Worry, frustration, uncertainty as state of emergency looms for Tokyo, neighboring prefectures

What’s the point? The government has no legal power to enforce a SOE anyway and most people will ignore it. That’s why most of the bars were BAU and still open in Shibuya last April until 3am.

Gaijinland

The government is ready to send a new bill to the diet "tokusoho" which legalize punishment to violators. However, the law has to provide compensations for law abiders.

Simian Lane

An alarm? What do you mean by an “alarm”?

Do you mean like in George Orwell’s “1984”?

Where is the compensation then?

The government has been instrumental in spreading the virus with its campaigns of encouraging people to freely mix and mingle!

And now their declarations will Crush jobs.

Unbelivable Japan!

The government has to change the constitution to get people to be smart and help themselves avoid the plague of 2020. How wonderful!

I and many others have lost our jobs due to the effect the pandemic has had on business

Another lockdown will cause more job losses, but what is the alternative?

We are now forced to live on a ridiculously low income from Hello Work and told to find new jobs, when there are none, but what is the alternative?

If you don’t have underlying conditions and you get COVID it’s no worse than the flu. Do we really need to decimate small business and create poverty, mental health problems and increased suicides.

The media keeps repeating the mantra of fear and unfortunately most people seem to have become inacapable of critical thinking.

The original forecasts of masses of people dying never came to fruition, on top of that flu cases are significantly down, go figure!

For my personal life it makes no different if we Have a SOE or not.

My company refuses Telework, so me and I guess 10.000.000 other People in Tokyo have to continue to commute by packed morning and evening trains.

And I will continue to support my 2 favorite Mom and Pops Izakaya in my neighbourhood by visiting them before 8pm or by Take out food.

The only concern I have is that the school will also close. Then my wife should stay home and take care of our kid. And she will lose her income and probably her job

This SOE will destroy many life existence in private and in businesses if the government dont pay a big amount of compensation money.

And that is a very sad situation.

Only people who are not effected by losing income , losing their job, or losing business can take the SOE easy, and can say, Yes we urgently need a SOE.

For all other people it is a very tough life situation if you dont know how to bring food on the people.

I feel very very sorry for these people, and I hope they will survive this next SOE.

.

"Japan Innovation Party"

haha Japan and innovation should not be used in the same sentence, unless innovation is described as following other countries' leads.

bo

If you are a Japanese, you can apply for "seikatsu hogo" social welfare payment. I think it is about 150,000 yen per month. Anyway, the weaknesses of capitalism is revealed in the crisis. Capitalism hand in hand with individualism requires self responsibility.

"It is true that some people will face difficulty in maintaining their livelihoods if economic activities stop, but the most important issue is to ensure that the medical system will not collapse. We hope this will lead to a decrease in cases," said a Tokyo metropolitan government official.

Other countries have found the formula to maintaining livelihoods under strict lockdowns: paying 70% or 80% of the rents of shut down businesses and the same percentage of the salaries of furloughed or laid off workers for the duration. Why in the 3rd largest eceonomy in the world is it difficult to come to this conclusion?

And to bypass the constitutional restrictions to lockdown measures it could come in the form of an incentivization program with subsidies for following lockdown guidelines and fines for violations .

Oh dear. If only the government had say, a 6 month window to prepare in the event that the pandemic continues and even worsens. Shame. There must not have been enough time with the "Go To" campaigns that the government must have no choice but to do this now.

WHO Official: Lockdowns Should Not Be the Primary Strategy To Control COVID

https://www.westernjournal.com/official-lockdowns-not-primary-strategy-control-covid/

Published October 10, 2020

@ vanityofvanities/bo

Seems select non-Japanese are also eligible for 'seikatsu hogo'.

Source (scroll down to 'who can apply'): https://jn8.jp/en/life_list/2599/

Is 'seikatsu hogo' different from the financial support one can get from Hello Work?

Isn't the nationwide Go To Travel campaign due to resume and be extended next Tuesday?

Also some Chinese and Taiwanese tourists are making preparations for visiting Japan during the Chinese new year celebrations next month. Will their tours be affected?

tamanegi

"Shitsugyo teate" financial support for unemployed is handled by Hello Work and "seikatsu hogo" by Welfare and Labor Ministry.

The latest campaign: Go To State of Emergency.

Also some Chinese and Taiwanese tourists are making preparations for visiting Japan during the Chinese new year celebrations next month

They'll be safer staying where they are. Why risk catching the virus in Japan?

Japanese border closure is only until January 31st.

vanityofvanitiesToday  08:01 am JST

bo

If you are a Japanese, you can apply for "seikatsu hogo" social welfare payment. I think it is about 150,000 yen per month. Anyway, the weaknesses of capitalism is revealed in the crisis. Capitalism hand in hand with individualism requires self responsibility.

The weaknesses of capitalism? You’re aware that it’s government interference that’s exacerbating this crisis, aren’t you?

I refuse to stay home unless I get paid to do so. Many of us don't have the luxury of being able to "work" from home.

I'm sure that everyone here understands that this SOE is asking dining establishments to close at 8pm..for a month... for 4 prefectures.

Not schools closing, buisnesses closing, transportation being stopped and the Self defense force patrolling the streets.

Not really a SoE but rather a voluntary based curfew.

Nothing changing during the daytime.

The government has no legal power to enforce a SOE anyway 

I like the government not having martial law powers, and would prefer them not being introduced just to stop some stubborn people going to the pub during a pandemic. Vaccines are available now and the end is already coming into sight.

https://www.westernjournal.com/official-lockdowns-not-primary-strategy-control-covid/

That's from the Spectator, a very right wing news source. The WHO bloke simply says that lockdowns should be used selectively when hospitals are near full and cases are increasing, which is where we are now. It appears that if you act early enough with lesser measures, you can avoid much harsher ones (closing schools etc.) later on. Strict lockdowns are the result of earlier failures (including preparing your medical system), not something anyone happily chooses to do in a vacuum.

For all the pro-SoE out there, invest abut half an hour of your time to have a look at this statistical analysis of the effectiveness of lockdowns and masks, taking into account seasonal variations and past years for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vAQyVlXzU

There's also a comment about Japan's high vitamin D levels and metabolic health, particularly among older people, compared to certain other countries. This could help to explain why Japan's death rate has been far lower than that most other countries. And the death rate is a far more important measure than simply the number of cases.

Small number of death in relation is like China reported there people’s death as non COVID-19 related to The Who. Doctor can say he died from heart failure and that’s it. Wouldn’t get counted to the covid death toll

The video that @kyronstavicToday (10:07 am JST) is biased and confusing, couldn't watch it entirely, its a waste of time.

It even contradicts itself when uses the Prof Neil Ferguson to make a point about the "dubious legality" of lockdowns. And forgets to mention that the Prof states: - [...] it became clear it was an effective policy.

(4:09 min) https://youtu.be/p_vAQyVlXzU?t=243

There's nothing more sad than a denier that contradicts itself.

We are now forced to live on a ridiculously low income from Hello Work and told to find new jobs, when there are none, but what is the alternative?

Yahoo Auction, Mercari and eBay always have positions open. It helped me a whole lot while at home.

Doesn’t sound much different to any other day in Tokyo

I suppose you have a point. Now having slept well I think it really is the schools closure that will hurt.

If the schools stay open we'll be fine. Even if the SoE lasts until March ( I think it will )

bokudaToday  10:39 am JST

The video that @kyronstavicToday (10:07 am JST) is biased and confusing, couldn't watch it entirely, its a waste of time.

It even contradicts itself when uses the Prof Neil Ferguson to make a point about the "dubious legality" of lockdowns. And forgets to mention that the Prof states: - [...] it became clear it was an effective policy.

(4:09 min) https://youtu.be/p_vAQyVlXzU?t=243

There's nothing more sad than a denier that contradicts itself.

You might need to sharpen up your comprehension skills, but I do appreciate that you did look.

Anyway, you cherry-picked Ferguson's own statement without quoting the entire part that Ivor Cummings had taken. Here it is for everyone to see, from the interview in The Times (Dec 26, 2020)

Sage...had watched as China had enacted this innovative intervention in pandemic control that was also a medical invention. "They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was skepical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy." Then, as infections seeded across the world, springing up like angry boils on the map, Sage debated, nevertheless, whether it would be effective here. "It's a communist, one-party state, we said. We couldn't get away with it in Europe, we thought"..." And then Italy did it. And we realised we could."

Bokuda, how can you claim the video is biased if you didn't even watch the whole thing? It only shows your own bias. You haven't bothered to check the video for contextual information, so your criticism can't be taken seriously.

History since April last year has shown that the lockdowns in the UK and Europe have failed, yet they're continuing with this failed practice. We don't know the true situation in China because that country is even more dishonest with its numbers than Western and Japanese governments. And Ferguson is the same one who made all those doomsday predictions based on his faulty modeling, yet the mainstream media an governments still take him seriously. But this quote is the killer:

Sage debated, nevertheless, whether it would be effective here. "It's a communist, one-party state, we said. We couldn't get away with it in Europe, we thought"..." And then Italy did it. And we realised we could."

And they still failed. What does that say about the approach? Not a lot positive. But it does suggest Sage and the like approve of a totalitarian crackdown. Of course, Ferguson and his ilk would be exempt. Isn't he the same one who was caught earlier this year breaking the lockdown earlier this year to sneak out for an illicit tryst?

Another example of rules for thee. Any wonder more and more people are growing skeptical about this pandemic and see it as a way a bunch of people are taking advantage of it to grab power?

Yet again, another article where the opposition and media don't raise the issue of slow vaccine rollout and lack of preparation. Late Feb is too late to be starting. This wasn't raise in the press conferences I saw (admittedly only 'highlights', not the whole thing).

@kyronstavic

Sage debated, nevertheless, whether it would be effective here. "It's a communist, one-party state, we said. We couldn't get away with it in Europe, we thought"..." And then Italy did it. And we realised we could."

... and you're even more biased. This is the killer quote:

"They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy."

Prof Neil Ferguson is clearly a pro-lockdowns, and not an anti-lockdowns as the article tries to force.

Another example of rules for thee. Any wonder more and more people are growing skeptical about this pandemic and see it as a way a bunch of people are taking advantage of it to grab power?

What do you mean by ‘skeptical about the pandemic’? Give us the details. Who is getting more skeptical?

I’m intrigued.

How ironic that a few stories down is a title declaring only "200 days until the Olympics." The Center Test---a cluster event if there ever was one--is still planned to go on as scheduled even though elementary school schools are to be closed. This is such a sham. The only people supporting a lockdown are those who will get their full salaries while "staying home and staying safe." There has been no serious mention of compensation for those who must bear the financial burden of this shut down that has not been proven to be effective---again for the second time in less than a year. Again and again we hear the apocalyptical numbers of infected without being told how many of them are asymptomatic and the justification for this travesty is that, well, we have to do every possible thing to protect every possible life and if it saves one life then it is worth it (as long, of course, I can get my full salary while I stay home and virtue signal). To put this in perspective, every year 30,000-plus people commit suicide and that number FAR exceeds the number in Japan who have died from this virus. Those numbers along with DV, mental illness and a bevy of other problems that do not have a hysterical mass media squawking about them are exploding as we speak. Of course the vast number of people who have "died" from Covid have also had preexisting conditions but we don't like to talk about that either! God, what a farce!

It’s as useful as declaring sunshine for tomorrow. lol

What do you mean by ‘skeptical about the pandemic’? Give us the details. Who is getting more skeptical?

And what are they skeptical about? That the pandemic even exists?!

"Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga's "suggestion Monday that the government may* soon declare a state of emergency"

"Opposition parties criticized the decision as too little, too late"

Decision? What decision??

"Suga's pledge at a press conference Monday that the government will consider issuing such a declaration"

This is stretching vocabulary, let alone credibility, to the very limit.

bokudaToday  11:35 am JST

@kyronstavic

Sage debated, nevertheless, whether it would be effective here. "It's a communist, one-party state, we said. We couldn't get away with it in Europe, we thought"..." And then Italy did it. And we realised we could."

... and you're even more biased. This is the killer quote:

"They claimed to have flattened the curve. I was sceptical at first. I thought it was a massive cover-up by the Chinese. But as the data accrued it became clear it was an effective policy."

Prof Neil Ferguson is clearly a pro-lockdowns, and not an anti-lockdowns as the article tries to force.

Did you miss the bit where it said "I was skeptical at first." He was skeptical about whether the lockdowns were effective (based on what the Chinese were claiming, and they don't have a very good record with the truth), and then changed his mind based on the data the Chinese had provided. So he and Sage pushed for lockdowns based on dubious data. And when he got what he wanted, he still thought he was above the rules and snuck out for some nookie with his mistress. What does that say about his moral credibility, not to mention his wildly inaccurate predictions?

So maybe you're right about whether Ferguson is anti-lockdowns, in that he thinks they shouldn't apply to him.

Cummings' graphs show like-for-like comparisons of cases and deaths for places that did enforce lockdowns and masks, and those that did not, taking into account similar population characteristics. So he was comparing California vs Florida and North Dakota vs South Dakota among others, not California vs South Dakota, etc. Go back and have a look at what the data show before you complain about bias.

Sam Watters, well said. Good sense and perspective are rare around here.

JimizoToday  11:43 am JST

Another example of rules for thee. Any wonder more and more people are growing skeptical about this pandemic and see it as a way a bunch of people are taking advantage of it to grab power?

What do you mean by ‘skeptical about the pandemic’? Give us the details. Who is getting more skeptical? 

I’m intrigued.

I guess you're not really paying attention.

StrangerlandToday  11:52 am JST

What do you mean by ‘skeptical about the pandemic’? Give us the details. Who is getting more skeptical?

And what are they skeptical about? That the pandemic even exists?!

No, most people recognise the pandemic exists. But more and more are getting skeptical about how accurate the tests are, how dangerous the virus is for the vast majority of people, and about the truthfulness of information put out by governments and the mainstream media. But if you only pay attention governments and the mainstream media, you're not going to hear about other verifiable facts and points of view unless they're smears.

By all means, if you want to lock yourselves down, go ahead. Nobody's stopping you.

I guess you're not really paying attention.

?

I asked simple questions. No need to avoid them.

What do you mean by ‘skeptical about the pandemic’? Give us the details.

Who is getting more skeptical?

I honestly want to know.

Jimizo, refer to the above.

He was skeptical about whether the lockdowns were effective (based on what the Chinese were claiming, and they don't have a very good record with the truth), and then changed his mind based on the data the Chinese had provided.

I hope you're basing this conclusion on some information that has not been part of this thread, because that conclusion can NOT logically be made from the quote you provided before making it.

Jimizo, refer to the above.

Them be the words of someone who has realized they can't actually support the claims they have made.

Don't believe me? Look above in my last post where I clearly proved it.

Jimizo, refer to the above.

Who are these ‘more and more people’ believing what you believe? It is very detailed in the breakdown of what they believe. How many? How do you know this?

Can we find this information in poll results or something like that?

You’re not basing this on an echo chamber of podcasts and alternative media, are you?

We have a vaccine but we won't give it to you until February or most likely March. Indecision and delays are not management, it's dithering.

To all the lockdown lovers, how hard is it to look for yourselves?

But I'll help:

https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/

This includes the signatures of over 50,000 medical & public health scientists and medical practitioners who have been vetted and have their names, fields and institutions listed. How's that for a start? They"re supporting focused protection, as I do, not UK-style lockdowns.

This includes the signatures of over 50,000 medical & public health scientists and medical practitioners who have been vetted and have their names, fields and institutions listed.

What percent of the overal medical and public health scientists and medical practitioners does that represent?

Absolute numbers mean nothing without a point of comparison.

This includes the signatures of over **50,000 medical & public health scientists and medical practitioners who have been vetted and have their names, fields and institutions listed.**

What percent of the overal medical and public health scientists and medical practitioners does that represent?

OK, how many have signed a declaration asking for a lockdown?

@kyronstavic

So, where do we go again to find evidence of the following:

But more and more are getting skeptical about how accurate the tests are, how dangerous the virus is for the vast majority of people, and about the truthfulness of information put out by governments and the mainstream media.

If it’s ‘Louder with Crowder’ or something similar, just say so. What you posted doesn’t prove your point.

*OK, how many have signed a declaration asking for a lockdown?*

Hardly a retort, is it? There isn’t a declaration which disagrees with this declaration, therefore....

Very poor.

A State of Emergency is merely three words in Japan that have no significance. Businesses that "close" just collect $5,000 a month per location without closing! To skirt the laws and make money while accepting free handouts, all that is required is for the owners to lock the front door at 8 pm, install reflective film on the windows, don't respond if the cops come knocking, and no one asks any questions. Why do you imagine they are attaching a "penalty" this time? The government won't enforce the penalty anyway.

The last thing Japan needs is to enforce an actual lockdown.

Nowhere in the world has a lockdown achieved what was intended. On the flip side, with the massive upsurge in crime, mental health issues, and the concurrent decimation of New York, Los Angeles, and other major cities worldwide (not to mention diabetes, high blood pressure, and other health issues), a lockdown is much worse than the .000001% chance of dying from COVID. Especially in Japan. Another spike always follows a lockdown. Lockdowns simply temporarily extend the next wave's timing until everyone gets it or is vaccinated against it.

Lockdowns have been proven to be ineffective, and dangerous.

The government should use the money they give restaurants should spend it on syringes, and start jabbing people at the rate of 10 million per day. They can do this at the big AEON shopping centers on the weekends, and all medical institutions, clinics, one-doctor offices, and even Fukutaro, etc. That is the best and easiest way to solve this problem. Give a jab to arriving tourists at international airports too after checking they are not infected. Why not?

Nowhere in the world has a lockdown achieved what was intended.

It did in Australia and New Zealand.

@Monty

The only concern I have is that the school will also close. Then my wife should stay home and take care of our kid. And she will lose her income and probably her job

Why is it automatically your wife who should stay home? Why not you?

Or, why don't you negotiate with your employers and take turns - take care of your kid together, equally.

Why is it automatically your wife who should stay home?

Like the majority of families in Japan the husband probably earns more than the wife.

You can't pray this away, people, you actually have to act.

Here's what I don't get... the government is just asking for people to comply, correct? And if they don't comply, there so far have not been any penalties... so... why on earth would anyone listen to the government's request if the end result is you can't feed your family and you risk other things, like mental health deteriorating from isolation, stress from not having no money, etc.

I understand that Japanese people have a sense of civic duty and always staying in line (only when it suits them though... get them drunk at an izakaya, and that sense of duty goes right out of their mouths along with the vomit they spew up all over the train platforms), but everybody should start realizing that this disease has not brought about massive death like everybody thought it would, and when people get sick, it seems to mostly either be people getting asymptomatic or just having symptoms similar to the flu. I'm not downplaying this situation though, but I think Japan doesn't need to declare an SOE on Covid case, but rather an SOE on Japan's ridiculously high suicide rate (in one month, it seems more people died here in Japan from suicide than the entire year so far of Covid-related deaths), their lack of real leadership in the government, their rampant racism, and worst of all, the constant meetings about meetings about meetings to deal with problems ten months too late.

Seriously Japan... try being more like the Punk Rockers whose t-shirts you sell at 109 and think is "fashionable." Try thinking for yourselves and maybe do something to change the sorry state of this country.

Don't spread the virus, folks

These are the kinds of things that can happen if the virus spreads

Just don't spread the virus

Everyone knows how to avoid getting COVID-19. So why are we having an emergency? Oh, it's because a lot of people are doing the wrong things. Normally when people do the wrong thing we fine them. Like traffic tickets. But, apparently this emergency is the reverse, we fine everyone else?

The best thing for people to do is take Zinc, alot of vitamin D bunker down stay home for 7 days and do nothing. Students can take 7 days off or do online. The employers with the government help should go 50% in on individuals salaries so the people can have some income to support themselves for those 7 days down and let this virus run its course. If everyone get get on the same page there is no NEED for worrying about going to work, losing a job, if everything can just come to a stand still this can be accomplished. We are all interconnected if no one is at the office to process a bill, or any type of transaction it will just have to wait. IF not this will continue and we will all just continue to spread and worry ourselves to death!

The best thing for people to do is take Zinc, alot of vitamin D bunker down stay home for 7 days and do nothing. Students can take 7 days off or do online.

Yes, you should take vitamin D and zinc, but if you do that you don't need to stay home, unless you have some other issues...

Yes, you should take vitamin D and zinc, but if you do that you don't need to stay home

Even if you don't suffer from the virus symptoms, you can still be a carrier