Relatives of people killed in the atomic bombing offer flowers at the Hiroshima Memorial Cenotaph on Thursday. Photo: AP/Eugene Hoshiko
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Hiroshima marks 75th anniversary of A-bombing

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The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

They were little more than a brutal and cynical live human experiment on women and children. The depravity and racism of the US government and military is apparent from Harry Truman's demented giggling prior to his announcement of the mass murders at Hiroshima:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d42dMSAltnQ

See Kermit Beahan gloat as he claims responsibility for nuking the women and children of Nagasaki:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdJyOBriLTI&t=39s

As Brig. Gen. Carter W. Clarke, the officer in charge of preparing MAGIC intercepted cable summaries in 1945, stated:

"….we brought them [the Japanese] down to an abject surrender through the accelerated sinking of their merchant marine and hunger alone, and when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

As the historical record shows, six of the seven US WWII five star officers concluded that the nuking of hundreds of thousands of civilians was unnecessary. In fact, the nuking was one of the most brutal and cynical atrocities ever committed. As Admiral Chester W. Nimitz stated:

"The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war…."

Truman's own diaries show that he prolonged hostilities until the nukes were ready. We also know that he lied to the US public when he stated that Hiroshima was a "military target".

Prior to nuking Hiroshima, the U.S. military had already obliterated over 60 Japanese cities with napalm and white phosphorous. This conclusively proves that Hiroshima and Nagasaki had little value other than as an opportunity for the US military to conduct nuke testing on human subjects.

In this connection, Paul Tibbets is on record as stating that Hiroshima was set aside as a "virgin" test city. Additionally, the primary targets at Hiroshima were residential in nature with the overwhelming majority of casualties being civilian. In fact, Honkawa Elementary school was mere meters from the epicenter of the Hiroshima nuke strike.

-1 ( +38 / -39 )

Instead of the scorn, let’s take a moment of pause. No action comes from no where. War is disgusting, and the conditions that cause it should be well known to all, understood and avoided at all costs, but it will always lurking in our darker and often hidden natures. Know your history, the whole story not just one ‘Sides’ narrative.

Love and understanding to all should be the goal. Never again should we see such a horrible example of what we are capable of doing to each other. 75 years. It takes an entire generation to forget the horrors. Let’s try not too. The blast in Lebanon was a spooky reminder to get our act together and the timing poignant. Lest we forget.

31 ( +34 / -3 )

There is little question as to whether the US would have used a nuclear weapon in Europe. It would not have happened, and it served no military purpose - it was purely tactical, or strategic. The US wanted to run the world, and saw this as the best way to further its ambitions. Not to downplay decades of Japanese colonial and military atrocities throughout Asia, which is a different matter, and one for which Japan has yet to atone.

-27 ( +12 / -39 )

Rest in Peace to all the victims. Lets hope the world listens to the cries of the hibakusha : Never again should nuclear weapons becused on humanity.

21 ( +26 / -5 )

expatToday  10:12 am JST

decades of Japanese colonial and military atrocities throughout Asia, which is a different matter, and one for which Japan has yet to atone.

Just had to throw that in at this time right? Japan has atoned in countless ways, from Article 9 to reparations to Asian countries. You really think 93 countries would attend the A-bomb memorial if they thought Japan had not atoned? Only J-haters continue to parrot this mantra in order to continue the agenda.

-4 ( +21 / -25 )

Not a big fan of war, seems both sides suffer. To the individual involed it's a devestating moment. For governments it's a pathetic matter of pride.

21 ( +22 / -1 )

The Japanese victims must be remembered. So too the the victims of the Japanese.

20 ( +29 / -9 )

There is little question as to whether the US would have used a nuclear weapon in Europe.

Don't be so sure. Remember, by the time the US was ready to drop the bombs on Japan, Germany was already invaded, with the Russians in Berlin. The war against Germany had progressed far closer to its inevitable conclusion than the war with Japan was expected to be. There quite literally would have been no point. On the flip side, the Japanese home islands hadn't been touched by Allied ground forces. There was expected to be at LEAST another year of fighting if Operations Downfall and Coronet had gone off as planned. Additionally, the US high command believed (based on lessons learned from the Battle of Okinawa) that unlike in Germany, any invasion of Japan would be resisted not only by a still sizable military contingent, but by an incredibly hostile, highly indoctrinated, and suicidally loyal civilian population. There was many officers who truly believed that Japan would not be subjugated until literally everyone capable of holding a weapon in Japan was dead. Whether that was true or not isn't relevant: That was the assumption the US was operating under.

Additionally, we can certainly make arguments that the bombings were a moral crime, but as far as the legal rules of war in place at the time, it was a perfectly acceptable act of war. The international treaty most people quote regarding the atomic bombings is the Fourth Geneva Convention. This limited the ability of signatories to bomb civilian cities in time of war and according the 4GC, the atomic bombings would have constituted a war crime. However, people neglect to mention that the 4GC wasn't signed until 1949. And international law operates under the principle of "That which is not prohibited, is permitted". The laws of war most nations used during WWII was the Hague Convention of 1907. This convention governed the bombardment of civilian cities. But remember, this is 1907. You know what HADN'T yet happened in 1907? Bombardment from the air. The HC1907 regulated bombardment by sea- and land-based artillery. After the war, there were attempts to regulate aerial bombardment from the air in the same way, but no major power wanted to limit itself with new laws after seeing the power of strategy bombing by German zeppelins. As such, most nations simply applied the regulations for sea- and land-based bombardment to bombardment by air. Here is what HC1907 says about that:

You must give ample warning to the target to allow civilians to evacuate

The city must have military targets.

The city must be 'defended'.

That's it.

Let's look at those three rules vis-a-vis Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Leaflets were dropped over both cities, warning that they would be targets of aerial bombing. Condition 1 met.

Hiroshima had around 40,000 military personnel and was home to the HQs of numerous military units, including the GHQ of the Second General Army, which commanded 400,000 troops in Southern Kyushu. It also housed naval port and drydock facilities. Nagasaki had numerous military-industrial facilities, including Mitsubishi Shipyards and Steel and Arms Works. Both cities had military targets.

The definition of 'defended' was very vague. Most militaries considered a city 'defended' if it housed armed soldiers, which both cities did. Additionally, they were defended by heavy anti-aircraft units. The US used a definition of 'defended' that was VERY broad and actually included otherwise 'undefended' cities, so long as they were within range of Japanese airbases, meaning they were 'defended' by Japanese Air Defense units. Both cities met the definitions of 'defended'.

Were the bombings militarily necessary? Were they morally correct? Did they end the war sooner? Did they save lives? These are all things that can be debated.

The actual legality of the bombings, however, really isn't debatable.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

ReynardFox,

Excellent summary.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

expatToday  10:12 am JST

There is little question as to whether the US would have used a nuclear weapon in Europe. It would not have happened, and it served no military purpose 

You deliberately ignore the fact that Albert Einstein wrote a letter to FDR in 1939 warning him that Nazi Germany was making advance strides in nuclear fission that could lead to the development of a very powerful bomb. That letter prompted FDR to launch the Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bomb before Nazi Germany. There was no doubt FDR had Nazi Germany in mind for the use of the bomb.

Germany surrendered in MAY 1945 BEFORE the atomic bomb was ready for testing in JULY 1945. But the Pacific was still raging on and the U.S. had just won the Battle of Okinawa at a tremendous casualty cost.

Look: There was a WAR going on. Military leaders will use whatever weapon is available to defeat the enemy. Maybe YOU think the atomic bomb served no military purpose, but the German and Japanese military leaders AT THE TIME AND DURING WAR thought differently. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to develop it and use it against the enemy.

Unfortunately DURING WAR, civilian casualties are unavoidable.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

utorsa - The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

Oh, really? More disgusting than the Japanese imperial army marching into Nanking and slaughtering 200,000 unarmed men, women and children? I think your moral clock needs adjusting.

5 ( +22 / -17 )

Oh, really? More disgusting than the Japanese imperial army marching into Nanking and slaughtering 200,000 unarmed men, women and children? I think your moral clock needs adjusting.

Oh, really?

More disgusting than the millions of Irish people who had their culture taken from them, their land stolen, families slaughtered and forced to emigrate because of the actions of the British?

More disgusting than the Holocaust?

Than slavery?

My point is, it's not a competition. It doesn't mean one has more or less morals depending on what the topic is and what is discussed.

All these vile acts of inhumanity are disgusting. But today's topic is the use of nuclear weapons on this country.

3 ( +16 / -13 )

This is when Japan should be introspective, look in the mirror, and ask why instead of blaming.

4 ( +16 / -12 )

The Hiroshima mayor urges 'the international community to unite against serious threats to humanity'. A timely and pertinent statement. Would some crazy war-mongers not want to change their mind for the good of mankind?

Abe has said Japan is really 'committed to its 3 principles of not producing, possessing or allowing nuclear arms on its territory', one is doubtful. What is the huge US military base in Okinawa for?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

....realization of a world free of nuclear weapons and lasting peace,

The anti-war people conveniently overlook the fact there was a time in history when nuclear weapons DID NOT EXIST. That was pre-1945.

They also ignore the fact that the world prior to 1945 when there were no nuclear weapons was hardly a peaceful world and wars, including two World Wars were waged with conventional weapons.

Also we do not want to admit that nuclear weapons have promoted World Peace by making TOTAL WAR UNTHINKABLE and forcing nations to settle their disputes peacefully through dialog and negotiations. Otherwise the alternative would be mutual assured destruction.

Abolishing nuclear weapons will allow TOTAL WAR to be thinkable once again and waged with conventional weapons.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

What is the huge US military base in Okinawa for?

It's an insult to the memories of the nuclear attacks.

It's time the occupation of this wonderful land is brought to a close.

Send the occupiers home. The US military has inflicted enough pain on the people of Japan.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

Abolishing nuclear weapons will allow TOTAL WAR to be thinkable once again and waged with conventional weapons.

Abolishing capitalism will see an end to wars.

War is about resources, land grabs and expansionism. Imperialism is a by-product of capitalism.

Countries under the stewardships of the people, as opposed to the populists and exploiters will see the promotion of peace and true, international co-operation.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

maybe you should direct your anger at the IJA for their unprovoked attack on pearl harbour and using Japanese civilians as human shields and suicide bombers during the battle of Okinawa. over 150000 Okinawans died as a direct result of the IJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZNEHFpVI5E&t=375s

1 ( +16 / -15 )

The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

My grandfather and several of his schoolfriends joined the British 14th Army and fought in the battle of Imphal and Kohima. As a result of their experiences in the Burma campaign, their hatred of Japanese was complete. They would agree with this statement only because the atomic weapons deprived them of the satisfaction of personally killing Japanese with their bare hands.

That was the true nature of the Pacific theatre.

1 ( +15 / -14 )

I remember listening to a debate about the use of carpet bombing and the use of nuclear weapons in WW2. One very disturbing argument put forward by a German citizen was that in order to eradicate the foul ideologies that had taken hold in Germany and Japan and seen millions gassed and butchered, the allied victories had to be devastating and complete. The ideologies had to be shown to have completely failed.

While I can’t find it in myself to justify the use of a nuclear weapon on a civilian target ( it might be worth remembering that carpet bombing killed more ), this argument gave me pause for thought. Idiot neo-Nazis or rightwing lunatics doing cosplay at Yasukuni look insane because their heroes were failures.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

It's really hard to understand why the Abe government doesn't participate in the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, even though PM Shinzo Abe reiterated at Hiroshima that "it is Japan's duty ... to continue working toward the abolishment of nuclear weapons." 

Isn't it contradictory that Abe calls for the "abolishment of nuclear weapons" while seeking protection from the U.S. under its "nuclear umbrella"? 

If it's the U.S. that is conspiring to let that contradiction go free, how could U.S. President Donald Trump ask North Korean leader Kim Jong-un to denuclearize the country?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Not hard at all, Japan has them, just unofficially

It's really hard to understand why the Abe government doesn't participate in the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons

8 ( +9 / -1 )

They sound terrible, like the typically violent imperialists that made up the failed British empire.

Spoken like someone who has never experienced war, sheltered all his life, and protected by those who put their lives on the line.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

While the war crimes and other atrocities carried out by Imperial Japan were a million times worse than the atomic bombings, they remain among the worst war crimes in modern history, absolutely. Let's hope NONE of them are forgotten, or glossed over, or heaven forbid glorified, and do our best to never repeat them again.

-10 ( +11 / -21 )

Spoken like someone who has never experienced war, sheltered all his life, and protected by those who put their lives on the line.

Which wars did you fight in?

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Spoken like someone who has never experienced war, sheltered all his life, and protected by those who put their lives on the line.

Yes, yes, they keep banging on about their service for their countries, etc.

How we should be eternally greatful for the protections the great satan provides.

Doesn't excuse genocide.

Ever.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

Which wars did you fight in?

The culture wars, it seems.

8 ( +18 / -10 )

Thank goodness we created the first nuclear bombs. If it were the Japanese, the world would have to remember at least 100 bombings.

-6 ( +13 / -19 )

@ToastedHeretic, How we should be eternally greatful for the protections the great satan provides.

This speaks for itself.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

@Smithinjapan

...the war crimes and atrocities carried out by Imperial Japan were a million times worse...

Gotta love the western supremacists trying to minimise the senseless mass slaughter of innocent women and children.

1 ( +17 / -16 )

This speaks for itself.

If one is going to claim that mass atrocities, genocide and invasions of sovereign countries are somehow beneficial, one might be aptly monikered in such a ridiculous fashion. Hence the wonderfully retro "great satan".

We mark this very important anniversary by identifying the aggressors and their excuses.

The excuses they still peddle to this day.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

While I can’t find it in myself to justify the use of a nuclear weapon on a civilian target

@Jimizo, you deliberately overlook the fact that during World War II, the Second General Army and Chūgoku Regional Army was headquartered in Hiroshima, and the Army Marine Headquarters was located at Ujina port. The city also had large depots of military supplies, and was a key center for shipping.

As for Nagasaki, Nagasaki was an important industrial city, containing both plants of the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works, the Akunoura Engine Works, Mitsubishi Arms Plant, Mitsubishi Electric Shipyards, Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works, Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works, several other small factories, and most of the ports storage and trans-shipment facilities.

These connections with the Japanese war effort made Hiroshima and Nagasaki a major target for strategic bombing by the Allies during the war.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

asdfgtr: "Gotta love the western supremacists trying to minimise the senseless mass slaughter of innocent women and children."

I'm not trying to minimize anything. If you know my posting on this subject, I am one of the most adamant posters against the atomic bombings, and deride any and all who say it was justified and "saved lies" when it was nothing more than a political move to appease those that had invested in the Manhattan project, and to scare the Russians. On the contrary, it is YOU who minimizes the senseless mass slaughter of innocent women and children, but suggesting that pointing out the IJA's atrocities is minimizing. But hey, you probably deny the Rape of Nanjing, live vivisections carried out by Unit 731, and the more than 10 million other innocents murdered across Asia by Imperial Japan. Unlike you, I'm not saying one side is right in this.

-10 ( +13 / -23 )

Thank goodness we created the first nuclear bomb

”WE’.......Ah, another western racist has been outed.

Not necessarily. Given the choice of the western country of Germany and the western country of the US, I’m glad the US got the bomb before Germany.

I’d take Truman over Hitler.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

Tom Doley,

Many years ago I was with a Japanese veteran (Burma, Thailand area) of WWII. A 30-something Japanese doctor in our group said ‘We Japanese would never use nuclear weapons in war.’

The veteran nearly choked before he said, ‘If we had nuclear weapons every city on the west coast of the US would be gone. Manila would be gone. Singapore would be gone. The point of war is to win. Nuclear weapons would help Japan win.’

He backed up his claim by saying Japan launched surprise attacks at least twice (against Russia in 1904 and the US in 1941.) He said even Hitler declared war first, then attacked.

Most impressive gentleman.

2 ( +15 / -13 )

@smithinjapan,

....it is YOU who minimizes the senseless mass slaughter of innocent children, but suggesting that pointing out the IJA' s atrocities in minimising.

Never suggested such a thing. Your statement is a classic example of a straw man argument.

My original post stands: you are minimising the senseless mass slaughter of women and children. Your own words speak for themselves.

7 ( +18 / -11 )

While I can’t find it in myself to justify the use of a nuclear weapon on a civilian target

@Jimizo, you deliberately overlook the fact that during World War II, the Second General Army and Chūgoku Regional Army was headquartered in Hiroshima, and the Army Marine Headquarters was located at Ujina port. The city also had large depots of military supplies, and was a key center for shipping.

As for Nagasaki, Nagasaki was an important industrial city, containing both plants of the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works, the Akunoura Engine Works, Mitsubishi Arms Plant, Mitsubishi Electric Shipyards, Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works, Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works, several other small factories, and most of the ports storage and trans-shipment facilities. 

These connections with the Japanese war effort made Hiroshima and Nagasaki a major target for strategic bombing by the Allies during the war.

Splitting hairs. When you drop something with the power and blast radius ( not to mention ensuing radiation ) of a nuclear weapon on a densely populated city, you are hitting a civilian target. This would not be the same as unintended deaths occurring from strategically bombing military facilities.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

It wasn't senses, Japan had a choice, surrender but they chose to prepare every woman and child to defend the home land. That would have cost countless lives on both sides way more then the victims of a nuclear bomb. It's not in anyway cool but the alternative was young Americans shooting even younger Japanese in droves. At the time what other solution was there? The madness had to stop.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Miles Teg

This is when Japan should be introspective, look in the mirror, and ask why instead of blaming.

Japan is not blaming. It is asking for rememberence so that other human beings are not subjected to such annihilation again.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Cricky: "That would have cost countless lives on both sides way more then the victims of a nuclear bomb."

Prove it. Prove that it would have cost one, and I'm not talking in the "Proof of god is all around us" lack of proof type way, I want concrete proof. Because otherwise we are just dealing in hypotheticals to justify mass murder. What we CAN say for a fact is that hundreds of thousands died as a result of the bombing. Japan was on the ropes, and no one supported their war of attrition. They could have been defeated without the bombs -- as I said, it was just politics and money. The "lives saved" argument was simply a knee-jerk justification with zero proof.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

asdfgtr: "Your statement is a classic example of a straw man argument."

You see? there you go again. You clearly don't even know what a straw man argument is, but you do know what deflection is. And yes, you did minimize Imperial Japan's role in this, and you continue to do so, making the deaths of all these innocents by the bombings meaningless.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

As is the case with many historical events, there are different views and opinions by historians regarding the surrender of Japan following the use of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Most of the controversy arises from the issue of the Japanese Emperor and whether or not he would maintain power (or be hung) following a surrender. But also, the struggle within the Japanese government itself on agreeing with the terms of surrender regarding the Soviet invasion.

That said, in MY opinion, the bombings made it easier for the Japanese government to surrender BEFORE the Soviets invaded mainland Japan and for the Americans, as they wanted a quick end to the war to avoid a "German style break-up" of the country where the Soviets would occupy Hokkaido and even China would occupy some parts.

So the Americans wanted to end the war on THEIR terms quickly and not allow time for the Soviets to invade in which they would have a say in the post-war era. Had the US not dropped the bombs, its likely that the Japanese government would have had to surrender to the Soviets, and not the Americans (or perhaps both) and that may have led to a Communist takeover, something the Japanese Government wanted to avoid. In other words, they preferred to surrender to the US, not Stalin.

That said, the bombing served both the interests of the US AND the Japanese government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It speaks volumes to the 'character' of certain individuals that they cannot pay respects to the dead at Hiroshima, without bringing in irrelevant topics and digs at Japan.

Have some of you no sense of decency? Show some respect to these people, who had absolutely nothing to do with wartime atrocities.

RIP to those who died on that terrible day.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Cricky: "That would have cost countless lives on both sides more then the victims of a nuclear bomb."

Smithinjapan: Prove it. Prove that it would have cost one, 

Smith, thats an empty and absurd demand. Prove that it wouldnt have. See how it works?

But, given the fanatical japanese resistance encountered by the US on Iwo Jima, Okinawa (where the japanese military even forced local civilians to commit suicide en masse, and murdered those who refused) etc, and given that the japanese govt was training civilians to repel the US and promising the US soldiers would be met by a million armed and fanatical civilians on the beaches, and given that, in case the US was under any illusions as to the lengths the japanese would go to to kill them, the kamikazes were doing their best to crash their planes into American ships, the faxts are overwhelming that the atomic bombings saved countless japanese lives.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

cannot pay respects to the dead at Hiroshima, without bringing in irrelevant topics and digs at Japan.

well maybe you should tell that too the people that continue to make out as if Japan was the sole victim.

Facts is the IJA slaughtered millions of Asian civilians during WW2 , far more than all the casualties of the Japanese and Allies in the pacific combined. Apart from the Nazis the IJA had no equal in their brutality towards civilians they looked at as a lower forms of human life. Do people prey for the victims of the IJA while at Hiroshima memorial? I would like to think they prey for all victims of WW2 both Japanese and the victims of Japanese aggression.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

@smithinjapan,

But hey, you probably deny the Rape of Nanjing, live vivisection....

Never made any such denials. Your statement is a classic example of a straw man argument.

And yes, you did minimize Imperial Japan's role in this, and you continue to do so, making the deaths of all these innocents by the bombings meaningless.

Nope. There has been no minimisation from me. Another facile straw man argument. You clearly don't even know what a straw man argument is.

Your words speak for themselves:

...the war crimes carried out by Japan were a million times worse...

10 ( +17 / -7 )

the faxts are overwhelming that the atomic bombings saved countless japanese lives.

This is pushed out again and again, every year. It is not a fact. It is guesswork, at the very most. It is used by a nation that has committed unspeakable crimes across Asia, the Americas, the Middle East, Africa and of course, against it's own peoples.

Nobody is denying that imperial Japan commited terrible war crimes, either. But they also took on two of the most dangerous and blood-soaked empires - the British and the soon to be number one (in terms of atrocities) the US.

The hypocrisy, at this time of year and on this day, is stunning.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

conservative estimates that Japan's invasion of Asia claimed around 10 million lives most of them civilians.

people still think the pacific war started with pearl harbour. it actually started the the IJA invasion of China in 1931. 13yrs of occupational brutality resulted in the most lives lost outside of European eastern front.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

@wtfjapan,

Sorry dude, but the Americans had been raping and pillaging throughout the Asia/Pacific region well before 1931. I suggest learning about the Philippine genocide and a the Boxer Rebellion.

Conservative estimates are that America's global invasions have claimed over 50 million lives most of them civilians.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

My grandfather and several of his schoolfriends joined the British 14th Army and fought in the battle of Imphal and Kohima. As a result of their experiences in the Burma campaign, their hatred of Japanese was complete. They would agree with this statement only because the atomic weapons deprived them of the satisfaction of personally killing Japanese with their bare hands.

Jesus, sounds psychopathic. Glad we don't have those types around today, actually wait nah we do.. I'd be bitter too if I were a Brit in the Pacific during WW2, they got their asses handed to them by the Japanese. If it weren't for the Aussies and Kiwis, Britain's humiliating losses there would have been dozens of times worse, not that the Brits or Yanks ever gave the ANZ boys any credit though, a slight that still hasn't been forgiven. Even in Europe it was pretty much only the Soviets doing the actual fighting yet the history we're taught reads as if only the Brits made any sacrifices.

14 ( +19 / -5 )

It speaks volumes to the 'character' of certain individuals that they cannot pay respects to the dead at Hiroshima, without bringing in irrelevant topics and digs at Japan.

Not surprising at all, pretty much all us Anglos were brought up on the heroic deeds and sacrifices of our countrymen in WW1 and WW2, which were incredible and hard to comprehend in today's pampered world. Due to this, all us Anglos have a superiority complex, you can deny it as much as you want but we know it to be true.

Then they come to Japan thinking they're better than everyone else but find themselves at the bottom of society and not respected as they think they should be and in fact often experience discrimination like minorities experience in their home countries. The cognitive dissonance caused by this contradiction between reality and their expectations causes bitterness to levels unseen anywhere else. It's bitter but it's a taste of our medicine.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Nobody is denying that imperial Japan commited terrible war crimes, either. But they also took on two of the most dangerous and blood-soaked empires - the British and the soon to be number one (in terms of atrocities) the US

Japan itself created a blood-soaked empire. One defence used by the apologists for Japan’s brutal colonization is that they were imitating the British. They became a blood-soaked empire running up a massive death count in an incredibly short time. They out-brutalized the Brits.

I think it would be better to use ‘replace’ rather than ‘take on’ here. You could argue that the US put an end to Japan’s brutal imperialism.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

Conservative estimates are that America's global invasions have claimed over 50 million lives most of them civilians.

What constitutes ‘invasion’ here and what are these sources?

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

They were little more than a brutal and cynical live human experiment on women and children. The depravity and racism of the US government and military is apparent from Harry Truman's demented giggling prior to his announcement of the mass murders at Hiroshima:

Interesting. I wonder how you feel about the cowardly war crimes committed by the IJA against e.g. POWs under Japanese control? You know they starved, overworked, toyed with the POWs using swords and guns: murdering captured, enlisted men, as well as civilian women and children? Brutal, cynical live human experiments of depravity and racism, hmm? How about the infamous Nanjing massacre? Mass rape of over 20,000 women and girls; horrific murders of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings: Brutal, cynical live human experiments of depravity and racism, hmm?

Again I say, the two bombs dropped on Japan were an atrocity, however, they only served to make people like you and rest of Japan FORGET the brutality and depravity served by the IJA against millions of other men, women, and children.

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

people like you and rest of Japan FORGET the brutality and depravity served by the IJA against millions of other men, women, and children.

Nobody has forgotten it.

However, this is the anniversary of the Hiroshima genocidal attack. From one bloodthirsty set of imperialists on another.

If nuclear weapons had been used on the US, instead, we'd rightly be remembering that attack.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

This. The very first sentence in this comments section.

The USA, blinded by their superiority complexes and the fact that they got out of WWII as one of the world,s superpowers, never wanted to accept and realize that what they did, 75 years ago, was one of the most disgusting acts in the history of mankind.

9 ( +18 / -9 )

maybe you should direct your anger at the IJA for their unprovoked attack on pearl harbour and using Japanese civilians as human shields and suicide bombers during the battle of Okinawa. over 150000 Okinawans died as a direct result of the IJA

Ah, so because Japan were aggressors in WW2, they should take responsibility for being nuked? The atomic bomb was completed in 1945, no one on Earth knew it existed until it was used against Japan, but by your logic Japan should have known that if they started a war they would be destroyed by a yet-undiscovered weapon?

So say if the US went into Iraq and then the entire US suddenly got wiped off the Earth by a yet undiscovered weapon, you'd still say well the US was the aggressor so those now extinct dopes should have been prepared for total extinction? How little respect do you have for fellow human beings and human life?

7 ( +12 / -5 )

The USA, blinded by their superiority complexes and the fact that they got out of WWII as one of the world,s superpowers, never wanted to accept and realize that what they did, 75 years ago, was one of the most disgusting acts in the history of mankind.

oh I think the 6 million jews slaughter by the Nazis might have a different opinion.

these are the spoils of war, do you think Japan would have been any different or even Hitler if they had won their wars!?. Im certainly no fan of American aggression, but I know for sure the world would be a far worse off place if either Hilter or Japan had won, wed all be second class slaves by now.

As the saying goes dont start a fight unless you really think of the consequences if you lose

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Life is a precious gift. Peace is the way. Long live peace.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

these are the spoils of war, do you think Japan would have been any different or even Hitler if they had won their wars!?

Absolutely not...lol. Look at how they treated their conquered nations, look at what these uyoku nuts and other believe. Japan got to keep their Emperor, their language, their ministry of defense, their sovereignty, their religion and even help rebuilding their nation, the victors even provide for their defense. Had it been the other way around, every animal street mountain in Alaska would of been changed to Japanese, the US military some step child for Japan and renamed.."sons of Japan" or some other mickey mouse name and we would of been given a complete wash. Look what they did to Singapore Hong Kong, Guam, PI, Vietnam etc.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Its not like they performed a sneak attack and flew the enola over Hiroshima without warning. Truman gave them several warning and chances and even named the weapon they would use. Japan still wanted a conditional surrender out of "pride" and other non sense and refused. After bomb #2, Hirohito decided he better get with the program and thus we have the picture on the other article with Halsey and other US heros that secured our freedom.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Ah, early August in Japan. And the argument rolls on.

I lived in Japan for a decade. My wife is Japanese. My children identify as Japanese and American. I speak and read Japanese. I really like my in laws. I love my nieces and nephews who live in Japan. I have a deep commitment for and love for Japan and the Japanese people.

I also have a MA in Japanese history. I took a seminar titled Hiroshima and Nagasaki: a Historiographical Survey, taught by a pre-eminent American modern Japanese historian. Two of the people in that seminar have gone on to become historians of Japan. Once recently released well-received a book on Japan and WWII.

You might say I kinda know what I'm talking about. You might also say I care alot about Japan. So here's the thing:

The atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are complicated. There is no easy answer whether they were right and wrong, Of course they were wrong. And yet...and yet there are reasons why they happened, and those reasons muddy things a lot.

And that is the tragedy.

I urge you all to resist facile pronouncement and blithe appeals to "the historical record." I urge you all to study the event, really study it. 'Cause it's that important.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

I urge you all to resist facile pronouncement and blithe appeals to "the historical record." I urge you all to study the event, really study it. 'Cause it's that important.

I like history, because just like constants used by engineers, its reliable. It is what it is, it cant be changed. It happened. I never cared much about WW2 history, even having served in the US military until I came to Japan. Never have I heard so much about war and other mess until I came here. I learned about all the things Japan did, and what sacrifices my country had to do , in order that we may be free. Freedom is the important concept here, not revisionist speak, neo fascism apologies, or other make everybody feel good intangible crap.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Longtermer

Thanks for you thoughts. I have encountered some Japanese scholars and intellectuals who share some of your feelings; namely, irony of bombs. Or rather, the irony that the bombs represent: defeat, subjugation. Victimhood. And yet, with defeat and occupation, Japan partly rid itself of a particularly aggressive, and let's face it, insane form of nationalism, and having shed that albatros, grew and prospered as Japan had never prospered.

Within the American dominated international system.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

In the absence of the atomic bombings, it would have been necessary to invade mainland Japan.

Japan would also have been invaded by the Russians, which, at best, would have resulted in the partition of Japan in the mould of Germany and Korea, and this may even have brought the West into armed conflict with the Russians. It is even conceivable that the Russians Communists would have successfully dominated the Japanese archipelago while Uncle Sam was still fighting in the Pacific islands and John Bull in Malaya.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Study the history indeed.

No one wanted to use the atomic bomb with positive attitude.

The few who decided felt it was a hard move.

Too easy to criticize with hindsight.

To show you that not using the bombs would have been a critical error, please tell us estimates of the casualties over time without use of the atomic bombs.

It probably resulted in the development of peace because then everyone knows now there is no limit to mass killing.

Nowadays, one bomb could probably kill half of life on Earth (100MT or more).

My prayer to the victims and wish that nationalism to never lead a military government.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Life is a precious gift. Peace is the way. Long live peace.

totally agree, just those that think they've been done wrong should first atone for the wrongs they've done on others before they play the victim

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The two atomic bombs were unnecessary as Japan was already defeated. Any person with military background would know that an invasion was unnecessary. Who would kill innocent people. Even numerous US top brass stated the bombs were unnecessary and cruel. In the last 75 years since the bombings, the USA has been all over the world and killed a lot of people like Iraq and the wmd debacle. Read your history books written by legitimate sources and stop watching fake news media. RIP to the Japanese dead and my sincere apology to those that survived.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

The two atomic bombs were unnecessary as Japan was already defeated.

Agreed. The only question which remained was “Who would be the victor - Russian or American?”

Do you have a problem with Americans?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Bungle many on here do it seems , some openly show there hatred , just read their posts they are glaringly obvious and not ashamed to show themselves.

I have been to Hiroshima around this time of year too but not this year, it is a reminder to many , think before they act.

Thankfully America helped the world win that war.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

MilesTegToday  12:15 pm JST

This is when Japan should be introspective, look in the mirror, and ask why instead of blaming.

Finally you said what should have been said long time ago instead of all the memorials which paint Japan as some sort of peace loving victim AGAIN.

Cause and effect!!!

And before people here think that I am wrong. Don't doubt for a second that given the opportunity, Japan would have dropped a nuke on US without hesitation, just like their attack on Pearl Harbour... They were already sending Balloon bombs to North America using the jet stream so next step would have been to send some nuke or a dirty bomb...

1 ( +5 / -4 )

It's acts like this that serve as a salient reminder that we are just an 'advanced breed of monkey' to quote Stephen Hawkins.

So much more barbaric and wantonly destructive than anything before or since, underpinned by a racist staining on perspective and restraint that justified their decision.

To me, this is a great stain on the US; a black heart moment that marks the country irreversibly as a mass murdering state. I get the context, I know the stories. Both of my Grandfathers fought the Japanese in that war.

But to me, that's just an unforgivable decision.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

A solemn day indeed, but lets just remember that, regardless of peoples thoughts on the matter of nuclear weapons, they do exist and you cant put the genie back in the bottle. Also there is a certain argument that the threat of MAD has stopped anyone else from using one since!

Its an ambitious and righteous goal to be rid of them, but it is also frankly a naive and pointless endeavour. The sad reality is that those who possess them will unlikely ever be rid of them due to the inherent mistrust of their opposite numbers in doing the same.

A parallel can be drawn here with Smallpox, the world rid themselves of that cruel disease but when the last stocks were due to be destroyed both the US and Russia refused and kept samples, citing the precedence of the other to do the same. So be under no illusion that the same will happen with nuclear weapons.

To date the only country that has willingly disposed of it technology and armaments is South Africa, but then they never tested or operated the capability and that took years to dismantle! It will be a lot harder to convince the nuclear powers that be that this is the right way to go about it, especially with the national prestige and influence such weapons bring to the table. Look at North Korea, as soon as they had them the world took note, and regimes like that wont blink and eyelid at the though of keeping them.

Ambitious to rid yes, but doomed to failure I'm afraid.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

To me, this is a great stain on the US; a black heart moment that marks the country irreversibly as a mass murdering state. I get the context, I know the stories. Both of my Grandfathers fought the Japanese in that war.

You get the context? So what is it?

How about the context of the "Next day of reign"? Think about it. When the Japanese conquered Singapore, and Gen Yamashita forced the useless Brit General to surrender, what happened the next day? Did the Japanese have the Singaporeans best interest at heart? Did they have a progressive agenda for the locals? Put yourself in that moment. I have lived in "pacifist" Japan, and its scary to think about, but you get things figured out; I know what they did. The kempitai went on a rampage of murder and terror, thats what they did. Same thing in Hong Kong. Phillipines. Guam.

Great stain? When the USS had the Japan delegation on the USS Missouri sign the unconditional surrender, was their next day moment a campaign of terror?

Thats the context of the moment and history.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

It amazes me being an Aussie and having a father that fought in WW2 that everyone is commenting about the Japanese treatment of the enemy in WW2. I certainly apposed the use of the atomic bombs against the Japanese. The war was already won by then.

The stories that are held back are the way the Japanese were treated by the Australian forces. I spoke to a WW2 Aussie digger a few years back and we were talking about the war and he told me that there are many stories about the way the Japanese treated the Aussie soldiers but very few with regards the way the Japanese were treated. There are always 2 sides to every story. At the end of the day the facts are that every country should have by now learned from their mistakes from this war and moved together to creating a humanitarian acceptance of every country’s economic situation and future.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I imagine I'm a little boy on that day. I'm walking to school that morning. Suddenly I see a flash and look up to see the exploding atom bomb. Of course, I have no idea what it is. Then a deafening shock wave slams me to the ground. But the pain is short lived because in seconds the temperature on the ground rises to 5,000 degrees F, and I am vaporized.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A solemn day indeed...

I have never one time heard any speaker or leader, at any of these events, apologize for Japans war time aggression. Agreed those bombs were profound, but I hit a wall trying to understand the lack of reciprocity or accountability, and what the events are really about, because in my culture, transparency of what is being communicated would be expected. Perhaps its a kuki yomu thing that only Japanese can understand.

Years ago there was a Japanese documentary about one of the Enola pilots, who came to Hiroshima and a crying and fitful Japanese couple asked him to apologize. His reply was basically no, unless you apologize for Pearl. Thats where the cultures and context are different, because he will never apologize; his country did nothing wrong, or we enter a rabbit hole of "The IJN hated the IJA so that excuses this or that. Hirohito didnt know anything, so Tojo took the rope. Documents prove otherwise. So some here seem to take the path of least resistance and blame monster America, as if America just dropped the bombs to conquer Japan, unprovoked.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Ironically, loads of Japanese love the USA and their culture, after visiting the museum in Hiroshima I really can't understand why. Had my country of birth been the target of those horrible bombs made by the Americans we would certainly hate them until now. I can't understand the Japanese sometimes.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Agreed those bombs were profound, but I hit a wall trying to understand the lack of reciprocity or accountability

Well apart from the executions of guys like Tojo and all the other top brass (execution = high stakes accountability in my eyes), try starting with the fact that Douglas MacAthur arranged for Hirohito to be completely absolved of any responsibility at all. None. Soooo, if Hirohito isn't responsible, who is? Your average punter in the street caught up in an era of Nationalistic Military madness? No way, given that the other option is death.

Subsequent Japanese governments have atoned in all manner of ways for what their forefathers did. Have the Americans? I think your example of the Enola Gay pilot beautifully frames where they are on that score.

Japan were already ground down to the nub when the Americans delayed the way long enough to test their new weapons. But they went ahead with 2 live science experiments anyway.

That's just shameful.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Japan were already ground down to the nub when the Americans delayed the way long enough to test their new weapons. But they went ahead with 2 live science experiments anyway.

That's just shameful.

No whats shameful was Hirohitos lack of compassion for his countrymen and women and not agreeing to an unconditional surrender even after, as you put it, ground down to a nub and was instructing every able mad woman and child to fight off them evil Americans with bamboo sticks. That fanatical view later got a wash because Hirohito was used as the voice of Mac and the people obeyed in order to put the country back together. I think Mac and team did a good job in that regard.

I can't understand the Japanese sometimes.

Its part of the culture. When the samurai fought each other, and one tribe was defeated, the new shogun took over the peasants of that territory and they got on with their lives in servitude to the new master. Also, the warrior culture was indoctrinated into them so much that they were exhausted but surprised to see how different and kind the victors were. Thats as far as I can get with it, others can share their views. A kind of thank you for saving us from ourselves...kind of thing?

As the historical record shows, six of the seven US WWII five star officers concluded that the nuking of hundreds of thousands of civilians was unnecessary. 

7 five star officers? There is only one 5 star Gen of the Army. Who are you talking about? Allied commanders?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Look what they did to Singapore Hong Kong, Guam, PI, Vietnam etc.

Forgot to add Taiwan to your list?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Splitting hairs. When you drop something with the power and blast radius ( not to mention ensuing radiation ) of a nuclear weapon on a densely populated city, you are hitting a civilian target. This would not be the same as unintended deaths occurring from strategically bombing military facilities.

Remember, Jimizo, that the conventional bombing of Tokyo killed more civilians than either atomic bomb. So the idea that if Hiroshima and Nagasaki has been subjected to conventional, incendiary bombardment, they would have sustained less civilian casualties is a very tenuous assertion, at best. One that isn’t really backed up by evidence. And as I stated in my post at the top of this thread, according to the rules of war at the time, the size and number of military targets and the number of possible civilian casualties was irrelevant with respect to a given bombardment’s legality. The idea you are referring to is called “proportionality”, which is the idea that civilian casualties must be in proportion to the city’s military significance. However, the concept of proportionality was not codified into the laws of warfare until the Fourth Geneva Convention in 1949. Again, I’m not making a moral judgment on the act, but it’s legality at the time is basically indisputable.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

No whats shameful....

Make no mistake, it is completely shameful.

Hirohitos... was instructing every able mad woman and child to fight off them evil Americans with bamboo sticks.

Just curious, do have any actual evidence of him saying this? I'd like to see it, it would be useful. The IJA obviously did with the assistance of the Kenpeitai, but did the Emperor? I suspect the answer will be no, but happy to be corrected.

That fanatical view later got a wash because Hirohito was used as the voice of Mac and the people obeyed in order to put the country back together. I think Mac and team did a good job in that regard.

Staying on track with the original argument, you can't have it both ways on this count. You can't complain of a lack of 'reciprocity of accountability' by the contemporary Japanese, when the Emperor, who you are clearly (and rightly) implicating for his role in the war gets completely absolved by MacArthur and the occupational forces post surrender.

And to be honest, I don't really get this strange desire to try to drill into the contemporary Japanese for a sense of accountability for what their forbears did 80 years ago. I'm never looking for that when I meet German people, just like I don't look for it in American people I meet for the vulgar act of their forbears using Atomic bombs twice and dropping napalm all over Japanese cities to burn everyone to cinders in WW2.

Don't forget, Robert Macnamara very famously said they would have been tried as war criminals for those acts, had they lost the war. Assuming you are American, do you feel you should apologise for that?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

El RataAug. 6  09:53 pm JST

Ironically, loads of Japanese love the USA and their culture, after visiting the museum in Hiroshima I really can't understand why. Had my country of birth been the target of those horrible bombs made by the Americans we would certainly hate them until now. I can't understand the Japanese sometimes.

During the summer of 1945, the Japanese were waiting for the U.S. to invade the homeland and prepared for it. A popular Japanese military slogan was, "The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly."

Japan, as a nation, was willing to lose one hundred million civilian people.

Also, the Soviet Union was preparing to invade Hokkaido in August 1945.

Eventually Japan would have surrendered, but not after prolonged fighting, complete destruction of the country and losing hundred million civilians.

Postwar Japan would have been split in two countries with North Japan under Soviet domination, and South Japan under American jurisdiction....not unlike the postwar East/West Germany and North/South Korea.

(Are there anyone here prefer this outcome and believe Japan would be a better country compared to what actually happened?)

But the atomic bombs shocked the Imperial Japanese military leaders to permit surrender and save Japan from that fate. One hundred million Japanese civilians did not die. Japan was not totally destroyed and split into two countries with a communist North Japan. The American occupying forces introduced Postwar Japan to democracy and helped rebuild the country and the industries, enabling Japan to economically prosper within 20 years (in comparison to East Germany and North Korea). Anyone who attended the 1964 Tokyo Olympics would not have recognized the changes in Japan compared to 20 years earlier.

Japan would not be the country it is today had the U.S. forego the use of the atomic bomb and opted to invade Japan instead.

For that, many Japanese, especially those who lived during the war and survived, were grateful to the Americans for saving them from a far worse fate.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"In the United States the hatred for the Japanese far exceeded that of the hatred for the Germans; racism aside, the Japanese had dared to bomb Americans on American territory. Days after the bombings a Gallup poll found that 85 percent of Americans approved of the attacks, and another survey, made after the war, indicated that 23 percent wished that more such weapons had been dropped before the Japanese surrender.

...

Lt. Gen. Leslie Groves, dismissed reports of dangerous radiation as propaganda. “I think our best answer to anyone who doubts this is that we did not start the war, and if they don’t like the way we ended it, to remember who started it.” ... Called to testify before a Senate committee on atomic energy, he resorted to claiming that radiation poisoning “is a very pleasant way to die.”

...

After the United States dropped the atomic bombs, Hersey wrote that if civilization was to mean anything, people had to acknowledge the humanity of their enemies. As the months passed he realized that this was the element still lacking in descriptions of the devastation. It was a failing of journalism, and an opportunity for him. With the backing of The New Yorker — specifically of the magazine’s founder and editor, Harold Ross, and his colleague William Shawn — he flew in early 1946 to China, and from there found his way into Japan, where he managed to obtain permission to visit Hiroshima. He was there for two weeks before returning to New York to escape the censors and beginning to write. The result was an austere, 30,000-word reportorial masterpiece that described the experiences of six survivors of the atomic attack.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/books/review/fallout-hiroshima-hersey-lesley-m-m-blume.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

1 ( +2 / -1 )

During the summer of 1945, the Japanese were waiting for the U.S. to invade the homeland and prepared for it. A popular Japanese military slogan was, "The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly."

Japan, as a nation, was willing to lose one hundred million civilian people.

This concept gets lost in the sauce of all the apologist narratives, who like to muddy the waters with cherry picked excerpts of this and that, leaving out the context of the whole event and coloring the picture with their own views, for whatever reason. Im not interested in that, just historical facts and events,that remain constant no matter the year or month.. A long residence in Japan will make the picture more clearer and even discussions with Japanese who in the presence of foreigners will speak freely on the subject. I once met an older man who was alive during that time and he boldly told me that Hirohito knew everything. He had witnessed the evolution of war occupation reconstruction and later revisionism.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Oddly, a long residence and a lifetime interest in Japan will not only highlight apologists for the imperialist expansion, but it brings the apologists for genocide out from under the stones they've been hiding under. This phenomena can be observed every August and they can be heard making a high pitched, screeching racket for a few days.

After that, it's all back to the usual scratching around.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oddly, a long residence and a lifetime interest in Japan will not only highlight apologists for the imperialist expansion, but it brings the apologists for genocide out from under the stones they've been hiding under. This phenomena can be observed every August and they can be heard making a high pitched, screeching racket for a few days.

After that, it's all back to the usual scratching around.

Interesting logic; I had to re read that post. I thought it was referring to green buses with nuts and loud speakers who every August, along side TV documentaries color the narrative of victimhood Japan and excuse imperialist ichiko yamato expansionism, but instead your referring to us "American monsters"?

Nice attempt to try and flip the script, I almost was fooled by it...:-)

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@expat, 

Again, people forget or deliberately choose to ignore (for political and emotional reasons), that FDR authorized the Manhattan Project NOT with the Japan in mind, but Nazi Germany.  Albert Einstein wrote to FDR in 1939 warning that the Germans were making advances in nuclear fission that could lead to the development of a very powerful bomb.  Einstein also urged the United States to stockpile uranium ore and begin work on its own atomic bomb.

The implication was clear: If Hitler was successful he would not hesitate to use the bomb, and that Germany must not be allowed to develop the atomic bomb first.  

Fortunately Germany did not succeed.

Germany surrendered in May 1945 before the U.S. atomic bomb was ready for testing on 16 July 1945. But the war in the Pacific was still raging on, so the intended target was changed from Germany to Japan. It had nothing to do with racism.

As for General Groves' comments, one has to understand AT THAT TIME IN 1945, the military considered the atomic bomb as a new type of tactical weapon, to be used in the same manner as a conventional bomb.....and used against the enemy without reservation. The properties of radiation was not fully understood until AFTER the war when scientists and doctors were allowed into Hiroshima and Nagasaki to inspect the city and survivors.

Now.....many of you good posters consider the U.S. as war criminals for using the atomic bomb. *Would you all feel the same toward Germany or Japan if they developed the atomic bomb first and used it against the Americans? *

The fact, is Germany and Japan WERE working on developing the atomic bomb at the same time as the U.S. and their military leaders had the same intent to use it against the enemy as soon as it was made available.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

if Germany would of had that technology ready, they would of used it out of desperation, and probably it would of been a game changer, with their V2 rockets and jet engine innovations. Their intentions, just like Japans, would of been exponentially more than the USA; they would of used it to keep in play their fascist paradigms and later to defeat and occupy the USA and Britain, while the US and allies wanted to end the war.

Japan was just shadowing Germany, but they would of done the same.

Halwick makes an excellent point; if Japan or Germany used it, would it be an atrocity? Atrocity or not, its who got it developed first and won that really matters.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

but instead your referring to us "American monsters"?

Actually, was thinking more along the lines of ciccadas.

And I don't think Americans are monsters.

I will call out hypocrites, apologists and those who try to advance the US imperialist agenda.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Halwick makes an excellent point; if Japan or Germany used it, would it be an atrocity?

Of course it would. What an odd question.

But apologists for genocide can muddy the waters and continue for the next 75 years to justify the actions of their imperialist nations, if it makes them feel good.

Just because the US and Britain ('cos they're the only participants, apparently) "won", doesn't automatically make them the "good guys".

Nobody came out of the war smelling of roses.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hiroshima is a great city. It has recovered well. I believe the recovery to be a great victory for Japan and a show of great strength. How strong these wonderful Japanese hosts people are.

For I am just a guest of the same aggressor.

We will conspire to find new ways to say people matter.

This conspiracy will be bold.

Everyone will dance at wholly inappropriate times.

They will burst out singing non-patriotic songs.

*And the not-so-secret password will be *Peace.”

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan's military did their best to prevent a surrender.

The Kyūjō incident (宮城事件, **Kyūjō Jiken)** was an attempted military coup d'état in the Empire of Japan at the end of the Second World War. It happened on the night of 14–15 August 1945, just before the announcement of Japan's surrender to the Allies. The coup was attempted by the Staff Office of the Ministry of War of Japan and many from the Imperial Guard to stop the move to surrender.

The officers murdered Lieutenant General Takeshi Mori of the First Imperial Guards Division and attempted to counterfeit an order to the effect of occupying the Tokyo Imperial Palace (Kyūjō). They attempted to place the Emperor under house arrest, using the 2nd Brigade Imperial Guard Infantry. They failed to persuade the Eastern District Army and the high command of the Imperial Japanese Army to move forward with the action. Due to their failure to convince the remaining army to oust the Imperial House of Japan, they performed ritual suicide. As a result, the communiqué of the intent for a Japanese surrender continued as planned.

The Japan's military who thought that the wind of god is with them, started the attack on countries in Asia and the nukes finished it. Like a I said before Cause and effect now live with the choices made by people who thought they can't possibly lose because they are superior and we got a reminder of that mentality from Mr. Tarō Asō just a few weeks ago...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

*Now.....many of you good posters consider the U.S. as war criminals for using the atomic bomb. Would you all feel the same toward Germany or Japan if they developed the atomic bomb first and used it against the Americans?

Sure would, but it's a moot point, because they didn't. Only 1 country has the dubious distinction of using Atomic weapons on its fellow man.

It gets dressed up in all kinds of ways and justified by all kinds of means, but time begins to offer a salient perspective on these matters. Post Modernist distrust of the meta narratives began to reject and question this perspective, and we have shifted considerably more since then.

A popular Japanese military slogan was, "****The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly."

Right. A military slogan. How many ordinary Japanese civilians do you think really wanted this outcome? How many Japanese citizens do you think were completely cognisant of the fact that this kind of propaganda was being generated by a hard core fanatical nationalist section of the military that controlled the country at this time? None? Some? Most?

I'd say they were more that happy to be relieved of this burden long before Little Boy was ejected from the Enola Gay. The Japanese had already begun a discourse of peace after all.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

A popular Japanese military slogan was, "*****The sooner the Americans come, the better...One hundred million die proudly."*

Right. A military slogan

How many more apologist excuses are you going to make? Several of the posters here have presented facts from history that you continue to deny. You defend Hirohito now another nonsensical argument that the Japanese civilian population were free to disobey their leaders, even though every institution, radio broadcast and academia was controlled or influenced by the state? Being that Singaporeans, who were not even Japanese, were beat for not bowing to their masters, what do you think happened to Japanese who even dared considered bucking the conformity? Strange kook aid your drinking, dude.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

utorsa

The nuking of Hiroshima and then Nagasaki were two of the most disgusting and cowardly war crimes ever committed.

As compared to what? Can you give us a list of war acts that you find less disgusting and courageous?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ha! This is pretty funny. You are all over the place here LongTermer and you aren't reading the posts carefully enough. Have you just taken the exact gist of my previous post and tried to repackage it as your own argument, or did you just not read it properly? Come on man, at least put in some effort here.

For example:

You defend Hirohito 

No. I wrote; when the Emperor, who you are clearly (and rightly) implicating for his role in the war gets completely absolved by MacArthur and the occupational forces post surrender.

Did you miss that first time? It is perfectly clear what my position on Hirohito's place in the war is. He was complicit, condoning and involved. Doesn't it say that? Read it again.

Then;

now another nonsensical argument that the Japanese civilian population were free to disobey their leaders, even though every institution, radio broadcast and academia was controlled or influenced by the state? 

That is literally the exact opposite of what I posted above. The exact opposite! Or are you just trying to be funny? Read it again.

How many more apologist excuses are you going to make?

You throw twee little labels around because perhaps you think they sound cool. Apologist. Hmmm. I am measured, balanced and open minded and unlike you I try to see the grey in history because nothing is ever black and white. I have come to realise that the meta narrative constructed by the US that I learnt growing up about the Atomic Bombing of Japan, to wit; that it was a necessary evil and would spare lives and end the war quickly etc etc, is just propaganda. It's pretty wrapping over a very ugly box. And people still drink that Kool Aid.

My Grandfathers fought in WW2 and my country was attacked and bombed by the Japanese as well. Not once have I taken an apologist position for the Japanese and their actions in WW2, and the way their individual soldiers behaved on the ground, which in places was mind witheringly appalling. However, from a purely military perspective I admire their audacity, ambition and resolve from this period, even though it was a doomed mission from the very beginning. Yamamoto knew Japan could never defeat the US Industrial machine in a war even as he set sail towards Peal Harbour. In a bigger sense, the Japanese were simply doing what ambitious, expansionist countries had done for centuries - they took their cues and lessons from history, and particularly Europe. Britain, Germany, Russia, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, France.....the US - had all expanded violently at the expense of the locals, with purely self interested ideals at the heart of what they did.. But when an Asian country tried it? Hmmm, But I guess that is a whole other conversation. Or is it? You see, nothing happens in isolation. There is always context.

Over to you.

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Interesting how anyone with the right mind would want to even give a try at justifying THE MASSACRE OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN A SINGLE DAY, TWICE, WITHIN LESS THAN A WEEK. Also interesting to see how history would be written a century from now.

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But when an Asian country tried it?

That speaks volumes of where your mind is at...lol Japan the victim of those white colonial powers. Your whole rant was about, just like the ones before it, the US "position" on the war and the alternative that you and others have created.

Yawn. More of the same, but we always end up full circle with those good ole constants, like history. A long experience in Japan has convinced me that those atrocities and events recorded were not fairy tales, and I actually believe more than what was recorded, actually occurred.

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And let me ask you this. Every country that Japan occupied, not a single one of them begged for Japans return, nor have I ever heard of any of them speak in nostalgic terms about Japans occupation, as a matter of fact, when the British returned, they were dancing in the streets in Singapore. Could it be that the "liberation" that you alluded to, was an obvious farce? The puppet government in Manchuria where they humiliated the last emperor of China? The puppet government in Vietnam? Is that just a coincidence, or you have an alternative version for that as well?

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The worst part of it is, that too many Americans think of this as a tit-for-tat for the Pearl Harbor attack. And they use this as an excuse to justify anti-Japanese racism. Of course there were more wars for America after WW2 with Korea and later Vietnam being the biggest ones in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Since Japan, Korea and Vietnam are in the Far East that has led to even more stupid racism against all Oriental Asians in this country - never mind that China was a WW2 ally, never mind that Japan now is a democracy, and never mind that SK and SV, oh nevermind.

We have ignoramuses in America who don't have a clue just how dangerous and ominous nuclear weapons really are. War is such a game for many Americans looking for somebody to hate. It's just 'Kill the (insert 'Enemy of the Week' here)! Wheeeeee!'.

As an American veteran I don't want to see an A-bomb ever used again! I remember when Reagan and Gorbachev were talking and eventually the hatchet was buried. We must learn or we all will burn.

NO MORE!

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As to the 75th Anniversary of the Atomic Bomb dropped on Hiroshima; it was

fully justified.  The Japanese people had become so barbaric in nature that

only a Sodom/Gomorrah type blast could shake Emperor Hirohito {half man-

half-god} to order the military to surrender.  After Nagasaki the next

target was Tokyo. Hirohito spoke wisely when he stated "if we don't

surrender now they {USA} will obliterate us from the Earth."

Further it is clear from reading Japanese history that the people did not

object to the mass invasions, pillaging, murders and rapes of those people

living in China, Korea, Philippines etc. Those same people would not have 

been crying for the citizens of the United States had they developed the bomb 

first and dropped it on New York City {and yes they most certainly would have}. 

Those same people thought nothing of knowing full well that American POWs 

were tortured so badly to see how long it would take to expire from the pain

inflicted. Yes, President Harry S. Truman made the right decision to drop 

the atomic bomb in order to defeat such an evil menace of people that had 

become so out of control. The Japanese people should be gracious their 

military was defeated and their country was not exterminated from the Earth.  

It also prevented the loss of over one million American soldiers needed to 

quash the evil Japanese ego.

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