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Gov't says 2 elderly people from cruise ship have died; another 2 officials infected with coronavirusBy Linda Sieg and Chang-Ran Kim TOKYO
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The problem is, so many people on the Diamond Princess have tested positive almost on a daily basis. This means that the so called quarantine clearly was not working. Other countries who brought back their citizens are doing the right thing in having the people go through another 14 day quarantine. Japan should be following suit. What's so hard to understand?
Everyone living in Japan, good luck.
It is an outbreak waiting to happen, i doubt any of the Japanese on board will self quarantine.
A missed opportunity here, don't the SDF have bases all over the country, pop up hospitals? NBC suits. One barracks for infected one for non. This could have been used as a real life training exercise rather than a scripted one. Could have been helpful to test equipment, cross management and personal in such a scenario. If all under the control of CDC experts. Those people being released soly on 2 weeks quarantine on a boat that daily spreads the virus is typical bueacatic thinking. Now next week how many will develop the virus. And spread it.
So a person on the ship is scheduled to leave but walks past /chats with another person showing no symptoms but who is a carrier. Catches the disease, disembarks with no symptoms and spreads it to everyone around him/her because the government says passengers disembarking don't need further quarantine. Great! Nice thinking Japanese Government.
actually, I am lost for words, it's sad day for Japan. I can only remember " three stooges " sayings
Every time you think, you weaken the nation. ...
If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed. ...
I'm positive about the negative, but a little negative about the positive
There's a thousand reasons why I shouldn't drink... but I can't think of one right now.
Don't you dare hit me in the head, you know I'm not normal
If there's anything I like better than honey and ketchup, it's baloney and whipped cream --- and we haven't got any
I shoot an arrow into the air, where it lands I do not care: I get my arrows wholesale!
A simple job for simple people.
This is just Japan culture. Once a plan is made, it is nearly impossible to change. There’s no inherit flexibility.
Also everything is done as a group, and people are not allowed to question the group decision once it is made. Even if the decision will result in complete decimation including their own lives, you can bet that the plan will not change and people will rather accept death than to question.
Nothing has changed since Fukushima...except this time the US took the lead and took care of its own.
CDC could of got involved but just like Fukushima, Im sure they would of been blocked
japan has allot in common with another country...wonder who that is?
For good or for bad that is not true, if a disease have 14 days of incubation and a lot of people were infected on the few days before being quarantined then they would become positive for infection even if the isolation was perfect because that is what incubation means. At the beginning they would not have any symptoms nor they would be positive in the tests but they would be already infected.
The problem is that this assumes the quarantine was done properly and the people leaving it had no contact with the pathogen during their quarantine, the only way to know this would be to observe the people leaving the ship for another 2 weeks and see if anybody becomes positive for infection during that time, even one person that does would prove that everybody else is also at risk, but at this time the people in charge can still defends their decisions on a quarantine that is assumed to be working.
Two of the infected passengers from the Diamond Princess have just died.
Gottlieb: Japan appears to be on the cusp of a large coronavirus outbreak
These American that did not leave are idiots,and should left to fend, for themselves, do they expect the US to medivac them for free
Virusrex if you do not ,do a blood test,you cannot detect the present of the virus
Two passengers from the ship have just died.
Japan just allowed people from a highly infesion boat freely into Japan.... the boat was a breeding lab and those people are some of the most likely people in Japan to have caught the virus.
Headline in the next few days, "person that leaves boat is infected"....
"Kato defended the government's response again on Thursday, saying that while a ship differed from a hospital, officials had responded daily to issues pointed out by experts."
Come on, guys, it was the PERFECT phone call -- I mean, handling of the situation. Absolutely perfect. Nothing was wrong about it.
It is obvious that an increase of cases could have been expected since there was a long incubation period. We could also add that new cases could appear inside shared quarter, so they got this one and extend quarantine for these people.
But what the government is doing Couéing its way as the quarantine worked perfectly well.
As there was know exterior new cases : 3 people in charge of the quarantine, they should be able to understand that something went wrong even without taking in account the video of the professor.
The worst is that, the blame for the fail is starting to be put on people (passengers and crew) as the quote of the day show. And I do not think that is going to stop same with onshore case, the blame will just fall on the people.
If any one of the passengers that left the ship and currently quarantined in their country test positive in the coming days, it will be a direct link to say the governments plan has failed. Wait and watch this space!
The professor was right. Too bad he removed his video.
Two are now dead.
Japan is an excellent country in many ways but does not manage crisis well.
Singapore looks like they have a playbook ready to go for this and it is truly amazing the way it is handled here. Harvard University even called Singapore the "textbook case for identifying those who have the virus".
Ah but this assumes reason and a willingness to adapt to the circumstances, which Japanese culture sorely lacks.
The SDF quarantine would never fly not because of logistics (your idea is quite sound!) but because they would have to seek permission from the military brass and/or base commander, who wouldn’t want his little manicured garden trampled on (nor his ego to sunlit to infectious diseases experts - hah, civilians! - to dictate how to setup the quarantine) so will just say “it’s impossible” or “nothing can be done”. And then this will trickle back and people will say oh shouganai, Ok, nothing can be done. Give up and go back to the ship and keep spreading the virus.
It’s not just the ship, folks. I have a friend who works in a hospital in Tokyo and I’ve heard how a doctor and nurse there both caught COVID19 at a nomikai, and the nurse was still going to work before being quarantined. A colleague of that nurse - who was likely exposed to the virus - is still at work and not using a face mask. The hospital has now stopped accepting new patients (wonder how many hospitals need to get infected before the medical system breaks down). The hospital made local Japanese news but is not showing up here. The virus is indeed spreading and just not being talked about.
I didnt see in the article that they died from the virus.
Someone said China but I was thinking North Korea. Saw someone say online once that Japan is like North Korea just with a GDP and it’s really hard to disagree when stuff like this happens.
Disembarked Japanese passengers, however, face no such restrictions, a decision that has sparked concern.
You have to be joking...
Just on the face of it, isn’t it ridiculous that countries have to airlift their citizens out of the petri dish death trap ship? Like, there is a total breakdown of proper infection control protocol and the only recourse is emergency airvac. Yet another shameful stain on the competency of the Japanese government.
Other sources have added that the both the man and the woman, who were in their 80s had underlying medical conditions.
I look forward to seeing the next Field Briefing, as this only shows the onset dates from up to the 15th, and it looks like the onboard quarantine was mostly working.
No new cases from the Princess today, but one new general population case in Japan.
As a resident of Japan I would appreciate if you could share this information. Do you have a link or a source?
S.Korea has had a sudden surge, with 38 members of one culty-church testing positive.
Proves that just letting them go was the worst choice the government could have had. But rather than admitting they were wrong they would rather risk the life of literally the world with the Olympics coming. #beingoftheend
@T-E, that case Velius mentioned was reported on NHK as a nurse at the boat restaurant nomikai where the taxi driver got it, later passing it to his mother in law who was the first Japanese fatality. The doctor may have contracted it later from the infected nurse, the news said.
That is false, not all viruses circulate importantly in blood, so its perfectly possible that people would be positive by detecting the virus in the nasal secretions (where is already known the virus abundant) but negative in the blood (because only a small number of viruses circulate).
What is searched in blood tests is actually antibodies, but at this point there is no test to detect them because it requires many months of development and testing.
In short, blood tests are less useful than what is being done right now.
Unfortunately this is not indicative of the quality of the quarantine because the people in charge are not quarantined themselves (since they are expected to be in close contact with other people including infected patients and heavily contaminated spaces).
Up to the point where one person that has been supposedly "isolated" from any direct contact with positive patients and contaminated spaces becomes positive himself the quarantine can be defended as working.
What is wrong with these people? Do they not get the basic basics of how quarantine works? You hold people in quarantine until ALL of the people in that quarantine are free of illness past the incubation period. If even one gets sick, the prior tests on everyone else are all meaningless and you have to wait and start over.
The Japnese authorities are allowing Japanese people to just walk off the ship and go straight back into society. This is dangerous beyond belief.
Anyone disembarking should be further quarantined in an appropriate medical facility until it is proven beyond doubt they dont have the virus.
The report literally says that people who previously tested negative are now in serious conditions.
How would Japan deal with a future disaster?
As a foreigner I really don’t want to find out-too depressing!
The truth is this: The Japanese government had to protect the 127 million people in Japan. Bluntly put, the ship, just like Wuhan was put in lock down. Not to save the ship, but to save Japan. The foreign governments could have airlifted their people out sooner. Why did not do it? Japan should have let its peole off and sent the ship to find another port. Just like the US did.
Imagine a big earthquake, which is a real possibility in Japan. How will the Japanese Gov't handle it? If I were living in Japan, I'd prepare for shelter, food and water TODAY!
As I've explained multiple times back when people were screaming about Japanese getting off those evacuation planes, the basic problem is that Japan's government is not empowered by the legislature to deprive people of liberty except for a very small group of positively named diseases (which of course this is not one of).
In fact, I wonder how they even managed to keep people on this ship (from a legal basis perspective) - perhaps what they actually did was deny them permission to enter Japan, and since they can't exactly jump into the sea that was how the quarantine was fudged together there.
Anyway, now that they are allowed "into Japan", the fudge ends here. Further, having already suffered through one period of deprivation, there is something against the idea of imposing another one because the goal of the first one was not achieved. Really, people, isn't this the usual complaint - the prosecutors siccing on another period when the first one did not suffice? Fundamentally it is the same thing here.
OK, let's see how many downvotes this education in basic legalities would cost me.
This is very troubling.
and this from NYPost:
The isolation was not effective, all the Government did was create a large petri dish for the virus to spread. I think those passengers were guinea pigs to see what, if anything would happen.
But still they are not being counted as casualties in Japan, but casualties on an international conveyance... apparantly saving face is very important...
Perhaps they didn't even plan to go back yet in the first place, let alone spend another 2 weeks in quarantine. Call them idiots is unwarranted.
The authorities schreibened it up badly. No excuse. Just line up and bow deeply please.
Dr. Syra Madad, senior director of New York City's System-wide Special Pathogens Program weighs in..
She has some interesting things to say.
She weighs in on the cruise ship at 1:30.
There are certainly legal issues surrounding the keeping of people on the ship for an extended period. But every other country is requiring that all passengers undergo further quarantine, except Japan. The two weeks they have been under quarantine started on February 5th but the possibility of secondary infections taking place right up until the moment the left the ship is extremley high. There it is incredibly risky to release them back into the public. Japan would rather save face that save lives.
For the government there was no winning. No matter what they did, they would be severely criticized. This is because the people are foolish, and actually believe there was something that could be done to contain this cold virus. They also believe that outside of laboratory or hospital conditions that gauze masks from the drug store are going to protect them. And so much more complete foolishness. Flu kills tens of thousands each year across the world, maybe more and mostly old. Pneumonia is the third leading cause of death in Japan, again, mostly old people. This cold is so bad it causes pneumonia. But people love to get hysterical and actually get mad when presented with boring facts that to them, amount to a buzz kill. But just as soon as the pitchforks are hung up, there will be an all new hysteria to drag them down again.
This is base on a report of cases not yet reviewed that explicitly says that their epidemiological data is lacking,
One single patient refers his possible infection to 24 days before developing symptoms but after that date he was in frequent contact with people from the epicenter of the outbreak and the possibility of him being actually infected during this time is huge.
The Chinese doctor that is supposedly whistleblowing this explanation is inflating the reliability of the original report without justification even contradicting what the actual authors of the report say about it. There is simply no credible data that points to more than 2 weeks of incubation.
3 nuclear power plants explode is your answer.
BS! Japan did start afterwards to put the evacuees from China into quarantine:
From the article linked above:
"A total of 197 people had stayed at a hotel in Chiba Prefecture and various government facilities for quarantine screenings since they returned on Jan. 29 from the Chinese city at the center of the outbreak.
They all tested negative in their final virus examination conducted Tuesday after completing a 12½-day monitoring period for the deadly pneumonia-causing virus."
I have all faith that the government under Abe is capable ...
Oh no I do not think that. That maroon is not even capable of tying his shoes.
i love the "experts" here who are so sure they know how the disease spread on the ship. many are blaming the ventilation system but if that were the case, then the whole ship would have the disease. but so far only 20-25% have it. i'd rather have the disease isolated on the ship than roaming in any urban center. so i'm not exactly sure what else the gov't could have done to stem the spread of this disease.
I hate to say this but from the very first day of this issue...the ship has been the breeding ground of virus!!! Now Japan is the second Wuhan!!!
You are not an expert either are you? Here is quote from Tropical disease specialist Dr Richard Dawood who says coronavirus could spread if air is moving along ducts between cabins:
"It depends on the particular system that’s used. Some air conditioners are simply cooling units in their rooms and I wouldn’t expect that to do it. But if air is being ducted between one part of the ship to another then that could possible be a factor."
So although not confirmed yet, the ventilation system could have contributed to the infection.
About the cases in the countriside who had no China connection. Did they eat something made in China or buy something made in China at a 100 yen shop (where almost everything is made in China). Can the coronavirus live long enough to infect people in this scenario?
None of the armchair experts on JT are. Yet they all talk about what exactly the problem was, based on a news story and rampant speculation, that they use to come to conclusions that cannot logically be supported solely by the simplicity of their premise.
just an update:
japan is now at 87 cases and South Korea has SPIKED to 87 cases as well.
some info on SK
This shows how to not handle such situation,the international community is rising doubts about the effectiveness of how the Japanese government handled the whole situation.
People who are not infected leaving the ship... why is this a bad idea? Surely they'll only let people off who are clear?
The JP government needed to do two things for the quarantine to be effective: (1) isolate the infected on the ship from land and (2) isolate the infected from the non-infected on the ship. Not saying (2) is easy, but it's obvious now it was a complete failure by the JP government. People are defending the government for successfully doing (1), but the truth is, they haven't, because they've just released hundreds of people from the ship onto land after failing to do (2).
Confused?...people within the mandated quarantine period continued to be infected. Just because the mandated 2 weeks is over (as decided by bueuracrats) does in no way mean these people are clear of infection at all! (Little thing called incubation period.)
How dare they ignor the time period allotted, I know that's so rude! Still confused? The arm with the watch on it is usually your left.
The Japanese, some of whom, I know well,usually express a ‘let’s go down with the ship together’ mentality.
Others are free thinking.
They have second passports, homes or experience in other countries and have a skeptical view of the government.
Fortunately, most foreigners are able to plan for eventualities which find cause to return home or move to a second place.
We should all have (at least) a plan ‘B’
About a week ago I made a comment here about foreign countries evacuating their citizens from that ship, saying that the last thing the Japan government wants is a passenger dies on the ship. It would be a big PR disaster. Although technically the two Japanese did not die onboard, it does not make any difference to the critics. Hopefully those seriously sick will recover.
We're not expert, we just subscribe to the the theory, you don't have to be an expert to know 621 infections and two deaths in a tightly controlled environment means someone really screwed up, really badly.
Japan might have tried to moderate its tone towards Chinese tourists, but soon it will have to deal with no yoyrism at all. It has fried the golden egg of tourism, ie 'a safe place to visit'. IMHO, even Chinese tourists will be staying away because of this.
Abe should be resigning.
The Japanese authorities dropped the ball big time on this one! From the very beginning it was a tough challenge because it was an unprecedented situation but they are still making huge mistakes now by not doing a further quarantine of those being released from ship. There is a very high chance that some of them are carriers and will spread the virus now that they have been let loose in the general population. The negative test is not always correct ( as previously seen by one or two evacuees from Wuhan who tested negative and a few days after release tested positive ). Also every time a new person gets infected the timer resets for at least 14 days! It was just common sense to further PROPERLY quarantine these people on land before releasing them to the general population.
People in Japan stay safe but it’s difficult to protect yourself now because of the land size to human space ratio especially in Tokyo which is a ‘ Petri dish ‘! The virus will spread so now that the carriers are out there so look for ways and means to minimize the spread such as washing hands, avoiding crowds, taking a full body shower from head to toe after reaching home, wearing proper face mask in the appropriate way, washing all your clothes instantly after returning home, place alcohol hand wash near the door of your house and use it instantly upon reaching home. But all these might not work to protect you completely.
If so, they’re not going to let out that information. It’d be don’t speak to reporters, we’ll give you the best treatment and reduce your inheritance taxes for your descendant beneficiaries.
@ Kazuaki Shimazaki
And people already explained to you by translating the content of the source you used to prove your point that you were wrong. Japan can do it and did it. What do you think Japan is ? You know how many new epidemic and pandemic went around the world ? You really think, for years, Japan was sitting on their thumb this much ? Not being practically ready for something this size and not being legally ready are 2 different things.
So for anybody worried about that : do not worry Japan can forcefully as of now (and a while back) put people in quarantine. For the rest, let hope than a usual the smarter ones get their way to the ear of the decision maker ones sooner than later.
So why is the Japanese government letting them out without a quarantine? The ship was a failed quarantine.
Already fudging numbers. Both are COVID-19 victims as anywhere else reported, right?
What the Japanese did was not a quarantine but a 14-day detention.
When they should have let the uninfected out (to be quarantine) they detained them incubating then virus and possibly infecting them
And when they should have quarantined the released, they released them with no restrictions.
Step aside. Let the experts handle it.
The problem is that the quarantine effectiveness is dubious and false negative happen moreover if someone doesn't have symptom.
So nobody now if they are infected or not. The quarantine should free them of suspicion of being infected prior to the 5th. After, well that will be the surprise.
My opinion is that they didn't erase the risk of further infection during the quarantine period. Other disagree. Everyone, normally, hope that in the end all the people which left were not infected.
Quarantine, isolation, detention, what ever. I just know, for the majority of passengers on that cruise ship, their chances of being covid-19 free would have been much better off the ship.
TARA TAN KITAOKA
Confining victims of the corona virius in a criuse ship is a crime. These 2 people could have been saved if affected2 people were hospitalized with help as soon as they were discoverd. This is a crime.Sue for a better system in the future and for the sake of the 2 dead victims.
According to NHK, the man who has died developed a fever on the 10 and was hospitalised the following day; the woman had a fever from the 5th, and was hospitalised on the 12th after experiencing breathing difficulties.
The isolation, ie; quarantine was effective. It kept the infected separated from everyone on the mainland. It was not effective in terms of keeping those onboard separated between those infected and not infected. It wasn't an "experiment" of any sort because it was obvious that a complete quarantine onboard the ship was impossible from the start.
Also regarding the case in Fukuoka the man had no recent international travel history. Most likely implication is there are more cases waiting to emerge there. I guess time will tell
I am hearing that an 80 year old man in Okinawa has just been diagnosed in Naha. The report is stating he had "no contact with the passengers of the cruise ship".
Quite troubling, along with a case of another diagnosed man who had been at the Sapporo snow festival.
Really not much use pulling out the stops to barricade the front door when so little is being done about the multitude of windows and the back door. There never was any stopping this cold virus. In the big picture, nothing was an effective quarantine nor could have been anyway. Its been theater, and sadly, some of that theater has had a real and negative impact on human life. Yes...I literally advocated doing absolutely nothing about the Wuhan virus except to educate and advise the public to better care of themselves.
The spread and mortality is interesting. It seems outside of clusters this virus loses its ability to spread with extreme vigor and mortality is much much lower.
I think the ship is a unique case and although I’m no expert I would feel confident saying the ventilation system was at least a contributing factor to the virulence on the ship.
Of course we probably need a lot more data but I remember SARS seemed to exhibit the same characteristics (exponential decrease in mortality and spread further from source).
maybe a gradual/staged evacuation and quarantine of the ship may have been best I agree with some that say immediate evacuation of everyone would have been really hard.
The important thing is to be able to openly discuss these issues (even if it makes the government uncomfortable) to try to figure out the right way forward.
The government saying they did everything right is “ushi no unko” plain and simple.
Sorry to hear that Brits David Abel and his wife have been diagnosed as infected. You may have been watching his daily updates on Twitter/ Facebook from the ship. They are in hospital in Japan tonight.
Wishing them a speedy recovery.
Oh the link for the above story...
Another 13 new cases on the cruise ship today, now 1 day after the end of the quarantine, bringing the boat's total to 634.
And in Japan itself today, 8 more cases today (so far) making the country's total 92.
Oh, and Daegu city in Korea is set to become another Wuhan. Its 2.5 milion residents are now on near lockdown, with 53 new cases there in just 24 hours, effectively doubling the country's total to 104.
(somehow, I don't think this is a statistic that Korea wishes to out-do Japan with)
So if they aren't infected by the virus after the 2 weeks, why is it a problem to let them go? Your sarcastic comment didn't explain that. Or are you suggesting that everyone stays aboard until two weeks after the last person has been cleared of the infection? Meaning they may never actually leave the vessel... ever... since the air con system will keep circulating the air, spreading the virus.
If a person has shown NO SIGN of the virus, and has been quarantined for the 2 weeks is that person to stay on the ship... and possibly contract the virus because they were kept on board when they were found to be clear?
Maybe they were having fun on the ship? Or met another couple who liked to swing?
As far as the J-govt thinks, the ship quarantine was to keep the disease away from Japan. That seems to have failed. But they've had 2 weeks to push through emergency legislation to add this virus to the list to give them far reaching powers of quarantine. What happened with that effort?
Or are they still having a meeting about committee membership and chair placement?
These bureaucrats’s decision was a factor in the two elderly’s deaths. They had high fever from the 5th of this month but were trapped inside the ship instead of receiving care. They were hospitalized on the 13th and died on the 20th.
One person is said to infect 2-3 persons in Wuhan. On the Diamond Princess it’s reported as 5 people per Zero News.
Field Briefing: Diamond Princess COVID-19 Cases | NIID
"Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga defended Japan's efforts."
Of course he did, as other government officials have caught it after going aboard with little more than a paper mask.
"He told a news conference that after measures were put in place to isolate passengers on Feb. 5, the number of new infections was now almost at zero. "In that sense, we believe the isolation was effective," he said."
Well, let's say only 37 new cases were found today; that's one percent of the capacity of the ship, and some would consider 1% near 0%, but 37 is not 0, is it? And who knows how "close to zero" the government claims the rate to be.
I think he is talking about on-set case. The new diagnosed must be asymptomatic or are symptomatic from a date prior but were not tested.
Now, the question is how efficace is the testing. If it can detect during incubation, that means we will have to wait to see if these people are asymptomatic as in -still in incubation period then will become on-set case at some point or as in -out of the incubation period and just asymptomatic.
At least that is how I understood that.
(see Yamada Taro link, thanks for that).
Maria 'Bing' Velasquez Reid
“He told a news conference that after measures were put in place to isolate passengers on Feb. 5, the number of new infections was now almost at zero. "In that sense, we believe the isolation was effective," he said.
Japan's National Institute of Infectious Diseases (NIID) said in a report issued Wednesday that no new cases of the onset of the COVID-19 disease from the cruise ship were reported on Feb 16-17 and only one crew member case on Feb 15.”
The passengers were still mingling around doing yoga in the beginning.
Looks like new cases have subsided.
quercetumFeb. 20 11:18 pm JST
”They had high fever from the 5th of this month but were trapped inside the ship instead of receiving care. They were hospitalized on the 13th and died on the 20th.”
Are you sure about that? According to NHK, although they both died on the 20th, otherwise their timelines were different. The woman started having fever around the 5th and was hospitalized on the 12th. However the man didn’t develop fever until the 10th and was hospitalized on the 11th.
Stop messing with the infection numbers , if it’s Japanese citizens , you need to accept responsibility that J government kept their own citizens in the ship to be infected
you spend 30 billion dollars on Olympics and just made 10 million donations to WHO but you won’t spend money on getting your own citizens into isolated facilities
this is truly a sad day for Japan
Bingo. And this is because people are creating the clusters, governments are completing the creation with official quarantines and then going the extra step of mismanaging the quarantines...or I suppose...if you want conspiracy....purposely mismanaging. I am not afraid of getting the virus really. What really scares me is the thought of being locked up in any fashion with infected people during such a hysteria with bureaucrats at the helm.
We have another Bingo!
This is the main reason I canceled my trip to the US to see the folks last week. I didn’t care much for myself, but the thought of my wonderful friend/wife who’s English is not so great, being quarantined in the US scared me. Plus the fact that both folks are in their 80’s and live in a assisted living apartment complex.