70% of Japan flight attendants report photos taken of them secretly

Uniform fetishism? Sick!

Is this really surprising? Probably more than 70% of all of us who are not flight attendants can reported that photos have been or likely have been taken of us surreptitiously sometime in our lives.

Twenty-nine percent said they had not been secretly photographed.

How would they known either way, if the filming was done in secret?

Maybe they just pickup bad vibes from someone...

Or another attendant saw it happen and told them, or a passenger, or the photo was found online or whatever.

I was on a plane yesterday. I found myself staring at the young sky mark attendants too. They were immaculate and pretty and the service is impeccable. They are so careful with moving the trolley, or handing you coffee, or flushing the toilet each time they go up to the bathroom. And they smile constantly. If flight service is an art, the Japanese have mastered it,

66 percent answered they faced "persistent complaints or reprimands"

In my opinion here is where the problem lies.

Indeed a very weird and disgusting aspect of the japanese culture, once the person thinks he's "right" there is absolutely no boundaries. Barking unreasonably high for everyone to listen is just the beginning, followed by multiple "desho?" "I'm right aren't I?".

… while 54 percent had encountered people "deliberately" not wearing a mask despite antivirus rules.

It is genuinely hard to believe that 54% of flight attendants inside Japan have encountered people deliberately not wearing a mask. In the country where people wear masks when driving alone? Really?

I'm pretty sure that the actual number is higher than 70%, for, as already pointed out, you can be photographed without knowing it.

But, again, I have to ask "Is this news?" What is happening to Japan Today? These days I see nothing but fluff.

It is genuinely hard to believe that 54% of flight attendants inside Japan have encountered people deliberately not wearing a mask. In the country where people wear masks when driving alone? Really?

Huh? Do you think that every Japanese person is exactly the same with no variance? Such a culture does not exist in the real world.

Now look at it in reverse - a couple hundred people on each flight, a few flights a week, it's not unrealistic to think that a flight attendant would see 1000+ different people per month. Add up 3 years of a pandemic, you're looking at tens of thousands of passengers.

I think it's a testament to how much Japanese people follow the rules, that only 54% have run into this. That means that almost half of flight attendants didn't see a single instance of this, with tens of thousands of passengers.

Did the attendants in the stock photo know they were being photographed??.....

Beyond those pictures, all citizens are constantly filmed and spied by all the cameras around.

I also do not want be taken but I am quite sure I am one those guys behind someone’s selfie or whatever

The government is considering making upskirting and secretly taking pictures of genitals crimes punishable under the Penal Code.

So is this presently legal?

So is this presently legal?

If I recall, upskirt pictures are covered under the public nuisance act. This will increase existing penalties.

What about all the street cameras, apartment cctv and now dash cams that film your every move?

Too many mentally sick and gross people out there especially today. The morally strong people should look out for each other, its also huge to call these actions out if you spot them in public. If more of these scum are just simply called out by others I guarantee that would deter them a bit as well.

“ Some flight attendants said they refrained from taking action because it "might offend the passenger" or that they were "afraid" to bring attention to their vulnerable position in relation to customers. “

This is the key…; flight attendants are in a very vulnerable position, indeed…; we should give them more “power” and independence so that when something “unusual” happens, they can have the courage/confidence to react and speak up against any kind of abuse…; I love flight attendants and their pretty uniforms (I mean, who doesn’t(?)) but I would never take a picture of a flight attendant without her consent…; this is unacceptable.

PaulToday  06:50 am JST Uniform fetishism? Sick!

So we’re all sick, is that what you mean(?); or are you some kind of robot?

What about all the street cameras, apartment cctv and now dash cams that film your every move?

Exactly, the few surreptitious photos of flight attendants can’t even compare to the mass filming done throughout society without your permission. Ever use a train station? How about an elevator?

Exactly, the few surreptitious photos of flight attendants can’t even compare to the mass filming done throughout society without your permission. Ever use a train station? How about an elevator?

That's not illegal in Japan.

Crowd shots are legal. Publishing pictures that infringe upon one's right to privacy are not. Currently, taking pictures that infringe upon one's right to privacy are not illegal, unless they infringe upon public nuisance laws, like upskirt shots.

As with everything, it's very nuanced. Of course, simple people will try to boil it down to a simple argument they can use as a simple talking point. It takes a degree of intelligence to navigate the nuances of it.

That surely contradicts with the meaning of ‘secretly’. Sounds much more a bit narcissistic, something like ‘oh, they very likely or surely make one photo after the other of my irresistible wonderfully formed beautiful body appearance, and that’s deep in my heart and in fact why I chose this profession first hand.’

Confident that the same is not occuring with Delta or American Airlines. I am struggling to think of why that might be the case.

""calling for tougher penalties against the act."" Lord help us!! people take photos because they are beautiful, dressed with a unique uniform, and can only see them at airports or planes. Now some creepy jerks may take some photos that may be used for other purposes and I agree they should be punished, but the majority do NOT.

That surely contradicts with the meaning of ‘secretly’.

I wasn't giving it as a definition of having pictures secretly taken of them. I don't know the details of that.

MarkToday 08:32 am JST

""calling for tougher penalties against the act."" Lord help us!! people take photos because they are beautiful, dressed with a unique uniform, and can only see them at airports or planes. Now some creepy jerks may take some photos that may be used for other purposes and I agree they should be punished, but the majority do NOT.

You just summarily dismissed the very real concerns of a large group of people who have widely experienced sexual harassment, abuse, and assault - do you realize that?

RodneyToday 07:52 am JST

What about all the street cameras, apartment cctv and now dash cams that film your every move?

I get your point but I think their point is different. They have photos taken against their wishes and I don't think street cameras take upskirt photos or zoom in on breasts and bottoms. I think the female flight attendants generally look great on JAL and ANA but I have never once thought about taking a photo of any of them. Just some nice eye candy during the flight and in the airport.

 to react and speak up against any kind of abuse…; 

So, let me understand something here, to your way of thinking, taking a picture of a flight attendant is "abuse?"

Confident that the same is not occuring with Delta or American Airlines. I am struggling to think of why that might be the case.

Not many phones have wide-angle lenses?

Is taking a photo of someone in public illegal in Japan? Taking panty shots should be illegal, if it isn't already.

Being pretty has some downsides. Think of all the times a smile works in your favor to get what you like too. There are good and bad aspects for almost any job and in being attractive. It is a burden, sometimes.

I've never thought to photograph workers on airplanes. I know when they are nice to me that they are just doing their job. It isn't from any personal interest ... er ... anymore.

Is taking a photo of someone in public illegal in Japan? Taking panty shots should be illegal, if it isn't already.

In Japan, pictures of crowds are legal. Pictures of individuals are legal until you violate public decency laws, which includes upskirt photos. Publishing images that violate an individual's right to privacy is illegal. So taking a picture of an individual and posting it online could be considered to be breaching their right to privacy.

Anyone else noting the irony of using a photo of flight attendants at the top of an article about the problem of people taking photos of flight attendants?

I don't get it, it's a photo. Imagine how many CCTV cameras take pictures of you everyday.

 "while 33 percent said they were not sure but "believe" it has happened,"

Believe is the key word here...

YubaruToday  08:54 am JST

 to react and speak up against any kind of abuse…; 

“ So, let me understand something here, to your way of thinking, taking a picture of a flight attendant is "abuse?" “

Okay, let me ask you this: why would anyone secretly take a picture of a flight attendant(?)…; and who’s more likely to take that picture(?) (what kind of person…)…; if you’re honest, you’ll know the rest…;

yes, it’s not physical or verbal abuse but it’s still abuse because the flight attendant will be emotionally and psychologically affected.

I don't get it, it's a photo. Imagine how many CCTV cameras take pictures of you everyday.

It is illegal to publish photos that infringe upon one's right to privacy.

"It is a very serious issue," Akira Naito, chairman of the union association, said during a press conference. "Tougher penalties will deter" people from taking illicit photographs, he said.

99% of flight attendants in Japan are female* but the head of their union is a bloke?!

Bwahahahaha, good old Japan!

TT

*https://hrmasia.com/japanese-airlines-now-accept-male-cabin-crew/

YubaruToday  08:54 am JST

 to react and speak up against any kind of abuse…; 

“ So, let me understand something here, to your way of thinking, taking a picture of a flight attendant is "abuse?" “

Okay, let me ask you this: why would anyone secretly take a picture of a flight attendant(?)…; and who’s more likely to take that picture(?) (what kind of person…)…; if you’re honest, you’ll know the rest…;

yes, it’s not physical or verbal abuse but it’s still abuse because the flight attendant will be emotionally and psychologically affected.

While most cabin crew reported face and full body pictures had been taken, others replied that they were "upskirted" or had their chest or behind photographed.

Is a flight considered to be a public space? If it is then taking photos are allowed. Taking creepy photos of flight attendants and other passengers is not. Never even taken a single photo. I wouldn't think to do that.

Thirty-eight percent of respondents said their pictures had been secretly taken, while 33 percent said they were not sure but "believe" it has happened, 

Shouldn't the latter 33 % be included to give the 70 % secret photo-taking result?

With customers sitting down, some with bags on the floor, everyone on the plane carrying a mobile camera phone, customers able to select aisle seats, and the attendants having to walk past many times, I would imagine attempted upskirting is rife. To the point where the uniform probably shouldn't include a skirt. If I were JAL boss, I would let female staff wear trousers.

The inside of a plane is private space, and the airlines often have rules regulating the taking of photos.

The inside of a plane is private space, and the airlines often have rules regulating the taking of photos.

So what? Does not mean you can misbehave... And get away with it.

RKLToday  10:44 am JST

The inside of a plane is private space, and the airlines often have rules regulating the taking of photos.

A rule or policy is not the law. There are no laws against photography on an airline.

You see plenty of videos of people fighting on American carriers. Ever heard of anyone taking the video charged with a crime? No, of course not.

How does a flight attendant know whether or not the person is taking a selfie or taking a photo with the other camera? Osmosis? Mental telepathy?

Gender-war propaganda machine hard at work. Now we are including speculation as a statistical fact. You can see by the comments here, that people are taking this in as fact. This seems more like scapegoating to me. Maybe check their Instagram accounts to see if they are posting selfies in their uniform. What's the company policy on that? It's a company uniform.

Okay, let me ask you this: why would anyone secretly take a picture of a flight attendant(?)…; and who’s more likely to take that picture(?) (what kind of person…)…; if you’re honest, you’ll know the rest…;

yes, it’s not physical or verbal abuse but it’s still abuse because the flight attendant will be emotionally and psychologically affected.

You miss it entirely. By your definition the picture here on this article is "abuse" by your standards! There is no way anyone knows that their pictures were taken with their permission.

So these two CA's are being "abused", again by your assumptions.

You assume people are taking them "secretly" as well, but I guess you just like making assumptions.

How about this: Don't be a douche. Only take pictures of people with their permission. Seems easy to me.

It’s definitely a sexist industry in Asia. Maybe they should have the option of wearing pantsuits like a lot of middle aged western flight attendants or hire woman that over the age of 25… or actually have male stuards.

They should offer photo taking for a price. It’s not all intended sexual in nature. It can be just a holiday memory photo for many people and children, and the hostess can make some extra income. Win win situation for all.

How would they known either way, if the filming was done in secret?

There are apps that allow you to take pictures without making a sound. Perhaps some of these flight attendants suspected that pictures were being taken of them because of the way that passengers were facing their phones toward them.

Along with illicit pictures, it is interesting that other risky behaviours cited by them is people "deliberately" not wearing a mask despite antivirus rules.

its also interesting that you feel the need to conflate these. Although how risky such behavoir is, has been shown to be negligible (Cochrane report).

however I digress.

What is the problem with normal photos of Airhostesses ?

In Japan it is just photos of uniformed women wearing masks.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde:

There is only one thing worse than being secretly photographed, and that's not being secretly photographed because no one likes you enough to bother.

So crazy to see their name tags not even erased. Great work Japan Today and Reuters.

It’s definitely a sexist industry in Asia. Maybe they should have the option of wearing pantsuits

if it is sexist they should fix it by making sure 50% of the staff are male.

panysuit is the equivalent of solving sexism by having men wear skirts.

I didn't. The article did. Interesting you get touchy about the article reporting the facts.

the article reports two things (among others).

You said that this was “interesting”- would this be because you believe in some link/venn overlap between behaving arguably unreasonably wrt to photographs, and refusing to wear masks? (To which the article makes no implicit allusion)

You miss it entirely. By your definition the picture here on this article is "abuse" by your standards! There is no way anyone knows that their pictures were taken with their permission.

So these two CA's are being "abused", again by your assumptions.

You assume people are taking them "secretly" as well, but I guess you just like making assumptions.

The picture on the article was taken under completely different circumstances…, also, consider the place where it was taken… but you already know this, right(?)…; you’re distorting the meaning of what I said and that’s not cool…;

assumptions(?)…; it’s called facts…; listen to what these women have to say and take them seriously.

You miss it entirely. By your definition the picture here on this article is "abuse" by your standards! There is no way anyone knows that their pictures were taken with their permission.

The photo at the top of this page is entirely a posed shot. These ladies definitely knew they were having their picture taken, and would have signed waivers with Reuters.

StrangerlandToday  03:09 pm JST

The photo at the top of this page is entirely a posed shot. These ladies definitely knew they were having their picture taken, and would have signed waivers with Reuters.

No. They are not allowed to sign waivers, to have their photos taken, on their own while in JAL uniforms.

Any waiver would have come from JAL.

No. They are not allowed to sign waivers, to have their photos taken, on their own while in JAL uniforms.

Any waiver would have come from JAL.

Any waiver would come from both, bruh. Their waver most definitely is required. As is JAL's.

Have you ever been part of a photo shoot like this? I've been part of at least a dozen...

What is the problem with normal photos of Airhostesses ?

You dont realize this reference here is sexist?

Any waiver would come from both, bruh. Their waver most definitely is required. As is JAL's.

They signed the "waiver" when they were hired.

Who are these sort of people with their image capturing targeting certain females while in work uniform are? and their actions? Dishonest intention come to mind as the article suggests. Dishonest perverts. I wonder if these people are the fathers of the Sushi Terrorist ? My imagination runs away with thoughts of while sushi terrorist are plying their evil their evil father were maybe out clicking aways at the women mention in the article.. What I have notice about JAL Flight Attendants male and female they do an excellent job in quieting the children down on long haul flights that said .I hope they catch these man of dishonest intent and perversity .

70%!? This does not happen anywhere else in the world.

How do you know? I'm betting a dollar to a donut you didn't look up any other country before making that statement.

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2022/10/31/flight-attendant-physically-detained-passenger-because-they-thought-he-had-taken-a-photograph-of-them/

Awa no GaijinToday 09:22 am JST

This is why the minority groups as yourself are more of a problem than a solution

Women are 50% of the population. It's interesting that you call women a "minority group." Do you see us that way?

as your always overreacting over-exaggerating and attacking others which is also a form of abuse.

I see. Asking men not violate our privacy by asking photos of us when we are in public, that they will later use for their own personal pleasure, is overreacting and attacking others.

Women spend alot of time making themselves attractive to gain attraction.

I see. Women putting on makeup, dressing nicely, and looking attractive to men makes our bodies public property, so men get to do whatever they want to us even if we don't like it.

Yeah, nah.

In short, men taking photos of women because they find them sexually attractive is a violation of privacy and is creepy. We don't like it, and when these men do it they are violating our autonomy and our right to exist in public without being turned into public property.

We don't exist for your pleasure. if you want pictures of sexually attractive women, go buy a wankbook - that's what it is for - and leave us alone.

note:

as expected, some people are underestimating the gravity of what these women are saying and the impact that this kind of unacceptable behavior can have on women. Some people like to complicate things and they stop focusing on what needs to be discussed.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

We don't exist for your pleasure. if you want pictures of sexually attractive women, go buy a wankbook - that's what it is for - and leave us alone.

comment of the day!

I remember I read a news a few years ago, there was a guy in Hong Kong he was obsessed to stalk flight attendants and stole their luggages when they were unaware. The HK police found he was specialised to collect their under wear. Sick!

Is this really surprising? Probably more than 70% of all of us who are not flight attendants can reported that photos have been or likely have been taken of us surreptitiously sometime in our lives.

The biggest surreptitious offender is the government. Street cams are ubiquitious. The government may take photos under the aegis of security, but we are photographed daily while in public places going about minding our own businesses. Living out in the country and not using public transportation or heading into urban areas is probably the best way to guarantee that we are not surveiled some way or another.

The government is considering making upskirting and secretly taking pictures of genitals crimes punishable under the Penal Code.

'Considering'? In any other country it IS an offence

Whenever I journey overseas, I prefer Japanese airlines, as Japanese flight attendants are both kind and competent. Though an aging male, I am not unaware of how charming they are as well, but that should be all the more reason to treat them,　with full respect.

Speaking of.....who took this photo?

bass4funk

Speaking of.....who took this photo?

Benoît Tessier/Reuters

2020 for an article on JAL ditches compulsory high heels and skirts

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/27/japan-airlines-ditches-compulsory-high-heels-and-skirts-in-big-win-for-kutoo-movement

With everyone carrying smartphones equipped with a camera, this should not come as a surprise. In addition, taking pictures of people in public places has become commonplace. As for an airplane, is the passenger cabin considered a public place?

fatrainfallingintheforest

wallace,

> The wider shot in your link (that includes another person in the background) makes me think I was wrong in my comment above ("it looks like a total "act natural" pose") but they may have seen the camera and reacted anyway. Good find.

You can easily search for most images with Google Go.

I see. Women putting on makeup, dressing nicely, and looking attractive to men makes our bodies public property, so men get to do whatever they want to us even if we don't like it.

Nobody is touching anyone's body. Looking isn't touching.

Looking from a normal stance or normal seated position isn't a violation. People have the right to look at each other. There are practical reasons why this must be so. Courts have decided that looking is roughly the same as photography in much of the world.

If you had your way, nobody would see you except the 20 people in the world you trust? That's not reality. Expecting everyone else to agree not to look is ... crazy ... for lack of a better term.

A prior girlfriend explained the issue of men staring at her and why she felt violated when it happened. A man in an airport wanked with a coat covering his hand and waist why staring at her. I believe it happened. It traumatized her. In the end, she wanted men she found attractive to look, but nobody else. I was in the "allowed list", thankfully. She was a logical woman otherwise, but I asked her how men are supposed to know who she finds attractive so everyone else can never look in her direction. She didn't have an answer. I think she finally understood why it wasn't reasonable to expect everyone in the world not to look.

None of this will change the way you feel or that you feel violated. That's something to work out ... or age will solve, eventually.

A prior girlfriend explained the issue of men staring at her and why she felt violated when it happened. A man in an airport wanked with a coat covering his hand and waist why staring at her. I believe it happened. It traumatized her. In the end, she wanted men she found attractive to look, but nobody else. I was in the "allowed list", thankfully. She was a logical woman otherwise, but I asked her how men are supposed to know who she finds attractive so everyone else can never look in her direction. She didn't have an answer. I think she finally understood why it wasn't reasonable to expect everyone in the world not to look.

Reminds me of the women who complain about men always hitting on them, then move to Japan, and complain that no men at all are interested in there them there. It's a trope I heard repeated so many times over the years.

The photo at the top of this page is entirely a posed shot. These ladies definitely knew they were having their picture taken, and would have signed waivers with Reuters.

A waiver is only needed if the photo is used for commercial purposes.

There in no privacy in public. All photos you see here and on other sites taken in public, e.g. the standard uncreative photo of people walking by the stock market tickers, people walking in Shibuya crossing, etc., do not require a waiver.

There in no privacy in public.

There is in Japan. If you take a picture of an individual in Japan, and publish it, you can be considered to have violated their privacy. It's why crowd photos are allowed, while images focusing on an individual can lead to troubles.

For those who can read Japanese, and want to read the real rules, and not what a bunch of foreigners think they should be: https://legal-diary.jp/diary/%E3%81%9D%E3%81%AE%E6%92%AE%E5%BD%B1%E3%80%81%E9%81%95%E6%B3%95%E3%81%A7%E3%81%99%EF%BC%9F%E5%86%99%E7%9C%9F%E3%82%92%E6%92%AE%E3%82%8B%E6%99%82%E3%81%AE%E6%B3%95%E5%BE%8B%E5%95%8F%E9%A1%8C%E3%81%AB/

It is genuinely hard to believe that 54% of flight attendants inside Japan have encountered people deliberately not wearing a mask. 

I was in Japan last summer for about 6 weeks and traveled all over the country. It wasn't prevalent, but everywhere I went there were a few white western folk going maskless. Not that many, but a few every day on trains and planes.

Confident that the same is not occuring with Delta or American Airlines. I am struggling to think of why that might be the case.

If you are a seasoned international traveler from the states, then I understand your implication and cannot disagree.

I sympathize with the flight attendants. However, the old-fashioned insistence of most Japanese airlines on hiring only young, good-looking female flight attendants may be a factor. They are expected to marry and retire by 30, and if they don’t they tend to get shifted to office jobs, I believe.

Awa no GaijinMar. 10 11:46 pm JST

Prove it !

If you disbelieve me that women make up half the world's population, I'm sure you know how to find out whether it is true or not and don't need me to "prove it."

Thats absolutely BS as we can all see my previous comment most certainly didn't call women a minority group.

Yes, you did.

I remember reading a post of yours two years ago stating you weren't female.

No, you did not, because I am female.

Either way you have made it perfectly clear and beyond any shadow of doubt that you are indeed a member of the minority group of non heterosexual /LGBTQ /queer or whatever else group !

And ...???

Furthermore always making a mountain out of a mole hill and grossly exaggerating just as trying to label me as sexist which is preposterous given the fact i want more respect for women in Japan.

So you're saying that politely asking that men not take photos of me when I don't want them to is wrong of me, and that I'm exaggerating when I say that sexism exits. Oh, and of course, you have nothing but respect for women. You just think it's okay for men to take their photos without their consent.

badmanToday 03:47 am JST

Confident that the same is not occuring with Delta or American Airlines. I am struggling to think of why that might be the case.

If you are a seasoned international traveler from the states, then I understand your implication and cannot disagree

Right, because only conventionally attractive women deserve to be treated with respect and consideration, amirite?

 We don't like it, and when these men do it they are violating our autonomy and our right to exist in public without being turned into public property.

Interesting, no where in the article does it state that the CA's who were surveyed were 100% female. That is an assumption on your part.

Another assumption is that you are evidently speaking for all the women in the world, but you are just stating your own opinion, but are so arrogant as to include all the rest in your statement.

I know plenty of women who LOVE having their picture taken, and go to great lengths to include themselves in the photos, invited or not.

You know it hurts pretty badly when you fall from your pedestal.

Right, because only conventionally attractive women deserve to be treated with respect and consideration

What the heck are "conventionally attractive women?"

ALL people male or female deserve to be treated with respect and consideration. But only women seem to matter to you.