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© Copyright 2024 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.A mysterious pile of bones could hide evidence of Japanese war crimes, activists say
By MARI YAMAGUCHI TOKYO©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
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sakurasuki
Official statement that bones were being used for medical "education" but why someone really bother to brought bones from outside Japan only for "education".
Asiaman7
Seems like a prime spot for a new UNESCO World Heritage Site.
Newgirlintown
Japanese war crimes? No!
Hervé L'Eisa
The alleged atrocities seem eerily similar to those that happened under the Nazis.
OssanAmerica
Rather speculative headline when the article itself states;
"but did not find evidence linking the bones to Unit 731."
The existence of U731 is well known, widely recognized, and the most info is likely in US hands. Much of the damning info however comes from Soviet questioning of IJA prisoners.
GuruMick
The allies, including USA, consistantly bought back high ranking Nazi scientists to America to work on various projects.
The Catholic Church whisked a whole bunch off the South America, predominantly Argentina, Chile and Paraguay.
Grubby, grubby past .
TaiwanIsNotChina
So did the USSR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alsos
Fighto!
Get back to us Herve when you find evidence that 6 million people were "ethnically cleansed" by WW2 Japan as they were by the Nazis.
virusrex
Bones are essential part of anatomy lessons, and it is not uncommon for institutions (or even particulars) to get them for this purpose. In countries like Japan where incineration is common there may not be bones to collect so they have to be imported.
Of course this is nothing more than a useful excuse (and not a very good one, collecting bones from a war zone is by itself unethical), but the concept itself is not irrational.
gogogo
Carbon date the bones to find out how old they are. Then do DNA analysis on them to find nationality and return the remains to that country.
sakurasuki
@virusrex
Of course there are plenty of hypothetical reasons, however during that time to bring human specimen sample from abroad wasn't easy as today, they'll need refrigration system and . They' were willing to do that for only "medical" purpose and those specimen only from Asia excluding Japan.
Unit 731 just have many office across China and South East Asia to collect those specimen easily.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14962631
caroti
Japan was responsible for the deaths of up to 30 million innocent people during its occupation of Asian countries, mostly during World War 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_during_World_War_II
Bow wife
What about ....! ?
SeriouslyCreamy
https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/14988305
"In twilight years, former Unit 731 member set on spreading truth"
An interesting read about Hideo Shimizu.
BigP
Should not be too difficult for an outside agency to carbon date and examine the bones.
Wick's pencil
My high school (many years ago, not in Japan) had a real human skeleton that was imported.
So this could all be very innocent.
sakurasuki
@deanzaZZR
That's correct, many people think it's a tomb, where the fact it's trophy monument of human parts that being brought as trophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimizuka
virusrex
The time and origin of the bones are already known, so doing this would not solve the problem, which is if these bones were procured as usual or harvested from war victims.
There is no need to refrigerate bones, they are transported at room temperature and the only care necessary is not to break them during transport. And again, when countries have an almost universal culture of incinerating the bodies you don't have local ones to harvest, human bones are much more easily and cheaply obtained from other countries. That medical schools in Japan needed bones from overseas is irrelevant (that need was common before and after the war) the issue is if these were or not obtained ethically.
In this case there is plenty of reasons to think the bones were not obtained ethically, but being originated in other countries is not part of those reasons. Lack of documentation, origin in war zones, the way the bones were disposed are reasons to suspect.
sakurasuki
@virusrex
By the time those bones being discovered of course it already becoming bones however from 1940s to 1989 there are plenty times for those bodies or body parts for decay.
What were those things before they were being buried? Are you sure they were just bones?
GBR48
The period concerned saw developments in totalitarian politics, medical science and pseudo-scientific ideas about race coincide in situations where state-empowered people had complete control over civilians that they considered to be disposable. Some individuals were always going to exploit this. The Nazis did:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation
We may assume that other regimes did the same thing, 'in the name of science'.
The Japanese government should embrace transparency and allow third parties to examine everything. Even the slightest trace of a cover up in such cases leads to an assumption of guilt. The victims of any atrocities deserve to have their suffering reported. If we cover up evil deeds, they are more likely to be repeated.
Don't be afraid of your past. If it is evil, you express your virtue by public condemnation of it, not by hiding it.
virusrex
And since the claim is that they were bones from the beginning then imagining they were not is not going to solve anything.
There is no evidence the bones were brought as anything else but bones, so acting on imaginary things about them is not going to help clearing the facts, if someone else wanted to think they were whole human bodies he would find more difficulties in transport, imagining they were living people even more, imagining they were brought alive and willingly by being fooled brings even more difficulties to solve to explain how that could happen. But at the end as long as there is no indication of any of these scenarios actually happening there is no meaning on thinking it "must" be what happened.
The findings are bones, so an explanation adequate for the presence of bones does not becomes inadequate just because you want to think they were not bones.
The different experts examining them have had 30 years to examine them, at this point it is impossible to believe clear forensic evidence of the presence of anything else could have been ignored for so long. That is just to imagine overly complicated scenarios just for fun but it helps nothing to clarify the origin.
This is specially important when you keep ignoring the actual reasons to suspect something undue (as mentioned in my last comment) and instead choose to focus in a perfectly rational explanation.
sakurasuki
@virusrex
Who does really want to think that only bones from the beginning, not body parts even not the whole body brought from abroad? You and of course JGovt
Tirion
I doubt that radiocarbon dating could add any value in this matter. Radiocarbon dating does not work on samples from 1945 onwards as a result of the contamination of the planet by atomic/nuclear explosions. Even before 1945, there was a lot of fraud, hocus-pocus and pseudo-science involved in radiocarbon dating. Like so much of science, the radiocarbon-dating process has been corrupted.
virusrex
there is nothing wrong with considering only those things that have been proved to happen. That is a much more productive approach than making imaginary scenarios not supported by the evidence and distracting from the actual evidence of undue things happening. It is as productive as people saying these are bones from individuals from other planets being hidden to avoid recognizing extraterrestrial life. Something just born from idle speculation and that do absolutely nothing to clarify the situation. For that the actual evidence is much more important than unsupported scenarios.
u_s__reamer
...what he saw in Harbin should never be repeated. When he sees his great-grandchildren, he said, they remind him of that fetus he saw and the lives lost.
“I want younger people to understand the tragedy of war,” he said.
I want older people to understand the tragedy of war that they are always responsible for. As for government officials, the usual war-mongering suspects who start wars, they, unfortunately, will only get the anti-war message when they stand on a trap door. Younger people need to be taught in school how adults selfishly sacrifice the lives of a young generation using them as cannon fodder in the wars that they unleash with malice aforethought.
OssanAmerica
If you studied the subject you would know that while specific medical experiments may have been similar, there exists an enormous difference in that U731 was just one small part of the IJA and the victims were predominantly POWs, whereas the Nazi's used rounded up civilians which were a product of an offical policy of genocide. Imperial Japan, while found guilty of several War Crimes, had no such official policy. Hence most of the crimes related to treatment of POWs.
wallace
There cannot be a single excuse for Unit 731. It carried out horrific experiments on live people.
"Between 1936 and 1945, roughly 14,000 victims were murdered in Unit 731. It is estimated that at least 300,000 individuals have died due to infectious illnesses caused by the activities of Unit 731 and its affiliated research facilities."
"At least 3,000 men, women, and children were subjected as "marutas" or as logs to experimentations conducted by Unit 731 division at Pingfang alone. Here is an article on why they were called "marutas". Dr. Harris Sheldon estimates that at least 10,000 to 12,000 prisoners died in the biological experiments."
https://www.pacificatrocities.org/human-experimentation.html#:~:text=At%20least%203%2C000%20men%2C%20women,died%20in%20the%20biological%20experiments.
NCIS Reruns
The notorious Unit 731 (in Harbin, Heilongjiang Province) had a domestic counterpart in Noborito, Kawasaki City. The secret laboratory there resembled "Q" in the James Bond series, testing and producing all kinds of esoteric gizmos and weapons, most famous of which are the "balloon bombs" sent wafting over the Pacific to fall on North America. Its museum, inside the last building still standing, is on the Ikuta campus of Meiji University and can be visited free of charge.
The Noborito laboratory experimented on animals, but it is uncertain whether it performed experiments on foreign POWs --- unlike Unit 731. The army's hospital in Okubo may have indeed been engaged in insidious experiments on humans, but if it did the evidence has been well covered up. This article infers bad things happened there, but only raises questions. Perhaps new revelations will be forthcoming.
sakurasuki
@Virusrex
Here's an evidence and not imaginary, that place were being used as Japanese Imperial Army facility. That fact directly from article above.
From your suggestion, that army facility just have a unique hobby which was bringing non Japanese people bones across Asia, to add into their collection, that "make sense" at least for you.
Falco1
Now we do know that you tenaciously defend anything that Japan does but deny that Japan was not at the same level of German Nazi in warcrimes is frankly outrageous.
Japan was in the axis so as fascist Italy (the word that you use so often) and Nazi-Germany.
And actually according to POW from the allied side they were treated more humanely by the nazis than the Japanese.
sakurasuki
In case many people in here don't remember, Japan have eugenics law and policy. That still exist up until 1996, 41 years after WW2. During those period Japan really forced sterilizing its own people, pick people from their home, when they see those people were suitable for that policy.
Now imagine what Japan can do to others during WW2, some people having difficult really hard to imagine that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_Japan
Anonymous
The entire operation of Unit 731 was unethical and immoral though deemed “necessary” by the Japanese command. For this reason I find the author’s use of “unnecessary” in the phrase unnecessary amputations to be … unnecessary.
To readers of Shusaku Endo, I recommend his novel on this subject titled “The Sea and Poison” (海と毒薬).
virusrex
Does that prove the remains are from extraterrestrials? no, do they prove the remains were more than bones? no, it is still the same situation. You are taking something that actually can be proved to assume things that can't. This is what unnecessarily complicate the thing and leads to nothing useful. It is the same as saying this
Again, nothing unique about it, bones are a common tool for anatomy studies, and they are not easy to procure in Japan, which makes the given explanation (for this simple fact) perfectly rational. Once again you are trying to find difficulties explaining something usual while ignoring the real things that makes this look suspicious, and the worst part is that this is completely unnecessary.
wallace
The crimes of Unit 731 were so horrific it does not require a comparison with the Nazi's experiments to lessen the horror.
CaptDingleheimer
$10 bucks says that 3 dozen loads of concrete will be mysteriously poured on that site overnight in the coming days.
spidersenses
While both Unit 731 and Nazi concentration camp experiments were inhumane and brutal, Unit 731's methods were distinguished by their extreme cruelty, the intentional infliction of maximum pain, the large scale of biological warfare experiments, and the broad immunity from prosecution granted to its perpetrators.
https://brill.com/view/journals/jaer/30/1/article-p32_003.xml
https://ajges.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40856-016-0010-1
mallace
Not sure where you got your info Osssan but you could not be more wrong Ossan.
And as hard as it may seem to top the level of cruelty by the Nazis, Japan managed to do just that with Unit 731.
More people were experimented on and killed by Unit 731 than the Nazis.
The majority of experiments conducted by Unit 731 were on Chinese civilians, including whole villages consisting of men, women and children. The Nazis never dropped the plaque, anthrax and cholera on civilians.
The range of experiments conducted by Unit 731 was extraordinarily diverse, including not only biological and chemical warfare but also studies on the effects of physical trauma, such as gunshots, burns, and explosions, on the human body
Unlike some Nazi experiments, which occasionally used anesthesia, Unit 731's procedures were designed to maximize suffering. Prisoners were often fully conscious during dismemberment and other forms of experimentation.
Many members of Unit 731 were granted immunity by the United States in exchange for their research data unlike the extensive prosecution of Nazi war criminals.
sakurasuki
@Virusrex
How many bones did they really need for "study" in one medical institution? You are the one who insist in making assumption those bones were being used for regular study not for biological and chemical warfare. Also making assumption those things that being buried already bones from beginning, not human bodies or body parts
Why it can't easily proved, because most of paper trail from WW2 being destroyed systemically.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2008/04/05/national/navy-orders-to-destroy-papers-found/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26613862
Abe234
I sometimes wish the press, media would cover this kind of thing just as much as the Bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki or the Tokyo raids. The medical school that also did
Falco1Today 09:44 am JST
I know this was down voted but this was a fact. Your were more likely to die in the Japanese POW camps than the German POW camps. Apparently 27% of POWS in Japan did not survive compared to 4% of POWs in German camps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war#World_War_II
I would also recommend the reading of a books called.ORDINARY MEN. about unit 101 a police battalion and how ordinary men, turned into the monsters we have deep in us. Took courage, insight, and one heck of a morel compass to say NO.
Bellflower
It seems the Truman administration was not particularly bothered by Japan's treatment of POWs. The US occupation engineered the formation of the Liberal Democratic party and backed former militarists such as Nobusuke Kishi, Abe's grandfather.
The Japanese militarists who brought disaster to Japan are still in power today in the LDP. Pretending to be victims of Chinese and North Korean threats they are reviving the same kind of militarism only this time under the wing of the US military. Blinken has just arrived in Japan for the 2 Plus 2 talks intended to bring Japan's military under US control.
Pukey2
Gambare:
It's very disgusting and sickening to be so dissmissive of these sort of crimes, just because it may not have reached 6 million. Very sick. I have to wonder how these sort of people can look at themselves in the mirror.
The elderly gentleman, Shimizu-san, was also brave enough to decide to visit China next month. I can only imagine how seeing those images could have affected a boy. But he has a conscience, which is more than what I can say about these dismissive people and their whataboutism.
kurikuri
In case you hadn't noticed, there is some solid Japanese nationalists among the commenters on JT who reject anything negative about Japan, whether it includes facts or not.
I suspect most of them are local Japanese who are too afraid to comment in English themselves.
It's not too different from the nationalist view of America you see among Trump supporters.
Stewart Gale
Unit 731 - one of the most disgusting and horrific episodes in world history.
They even infected people with bubonic plague.
deanzaZZR
@SG Correct. Tested at Unit 731 and dropped onto Chinese civilians in central China.
wallace
The Nazis exterminated about 11 million people.
voiceofokinawa
There's a best seller book in Japan entitled "The Devil's Glutton" (『悪魔の飽食』)
co-authored and published in 1980 by novelist Seiichi Morimoto that details about what had happened with the IJA Unit 731 during the war.
Is there no one who doesn't raise heckles over the atrocities described in the book? The catch is that all these culprits were condoned for their life in exchange of the handover of the gathered data to the U.S. authorities.
NCIS Reruns
Oh really? Below is item 10 in the Potsdam declaration of July 1945. (Truman was president at the time)
We do not intend that the Japanese shall be enslaved as a race or destroyed as a nation, but stern justice shall be meted out to all war criminals, including those who have visited cruelties upon our prisoners. [italics mine]
Kishi was a high-ranking bureaucrat who turned to politics after the occupation. At no time during the war did he serve in the military.
Alberto
Most sources estimate that approximately 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust. When including other targeted groups such as Romani people, Polish and Soviet civilians, disabled individuals, political dissidents, and homosexuals, the total number of victims reaches around 17 million.
Estimates of civilian casualties caused by the Japanese military during World War II range from 10 million to 30 million. The exact number is difficult to verify due to the chaotic nature of the conflict and incomplete records, but the consensus is that the toll was significantly higher than that of the Nazis.
virusrex
One full set for each of the classes at least, sometimes several since it is common to make groups present the different characteristics and the each group gets an anatomical region, I mean medical schools can even lend sets to the students so they can study at home.
https://collections.countway.harvard.edu/onview/exhibits/show/beyond-the-bone-box
I hope you understand you are arguing using your own ignorance as if it was an argument. That is a terribly weak position to take and easily refuted by anybody that has even marginally more knowledge than you.
Because it is a valid and correct explanation since the only evidence found are bones, which are used in the same way in other medical schools and overseas, you are the one making completely imaginary assumptions of overly complicated scenarios based on no evidence at all, as previously demonstrated, this is as valid as someone that pretends this are extraterrestrial bones, even when human bones are more than enough to explain the findings, in the same way as you this is based on making unnecessary assumptions that would require evidence that has not been found.
With this you are only explaining one of the reasons why you are not justified in making imaginary scenarios, another assumption you are making is that professional forensic investigators during 30 years have been universally inept and could not identify the difference between bones being buried and limbs of full bodies, which leave completely different evidence that are routinely distinguished.
Once again your arguments are all about you not having special knowledge about the field (which is fine) and assuming nobody in the whole world could know better (which is not).
The actual investigation is focused instead on what is actually different in this case compared with the explanation offered, which is not that there are bones from Asian countries present, but that the usual documentation is not present, that the bones were buried on site which is not the usual procedure or that the origin is specifically war zones which is a known ethical violation.
No need at all to imagine the bones came to the country as anything else but bones.
WasabiWit
The Germans were comparatively kind compared to the inhumane and barbaric treatment the Japanese inflicted on POWs during World War II. The level of cruelty was beyond anything you can imagine:
Japanese POW camps were known for their extremely harsh conditions. Prisoners faced starvation, beatings, and executions. In camps like Changi in Singapore and the camps in Japan, the death rate among POWs was significantly higher than in German camps.
Bataan Death March: After the surrender of Bataan in the Philippines in 1942, approximately 75,000 Filipino and American troops were forced to march 65 miles to prison camps. The prisoners were subjected to extreme physical abuse, denied food and water, and many were killed along the way. Estimates suggest that thousands died during the march.
POWs were often used as slave laborers in harsh conditions. The construction of the Burma-Thailand Railway, known as the "Death Railway," resulted in the deaths of an estimated 12,000 Allied POWs and tens of thousands of local laborers due to malnutrition, overwork, and brutal treatment.
Of course, Unit 731 conducted horrific medical experiments on prisoners, including vivisections without anesthesia, testing of biological weapons, and deliberate infection with deadly pathogens. These experiments caused immense suffering and resulted in the deaths of thousands of prisoners (Brill) (SpringerOpen).
wallace
Alberto
wallace
The Nazis exterminated about 11 million people.
Modern historians estimate the figure nearer to 11 million. Including many others. Anyway 11-17 million.
Yes, I accept those figures. But the article is about Unit 731. The Nazis killed 20 million Soviet citizens.
Alberto
Yes, numbers vary among sources and researchers alike.
not sure what you are getting at with this comparison of civilian deaths though.
wallace
Alberto
The JIM killed about 20-30 million people. Troops and civilians. The Nazis killed 20-30 million people. Troops and civilians.
Both were very dark and evil times and I make no excuses for any of it.
Unit 731 was very evil and the Americans allowed the General in charge to move to the US without prosecution in return for his knowledge of the human experiments.
The Nazi human experiments were also very evil.
There can not be a single excuse for any of it.
Stewart Gale
It’s disgraceful that the Americans let those behind unit 731 off Scott-free in exchange for the results of their tests. They should have been tried and executed like other Japanese war criminals.
These were the worst of the worst, arguably.
smithinjapan
If it is indeed the bones of victims of war crimes, they will never, ever tell you.
DanteKH
Japan's war crimes and atrocities, sadly, pale in comparison with the Nazi ones. More than 30 million people were killed in China, Taiwan, Philippines, Korea, etc in hideous ways. You can check the Wikipedia for Japan war crimes, since they don't teach those kind of things here.
Looking forward to get down voted again by the Japanophilles and The Japanese purists, once more. :)