Japan's Self-Defense Forces struggling to recruit new members

Not surprising as you get what you sow. The Japanese education system today does nothing to instill patriotism nor the desire to do "something" for one's country. The younger generation is afraid to do anything on their own and have to be told everything. When it comes to making choices for their lives, they do poorly!

It’s the best job you can have in Japan you won’t ever have to worry about getting deployed to Iraq or Afghan or fight with nato. They got it easy compared to US marines core. But I can imagine how stressful and strict living a life as a Japanese soldier looking at the way the Japanese corporations treat each other

I joined the US Army right out of high school from camp Zama with mega pride. I’m a veteran now.

Japan usually solve personnel shortage with Japan called foreign trainee (外国人技能実習) which is another way to call cheap labor from developing nation across Asia. However for this case somehow they just can't solve using that. They also don't mentioned wage for being military in Japan, have they increase the pay to attract new recruit?

Japanese are still using Huey helicopters that were used in Vietnam while the us army uses black hawks

I think both of you are correct, and add to that, Japan is confident and let’s admit comfortable that the US is there to help defend Japan, I have so many times from people that they aren’t worried because the US won’t let anything happen to Japan, but the US has its own internal military problems as well as dealing with growing geopolitical issues that are vital to its own domestic interests.

The fact that Japan can’t instill patriotism and the desire to fight and have love and pride for their country. The government doesn’t give enough incentives pride or meaningful purpose as to why people should join. The US should always assist Japan, but the Japanese should always lead first and shape any military conflict that would come their way. South Korea, Israel are small nations that have powerful militaries, Japan should copy their models, work on changing or at the very least tweaking article 9 and push for a more offensive military. Not sure what the answer is, but with a growing and aggressive China, I’m not sure the US will be Japan’s number one ace card.

No pride, no respect, bad pay and an utterly boring career. So many problems that a bandaid won’t help anymore.

How about a foreign legion? Sorry, a foreign trainee program?

Morale is "low", he said, due to "poor pay" and a "lack of ambition" on the part of the armed forces,

not just the armed forces. Morale is "low" due to "poor pay" and a "lack of ambition" all across the board. The only people doing well here are the politicians and their cronies.

I saw the JSDF in action almost immediately after the earthquake/ tsunami disaster of 3/11.

They have every reason to be proud of their role and achievements.

Tanked water supply in the park opposite us in two days.

It’s a great job for a young man with not much education. Almost zero chance of seeing war, super secure, decently paid, lots of freebies etc.. I’d be interested in joining if I were 18 again and Japanese.

Mandatory enlistment in the Japanese forces has been in discussions for quite some time

Oh boy, that would be so regretful. It would send Japan 200 years back in all senses of human evolution. I'm shocked every time a Korean student tells me he has to go back to do 2 years of enforced army training.

Scandals and a lack of support from higher ranks have been an own goal for the SDF.

It needs an open and complete reform to bolster its image but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Don't other countries face a similar problem? So, recruiters use this way and that to gather new members. 

It's said that, in the U.S., joining the military is the shortest way to obtain U.S. citizenship. How many foreign nationals are there in the U.S. military, then?

Here's a novel idea: how about a French style foreign legion? Then, reward those with a certain number of years service with honorary Japanese citizenship. I'm sure the multitude of Japan idealists/apologists who lurk these parts would be flocking to the recruitment tables.

The entry requirements are quite high and the pay is not that great. Foreigners cannot join.

I'm no expert on the inner workings on the JSDF and what their long term challenges are.

But if they were to create a foreign legion, I absolutely guarantee you, they would have people lining up to protect and serve Japan. As usual, it is simply a matter of people here and the government putting aside their meaningless anxieties and biases for the sake of doing good. If you do it the right way it could create very good results.

Randy DaytonaToday  07:47 am JST

I think both of you are correct, and add to that, Japan is confident and let’s admit comfortable that the US is there to help defend Japan, I have so many times from people that they aren’t worried because the US won’t let anything happen to Japan, but the US

From what i see the reality is Japan isn't confident that the US military can effectively provide enough protection for Japan

Hence Japan's military build up

The rude awakening realization that the US military is spread so thin that under certain circumstances the so called iron clad defense might not be up to snuff

We're spread no more thin than in 2002 before the ME wars. If you think China is ready to have a go at our entire air force and submarine fleet, you should just say that. Obviously Xi thinks better.

I have nothing but admiration for those who serve or have serve in uniform.

Japan has a significant and formidable military.

I think it's a great option for a young person - I wish I was young.

I wish my youngster would choose to do it...

One of my oldest and dearest friends was a US Marine - 23 years.

He has seen combat (ever seen Black-Hawk Down? - he was there)

I truly regret I never served. I was too busy listening to Led-Zeppelin and

majoring in my GF...not much to be proud about all these years later.

I once spoke with somebody who grew up in an SDF family. He said the pay was terrible because the SDF members are essentially civil servants, so it’s very hard to get salaries raised.

Because what's the point? it's not enticing at all. Aside from that, young people hardly even vote so why would they jump on the nationalist military bandwagon?

The Japanese government and the business lobby have long held full-employment-at-any-cost policies, so what do they expect?

The result is a severe labor shortage, and yet the government continues to allocate stimulus money, even in sectors that don't have workers. Crazy polices lead to crazy outcomes.

Military conscription is not an answer.

It is mostly a boys club for academically weak students that has recently faced an increase in criminal scandals including sexual abuse of its own like the Japanese police department.

They want more recruits; thus, they need to change the toxic environment, first. Then they need to get a better PR team!

JayToday  08:09 am JST

Here's a novel idea: how about a French style foreign legion? Then, reward those with a certain number of years service with honorary Japanese citizenship. I'm sure the multitude of Japan idealists/apologists who lurk these parts would be flocking to the recruitment tables.

I second this. Wouldn't mind serving the JSDF if it guarantees me citizenship, I'd gladly fight for Japan if there's a need for it. But realistically speaking, we're most likely looking at the downsizing of the JSDF manpower. They could compensate by investing on more advanced systems like Singapore, a small standing military but has a lot of new toys to play with.

Tattoos are an anathema in Japanese society - generally.

So when a rock solid traditional to the bone govt org such as the SDF says it will allow tattooed persons to apply, then you really know they are in dire straits re recruiting.

The sheen of a life in a military uniform has been pretty much dulled.

Low pay? Check.

multiple sexual harassment/assault cases?

good way to entice women to join…….check

no offer to pay for schooling/college for younger new recruits?

check…….

so, what are they doing to try to recruit new members again?

do they even offer free or subsidized housing for soldiers?

it seems like there’s nothing to make anyone want to join.

*The army is EVEN reportedly considering allowing recruits with tattoos / dismayed to find themselves doing military tasks / no one expects an actual armed conflict*

Reading this article makes me LOL. With such an obsolete approach from above and public sentiment on the ground this is only natural for SDF becoming a hot-spot for sekuhara, shooting accidents, etc. All in the victim of a joke costing over USD60bln of taxpayers' money...

voiceofokinawa

It's said that, in the U.S., joining the military is the shortest way to obtain U.S. citizenship.

that is why you will see so many Filipino enlisted and so many are stationed at Yokosuka naval base

Increased pay and benefits should be examined.

I mean they named a ton of reasons why no one is interested in signing up. Myriad of scandals and prohibitively pointless structures to the organization make it a moot career. Instilling benefits like subsidized housing discounts, career skills for outside service life, and college tuition would cause a huge spike in recruiting

but no, let’s show people the appeal of the sdf though this fun anime girl!

He has seen combat (ever seen Black-Hawk Down? - he was there)

that is my favorite movie besides Platoon.

My drill Sgt at boot camp told our company that how he was there and got one confirmed kill with a shovel

Bravo company attend hut!

To be ready to defend your country and loved ones cannot possibly be regarded as underdeveloped

To have to do so is very much underdeveloped. Puts the advancement of humanity back to Neanderthal level.

I served in the army back home for four years and have some idea about what makes it unattractive as a career choice (because I made the choice not to make it into a career). In addition to the obvious (ie possibility of getting sent to your death) you have to deal with:

1) Lousy lifestyle. Not sure about the SDF, but back home joining the army meant living on a base that was located in the middle of nowhere. Nature is nice, but you get tired of it real quick when you spend a week in a trench covered in mosquitoes. Plus if you are an 18 year old single guy it means living in a society with a roughly 10:1 gender imabalance and almost no opportunities for dating or any sort of normal social life. I made some great friends in the army, but I remember being lonely and extremely frustrated since it was almost impossible to meet girls (and the few girls who were in the army had the exact opposite problem....)

2) If you are going to make it a career it means you will forever be a nomad, getting moved around from base to base every few years. If you've got a family, this will screw things up massively.

3) Pay is kind of "OK-ish" but not great. If your only other option is working at a cashier, the army is way better. If you are smart and have ability on the other hand, you can do better elsewhere. As a result, at least with NCOs and junior ranks (not so much with officers) there is a tendency for the better guys who join up at 18 to slowly leave for better things while the people who can't leave because they aren't good at anything tend to cling on, meaning that the population of 30-something army guys is disproportionately made up of dead-ender types (not all, some competent guys really like being in the army, but there is a significant population that just plain can't leave because they suck). This creates a bit of a viscious circle since a lot of these guys get put in charge of new recruits and its quite de-motivational (I was quite gung-ho as an 18 year old recruit, but I remember when I was about 21 being put under the command of an absolutely incompetent idiot and the experience just completely demoralizing me and contributing to my decision to leave).

Structure is a good thing...

Discipline is a good thing.

I don't thing compulsary military service is a bad thing.

I can go in to down-town Ottawa - there's looser junkie's crafting a career of "spare change?" - in CANADA...I lived in the UK...same...

In Japan...people don't beg for change because charity is not part of their culture...

But if you give it to them...they bow in gratitude...I know...cause I've done it...

Sure...they have problems...

How many would have been better served had they served...

No surprise here

Not much more to say than it is sad. Think what the outcome would have been had not "The greatest generation" Defeated Nazi Germany.

"Most soldiers weren't thinking at all about national defense (when they joined)," said Kohei Kondo, 25, a former sergeant.

Really? How does that even work?

How's this? I know I'm harsh on education here but I truly believe it is the root of many of society's woes, lack of courage, meaning, and ambition. If they weren't exposed to idiot social studies teachers who have turned one of the most engaging and interesting subjects into a borning monotone outflow of unconnectable dots and drab, then we could have had a generation of Japanese youths who understand and appreciate the pivotal moment of history we are currently living in. What brought us here, the possible scenarios of the next decade or two, why it matters, and most importantly the crucial role Japan could play in the region as we walk forward in these turbulent times. Making atone for the disasters of WW2 this could be Japan's time to shine. Give people some agency and a grasp of a meta-story and watch them step up. The world could do with a stoic Samurai culture reawakening right now. Make the right moves for the right cause and you guys could absolutely rock!

Go and poke your head into a classroom though and see if anything resembling a good historical story that will spark the imaginations of these young minds is happening. Ask your kids what they learned today? See if they can tell you anything!

As with everything here, there's a serious messaging problem, and mediocrity has become the norm. That's the disaster, don't blame the youth.

Japan should follow the example of the US. Allow foreigners to obtain Japanese citizenship by serving in the SDF. It should also upgrade the vertical mobility of female members who serve.

Randy DaytonaToday 08:46 am JST

We're spread no more thin than in 2002 before the ME wars. If you think China is ready to have a go at our entire air force and submarine fleet, you should just say that. Obviously Xi thinks better.

Yeah ok

But remember your not a military expert as you previously announced

Your opinion duly noted

But unlike some people I'm not here to gaslight, so my knowledge will have to suffice.

I have absolutely no knowledge of what China plans to do other than reunite with Taiwan , of which you say isn't China but however agree Taiwan is still engaged in a civil war with mainland China

I say it strains credulity that a civil war can have a 75 year pause, but keep trying to speak for me.

FYI evertime the US military expands it's defense agreements and bases / lily pads it becomes spread thinner

Since 2002 expansion has happened and is happening now

New storage units and access to new ports enhances capabilities and doesn't reduce them.

lol

so my knowledge will have to suffice

why do we need jpn army at all while paying a lot of cash from taxpayers money for US forces?

any thoughts?

The JSDF is not an army, it’s part of the national police.

Many don't want to wind up serving in the next needless war of profit created by the evil and greedy people that control the government here and those abroad, and have wised up to how the U.S. government holds Japan as a vassal and is the warringest most rogue nation on the planet.

For better or worse though, most are just not thinking at all and are completely uninformed as to what is going on and just haven't taken any interest in anything the SDF has to offer.

Even fewer and fewer Americans are finding the military attractive. I wish it were for the right reasons, instead of the simple things like aversion to guns and the outdoors, or even aversion to any kinds of violence, even the necessary kinds. But it does seem more and more are waking up to how evil the U.S. government and military machines are and I can only hope that trend continues.

The people who boast of serving the warmongers and war profiteers trying to pass that off as "serving their country" and "doing their duty" are either utterly brainwashed or sitting in a troll farm in Langley.

The JSDF is not an army, it’s part of the national police.

LOL. Call it what you like. It still smells like an army, right down to the latrines, because that is exactly what it is.

None of us falling for the "special operation" type propaganda dude.

Why join the military when you can get the same by joining a socialist rally, without even having to work!

Canada is a socialist democracy, and everyone I know there works. Same with the Scandinavian counties.

I’m guessing you’re using the American far-right dialectic use of the word socialist and not the meaning used by the rest of the planet.

Keepyer InternetpointsToday 12:57 pm JST

Many don't want to wind up serving in the next needless war of profit created by the evil and greedy people that control the government here and those abroad, and have wised up to how the U.S. government holds Japan as a vassal and is the warringest most rogue nation on the planet.

Your country still loves you even though you come up with nonsense terms like "warringest" when it hasn't taken any new territory since 1898.

But it does seem more and more are waking up to how evil the U.S. government and military machines are and I can only hope that trend continues.

A machine is a machine and has no ethics by itself. A democratic government also has no ethics by itself, but that is a concept far too advanced for you.

The people who boast of serving the warmongers and war profiteers trying to pass that off as "serving their country" and "doing their duty" are either utterly brainwashed or sitting in a troll farm in Langley.

Or they just aren't complete traitors looking to bring us the latest from China Daily.

You were trying to obfuscate the fact the SDF is an army

It doesn’t appear you’re clear on the difference between fact and opinion, because that’s an opinion. The fact of the matter is what I pointed out, it’s part of the national police force.

that is my favorite movie besides Platoon.

My drill Sgt at boot camp told our company that how he was there and got one confirmed kill with a shovel

Off topic glorification of murder deemed legal by the state.

It doesn’t appear you’re clear on the difference between fact and opinion, because that’s an opinion. The fact of the matter is what I pointed out, it’s part of the national police force.

Facts seem to make you angry. That can’t be healthy.

The SDF are NOT part of the national police force, the two are completely separate entities with no connection between them.

The SDF fall under the Ministry of Defence, headed by the Minister of defence, a cabinet-level appointment.

The National Police Agency falls under the National Public Safety Commission, also headed by a member of the cabinet.

The national police agency has zero role to play in the SDF's chain of command (and vice versa).

I should have fact checked myself, rainy day is correct I stand corrected

Japanese are still using Huey helicopters that were used in Vietnam while the us army uses black hawks

You're right. That is old-fashioned. They are using copters even before I was born. That sure is a generation or two behind. With the low pay and low moral, what's the point. Do they pay for your education while you train? If they don't, really, what's point?

you come up with nonsense terms like "warringest" when it hasn't taken any new territory since 1898.

Its not that you don't know what war is, its that have been given some incentive to try and hide what it is.

A democratic government also has no ethics by itself, but that is a concept far too advanced for you.

The U.S. government is NOT democractic. Its a corporatocracy run by oligarchs that employ armies of lobbyists.

The JSDF is not an army,

Yes it is.

Japanese nationalists support arms race policy, on the other hand, person who want to be SDF members have decreased.

Many local cities have already offered personal information of many teenagers or new graduates without even their permission toward SDF.

Present far-right regime who easily ignore even laws seem to use even socially spreading poverty to recruit young people to SDF.

The JSDF is not an army,

Yes it is.

No, Japan is not allowed to have an army. It’s a self defence force.

The U.S. government is NOT democractic.

Yes it is - politicians are elected in open and transparent elections.

No, Japan is not allowed to have an army. It’s a self defence force.

This is kind of just playing with semantics though.

Article 9 of the Constitution prevents Japan from formally maintaining a military, but for all practical purposes there is no real difference between the SDF and the military in most other countries. The only real distinction (asides from the name) is that the government's interpretation of Article 9 limits the SDF to defending Japan and also engaging in collective self defence, so it doesn't generally procure weapons for anything beyond that scope (no first strike capability, etc).

But that doesn't prevent Japan from having modern main battle tanks, F-35 fighters, etc.

Enlist today! Service guarantees citizenship

Yes it is - politicians are elected in open and transparent elections.

Even if this were true, Tweedism says no. Elections don't matter when the candidates are picked by the oligarchs. This is straight out of Stalin's playbook.

If America were a democracy, Bernie Sanders would be president. Well its not a democracy. The Democrats installed Hillary as their candidate and to hell with what the people thought. The result was so much support for Trump the oligarchs had to put him in the WH for four years to ensure no rebellion.

If people are poor and desperate enough they’ll join. LDP decision makers understand this - helps explain the economy.

Yes it is - politicians are elected in open and transparent elections.

Even if this were true

No 'were' about it. It's true.

Which makes the rest of your post, which is based on that point being questionable, based on a fallacy.

If America were a democracy

It is - the politicians are elected through transparent elections.

StrangerlandToday 04:19 pm JST

That guy is a Noam Chomsky bot. Undermining western governments by insisting there are no democracies is core programming.

I've spent some time trying to figure out where I came up with my mistaken belief that the JSDF is part of the police force. I was sure I had researched this years ago. I discovered this:

The National Police Reserve (警察予備隊, Keisatsu Yobitai), or NPR, was a lightly armed national police force established in August 1950 during the Allied occupation of Japan.[2] In October 1952, it was expanded to 110,000 men and renamed as the National Safety Force (保安隊, Hoantai). On July 1, 1954, it was reorganized as the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Police_Reserve

I can see where my mistake came from. This will teach me not to double check something I haven't verified in a while before I post.

My wife is Japanese, we met during my enlistment in the Marine Corps while I was stationed in Japan. We have 3 sons and 2 daughters now, all of us currently living in Japan. She’s made it crystal clear to me that none of our kids should join the military, Japan’s or the US.

The LDP are itching to change the constitution. If they did, the SDF could be on the front line the day after. Who wants to be cannon fodder for the LDP?

Conscription (likely for teenage boys only) would be a disaster. Brutalise your teenage boys as conscripts and young women would avoid them like Covid. It also wrecks the economy and wastes the time of the military, who want quality recruits, not quantity.

Only a percentage of any population are going to join the armed forces. Often unemployable kids. Psych filters aren't great. Hence the rapes and drunk driving issues with US forces in Japan.

Governments enjoy playing soldiers, as in Ukraine. I would rather be in prison. Not because I'm not patriotic, but because I have no intention of being a gaming piece in the half-baked plans of my idiot government and their idiot military. If you want to win a war, target the enemy leader, his cronies and their government from day 1. Lying in the mud shooting at conscripts is an appalling waste of kids' lives.

YubaruOct. 12  06:49 am JST

Not surprising as you get what you sow. The Japanese education system today does nothing to instill patriotism nor the desire to do "something" for one's country. The younger generation is afraid to do anything on their own and have to be told everything. When it comes to making choices for their lives, they do poorly!

This should make them excellent recruits. They don't need to do anything on their own, cause you work as a team. You have to be told everything, following orders. Unless you actually get up a few ranks. And the school system forces them to sing a national anthem, bow to their elder, or senpai. So....it doesn't seem to be too bad.

It probably has more to do with overselling by recruiters. Marching, drilling, cleaning up the camp, sweeping the truck park, cleaning rifles, and being screamed at by some sergeant. Not to mention Endless exercises in boiling hot summer and freezing cold winter, bulling those boots. It does get boring, and with very very little chance of being posted overseas takes any incentive to join up. I joined up because there were chances to travel, see the world, get a trade, and acquire skills. Not all soldiers shoot. Some are drivers engineers, signals, medics, clerks, all good skills. Giving more chances to get out of Japan, work with allies, highlight sports, and courses they can get, and put commercials on TV so kids can see what opportunities there are. Yes, pay is important. Otherwise, just get a nice job in an air-conditioned office and collect the same pay without being screamed at.

Japan trusts in the presence of US in the region..

US taxpayers money at work..

Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen as in Saigon or Afghanistan..

TokyoLivingToday 01:16 am JST

Japan trusts in the presence of US in the region..

US taxpayers money at work..

Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen as in Saigon or Afghanistan..

I assume you don't think Japan is pre-industrialized state like Vietnam was or Afghanistan, so I don't know why you would worry about that.

GBR48Oct. 12 10:35 pm JST

Brutalise your teenage boys as conscripts and young women would avoid them like Covid.

My understanding is the military builds confidence, which is the number one quality women look for.

Governments enjoy playing soldiers, as in Ukraine.

Soooo, don't be a soldier for Russia?

If you want to win a war, target the enemy leader, his cronies and their government from day 1. Lying in the mud shooting at conscripts is an appalling waste of kids' lives.

1) That is very difficult unless you have tons of high quality cruise missiles or stealth aircraft. You might only get one shot at it, too, before the leader hides.

2) There is nothing more escalatory. If Ukraine seriously targeted Putin, there would be far more damage wrecked on the Ukrainian government in response.

I guess in short, targetting the leadership of a country is not something you do unless you already have a clear upper hand and actually want to treat the enemy as a terrorist group you will never negotiate with. Most combatants realize there should be a treaty of some kind at the end of a conflict.

That, and as a general rule, the SDF is not deployed overseas. It will never participate in any foreign wars to defend foreign countries.

So, what's the point of joining anyway?

So, what's the point of joining anyway?

Um, it's in the name: Japan Self Defense Force.

You don't think defense of your nation is a valid goal? Weird.

Just a thought, do what the Americans did:

20 years of service, then defined benefit pension for the rest of your life at half the base pay

lowest paid is ¥3.8 million, plus basic housing allowance and basic food allowance, pegged to inflation and local area

multiple businesses provide 10% off for active duty and veterans

For clarification, an enlisted would probably retire with $70k (¥10.5 million) annually base pay, so half would be $35k (¥5.25 million) annual pension for the rest of life. Perhaps can keep basic housing allowance and/or food allowance depending on the scheme.

In my example above.

EDIT BUTTON, PLEASE

The elephant in the room is the socially-induced fad that masculinity is bad. Many boys aren’t taught to be men. There, I said it.

The US has recruiting problems too. Only 2/10 within the eligibility ages are fit to enlist. 8/10 are unable to pass the simple fitness tests, cannot pass the simple mental tests or have serious criminal records disqualifying them.

Tens of thousands of dollars of enlistment bonuses up front aren’t enough.