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Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

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Later Tuesday, Matsui will read out a peace declaration in which he calls nuclear weapons an “absolute evil.”

Oh, those politicians. Not nuclear weapon itself but people who ordered to use combat nuclear devices against civilian population and who dropped bombs were absolute evil.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Oh, those politicians. Not nuclear weapon itself but people who ordered to use combat nuclear devices against civilian population and who dropped bombs were absolute evil.

I sincerely wonder if you would have said the very same thing back in 1945 after the tens of millions of deaths that had occurred because of WWII?

Hindsight is 20/20.

The point of memorializing this day is to REMEMBER and fight that it never happens again!

10 ( +16 / -6 )

I sincerely wonder if you would have said the very same thing back in 1945 after the tens of millions of deaths that had occurred because of WWII?

Tens of millions of deaths that occured because of WWII have nothing to do with the using of atomic bombs against civilian population of Japanese cities. There were enough sane people in 1945 who called nuclear bombings as brutal actions against innocent civilians.

The point of memorializing this day is to REMEMBER and fight that it never happens again!

The point is memorializing one of the worst War Crimes against humanity. Ever heard about a story of Sasaki Sadako?

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

Ah..the old "civilian targets" excuse...sounds good but there is one exception, in a declared war, all out war, the civilians are the enemy as their labor keeps the war effort going. The US sought to end the war as quick as they could and that meant making the bloody leadership of Japan accept total surrender. How many civilian lives did the bombs save when you compare how many could have died in an invasion of the Islands?

4 ( +12 / -8 )

I don't think it is working. 1945 - US, 1949 USSR, 1952 UK, 1960 France, 1964 China, 1974 India, 1998 Pakistan, 2006 N Korea, 1979? Isreal, then there is nuclear sharing, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey. There is also South Africa which is a current ?. Then the number of countries with nuclear power is 31 and 7 more should have them soon. Japan is one of the countries selling nuclear power. So it doesn't seem to be working especially in Japan itself.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Ah..the old "civilian targets" excuse...sounds good but there is one exception, in a declared war, all out war, the civilians are the enemy as their labor keeps the war effort going.

Only cowards consider civilian population as combatants or "enemies" during war conflicts. Bombing of a city with women and children is not a same as fighting armed forces at battlefield.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

Ah..the old "civilian targets" excuse...sounds good but there is one exception, in a declared war, all out war, the civilians are the enemy as their labor keeps the war effort going. The US sought to end the war as quick as they could and that meant making the bloody leadership of Japan accept total surrender. How many civilian lives did the bombs save when you compare how many could have died in an invasion of the Islands?

Ah, the old 'America was justified' excuse. The atomic bombings were heinous war crimes. Purposefully bombing and killing civilians to break a country into surrendering is repugnant.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

"technosphere Aug. 06, 2013 - 07:10AM JST Oh, those politicians. Not nuclear weapon itself but people who ordered to use combat nuclear devices against civilian population and who dropped bombs were absolute evil."

You are really barking up the wrong tree. Japan AND the rest of the world memorialize the A-bombs because it represents the horror of war and keeps alive the hope that we will be able to avoid ever seeing such destruction wrought by human beings on other hum beings. People like you, who see it as "retaliation" or that "they deserved it" are missing the point completely, And certainly not learning the lesson at all. Furthermore, the acts of dropping and the results of the US atomic bombs on two Japanese cities is documented completely.

Who was the real victim of the war?

All civilians in all countries were the "real victims" of war. The children, the women the elderly.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

NOT again!

American soldiers 60 years ago have long GONG. Why dwell on your stupid past, J people?

-16 ( +3 / -19 )

We'll never know what the total casualties would have been if not for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I do think it was learned a worldwide restrain from using such weapons again. So far.....

3 ( +4 / -1 )

After the war, the Germans and Japanese had a different reaction to their bad behavior during the war. Most of the Germans were remorseful and guilt ridden. The Japanese immediately tried to rewrite history, and are still at it. Within days of Japan's surrender in 1945, coded messages went out from Tokyo to Japanese diplomats around the world, ordering them to start a campaign portraying Japan as a victim in the war, and to play down Japanese atrocities and play up Japanese civilian losses in the recent atomic bomb attacks. What was not so secret were Japanese efforts to ignore the war and portray themselves as victims. Many Japanese opposed rewriting history, which was often quite blatant. This meddling with historical facts regularly caused problems with neighbors, especially China. But the Japanese were insistent on evading responsibility. They still are, and many Japanese really believe it.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

A biggest crime committed by Americans to violate humanity. I feel very ashamed every year 68 times.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

My grandfather was an engineer working for the central phone company in Hiroshima. He did not go into work the morning of 8/6/45 as the day was the 10 year anniversary of his father's death and a priest was to come to the house that morning to offer prayers. After the blast, he rode a bicycle into the city (from Jigozen) to check on his coworkers only to find his company building in shambles. He dug with his bare hands through the rubble hoping to find someone still living. My grandfather died a painful death of radiation poisoning 5 months later. Peace to him and all the victims of war.

18 ( +19 / -1 )

Helen LiAug. 06, 2013 - 08:10AM JST

NOT again!

American soldiers 60 years ago have long GONG. Why dwell on your stupid past, J people?

Stupid, Li? There are two countries in this region that never stop going on about the past, and everything would be a lot more peaceful if they would just shut up. You fail to see the significance of commemorating the dropping of A-bombs. This should be commemorated REGARDLESS of which country it happened to.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

At that time, most of people were all civilians there in cities. No more weapons and most soldiers have gone. America knew all about it before A-bombs. Here comes a simple question. Was it really necessary to drop A-bombs? though America says it was very necessary to end the war and save a lot of lives of Americans.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Thank you America, for dropping these bombs, and freeing my people from tyranny.

-10 ( +9 / -19 )

A biggest crime committed by Americans to violate humanity. I feel very ashamed every year 68 times.

Boy, if only Japanese had the same sense of moral guilt that you do in this matter regarding the rape of Nanking etc... I'd say that was a more heinous violation of humanity... Good god, everyone needs to get over this blaming and feeling guilty BS.. it's one thing to remember and not forget, but seriously get over it.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

In that great American tradition of forgive and forget, in May of 1955, only 10 years later from that August day we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, TV audiences from coast to cost watching a popular TV program "This is Your Life" witnessed first hand as a surprised survivor of Horoshima nervously shook hands with the co-pilot of the plane that dropped the bomb. To learn more about this "bombshell" visit Hiroshima Hits Home http://envisioningtheamericandream.com/2012/08/07/hiroshima-hits-home/

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It's their day to grieve. Let them have it. You have the rest of the year.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Thank you America, for dropping these bombs, and freeing my people from tyranny.

22,000 Koreans were killed in the atomic bomb blasts in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Chucky. You still thankful?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Only cowards consider civilian population as combatants or "enemies" during war conflicts. Bombing of a city with women and children is not a same as fighting armed forces at battlefield.

Those women and children are capable of producing munitions and providing other non-military services to keep a country running. If a country has their homefront still going, the leaders will continue to fight. Look at Japan. The ruling elite were at odds in wanting to surrender, even after the defeats of Okinawa and the PI. Japan still had a large standing army in China, Vietnam and still controlled Singapore and Hong Kong. They thought that they still had the will of the people behind them and wanted to keep fighting, never mind that many had just died in the fire bombing of Tokyo.

If you don't think that the civilian poplulation should be considered as enemies during a war, take a look back at 1917. When the Russian Tzar and the White Russians were overthrown by the Reds and they signed a truce with Germany. The will of the people was not behind the government and wanted the soldiers to stop. The soldiers knew this and didn't want to fight. So the civilian populace does play a part.

It was "Rosie the Riveter" and others back in the USA that ran the war machine that enabled the USA to produce all of the equipment used by the US military and other Allied nations to win the war.

Sad thing to say, but civilians are part of warfare. All ways have been and probably will continue to be.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

There were more than 100 American, British,,,, prisoners in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was not a big news. Remember they were also sacrificed to end the war. Japan would surely surrender sooner or later without A-bombs after having dropped regular bombs all over Japan for many months. These prisoners might have a longer life until today if it happened there. No graves for them.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Politicians or not. people, especially Hiroshima people are commemorating their victims. As the Mayor, Mtsui representing city and its resident. Japanese custom tp pray for dead souls.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

WW2 was horrific for everyone. There were Japanese atrocities, there were civilian victims, there were Nazi atrocities, there were German and European civilian casualties also.

Japan-Atomic bombs. Germany-Thousands and thousands of incendiaries. Does Germany speak of warcrimes committed against them?

Japan was fiercely loyal and an invasion could have created more casualties and suicides than what was lost in the 2 cities.

Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima and only after the second bombing did Japan surrender.

Lets all hope the lessons learned are to NEVER use nuclear weapons again! Sadly nations are striving forward in developing them as we read this.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

All civilians in all countries were the "real victims" of war. The children, the women the elderly.

Finally something we can agree on Ossan.

Japan can have this day but when will they give the same respects to other countries that had atrocities commented against them by the Japanese military? It is a shame that the government and public can offer the same respects they want others to give to them.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

hatsoff: "There are two countries in this region that never stop going on about the past, and everything would be a lot more peaceful if they would just shut up"

So, let me get this straight... you are commenting on a thread that commemorates the past and saying people should shut up and stop going on about it? Or are you just saying that country A and country B should shut up about what was done to them, but country C (who did everything to A and B) is free to and should continue to remember the horrors visited upon them?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

!@tmarie: This is Hiroshima Day, not Japan Day. Any victimized cities are free to have their days in their cities

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Before you run to the abstract theory (argument) of who was responsible for the bombing (justified or not) and the number of people killed in the bombing, give a thought to the people who died. Think realistically of what kind of lives they were having, what kind of people were they and how they died.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Thank you America, for dropping these bombs, and freeing my people from tyranny.

Chuck3176 - Quote of the year on JT from someone who gets it. Hiroshima and Nagasaki stopped an inevitable invasion of Japan that would have claimed a million more lives on both sides.

Unfortunately, the same families run the country today as in 1945, and are still leading it over the edge.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

I am not sure why this is becoming so political here, I wish people would take anniversary days as today as a reminder of the horrors and destruction humans are capable of, and reflect on how we as world citizens can prevent the same or worse from happening in the future. It is not a time to blame or compare levels of evil.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Toshiko, do you honestly think the rest of the country doesn't do anything for this day? I guess having the PM go down every year and make a speech isn't a way of showing that the country also marks this day, right?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

smithinjapanAug. 06, 2013 - 09:21AM JST

hatsoff: "There are two countries in this region that never stop going on about the past, and everything would be a lot more peaceful if they would just shut up"

So, let me get this straight... you are commenting on a thread that commemorates the past and saying people should shut up and stop going on about it? Or are you just saying that country A and country B should shut up about what was done to them, but country C (who did everything to A and B) is free to and should continue to remember the horrors visited upon them?

Selective as always, Smith, and reaching in the process. Read the last sentence in my earlier post (the one you omitted from your quote).

1 ( +3 / -2 )

a terrible tragedy

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Two things should be remembered today. The horrors of a sadistic, racist, murderous dictatorship and the appalling power of nuclear weapons. . I just wish this day would be used to emphasize the former as much as the latter. The disease of nationalism is still alive and kicking in some quarters and this day could be also used to remind people that it's still a danger to us and must be wholly rejected at the ballot box.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Here's a fact: If Pearl Harbor had never happened, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would never have happened.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

sfjp330Aug. 06, 2013 - 08:17AM JST After the war, the Germans and Japanese had a different reaction to their bad behavior during the war. Most of the >Germans were remorseful and guilt ridden.

I guess that's why Germany has problem with so many neo-Nazi groups today.

The Japanese immediately tried to rewrite history, and are still at it. Within days of Japan's surrender in 1945, coded >messages went out from Tokyo to Japanese diplomats around the world, ordering them to start a campaign portraying >Japan as a victim in the war, and to play down Japanese atrocities and play up Japanese civilian losses in the recent >atomic bomb attacks

Do you have any objective evidence to support these wild claims?

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

hatsoff: "This should be commemorated REGARDLESS of which country it happened to."

So this little add-on forgives you saying people should 'shut up' about history while saying this should be remembered? If anything that only proves my point you are being selective. You CLAIM 'regardless' in your last sentence, but in the previous state others should shut up and be quiet. You don't see the blatantly obvious contradiction?

Ossan: "I guess that's why Germany has problem with so many neo-Nazi groups today."

Neo-Nazi groups aren't just in Germany. The thing is, they are illegal everywhere, unlike Japanese politicians who WANT to emulate the people you use as an example of how following something is wrong.

"Do you have any objective evidence to support these wild claims?"

Umm... any history books that weren't approved by Abe and Co.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Shame he doesn't seem to care about the other nuclear crisis on Japan's hands right now.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Pledging to think about something only proves you have no power to do anything about it, or else that you agree with it and are going to change a little something called the constitution so that you can actually GET nuclear weapons. These guys aren't even good at hiding the blatant lies these days.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It is a shame that we here so little about Nagasaki, which was obliterated along with its inhabitants before the Japanese had time to respond to Hiroshima. Hiroshima was a tragedy, but Nagasaki defies any attempt (by me at least) at rationalization.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

22,000 Koreans were killed in the atomic bomb blasts in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Chucky. You still thankful?

Actually the number has been found to be 40,000 Korean slave laborers dead, much greater than always thought. I am grateful for their sacrifice, but this was something that was needed to be done, otherwise many more Koreans would have been killed.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

I wish Japan also cared this much about what they did to their neighbors.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

timtak: "It is a shame that we here so little about Nagasaki..."

Yeah, we do HEAR less, until three days from now, when we hear more.

"Hiroshima was a tragedy, but Nagasaki defies any attempt (by me at least) at rationalization."

The earthquake and tsunami of 2011 were tragedies; the intentional bombing and murder of hundreds of thousands of innocents is indeed horrific and cannot be rationalized, as you suggest with your comment in regards to Nagasaki.

Thomas: "I wish Japan also cared this much about what they did to their neighbors."

How could they be victims if they did that?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Two things should be remembered today. The horrors of a sadistic, racist, murderous dictatorship and the appalling power of nuclear weapons. . I just wish this day would be used to emphasize the former as much as the latter. The disease of nationalism is still alive and kicking in some quarters and this day could be also used to remind people that it's still a danger to us and must be wholly rejected at the ballot box.

Nicely said, if we had a world based on substantive truth and the best choices for as many as possible causing the least harm, if we rejected unquestionable dogma, nationalism, leaders and organisations we might move to a time where this kind of tragedy could never occur, and I mean this for all "sides"

2 ( +2 / -0 )

History is for remembrance. We should not forget the horrible happening on this day. More importantly, history is for learning. We should learn why the war was fought. Invading other countries invites war and war has its consequences. To stop nuclear weapon means to stop war. There will be conflicts but admitting the conflict is the first step towards peaceful resolution. I hope all parties should, after paying respect to the dead, drill deeper down for the root cause of the happening. Only thru such effort, would we see hope.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Actually the number has been found to be 40,000 Korean slave laborers dead, much greater than always thought. I am grateful for their sacrifice, but this was something that was needed to be done, otherwise many more Koreans would have been killed.

I don't know how you can be more of a nationalist... wow.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Before we go condemning the US and allied forces for the dropping of the bombs let's consider a few other historical facts:

The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man standing and as the war ended thousands committed suicide.

The fire bombings of Tokyo killed more people than the two A-bombs combined.

There were two million Russian troops ready to march into Japan through the north and they were under orders to kill everybody.

The military treaty was very fair to Japan and they were able to keep their Emperor. The US occupation after the war was very helpful to Japan and the US very generously helped rebuild the infrastructure of Japan. I have spoken to many elderly Japanese and they have a lot of praise for what the US did in the post war years. Gees! They even introduced the fugu licence.

In a black kind of way, the dropping of the bombs helped Japan and stopped the Russian invasion.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@tmarie" Checdk Tokyo had Hiroshima Day.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

"Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons " Pardon my scepticism but this is the same PM that pushes the export of Japanese nuclear technology every time he gets a chance on his overseas trips. Abe made exports of J- infrastructure ( including N -power ) technology a key part of his Abenomics drive. But hey , what else is he going to say on this day - even if the contradiction is overwhelming.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Abe seeks to eliminate nuclear weapons, good cause but it will not happen as more and more countries are obtaining nuclear weapons. The nuclear power plants which Japan is helping build are just one step away from those countries developing nuclear weapons. Those countries are not interested in nuclear power, they are interested in nuclear technology. Face the facts and the truth, Japan is helping to spread nuclear weapons with the technology, like it or not.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This guy is all over the places!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So I guess Japan won't be nuclear-powered.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

On one hand hes saying he pledges to rid the world of nuclear weapons, whilst on the other hand he's furnishing countries with nuclear power technology and we all know how devastating that can be if not managed correctly. This guy just spouts crap to the public, then closes the door and laughs his socks off.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

People who think the bombing was a gross war crime consider the options the allies had at the time

A. Total naval blockade of Japan which would have resulted in the mass starvation of millions of people B. Invade Japan - more millions of dead C. Sit back and watch the Soviet Union invade and occupy all of China, Korea, and posibbly Hokkaido - killing millions of people in the process D. Continue fire bombing every Japanese city left standing E. Combination of B, C, and D F. Allow Japan to surrender with conditions (such as keeping Taiwan, Korea, and their fascist system of government)

Seriously, not good options in late 1945

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said that as the sole country to face nuclear attack, Japan has the duty to seek to wipe out nuclear weapons.

What a joke for a leader of a country that started the 2nd World War in Asia, bombed Pearl Harbour while talking peace and currently agitating China and South Korea by refusing to admit its atrocities and apologize for them as well as nationalizing the Diaoyu Islands. What talk is this? And, coming from the mouth of Abe, The circus has really returned to Japan with its new talk show artiste.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Good move, Abe please mention this to Obama next time you see him.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nuclear weapons?? How about just focus on fixing the economy and Fukushima? That sounds like a big enough problem in it of itself.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I would love a world where nuclear weapons were unnecessary, but the only way I see that happening is if something even more horrible and destructive is invented to replace them. It's a sick joke... throughout humanity we've all gotten exactly what we had coming to us. But, even the wicked get worse than they deserve. Hopefully nothing like this ever happens again.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A lot of people here have implied that people make too big of a deal out of Hiroshima day, or that Japan tries to remain a victim forever.

But it's only the media really at this time of year- and not majorly either. There is a yearly service at Hiroshima for those lost from the bomb, and newspapers and TV news give it a headline. But no big deal. Nobody says anything really political, one way or the other. Just a rememberance.

And walking down the street (Tokyo area), you'd never know this was "the" day. Or even walking down the cubicles or into bars.

TV programs other than the news don't take it up- maybe there are a few specials, but nothing overboard. It's probably more of a remembrance for the dead thing- how people in Japan treat the days of their relatives' deaths specially and do certain things to send them respect. Don't go reading righteouness or treat-me-like-a-victim or political views into this ceremony.

And if you ask ANYONE, they will always say that STARTING the war was Japan's biggest error. If textbooks are glossing over anything, at least they aren't blaming other countries for anything. (judged not from reading the textbooks, but from what the result is - in other words, what adults think about the issue)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The key point is not the nuclear weapens. It is why they were used. With same reason same situation, people maybe will make the same decision.

So find out the root cause is the most important.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So many years have past and still, judging from the horrible comments on here by some, people still don't get it. Two nuclear bombs were dropped. For WHATEVER the reason, Japan suffered a terrible loss on those days. My heart goes out to all the Hibakusha and their families. I pray for you. After visiting Hiroshima, which was my very first time to visit Japan, I have to say that the city is absolutely beautiful and has rebuilt very well, I think. I enjoyed my time there and stayed with a great Japanese woman whose grandmother was a double Hibakusha. I was treated with absolute respect and kindness by her. I sincerely think I'll end up living there someday. Peace is real and can be achieved. My experience in Hiroshima is proof of this, to me at least. How about we support Hiroshima and Nagasaki and get behind their fight to end all nuclear arms in the world?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I remember seeing a Japanese documentary a year ago. In it all the Japanese who were shown mourning at Hiroshima, met bunch of American soldiers. The Japanese blamed the Americans for the nuclear bombs, and started accusing them of committing genocide. One of the old Americans who bombed Hiroshima said bitterly, if he had to do it all over again, he'd still would do it all over again.

Ironic that it was America who have Japan, their democracy and their constitution - two very things that this man, Shinzo Abe - who's family was deep in committing war crimes but never got punished for it, is looking to change. Japan never had to fight for democracy, it was forced upon them by America.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Those women and children are capable of producing munitions and providing other non-military services to keep a country running. If a country has their homefront still going, the leaders will continue to fight. Look at Japan. The ruling elite were at odds in wanting to surrender, even after the defeats of Okinawa and the PI. Japan still had a large standing army in China, Vietnam and still controlled Singapore and Hong Kong. They thought that they still had the will of the people behind them and wanted to keep fighting, never mind that many had just died in the fire bombing of Tokyo.

True. During war times women and children work on plants and factories, producing munitions. But If you equal civilians to soldiers, approving a doctrine of so-callled Total Waryou are giving a green light to actions of modern day terrorists. They also consider all civilians of western countries as their enemies. That's why they hi-jack civil jets, ramming them into office building or blow up an explosive device on a crowded street. Firebombings of civilians inside cities and towns, nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are acts of State Terrorism. Plain and simple.

There were two million Russian troops ready to march into Japan through the north andthey were under orders to kill everybody

It's a lie.

Sit back and watch the Soviet Union invade and occupy all of China, Korea, and posibbly Hokkaido - killing millions of people in the process.

Another lie..

Soviet Army fought Imperial Kwantung Army in Manchuria, North Korea, Kuril Chain, South Sakhalin. They neither bombed Japanese civilians nor "killed millions". Around 650 000 soldiers and officers of Imperial Kwantung Army became POWs.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

Then why is the Government ignoring the Nuclear Catastrophe in Fukushima?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But If you equal civilians to soldiers, approving a doctrine of so-callled Total Waryou are giving a green light to actions of modern day terrorists.

@technosphere: No terrorism is done by a group and not an organized government. War was declared on both sides. The Japanese actually declared war and had hoped that the declaration was read before Pearl Harbor, but the message didn't get there in time.

What about the propaganda that was going on in Japan at the time? It was the central government urging the people to repel the Americans and fight until the end. Look at what happened to the Japanese civilians on Saipan and how they had to fight, and how many committed suicide. Same on Okinawa. Some were forced to fight and other committed suicide based on beliefs given to them in propaganda by the government. What do you think would have happened to a Japanese person who happened to aid a downed American flyer? They would have been thrown in jail or worse.

Also, look at the fall of the Third Reich. The "Hitler Youth" as well as the old and lame and others that they could find to help continue the fight and face the Allies in Germany towards the end. And one key point you miss, where do you think the armies come from? They come from the civilian poplulation. If the population base can't keep sending young and old men (and in some cases women) to fight the allies, pretty soon the war would be over. Everyone on the other side would be dead.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

technosphere- you seemed to have misread disillusioned's post. It was referring to what COULD have happened. Perhaps you don't agree, but there was no claim that these things HAD happened.

DisillusionedAUG. 06, 2013 - 11:34AM JST Before we go condemning the US and allied forces for the dropping of the bombs let's consider a few other historical facts:

The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man standing and as the war ended thousands committed suicide.

The fire bombings of Tokyo killed more people than the two A-bombs combined.

There were two million Russian troops ready to march into Japan through the north and they were under orders to kill everybody.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Tens of millions of deaths that occured because of WWII have nothing to do with the using of atomic bombs against civilian population of Japanese cities.

And like now you can read into the mind of a dead man and tell us all how he thought. Neat trick. But FYI this does matter. The US wanted the war over now,

Should they have been used? Maybe? Maybe not? But the point is moot and there is nothing anyone can do to change what happened. Crime against humanity? The argument could be made that the entire WAR was a crime against humanity so EVERYONE is guilty. You too.

There were enough sane people in 1945 who called nuclear bombings as brutal actions against innocent civilians.

See, AFTER the fact. you are also using todays definition of war to describe actions of 70 years ago. Doesnt matter, it's not a crime against humanity and never will become one. either. It is what it is and over.

You waste too much energy that could be used to good and peace, but are mired in a quagmire or unwarranted and unfounded anger. I hope you find peace, because that is what today is all about!.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

Hope he knows nuclear reactors can also be weapons of mass destruction

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It is rather amazing to read the argument on civilian casualties here. Does anyone know the Hague Convention on war on land? http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Article.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=BD48EA8AD56596A3C12563CD0051653F

Preamble

Until a more complete code of the laws of war has been issued, the High Contracting Parties deem it expedient to declare that, in cases not included in the Regulations adopted by them, the inhabitants and the belligerents remain under the protection and the rule of the principles of the law of nations, as they result from the usages established among civilized peoples, from the laws of humanity, and the dictates of the public conscience.

Combatants can kill enemy combatants. But combatants cannot kill enemy civilians because they are under the protection of the law of the nation.

Art. 23. In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden

(b) To kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;

(e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;

In addition to prohibition of killing of civilians, these questions should be considered.

hoserfellaAug. 06, 2013 - 09:31AM JST

Chuck3176 - Quote of the year on JT from someone who gets it. Hiroshima and Nagasaki stopped an inevitable invasion of Japan that would have claimed a million more lives on both sides.

This kind of justification sets a very dangerous precedent. Anyone who agrees to it must not complain even if enemy forces wipe out a couple of cities of his country to save the lives of enemy soldiers and some of his countrymen in a future conflict.

I agree with CrazyJoe. I think of the people who died in nuclear explosion.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Abe made no mention of the dilemma this resource-scarce country is facing over nuclear energy, nor of the tens of thousands of people displaced by risks from radioactivity from a nuclear disaster in Fukushima.

BIgot!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"We Japanese..."

always makes me cringe.

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@sfjp330

Another reason Japan and Germany dealt with the aftermath of WWII was geopolitics. After the war Germany was forced to interact with its European neighbors politically and economically. It had no other option. Consequently, it had to acknowledge its proximal role in the inhumanity of the war. Anyone remember Willy Brandt kneeling in Warsaw?

Japan, on the other hand, turned west (east?) to the US and didn't really need to reestablish relations with Korea or China. This worked well for Japan for many years, but now the world economy is shifting toward China. Old wounds, start picking.

Can you imagine a Japanese Prime Minister kneeling at Nanking?

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@CH3CHO

"This kind of justification sets a very dangerous precedent. Anyone who agrees to it must not complain even if enemy forces wipe out a couple of cities of his country to save the lives of enemy soldiers and some of his countrymen in a future conflict."

I don't see the precedent you describe. We can restrict those with no right to complain about having their cities wiped out to citizens of countries currently occupying other countries through violent invasion and a war which they declared. Is that so wrong?

Disillusioned above makes a good point that so many elderly Japanese have no great problem with America's actions. I've found this to be true, especially among those who lived through the war. I remember one man telling me he was practicing with his bamboo spear as a kid near Mount Fuji when he heard of the Hiroshima bombing. He implied it was kind of funny when he looked at his spear and thought of the bomb. Another who, as a kid, saw his first American, a US pilot flying very low near Osaka in the days after the surrender. He said he felt happy and excited. Another was a trained Kamikaze pilot in Kyushu, yet to be sent on a mission when the war ended. He was 19, and told me they preferred to send the 16-year olds as they were less likely to ditch the planes than the older boys like himself. But they were running out of 16-year olds and so he was getting nervous. My favorite story was from a retired schoolteacher in Shizuoka. He was serving in China when they were given the order to march south. Not wanting to get shot, he moved in with a Chinese couple he had become friendly with and lived with them as their son for the rest of the war. When the war ended, he donned his uniform again and slipped in with the returning troops.

All old war stories, so no doubt embellished some. But whether true or not, they represent what people prefer to remember. And the common theme was that the end of the war signaled better times. Unfortunately, it came at a great cost in human lives.

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I went to Hiroshima on the 50th anniversary. There was a recorded message in the Peace Park at the epicentre. It was disgustingly right-wing glorifying those who nobly gave up their lives for their country. They did not nobly give up their lives. The poor sods were sacrificed to boost the egos of their leaders and Emperor who did not want to lose face by surrendering.

Meanwhile, there is a miserable little memorial across the river for the Koreans who were sacrificed for someone else's country and are not mentioned in the Peace Park.

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albaleo

We can restrict those with no right to complain about having their cities wiped out to citizens of countries currently occupying other countries through violent invasion and a war which they declared. Is that so wrong?

That will not work. Look at the history of each country. Territory was gained through war and violence. That means any country is liable to the claim "they took our land", and annihilation of its cities.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Dear Mr Abe,

I wholeheartedly approve of eliminating nuclear weapons. It is an excellent idea.

I would like to point out to you, that as has been demonstrated, a nuclear power plant in the hands of TEPCO is a nuclear weapon. Hiroshima and Nagasaki recovered and became vibrant cities in ten to fifteen years. It will take a lot longer for Fukushima to recover.

I would also like to suggest that countries reduce their armies and stockpiles of weapons, yet you want to build up Japan's military.

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Disillusioned: "The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man standing and as the war ended thousands committed suicide."

Utter BS. There is more than enough proof they were ready to surrender, FAR more than enough proof many killed themselves, or were forced to, against the war of attrition. The only thing none of the apologists have is proof that 'millions would have died' if the bombings had not taking place. To your credit, at least you don't praise the bombings as 'saving lives'.

"There were two million Russian troops ready to march into Japan through the north and they were under orders to kill everybody."

What does this have to do with the bombing save to prove it was not necessity, but strictly political? In fact, you more than prove it was less about the bombings than it was pressure to surrender and face the lesser of two enemies as quickly as possible.

CH3CHO: "I think of the people who died in nuclear explosion."

Unless they're Korean, right? Or wait, since you're all Korean by blood, or Chinese maybe, as your own emperor admitted, you might not like that.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

how can he eliminate nuclear weapons ? he does not even have one....

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gaijintraveller,

Meanwhile, there is a miserable little memorial across the river for the Koreans who were sacrificed for someone else's country and are not mentioned in the Peace Park.

Look here. http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/VirtualMuseum_j/tour/ireihi/tour_20.html

The explanation says that the stone box in the center of the monument contains a name list of people, both Japanese and foreigners, who died as a result of the A bomb attack.

This is what you call "a miserable little memorial". http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/VirtualMuseum_j/tour/ireihi/tour_11.html

It says the monument is placed there because the corpse of Yi Wu, who was the Prince of Korea and was a lieutenant colonel serving in Hiroshima, was found there.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"And they shall beat their swords into plowshares."

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Citizen2012Aug. 06, 2013 - 07:38PM JST

Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

how can he eliminate nuclear weapons ? he does not even have one....

That reminds me the famous speech by US President Obama that earned him a Nobel Peace Price.

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Utter BS. There is more than enough proof they were ready to surrender, FAR more than enough proof many killed themselves, or were forced to, against the war of attrition. The only thing none of the apologists have is proof that 'millions would have died' if the bombings had not taking place. To your credit, at least you don't praise the bombings as 'saving lives'.

No, they were not ready surrender. Some military groups even had a failed attempt to stop the Emperor from giving the surrender speech. They were training women with bamboo spears to fight in the mainland.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Thomas AndersonAug. 06, 2013 - 08:07PM JST

No, they were not ready surrender. Some military groups even had a failed attempt to stop the Emperor from giving the surrender speech. They were training women with bamboo spears to fight in the mainland.

That sounds to me more of the proof that the government was ready to surrender than not.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

CH3CHO: "That sounds to me more of the proof that the government was ready to surrender than not."

It doesn't in any way whatsoever. Smacks of desperation, for sure, but is in no way a sign someone is willing to surrender. We rarely agree, but I do agree with you that the signs point to Japan being willing to surrender (not the 'proof' you gave, but still), and if you read my posts you know I see the bombings as nothing more than politically motivated crimes of humanity. That said, you need to lay off the blaming everything on Koreans. You have so far TWICE on this thread for whatever reason brought SK into this, without any rational as to why. So, are you FOR the type of hate that produced the results of the bombings, or against it? Please don't suggest there's an in-between dependent on nationality.

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No, they were not ready surrender. Some military groups even had a failed attempt to stop the Emperor from giving the surrender speech.

This is really low-grade reasoning here.

First of all, there was a group within the political and military system that was pressing for surrender. There was another group that didn't want to surrender under any circumstances. Not even after the atomic bombs were dropped. When death is preferable to surrender, it doesn't really matter how it comes.

Did the bombs tilt the scales in favor of the surrender faction? Certainly. But there were many other factors that would have tilted the scales that way too in very short time -- and which did not involve a massive invasion of Honshu.

Several Japanese cities were not bombed and kept in "pristine" shape -- Hiroshima and Nagasaki among them -- because they were chosen as targets for what was as much a mass scientific experiment on a human population as much as anything else. After surrender, the U.S. couldn't wait to get scientists on the scene to examine the results.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ Technosphere - There were two million Russian troops on the ready to march through Japan leaving no survivors. I think you need to look up your history before calling anybody a liar. The build up of Russian troops actually hastened and confirmed the decision to drop the bombs cos the US didn't want Russia to wipe out what was left if the Japanese population nor give them control of the archapeligo.

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Yabits: " There was another group that didn't want to surrender under any circumstances. Not even after the atomic bombs were dropped. When death is preferable to surrender, it doesn't really matter how it comes."

Didn't you hear that fact was retracted?

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Actually the number has been found to be 40,000 Korean slave laborers dead, much greater than always thought. I am grateful for their sacrifice, but this was something that was needed to be done, otherwise many more Koreans would have been killed.

'Their sacrifice'? Really? You honestly think their families felt the same way about their loved ones being vapourised in a foreign land?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I've found this to be true, especially among those who lived through the war. I remember one man telling me he was practicing with his bamboo spear as a kid near Mount Fuji when he heard of the Hiroshima bombing. He implied it was kind of funny when he looked at his spear and thought of the bomb. Another who, as a kid, saw his first American, a US pilot flying very low near Osaka in the days after the surrender. He said he felt happy and excited. Another was a trained Kamikaze pilot in Kyushu, yet to be sent on a mission when the war ended. He was 19, and told me they preferred to send the 16-year olds as they were less likely to ditch the planes than the older boys like himself. But they were running out of 16-year olds and so he was getting nervous. My favorite story was from a retired schoolteacher in Shizuoka. He was serving in China when they were given the order to march south. Not wanting to get shot, he moved in with a Chinese couple he had become friendly with and lived with them as their son for the rest of the war. When the war ended, he donned his uniform again and slipped in with the returning troops.

Nice fairy tale from a westerner. And I would like to see something like that from Japanese participants of this forum. You know, why? Because my Japanese friends merely dislike Americans.

There were two million Russian troops on the ready to march through Japan leaving no survivors. I think you need to look up your history before calling anybody a liar.

Once again : it's a lie, plain and simple. Our history has nothing to do with your irresponsible statements here. Feel free to back your irresponsible statements concerning to "bloody Russian invaders of Japan" by valid sources. For instances, hyperlinks to orders of Joseph Stalin "to invade Japan and kill everyone" . I am waiting for your sources.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

been to Hiroshima few months back, seeing the peace park and museum, every bit of information was quite well documented for generations to see, quite impressed but quite sad deep inside to see the reality of what was happening, everything comes alive once visiting Hiroshima, very recommendable place that really worth a look for any students and people visiting japan.

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Well, we've got Obama and now Abe seeking to eliminate nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, the leaders of Russia and China aren't seeking to eliminate nuclear weapons. What's up with that?

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Didn't you hear that fact was retracted?

I didn't know that a fact was something that could be retracted. Perhaps in the worlds of some.

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Chucky wrote "I remember seeing a Japanese documentary a year ago. In it all the Japanese who were shown mourning at Hiroshima, met bunch of American soldiers. The Japanese blamed the Americans for the nuclear bombs, and started accusing them of committing genocide. One of the old Americans who bombed Hiroshima said bitterly, if he had to do it all over again, he'd still would do it all over again."

Chucky, what document? Was there 99 year old A-bomb pilot? Did all these Japanese talk in English? Or is this another one of your lie comment?

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I wonder if Japan had nuclear weapons at that moment, the United States would throw the bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? in order "to save the lives" of American soldiers.

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Serrano Well, we've got Obama and now Abe seeking to eliminate nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, the leaders of Russia and China aren't seeking to eliminate nuclear weapons. What's up with that?

You're a real comedian! What difference if you have 9400 nuclear warheads and 300 warheads? It makes no difference. United States would be able to destroy the planet several times with half of these warheads.

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While a laudable goal, it's simply not realistic. Nuclear weapons are the currant pinnacle of military power and a lot of countries want them to for their arsenals for various reasons.

Will. Never. Happen

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Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

Fogey Ishihara will have something to say about that.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Abe's /Japan's message not heard ...just try to find any English news stories reporting this today. There are barely any.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Abe pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons

First pledge to seek to eliminate your nuclear waste at Fukushima.

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technosphere: "Nice fairy tale from a westerner."

Credibility? meet toilet.

yabits: "I didn't know that a fact was something that could be retracted. Perhaps in the worlds of some."

'Twas sarcasm, but I retract it since I was misunderstood. :)

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@technosphere

"Nice fairy tale from a westerner. And I would like to see something like that from Japanese participants of this forum. You know, why? Because my Japanese friends merely dislike Americans."

These tales were from people who had lived through the war. I've heard nothing like such comments from the next generation. You seem to have a narrow bunch of friends if they all dislike Americans.

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CH3CHO

That sounds to me more of the proof that the government was ready to surrender than not.

The problem was that the government was not in control, the military was.

It's well documented that hundred of thousands, if not millions of more lives would have been lost without the atomic bombing. Tragic, but it's true.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

You know, some folks amaze me with their complete ignorance.

If they had a clue what these weapons could do they would also be calling for their end.

But, sadly and I dare say sadly, the only way to prove to them the futility and horror of these weapons is the chaos that follows them.

The PRC and it's servant nations hug these weapons like they were a friend, but they sadly they will realize the horrors those weapons when they cry havoc and let slip those dogs of war.

The perfect man ignores self, the divine man ignores action, the true Sage ignores reputation.

Ole William was a perfect man of all times, for his words have not lost their meaning.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

But what Abe going to do about North which carelessly stockpiling nukes.

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No to diffuse the concept of China downscaling the amount of nukes they might purchase and build over time, but the Great Leap forward and Cultural Revolution wasn't that long ago. And 90 M of their own dead because of it.

Peaceful intentions are not on the Chinese top shelf of options, truth be told..

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Does Abe have influence in Tehran? The Mullahs believe that nukes are the ticket to religious rule around the world, they don't like Shinto adherents any more than Christians.

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Unfortunately long as the so called corrupt super powers and nations exist, such things like A bomb and other absurdity shall exist, along side with our brutal, tyrannical government and systems under the guise of freedom (freedumb), democracy (hypocracy) and god (fraud.)

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