be an hospital full of patient, catch an disease during their non working time at a gathering. Ah ! Yes I forgot that is the virus famous for not contaminating during transit and working time. Any new case ? Go back in time until you found an outing and you got the source of infection. Could they possibly change the narrative and address the issue seriously ?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

It isn’t the fault of the trainees.

No authority in Japan was adequately preparing doctors in Japan for this.

Not reading overseas news in English for the majority and mass group think means little proactivity.

The students got sick due to ignorance

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

At least they are living and learning ...

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

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