A Peach Aviation plane on a flight from Kushiro in Hokkaido to Kansai Airport in Osaka made an unscheduled stop at Niigata airport to offload an unruly passenger who refused to wear a face mask and was threatening cabin crew.
According to the airline and police, the incident occurred on Monday afternoon. Kyodo News reported the plane was about to take off when a cabin attendant noticed that the man wasn’t wearing a mask. The budget carrier, like all airlines in Japan, recommends passengers and crew to wear face masks to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus.
When the cabin attendant asked the man to wear a mask, he refused. Other passengers seated near him asked if they could move to other seats, saying they didn't want to be seated next to someone not wearing a mask, at which point the man became angry and started yelling at them, accusing them of slandering him. As a result, the plane’s departure was delayed by about 45 minutes and took off at 1:15 p.m.
After takeoff, a flight attendant asked the man once more to wear a mask but he refused. One of the cabin attendants told the man that a letter containing an official warning would be sent to him if he didn't cooperate. The man told them to go ahead and started abusing the attendants and other passengers.
The captain decided to divert the plane, carrying 124 passengers, to Niigata airport where police removed him. The plane took off and arrived at Kansai Airport about two hours late.
Airline officials said they plan to seek 500,000 yen in compensation from the man for the trouble and inconvenience he caused to the airline, the aircraft, passengers and crew.
The transport ministry said this is the first time such an incident involving a passenger not wearing a mask under the aviation industry's coronavirus regulations has occurred in Japan.© Japan Today/Kyodo
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Annual deaths from motor vehicle crashes in United States: 36,560 (2018)
Deaths from COVID 19 in United States in just the past 8 months: 197.014
If I read this right he wasn't thrown off for not wearing the mask (after all Peach only "recommend wearing one", although that might be the Japanese version of "recommend"), but rather for his rude and unruly and threatening behavior when asked to wear one and behave.....
Whatever the situation and despite my sceptiscism about some of the current Covid hysteria, if he chooses to fly with Peach he should comply with the directions of the cabin crew.
No to masks and yes to death and lingering vascular, heart, brain, kidney damage for millions of people and your neighbors?
Required vs. "recommended" is the kind of vague language that makes lawyers salivate. I don't agree with what this fool did but if it were me I wouldn't pay the airline a single yen for violating a "recommendation".
500.000 yen = £3700 ouch! that's going to hurt his ego and his wallet. just remind me how much is a cheap face mask? 20 yen? I don't like these masks, but if it make other sensitive people feel more relaxed and comfortable on a plane, so ill ware one.
“but surely you cannot disagree that masks do have an effect? “
Maybe, maybe not. I’m going with the latter for now.
I totally agree that other factors (besides wearing masks) might have more of a significant effect on the number of covid cases in Japan, especially the lack of shaking hands and hugging in its culture, but surely you cannot disagree that masks do have an effect? Please check Shaolin74's posts.
Whether it was considered an emergency landing or not, the man didn't abide by the rules of the airline. These are made for the safety of all passengers, and I'm sure the airline asked the passengers to wear masks before boarding the plane. He caused a disruption, and there would be protocols that the airline must follow in situations like these, so they decided to divert and land as soon as possible. I do agree though that it would have been better for everyone involved if this incident had happened before they started 'clearing the runway for takeoff.' The fact that he wasn't wearing a mask is not the reason they landed in Niigata. He refused to follow the rules of the airline, and is now paying the price.
Yeah, but it does not have to be a significant one or even the main one. In a country that does not hug, shake hands, or kiss much, where natural social distancing was already greater than elsewhere, where even children are made so busy they hardly have time to visit friends, where in so many aspects cleanliness seems more important than mental health, where diets are head and shoulders above the diet in many other countries, masks may or may not be so significant.
Some people also say a previous corona virus similar to Covid 19 may have already passed through granting some immunity.
I once again have to doubt how effective masks are on airplanes. Worth an emergency landing? Uh. I don't think so. An emergency landing is actually pretty serious. Its not like an unplanned trip to the convenience store.
Donald Henderson seemed to be referring to self protection by wearing facial masks. I think it's common knowledge that they won't really protect you from viruses if you wear one. My argument was that the wearing of facial masks gives some form of protection for others. There are many factors, but if you compare Japan with many other countries, wearing masks has to be one factor that has suppressed this virus.
“ can't understand why some people consistently disagree with the value of wearing face masks.”
Because Donald Henderson for one, as well as a bunch of doctors throughout the medical profession, say they don’t work.
If people want to wear one, fine. But as with religious beliefs, face coverings should not be imposed on people. Period.
I don’t get how some people consistently blindly accept what they are told.
“Wearing masks will not save you directly but if everyone does it will”
Just an opinion with no concrete evidence. In fact I’d say there is as much or more evidence out there against face coverings, as there is allegedly supporting them.
Wearing masks will not save you directly but if everyone does it will. Please scroll up and read the virologist Shaolin74's posts. You will get a better understanding of how effective masks are. Then look at the statistics in Japan (a nation of mask wearers) and you will understand even more. I don't why you would say that wearing a mask lowers your immune system. Eating bad food and not getting enough sleep would do more damage.
Worldwide, it's actually 3.4%. Imagine if all countries decide to go the herd immunity way. Hospitals will become overloaded and have to start telling people (who are barely breathing) that there's nothing they can do, so please go home. THAT is what's going to happen! You can't argue against that!
I'm also concerned about the long term health complications that nobody really knows what they are...
Was listening to public radio while driving the other day, and the interviewer had a scientist on. The scientist put the mask thing in very simple terms. Basically, masks are to the spread of Covid-19 what condoms are to the spread of HIV.
Even I can understand that comparison.
Shouldn't it be part of their final check, along with checking all seat belts are fastened , to make sure everyone has their mask on. If not the passenger should be informed they can put one on or get off the plane. On most flights people are still allowed to drink their own beverages and eat if they want. So all quite pointless really unless social distance seating is enforced.
The headline made it sound like he was offloaded for failing to wear the ("recommended") mask, when in reality he was offloaded for his disruption of the flight. Any airline will do that. The mask was his cause for being disruptive, but Peach would have done the same if it was alcohol-fueled, or having a lengthy outburst for any other issue.
According to the data from the CDC the chances of dying from covid 19 is 0.04 %. In other words there is 99.96% chance of living, you have more a greater chance of dying in a car crash than covid ...LOL We are exposed this is like a cold, you get it when you get it. Wearing mask will not save you from the virus, you will only hurting yourself and lower your immune system ....
This is horrible.....
The fact he was able to walk through the gate without a mask would have been a dead giveaway.
he could have spent his energy to something more useful.
How this passenger was able to board the flight is a mystery..
Shaolin74, thank you very much! I'm not a virologist but everything you posted makes sense to me and I can't understand why some people consistently disagree with the value of wearing face masks.
I don't think many people DO believe that they are protected if they wear a mask. What most of us do understand though, is that we are more protected if OTHERS wear a mask around us. Consideration for others is a good thing. Would you not agree?
“In a pandemic, your freedom of choice must be weighed against the safety of the population period!”
In a scamdemic, correction.
And a bit hysterical
”Then he got angry and started yelling at the other passengers.
(At this point he should have been chucked off the plane, but they let him stay on. Can't imagine why.)”
At this I agree for the unruliness she should’ve been removed. But no one should be forced to wear a face covering, in the absence of conclusive evidence.
“On refusal customer is forcefully strapped to the seat, cabin attendant smiles, applies mask, flight lands, customer is released and handed over to the authorities, job done, panic over.”
What happens during beverage serving? Does the airline have a signed agreement with the virus?
Simple, passenger wrongfully gains seat on flight, customer is given one last chance to politely wear mask.
On refusal customer is forcefully strapped to the seat, cabin attendant smiles, applies mask, flight lands, customer is released and handed over to the authorities, job done, panic over.
He was on a cheapo budget airline, so he probably thought it gave him the right to abuse the crew and the other passengers.
This happened before take-off? Why didn't they handle it on the ground? Like in cases where someone is sick or lacking in oxygen, pilots usually abort take-off to handle the situation.
A long, long thread all going on about the pros and cons of the efficacy of masks against Covid. All beside the point.
The plonker wasn't wearing a mask, the cabin attendant asked him to wear one, he refused. Because of his refusal other passengers asked to be reseated away from him.
Then he got angry and started yelling at the other passengers.
(At this point he should have been chucked off the plane, but they let him stay on. Can't imagine why.)
After takeoff, he was again asked to wear a mask and this time started abusing the attendants and other passengers.
He wasn't chucked off for not wearing a mask. He was chucked off for being a major plonker and a nuisance to everyone else on the plane.
I very much doubt a paltry 500,000 yen will cover the cost of the delayed departure and detour for the company, and the inconvenience and nuisance to other passengers.
He should be charged the cost of the flight, the wages of the crew and the tickets of all the passengers, plus extra to cover nuisance.
And of course banned from flying anywhere ever again.
Instead of a mask, give him a dummy to suck.
Because it is LCC so just 50man? If it is JAL or ANA then it is easily 500man. He is lucky!
We can accuse this guy but there is no law regarding wearing a mask. Nothing is mandatory.
The problem is that it caused trouble during the flight and it is a safety issue. Passengers who complained are the one who did start the trouble. Fear is the problem caused by the coronavirus. A plane is less risky than going to a restaurant.
Personally, I usually do not wear a mask unless I am asked, but I would do it in a plane to avoid any inconvenience.
What some seem to have left out of the conversation was that the staff actually said to him “We understand you don’t want to wear a mask, so we’d like to offer you a different seat.” He was given the choice of a new seat or wear a mask. He didn’t want to do either. Just another example of a monster customer. Defend him all you wish, but he was given a choice.
I hate masks more than anything on this world, therefore I drive wherever I need to go no matter how far. But, I guess if I really had to fly I would comply, in the end they are private entities and can set up any rules they want. He should've checked the regulations before flying. If you hate masks just avoid places that make you wear one, don't act like a baby.
In the United States the arriving flight would have been met by the S.W.A.T. unit, which would have either tasered the errant passenger or perforated his body with metal jacketed ammo.
No, of course not. You are being binary, as you have somehow concluded that because masks are useful then social distancing is not.
No, of course not. Again, you are being binary in that you believe that being exposed to the virus for 16% of the time is the same as 100%. It isn't, you surely must know that?
Can you grasp that between 'safe' and 'unsafe' there may be degrees of 'safety'? This isn't zero sum.
You're welcome. You might be able to think more logically if you could control your temper when replying.
My take on it is as follows:
Why did they let him know the plane in the first place? Bad organization on the side of the airline.
What the guy is saying about the mask wearing is also true. The airline is only お願い ing to Wear them. There are no rules specific.
How about when people eat on the flight? They need to take it off anyway. Does wearing a mask on a plane have any actual preventive effect of getting the virus? Scientifically debatable.
There are rules that one needs to follow the instructions of the ta and the pilot. The guy did not. So they had a right to throw him out.However, to what extent one needs to follow the instructions of the pilot. Let's say the pilot went crazy and demanded everybody to get naked. Do we need to comply?
Ultimately, the written rules needs to be followed by each crew member and pilot has a handbook too. So if in the hand book it doesn't say that wearing a mask can be demanded to a passenger then the pilot or the CA have no right to demand it to the passenger?We could argue that he could just put on the mask as part of Common sense and empathy towards the people around you. 迷惑かけない文化.
But you cannot satisfy everybody, there will always be a person who is not happy with something. Based on that you cannot just throw anybody just because you don't like them ...
I think I might start going into metaphysics in a minute so I will stop here.
They could not do that over him not wearing a mask as there was no actual rule. They might have been able to do as you suggest once they annoyed him enough over it he began to get "unruly". Perhaps they did not make him "unruly" enough? I guess they decided to have another go once the plane was in the air.
All told I will take the man over the flight attendants.
This is an argument between morals and ethics, and no one is going to win.
Is he morally just for refusing? Of course. We all have freedom of choice. The airline SHOULD have made masks mandatory, thus ending the argument right there.
Ethically, he should be wearing a mask even for a short flight. He may be presympomatic/asymptomatic. He wouldn’t know. He then innocently aerosoling virals onto surfaces for others to come into contact with would then create yet another cluster we would then have to trace and deal with.
I’m not fussed which side of the fence you want to sit. From a prevention point of view, unless you have a debilitating condition that prevents you from wearing a mask, you should at the very least just don one for a 50 minute flight rather than create all this fuss in the first place.
As I said before, I think the airline should be changing their requirements, but the passenger should be taking some responsibility in this. If kids can wear masks for a full school day, he can wear one for 50 minutes. In a pandemic, your freedom of choice must be weighed against the safety of the population period!
Thank you for proving my point.
Your rights, forget about everyone else, right?
Seems to me that people who force others to do something for themselves are self-centered, selfish, ignorant, etc. I don't ask anyone to wear a mask for me. That's because I value your right to do what you want. Those who demand things of others are those who are in the wrong.
@Shaolin74 the (very tired virologist)
Thank you for that very informative post, that even a primary school child can understand.
All of us here are. Aren't you??
I never said it wasn't. My problem is acting like its the end all, be all, and therefore making things far worse than they actually were. I keep repeating the word "priorities". You may know the meaning of the word but you clearly have no experience with the actual concept.
Its a plane full of people not practicing social distancing and all but one is wearing a mask. If you think harassing the non-masking wearing person so that he gets into two separate screaming matches that delay departure and then induce an emergency landing is the smarter, safer move, then you please feel free to own that opinion.
It seems that almost every time I read a COVID-19 article here regarding masks, there is always a group of SJWs trying to champion a cause that shouldn't be defended in the first instance.
I wanted to clarify certain misrepresentations of facts that are being propagated here before it gets even more out of hand. I'm a virologist here in Japan tasked with COVID-19 research. Originally I worked as a S.O for the British government, so I believe that my opinion, and that of my peers should carry at least some weight.
I'm not here to discuss the moralities of what this customer did, or the actions of the airline company. Both are morally compromised to some extent. What I am going to defend is the wearing of face masks. So many comments on here from people claiming that there is no empirical evidence that face masks work, and some posting links to defunct or underpowered research that shouldn't be posted in the first instance.
Regarding COVID-19, people are most infectious in the initial post-infected phase where most show little to no symptoms. Therefore, we have to assume that anyone could be infected.
Bae et al conducted using COVID-19 positive patients, different face coverings and then examining viral loads have deduced that the wearing of cotton masks can yield a 10 fold reduction in the viral load expelled from the subject.
Van der Sande et al also stated that ALL mask regardless of type reduced aerosol exposure.
Milton et al found a 3.4 fold reduction in the influenza virus being transmitted in a sampling of patients.
Johnson et al found that N95 and surgical masks appeared equally effective in blocking the transmission of influenza virus in sampling of patients.
Cochrane review found that through studies masks were the best performing intervention across populations settings and threats.
An observational study in Hong Kong on SARS (49) found that “frequent mask use in public venues, frequent hand washing, and disinfecting the living quarters were signiﬁcant protective factors (OR 0.36 to 0.58)”. An important observation was that “members of the case group [infected with SARS] were less likely than members of the control group [not infected] to have frequently worn a face mask in public venues (27.9% vs. 58.7%).”
And one more for the cheap seats; One case report describes a man who ﬂew from China to Toronto and then tested positive for COVID-19. He was wearing a mask during the ﬂight. The 25 people closest to him on the plane and the ﬂight attendants all tested negative. Nobody from that ﬂight has been reported as acquiring COVID-19. Another case study involving a masked inﬂuenza patient on an airplane found that “wearing a face mask was associated with a decreased risk for inﬂuenza acquisition during this long-duration ﬂight.”
My point is, there is a reason why we aren't seeing the huge explosion of numbers here in Japan as opposed to what we are seeing the the UK or the US. Irrelevant of testing numbers, the custom of wearing face masks when you are ill here has aided in restricting the spread of COVID-19 through the population. So you can defend this customer all you wish, but if you and everyone else in the world wishes to see an end to this pandemic, you'll suck it up and wear a mask for a short flight, and bury your pride. Please stop posting anti mask comments on here unless you have the relevant RECENT studies, background and data to back it up.
Best regards and stay safe.
(A very tired virologist)
Are you an infectious disease expert?
Because clearly your points contradict all present facts and evidence.
So because in an airplane we cannot properly social distance why wear a mask, is that your point?
That makes very little sense,
Anyone would realise that some preventative measure is better than none.
Viral loads become relevant when you are exposed to multiple people who are clearly sick. This is what happened to those poor doctors and nurses who got sick and died helping all those coughing individuals.
One guy who may be asymptomatic and not wearing a mask is not going to give you a significantly greater viral load compared to some guy who took his mask off to eat for 10 minutes then put his mask on for the remainder of the short flight.
In fact, wearing a mask does NOT cancel social distancing, which is clearly not being observed on an airplane. This is because these masks, which I like to call exhalation filtration masks (EFM), do NOT 100 percent filter viruses. What they do is filter some but just REDUCE the distance a virus can travel through droplets from breathing, talking, coughing and even SCREAMING. Sit right next to a person and the EFM is all but useless.
Now consider that they harassed the guy over a non-mandatory issue and forced him to SCREAM which first forced the plane to depart late and then they did it again making the place make an unscheduled landing. By drastically increasing flight time and harassing the man to scream, potential viral loads were drastically increased.
But hey, enjoy you on petard you are hoist on. Like I said, no sense of priority out there whatsoever. So many of you will pick a nit until it tears a hole into your brain cavity.
The regularly, What if they have asthma, COPD, allergies, etc...
Any competent doctor will tell such people to wear a mask because it reduces the chance of breathing in dirt, dust, pollen, etc...which can trigger attacks. This is standard in Japan as high use of meds like inhalers is not seen as a good thing.
If you have a lung problem that is so severe that you cannot wear a mask then an inclosed space like an airplane is the last place you should be especially during an pandemic of a deadly disease which attacks the respiratory system.
Unless your travel is for some great emergency, someone with a respiratory ailment so severe that they cannot wear a mask shouldn't be traveling in an airplane.
Stop thinking you are so important, special, etc...and start acting like a member of a civilised society, wear a mask.
Anti maskers claims
You can't wear a mask on long flights:
Debunked by the simple fact that in the 30 years I have been in Japan people on flights to and From Canada on 12 to 14 hour flights have been doing just that. My wife, my children's 90 year old grandparents, my sister in law, and most Japanese on the plane have been long before covid-19.
Masks do not stop the virus as the virus is smaller than the holes in the mask material:
Debunked: sure if somehow the virus was airborne on its little old self, it is not and cannot.
The virus is airborne in water droplets those droplets get stopped by the mask if the wearer, any that get by get stopped by the mask worn by those near them.
No a mask will not stop 100% but greatly reduce the chances of breathing in a larger quantity of the virus, reducing ones chances of getting more seriously ill.
Simply put if your immune system has a chance to start up producing antibodies during a low viral load chance of getting seriously ill are lower but if you system gets a larger viral load in a short time your system will not be able to react fast enough and the virus can entrench itself making it more difficult to fight and possibly leading to being seriously ill.
This has been proven by multiple studies done in Japan and now being confirmed by studies done in the west.
Simple take a tissue place it in front of you mouth now start talking normally.
Now look at the wet spots on the tissue.
Simple plain logic a primary school child knows.
There goes your Cheap vacation
“While I don't condone the passenger becoming "unruly" -- whatever that means -- the guy should take the airline to court. The airline's own guidelines make it optional, not mandatory,”
Isn’t flying in a plane low risk?
The filtration system changes cabin air frequently.
Airline companies could also set the cabin temperature to be warmer to create a less hospitable environment for the virus.
One person not wearing a mask is not going to be a significant risk anyway
As for the passenger who is the subject of this article, I hold the position that no one should be forced to wear a mask on board a plane if they don't want to. Simply bolt a chair to the wing, and let the individual travel out there.
"As a result of the argument, the plane’s departure was delayed by about 45 minutes"
"One of the cabin attendants told the man that a letter containing an official warning would be sent to him if he didn't cooperate. The man told them to go ahead and started abusing the attendants."
"plan to seek 500,000 yen in compensation"
How very generous of them. In the US, this is federal crime territory.
Texas A&M Aggie
The story says wearing a face mask is recommended, not required. What the article does not mention is whether the guy has any respiratory issues (asthma, emphysema, a single lung because of surgery, etc.) that would prevent him from wearing a mask safely for an extended period of time.
While I don't condone the passenger becoming "unruly" -- whatever that means -- the guy should take the airline to court. The airline's own guidelines make it optional, not mandatory,
“Your are in a closed space, people are uncomfortable as it is, then there is always the chance that you will spread your saliva around”
Got proof? Or are you just offering yet more speculation?
Wearing a facemask on a flight.... What a farce - and thats assuming the typical ones you see people wear in the street - or when paying short visits to stores etc.
If you're sitting in the same static position wearing a facemask, within an area that has limited airflow, and more-so with the same shared airflow circulated from the bathroom, and your fellow passengers... then it's not really going to offer you much help.
Much more needs to be done to study this statement, however I will draw your attention to the experience of the UK's desire to fly to European holiday destinations, and their experience of return flights, as an example. Not Scientific, though a good example of empirical evidence to support this claim.
Do not fly medium/long distances using enclosed transport;
Avoid long-distant Public enclosed transport
I have no sympathy whatsoever for such people. If I were any of the other passengers, I would sue that fool instead of the company for ruining everyone's flight.
In the US, not following instructions from any member of the flight crew, including flight attendants, is a federal crime. They are there mainly for our safety. AA only banned that nasty woman from their flights, but they could have legally had her arrested for not following orders.
Most American airlines (all the majors) have put a policy in place that requires wearing a mask in boarding areas and on the aircraft. This is policy. There are also state and local laws which may mandate masks, so masks may be required in airports outside the rented boarding areas too. Masks must cover the mouth and nose. Seems a reasonable safety step with COVID-19 around the world.
Do you wear a seat belt when in a car?
I'm all for individual rights, until those rights put others in danger. Nobody forced the passenger to fly on that airline.
I was one of the late believers in masks, until the science came back from trusted sourced in my country. Face masks will probably become a world-wide choice by everyone who may be sick. In my state, laws will need to be changed to allow them to be worn, outside a pandemic situation. There are laws which prevent wearing of masks here due to historical reasons.
Any competent doctor or medical professional will tell you that the number one way viruses spread in the air is through droplets when someone sneezes, coughs or even when they are talking.
Now do a little experiment.
Take a spray bottle fill it with water point it at the window and spray.
Repeat the same thing this time with a standard mask in front of the spray nozzle.
Now see which way left more water on the window.
If that is to difficult to grasp then there is no hope. 1+1=2 not 3, 4 or 5
I think it's quite clear, if you support public safety and health, then you wear your mask; I don't want to hear about technicalities, and sympathy. Your are in a closed space, people are uncomfortable as it is, then there is always the chance that you will spread your saliva around, no one knows anything about you; stop being so demanding, show some consideration, and put your mask on.
It’s weird you’d have the confidence to comment as if you know what you’re talking about, when it’s clear you don’t even understand viral loads.
I’d be embarrassed to speak on things I was only a layman about as if I were an expert, knowing that experts would see right through me.
I guess some people are on with showing their lack of intelligence. I personally prefer to stick on things I know about to as to maintain credibility. I guess that’s just me.
Do you not understand the scientific method and peer review? Because that’s exactly how the scientific method works. Hypothesize, year, conclude, then peers test and come to the same conclusion. If they don’t, it’s not scientific. It’s literally how the process works.
Here is the problem with the Anti maskers.
They will look at the present studies and always find something they see as a fault.
They will say there is nothing conclusive no 100% proof.
Well in the medical world nothing and I mean nothing is 100% no medication, no treatment, no vaccine, no diet, nothing.
Actually in just about everything in life nothing is ever 100%.
Will wearing a seatbelt save your life in a car accident? Maybe but no guarantee chances are it will or it reduces the chance of being killed or seriously injured but like with mask seatbelts are not a guarantee of safety but we use them because the evidence points to a better chance of survival in an accident.
Does it hurt you to wear a mask? No.
It only hurts your blotted pride at being told to do so.
The only reason for not wearing a mask is out of overly self importance, self-centered, selfish and arrogance.
Do I like wearing a mask? No especially since I often have when working and I wear a full on R3 mask with filters and goggles.
So that makes me having to wear a mask far more than the average person.
But as a member of a civilised society and have simple respect for others as well as listing to the Vast majority of the same medical community, I wear one in public especially in confined spaces.
Stop thinking you are all so special, wear a mask.
Oh wow! So we can just ignore social distancing so long as we have masks on? Yep. Here it is September and I had no idea! Thanks for updating me!
And 10 minutes right next to someone without a mask is nothing so long as the next 50 minutes mask is on? That's going to be very helpful information as well! Thanks!
I now feel safe to go anywhere in Japan willy-nilly so long as I remember to bring my mask and wear it "sometimes". This is great! I feel so much better now! What a fool I have been, staying at home so much and watching what I touch.
I don’t understand such unnecessary overreacting. Isn’t it sufficient to continue the flight as planned and then arrest those violators at the destination airport? Unnecessary costs and rescheduling, in my eyes. The same for police cars or bikes, hunting traffic violators in high speed, bringing the suspect, themselves and bystanders into danger, sometimes with death tools on any side. The same here, it is sufficient to trace the suspect and collect him or her at the destination point, for example taking them out of bed at night, when they think they managed to trick the police. Believe me, it’s the same result, catching the violators and bringing them to justice, but without disturbing other citizens more than necessary,
The passenger was an idiot.
Peach are fools. Why did you let him depart? Why did you endure a 45 minute 'scene'...and then take off!
Kick him off the flight. It should take one refusal and he should be escorted off the plane.
Can anyone make out what he is actually saying on the video? He seems a lot more reasonable than I had imagined.
She was banned for the note though not for not wearing a mask.
Even in Japan you can't be arrested for something that's not officially illegal or be officially punished for breaking rules that don't actually exist, however much meaning might be conveyed differently in situations in everyday life.
It means that for 50 minutes out of an hour they are less likely to infect those around them. You obviously subscribe to the theory that if it doesn't work 100% then it isn't worth doing.
Covid is transmitted overwhelmingly by aerosols, such as the stuff that comes out of your gob rather than the stuff that you touch. So if you can prevent that then you reduce the risk of transmission. Masks do that. They are more useful to stop people spreading the virus than catching it. And he could be asymptomatic, as could you or I.
We're in September and you still don't know this basic stuff, it's been known for quite some time now.
A passenger on American Airlines refused to wear her mask over her nose. The flight attendants asked multiple times, she refused. On landing, the woman handed a nasty note to the flight attendant. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12603703/american-airlines-mask-nazi-letter/
That passenger has been banned from all American Airlines flights forever.
Everyone who has been in Japan knows they use softer wording when they really mean "mandatory." It causes westerners lots of confusion. Took me a few months to learn that "it is very difficult" meant - "cannot be done."
Thank you for the info.
The sad thing is all what this doctor is pointing out has been studied and proven by studies done in Japan including several done over multiple decades by Todai medical.
Unfortunately only now that some western studies are saying the same thing are western doctors and specialist are listening.
Oh no! Not the strongly worded warning letter!! Harsh!
Seriously though, when your ‘exercising your rights’ is at 180 degrees to everyone else’s, and treads all over everyone else’s, then you are not exercising your rights. You are being a massive a&@hole.
If you are not also practicing a reasonable amount of social distancing on an airplane then what good is a mask going to do? Do they serve food on the airplane? What then? If someone removes their mask to eat and they are eating right next to you for 10 minutes, guess what? Them wearing a mask for the next hour is going to accomplish precisely nothing. I find it incredible that a person was willing to travel from Hokkaido to Osaka, but took exception to sitting next to a guy not wearing a mask who apparently was not coughing or anything. Are they aware of just how much indirect contact they just had with people just for making that trip?
I am old enough to be in at least moderate risk of death from Covid 19. But you know what scares me? Unscheduled stops in an airplane. That just opens up all sorts of risk possibilities. There are so many things there that can go wrong. And then you have the unscheduled takeoff combined with late arrival. Just more added risks.
I am no supporter of the guy refusing to wear a mask. But it looks to me like the others involved just made a bad situation worse. But, you know, I am constantly looking at the world and complaining that people seem to have no sense of priority. And I guess that is part of how trolls get fed.
Well I would find a new doctor.
My wife's allergist, my daughter's allergist, mother in law's, sister in law's, my ex brother in law's and my son's asthma specialist all disagree and all recommend mask even the cheap pharmacy ones as they do reduce dust and pollen and it is far better less dust and pollen than nothing and inhaling it all.
And none have the same doctor.
I work in a job that often has large amounts of dust, dirt, saw dust etc...
Normally I use a proper safety mask but on occasion when I am out of proper safety masks or filters, I will use the standard simple surgical style mask.
No it dose not work as well as R3 safety masks but it is far better than nothing at all.
Simple logic breath in 100% of the dust or 50%
As for the
This has been debunked so many times it is surprising people still believe it.
Only case where this has any merit is with children as their immune system is still developing.
@Chikatilo and others
It's good that people are engaged and share what information they have. The object here is to bring the R-naught of this virus below 1. And to do that, we all have to pitch in. The virus affects us as a society, and we're going have to respond to it as a sociey. And yes, sometimes we have to do things that we might not agree with or we for some reason feel is uncomfortable. But just unloading opinion on fora quoting research without naming that research or naming any sources is, well, not very helpful.
Here is a little bit of science on masks for those who are able to listen attentively for 27 minutes. It's full of sources, some of them going all the way back to 1938. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DANEqOPcDwc
Trying to use logic with anti maskers and anti vaxxers is like herding cats.
They will always pull up some random more often than not discredited things to make it seem like they are right.
One thing is that cats are generally smart enough to sense danger and avoid it.
As a foreigner living in Japan for 15 plus years, I developed hay fever and severe house dust allergies. And every allergy specialist I have seen here or in my home country has told the same about masks: unless you are wearing the micromesh (can't remember the code name now... HB90? or something like that) the drugstore masks, surgical masks, fabric masks don't help you at all, they just reduce your oxygen intake by a tiny amount. So you are better off without a mask and taking nasal washes, taking allergy pills and MOST and best of ALL strengthening the immune system.
Which by the way is also the Best defense against Covid-19, your immune system!! Not masks.
On planes, I wear a mask with a drop of lavender or cedar oil in it, along with an eye-pillow and a hoodie pulled down over my face while listening to ocean waves or soothing music. Still looking for an essential oil that smells like a driftwood campfire..
Less than $5K fine to divert a plane full of passengers?
Sounds like that guy should count his lucky stars that he got off with such a bargain...
Exactly, you can't force anybody to comply with a "recommendation". Is that simple.
I do however, understand the outrage that for that sole fact a hundred and so people wasted their time and we're subjected to such stressful situation.
But I fault both the airline and the man. If it is a recommendation, don't try and force people to follow it, I would also take issue with being forced to do something that is not by definition compulsory or law. But for the sake of fellow passengers would be kind enough to disdainfully comply and post a official complaint. Now, I would also like and expect some empathy and reasonable understanding from fellow passengers: as much as you feel happy or even obliged to comply, it is not compulsory so you should be able to see my point of view. You cannot force people to do what is not compulsory. That same precept could apply to you in some other way some other day.
Finally, all you mask defenders, do research for yourselves beyond your common sources, the mask is not an obligation for anyone. The use of mask has been lambasted by several high profile medical professionals all over the world, this is the age of internet and globalization, look it up for crying out loud!! It has also recently being researched that wearing the mask increases the level of CO2 in the mouth cavity, leading to gum conditions, and on extreme cases drowsiness and decrease mental capacity.
The virus is real, and so all other issues that arise with it, be it with our freedoms, and with secondary effects of the the hastily taken actions like mask wearing, lockdowns, social distance... and conspiracy theories abound, but reality is worldwide people in power in many areas are abusing their powers.
All these issues matter, not just the virus, not just the mask. You may stave off the virus but be stuck with a dictatorial state. Is that life worth enduring, or would you rather die free.
Think for yourselves.
“Actually there is plenty of research proving masks reduce the spread of viruses.”
Nope. I could do this all day. Plenty of research that suggests they don’t
That's the key phrase, so leave the man alone and don't ruin his flight.
“The simple and best example is that in Asia respiratory specialist recommend that during high pollen periods people with asthma wear masks because it cuts down”
I’m referring to their use re Covid 19
That same false information has been presented by anti maskers.
All those studies are from western studies all are from studies concerning in hospital use by professionals in the medical field.
Not one is based on general public use in regards to avoiding spreading diseases in the general population.
Only Asia has done studies in this regard most only available in their respective languages and as with everything ignored by western medical groups, doctors, etc...
The simple and best example is that in Asia respiratory specialist recommend that during high pollen periods people with asthma wear masks because it cuts down the amount of dirt and pollen entering the lungs reducing the chance of having an asthma attack.
Plain logic in Asia proven in multiple studies.
But in the west doctors are saying people with asthma show refrain from wearing masks because they may restrict air flow.
Now one reason I can think of is money.
Doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies make far more prescribing and selling asthma inhalers than masks.
I agree that all passengers should wear a mask, BUT the airline is mostly at fault. They said 'recommend' not require.
I couldn't understand the man 100%, but that seems to be the argument he was making.
"recommends" is the operative word.
I'll venture a bet there is a hell of a lot of other things you dont hear about too!
The deputy UK medical advisor, lancet, WHO, and about 300 other papers presenters with pre-peer review and peer review conclude there is no conclusive evidence of paper mask effectiveness.
Also the same amount of studies reflect that masks if are proper, used correctly, and don’t include touching, changed after short time use, combined with social distancing and hand washing.
i think it is better to believe in free informed choice.
this pandemic is no joke.
In the video kindly provided by ewan, the Cabin Attendant appears to be holding a box of masks...most likely, she offered the passenger a FREE mask but he has refused (for whatever reason of personal rights or safety). If the CA had instead offered him a free can of Asahi Super Dry, would he have refused to drink it? Would the personal rights or safety of his liver have been endangered?
You wear a mask until you need to drink or eat?
Peach is a private company, if you don't like their rules, you and your freedom should walk to Hokkaido!
He wasn't offloaded because he wasn't wearing a mask, twas for being unruly
“The budget carrier, like all airlines in Japan, recommends passengers and crew to wear face masks to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus.”
they should rewrite the sentence.
Actually there is plenty of research proving masks reduce the spread of viruses.
Just because they are not done by some white western run group doesn't mean there aren't any.
Todai medical university has done several, as have several other Japanese, South Korean and Chinese top medical institutions.
But then again Asian so no western countries and few westerners are going to believe any Asian study.
People with common sense wear mask!
what I don’t understand is “all airlines recommend passengers and crew to wear face masks”
so it’s not required/mandatory?
I’m not sure if they will get their compensation.
The major airlines require it but the budget carriers do not.
What was the point?
No way they would've let him get away with it.
Well, at least he'll be blacklisted for this.
Ewan thanks for the video link!
They should taken a detour to North Korea and dropped him off there.
It is against regulations not to wear a mask but not against the law otherwise the man would have been arrested.
How long will it be before it is the ‘law’?
How long will it be before coughing once is ‘against’ the regulations?
How long will it be before not wearing a mask is punishable by ‘law’ ?
Not 1.5ms, 2ms or a metre from someone?
Oh dear, there is a fine for that!
Where will it stop?
In this case, all of those on the plane were wearing a mask so where was the problem?
There wasn’t one..,
Just to be clear, are you recommending that nothing at all be done about the virus?
It was a previously unknown virus so there was no prior researches done about it, scientific or otherwise
It's the airline that offers PEACH POINTS instead of monetary refunds for canceled flights due to the coronavirus.
Are they still around?
What a threat. That would scare the most wretched soul.
Isn't that a federal offense?
sigh................. Isn't this that the he has "Japanese Male High Pride" nonsense? If you translate that into simple English, it basically means "A-hole."
“It is not to protect the person wearing it, it is so the person wearing it who may be infected doesn't spread it to others.”
Faulty premise that has no conclusive scientific research to back it up
I haven't heard about mask fights as often here as I hear about in many other countries.
I assume the airline isn’t serving inflight beverages. Otherwise what’s the point?
Anyway, seems he thought they can't throw him out if he's already in.
People come in all shapes, colors, and levels of stupidity.
500,000 is too little considering the troubles and delays he caused. I think he should be fined and Jailed for a few weeks too.
Seem a bit much to me.
Is he a YouTuber like the man had done something stupid intentionally ?
How embarrassing. My wife would divorce me for this. I am surprised they didn't ban him for life like other airlines have to other similar passengers. Such a short time to inconvenience oneself to just wear a mask! Don't believe in masks? Tell that to your surgeon. (rolling my eyes)
The fine us far far to little.
But at the same time I expect he is now on all airlines no fly lists.
It is going to be interesting to see him try and return home from Niigata to Kushiro or Osaka which ever he lives in.
First of all, why does the airline not hand out surgical quality masks to each passenger and make them sign a document that they will wear the mask while aboard the aircraft or be denied entry. If you don't comply, the aircraft will not depart the station and that customer will be charged for all expense related to the delay and be removed from the flight. Where are the air marshals on this flight?
How after all these months has someone not understood the reasons and way wearing a mask works.
It is not to protect the person wearing it, it is so the person wearing it who may be infected doesn't spread it to others.
So the only people that refuse to wear a mask are people that are self-centered, selfish, uneducated, ignorant, etc.....
We live in a faceless AND spineless world now...
’destroy’ is a bit melodramatic don’t you think?
He had the right not to agree to the terms of carriage and ahem ‘destroyed’ a lot of other people’s rights to feel safer when they fly.
Proof that there are "covidiots" in Japan as well as everywhere else.
selfish twat should be fined 10 times that amount!
If people seriously believe they are protected if they wear magic masks, why destroy other peoples human rights if they don’t choose to wear masks?
There are times, very few mind you, that violence is the best option. A little “attitude adjustment” slap wouldn’t have gone amiss here.
I am going to bet the guy wore a mask when he got on the plane and then took it off, as the CA's are trained to stop passengers at the gate, prior to boarding, if they dont have a mask on.
I will also bet that the plane was on the flight line awaiting take-off as well, and noticed it, and waited until they were in the air to caution him and request him to put one on.
I give the CA's more credit here than some.
So it’s universal and not just a pro-Trump MAGA anti-masker issue. What has a pour world come to?
So someone did try it.
It was his right.
Now he knows that other people have rights too.
Great idea, Ulysses. Every other passenger should demand 500,000 of this idiot.
I also agree with Garypen. The idiot should have been removed from the plane before take off.
They should have just removed him prior to departure when he refused to wear a mask! The way this incident unfolded could have been easily avoided!
I wish other passengers also sue this idiot.
Good for the pilot. But, if the flight attendants had done their job properly, the plane would never have taken off with that a-hole on board to begin with.
It seems the crew only took action after enough passengers complained.
Another day, another man child.
The airliner crew could have denied him onboard prior to the departure. They have authority to practice for the sake of safe & comfortable flight (not merely meaning to avoid virus spread).
What an Idiot!
Ruining It For Everyone