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Foot traffic still high despite state of emergency

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What a contrast to NZ (and ostensibly Australia) where there is nobody on the streets as a result of a sudden lockdown due to one COVID case.

6 ( +21 / -15 )

What emergency means? Closing restaurant bar and restaurant after 8 PM right.

Foot traffic still high despite state of emergency

Please doesn't care about that anymore, since there's no penalty.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

letsberealisticToday  06:39 am JST

What a contrast to NZ (and ostensibly Australia) where there is nobody on the streets as a result of a sudden lockdown due to one COVID case.

The images at the link below provide a much different image — thousands of police and protesters clashing across Australia. I think I would prefer be here in Japan.

Thousands march in anti-lockdown protests across Australia

Thousands have marched in capital cities across the country. In Melbourne alone, more than $1.1 million in fines will be handed down, six officers were hospitalised and 218 people were arrested.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/coronavirus-lockdown-photos-victoria-australia-and-around-the-world-usa-china-uk/4e4fc985-5fe5-4ff4-99d0-c8155c9a6d52

1 ( +17 / -16 )

People around the world have had enough as seen by protests both large and small, violent and semi-violent. It is time to move on.

-9 ( +20 / -29 )

More and more people are vaccinated and therefore they want to go out.

People want to get their benefit for taking their vaccine, including the side effects most of them struggled with.

And the benefit is not only to be protected to get serious sick, the benefit is also to go out and enjoy an almost normal life.

If you want the people to take the vaccine, you should not tell them to stay home. Because then, people will ask, what is the reason for taking the vaccine?

To get not seriously sick?

If I stay home the whole day, I also will not get serious sick.

So why should I take the vaccine?

To tell the people stay home and on the same side telling them take the vaccines, that is a complete contraire message.

If you want the people to take the vaccine, give them the benefit from the vaccine and let them go out.

-5 ( +21 / -26 )

KYODO: If 17 prefectures are of equal concern to Tokyo then, please publish the 21 -34 increased ‘foot-traffic’ or “pedestrian-traffic” locations so people can see the National impact.

*- “In the 17 prefectures where SOE and quasi (?) status were imposed on Fri, the no. of people increased at 21 of 34 observation spots, major train stations & commercial districts from a wk earlier as of 3pm. Sat.*

4 ( +6 / -2 )

oldman_13..

People around the world have had enough as seen by protests both large and small, violent and semi-violent. It is time to move on.

I understand the sentiment, but the problem is the number of "seriously sick" are filling the hospital beds "allocated" for this purpose. Without the SOE measures, this situation would soon overwhelm the health service and preventable deaths would result. How many? and is this a price worth paying?

3 ( +17 / -14 )

I wish Japan has a leader like New Zealand prime-minister - she would make a difference in this alarming situation in a matter of few months. Really effective measures rather than quasi-tatemae and affirmations of daijobu when things culd hardly be worse after 18 months since COVID arrived in the country.

Although no NZ in their right mind would swap for any of Japan’s high-profile «problem solvers»...

Excuse me my fantasies - well, if Japanese officials allow themselves to say aloud fantasies like 1 million of vaccine shots a day (?) without any consequences for their careers when they miserably fail to deliver...

letsberealisticToday  06:39 am JST

What a contrast to NZ (and ostensibly Australia) where there is nobody on the streets as a result of a sudden lockdown due to one COVID case.

1 ( +20 / -19 )

Foot traffic is high I’m sure as it’s the weekend, nice weather and no sense of crisis in Japan. With the Paralympics about to start, there will be even more foot traffic I’m sure. Wait till schools and universities start September and there will be even more foot traffic. It’s inevitable - because the government can’t and won’t do anything of real substance to reduce it.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

This will continue until the Gov't impliments REAL measures.

6 ( +18 / -12 )

Does anyone know of data on what percent of new infections are (1) partially and (2) fully vaccinated?

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

KYODO: Why not also publish the suspected age demographics at each of these locations like you do with the daily infection numbers?

After 3pm Saturdays, call it what it is: “CUSTOMER” traffic. These are NOT commuters to and from the trains. Foot traffic reads like people are mall walking, window shopping & browsing around at festivals.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Asiaman7Today  06:59 am JST

letsberealisticToday  06:39 am JST

What a contrast to NZ (and ostensibly Australia) where there is nobody on the streets as a result of a sudden lockdown due to one COVID case.

The images at the link below provide a much different image — thousands of police and protesters clashing across Australia. I think I would prefer be here in Japan.

Thousands march in anti-lockdown protests across Australia

Thousands have marched in capital cities across the country. In Melbourne alone, more than $1.1 million in fines will be handed down, six officers were hospitalised and 218 people were arrested.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/coronavirus-lockdown-photos-victoria-australia-and-around-the-world-usa-china-uk/4e4fc985-5fe5-4ff4-99d0-c8155c9a6d52

You are right, Australia has an anti-establishment streak.

Given the choice, I'd choose NZ since they are saving lives and overall controlling the virus.

-2 ( +13 / -15 )

Back on topic please.

The government isn't listening to the public's wish to can the Paralympics, nor the Olympics, so why should people listen to anything the hypocrites say.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

I have seen a shift towards complacency in the last 6 months on Japan Today forum.

A lot of people now have the attitude of "whatever, we want to be free to live our lives and forget about the virus" - that is a very dangerous attitude and has already cost hundreds of lives. It's easy to do when you and your family and friends have not (yet) been effective.

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

Stop living so case numbers on TV can go down!

Let me guess, you are fully vaccinated too!

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Sorry, if the government doesn't think it's dangerous for me to get crammed into a train and work close quarters with a dozen other people, then I don't think it's dangerous to walk around the city on my few precious days off.

35 ( +37 / -2 )

Pray tell, let's see the numbers on the daily commuter trains? They are virtual petri dishes of viruses and lord knows what other diseases, but no one in government ever says a thing about them!

Stop the trains, and I guarantee you foot-traffic will decrease!

14 ( +21 / -7 )

40% of Tokyo residents have been injected, where is the benefit?

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

For what possible reason would you downvote my question asking about if there is known data on proportion of new infections which have been vaccinated? Please enlighten me.

-15 ( +8 / -23 )

I wonder if the primary difference between Japan and certain western countries is simply a matter of perspective.

In certain western countries, people ignore government requests and advice (get vaccinated and wear a mask, stay home, don't gather unmasked in large spaces, etc.) because they have a colossal ego and/or are sociopaths: "I wanna go out" "I have rightzzzzzz" "The Man ain't gonna stop me!" "It's fine to use horse wormer for Covid, it says so on Facebook", etc.

In Japan it seems more out of a sense of nihilistic apathy coupled with the fact that the government can't legally (yet) do anything than issue declarations and ask people to comply.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Why should people listen to the gov??

Holding a massive sporting event in a major pandemic and their own MPs going to the hostess bars and steak houses & boozing it up etc.

Hypocrites!

24 ( +26 / -2 )

No lockdown and people are surprised foot traffic is high? Am I missing something here?

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Yubaru

Stopping the trains is impossible and I really don't know why people even suggest it. I could name 20 or 30 occupations where it is essential for staff to be on site and they need trains to get there. How do you expect hospital staff to go to work, emergency workers, employees in food production, delivery, logistics, convenience stores and supermarkets, airports, cargo ship terminals, delivery personnel, etc, etc.

We need trains

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Battle against Corona 19 will not come to an end soon. It would take years from now. If several times of lock downs can solve the problem, it is good but it is unlikely. Under such situation, we have to live with Corona and people's daily activities have to be allowed with cautions. We have to get used to it.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@jder makes a very valid point. The government is sending mixed messages by allowing crowded trains but not crowded streets. People simply don't trust the information from the government anymore. That is a major problem and unfortunate because there is a real danger of getting Covid in Japan if you are unvaccinated, and those who are vaccinated and not practicing safe practices. I need to check the foreign news media and sites but the majority of the population here does not speak English so their knowledge of Covid is very restricted.

Sorry, if the government doesn't think it's dangerous for me to get crammed into a train and work close quarters with a dozen other people, then I don't think it's dangerous to walk around the city on my few precious days off.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Starbucks are packed in the daytime hours, but people can't drink alcohol after 8pm. I went to a classical music concert in Nishinomiya. Everyone was cramped together in the lower deck. They did not utilize the back rows and upper decks. I was elbow to elbow with people. I left in 5 minutes. I was invited by members of a religious group in Japan who tell their members not to get vaccinated. Some of them were in attendance. For their sake, I hope they are making the right choice.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

JohnToday  07:58 am JST

40% of Tokyo residents have been injected, where is the benefit?

From The Atlantic:

Delta could potentially spread from vaccinated people too—a point of recent confusion. The CDC has estimated that Delta-infected people build up similar levels of virus in their nose regardless of vaccination status. But another study from Singapore showed that although viral loads are initially comparable, they fall more quickly in vaccinated people. That makes sense: The immune defenses induced by the vaccines circulate around the body and need time to recognize a virus intruding into the nose. Once that happens, “they can control it very quickly,” Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, told me. “The same amount of virus might be there at the beginning, but it can’t replicate in the airways and lungs.” And because vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected in the first place, they are also much less likely to transmit Delta than unvaccinated people, contrary to what some media outlets have claimed.

“How the Pandemic Now Ends,” 12 August 2021, https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/delta-has-changed-pandemic-endgame/619726/

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

And why is the government surprised no one is listening.

Ask any parent if the "do as I say, not as I do" works for any length of time!?

The government says stay home, asks companies to have their employees work from home, tells the population not to have large gatherings or festivals, etc...

But the government isn't teleworking, in my ward trying to get anything done without having to go to the city office and sit around waiting while some city worker prints an in inordinate amount of papers, slips little receipts for the ¥300 charge for that silly paper that is totally unnecessary.

Then it holds a two part international event with 100,000 participants from Athletes to politicians, etc ..

Not to mention all the other scandals of dinner parties, drinking parties that lead to covid infections within government departments.

Add in low testing giving the impression that only a few thousand a day are catching covid in a city/prefecture of 14 million and the official policy of saying only a few of those need hospitalisation and what do you end up with?

A population that doesn't see anything serious going on because big it really was bad logically there would have been no Olympics certainly no Paralympics.

Logically the government offices would be closed for the most part and the worker teleworking ( like my sister a government worker in Canada is doing),

Logically we would be seeing tens of thousands of cases in 14 million population Tokyo and people would be in hospital not at home and told to go to some silly "oxigen station" if they need an oxigen boost.

The contradictions are so confusing for the average Yoko and Taro, that they end up tuning out and go about their daily lives unsure what to think anymore!

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Fuji rock festival going full steam ahead since Fri 19 Aug till today

See the massive crowds in this yahoo news article at fuji rock

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/pickup/6402330

You also have disney, universal studio etc still open for business - govt is pro business & dont care about public health

Only targeting izakayas is bad - if not full lockdown at a minimum govt can ask such places like universal studios, disney, fuji rock to close - if they are really serious about reducing the foot traffic???

20 ( +22 / -2 )

O'BrienToday  08:11 am JST

In Japan it seems more out of a sense of nihilistic apathy coupled with the fact that the government can't legally (yet) do anything than issue declarations and ask people to comply

Actually most Japanese constitutional experts say this is false.

There really isn't anything stopping the government from imposing a lockdown or thought measures.

This was something the LDP has tossed around as an attempted to get the 2 houses and the people to vote for opening up the constitution for revision.

Once open the government can make any changes it wants not just the one it claims is needed to permit lockdowns, but it's real goal changing article 9.

Even the Japan communist party lawyer have said there is no need to change the construction the power to enforce more serious closures even a lockdown is available as is.

The LDP sees this as another chance to open the constitution to make changes giving it the best chance in years to change or remove article 9.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Monty - More and more people are vaccinated and therefore they want to go out.

The vaccine does not stop the spread of the virus. It only means you are less likely to end up in the ICU on a respirator. Those who are vaccinated have got consider those who are not vaccinated.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

People around the world have had enough as seen by protests both large and small, violent and semi-violent. It is time to move on.

"I'm tired of Covid. Lets just pretend it's no longer an issue."

Sorry. Im pretty sure wishing viruses away because "youve had enough" of them does not work.

Further, those unmasked, moronic protesters you mention are likely to be spreading the virus around - thus extending the lockdowns and restrictions.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

genkigaijingirl 07:18 am JST

Excuse me my fantasies - well, if Japanese officials allow themselves to say aloud fantasies like 1 million of vaccine shots a day (?) without any consequences for their careers when they miserably fail to deliver...

It’s actually been more like 1.4 million doses a day over the past two months. From the 31-million-dose total on 21 June to 115 million on 20 August.

https://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/content/vaccination_data5.xlsx

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

considering all the steps taken by the government from day one and the resulting low severe cases/ deaths from day one, one could be forgiven for thinking that the government doesn’t take this seriously because it isn’t.

One could be forgiven for thinking that their response was simply calculated superficial posturing to show that some action was taken while at the same time minimizing the negative effect it has on the economy.

I mean, if covid were as dangerous as much as all the paranoid doomsday pushers say it is, wouldn’t most of Japan’s population be dead already? Or at least more than a fraction of 1% of the population???

i’m not surprised of the high foot traffic and neither is the government. And neither should you be.

People have good reason to be out pounding the pavement.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

The number of COVID-19 cases with severe symptoms rose to 1,888 cases across the country on Saturday, up 72 from Friday and hitting record highs for the ninth straight day.

I'd just like to ask all the naysayers and apathetic people on here the following:

What do these numbers have to rise to before you acknowledge there is a problem here - 2,000? 5,000? 10,000?

Please bear in mind that hospitals in many prefectures are already reportedly at capacity and turning people away.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

The government's subcommittee on the coronavirus response has called for reducing traffic volumes of people in the nation's capital by half compared with those in the first half of July.

without getting more people to WFH and students to SFH, just how do they intend to do that?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If the headline were…

” foot traffic still high despite the high number of severe cases and deaths “

… I’d take it more seriously. Buuuuuuut it’s not that, is…

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The government's subcommittee on the coronavirus response has called for reducing traffic volumes of people in the nation's capital by half compared with those in the first half of July.

However, the turnout of people on major streets in Tokyo's Ginza and Shibuya districts on Saturday fell just modestly from levels on July 10.

Comedy gold from Japan's Pravda. It was widely reported in the vernacular media that Suga requested Keidanren to ask its members to implement a work from home policy. Keidanren said it would urge its members to do so but couldn't make any promises. The end.

People forced to ride the tin tubes to work in central Tokyo every day, while international sports events are being held around them won't stop going to Ginza for a walk or shopping at the weekend (even though they should).

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Covid is now part of our lives and we must learn to live with it. Some of us have realized this basic fact and others are struggling with it. The vaccine is the only viable option and we should be pressuring the government to either get their act together and supply it or allow private organizations to supply it….which has already happened and been quite successful in Japan. Lockdowns will not happen. You cannot ask the public to stay inside when you just held the world’s greatest sports festival. The results of locking down would be worse than Covid itself and worse for a far greater number of people. The government is not going to receive any more power as they completely botched this emergency and if given more power it will likely use and abuse it. If hospitals were really at capacity then Japan would have set up temporary ones. The occurrence of people being turned away from hospitals in Japan was happening long before Covid and usually only happens around the Tokyo area which is what happens when nearly 20% of a population lives in a small area so the claim that Covid is overburdening the health system is a bit of a red herring. More people die from suicide every year than have died from Covid since the pandemic began. A significant number us seem to suffer from “heiwa bokke” which is roughly means “weakness from an excess of prosperity” and have come to believe that Life should be free of risk and that every crisis has a set solution. They are wrong,

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Does anyone know of data on what percent of new infections are (1) partially and (2) fully vaccinated?

You are supposed to automatically assume those with the infection are unvaccinated and/or bad people.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@sam

while I don’t agree with 100% of everything that you said, I agree wholeheartedly with your final 2 sentences.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Does anyone know of data on what percent of new infections are (1) partially and (2) fully vaccinated?

You are supposed to automatically assume those with the infection are unvaccinated and/or bad people.

this is why those percentages will never be revealed

can you imagine though, if they were!?!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Kechi. I appreciate that. Fair enough!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The results of locking down would be worse than Covid itself and worse for a far greater number of people.

Never and not by any standard. Lockdowns save lives. Of that, there is no argument.

As I said, this type of complacency means death to people, and it could be you or your loved ones, so be careful what you wish for.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

For those people saying you don't want a lockdown ask yourself whether you are okay with more people dying. Do you care that your (and others) desire to not lockdown will kill people? If you lack a sense of compassion for other human beings, well, so be it. I care and don't want anyone to die a horrible deaths - I can deal with lockdowns.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

If you want the people to take the vaccine, you should not tell them to stay home. Because then, people will ask, what is the reason for taking the vaccine?

Frst, taking the vaccine doesn't mean you're not going to get infected, nor does it mean you won't get sick, nor does it mean you won't be hospitalized, nor does it mean you won't die. It reduces risk but does not eliminate it. Incase you're unaware, places like Israel and the UK have already reported that a sizable number of breakthrough infections had occurred from the delta variant. The US CDC has found that vaccinated people can have just as many viral particles in their noses as those who are unvaccinated.

Why are people told to get the vaccine? Well simply put, because the government knows how irresponsible most citizens are. Even in the best of times basic hygiene is often lacking. People who touch public surfaces and then touch food and/or touch their eyes or mouth without ever washing hands. People who go to the toilet, especially public toilets, and then either fail to wash their hands or literally use plain water to "clean them" afterwards. People who go out when they are sick. People who eat food that falls on the floor. People who constantly touch their mouth and then touch public surfaces. I could list tons of things. Now factor in a highly contagious novel virus that has caused a GLOBAL pandemic.

People can't even follow elementary guidelines like NOT crowding, NOT gathering in large groups, NOT standing on top of the next person, WEARING a mask/wearing it correctly, etc. So what logical choice does a government have to reduce the problem? Push vaccines like there is no tomorrow.

The goal of telling people to get vaccinated is that if enough people are, the medical system won't be on the verge of collapse at any given time and facilities can thus handle the small number of serious cases that arrive. When the medical system is NOT on the verge of collapse, then it doesn't matter if people are going out and living life as per normal.

These vaccines will not eliminate the potential for new variants of the novel coronavirus to occur. As long as the virus continues to circulate and find living organisms by which it can reproduce, mutations can and will occur. Even if the vaccines were 100% effective in 100% of the population, the simple fact is that 100% of the world isn't getting simultaneously vaccinated. This virus will continue to be a plague for the coming future, sorry to say.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

There must be hundreds of thousands of cases across Japan.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

People would be gone from the streets if a 'lockdown' like the one in April 2020 was in place, i.e. department stores/shops all closed throughout the day. Loads of people still roaming Shinjuku, Omotesando, Shibuya. How do I know this? Yup, you're right.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

There is some good news from India, their government-approved first DNA vaccine!

Let us hope it will be soon accessible in Japan as well!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57774294

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

People wearing masks and traveling in silence on a train, even in rush hour are not at a major risk of getting infected. Walking in the street is also fairly low risk. The problem with "foot traffic" is that those people are on their way to bars, restaurants and Karaoke rooms where masks will be off and talking in confined spaces will produce the aerosol particles passing on the infection.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

letsberealisticToday  10:48 am JST

For those people saying you don't want a lockdown ask yourself whether you are okay with more people dying. Do you care that your (and others) desire to not lockdown will kill people? If you lack a sense of compassion for other human beings, well, so be it. I care and don't want anyone to die a horrible deaths - I can deal with lockdowns

Now understand this before.

I lost 3 family members to covid, so I take the danger very seriously.

If you can give a 100% logical way that it can be done in a place like greater Tokyo with 35~39 million people then fine I will say go ahead.

But you can't.

This is not tiny little population New Zealand, it is not Sydney 5 million or even NSW 8 million it is 39 million greater Tokyo/Kanto.

There is no $ 750 au, a week provided by the government like in NSW, if you are actually in Japan how much was provided last time?

¥100,000 one time. My business after a long complicated process and long wait (10 months) got a grand total of ¥1 million, can you run a business on that let alone live on it?

Sure the government can sort of force a lockdown though the legal aspects get tricky, but it can for any reason real or not order businesses to close, though forcing people to remain in their homes may be another matter.

But unless you are rich and want to pay my living expenses, and that of my working class neighbours in Shitamachi Tokyo few if any can telework ( hard to build homes, repair pipes, roads cook and sell Ramen, install tatami, etc... From your home computer).

So are you willing to share you income with me and my manual labour friends?

We know the Tokyo government, national government and cities aren't going to pay us to stay home and do nothing.

So all those saying lockdown, start a go fund me fill it up with your money (AKA put your money where your mouth is) and when you have enough in the fund to pay all of us that will need it during a lockdown, then go to the government let them know and maybe by 2035 you will have your lockdown.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

I do wish people would not compare one country to another. Its like comparing a banana juice to a cat. I say cat because one scientist actually proved that cats do not act like a solid but as a liquid. I wish the shills would go as well but they have a job to do and they do it very well.

However those real people who are frustrated and use this place for catharsis I think it is time you went out into the real world and pushed a bit for a better Japan. My own personal way to push is to annoy the .... out of the old men who like to hang around doing pointless jobs but think they are somehow important. It really give me a good sense of the old time get-back-at-the-boss type of fun.

Today on my way home from shopping I notices a pile of broken glass on the pavement. An obvious hazard in a place of no-ones responsibility. However as the old-man of the bike park was hiding having a sneaky snooze I woke him up and asked if he had a dust pan and brush. He did. I then pointed to the broken glass and told him it looked very dangerours and he needed to clean it up. He was not amused at having to do something that he was not responsibly for. He was not amused he was told to do something by a lower form of human. But he was oblidged and therefore stuffed.

Massively petty of me but it cheared me up no end.

SO go out. FIND a petty moment and give those OLD LAZY MEN a good emotional kicking.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

AntiquesavingToday  11:39 am JST

> If you can give a 100% logical way that it can be done in a place like greater Tokyo with 35~39 million people then fine I will say go ahead.

But you can't.

This is not tiny little population New Zealand, it is not Sydney 5 million or even NSW 8 million it is 39 million greater Tokyo/Kanto.

Explain to me how the size of a population affects the effectiveness of lockdown? Whether it's Auckland or Tokyo you have many people living, travelling and working together in close proximity and able to spread a virus - what's the difference?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

In awful news for the anti vaxxers, the Pfizer vaccine will be the first to be fully approved in the US tomorrow. They will no longer be able to use the already incorrect term ‘experimental’. Since they constantly use the FDA as their reference even though it doesn’t mean a thing in Japan, this takes away more of their self awarded credibility.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

But unless you are rich and want to pay my living expenses, and that of my working class neighbours in Shitamachi Tokyo few if any can telework ( hard to build homes, repair pipes, roads cook and sell Ramen, install tatami, etc... From your home computer).

So are you willing to share you income with me and my manual labour friends?

That money before lives argument again.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

letsberealisticToday  12:09 pm JST

AntiquesavingToday  11:39 am JST

If you can give a 100% logical way that it can be done in a place like greater Tokyo with 35~39 million people then fine I will say go ahead.*

But you can't.

This is not tiny little population New Zealand, it is not Sydney 5 million or even NSW 8 million it is 39 million greater Tokyo/Kanto.

Explain to me how the size of a population affects the effectiveness of lockdown? Whether it's Auckland or Tokyo you have many people living, travelling and working together in close proximity and able to spread a virus - what's the difference?

So basically you have no answer just deflection.

Ok got it.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

KenchiToday  11:06 am JST

@letsberealistic

Let’s be realistic, lockdowns also take lives. Physically, psychologically, economically and metaphorically.

Do you deny that? Are you one of them deniers?

Are those lives not important to you? Do you not care for those lives? Are you OK with those deaths? Do you like a sense of compassion for that?

I guess so, eh. Well, so be it I guess…

sounds ridiculous doesn’t it… I truly wish you could just hear yourself.

Silly old well debunked argument - there is no comparison. Nearly 5 million people have died from COVID, you seriously think 5 million are going to die because of a lockdown? Use your noggin

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Japanese government begs people to stay home ( but no rules) with rising record covid numbers ( despite minimal testing) with hospital covid allocated beds full and people are dying at home (18 in Tokyo since July) as cannot get in to hospital, but except for some bars and restaurants being closed early, nothing is really done. Disneyland open , cinemas open, department stores open, gyms open, shopping centers open. playgrounds and parks open . workplaces open still expecting staff to come to work, International Olympics happening, other sporting events ( with spectators) going on, , Fuji Music Festival, happening, schools opening soon after summer vacation ( in which many people travelled all over the country) followed by universities next month

And then the government expresses incredulity as to why foot traffic not reducing, and of course blames people for the new cases and not listening!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Look I would be all in favour of a lockdown if anyone here can give a logic method of doing it ( skip any legal/constitution problems).

Explain how it would work, who is going to pay for it and how will those not working pay their bills, rent, etc ..

Let me remind you of a few things.

The bulk of income tax is paid to municipalities not prefecture or the national government ( it get the sales tax) so who and how will us that cannot work remotely on a computer get money and from where?

71% of the Japanese workforce are in the service industry that includes a large percentage of blue-collar workers (30% of the total Japanese workforce).

You sit at home telling us about your telework as if we can all do that but then you order from Amazon, Uber, etc..

Who do you think delivers those orders? Who do you think processes the packages in the warehouses? Who do you think is making that food you ordered from Uber? Who is stoking the supermarket shelves? Delivering the produce? Who is making sure your water, gas, electricity keeps flowing?

You know all those shops, those fancy and not so fancy Caffes and restaurants, you frequented before covid! Who was serving you?

Who did and are doing those jobs? Elves, gremlins?

Sometimes I wonder how people can get so detached from reality sitting in their own little Ivory tower.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

For those people saying you don't want a lockdown ask yourself whether you are okay with more people dying. Do you care that your (and others) desire to not lockdown will kill people? 

Yes and Yes.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

> AntiquesavingToday  12:12 pm JST

letsberealisticToday  12:09 pm JST

AntiquesavingToday  11:39 am JST

*If you can give a 100% logical way that it can be done in a place like greater Tokyo with 35~39 million people then fine I will say go ahead.**

But you can't.

This is not tiny little population New Zealand, it is not Sydney 5 million or even NSW 8 million it is 39 million greater Tokyo/Kanto.

Explain to me how the size of a population affects the effectiveness of lockdown? Whether it's Auckland or Tokyo you have many people living, travelling and working together in close proximity and able to spread a virus - what's the difference?

So basically you have no answer just deflection.

Ok got it.

Projection - you didn't answer my question = deflection.

Lockdowns can work anywhere no matter how many people there are if there is a decisive well-organised govt, a compliant and caring community and the right tools and systems set up, as is the case in NZ.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

@letberealistic

The size and more importantly the density of an area does make a difference because of exponential growth. An infected person needs to pass on a virus and therefore needs to meet good hosts. Those hosts then pass it on.

If a lockdown was 100% and every person obeyed and every person who was ill was found out before they could pass it on then great. That has not happened in any lockdown and the bigger and denser the population the worse it gets.

You then need to see why people do not obey. Mostly it is economic and the bigger and denser the populatioin the more people have an economic reason to dis-obey.

Other reasons for no obeying are cultural, type of force used, type of penalty given, type of assistance given and so on.

As said comparing one country to another is pointless and it is obvious from all the data around the world that when the virus hits a city of dense populatioins it has a much easier time of spreading. Machester, London, Liverpool all had worse problems than places like Kent. Even though Kent provided the world with an improved version of the virus. Even if you dig down in London you find some areas worse than others. I would speculate that this was because of multi-generational living arrangements in those areas. Which is essentially a proxy for something that can not be mentioned.

And this leads to the difference in demographics of different countries which also make a difference on the ability and will of people to obey lock-downs.

Personally I am fully against lock-downs. Not because they work but because they have a hidden long-term cost that so far has little to no media attention. Most life-year-lost will happen because of this action but those number will be over a couple of generations. Lack of money and education opportunities by closed schools and loss of earnings by parents have a life long health cost. That is why in the UK the life expectancy of the rich and poor can be as much fo 20 years different.

What lock-downs are doing is giving an 80 year old an extra six months of life and taking five years plus off the 25 year olds. It is a very, very, very slow car crash. A car crash that is happening and can be avoided but only if it is acknowledged as a problem. Not something most media and politicians do because that would mean they were responsible to do something about it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

anon99999Today  12:17 pm JST

Japanese government begs people to stay home ( but no rules) with rising record covid numbers ( despite minimal testing) with hospital covid allocated beds full and people are dying at home (18 in Tokyo since July) as cannot get in to hospital, but except for some bars and restaurants being closed early, nothing is really done. Disneyland open , cinemas open, department stores open, gyms open, shopping centers open. playgrounds and parks open . workplaces open still expecting staff to come to work, International Olympics happening, other sporting events ( with spectators) going on, , Fuji Music Festival, happening

Some simple questions:

Is the government paying these places to remain closed?

Is the government going to pay all these service industry and manual labourers salaries if the companies do close?

Unless the answer to both these questions is YES then there is no point in talking about it because people need to pay bills and eat.

In my youth I did a lot of crazy jobs including being a "suicide jockey" ( someone that drives a truck full of high explosives on poorly maintained road to a large giant hydroelectric dam site).

I didn't it for some quick well paid money and a very short time.

Most of the other drivers did it because in that Northern Canadian community there were no other solid jobs that would insure regular pay so their families had food and a home. ( And yes I do know some that it ended badly for hence the name suicide jockey).

These people are not stupid not poorly informed, they just don't have the luxury of being able to work from home or not work and live of savings for a few months.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

letsberealisticToday  12:42 pm JST

Lockdowns can work anywhere no matter how many people there are if there is a decisive well-organised govt, a compliant and caring community and the right tools and systems set up, as is the case in NZ

Again still avoided the question or giving an answer on how!

But I will point out a very simple flaw in your usual reply.

a compliant and caring community and the right tools and systems set up, as is the case in NZ

you do realise organising a small number of people vs a greatly larger number is a very different thing.

Organise a dinner for 7 then try organising a dinner for 39.

Then say it is no different, because basically NZ is the 7 people dinner Tokyo metropolitan is the 39 guest dinner.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

In awful news for the anti vaxxers, the Pfizer vaccine will be the first to be fully approved in the US tomorrow. They will no longer be able to use the already incorrect term ‘experimental’.

Is it awful news for "antivaxxers" or is it really just a way for those unfamiliar with medical product development to feel "comforted" that the Pfizer vaccine is "safe"? It changes nothing, because the vaccine was given a rubber stamp at the end of last year and has been on the market accordingly.

I hate to break it to you, but it's literally impossible to know how "safe" the vaccines are without time travel. You can not predict what kinds of side effects will or will not occur in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years. In fact the risk of delayed-onset side effects is likely to become significantly higher as booster shots are pushed. What happens when people receive injections twice a year, indefinitely? Does anyone know? Does Pfizer know? Does the CDC know? Does the FDA know? No one knows because no one can predict the future.

If you want a great example of what I'm talking about, look at DDT, a product that was originally believed to be safe:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT

It really bothers me that people can claim to "believe in science" when they are ignorant of what standard medical product development timelines look like and criticize or mock those with legitimate questions. Science is literally the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, and the unrelenting need to continue to check, recheck, prove, and disprove. All those who can't imagine a vaccine having unintended side effects in the future are really just seeing what they want to for piece of mind or convenience.

Let's imagine a woman wants to get pregnant in the next 6 months. She wants to get vaccinated, but is unsure of what kind of effect it may have on her fetus. She is also worried about booster shots that would be given during the pregnancy. She wants to have more information about the risks, and the long-term potential risks. Is she an "anti-vaxxer"? Is she "anti-science"? Should she be punished for wanting information? Should she be punished for asking legitimate questions?

We're not talking about the vaccines for measles or polio or tetanus or any other products discovered last century which have been proven safe decade after decade after decade. Products that have untold pages of literature published about their safety. We're talking about vaccines that aren't even a YEAR old, and yet some members of the general public believe themselves to be experts in pharmaceutical sciences because...they had a vaccine and feel fine. Do you understand how absurdly ignorant this mindset really is? Are YOU a medical doctor? Are YOU qualified to dictate what kind of medical advice an expecting mother or mother-to-be should be following? No. You are just someone looking for a quick fix to a large problem and could care less what kind of potential issues it may cause for anyone else.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Lockdown or not-

What the gov needs to do is shut the schools and push for more online classes. Another thing some schools did last year was have the teachers come in, record the lessons, and then send them to the students. Personally, I wish I had that option growing up. I have a short attention span and staying at home and watching a lecture over and over again would have helped me learn the material better than hearing it ONCE in the classroom. Developing an online learning/ learning from home/ home schooling system is essential in this day and age.

Add to that those that CAN work from home doing so, and you have SOME chance at the very least at controlling the spread.

Antiquesaving brings up some EXCELLENT points.

Amazon, Uber, etc..

Who do you think delivers those orders? Who do you think processes the packages in the warehouses? Who do you think is making that food you ordered from Uber? Who is stoking the supermarket shelves? Delivering the produce? Who is making sure your water, gas, electricity keeps flowing?

Exactly. Add to those the supermarket and convenience store staff. And of course people in health care.

All the above jobs are what should be deemed as essential workers. They cannot work from home and society cannot function without them. Having worked in delivery, I know how tough of a job it is. These essential workers must continue to operate during the pandemic, but we MUST protect them by making sure that those who can work from home do. These essential workers must be given priority in social services and their salaries MUST be increased to a livable wage. Those people are out there literally risking their lives should be more appreciated.

You know all those shops, those fancy and not so fancy Caffes and restaurants, you frequented before covid! Who was serving you?

I have friends who owned small izakayas and others who were tenchos in large izakaya chains. I'm not going to go into details as to how much suffering they are going through. But suffice it to say that they are having a hard time. Unfortunately, they are classified as non essential workers, as society can function without restaurants and bars- as awful as that sounds. However, those people are still human beings and were taxpayers before the pandemic hit. They should have rights too. It is time for non essential workers and business owners to get back a little from what they have put in with regards to taxes and hard work. Now that they have fallen on hard times, the government SHOULD support them by giving them a social security net. At least 100,00 or 200,000 yen a month. Yes its not much, but AT LEAST they can provide that.

I believe that there are ways to do this, but as anon said:

Japanese government begs people to stay home ( but no rules) with rising record covid numbers ( despite minimal testing) with hospital covid allocated beds full and people are dying at home (18 in Tokyo since July) as cannot get in to hospital, but except for some bars and restaurants being closed early, nothing is really done. Disneyland open , cinemas open, department stores open, gyms open, shopping centers open. playgrounds and parks open . workplaces open still expecting staff to come to work, International Olympics happening, other sporting events ( with spectators) going on, , Fuji Music Festival, happening, schools opening soon after summer vacation ( in which many people travelled all over the country) followed by universities next month

And then the government expresses incredulity as to why foot traffic not reducing, and of course blames people for the new cases and not listening!

The Japanese gov has shown ZERO leadership and lack of responsible decision making during this pandemic, and that is the crux of the problem. Lockdown or not, without proper leadership, which we will never get with the LDP, we are up the sewage creek with no paddle.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

It really bothers me that people can claim to "believe in science" when they are ignorant of what standard medical product development timelines look like and criticize or mock those with legitimate questions. Science is literally the pursuit of knowledge and understanding,

And it bothers me people that are still stuck in the 1970s.

"Developed time" all anti vaxxers go on about is "it normally takes 10 years or more". Sure if this was 1970 or even 1980.

Back then a fax machine was state of the art technology. A super computer was about as powerful as many desktops are today.

Sharing scientific data took months if not years.

Today scientists can share data instantly they a teleconference at any time, they can review information and categorise results on seconds, cross reference data with the click of a mouse.

We are 2021 not 1970 just look at your smartphone you are probably using to post here.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

@Antiquesaving

And you are you willing to pay the living expense of everyone which loose job and/or income throught these lengthy SOE and quasi SOE which are put one after another with no hope for an end in sight ? Are you willing to pay for all the people which would be affected by covid, loosing customers, job, income, ability to work, family members, ... ?

It goes both way. And is as stupid both way.

Let's remember how things went last year : government requesting left and right people not going out, shop to close and so on without any compensation whatsoever because it was just request, until enough pressure was put on it to force them issue a state of emergency and start giving money, then several/some landowner decided to postpone rent, several/some local business association gave support, ... . Then most in major district accepted to close. After around one month, the situation as improved and then business starting to be able to resume activities and make money again. If government implement lockdown it obviously will have to pay for the people which actually can not work and business losing money.

I do not get what you imagine a lockdown is. Lot of people continue to work during lockdown, the one able to work at home, work at home. The one having to work on site continue to go on site, at least for the one doing needed job which involve a big bunch of the people you claim to be defending the job. Only a fraction will end up out of job and be compensated by government. If the government refuse to compensate it is not the lockdown which is to blame it is the government. That is not their money, it is ours, thus they have to use it for our good that involve making sure we do not starve &co in this kind of situation.

Regarding density : Tokyo cities meaning the ward it is around 15.000 by km2, it does not even reach the 69 higher city density level in which is included cities from countries which actually implemented lockdown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_proper_by_population_density

I am tired of these antilockdowners claiming to be defending the widow and the orphan. If you are antilockdown for your a., it is your right, do not involve others, do not spread b., think about what you say and who you are attacking. Did you even imagine how anyone working or having worked in covid ward and wanting a lockdown, if that person exist, could have feel to be said they were saying that because they know they will be able to sit in their couch, enjoying tea in their slippers ? Or do you really think the chance of this person existing being void ?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

It really bothers me that people can claim to "believe in science" when they are ignorant of what standard medical product development timelines look like and criticize or mock those with legitimate questions. Science is literally the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, and the unrelenting need to continue to check, recheck, prove, and disprove. All those who can't imagine a vaccine having unintended side effects in the future are really just seeing what they want to for piece of mind or convenience.

So you think the best minds that have dedicated their lives to develop and test vaccines for efficacy and safety do not know as much as you do? because those are the ones that say the vaccines are the best available option we have right now. Vaccines do not have to be absolutely perfect in any way to be the logical choice, they simply have to be importantly less risky than the infection and the good news is that they are. These vaccines are the product of more than a decade of development, mRNA has been used on humans for many years longer than COVID have been with us, without any specific problems made evident until now. The infection on the other hand keeps getting more and more health problems being associated with it and this trend is not likely to change in the future.

Let's imagine a woman wants to get pregnant in the next 6 months. She wants to get vaccinated, but is unsure of what kind of effect it may have on her fetus. She is also worried about booster shots that would be given during the pregnancy. She wants to have more information about the risks, and the long-term potential risks. Is she an "anti-vaxxer"? Is she "anti-science"? Should she be punished for wanting information? Should she be punished for asking legitimate questions?

Asking questions is not what antivaxxers do, they ask loaded questions, then ignore all the answers. In your specific example, if the woman get answers, specifically that COVID will increase over 20 times her chances of dying during the pregnancy and also killing the baby or making it be born importantly preterm, thus affecting it for the rest of his life, while the vaccine has no reported negative effects until now and it is extremely unlikely to have them in the future, and she accept these answers she is obviously not an antivaxxer.

But if she instead reject this explanation and ends up choosing not to be vaccinated because a video she saw said the vaccines are risky for her, she is no longer being rational, and if another pregnant woman ask her why and she willingly chooses to hide the information about the risks of the infection and instead forwards the baseless video, she is acting exactly like an antivaxxer would do.

We are not talking about a disease that has been with us for centuries, but something new that keeps getting complications and risks discovered. Automatically assuming what we see right now is the whole range of risks from being infected is not a valid argument.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

40% of Tokyo residents have been injected, where is the benefit?

of that 40% nearly all are the elderly, just on NHK the other night,

16/17 94% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated nearly all under the age of 65.

Japans data along with many other countries around the world show the vaccines are working.

Sorry the science and facts dont care about your opinions or feelings

1 ( +6 / -5 )

No. You are just someone looking for a quick fix to a large problem and could care less what kind of potential issues it may cause for anyone else.

and how else do you expect to fix this pandemic, just let people continue their lives as normal and wait for the world to reach herd immunity, 70% of 7.8billion at a 2~3% mortally rate is around 106~160million dead. Imagine walking down a busy mall and suddenly seeing 1 in every 50 people falling dead, everywhere , thats a lot of dead bodies to take away

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

AntiquesavingToday  12:58 pm JST

letsberealisticToday  12:42 pm JST

Lockdowns can work anywhere no matter how many people there are if there is a decisive well-organised govt, a compliant and caring community and the right tools and systems set up, as is the case in NZ

Again still avoided the question or giving an answer on how!

But I will point out a very simple flaw in your usual reply.

a compliant and caring community and the right tools and systems set up, as is the case in NZ

you do realise organising a small number of people vs a greatly larger number is a very different thing.

Organise a dinner for 7 then try organising a dinner for 39.

No comparison, in both cases (NZ and Japan), we are talking about millions of people, not a handful.

And this is not a dinner we are organising for millions of people bud. :)

Lockdown rules are not complicated and apply to everyone no matter how many;

Stay indoors, wear a mask, use contact teaching apps, get tested, get vaccinated.

How does the number of people determine whether they comply or not to rules?!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

In awful news for the anti vaxxers, the Pfizer vaccine will be the first to be fully approved in the US tomorrow. They will no longer be able to use the already incorrect term ‘experimental’.

...or it just reinforces the idea of regulatory capture. Another strong indicator of this is the fact that the decision makers are still stalling on the acceptance of safe and effective repurposed drugs; they chose to let many people suffer and die needlessly.

It really bothers me that people can claim to "believe in science" when they are ignorant of what standard medical product development timelines look like and criticize or mock those with legitimate questions. Science is literally the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, and the unrelenting need to continue to check, recheck, prove, and disprove. All those who can't imagine a vaccine having unintended side effects in the future are really just seeing what they want to for piece of mind or convenience.

So you think the best minds that have dedicated their lives to develop and test vaccines for efficacy and safety do not know as much as you do? because those are the ones that say the vaccines are the best available option we have right now.

Actually, no! The best minds do not say that. For example, Robert Malone, who is the inventor of this technology and is also an expert of bioethics and regulatory affairs has a number of serious questions regarding these vaccines. There are many other "top minds" with very similar views. Vaccines are just one among many approaches and should at most only be recommended for the more vulnerable people; i.e., those for whom the risks from infection outweigh those from the vaccine.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

@Alfie Noakes

Comedy gold from Japan's Pravda. It was widely reported in the vernacular media that Suga requested Keidanren to ask its members to implement a work from home policy. Keidanren said it would urge its members to do so but couldn't make any promises. The end.

Actually, I am hopeful that will have an impact. It had during the first S.O.E. so they could manage to generate some more teleworkers. Thought no idea how many.

But I believe Suga going with his lockdown never, is not going to help. He should have gone for warning mode like : "I do not think lockdown are actually necessary and that the situation is going to improve but if we were to see no significant improvement in the next few days, we would have no choice to strongly consider the implementation of a lockdown."

That could serve as a wake up call for some companies to actually wake up of lethargic mode.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What difference is walking around the city going to make when people are still squeezing onto ridiculously overcrowded trains before spending 10+ hours in a fully occupied office? Both of these break the 3Cs the government keeps yapping about.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I'm sure few will understand this while most will take longer to accept it.

To simply put it. It is simply about the economy.

Japan simply cannot afford to shutdown nor lockdown.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@Aly R regarding online learning.

For reasons of contractual convidentiality I will be vague but I have observed this and can say the products available and the quality of good teaching assistance with online learning and the new tablet replacement for books will reduce the level and quality of education the children get even lower than it is already.

Unless that improves. I have seen no push at government of teacher level yet. The parents are just ignorant of what is actually going on. The next generation of children may not even develope the skills to read and write. Their maths will be basic and sciences will be more or less defunct.

Any parent out there should be keeping a very close eye on what their children are learning each day. How much time they are actually studying and most importantly are their skills improving at a good pace.

If I was a parent I would annoy my children with a small test each day both a quick verbal questioning session and a A4 page of questions. I would also regularly interogate their electronic devices. I would be doing that from age 6.

Online learning is absolutely no substitute to proper teaching. So far the tablet computer based systems are of painfully poor quality. Stars and Whistles may be fun but they are a glittery vaneer on a very large block of .... .

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

..or it just reinforces the idea of regulatory capture.

This is too obviously circular logic, which is part of what the antivaxxer movement is all about, vaccines can't be safe because they don't have a "proper" approval, and they can't have a "proper" approval because... they aren't safe.

Actually, no! The best minds do not say that. For example, Robert Malone, who is the inventor of this technology and is also an expert of bioethics and regulatory affairs has a number of serious questions regarding these vaccines.

That is in no way an example of the best minds, Malone choose to express a baseless opinion not supported by any data, and his questions have been long been answered by the information collected in millions of vaccinated people, but since he does not like the answers he is choosing to ignore them instead of discuss them, this is not what a qualified scientist is supposed to do and it is more an example of what the scientific method is designed to avoid. If people have to use these kind of baseless opinions as arguments is because nothing remotely better is available, as expected from something long debunked by actual science.

Not a single respected institution of science or medicine shares those baseless concerns, and they all (as in the whole world) support the vaccines as safe and effective options that reduce the risk from COVID without any realistic doubt.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

FluteToday  01:30 pm JST

@Antiquesaving

And you are you willing to pay the living expense of everyone which loose job and/or income throught these lengthy SOE and quasi SOE which are put one after another with no hope for an end in sight ? Are you willing to pay for all the people which would be affected by covid, loosing customers, job, income, ability to work, family members, ... ?

It goes both way. And is as stupid both way

Actually no it doesn't if you really want to work with numbers and be callus about it.

How many millions and it will be millions will be seriously affected by a lockdown unsupported and we do know it would be unsupported.

Vs

Those affected by covid even as things are.

Let me remind you I know first hand what covid can mean I lost 3 family members to it.

Let's remember how things went last year : government requesting left and right people not going out, shop to close and so on without any compensation whatsoever because it was just request, until enough pressure was put on it to force them issue a state of emergency and start giving money, then several/some landowner decided to postpone rent, several/some local business association gave support, ... . Then most in major district accepted to close. After around one month, the situation as improved and then business starting to be able to resume activities and make money again. If government implement lockdown it obviously will have to pay for the people which actually can not work and business losing money.

What country were you living in last year or was that something someone told you!?

Guess why no one will do it again because 90% of what you wrote is a dream that never happened.

Regarding density : Tokyo cities meaning the ward it is around 15.000 by km2, it does not even reach the 69 higher city density level in which is included cities from countries which actually implemented lockdown.

Who said anything about density.

Is that your way a skirting population size?

Again is it the same organizing a dinner for 7 as it is for 39?

It is that simple NZ 7 Greater Tokyo 39.

Do you cook in the same way? Do you dear them in the same way do you serve them in the same way are the logistics the same.

Hint! No!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

You are supposed to automatically assume those with the infection are unvaccinated and/or bad people.

I guess that explains it. It's shocking how narrow minded people are.

Fact is is totally pro-vaccine and looking forward to getting my 2nd shot tomorrow. I am just genuinely interested to get more data on the relative risk of delta even when vaccinated. Like a rational, sane person, looking for information to inform and guide my decisions.

But apparently all the down voters interpreted my request as an anti vaccine statement. A perfect example of how polarised things have become, and how this is all now just a matter of identity politics rather than facts. People simply dont want to take in information that doesn't fit their pre selected view of the world. Sad.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

letsberealisticToday  01:57 pm JST

AntiquesavingToday  12:58 pm JST

> No comparison, in both cases (NZ and Japan), we are talking about millions of people, not a handful.

And this is not a dinner we are organising for millions of people bud. :)

Lockdown rules are not complicated and apply to everyone no matter how many;

Stay indoors, wear a mask, use contact teaching apps, get tested, get vaccinated.

How does the number of people determine whether they comply or not to rules

Still avoided the question!

How many times will you post the same non answer?

Who is going to pay the bills for those not working?

Who?

You?

Comply with the "rules" sound like something one would hear in 1939.

So then I guess you proceed making dinner for 39 in the same way you do for 7?

Going to be a lot of cold food and hungry guests!

But I am guessing you in your comfortable life don't care because it doesn't affect you.

That much is very clear, you like the rest of the white collars here have no respect even disdain for those lower than you as you are clearly ready to sacrifice them and their families for your comfort and safety.

Get your Vaccine I got mine but I have to actually work.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

AntiquesavingToday  02:28 pm JST

Still avoided the question!

What question?

Who is going to pay the bills for those not working?

Govt. Australian and NZ governments are paying for (much of the) wages

Comply with the "rules" sound like something one would hear in 1939.

So then I guess you proceed making dinner for 39 in the same way you do for 7?

Going to be a lot of cold food and hungry guests!

But I am guessing you in your comfortable life don't care because it doesn't affect you.

That much is very clear, you like the rest of the white collars here have no respect even disdain for those lower than you as you are clearly ready to sacrifice them and their families for your comfort and safety.

I don't understand this, sorry.

I live and work in NZ and I'm not 'white collar' I'm self-employed

Thanks for talking with me today.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

@Aly R regarding online learning.

For reasons of contractual convidentiality I will be vague but I have observed this and can say the products available and the quality of good teaching assistance with online learning and the new tablet replacement for books will reduce the level and quality of education the children get even lower than it is already.

This can be fixed with structural improvement and more thought and funds to online education

Unless that improves. I have seen no push at government of teacher level yet. The parents are just ignorant of what is actually going on. The next generation of children may not even develope the skills to read and write. Their maths will be basic and sciences will be more or less defunct.

AGree 100%. But the key is to develop and improve online learning- not write it off.

Any parent out there should be keeping a very close eye on what their children are learning each day. How much time they are actually studying and most importantly are their skills improving at a good pace.

ABsolutely.

Online learning is absolutely no substitute to proper teaching.

used in conjunction with proper home schooling, it is better. I have plenty of family members who studied from home and did correspondence courses even before the internet age- if done correctly, home schooling can be even better.

So far the tablet computer based systems are of painfully poor quality. Stars and Whistles may be fun but they are a glittery vaneer on a very large block of .... .

Maybe. But that again is all about structural improvement. That is the conversation we should be having. How can we improve home schooling and online learning and make it part of the the new normal?

And its not as if the J educational system was marvelous before.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

And this is not a dinner we are organising for millions of people bud. :)

Lockdown rules are not complicated and apply to everyone no matter how many;

It seems some are not able to make a simple comparison or take things far to literally.

Ok tell us if both these would be the same logistical and in implementing.

You have a disaster, you need to prepare and receive 700 people needing assistance.

A bit later another disaster but this time you have 3,900 in need.

Is the second as easily done as the first, do you need the same resources, the same logistics, etc...?

If you think they are/do then please avoid ever handling or dealing with a major disaster or situation involving people's lives.

I was trained and worked in search and rescue I have been in major disaster situations massive flooding in the Canadian prairies forest fire evacuation, etc.. with a small population was nothing like the situation of the Mexico city earthquake in 1985 and I did both millions needing aid vs tens of thousands apples and mountains they have very little if anything in common.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Fact is is totally pro-vaccine and looking forward to getting my 2nd shot tomorrow. 

well thats great , my second shot is in 2 weeks, seems youve come to the realisation that the Delta variant is far more risky to contract than the risks that might be associated with taking the vaccine. 500mill vaccinated worldwide and no mass deaths or health problems associated with it.

so far 208million infected, 4.3 million dead. put this into perspective that less than 3% people worldwide.

image 70% people infected to reach herd immunity with no vaccine 2~3% fatlity rate, 106^160million dead, yeah thats not an option any sane person with intelligence is even contemplating

3 ( +4 / -1 )

letsberealisticToday  02:45 pm JST

AntiquesavingToday  02:28 pm .

I live and work in NZ and I'm not 'white collar' I'm self-employed

Thanks for talking with me today

Wait let me get this straight you live in NZ haven't the slightest idea what is going happening on the ground here in Japan but think your view has any bearing on our situation?

I guess I behave been trying to explain how an electric light works to someone that doesn't even know what electricity is.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Online learning/Online teaching? Where are the students supposed to develop their social skills ESPECIALLY in a place like Japan where the youth are already becoming shy of the other sex? Its a technique only suited to children and students that CANNOT flourish in a group environment for mostly mental reasons and for teachers that are too lazy to attend a workplace and nurture the students individually.

Without pointing any fingers - those that wish for a little more time pursuing other activities which are otherwise restricted time wise with 'inconveniences' such as commuting and a little prep for the odd student who has fallen behind and or is struggling with one aspect of his/her chosen subject

As for lockdowns, @Antiquesaving is correct, there are many on here that simply fail to understand the amount of financial aid that other governments have handed out that simply isn't going to happen here. I don't actually even think if enforced legally a lockdown would work OR be possible to enforce in a cities such as Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya. It might be possible to gain near full compliance in small cities for a brief period.

Great to be back after my ban! Once again - Anti-Vaxxers...Pfizer will will be a FULLY APPROVED vaccine as of tomorrow in the USA - don't come back with 'Not in Japan' as your reference is the FDA. No more of your 'experimental' nonsense please!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@letsberealistic: If you live and work in NZ then how are you in a position to compare to the current situation in Metropolitan Tokyo?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

It spreads even with lockdowns and wearing masks.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

To sum up :

Japanese government is unable to cope in a logical way with a complex and varying situation (as most Japanese do)

Vaccine is helpful at individual and collective level, but reduced effect Ith Delta or any little variation virus get (as for flu variants)

No one cares if old people or with comorbities individual die, or far less compare to Christian countries. Dying alone at home is convenient for Japanese as not lose face/be held responsible.(I would personally go on a rage if one of my elder would let die alone).

figures given, especially the death rate can't be true, or defined in a way that cannot compare to western definition (one order of scale difference study shows)

in addition, having old people die isn't bothering because it helps the financial dire situation to pay the retirement pensions.

Not surprised that people walk and continue life as nothing is happening.

As an example, an acquaintance in Japan would meet a friend in a park today, instead of a restaurant/cafe. It means though taking the crowded train in Tokyo area ;(

Good luck Japan and vaccination remains one of the keys.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Antiquesaving

we do know it would be unsupported.

What country were you living in last year or was that something someone told you!?

Guess why no one will do it again because 90% of what you wrote is a dream that never happened.

It happened, you yourselves claimed to be given 1million plus the 100000 by head and that your family is teleworking and your shop to be closed. You have the right to say it was not enough and oppose the government for that.

Notice I never said all shop close nor all around not all get help from landlord/local business association. I did not claim it was everyone.

Who said anything about density.

My bad, I was making a link with your reference about housing size in a previous post, should have stated it in a more direct way.

Regarding cost with population, GDP should be better tools :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_byGDP(PPP)_per_capita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_byGDP(nominal)_per_capita

https://www.workandmoney.com/s/wealthiest-countries-world-d4026086e01e4ac9

https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/23/the-richest-countries-in-the-world-in-2021/

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-25-richest-countries-in-the-world/

How many millions and it will be millions will be seriously affected by a lockdown

I know as I know we already have millions affected by it and we are most likely also going to have millions affected by just standing still or by just going for doing nothing. As said before it is the duty of the government to use the people money for the people. And I will stand that ground, I am not going to just go for to bad if they do not, so lets just not held them accountable.

As pointed before, the money you got in your pocket, no matter how small you find it, was given because people refused to bend and held the government accountable and made it a point the government had to act including giving support. If you prefer to let to the government the choice to do nothing, feel free to.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Raw Beer:

Actually, no! The best minds do not say that. For example, Robert Malone, who is the inventor of this technology and is also an expert of bioethics and regulatory affairs has a number of serious questions regarding these vaccines. There are many other "top minds" with very similar views.

Right. I wasn't referring to legitimize experts. I was referring to the general public, many of whom have decided they're "experts" because they like to rehash what they hear from the government/authorities and think "believing in science" means little more than "climate change = real" and "vaccines = 100% safe". But this is the internet, where people who have no clue about anything can say whatever they want and the masses agree simply because it reinforces a specific narrative/doesn't make them think.

Going back to the main topic of this story, I'd like someone from the government to explain why Fuji Rock has been allowed to take place this weekend. Has anyone seen the foot traffic THERE? It looks absolutely packed. Packed with tons of people under 40. Packed with tons of the very specific age groups that are driving the uncontrolled infections plaguing this country.

Where is the report that says attendees must show proof of vaccination? Where is the news that all those in attendance are wearing masks and not drinking? How in the world is the Japanese media not pouncing on this event and shaming everyone from the sponsors to the attendees to the bands themselves? This event makes the Olympics look like a quarantine isolation ward for crying out loud! At least the Olympics had daily testing and a controlled, specific group of people.

I can understand stadium events, at least if the seating is spread out. I can understand, to an extent, Disney World, if the rides aren't full and there is a cap to the number of people allowed admittance each day. Both should be suspended given the situation now, but that's just me. However the idea of a world-famous MEGA music event specifically geared towards YOUNG PEOPLE for THREE DAYS is just absolute insanity.

Just how many people from Fuji Rock are going to be infected? How many are infected? How many of them are taking the train to/from the venue? How many are going to work tomorrow? How many are living with other (potentially vulnerable) people? What is wrong with Japan??

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Online learning/Online teaching? Where are the students supposed to develop their social skills ESPECIALLY in a place like Japan where the youth are already becoming shy of the other sex?

right, cause they were doing so much better before the pandemic....

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

FluteToday  03:17 pm JST

@Antiquesaving

we do know it would be unsupported.

What country were you living in last year or was that something someone told you!?

Guess why no one will do it again because 90% of what you wrote is a dream that never happened.

It happened, you yourselves claimed to be given 1million plus the 100000 by head and that your family is teleworking and your shop to be closed. You have the right to say it was not enough and oppose the government for that.

Wow Flute you must be the most frugal person on the planet if you can live and pay bills support your family keep your business going on ¥ 1.1 Million during a year and ba half.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Let end this fantasy talk about lockdown!

This is Japan not NZ not Australia not Canada, etc...

Those of us that have been here a long long time remember the slow disastrous response to the Kobe earthquake and the equally disastrous response to Tohoku.

It took months for the first financial support to reach these people, oh they got SDF and other times of shelter and yes they got food.

But money that took months.

The financial relief that will be needed if the Greater Tokyo area is put into lockdown will make these other two situations look like child's allowance being handed out by mom or dad.

We know the government should be doing more we know that what is going on isn't right but to sit here and pretend or fantasize that by some insane miracle the government will suddenly do something it has never been able to in the past is a waste of time.

At best we can hope they fix the problems with vaccination, the hospitals situation and maybe if we are really lucky testing.

Everything else is a moot point because it is never going to happen.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Antiquesaving

You purposely forgot the part about the fact that I found it rightful you think it is not enough and go against the government for that.

And considering your situation : family of 4, with 3 adults excluding yourselves, which were able to work for a great part of these one year and half (according to your several posts along this period) + a business which I thought was totally dead but appear to still have a bit of activities ; if you were clearly hit by the situation and can legitimately complain ; you should also be able to understand that is distasteful to post this kind of comments (as the last one). Do you need me to bring up all articles you have most likely read too about people living with less than 1million a year, living in 3 tatamis room, manga cafe, storage containers, ... people whose business is closed for months now, ... people ending up out of work and unable to find something else and now relying on government assistance if eligible, association, not well perceived job, ... ? You know nothing about the people reading you nor to whom you are talking to, so I will appreciate you to be more mindful (perhaps other too).

And to answer your non question : yes I am an extremely frugal person, thought not the most frugal of the world. If I was less lucky, perhaps I would have become it (excluding the world as a real entity were there are actually people living with 0yens, obviously I admit the unreal setting of the initial statement and follow suit).

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

FluteToday  04:09 pm JST

@Antiquesaving

And considering your situation : family of 4, with 3 adults excluding yourselves, which were able to work for a great part of these one year and half (according to your several posts along this period) + a business which I thought was totally dead but appear to still have a bit of activities

No idea if you have a family or children.

Well this is Japan and unless you get really lucky can afford to send your children to some elite private high school and get into public university.

Try and think what 2 children in good private university cost with one doing her master in a science university.

I will given you a hint. First year standard business university ¥ 1 million first year science university ¥2 million now figure out a total of 6 years for science and 4 years for the standard business.

Got a figure in your head, well that is probably to low!

And most of that was paid for using loans.

As a single father through most of my time here I learned to use what is available, this is not Canada or the UK support is far and few between and I think far to many foreigners don't realise that.

3 surgeries heading for a 4th for my son 30% of that bill we have to pay,

My late wife's cancer treatment 30% we had to pay,

Welcome to the real Japan not the fantasy that so many foreigners think.

Take a little jont into Adachi-ku, Sumida-ku, Kita-ku, etc... See what is there see the businesses that are the living room of those working there.

My friends don't have the funds to last even one month of a lockdown and we know that in no reality would the government be able to get a single payment out within 3 months even less a month even if by some miracle it did decide to support people during a lockdown.

Oh btw that ¥1 million it took the government 10 months to process and finally get it to me good thing 7-11 was hiring and no not a joke.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

@Antiquesaving

Do you want tissue ?

Stop thinking you, your family and your acquaintance are the only ones going throught hardship. And that this hardship is the worst one as to come through.

You children start their active life with an heavy loan to shoulders. They are not the only ones. What about complaining to the government to not offering more support to students as they are the future of the country ?

You had to face heavy medical cost. You are not the only ones. What about complaining to the government to not offering better heathcare support ?

You needed to wait 10 months to get money ? You are not the only ones. What about complaining to the government for not being more efficient ?

The money is not enough for you ? Most likely not the only one either. What about complaining to the government for not providing better support ?

For all of these questions and any of the kind your answer seems to be : mendokusai.

Welcome to the real Japan not the fantasy that so many foreigners think.

A bit of discriminationism when you are at it.

Welcome to reality, you want something fight for it : take the street, vote, convince people to vote, voice your disagreement, ...

Do not go giving the government the choice : you do nothing and let us shoulder the cost as we will not held you accountable or you give us money. Obviously, they will choose the first.

~=~=~

I hope the start of my post was harsh enough for you to understand what I mean by requesting you to be more mindful of other. If not, no idea what can do it. We are not soldiers competing about the one which are the more battlefield scars. Everyone is suffering to a degree or another be it precovid, during or postcovid, no matter what as be done, is being done and will be done.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

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