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Experts ponder why cruise ship quarantine failed to prevent spread of virus

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By Maria Cheng and Mari Yamaguchi

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It didn't fail. We all learn from mistakes, or assumptions. And as for that last word, 'assumptions', when you make one, uninformed, you become the first three letters of that word.

-11 ( +10 / -21 )

“We need to understand how the quarantine measures on board were implemented, what the air filtration on board is like, how the cabins are connected and how waste products are disposed of,” MacDermott said

I am placing my money on the air filtration system as being the culprit! The influenza virus can attach itself to house dust, and stay alive for at least 24 hours in that environment, according to a recent TV medical show, so maybe this virus is more robust!

There is so much that is unknown about these viruses, and I believe the WORLD would benefit from more joint research and sharing of information to combat them, particularly at times like this!

12 ( +13 / -1 )

At this stage, “the spreading of the virus will be inevitable, and that’s why quarantine is out of the question,” Omi said.

In other words,there isn’t anything that can be done....

8 ( +10 / -2 )

It didn’t fail. It did exactly what a quarantine is designed to do... keep one group away from another.

-6 ( +14 / -20 )

Experts ponder why cruise ship quarantine failed in Japan

Cruise ships were not designed to prevent cross infection and not medical facility.

26 ( +27 / -1 )

The quarantine was largely for passengers because crew members kept sharing double rooms and continued to serve guests by delivering food, letters, towels and amenities, and entering passenger cabins for cleaning. Crew members also ate in groups in a crew mess hall.

1000 crew members not only ate together in groups but reportedly also shared bath rooms which are on a ship usually small and not well ventilated. Thus it is not astonishing that many health experts deem such quarantaine measures as dubious.

25 ( +25 / -0 )

As an extraordinary two-week quarantine of a cruise ship ends Wednesday in Japan, many scientists say it was a failed experiment: The ship seemed to serve as an incubator for the new virus from China instead of an isolation facility meant to prevent the worsening of an outbreak.

They need experts to ponder this scenario? Seriously? They quarantined the ship, but the passengers were still able to frequent common areas at certain times of the day. The ship quarantine amounted to nothing more than the ancient practice of putting all the sick kids in the same bed so they all get sick at the sane time. The 3.700 passengers should have been separated and even taken to different quarantine facilities.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

It didn’t fail. It did exactly what a quarantine is designed to do... keep one group away from another.

Those patient in ship are not counted as case in Japan, authorities make Japanese number low by keep it those poor people in that ship. It makes separate case between cases that found in Japan and that ship.

https://www.gislounge.com/this-map-is-tracking-the-wuhan-coronavirus-in-near-realtime/

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Regarding Westerdam cruise ship, Japan, Taiwan, Guam, Philippine,,,,all rejected the ship coming, because They said too many passengers for quarantine, so they can't do good care for them. That's all about it.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The most likely cause of the spread of the virus is through the crew. This is not particularly puzzling.

The real surprise is that Japan took responsibility for this liner. It is operated by Princess Cruises, an American company, so Japan could simply have told them to go to the US.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

As an extraordinary two-week quarantine of a cruise ship ends Wednesday in Japan, many scientists say it was a failed experiment:

A failed experiment with 3000 lab rats. The government of Japan thanks you for your contribution. Valuable data has been gathered.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

First paragraph looks so much like JT reader's comments from previous articles. I guess we are more intelligent than the "professionals" handling this disaster/failed "experiment" (their word, not mine). Wonder if the people on the ship knew they were part of an "experiment".

3 ( +6 / -3 )

How many of the crew contracted the virus? From the news reports, I don't recall seeing more than one or two, could be wrong, yet it appears that the overwhelming majority of those that contracted the disease were the passengers and a couple of medical workers, which is a head scratcher to me, if the following is accurate.

The quarantine was largely for passengers because crew members kept sharing double rooms and continued to serve guests by delivering food, letters, towels and amenities, and entering passenger cabins for cleaning. Crew members also ate in groups in a crew mess hall.

The crew was all over the ship, yet they didnt contract the virus in anywhere near the same numbers vs the number of passengers who did contract it.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

What exactly were the Japanese supposed to have done, let them all off the ship so they could infect everyone in kanto? Organise the flights to repatriate all the foreign nationals?

2 ( +13 / -11 )

It was primarily the crew. Mystery solved. But I expect the HVAC systems were involved, cheap mask use with improper anti-contamination training as were a few passengers refusing orders.

How many meetings will be needed to determine that?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

No one on the ship took it seriously

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I still feel that keeping the passengers on the ship was the only choice Japan had. How were they to deal with more than 3500 quarantined people for two weeks? This is not like mass victims from a disaster or earthquake. Each person should be isolated and monitored 24/7. It was just not doable in my opinion. They had one way to do this and they rolled the dice on keeping them on the ship.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Experts ponder why cruise ship quarantine failed to prevent spread of virus

You kept the people locked up with no game plan and starting letting people off ONLY WHEN they got sick and you need to ponder??

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Did the Japanese officials send a team to inspect the cruise ship to determine whether it can adequately serve as a quarantine quarters?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Surely mental care staffs were sent to the quarantine to make sure of passenger's well being. If doubles were allowed couples be able to kiss at night? Was contraceptive provided?

May be I want to know too much but keeping so many passenger sane while being broadcasted from inside and outside will really do my head in.

This is madness

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Here's what they should have done:

Notify the governments of all the different nationalities on the ship. Allow each gov to charter a bus that takes them to a plane that flies them to their respective countries so that their respective governments deal with their citizens.

For the japanese citizens and the citizens of countries unable or unwilling to charter a plane home, quarantine the remaining group somewhere far away- like (for example) the Ogasawara islands. They can build makeshift shelters there in DAYS complete with showers and washlet toilets (those who have worked in construction here in Japan know what I'm talking about) with plenty of space for all including private little gardens for all. There are tons of Islands in ogasawara that are uninhabited and have tons of space. Hell, I know companies personally that could have overseen the Ogasawara project completed in days. Worked for 2 of them.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

The quarantine was not to protect the people on the ship. It was to protect Japan from the people on the ship.

That is the truth.

25 ( +29 / -4 )

What exactly were the Japanese supposed to have done, let them all off the ship so they could infect everyone in kanto? Organise the flights to repatriate all the foreign nationals?

This is the thinking of the incompetent; what else could we have done? There are no solutions. There’s nothing we could have done.

However, Russian authorities have taken significant steps to try to keep the virus from spreading, including hospitalizing hundreds of people as a precaution after they returned from China.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Here's what they should have done:

Japan should have allowed its citizens off the ship and sent to quarantine centers. Supply the ship and send the ship away.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

It clearly failed as many experts have pointed out. They should have removed all the passengers on day one and isolated them in a proper enviroment with strict rules of contact. It seems the ship was not the best place for this and contact between passengers and crew continued. After the first batches of cases started to appear , it should have been clear what was happening. Instead, Japan wanted to keep it's total number of cases low by seperating the Diamond Princess.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

It is not interesting that America turned away the Westerdam and now look at situation.

Feel-good story surrounding MS Westerdam docking in Cambodia takes turn after passenger tests positive for coronavirus

We now have 3000 potential positive running around the world. Japan did the world a favor.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The people should got medical dose of anti viral drug, as a way for their body to fight the virus with a vaccination of the Pneumonia, it would probably help them build up an immunity from the virus,

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Quercetum, Russia have an outbreak of drug resistant TB, raging the street of Moscow daily

2 ( +3 / -1 )

there is a video going around with contamination professional that served in ebola and so on that sneaked on the ship for a day...

he says there was absolutely no proper countermeasures.

half the people werent wearing masks even they are sick, no contamination zones established and they all were passing same papers around at the very least... the whole operation is ran by bureaucrats with no experience and those hated being told anything at all.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

could it be that those who did not have in initially, got infected during quarantine through the central air system? i.e., it is airbone? yikesss....

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“experts”

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Scientists have reported in the past that the virus evolve faster than many other organisms in this planet. So these kind of epidemics will be recurrent in future. With the global climatic changes perhaps the habitat is getting a lot more conducive for these virus and micro-organisms to evolve and spread faster. The real serious question here is...can the human immune system evolve too at the same pace?...This is worth the debate. A new born baby needs to be vaccined with several shots to cope with such an chaos, just one of the many options.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yubaru, I would bet as far as the idiots in charge didnt even consider to test the crew.. since they are not paying customers and just "part of the ship"

7 ( +9 / -2 )

rest of the world is already evaluating what J. government did or did not do. Even the title of this article included word " failed".

The fundamental problem is that it seemed no one is charge, even different department said different things, we are going to test all, we can not test all.

this is a terrible lesson because of the high rate of infection, hope J. government can learn from this and do better job with the general public,

Finally, don't worry about the things that are not important, such as number of infected. it's more important how you going to treat them and reduce number of infected nationally.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

on 18th? breaking news? wouldnt a working crew be expected to be tested first and then put in proper gear? instead of living together and sharing quarters while they serve customers?

someone indeed tested for stupidity positively, would that be you?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It was all about to study virus and not to protect passengers as most of them

get sick during quarantine.. and problem just getting bigger..

0 ( +3 / -3 )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3X3RSmf7ds&feature=youtu.be

2 ( +2 / -0 )

 I guess we are more intelligent than the "professionals" handling this disaster/failed "experiment" 

That is often the case in Japan. That's why I don't wear a mask, regardless of the recommendations of Japanese "professionals." Same with gargling to prevent colds(!)

2 ( +7 / -5 )

To me it seems obvious that the crew & passengers were NOT QURARATINED, they were simply kept isolated from the mainland

And things were sloppy hence the obvious quick spread of the virus, all should have been removed & quarantined on land somewhere!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

YubaruToday  07:37 am JST

How many of the crew contracted the virus? From the news reports, I don't recall seeing more than one or two, could be wrong,

You are wrong. As of Feb 17 "at least" 33 crew members have been infected with coronavirus. And: "Crew members aboard the Diamond Princess aren’t afforded many of the same protections as the passengers they serve". "Only ten days into the 14-day quarantine did Princess Cruises ask crew members to take an extra precaution when eating ..."

Obet, a crew member in his 30s who also asked to be referred to with an alias, had been arranging meals and delivering them to passengers before he came down with a fever last week. When he reported it, he was told to isolate himself in his cabin and take the acetaminophen (a generic pain reliever) he had with him. After he ran out of pills, it took a day for the medical team to give him more.

Although he had recovered from his fever, Obet was told not to return to work. But he was still sharing a room with a cabin mate who was not experiencing any coronavirus symptoms. Obet says he did his best to keep a distance from him, and wore a mask whenever he was in the room. [...] Obet and his cabin-mate were tested for the coronavirus last week. On Saturday afternoon, they received the news that both of them were infected. 

There is also the question if crew members, most of them from third world countries were/are afforded the same priority for testing than high paying customers.

https://time.com/5784190/diamond-princess-cruise-crew-coronavirus/

4 ( +6 / -2 )

It didn't fail. We all learn from mistakes, or assumptions.

Well, the outbreak experts quoted in the article say that it DID fail but obviously your expert opinion is more valid.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Comments and opinions to the negative after the fact is not the solution here, since it WILL definitely affect us here in this host country. We need positive steps that the government and citizens here are taking and must take to prevent further spread of the disease and how we may protect ourselves.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Based on the information that has been associated with the spread of this virus, I agree with Yubaru that the ship became, essentially, an incubator due partially to the re-circulation air system on the ship. It seems like having an air filtration system on the ships that kills bacteria and pathogens by design would be a good idea. Same with aircraft. I am thinking ultraviolet light systems or others that would, at least, knock down some or all of these bacteria before actively spreading the air around the ship or plane. Maybe that already happens, if not, seems like a good, not too expensive proactive move to make.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Caliboy, the ship flies the British flag (registered in London) and was built in Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Kentaro Iwata of Kobe University, and infectious disease specialist, has a video on YouTube that SHOULD be front page news in Japan, but it won't be. Journalists should be lining up to interview him, but I think only non-Japanese will ever see his video.

He went on board the ship and said the procedures were utterly inadequate. But they will release them today, knowing they are all almost certainly infected. He said he was never so scared of being infected, even when dealing with Ebola.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

News reporting the Health Ministry just admitted that the measure they took was not the right measure. It now says potentially infected will not be kept 14 days but 2.5 days with tests to be done within 48 hours. If negative, then release. This is official.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Interesting article and lots of comments, however what is the qualification of these so called experts. Perhaps unknown information and poor planning for such an event. Even the very basic steps for an unknown pathogen should have implemented worse case scenario actions. The lets wait and see attitude surely had some aspect and outcomes. Question still remains on a synthetic pathogen, why and what purposes does it serve to research such a contagion with lax capabilities and policies, and what was to be gained by what real scientists worldwide just simply felt it best to not mess with this pathogen in the first place. The lab reported was a bio military facility. Aside military research what was the documentation or intel to approve such measures for additional research where there was no such existence of threat regarding this pathogen aside making it a super virus and for whose intention?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Seems every action the current j gov makes is a failed one. Sooner Abe’s out, the better for Japan,

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Wow, this reminds me of 9/11. The government says one thing and experts another. Who do we trust / believe? Will we ever know?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The quarantine was not to protect the people on the ship. It was to protect Japan from the people on the ship.

That's how it looks to me and I suppose you could say it's been successful in that aim.

It was very unfortunate for the folks on the ship. It's easy to lump them in with other groups who suffer from government action or inaction and dismiss them, but lots of wrongs don't make a right.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@jansob1

Thank you for drawing attention to infectious desease specialist Kentaro Iwata:

A link to the video and an English transcript is here. There's also a Japanese version on YouTube:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/japan-infectious-disease-expert-went-onboard-diamond-princess-investigate-got-kicked-out-6211922.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Just watched the whistleblowing by Prof. Iwata Kentaro, infectious disease specialist. He’s the second whistleblower after the Dr. in China who finally passed away. I will follow Iwata’s fortune in the coming days. We’re on the verge of something bigger I feel. Comments were turned off. Why?

https://youtu.be/HjyMZYt4YDA

3 ( +5 / -2 )

"The quarantine was not to protect the people on the ship. It was to protect Japan from the people on the ship."

Well, that may have been the intention but it has failed. You now have a potential 1000+ Japanese nationals with the virus being released over the next three days. This could have been a mere handful if everyone had been taken off at the beginning, tested and isolated in a proper environment.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ask the owner of the ship, P&O (British Company) or Princess Cruise (U.S management company)

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Ask the owner of the ship, P&O (British Company) or Princess Cruise (U.S management company)

Why? Do you think P&O or Princess Cruise should manage a quarantine of a new infectious disease?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Experts ponder why cruise ship quarantine failed to prevent spread of virus

By Maria Cheng and Mari YamaguchiTOKYO

As an extraordinary two-week quarantine of a cruise ship ends Wednesday in Japan, many scientists say it was a failed experiment: The ship seemed to serve as an incubator for the new virus from China instead of an isolation facility meant to prevent the worsening of an outbreak.

I’m really starting wonder how much of this is fake news. I mean C’mon!!

Common sense tells you that it’s impossible to contain the virus on a ship like that.

The REAL news is that it was a success as it did not spread off the ship.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

3 infected in the Capital. This will go up. You can’t just hope it’ll abate by the Games. Plan for treatment during the Olympics now.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"The question now is: Why?"

The short answer. A cruise ship is a hospital. Cabins are not isolation wards. A cruise is the ideal place to spread a disease.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Blast it! Second sentence would read, "A cruise ship in NOT a hospital."

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It fail because of incompetence, the Japanese were following the CDC guidelines, even the US CDC say their is no treatment, just stabilize the person, in the hope they get well

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Many have pointed out the interesting perspective from Iwata Kentaro PhD who was on the ship yesterday.

I thought I'd post the links to both the Japanese and English videos he made.

Japanese:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3X3RSmf7ds&feature=youtu.be

English;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjyMZYt4YDA

6 ( +8 / -2 )

2.5 days hahahha brilliant..

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The Japanese government has repeatedly defended the effectiveness of the quarantine. 

That's what "they" usually do, common habit. Defend, deny, and see what will happen.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Since many Countries rejected MS Westerdam, apparently they weren't able to do a better job than what Japan did with this cruise ship. Both Cambodia and Japan governments are now criticized for how they handled these ships, but it's funny if you think how other Countries simply rejected them like they were trash.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Based on what Dr Kentaro Iwata reported, it is no wonder why this is out of control, total lack of proper procedures handling a virus. If the health ministry allows the passengers and workers to just get off the ship with no addition quarantine Japan will be like Wuhan in a couple of weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtHYZkLuKcI

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The question now is: Why?

I guess there IS such a thing as a stupid question.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Try this doctors video if you want to find the answer.....sounds like a right cock-up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtHYZkLuKcI

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Alex80 - Have you watched the videos from Iwata Kentaro?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

To re-iterate from above:

The answer might be simple; Because the arrogant people in the government failed to listen to an expert such as the Japanese Doctor, Professor Iwata Kentaro. He is a specialist in this topic

https://youtu.be/HjyMZYt4YDA

But the Mainichi newspaper probably tips the hand as to what they are truly concerned about (and it is not our health)

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200212/p2a/00m/0na/001000c

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Stuff that's airborne and can pass from human to human will do exactly that, even after all the precautions. We can only hope that drug to combat the virus can be made and the sooner the better. Stay healthy out there.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If Japan release people on THAT boat into the public in the near future I fear it almost guarantee's some very real problems, could tank the entire economy & people dying....

ANYONE coming off THAT boat MUST be PROPERLY quarantined for a FURTHER 2wks MINIMUM....cant people I actually have to type the bleeding obvious!!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And, I know that Japan was one of the Countries that rejected the MS Westerdam, but I don't think you should blame it, it was dealing already with the Diamond Princess. The almighty US, whose many citizens are criticising other Countries actions, could accept it, but despite they are so perfect, competent and almighty, they rejected it. And both these ships are handled by AMERICAN companies that apparently, according to many people here, haven't any responsibilities towards their own clients, it's only fault of the governments of the Countries that tried to help these owned American ships.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Alex80, so the Diamond Princess, (which was built in Japan) should have sailed all the way to America? That would have taken 10 days at least? What a ridicious idea!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I must still see any person here criticising the American companies. Only some days ago, the Holland America had said every passenger in the MS Westerdam was fine, to persuade some Country to accept it. Cambodia accepted that ship and later we discover that an American woman was infected and now all the passengers of that ship are traveling around the world. But nobody here is blaming these American companies and how they handled the emergency in their own ships. Convenient as usual.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@Alex: I understand your feelings but the fact is that many are listening to a Japanese doctor specializing in the subject. I am from the U.S. living in Japan and I am not sure my country could handle this better or not but this subject is about this specific ship in Japan.

I will side with the Japanese expert in this case.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Tokyo-Engr: your Country is only afraid about how this crisis will impact Carnival business.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/business/coronavirus-carnival-cruise-ships.amp.html

It's funny, exactly what did Trump do for these American ships whose passengers are infecting the world now, besides to thank Cambodia to have accepted MS Westerdam, that his Country had REJECTED, despite being a ship of an American company?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

What experts ? They contribute nothing to the fight against virus but rukus.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The ship seemed to become an incubator for a new virus instead of an isolation facility meant to prevent the worsening of an outbreak.

Who could have possibly imagined? (other than everybody, except perhaps the gov't officials who approved this plan.)

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Alex80, This has nothing to do with the ship or the company that owns it. They follow the rules of the country in which they are docked; that is Japan. Stop trying to find others to blame. Perhaps you would blame China, because that is where the virus formed?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Fake experts are the sources of fake information.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

SoylentGreen, China doesn't create the virus, only the mighty one can do that.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Akie, are you saying that Professor Iwata Kentaro PhD is a fake expert?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@SoylentGreen: ah, seriously?! This has nothing to do with who owns the ship? This is what YOU think conveniently, I hope many clients sue Carnival that has an already outrageous history of cover up and disasters.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

SoylentGreen, does he make up fake information ?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Alex80, do you think Carnival should decide whether or not to have a quarantine? And that they should manage it? You would let a cruise ship company be responsibile for managing the potential outbreak of an infectious disease in a country? If you think about it carefully , you will notice there is no logic to it.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

And I could care less than people thumbs down, I already know perfect Americans mindset. It's always fault of the others.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Japan did what Japan could, that wasn't a failure.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@Akie: I read the Global Times, and while China isn't perfect, they are absolutely right about how the US is manipulating this event to bash China, when they can't even handle the emergencies in their own ships. They always need to blame the others and I like how China is well aware of this and in Chinese press you can find freely this kind of criticism. In Western press the Holy America is always better than the others.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Alex80, I was making a joke about where the ship is built! Of course it's not important where the ship was built, just as it's not important in this situation what company owns the ship. You also avoided the question. Do you think the company Carnival should have managed the quarantine?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@SoylentGreen: yup, American government did a better job on those American ships than Japanese and Cambodian governments. Oops, I forgot such a pity it didn't even tried. And this is my last reply because I am wasting my time.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Akie, Did you watch the professor's video? Of course, you didn't. He did not make up fake information, but he did criticise Japan's handling of the situation. Therefore, as no one is ever allowed to criticise Japan, he must be wrong.

Japan did what it did and, unfortunately, it failed. I am not happy to say that, but almost all oversers say so. It wasn't a terrible idea to keep passengers on the ship, but the measures taken onboard were not sufficient to keep people safe and stop the virus spreading. Saving face is not more important than saving lives. This exactly what China is realising.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Alex80, This has nothing to do with the ship or the company that owns it. They follow the rules of the country in which they are docked; that is Japan. Stop trying to find others to blame

But finding others to blame is standard operating procedure for certain posters masquerading as foreigners on here. Its never Japan at fault, always the big bad gaikoku.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Alex80, China did what China could to save the world, and Japan was in the fight against the virus with China since day one. Virus has no political agendas, it will kill everyone.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@SoylentGreen: OBVIOUSLY the company should have managed the emergency, not only the host Country of their ship! Especially, they shouldn't say that all the passengers were fine how they did with the MS Westerdam only to be accepted by some Country! If there's some mismanagement, the company must be PUNISHED, not how is happening with Boeing. And this is really my last reply.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

SoylentGreen, what do you mean by saying "almost all oversers " ? how almost, and how all ? Do you know how many people on this planet of earth ? More than 10, tell you the truth.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@soylentgreen

thanks for vids. Was looking for the English version.

Abe should put Iwata Kentaro PhD in charge immediately!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

To say that "cruise ship quarantine failed to prevent spread of virus" is a fake topic.

Japan did prevent the spread of virus. Just imagine if japa release those people to the world as they originally planned for their trips, and how many more people would be infected ?

Japan also had won valuable time for the world by restricting the movement of the highly suspected group.

Where is the failure ?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Akie, the failure was the management of the quarantine on the ship. If it had been done correctly, then it would have probably worked. The idea of doing the quarantine was fine but they failed to do it correctly. @Alex80 would have had the cruise company Carnival handle it because they would have done a better job than the Japanese government.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

you can shout all you want, until cows come home,

entire world watched this quarantine and most are saying it failed.

I understand those who wants to protect Japan's image, reputation and etc,etc.

I think Japan's image intacted, it's J government who needs to learn from this and be more

proactive /aggressive

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I think like SARS virus this one also spreads through the toilet, that's why even though the passengers were advised to stay inside the cabin they still can't control the spread of the COVID-19 Virus.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

After listening to the English video from Kentaro Iwata of Kobe University, I wonder why bureaucrats believe it is their responsibility to handle everything. This thinking seems to be a major issue with the hierarchical ruled society in Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjyMZYt4YDA

6 ( +8 / -2 )

If there is a central air-conditioning/heating system circulating air throughout the ship, then this could be why the infection spreads. If it was on "heat" then, depending on how easily the virus can mutate, some viruses from infected passengers in air passing through the heat source might have had their structure changed and evolved into a different variety. Ducted air-conditioning systems are always put into large structures for reasons of efficiency and economics, but health-wise, they are a menace.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You are speaking how if the ship was Japanese territory, but that isn't the case

What? Yes it is. Look at a map.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

As a virologist that has studied many infectious organisms over a long career, it seems to be rather irrelevant to my as to why this question is even being asked.

Whilst actively working on nCoV2019, we have been sharing our research globally Therefore, it shouldn’t come as a surprise to a panel of experts that this virus can survive outside of the host body on surfaces ranging from metal to glass and plastic for between 4-5 days, and sometimes up to 9 days.

Add this information to the layout of a cruise ship, and you have your answer. The only way to positively address the infectivity rate would have been to confine all (passengers AND crew) to quarters for the 14 day quarantine duration.

Unfortunately, passengers were allowed out of their cabins for short periods of time. This enabled to virus to spread via handrails, handles etc.

It would be hoped in the future that advice from us, and other knowledgeable bodies, that is passed on to government is heeded.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Even an innocent amateur could surmise that the cruise ship could be an incubator for the novel coronavirus. If the ship was marooned in a harbor with all passengers, of whom some might have been infected with the coronavirus, it's almost likely that the ship could become an incubator itself.

I posted on another thread, saying that:

"Seems infection spreads like wildfire here. Hasn't the cruise ship become an incubator itself of the novel coronavirus ...?"

The MS Princess Diamond is not a hospital ship equipped with medical facilities appropriate for infections like this. The crew members might have mingled with the passengers quite freely and casually, obviously wearing no hazmat suits.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Apologies for the spelling mistakes. Working and reading don’t always mix.

irrelevant to me

This enabled the virus

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The quarantine was largely for passengers because crew members kept sharing double rooms and continued to serve guests by delivering food, letters, towels and amenities, and entering passenger cabins for cleaning. Crew members also ate in groups in a crew mess hall.

"Unlike passengers, crew members share their rooms, they share food, and that's why some of them are infected even after the quarantine started," said Shigeru Omi, a former regional director for the World Health Organization.

Pretty obvious then that the crew members who were congregating with each other, walking from room to room and preparing food, were the vectors of the disease after quarantine.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

First a dreadful but necessary block quote:

"Obviously the quarantine hasn't worked, and this ship has now become a source of infection," said Dr Nathalie MacDermott, an outbreak expert at King's College London.

She said the exact mechanism of the virus' spread was unknown. Although scientists believe the disease is spread mostly by droplets - when people cough or sneeze - it's possible there are other ways of transmission.

"We need to understand how the quarantine measures on board were implemented, what the air filtration on board is like, how the cabins are connected and how waste products are disposed of," MacDermott said.

In a few words, the ship was more of an incubator than a medical sanctuary. One unmentioned thing is the nature of cruise ships which hard to control: cruise ships are love boats. It is likely that more than droplets were involved.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Yeah, Japanese "experts" no doubt. And said experts probably failed to take into account that initial doctors went in with just a paper mask, or that the initial group returned from Wuhan were allowed to Simply go home if they wanted to. They can blame it on the ship all they want, but the fact is containment failed because they didn't start taking the proper précautions until it was too late.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

As a layman it is obvious to me that food should have been prepared offsite and delivered by professionals in protective gear.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

many scientists say it was a failed experiment: 

I don't see how the quarantine of the Diamond Princess can be termed a failure. If the objective was to contain the infected onboard the ship so as not to let them all disembark freely and contaminate half of Yokohama, then it certainly was not a failure. But if the objective was to contain only those onboard who were infected, and keep the rest of the passengers uncontaminated then yes it was a failure but it was guaranteed to fail from the start because a ship is a closed system, and past incidents have shown how condusive passenger ships are to contamination. The moment the ship was quarantined it should have been expected that many, most possibly all passengers may become infected.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

everyone onboard were possibly infected already. the quarantine was mainly to prevent transmission of the virus from the passengers to the rest of the population, to contain it onboard until after the incubation period has passed.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I worked for 2 years at a cruise line company in operations. The areas where the passengers don’t go / can’t see are truly a haven for germs. And the heat and humidity levels are very high - I can imagine the germs from someone’s contaminated hand touching a doorknob or handrail can remain dangerous for many days.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

GWToday  09:00 am JST

To me it seems obvious that the crew & passengers were NOT QURARATINED, they were simply kept isolated from the mainland

Do you know what quarantine means?

quarantine verb [ T ]UK  /ˈkwɒrəntiːn/ US 

to keep an animal or person away from other animals or people to prevent them from spreading a disease:

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

"The quarantine was largely for passengers because crew members kept sharing double rooms and continued to serve guests by delivering food, letters, towels and amenities, and entering passenger cabins for cleaning. Crew members also ate in groups in a crew mess hall."

The above quote from elsewhere on JapanToday shows us the true failure of this quarantine!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

it's not an experiment. and i haven't seen anyone quoted in the article saying that.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

from The Maritime Executive

Shipboard quarantine "ineffective"

By quarantining Diamond Princess Japanese health officials intended to prevent the coronavirus infection from spreading to the Japanese public, and they also sought to halt its transfer from passenger to passenger. The quarantine did not achieve that second goal, according to the top infectious disease official at the U.S. National Institutes of Health.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ Ossan

to keep an animal or person away from other animals or people to prevent them from spreading a disease:

Exactly: an animal or person, not a group of....

Thus this is a completely failed quarantine.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The Miyaneya tv “wide show” is going to take up the Iwata Kentaro video starting now (Wednesday, Feb 19, 1:55 pm)

invalid CSRF

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Open MindedToday  01:57 pm JST

@ Ossan

*to keep an animal or person away from other animals or people to prevent them from spreading a disease:*

Exactly: an animal or person, not a group of....

Thus this is a completely failed quarantine.

A Quarantine can be for one or a group of animals or people.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The quarantine failed because there were no proper controls. It’s been controlled by bureaucrats with no knowledge of infectious disease, passing papers to people WITH the infection do that they can sign and pass it back, etc., because there are no separations of the infected with non-infected on the ship, and people are allowed to leave their cabins, touch the railings, etc. it is ineptitude the likes of which has Never been seen in terms of outbreak.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

OssanAmerica: “I don't see how the quarantine of the Diamond Princess can be termed a failure.”

well, then you should have just stopped at “I don’t see.”

6 ( +7 / -1 )

and later we discover that an American woman was infected and now all the passengers of that ship are traveling around the world. But nobody here is blaming these American companies and how they handled the emergency in their own ships. Convenient as usual.

The key word being “an” American whereas Japan incubated then released. IYou’re caught up on the nationality. Lay criticism where criticism is due, regardless whether US or Japan.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

but it was guaranteed to fail from the start because a ship is a closed system, and past incidents have shown how condusive passenger ships are to contamination. The moment the ship was quarantined it should have been expected that many, most possibly all passengers may become infected.

Well said, “it was guaranteed to fail from the start. That’s exactly it. It failed.

What you’re pushing, the objective of not infecting Japan proper, would only make sense if they had kept them quarantined permanently. And judging by the numbers on mainland, that overall objective is a failure too.

If the objective of the Titantic was to sell many transatlantic tickets, yeah it was successful too.

Look on the ministry’s homepage and it’s clear. The protocol the ministry is now implementing is 2.5 days. That is a change from 14 days to 2.5 days.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

how did it fail exactly? the quarantine was to manage infections and subsequent transmissions. what should have happened or what outcome will not be considered a failure?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Saving face is not more important than saving lives. This exactly what China is realising.

The CCP and the Japanese commentators here are the same in wanting to protect the image of their country and saving face.

If one argues that the cruise ship held the virus in check and bought time in preventing its spread, one must also argue, due to the increased total number of infected while on the ship. the number of the infected post their release will be eventually greater.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The braintrust is working overtime today, I see...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In any case, there will be a wonderful discount on the next voyage of the Diamond Princess, I imagine.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

quercetum: "The CCP and the Japanese commentators here are the same in wanting to protect the image of their country and saving face."

Exactly! Look a person who defends the management of this or the spread of this in Japan squarely in the face and state the facts, and watch them turn bright red and demand you talk about influenza in the US instead, demanding, as the Sankei Shimbun did, to know why Japan isn't focused on that instead of the spread of Corona here.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

it would have been so much easier to turn the ship away. i guess that would have counted as a win =)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Because the arrogant people in the government failed to listen to an expert such as...

Such as JT regular posters. You got it, Boomer !

In any case, there will be a wonderful discount on the next voyage of the Diamond Princess, I imagine.

I hope nobody will want to go, that the companies will have to reduce number of cruises... and giant-boat cruise industry ends soon. My reason is these "cities on the city" are the most polluting thing that exists.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I'm worried that people will leave the ship today, seemly healthy, but having picked up a few of the viruses yesterday. Unless they enter another quarantine, they could start new outbreaks.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Don´t know much about cruise ships, but don´t these things have a central aircon that pumps air into all the rooms, including those without windows?

If that is the case, these people are stuck inside a giant floating petri dish....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It seems experts are not pondering why. Experts seem to know. Bureaucrats, those in charge of the quarantine, are pondering why.

I think it is quite unusual for a Japanese doctor to make a video in which he openly criticised the bureaucracy and how they handled the situation. I hope it doesn't cost him his position

Thank you, Tom and others who posted the link. For those who have not watched the video, please do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtHYZkLuKcI

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Keeping passengers and crew on the ship prevented them from infecting those on land, but conditions on the ship did not prevent the spread of the disease on board. Are those on board now going to be released into Japan before a professionally supervised quarantine has been performed? That could be a disaster, not just for Japan, but for any countries to which infected individuals travel without control. It is time to let the scientists tell the government what to do.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I wish the Japanese media would pick up this story explaining the issue from various viewpoints. The report is very balanced.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1903041&playlistId=1.4816932&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@alyrustom

For the japanese citizens and the citizens of countries unable or unwilling to charter a plane home, quarantine the remaining group somewhere far away- like (for example) the Ogasawara islands.

It may be an example, but it's a terrible one. There's no virtue, in terms of infection control, in pointlessly adding extra hundreds of kilometres of water between the Japan mainland and the passengers from this ship.

Even if it was only a fraction of the passengers, transferring and transporting them all the way out to Ogasawara takes time; it's a minimum 24 hour trip by ship. There's no airfield, so access by air is only available by amphibious aircraft (very limited passenger capacity), or in serious emergencies (medical, for the local residents) by helicopter from Iwo Jima.

There is a population of around 2500 people, living on two islands. Many would justifiably be reluctant to play host to a bunch of potential disease carriers, and insulted at the notion that they can be more or less ignored for decades until Japan has a problem it wants to offload and decides that they are the solution.

But fair enough, your actual concept involved dumping people on uninhabited islands there, which apparently have "tons of space". However, there are usually very good reasons why islands are uninhabited, lack of natural water sources being one of the main ones. Difficulty of access is another, because islands with shorelines consisting wholly or mainly of cliffs are an obstacle to transferring people from (and back to) boats.

This already starts to look needlessly challenging, because it would take people to get materials and tools out there, prepare the area, and throw up structures, then the passengers would be brought in, and a support system established where they can be supplied with their needs and have medical staff on hand to deal with sickness and any other health issues or, given the terrain, accidents that might happen out there. Long before this even got to a planning stage, the question "why the hell are we trying to do it all the way out there" would have arisen.

If we could just click our fingers and (for god knows what reason) pretend that none of this was any problem; and pretend that it wouldn't have eaten up two weeks getting it organized; and pretend that the idea that a site could be completed in a couple of days (because, hey, you know companies that could do it!) isn't utterly ludicrous; and pretend that there really is tons of flat land available there just ready to be put to use, there's the crucial issue of environmental impact. The islands are a national park and a World Heritage site. There is no plan to develop the uninhabited ones, because the ecosystem is fragile in the extreme.

They can build makeshift shelters there in DAYS complete with showers and washlet toilets (those who have worked in construction here in Japan know what I'm talking about) with plenty of space for all including private little gardens for all.

Erm, yes. Not really a priority, if you can imagine that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

You don't need to be an expert, you don't need to be a scientist to figure out that the decision to quarantine a ship was the most stupid decision made by who knows who. That ship should be quarantined for at least a year before going to sail again. Of course I will not buy a cruise ticket in that ship.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Listen to what this doctor Pr Kentaro IWATA from Kobe who went on the cruise boat has to say about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=vtHYZkLuKcI

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This is not a quarantine, this is a confinement.

Japan has miserably failed in handling these sanitary refugees.

In any responsible country, heads would roll at a very high level.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ianToday  04:07 pm JST

how did it fail exactly? the quarantine was to manage infections and subsequent transmissions. what should have happened or what outcome will not be considered a failure?

When this ship arrived there was maybe a 10th of the people infected. Soon the whole boat people will be fully infected. I do not call that managing infection and subsequent transmission. Except if you consider these people have no human value. Do you?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Watch Kentaro Iwata

0 ( +2 / -2 )

tamanegi: "Watch Kentaro Iwata"

yes, and one of the smartest things the man did was release a video in both Japanese and English, so they can't shut him up now, and the denials in Japanese will only play to the local media while the reality spreads like a whole different kind of virus.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Kentaro Iwata is a hero to Japanese people and rest of the world.

He is risking his career and livelihood to speak the truth.

Japan needs people like him and more.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

ianToday  04:07 pm JST

how did it fail exactly? the quarantine was to manage infections and subsequent transmissions. what should have happened or what outcome will not be considered a failure?

When this ship arrived there was maybe a 10th of the people infected. Soon the whole boat people will be fully infected. I do not call that managing infection and subsequent transmission. Except if you consider these people have no human value. Do you?

So what would you have done? and what outcome will you not consider a failure?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It may be an example, but it's a terrible one. There's no virtue, in terms of infection control, in pointlessly adding extra hundreds of kilometres of water between the Japan mainland and the passengers from this ship.

Its somewhere where they can be quarantined. In your country, they have quarantines in the desert.

Erm, yes. Not really a priority, if you can imagine that.

I was making a point that they have the capability to build good quarantine facilities genius

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There is a population of around 2500 people, living on two islands. Many would justifiably be reluctant to play host to a bunch of potential disease carriers, and insulted at the notion that they can be more or less ignored for decades until Japan has a problem it wants to offload and decides that they are the solution.

there are many uninhabited islands there.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Because it was inediquate.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

there are many uninhabited islands there.

And the many challenges would include: hilly, rocky, thickly overgrown, difficult to access from the sea, etc etc. If some flat enough area can be found, it then has to be reasonably safe from flooding in the case of bad weather. The whole idea would have been sh'tcanned before the question of actual sites to build on even came up.

Its somewhere where they can be quarantined. 

No. The point is, it's somewhere where they can't be quarantined.

The uninhabited islands in that area are ecologically sensitive. Even if we were to disregard all existing environmental laws and standards, there is still be no way to justify trashing them simply to throw up a medical refugee camp that would be absurdly difficult to set up in the first place, and then absurdly difficult to service and supply.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

there are many uninhabited islands there.

And the many challenges would include: hilly, rocky, thickly overgrown, difficult to access from the sea, etc etc. If some flat enough area can be found, it then has to be reasonably safe from flooding in the case of bad weather. The whole idea would have been sh'tcanned before the question of actual sites to build on even came up. 

Its somewhere where they can be quarantined. 

No. The point is, it's somewhere where they can't be quarantined.

The uninhabited islands in that area are ecologically sensitive. Even if we were to disregard all existing environmental laws and standards, there is still be no way to justify trashing them simply to throw up a medical refugee camp that would be absurdly difficult to set up in the first place, and then absurdly difficult to service and supply.

If anything is in your hurry to troll me you forgot to read my first post which said for example the Ogasawara islands. And I only mention them because quite simply the people were on a cruise ship and Japan was worried about bringing them on shore to not infect other people so I mentioned it just as an example. Didn’t have to be there. There are plenty of ghost towns they can quarantine them in.

But if you want to be stuck on the islands be my guest.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

used them simply as an example Was never really my intention to say it had to be there. didn’t have to be.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The point of my post was that they should have been quarantined somewhere off the ship. And that having worked in the construction industry myself for a number of years I’m very well aware of the fact that they could have set up very good facilities for people to be quarantined in a very short period of time Without resorting to the debacle that was the diamond princess. That was the point of my post. Good night. I’ll see you tomorrow morning

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If anything is in your hurry to troll me you forgot to read my first post which said for example the Ogasawara islands

No I read that. And I wondered then, and still do, why you would think up the worst possible example to offer as an example.

Having worked in the construction industry myself for a number of years I’m very well aware of the fact that they could have set up very good facilities for people to be quarantined in a very short period of time

600 miles offshore? In a national park and UNESCO World Heritage site?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

No I read that. And I wondered then, and still do, why you would think up the worst possible example to offer as an example.

I don’t agree with your premise that It is a bad place at all to quarantine people. I think there are many islands that are uninhabited and could have quarantine them and they would have worked fine. But to keep going back-and-forth about whether or not the islands were the best place to quarantine completely misses the point of the post as you continually do. This is not about where to quarantine them the issue is do it off the ship

Having worked in the construction industry myself for a number of years I’m very well aware of the fact that they could have set up very good facilities for people to be quarantined in a very short period of time

600 miles offshore? In a national park and UNESCO World Heritage site?

Again you are incapable of understanding what the point is. The point is not about where the construction was going to take place. The point is that the Japanese are very good at erecting structures quickly and therefore could have done so to effect a good Quarantine. Doesn’t matter where the quarantine is except that it was off the ship. I don’t know why you can’t seem to understand that

1 ( +1 / -0 )

if that was put into effect how soon could the structures be built @Aly Rustom? and any recommendations also what should be done in the meantime?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

if that was put into effect how soon could the structures be built @Aly Rustom?

Depending on the size of the facility, but the largest contractor, Shimizu Kensetsu, could probably build a hospital as fast, if not faster than the Chinese are doing in Wuhan. They could build that facility in a matter of weeks. Japan has the knowhow, and their workers are really good at working together and man are they fast. So I estimate that given the resources and manpower, anyone of the giants (Shimizu, Konoike, Haseko, Obayashi) could probably build a full scale hospital in 2-3 of weeks.

and any recommendations also what should be done in the meantime?

The first thing they should have done (which they are starting to do now is) notify the respective embassies of the number of their citizens on the ship, negociate and allow the respective countries to charter their people back home to deal with their own citizens.

This leaves japan to deal with its citizens, whom could have been flown to a SDF military base for quarantine, while they build the facility(s) which would house the infected. Those found to be infected can be transferred to the newly built facility to be treated there.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Quite simply the cruise ship does not meet the ventilation requirements and isolation required for biosafety see

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level

The ship as a unit is a quarantine zone, but within the ship the passengers can eventually cross infect over time as the ventilation system and sewage system were not isolated.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Seems like quarantine not going to work, healthy people not going to die, so. . .

Remove all masks, let all people travel, make them healthy, no more eating bats and for their lungs no more smoking, give the people fresh air, reduce population and reduce pollution, fewer cars and coal burning and plastics burning.

Already most people live.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I suspect the virus is spreading by touching contaminated surfaces and through the skin. Secondly, it could be that the virus is able to survive on a surface for a relatively long time. These two factors alone would explain the "untraceable" cases.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Ponder? Ponder what? (floating petri dish). Not hard to figure out.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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