Some remain skeptical as Japan set to roll out vaccines on Wednesday

As a Reuters article stated recently, Japan's vaccine fears are based on skimpy and questionable evidence. I suspect that if the vaccines were developed in Japan, the support rate would be much higher.

I'm hoping the ignorance doesn't delay Japan's ability to defeat the coronavirus...and hence my ability to take a long beach holiday in Thailand.

While I hope in the end everyone does take the vaccine, the skepticism is rooted in distrust in the government. And that is completely justified.

If you are offered a vaccine and don't take it, fine. If you get infected and end up in the hospital, good luck. If you infect someone who wants to be vaccinated but hasn't, either for health reasons, or they just haven't had their turn yet, and that person ends up in an ICU, it's your fault.

Every person over 65 who doesn't want a vaccine brings me closer to my turn. I just hope time is not wasted waiting for these people to get off the fence.

In contrast, only 49.5 percent of women in their 40s and 50s were willing, with this cohort also expressing the highest level of unwillingness with 40.9 percent saying they would not get a shot.

Believe women.

what? The public skeptical? Really? ....go figure

Not a problem at the beginning. Hopefully after the 63% have been vaccinated they have changed their minds also

If you don’t want the vaccine I guess you don’t mind being stuck in limbo the rest of your life, staying home, not being able to travel overseas. I’ll take my chances with the shot

I doubt the level of resistance to the vaccine in Japan is at the levels seen in the US,EU, UK. It's going to be there like everywhere but at the end of the day everyone needs to get vaccinated. Not that it will be the end all, but it's at least a start in fighting back against this pandemic.

Some? Or, Many?

@Ossam

Actually, the majority of people in the UK are against the vaccine.

70% of black Britons have declared they will not take it.

Something to do with "white babies fetus as one of the ingredients in the vaccine.

They heard it on social media, therefore it's true!

As you can see ignorance has no bounds.

no reasons to trust GOV and vaccine company. I give my shot to the CEO of Pfizer who did not take it...

japan's COVID-19 cases are relatively low compared with other countries, standing at around 415,000 in total with over 6,900 deaths.

It would be interesting to see data from the serological surveillance study, whether the spread of the virus is really low in Japan. Until now, Is there any data that has been published?

Medical experts say that around 80 percent of the population must have immunity against COVID-19, the respiratory illness caused by the coronavirus, through vaccinations or previous infections to reach herd immunity and start turning the tide against the virus.

But we already know from EXPERTS that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or spread, so how is this relevant .

hmdrpthkToday  09:33 am JST

japan's COVID-19 cases are relatively low compared with other countries, standing at around 415,000 in total with over 6,900 deaths.

It would be interesting to see data from the serological surveillance study, whether the spread of the virus is really low in Japan. Until now, Is there any data that has been published?

only fake data have been published. what else. why do you think medical people received bribes from your taxes??

Let’s ask that age old question of why smallpox and polio are no longer an issue.

@peeping_Tom

@Ossam

Actually, the majority of people in the UK are against the vaccine.

70% of black Britons have declared they will not take it.

Something to do with "white babies fetus as one of the ingredients in the vaccine.

They heard it on social media, therefore it's true!

As you can see ignorance has no bounds.

I see someone started the lies early this morning!

Historical issues of unethical healthcare research, and structural and institutional racism and discrimination, are key reasons for lower levels of trust in the vaccination programme, a report from Sage said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/16/covid-vaccine-black-people-unlikely-covid-jab-uk

White majority ruling countries have a history of experiment on POC without their consent! Those countries have done very little to gain POC 's trust!

A lawyer that can not use logic?!

There are instant lockdowns all over the world when a few people are found with the virus eg in Australia.

Why?

I have been out to work in Osaka many times on trains and in department stores, restaurants since this virus has been around.

Even a friend of mine (with the virus) came to my home for lunch and....

I am still fine-unbelievable!

And if the vaccine causes side effects, even 10 years down the road

That would still be 10 years later than the natural infection, that causes side effects right now and some of which remain for life.

no reasons to trust GOV and vaccine company. 

Irrelevant, scientists and health care professionals from all over the world vouch for the safety of the vaccine, only people deeply in denial of reality can think every health care association in the whole world is in a conspiracy to poison and kill their own family and friends.

It would be interesting to see data from the serological surveillance study, whether the spread of the virus is really low in Japan. Until now, Is there any data that has been published?

Up to this point there is no study, only the results of the serological tests giving less than 1% positivity.

But we already know from EXPERTS that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or spread, so how is this relevant .

No vaccine can guarantee prevention of infection that is not their purpose, and you are mistaken about the spread, one thing is not having evidence of reduction of the spread yet, another completely different is to say there is no reduction.

only fake data have been published. what else. why do you think medical people received bribes from your taxes??

Prove it, all medical and scientific organizations of the world say you are the one in the wrong. Do you have objective proof to contradict them?

Prove it, all medical and scientific organizations of the world say you are the one in the wrong. Do you have objective proof to contradict them?

There is plenty of proof out there-you choose to ignore it though!

>

no reasons to trust GOV and vaccine company. 

Irrelevant, scientists and health care professionals from all over the world vouch for the safety of the vaccine, only people deeply in denial of reality can think every health care association in the whole world is in a conspiracy to poison and kill their own family and friends.

Not irrelevant at all.

Relevant!

Very relevant!

Virusrex fails to account for thousands of deaths through faulty vaccines.

>

There are instant lockdowns all over the world when a few people are found with the virus eg in Australia.

Why?

I have been out to work in Osaka many times on trains and in department stores, restaurants since this virus has been around.

Even a friend of mine (with the virus) came to my home for lunch and....

I am still fine-unbelievable!

The difference being that if you were in Australia, not only you would be fine, so would everyone else around you.

Forget the dangers posed by a potential reaction to the Covid "vaccine". The far more significant danger is that the pseudo-vaccine will provide the next virus with a marker to target. 

Fortunately everything in the text you copied here is completely false, as easy to prove as the natural infection would produce frequently problems after being exposed again to the virus, and it is more than obvious this does not happen.

The whole thing tries to use the understandable ignorance of people to try to convince them of deeply illogical things, I would really recommend you to choose better sources of information.

Virusrex fails to account for thousands of deaths through faulty vaccines.

How would that make relevant recommendations not coming from the experts? and once again you are confusing people dying after being vaccinated (vaccines are not made with the purpose of making people immortal) and people dying because being vaccinated. The experts of the world say the vaccines are incomparably safer than COVID-19 infection, what data do you have to contradict them?

There is plenty of proof out there-you choose to ignore it though!

So much that you could not bring any? once again your whole point needs everybody to just trust every organization in the world is wrong and you are right... just because you say it?

As are most people around the world apart for those with underlying health problems or the elderly.

Writing ‘Covid’ on a death certificate doesn’t explain a death, it hides it.

In a local hospital to me, the relatives demanded to know why grandma had died.

They were sure that it couldn’t have been old age so the the doctor ‘falsely’ stated that it had been a mucal blockage in the airway!

In the US hospitals get incentives to write Covid on the death certificate.

Such shenanigans are like a mist obscuring the truth.

If there are any science denying idiots that don't want their vaccine, please let me know so that I can take it.

As are most people around the world apart for those with underlying health problems or the elderly.

No no, I didn't say "most", I said everyone around you. As in EVERYONE.

Writing ‘Covid’ on a death certificate doesn’t explain a death, it hides it.

No it does not, when people expected to live years or even decades with their conditions die shortly after the infection there is no other cause of death that is more appropriate than the infection.

If you have to reduce your arguments to hearsay to try and contradict the health professionals that actually have to deal with the patients it may be time to reconsider your beliefs. If you cannot get the data to prove your point, and that should be readily available should you be right, maybe is because that data does not exist.

So, if I die in car crash (US) and I happen to be found with the virus then what did I die of?

Blunt trauma or the virus?

But I will be counted as a Covid death, right!

Theres the logic for that.

And of course, Dengvaxia was purported safe by the experts until hundreds began dying from it-great to rely on expert opinion eh!

Where is all this going then?

Well, it is going to that unless you have been vaccinated then many services will be denied to you.Not only air travel but leisure, dining out and even work.

The COVI-PASS is the new paradigm and for those without the virus or the vaccine it will be game over...,

Better late than never.

It would be interesting to know, out of the 6,900 deaths, how many died of COVID-19 and how many died with Corona-virus? Same test with a big difference.

@Peepingtom

Actually, the majority of people in the UK are against the vaccine.

Given that around 22% of the UK population has been voluntarily vaccinated already, this is plainly nonsense.

So, if I die in car crash (US) and I happen to be found with the virus then what did I die of?

Blunt trauma or the virus?

But I will be counted as a Covid death, right!

Theres the logic for that.

Bring proof then this kind of case is a significative portion of the accounted deaths. How many times it has happened? zero? 10? a million times?

And of course, Dengvaxia was purported safe by the experts until hundreds began dying from it-great to rely on expert opinion eh!

Dengvaxia was scheduled by the experts to be used only on limited patients already infected by the problematic serotype until the government of Philippines jumped the gun and acted against the recommendations to gain political points, as a consequence it put patients at higher risk than what it was supposed to do against this serotype (but still a lower risk than if they got the natural infection of the other 3 serotypes) and more importantly the epidemiologists that raised the alarm were in the employment of the company developing the vaccine. This example actually proves you wrong in many ways.

Well, it is going to that unless you have been vaccinated then many services will be denied to you.Not only air travel but leisure, dining out and even work.

So it is going to what is already routine? there are countries where you cannot travel without proof of vaccination (yellow card) and services and jobs where you cannot participate without making yourself responsible for your health with vaccines (such as care of the elderly and sick patients).

The rest is again just your imagination running wild without even a single proof that you are able to predict the future.

The COVI-PASS is the new paradigm and for those without the virus or the vaccine it will be game over

But according to you getting the virus is nothing, right? rational people that listen to the opinion of the experts know the vaccine is much less risky than the infection, so there is no downside to be vaccinated, but you believe the virus is nothing to worry about so you can choose getting a million times more antigens of 2 dozen extra variety running in your body because you think that is safer, so you have no downside either right? so what is your complain?

It’s very hard for me to understand the Japanese government’s vaccine plan. 

First of all, there seems to be very little sense of urgency. According to Japanese law, imported medicines must be tested in Japan. So even though the vaccines that Japan will be importing have been through vigorous trials and all the data is readily available, Japan has to conduct their own clinical trials. 

Okay so now they have finally approved ONE vaccine. Now their plan is to vaccine 20,000 doctors and nurses and closely monitor their health and look for any side effects. Never mind that literally tens of millions of people have already received the Pfizer vaccine and that any adverse reactions are being actively studied, they are going to waste another month to do this monitoring. I guess it’s because there is a lot of vaccine skepticism here. In my opinion, the way to win over the skeptics is to vaccinate those who are willing and let the wait and see people see how the early adopters fare. 

So they will actually begin vaccinating the rest of the medical workers in mid March. 

As far as the Moderna vaccine, it’s believed that it will be approved and rolled out in mid to late May. 

In the mean time, both the UK and the South African variants are already present in the country. So by the time they get around to vaccinating the general population, a new vaccine will probably be necessary to deal with the variants. What are they going to do then? Start more clinical trials?

And they want to hold the Olympics in July? Good luck with that!

No it does not, when people expected to live years or even decades with their conditions die shortly after the infection there is no other cause of death that is more appropriate than the infection.

Hmmmm, interesting. So I guess you would agree with:

when people expected to live years or even decades ... die shortly after the injection there is no other cause of death that is more appropriate than the injection.

when people expected to live years or even decades ... die shortly after the injection there is no other cause of death that is more appropriate than the injection.

No, when the lethality is obviously higher than in people without the injection then it becomes a valid target of suspicion. If they die in the same proportion as in the general population (something obviously not happening with the COVID-19 infection) then the cause is much more likely something different.

While I hope in the end everyone does take the vaccine, the skepticism is rooted in distrust in the government. And that is completely justified.

If the root problem of skepticism is "distrust in the government", why it is manifesting itself in rejection of only one particular aspect of medical science?

Why do people who "distrust government" keep re-electing the same people? Why do women in their forties and fifties, many who will be mothers, keep sending their kids to juku and obsessing over their test scores? Why not skepticism over government-driven education, the legal system, electoral politics....? Japanese people are famous for going to hospital for minor issues like a cold, minor cut, or stomach upset. Why no skepticism over the cocktail of five different medicines a doctor gives your child for a cold?

Or in tl:dr terms, why question vaccines and not question everything else?

Anyone needing hospital treatment for covid after refusing the vaccine WITHOUT a good reason should be charged the full price of their treatment plus a penalty fee . Stupidity should have consequences.

Not many people will take the vaccine for valid reasons not least side effects

I'm not taking it, whoever wants my dose can go ahead and have it.

I fully support you on this.

I don't support anti-vaxxers. Just you.

Most of skeptical people here will do it. The reason is social pressure.

Anyone needing hospital treatment for covid after refusing the vaccine WITHOUT a good reason should be charged the full price of their treatment plus a penalty fee . Stupidity should have consequences.

As long as nothing is legally mandatory, and people do pay their health insurance, why should they pay for the treatment. Do people pay now when they get covid, even if they are not vaccinated ?

The good reason is being not a person at risk, under 65 and healthy.  Now in Japan, many get the flu shot, without knowing that the ministry recommendations are : vaccination for people over 65, or over 60 is health issues

Is there a reason why we still have to wait until Wednesday?

virusrex: "Irrelevant, scientists and health care professionals from all over the world vouch for the safety of the vaccine, only people deeply in denial of reality can think every health care association in the whole world is in a conspiracy to poison and kill their own family and friends."

Completely relevant, only your quick dismissal of the facts is what's irrelevant, as is your ability to sway anyone. Japan has a long history of forcing vaccines on people and then those people experiencing extreme side-effects, like when the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine here led to increased ascetic meningitis, and forcing little girls to take vaccines for the human papillomavirus despite it not having been thoroughly tested and waiting (they were quite proud of forcing it on the little girls, in fact), and then many of the little girls suffering SEVERE side-effects (didn't a couple even die?), and then of course the courts in the 80's saying "The government will be responsible for any side-effects... but... ummm... any side-effects will be considered adverse events and the government not responsible."

So, once again, hesitancy and a lack of trust in the government is perfectly relevant, regardless of you just dismissing it. The choice is with the people, no matter how much you try to deny them that, and as such, it your insistence that is irrelevant.

It’s very possible you will need proof of vaccination to board a plane and enter other countries.

you probably got all sorts of vaccinations as a kid that you aren’t even aware of. Aren’t you glad your mother had the common sense?

@smithinjapan Spot on!!!

Completely relevant

Again, if the experts are in consensus about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines what is the relevance of politicians doing the same? It is completely irrelevant. The history of the Japanese politics is also completely irrelevant.

What if the Japanese politicians support the microbial theory of infection? would their corruption and oppression somehow make this less correct? that is what i means that their recommendation is irrelevant, the real important support comes from the experts which vouch for the safety according to the best possible standards up to today.

like when the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine here led to increased ascetic meningitis,

Even if that were the case (and for mRNA vaccines this is not realisitically possible) it would be still a much less incidence of serious problems than what the risk of natural infection of COVID-19 bring.

and forcing little girls to take vaccines for the human papillomavirus despite it not having been thoroughly tested and waiting (they were quite proud of forcing it on the little girls, in fact), and then many of the little girls suffering SEVERE side-effects (didn't a couple even die?),

Completely wrong, you end up making the exact same mistake than the officials that stopped support of the vaccines by faulty evidence. Girls had severe problems with or without the vaccine in the same incidence, because vaccines are not meant to protect them from every single kind of danger that could happen to them. On the other hand stopping the recommendation (no one was ever forced to take it) lead to an excess of deaths that is well documented. Are you going to assume the responsibility of these deaths for your mistaken argument? Promoting irrational fears contradicting scientific data has a cost in lives.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(20)30047-5/fulltext

So, once again, hesitancy and a lack of trust in the government is perfectly relevant,

No, it is not relevant at all, because the basis for the determination of the safety and efficacy of the vaccines do not depend at all on what the Japanese government thinks or says, but on the consensus of the experts of the whole world about vaccines developed under more scrutiny than any other drug product in human history.

@ Thomas Goodtime

Why would Japanese want to get a vaccine just to come to Hawaii??? I would think that there are more important reasons for getting the vaccine (e.g. protecting ourselves and our loved ones) not because we would want to hop a plane and vacation in Hawaii.

I live here in Hawaii, and most of us locals are not wanting to be overrun by Japanese at this time. We don't mind visitors, but considering how they were flocking here and clogging up our streets, malls and restaurants pre COVID, we are happy to, for the most part now, have the islands to ourselves.

My suggestion is to get the vaccine and stay home. Let's take this slow and not jump the gun. We are still not completely out of the woods yet.

In the 80s all the scientists and health care professionals vouched for the safety of countless food additives and artificial colorings.

They were all wrong! We know now that the artificial additives and colorings led to serious health problems for countless numbers of children.

And what do you think was used to discover the risks? magic crystal balls?

It was science, that endlessly increase the efficacy of the methods used to describe reality, those methods also discovered the dangers of perfectly natural foods and remedies that were used without knowing it since ancient times. Science is why humans are more healthy in modern times than any other point in human history, specially when talking about infectious diseases, You think differently? then bring the data that vaccines are less safe than the infection, just saying "it may have problems in the future..." simply has no importance, after all maybe COVID-19 could have effects on aggressivity in the future (after all we already know it can affect the brain) so, does this "maybe" is enough for you to make the vaccine absolutely compulsory? or would you first want the data to prove it?

It's not that everybody was "in a conspiracy to harm their family and friends", they weren't cautious enough in their testing

So it is not that all the professionals in the world are in a sinister conspiracy but that they are all completely incompetent at their jobs? and people without any knowledge of the topic nor evidence of their imaginary dangers are better at it than them? that is just switching from an impossible theory to another impossible theory, again bring the data to prove it or accept you have no basis to say they are wrong.

@kurisupisu

The issuance of a COVID PASS is part of the AGENDA21. THEY want us all inoculated in order to gain control of us and monitor all that we do. This vaccine is analogous with THE CHIP. Take it and you lose. I would rather be deprived of all my freedoms than be a slave to their agenda.

Dengvaxia was scheduled by the experts to be used only on limited patients already infected by the problematic serotype until the government of Philippines jumped the gun and acted against the recommendations to gain political points, as a consequence it put patients at higher risk than what it was supposed to do against this serotype (but still a lower risk than if they got the natural infection of the other 3 serotypes) and more importantly the epidemiologists that raised the alarm were in the employment of the company developing the vaccine. This example actually proves you wrong in many ways.

@Virusrex

What am I wrong about?

The fact that 100s of children got sick and died?

Or maybe I am wrong that it was the Red Cross administering the fatal vaccines?

And am I wrong that virus was discontinued due to the families coming out and objecting to their children becoming sick?

Where were the clinical trials conducted by the company and why were these side effects not flagged?

Why were vaccines released to the general population without any safeguards?

You blame the government but how do vaccines get placed into those ready to dispense them?

If aí give a loaded gun to a child and someone dies do I blame the child?

Similar shenanigans happened in India with another ‘reputable’ company which was ordered to leave and the same has occurred in other countries.

@Strangerland

Good to see you enjoying the thread!

This vaccine is not truly a vaccine, but a gene therapy. Instead of stimulating the immune system with a weakened form of the disease to generate immunity, which is what measles, small pox, and other vaccines have always done, this COVID treatment inserts genetic information into your cells to cause your own cells to produce spike proteins similar to what a coronavirus uses to infect, which in turn produces an antibody response. It’s an mRNA treatment that alters your cells to produce viral proteins, which is completely new to virology.

However, as Pfizer, the American CDC, and others admit, it does not provide immunity. A person can still catch and transmit COVID. The treatment is only effective at reducing serious symptoms. Herd immunity still relies on millions of people catching COVID, but hopefully fewer need hospitalization.

The only immunity this vaccine provides is legal immunity to the pharmaceutical company that produced it...and therein lies the trust problem.

Earlier on he was saying we should trust experts' advice and govt for whatever reason , and yet here he points out at least one exact reason why not to because it suits his argument.

Quote exactly where did I say that you have to blindly trusts the government specifically, If you need to pull out imaginary things to discuss against maybe that is because you cannot contradict what is actually being said. I recommend you to read more carefully to avoid contradicting things nobody have said.

What am I wrong about?

None of the children got sick and died by a direct effect of the vaccine, they were incompletely protected against a know complication of the disease and only for one serotype of the virus, for the other 3 they were protected as planned, for any person that already had the problematic serotype infection they were protected without problem of the hemorrhagic disease, and even for those that were completely naïve to infection the vaccine still protected them of complications against 3 of the serotypes efficiently and only incompletely against the fourth, which still is not acceptable but not as you misrepresent. Their risk was much lower than if left to be infected by the 4 serotypes, which in the country is just a matter of time, In those countries where the fourth serotype is not present the vaccine can still be used.

You are wrong when implying that the administration was done as recommended by the safety parameters agreed for the vaccine, no matter who did it.

You are wrong when saying that it was the families the ones that caused the vaccine to be stopped, because the protection from complications was never intended to be absolute so complications were still expected in some of the people when infected, the ones that gave the alarm that complications were not acceptable were the epidemiologist working for the pharmacological company.

The clinical trials were performed as recommended, and they were enough to authorize a limited and controlled vaccination program because of the increased risks of the population, a scientific recommendation that was not followed by the government. The side effects were still in the process of being eliminated as a realistic possibility.

The government is the one that gives permission to run trials and is responsible to organizing the vaccination, they have a very strong responsability of not following the recommendations of the experts including the pharmaceutical company. Which by the way did not just let it be done without any safety protocols, why did you think they epidemiologist were actively collecting data on complications? as a hobby? No, they were doing it as par to the safety mechanisms to prevent as much as possible the unexpected but yet to be completely discarded problems.

So yes, you got wrong quite a lot of things.

The issuance of a COVID PASS is part of the AGENDA21. THEY want us all inoculated in order to gain control of us and monitor all that we do

Poe's law is always a comment away from being relevant.

This vaccine is not truly a vaccine, but a gene therapy. 

That is a false myth, the vaccine do not regulate nor change the genomic information of the host cell in any way. Saying that making the cell express mRNA is a "gene therapy" is also wrong, because all the attenuated virus vaccines (including the first one) do that, only less safely.

It is also nothing new to virology, viral vectors do that all the time, viruses do it all the time, including many that are not even pathogenic to the humans. What do you think attenuated virus vaccines do to produce proteins?

The only immunity this vaccine provides is legal immunity to the pharmaceutical company that produced it...and therein lies the trust problem.

This is also completely false, companies can still be subjected to penalties, cancellations of the approval or even criminal charges if they deliver a defective product or cheat on the approval process, that is the opposite of being immune from consequences. Why do you think every single lot of vaccines is checked by the governments of the world to assure safety and efficacy?

Oh please, the coronavirus has been around for one year so you have no evidence for that rolls eyes

Unless people can grow a new brain or pancreas there is more than enough evidence for that. Some people do have permanent consequences of the infection, it has been proved already.

the vaccine do not regulate nor change the genomic information of the host cell in any way.

This is deceptive, virusrex. The mRNA treatment does not enter the nucleus of the cell and alter nuclear DNA, but it does alter RNA within the cell. If it did not, then the cell would lack the information to produce a spike protein. It is false to say that genetic information is not altered “in any way.” The shot would have no effect in the body if it didn’t alter genetic information.

This is deceptive, virusrex. The mRNA treatment does not enter the nucleus of the cell and alter nuclear DNA, but it does alter RNA within the cell

Try reading more slowly, genomic is not the same as genetic. Nor introducing a genetic sequence is the same as altering the genetic information of the cell.

If you bring your condiments to a restaurant to make your own version of a dish, did you alter the menu? Obviously not.

The natural infection does the same (introducing new mRNA) just a million times more and for two dozens extra proteins, but you will not read anywhere that the virus is altering the genetic information of the cell, because that would be mistaken.

This vaccine is not truly a vaccine, but a gene therapy. 

That is a false myth, the vaccine do not regulate nor change the genomic information of the host cell in any way. Saying that making the cell express mRNA is a "gene therapy" is also wrong...

Well according to:

https://doi.org/10.3390/pharmaceutics12020102

"... mRNA-based therapeutics are categorized as gene therapy."

Anyone needing hospital treatment for covid after refusing the vaccine WITHOUT a good reason should be charged the full price of their treatment plus a penalty fee . Stupidity should have consequences.

How about those who chose to take the vaccine and suffer serious adverse effects.

How those who chose to each crap or not exercise or smoke or .... and get sick (diabetes, cancer, autoimmune, covid,...)

Try reading more slowly, virusrex. Nowhere did I say that the treatment alters genomic DNA. What I said is that it alters genetic information in the cell, which is 100 percent accurate. You’re the one who substituted “genomic,” where I had clearly said “genetic.” What I was pointing out is that you are obfuscating the discussion by shifting terms.

And, yes, as Raw Beer cites, this is categorized as gene therapy. A cell lacks the RNA to produce a protein. This treatment introduces that RNA into the cell, causing the cell to alter behavior and produce the new protein. This process has been experimented with in various health fields for years, but it is utterly new to use this gene therapy process as a vaccine, and it does not fit the conventional definition of vaccines.

You’re also wrong about legal liability. Before development, companies received special government protection from liability. Yes, if they screw up and deliver a tainted batch, they could still be liable for damages. But if someone reacts adversely to the shot, or if long-term side effects appear, pharmaceutical companies are fully shielded from liability suits for this COVID treatment.

It really doesn’t matter so much. Herd immunity can’t be reached, new mutants come and go, putting this or future vaccines in question, the economy is already dead anyway, if not from corona then afterwards killed by the climate change religion, and last but not least, we all die with or without corona and with or without vaccinations. Take a dice, if you’re not sure what to do.

Well according to:

https://doi.org/10.3390/pharmaceutics12020102

"... mRNA-based therapeutics are categorized as gene therapy."

Yes, the overly inclusive (for purposes of control) definition of Europe makes a lot of things "gene therapy" including anything that has nucleic acid contamination or even attenuated virus vaccines. That does not change that mRNA has no possibility of integrating into the genome of the cells (so it is not gene therapy in the US or Japan). Making the rest of the argument also false.

Try reading more slowly, virusrex. Nowhere did I say that the treatment alters genomic DNA. What I said is that it alters genetic information in the cell, which is 100 percent accurate. You’re the one who substituted “genomic,” where I had clearly said “genetic.” What I was pointing out is that you are obfuscating the discussion by shifting terms.

But that is precisely what I did say, so you corrected something that nobody said, much less me. What is the purpose of that? did it just came to your mind and wanted to tell me about it? Read what you yourself quoted from my comment, why quote genomic and begin to talk about genetic? that would mean it is you who shifted terms, specifically a term I did not use because the one I did is much more precise.

And, yes, as Raw Beer cites, this is categorized as gene therapy... This treatment introduces that RNA into the cell, causing the cell to alter behavior and produce the new protein.

Only in Europe, not in the US nor in Japan (the country this article is talking about). According to your definition all attenuated vaccines are also gene therapies, including the first one ever discovered. That obviously makes no sense.

and it does not fit the conventional definition of vaccines.

Yes it does, "A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease." It is a vaccine for all the scientific and medical institutions of the world, so you saying the contrary does not have the same weight at all. Until you can prove they are all wrong you have to accept it is a vaccine.

You’re also wrong about legal liability. Before development, companies received special government protection from liability. Yes, if they screw up and deliver a tainted batch, they could still be liable for damages. But if someone reacts adversely to the shot, or if long-term side effects appear, pharmaceutical companies are fully shielded from liability suits for this COVID treatment.

That is still false, liability is a general term that includes many things, including many kinds of responsibility, you are talking about one single kind, which is being sued by particulars, this is specifically avoided by the government absorbing this liability (so it does not just disappear) so a safe and effective health intervention is protected from excessive litigation, that could make impossible to implement it even if it never loses a single case, but also to the benefit of the particular claimants, because they no longer have to prove the vaccine is the only possible cause of the damage (something impossible to do in most cases), under this system they only need to prove this is a possibility (much easier to do) in order to receive compensation.

And again, out of the many different kinds of liability only one is being absorbed by the government, for the benefit of the public health, saying that companies do not have liability in general is still false, they do.

I believe it was in early March of 2011 that 4 young boys died in Japan in quick succession after getting a "safe, tested and approved" vaccine.

Luckily for Big Pharma, (but not for everybody else) the big earthquake hit and the issue get swept off the headlines.

So you already decided the vaccine is the cause, even if you don't have any evidence, and you believe that medical investigations are only conducted as long as there is a headline?

How about mentioning the very serious health conditions the children had? or the incidence of death of children with this kind of problems even if not vaccinated with those vaccines? The experts have no responsibility of accepting they are wrong when you are much more likely to be the one mistaken.

Reality check... "experts" have no idea about the finer inner workings of the human body.

But you do? using misleading and incomplete information instead of properly curated data indicates exactly the opposite.

@virusrex

Regarding HPV, you said...

Completely wrong, you end up making the exact same mistake than the officials that stopped support of the vaccines by faulty evidence. Girls had severe problems with or without the vaccine in the same incidence, because vaccines

I'm not sure that it was "faulty evidence" but rather different evidence. The article below has this in its concluding statement: "the adverse effects to HPV vaccines must be re-evaluated, since the initial clinical trials of the first vaccines were tested in different populations than women in Latin America or Japan"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5967601/

I'm not sure that it was "faulty evidence" but rather different evidence

From the article you are commenting in

The HPV vaccine is universally recognized as safe, with the World Health Organization setting a global target for the 2020-2030 period of 90 percent of girls being inoculated with the vaccine by age 15.

and from the article I already linked to

The so-called vaccine crisis, which led to a rapid drop in HPV vaccination from over 70% uptake in 2013 to current rates of less than 1%,8 is estimated to be responsible for 5000–5700 cervical cancer deaths among girls born between 1994 and 2007 who missed vaccination

Your article simply insist again in the incidence of complex regional pain syndrome and other badly defined syndromes and it does not even makes a clear association with the vaccine only leaving it as a possibility that could be examined if the definitions were changed (without giving a specific way to do it), They themselves mention clearly " The The Global Advisory Committee for the Safety of Vaccines has also found no evidence of causality between the HPV vaccine and SDRC or STPO, and considers that there is still no evidence suggestive of a causal association for the various symptoms (including pain and motor dysfunction) after reviewing data obtained from surveillance in Japan."

This nebulous suspicions led to the calculated excess of more than 5000 preventable deaths, even if the suspicions were true (something very far from being demonstrated) that would not even be close to justify the Japanese refusal to recommend the vaccines.

It's impossible to make a clear association with the vaccine, thus if you get "complex regional pain syndrome" after the vaccine how are you going to prove whether the vaccine caused it or not.

No, the important part is why it is impossible to make a clear association, this has nothing to do with the mechanism or process of the disease, instead it is because people not vaccinated have the same incidence, so if they have the same chances of getting the problem with or without the vaccine is illogical, irrational to blame the vaccine.

There are many health problems without a clear etiology to solve, that doesn't make it difficult to find out that people get that problem completely independently if they were vaccinated. To make an epidemiological relationship is not needed at all to understand how that relationship works, the same happens to conclude that this relationship doesn't exist.

People claim to want a society with "diversity and inclusion" but they actually want uniformity and exclusion.

When it comes to protecting against disease, you're damn right we want uniformity.

Reality check... "experts" have no idea about the finer inner workings of the human body.

Right! It's not like they've mapped the human genome, and figured out ways to protect people against naturally occurring viruses on a cellular level or anything, right?

...oh, wait.

People will get vaccinated if it helps them live a normal life. The most vulnerable should get it unless they want to live the rest of their lives in hiding.

Also, 80% is probably too high. 50% is the likely threshold for herd immunity. But I think that number is irrelevant soon. If you give people the option for vaccination and they don't want it, that's their choice.

Also, 80% is probably too high. 50% is the likely threshold for herd immunity.

The scientists are saying otherwise, but unsupported anonymous internet poster definitely has more credibility than they do.

If there are any science denying idiots that don't want their vaccine, please let me know so that I can take it.

Relax. You're near the front of the line to receive a vaccine already.

"Prove it, all medical and scientific organizations of the world say you are the one in the wrong. Do you have objective proof to contradict them?"

Maybe he has gut feelings...lol.