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Activists claim Japanese whalers were hurt by their own pepper spray

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Bring him back to Japan and put him on trial for terrorism because that's what he's been up to. A lengthy jail sentence should sort out these kind of capers in the future.

Sounds like a good plan. But I doubt it will prevent any of his followers from doing it in the future.

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But OssanAmerica you just don't get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndaXQeRPO0g

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But OssanAmerica you just don't get it.

Whales are super special. Didn't you see Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home? If we don't save the whales an alien probe will destroy the Earth.

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However, these whales are mammals, and social creatures to boot. So >killing them isn't the killing of a "dumb animal", but almost akin to >murder.

The killing of many mammals is akin to "murder". Some even non-mammals. Either that or we simply accept that only humans can be "murdered".

For culling the whales will disturb their community.

The culling of any group/herd oriented animal will disturb their community.

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All this fuss for protecting a whale species (the minke) which isn't being over hunted anymore. The cull rate by all countries still hunting whales is far below the birth rate of said whale. I am not saying this to condone whale hunting, even for "scientific" reasons.

I'm just stating what is known about the minke to date.

However, these whales are mammals, and social creatures to boot. So killing them isn't the killing of a "dumb animal", but almost akin to murder.

For culling the whales will disturb their community.

And I am not saying that because I condone the Sea Shepard's actions.

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The Ady Gil was this not 3 million dollars worth of boat and was this not a weapon? Yes, mi'Lord. Did said boat not have on board it an arsenal of weapons in it's own right? Yes, mi'Lord. Was the pirate's vessel not ploughed into the Shonan Maru in an attempt to gain media coverage for it's own cause, thereby endangering the lives of it's own crew in a misguided attempt at becoming martyrs to that cause? Yes, mi'Lord.

Bring him to London, I've got my wig and gown here, I'll put away with ease and would do it for free.

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Makkun70, what exactly were the terror tactcs employed by this unarmed man?

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Bring him back to Japan and put him on trial for terrorism because that's what he's been up to. A lengthy jail sentence should sort out these kind of capers in the future.

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From a New Zealand newspaper:

New Zealand skipper Peter Bethune appears to be refusing to allow himself to be transferred from the whaling ship Shonan Maru which he illegally boarded in Antarctic waters yesterday, says Foreign Minister Murray McCully.

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Sorry that should have been QWMBB12.

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ca1ic0cat

Thanks for the straight facts. I thought that was the way the regs worked. And you are spot on with the butyric acid. There are many more hazardous chemicals but it can and will cause at least temporary pain and discomfort.

From another site I was directed to google QWBMM12. It is a backpack fire extinguisher that looks amazingly like what we see the Japanese crew wearing. And since the SSCS has fired flares at the whalers a number of times I could see having a few guys ready to respond to any fire that may be started.

Also if you listen to the video (which really should start about a minute earlier and run a minute longer, I wonder why it doesn't) the SSCS crew acts surprised at the sprayers like they are something brand new. But weeks ago Paul Watson mentioned the whalers wearing silver tanks. So why the surprise, unless this is a weeks old video from when they first encountered the tanks and not video from recently? Also it appears that the pictures that the SSCS released from the event have had their exif data removed so you can't tell when they were taken. Again why would this be done when other SSCS pictures have the data intact?

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their legal responsibility to bring crew of the sunken ship to land.

You better brush up on your COLREGS. All vessels have a burden to render assistance in an emergency. But the emergency regarding the sinking was over weeks ago. Cap'n crunch's boarding the Japanese ship does not constitue an emergency. Also, mr wailer cap'n crunch has no authority to direct the vessel to any given port even if he was picked up in an emergency. The crew rescued from a sinking vessel has the right to accompany the rescuing ship to the port that the ship is going to; or they can make arrangements to be picked up. At their expense. The rescuing vessel has no responsibility other than to get them out of the sea and to shore somewhere. Also, since Cap'n crunch boarded the ship without permission he is now, legally, the prisoner of the captain of the ship he boarded.

On the topic of the butyric acid: the stuff is non-toxic. That is, you can eat it and be OK. But it is a skin and eye irritant and the Material Safety Data Sheet is quite clear about that.

What is amusing is how long it took the SS to come up with their drivel about how the Japanese crew "injured themselves." The SS really are pathetic, IMHO.

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The trespassing issue is very thorny and convoluted. Let’s just say that >with all the different nations involved and the International laws it >would be hard to figure out who has jurisdiction and what charges are >actually appropriate. That all assumes he doesn't do anything to damage >the Japanese vessel.

In general the UN IMO regulations hold, in which case Bethune is guilty of surreptitious boarding and will likely be treated as a stowaway.

"International Maritime Organisation guidelines on the allocation of responsibilities to seek the successful resolution of stowaway cases, endorsed and agreed at the IMO, London, January 1996" http://www.eurasylum.org/stowaway/news/imo.html

Bethune has also admitted to property damage, tearing the protective fencing on the J-ship in order to gain entry. http://www.icrwhale.org/pdf/100215Release-b.pdf

However, I believe the Master of the Whaler has the right to follow the Maritime Laws of his flag state as well and I am unaware at this time as to what difference there may be, if any.

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Heda Madness, you may not be an expert but you are exactly correct. Especially when you remember the fact that Mr. Bethune was returned to Australia by the ship that rescued him, well OK the Bob Barker rescued him but he voluntarily transferred from the Bob Barker to the Steve Irwin which then returned him to Australia. So the fact that he decided to return to sea was his choice, any rescue obligation was taken care of when his feet hit dry ground.

The trespassing issue is very thorny and convoluted. Let’s just say that with all the different nations involved and the International laws it would be hard to figure out who has jurisdiction and what charges are actually appropriate. That all assumes he doesn't do anything to damage the Japanese vessel.

A more interesting question is whether as an uninvited 'guest', do the Japanese have a duty to feed him? Could they just ignore him, let him sleep on the deck and scrounge for food?

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One would have to board with permission, which he did not.

Doesn't matter. They sunk his ship and it's their legal responsibility to bring crew of the sunken ship to land. We'll see what happens though.

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womanforwomen...there is a story about it now on JT. And no, he did not board legally. One would have to board with permission, which he did not

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According to the article that Cleo posted:

The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society had filed a complaint of attempted murder with New Zealand police but nothing came of it. He's quite angry that the New Zealand Government has done nothing to represent him and his boat," Mr Watson said.

Very interesting because I could have sworn I read something along the lines of New Zealand authorities pressing charges. Demanding to speak to the Shonan Maru skipper etc. It suggests that, not for the first time, SS are acting outside of the law.

Who would have thought that they were capable of such actions.

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How did Bethune get on board the Japanese vessel? Atleast that, I hope he did legally.

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Having sunk my vessel, and with our issuing of a mayday call, you have an obligation under maritime law to provide me with safe passage back to land.

I'm no expert on maritime law but I would have thought the fact that the mayday was issued over a month ago and that he has been safe and sound on a Sea Shepherd vessel during the following weeks would suggest that there is no longer any obligation. And now he could face possible trespassing charges.

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stevecpfc at 11:18 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, and we disagree about who are terrorists. The FBI took not >30 hours, 30 days or 30 weeks to label the IRA as terrorist but over 30 >years. The FBI is led by a political agenda and has low credibility >outside of teh American right wingers.

Maybe you are not aware of the extent that Eco-Terrorism is in the United States. http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Ecoterrorism.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=eco

The Japanese attempted to harm Sea Sheperd crew with expensive and no >doubt government sponsored equipment, but hurt themselves and look like >idiots.

You actuallu believe the SS nonsense? You actually believe that little video shows capsicum being used?

I think taxpayers and citizens of a country whos taxes are being used >for acts they oppose have more right to complain than those who live >overseas.

Can you cite one legal precedence for such a position regarding the right to "complain"?

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Gawd, I wish this would stop being so funny, I'm getting no work done.

When Mr Bethune knocked on the bridge door, a Japanese crew member came out, tried to shoo him away, and walked back inside, ignoring the Kiwi intruder.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10626353

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I don't think this time Japan will not return him to SS on the water.

Bethune says that he will refuse to return to the SI unless the captain of the SM2 accompanies him in custody.

The wailers now have a dilemma. No way are they going to meekly transfer their captain to the SI: it's very difficult to imagine that they would indeed sail to NZ and subject themselves to an investigation there; the only other option is to bring him back to Japan, and that opens up a whole new can of wriggly worms which I really don't think they want to get into. A PR nightmare.

I am requesting that you transfer now to the Steve Irwin, where we will take you into custody, and we will deliver you to the Maritime Safety Authority and the New Zealand Police once we reach Wellington (New Zealand).

If you refuse to be arrested, then I am requesting that you deliver me to Wellington (New Zealand). Having sunk my vessel, and with our issuing of a mayday call, you have an obligation under maritime law to provide me with safe passage back to land.

I will refuse to be handed over to any Sea Shepherd vessel. I will also refuse to be handed over to any New Zealand or Australian Coastguard, Customs or Naval vessel. I will only leave the Shonan Maru when you transfer with me to the Steve Irwin, or when we arrive on land, be it New Zealand or Australia.

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I don't think this time Japan will not return him to SS on the water. Japan will press charge against him and take him to the trial in Japan because he is on board of Japan.

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Ballsy thing to do. I'm assuming that the Shonan Maru skipper then arrested him for ramming the Shinan Maru and endangering the life of the crew. Should be a fun court case in Tokyo.

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cleo - There are 6 vessels including mother vessel down there. Each harpoon vessel except mother is holding one whale at least and they transfer them to the mother over night. I hardly think each vessel did not hunt any.

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At 0800 Hours, once the sun had risen, Captain Bethune calmly knocked on the bridge wing door, entered the wheelhouse, and presented himself to the Captain of Shonan Maru 2 where he informed the skipper that he was under arrest for the sinking of the Sea Shepherd ship Ady Gil on January 6th, 2010.

All radio communications with Peter Bethune ceased at 0805. The Shonan Maru 2 did acknowledge that Bethune was onboard.

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100215-2.html

http://www.icrwhale.org/pdf/100215Release.pdf

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Why Japanese whalers had to ram such SS? What for? Whalers are very busy about hunting whales all over.

That's the whole point, kwatt. The whalers are not busy hunting whales, because SS is preventing them from doing so. Not a single whale has been killed in the ten days the BB and SI have been with the fleet. Unless they can either get the SS off their tail or sink/immobilise their vessels, the whale hunt I mean 'research' is over for this season is over.

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kwatt, i think kamikaze may not be a good word to use to nsupport your flimsy case.

The whalers attacked with a chemical, amybe pepper spray, amybe something else. They have on numerous occaisons rammed SS and previously Greenpeace ships.

Please read independent sources not Japanese media or SS site and you may be enlightened.

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stevecpfc - Why Japanese whalers had to ram such SS? What for? Whalers are very busy about hunting whales all over. I don't think that they have such a time to ram other vessels, but it is understandable if SS tried to ram Japanese vessels on purpose to attack them like "Kamikaze".

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kwatt, you will find that the whalers rammed SS and Greenpeace a few years ago, but if you only read Japanese media you might draw a different conclusion.

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stevecpfc - I think there are so many anti-whalers all over the world but real activists who are going to the water every year are not many at all, so limited. Japanese vessels are not going to Antarctic waters to ram or protest SS vessels every year but SS/BB are going there to ram, protest and throw something to Japanese vessels intentionally. That is a big difference to me.

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attack? Because from the video you can clearly see that they're aiming at the activists can't you? The activists have come in for more criticism this year, from a wide variety of sources, than ever before. Just remember that the likes of Greenpeace and the IWC are critical of their excessive tactics. They may be better supported than the whalers but they aren't 'well' supported.

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Kwatt, for them tehir job is protesting which their supporters pay via donations. I don`t know what you mean by "normal" is that salaryman or homeless or something?

The activists are supported much more than the whalers. This idiotic attack that went wrong, really makes the whalers look like ignorant pillocks.

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stevecpfc - I know something about SS. What I know is someone really like to pay these guys protesting Japanese whaling vessels, but they don't have proper jobs like ordinary people whatever you say.

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Kwatt, if you don`t even know how Sea Shepherd are funded and how they operate, why bother posting?

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OssanAmerica, and we disagree about who are terrorists. The FBI took not 30 hours, 30 days or 30 weeks to label the IRA as terrorist but over 30 years. The FBI is led by a political agenda and has low credibility outside of teh American right wingers.

The Japanese attempted to harm Sea Sheperd crew with expensive and no doubt government sponsored equipment, but hurt themselves and look like idiots.

I think taxpayers and citizens of a country whos taxes are being used for acts they oppose have more right to complain than those who live overseas.

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cleo - As far as I see video by SS, Japanese vessels are not all black coloring, but some parts. I wonder which one it is? I think whalers are well paid by the government. Their jobs are good money but in dangerous waters. I wonder how SS guys can make livings while not working every day. All no families?

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Sea Shepherd anticipates that the Japanese will hold Captain Bethune as prisoner onboard the Shonan Maru 2.

I wonder what the legal definition of boarding a ship without permission is. Piracy? Trespassing? Presumably Shonan Maru 2 will be well withing their rights to hold him until they are able to place him in the care of the relevant authorities which in this case could very well be the Japanese slammer. Though as he's almost certainly put an illegal tracking device on the boat as well, I'm sure a few more charges could be added on.

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cleo, thanks for posting the great link. I admire your stance re this issue.

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Cleo:

Just for the record, Iceland arrested paul Watson, deported him and declared him persona non grata He cannot enter Iceland, Noreay has three arrest warrants out for him and he faces at jail term there. Norway has asked the U.S. to extradite him.

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stevecpfc at 09:54 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, I have more right and does my family in Japan to protest >the "whaling" than someone who is not affected financially by it.

I disagree. Assuming we both reside in democracies, no one has any more or less right to "protest" any cause than anyone else.

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Japanese whalers are working there for their life

They could go home and get proper jobs that didn't involve them being subsidised by my taxes to torture animals.

their vessels are all black colorings and guys wear black cloths and sky masks

Ah yes, I forgot, the bad guys always wear black and the good guys always wear white and ride a white horse.

What colour are the whaling ships? (Leaving aside the decks, which thankfully haven't been soaked in red for the past ten days and hopefully for the remainder of the season.)

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So who indeed are the criminals?

Yes, Sea Shepherd obviously. SS has been using too much violence we all can recognize easily. Impression of SS/BB is not good, their vessels are all black colorings and guys wear black cloths and sky masks like terrorist. Japanese vessels have to use water cannons back to SS because they approach SM too close and try to ram to SM when they have a chance. Japanese whalers are working there for their life but SS guys are playing like damn child for nothing.

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Oh my.

Captain Pete Bethune Boards Shonan Maru 2 to Arrest Japanese Skipper

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100214-2.html

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Ah...sorry to have taken your words out of context, Heda_Madness! I get what you are saying, now. And to clarify...I am anti-whaling with regard to how it is being done right now. Stick to real traditional whaling, which is sustainable (since, if done traditionally, it takes far fewer whales) in one's own waters. Thousands of kilometers away is hardly traditional.

I have seen videos of things that SSCS has done that involved uncovering lies; like footage of shark-finning and such. It was done in such a way that no one was really at risk and it was really valuable information and footage that should be used to educate and spread the word to people about such things. Unfortunately that good work is not cool enough and dangerous enough for big ratings in the States and to get big money from rich celebs. With SS doing "Whale Wars", they are putting their lives in danger not to save whales but to be on a TV show. There isn't a whole lot of real education or true awareness going on, just a bunch of sensationalized crap for ratings.

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For those who accuse Sea Shepherd of being criminals, Captain Paul Watson has only this to say: "If we are criminals, either arrest us or shut the hell up. ..... Japanese whalers are barred from entering Australian and New Zealand waters. Sea Shepherd ships are not barred. Japanese whalers are barred from Indonesian waters. Sea Shepherd ships are not. If a Japanese whaling ship enters an Australian or New Zealand port it will be arrested. Sea Shepherd ships are not arrested.

So who indeed are the criminals?

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100214-1.html

there's also no evidence to suggest that this is the incident that the Japanese whalers claim to have been caused by SS.

Indeed there isn't. It's still funny, though.

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Cleo, there's also no evidence to suggest that this is the incident that the Japanese whalers claim to have been caused by SS. It is possible for them to be two seperate incidents and there is only Paul Watson/Hobbsy70 (I'm starting to believe they are one and the same) who say it's the same incident. Despite their being no time or date stamp.

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Peachy, just to clarify I'm not actually anti-whaling but I am anti SS and anti people using this forum to spout inaccurate lies. But I do accept the position of people like Cleo and ADK99 on their anti-whaling stance.

I'm disaapointed that the moderator saw fit to edit my last post. Based on this I can only assume that their policy is you can't be off topic, but you can lie as much as you like about anyone particularly subject. Just as long as it's on topic.

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I think the Japanese men just tested own extinguishers in different time, because they are like fire team. It does not look like they were in trouble with pepper at all. SS just used the video as japan's attack for SS convenient. Japanese seamanship was died accidentally, nothing to do with SS. Accidents happened a few times in the past, not by SS.

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As far as I know those are fire extinguishers being tested in the video and Watson is lying as he always does

He may be wrong as to what was in the tanks, but there's no denying the video evidence that the ghostbusters sprayed into the wind and zapped themselves.

OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

There's nothing wrong with being pro-Japan. I'm pro-Japan, it's my home, I love this place. Doesn't stop me criticising what's wrong, though. Like whaling.

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yet SSCS crew are able to travel without fear of arrest, there are NO international arrest warrents for SSCS members.

Either Paul Watson is not a member of SSCS or you slipped with regard to research again. There are many countries where he will be arrested the second he enters their territory again.

As for the Japanese crew not wanting a camera crew on board, it could be that they are hiding something or it could be that they aren't into getting on TV while doing their work. No, I do not condone it, I am indeed anti-whaling, but putting myself in the shoes of the guys on board those ships, they are just simple guys doing a job. Oh and by the way, if SSCS were clever enough, they would try to see things from the whalers' side...getting into the heads of your enemy is a far more intelligent and effective tactic than just running around pissing them off. But then again, what media glory and celebrity elbow-rubbing would there be in that? None. SSCS will continue being the idiots that they are. Good intentions without a clue how to achieve them. I still think they are sacrificing the lives of countless whales in the longterm just for a shot at their 15 minutes of fame.

And as for LRADs being military grade...they are commonly used in all kinds of civilian situations as well for crowd control, safety warnings, announcements, etc. They are not all that dangerous unless you are at very, very close range. The Japanese ships have been using them to warn the SSCS ships when they are getting too close, asking them to stop what they are doing and have also used them to make getting too close to the ship annoying for the approaching ships. And as most can see from the videos, it doesn't really bother SSCS crew all that much.

I am with HedaMadness...it is possible to anti-whaling and anti-SSCS. They won't stop until someone is seriously injured or killed...and I highly doubt even that would stop them. Paul Watson doesn't care an ounce for the lives of the young people that SSCS recruits.

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OssanAmerica, I have more right and does my family in Japan to protest the "whaling" than someone who is not affected financially by it.

Kwatt, the whalers tried to spray a substance at teh protesters, that may have endangered their saftey. This violent action may make bigger violence. Japanese whalers has died, likely due to poor seamanship and skils and refusing help from a nearby vessel.

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If anti-whalers think Japan's research is something illegal, they should demonstrate as much as they can or take this case to the international court or to international something, but DON'T use dangerous violence actions in the most dangerous high seas that both Australian and New Zealand govts recognize. Violence makes bigger violence. Fight makes bigger fight. War makes much longer war,,,we don't get anywhere after all. This is both pro-whalers and anti-whalers can agree at least. Otherwise someone would be died there sooner or later, then it would be much messier both sides.

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I suggest you read "From spikes to bombs: The rise of eco-terrorism" by Sean P. Eagan. Not only does the FBI take eco-terrorism very seriously so does Scotland Yard. SS has its offices in Washington State, and for the very reason you mention they conduct their criminal activities carefully in waters outside of US Coast Guard jurisdiction, and avoid any conflict with US flagged vessels. They have a long history of cponflict with Maritime Law Enforcement Authorities of Canada and Norway. http://www.highnorth.no/library/movements/Sea_Shepherd/se-sh-re.htm If you go the Animal Planet wensite forums you will see that there is considerable condemnation by Americans of Animal Planet effectively profiting from eco-terrorism and demand for the Whale Wars show to be terminated.

You say you consider the whalers to be "whaling", well then, they are >breaching their agreement of only carrying out scientific research.

The IWC permits "whaling for research purposes". The ICR, the Japaense Agency conducting the whalking submits their plan to the proper IWC comittee. Which may make recommendations but are nonbinding. What the ICR are doing is complying with all the IWC rules right down to marking heir ships "research" and actually conducting research to follow up on it. Are they using a "loophole"? Absolutelty. Is it legal? Yes it is. My position gas been to freeze research hunting.

I know Watson tells tall stories but that does not make the whalers in >the right. They tell lies and have been found out many times and you may >disagree but the attack on the AG was deliberate and well caluclated as >a NZ court may decide in the future.

What was deliberate? That the AG was idling after having harassed the mother ship Nisshin Maru, and the Shonan Maru NO.2 approached to shoo it away with LRAD screaming and water cannons firing? Yes that was deliberate. And what did the AG do? The crew sat on deck laughing at the SM2 appraoched from a distance without makig the slighest effotr to run despite the AG being many many times faster than the SM2. And when the vessels were close the AG suddenly accelerated forward crossing the SM2's path thereby causing the collision. You can see the white propwash at the stern of the AG appear at the last minute in the video which is absolute proof that it was moving forward. You clain that the SM2 was guilty of a "deliberate attack" meaning there was an intentnto ram from the start. If so, why thej would the SM2 have approached the AG with water cannons on? This is evident in all 3 videos, 2 taken from SS vessels. If there was intent to ram there would no purpose in using the water cannon which is used to cause the other vessel to "go away". I doubt very much any NZleand court is going to look at this matter and even if they did they would find the AG at fault.

As a payer of Japanese taxes, then i feel i have a right to complain as >my taxes subsidise this "research", do you not believe that as i pay >maybe a small amount towards these operations i am against, then i >should be able to voice my protest?

As a tax payer you most certainly have a right to voice your opinion. But you have no right whatsoever to claim "more concern" than anyone else based on that fact.

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OssanAmerica, I feel strongly against the whalers behaviour and whaling, but also do not agree with demonstartors causing endangerment through their activities. I am not Australian, i am British, i do not take note of what teh FBI call terrorists unless i see them deliberatly causing terror, i haven`t seen that from SS. I am sure that Animal Planet would not be allowe dto broadcast from a terrorist ship under US law if the FBI seriously considered them a terrorist threat.

You say you consider the whalers to be "whaling", well then, they are breaching their agreement of only carrying out scientific research.

I know Watson tells tall stories but that does not make the whalers in the right. They tell lies and have been found out many times and you may disagree but the attack on the AG was deliberate and well caluclated as a NZ court may decide in the future.

As a payer of Japanese taxes, then i feel i have a right to complain as my taxes subsidise this "research", do you not believe that as i pay maybe a small amount towards these operations i am against, then i should be able to voice my protest?

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stevecpfc at 01:37 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, 2my issue isn`t about whaling" really? Every one of your >posts is pro Japan whilst you often claim you are not.

stevecpfc at 03:25 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through >them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

Firstly, You are wrong. Look at the other thread on this topic and you will see that I advocate closing the IWC loophole to make "reaearch hunting" illegal. Not just saying "illegal" but actually making it so. "OssanAmerica at 01:36 PM JST - 14th February "I've said a billion times before, go close the loophole"

Secondly, note how you never accuse me of being pro-whaler, but pro-Japan. My understanding is that there are some J-nationals in Sea Shepherd. The 2 Greenpeace activists curently in jail in Japan are J-nationals. This is both a whaling/anti-whaling issue as well as a lawful protest/eco-terrorism issue. But what it is not, except to latent and overt racists,is a Japan vs Australia or the world issue. If you have J-family who are against whaling as you suggest then you should understand exactly what I am saying.I do not consider what the whalers are doing to be "terrorism". I consider them to be "whaling". The SS are harassing them and interfering in their operations. The FBI calls them eco-terrorists. This claim by SS that the whalers tried to use capsicum is very dubious for reasons I have already outlined, and considering Watson is a known liar, unless you believe his magic bullet story as well, most likely the whalers were filmed testing firefighting equipment. As for you paying Japanese taxes, I don't see that giving you any particular right to voice your opinion over anyone else. My concern comes from relationships with those who work at sea and the risks they take. This is why anyone even remotely connected to maritime navigation both militareyvand civilian abhors Sea Shepherds criminal acts.

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stevecpfc at 04:01 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, i am far from racist, but i am also not a "phile" of any >kind, in fact nobody ahs ever called me a racist before. You have lost >the argument hands down and yes if it was the other way round i believe >100% you would support Japanese demonstartors. Obviously i have hit a >raw nerve. Calling me a racist is agaist policy on this site, an apolgy will >suffice and i will not report you.

The above is totally OT and has nothing to do wuth thr thread, merely a personal attack on anohter poster.

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stevecpfc at 03:25 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through >them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

Your posts are OT and have nothing to do with the thread.

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stevecpfc at 04:01 AM JST - 15th February " i am far from racist"

stevecpfc at 01:37 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, 2my issue isn`t about whaling" really? Every one of your >posts is pro Japan whilst you often claim you are not.

stevecpfc at 03:25 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through >them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

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OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through >them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

If the Whalers were Australians and the Japanese were eco-terrorists, then who do you think I would be supporting? Is your personal racist agenda of such magnitude that common sense of this degree is incomprehensible to you? Now please stop addressing me as I have no interest in debating anything with overt racists.

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OssanAmerica, Everyone of your posts is pro Japan. I have looked through them everyone, without ever criticising Japan, and that is a fact.

The Japanese shouldn`t be messing with these "instruments" that could endager SS and their own lives, as is shown in ther incompetent use of "water pistols".

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stevecpfc at 01:37 AM JST - 15th February OssanAmerica, 2my issue isn`t about whaling" really? Every one of your >posts is pro Japan whilst you often claim you are not.

No, every one of my posts is anti-eco terrorism. What the Whalers aren't doing anything illegal whether you like it or not. Sea Shepherd is. If the Whalers were Ethopians I 'd be supporting them too. Has NOTHING to do with being pro-Japan. That you see this argument as Pro or Anti "Japan" instead of Pro or Anti "Whaling" exposes YOUR racist agenda.

Japanese attacked Sea Shepherd with something which affected them. There >is no doubt in that

Sure there is. As far as I know those are fire extinguishers being tested in the video and Watson is lying as he always does.

Now whalers, if the whalers showed a video of SS firing something >towards them , then you would dismiis it?

Why should I dismiss it. The whalers have videos of SS firing all sorts of stiff at them. http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea.htm

Don`t bother answering as your answer is obvious already.

Then don't bother posting addressing me.

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OssanAmerica, 2my issue isn`t about whaling" really? Every one of your posts is pro Japan whilst you often claim you are not.

Japanese attacked Sea Shepherd with something which affected them. There is no doubt in that. Now whalers, if the whalers showed a video of SS firing something towards them , then you would dismiis it?

Don`t bother answering as your answer is obvious already.

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Ossan's argument (as I understand it) was that some anti-whalers are >racist, therefore I, being anti-racist, should not be anti-whaling.

Almost there but not quite Cleo. As NationalistRE astutely and accurately pointed out, this whole whaling issue, especially as "directed" by SS, polarizes the whaling and anti-whaling camps such that folks such as yourself, anti-whaling but anti-racist end up arguing soleley in the camp harboring the racists. That may certainly not be your intent, but by posting exclusively against the pro-whalers while ignoring the obvious racist rantings of other anti-whalers promotes that which you do not condone.

I think he needs to come up with something better, too.

I'm not the one who brought up vegatarianism or hitler.

Ossan - I came across that 'vegetariansareevil' page a while ago, and >assumed it was a spoof. Surely you're not suggesting it's supposed to >be serious? If it is the people writing it have some serious problems.

I have no idea one way or the other. Can you prove that it's a spoof? I have trouble prroving most USFO sites spoofs.

If Animal Planet put a filiming team on a Whaler ship that would be fair. I totally agree. I wonder why the wailers don't want them on board?

For the simply reason that the show is called "Whale Wars". Any footage taken on the whalers ships would be used to fuel the "war". Otherwise, they'd have no program.

No most pro-whalers don't make a penny or yen from whaling But you do claim that it's OK for the whalers to make a buck from >killing whales, even though it's known that many of the animals die >slowly and in excruciating pain.

Yes Whalers make a living from killing whales. Just as those who work in slaighterhouses make a living, well.."slaughtering". As to "slow and excruiciating pain" that's wording that evokes an emotional anmd sympathetic response for sure, but scientifically unconfirmable and entirely subjective in it's interpretation.

If you're perfectly happy eating meat without knowing or caring how that >particular animal lived and died, knowing perfectly well that almost all >the meat on sale in the supermarkets, restaurants etc., is factory >farmed - then yes, you do condone the torture of animals.

Sorry Cleo but I don't have the time to fall apart with an emotional breakdown everytime I want to chow down on a hamburger. As a hunter I actually agree with you, anyone who eats meat should learn all there is about that animal from birth to death. They should have to to kill it too and butcher it to truly know what they are eating, that it doesn't "grow" in celophabne wrapped packages.

Factory-farmed 'products' suffer more than their fair share of wanton >and gratuitous torture well before they get anywhere near the >slaughterhouse.

I agree they suffer. But "torture" suggests deliberate. I disagree with using that term. And yes, the MODs probably going to nuke all this.

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I do believe it's possible to be anti-whaling and anti-Sea Shepherd. There's certainly been a change in opinion on the SS organization recently, despite lies that you may read on here.

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GP activists have been arrested & charged, GP has been sued, still to this date has a SSCS member been charged, nor sued for their a actions. Japan currently has 2 GP activists in custody, yet SSCS crew are able to travel without fear of arrest, there are NO international arrest warrents for SSCS members. Aus & NZ officials still wish to interview the Captain of the SM2, is be going to show for these interviews? Or just like with 'Animal Planet' are they going to refuse? The Japanese whalers are using military grade weapons against civillians, the J-whalers are breaking every rule of the sea, & hav e been documented back as far as 1999 doing so, long before SSCS entered Antarctic waters, back when they called GP an 'eco-terrorist' group, now they have a new group to complain about, yet are still propagating the very same propaganda, word for word! The world no longer believes it, the worlds media is reporting on J-whalers using pepper spray & coming off second best, the world gets to see 'Whale Wars' & knows the J-whalers have a chance to put their side across, yet refuse & choose to hide their actions from an independant group reporting on! Why would they do this unless they had something to hide, & that they did not want the test of the world to see?

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SSCS has saved hundreds of whales each year it has gone to Antarctica, j-whalers have never reached their quota while SSCS have been there. Animal Planet want, & have tried putting film crews onboard J-whaling vessel to report their side, the ICR has refused each time because it has something to hide, & does not want the world to see the truth.

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michaelqtodd at 10:33 PM JST - 14th February @OssanAmerica We have tolerated your one eyed opinions on here for some >time. Although on other threads your opinions are reasonable you cannot >seem to see anything good about Sea Shepherd and that is your >prerogative.

michealtodd I think you should get off your "We" high horse because the vast majority of anti-whalers also happen to be normal responsible people who don't condone criminal acts of violence. And you're right, I see NOTHING good about SS in terms of actually saving any whales, or changing Japanese opinon about whaling, or moving towards any kind of a solution in any which way. SS' actions have only hardened the whalers' position. SS are just an action show that is causing damage to the anti-whaling movement. I have stated from the begining that my issue isn't about whaling, it's about eco-terrorism as defined by the FBI. Notice how you never see me complaining about Greenpeace, even if they are guilty of minor non-violent crimes carriedc out to achieve their goals? None of this would be happening if SS weren't chasing the whalers, yes? None of this would happen if the IWC loophole were closed, yes? But of course then there'd be no SS action show or Hollywood contribution parties.

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What does Hitler being a vegetarian have to do with the Sea Sheppard? Hitler =vegetarian; Hitler=evil; therefore vegetarian=evil? Seriously, you have to come up with something a lot better than that.

Ossan's argument (as I understand it) was that some anti-whalers are racist, therefore I, being anti-racist, should not be anti-whaling.

I think he needs to come up with something better, too.

Ossan - I came across that 'vegetariansareevil' page a while ago, and assumed it was a spoof. Surely you're not suggesting it's supposed to be serious? If it is the people writing it have some serious problems.

If Animal Planet put a filiming team on a Whaler ship that would be fair.

I totally agree. I wonder why the wailers don't want them on board?

No most pro-whalers don't make a penny or yen from whaling

But you do claim that it's OK for the whalers to make a buck from killing whales, even though it's known that many of the animals die slowly and in excruciating pain.

Moderator: Readers, vegetarianism is irrelevant to this discussion.

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@OssanAmerica We have tolerated your one eyed opinions on here for some time. Although on other threads your opinions are reasonable you cannot seem to see anything good about Sea Shepherd and that is your prerogative. We tolerated your posts when the 2 vessels were rammed by the Japanese even and you blamed Sea Shepherd despite overwhelming evidence in their favour on both occassions.

This time you really need to admit that the whalers and the politicians backing them need to apologise and back down.

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an apology. Compliance would be sufficent. Indeed it would. Wanna bet it won't be forthcoming?

It most certainly won't be forthcomming if the entire "pepper-stray" allegation is another WAtson lie, will it?

The latest wail has been up for a while, prior to this allegation about >giant cans of pepper spray The latest icr wail is dated 13th February; the SS 'whalers shot >themselves in the face with pepper spray' report is dated 12th.

You're right I stand corrected. Nevertheless there appears to be no >connection between the two.

If the footage shows SS is the one doing all the instigating, you'd >think the wailers would welcome it. It would help put their side of the >story much more effectively than playing ghostbusters and ramming tiny >plastic boats does.

Have you ever seen it? It's a very biased show since it's filmed from the SS ship and records only the thoughts and commebnts of SS members. If Animal Planet put a filiming team on a Whaler ship that would be fair.

Maybe I should straddle the fence then.....nosh on a hamburger because >Hitler was a vegetarian.....nope, that doesn't work. Most mass murderers >are not vegetarian,

True most are not but.. Adolph Hitler, Charles Manson, Pol Pot were vegetarians. http://www.vegetariansareevil.com/killers.html

and most anti-whalers are not vicious racists.

True most are not but.. hobbsy

All >pro-whalers, on the other hand, seem to be quite comfortable with >the argument that it's OK to torture dumb animals for the sake of a >quick buck,

No most pro-whalers don't make a penny or yen from whaling, and most pro-whalers (or non-vegetarians for that matter) don't condone the "torture" of animals, dumb or otherwise. You've just redifined "tortune" to include just abouit any killing of any animal.

just as long as there are lots left

Yes, I agree that most pro-whalers advocate sustainable whaling as I have yet to meet any who advocated hunting them to extermination.

(see, I don't adhere to the 'we >shouldn't hurt them because they're >intelligent' argument or the 'but they're not endangered' argument. >Those arguments taken to their logical conclusion would put a large part >of the human race at risk.)

Bravo to you for at least not adhereing to the "whales are people" argument. And naturally you would not support the "not-endangered" argument since your anti-whaling position is based on a vegan kill-no-animals-at-all agenda therefore sustainability of hunting or conservation issues would not apply.

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Maybe the J-whalers should read the operating instructions before using military grade weapons???

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/19-15/CH9.htm

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kwatt, this 'new' video was posted yesterday & does not show the Ghostbusters, the still shots also do not show anything new, they just show a RIV operating beside the SM2, in which case it shows what the Ghostbusters were aiming at, & how they shot themselves in the face with pepper spray, BAHAHAHAHAHAHA, sorry but it makes me laugh every time I see or talk about it...

Got to love how they post it as a RIV is attacking vessels of over 1,000tons in the case of the SM2, & over 5,000ton & probably closer to 10ton for the NM!!!

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So the Japanese are using pepper spray, military sound devices and water canons.

What is next? Bullets? Torpedoes? Whale meat?

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The 'new' Japanese video and photos provide no new information. No mention of what Ghostbusters thought they were doing, just more bleating about the 'potentially blinding' 'acid chemical' butter bombs.

All SS has to do now is keep on the factory ship's tail to stop them killing and loading whales. I think the wailers are probably right that all the 'action' now is for the cameras.

Time to go home, wailers.

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Japan provides new video and photo:

http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea.htm

http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea-img.htm

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I doubt they were testing anything. But I also doubt they were using pepper spray. Whatever they were firing, it doesn't matter what they were aiming at because they obviously aren't very skilled at firing weapons.

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You can also see the wake from the SSCS vessel they were aiming at! & maybe they were just rubbing their eyes after because they were crying because they miss home so much!!!

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You can hear their warnings in the background, but maybe they were just testing that at the same time huh taj?

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I thought that Japan govt does not allow J-whalers to spray capsicum, hot peppers,,, to SS. What they can do is to use mainly water cannon, LRAD in case, and warning grenade in last minute. I don't think 3 whalers were hurt by own hot pepper spray and it does not look like they were in trouble with hot pepper. I think they tried to do something else. Japan does not explain about it because it was nothing.

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taj...good point. Hadn't thought of that. True, all we have is Paul Watson's word, for what it's worth...and a betting person would know not to put money on that!!!

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LOL...just saw the video and although it didn't look like anyone was hurt by whatever they shot and had sprayed back into their faces (trust me, if it was pepper spray they wouldn't just be standing there like that) looked really friggin funny! What were they trying to do???? And yes, they were firing into the water...or else they aren't quite as practiced at taking aim and firing shots at others as are the members of the SS. They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn! Not sure what they were playing at but they did look ridiculous.

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Oh, and that few seconds of film could have been the 12th February or it could have been the 24th of January. 2007. All we have is Watson's word.

And that is more than adequate for some people. Less than adequate to others.

I'm going to keep an open mind for now. Maybe it was a new "weapon" test on the 12th or maybe it's nothing of the sort.

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They were aiming down at the water, right? Not across. There were two blasts. Fire extinguishing equipment? Regular testing? Some new fangled capiscum blaster? Could be anything. Did not appear to be fired at anyone. Just down into the sea.

That's what I saw.

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just don't see any evidence to make me believe there was pepper spray involved or that those shots were being blasted at a target.... some people will see what they want to see.

What do you see, taj? People testing their garden sprays for getting the greenfly off the roses when they get back home? People playing gosutobasuta-gokko in their off-duty time?

We're assuming that it's pepper spray, but it could be something else. Maybe they scraped the butter off the deck and were trying to return it to SS. The whalers themselves aren't coming forward with any explanations of what they were doing.

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Sorry, I've watched the little video from Sea Shepherd and just don't see any evidence to make me believe there was pepper spray involved or that those shots were being blasted at a target.

It's too bad for SS that Watson has such a reputation for making stuff up. It's also very apparent that some people will see what they want to see.

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I, unlike the J-gov or whalers, am happy to admit when I am wrong. Thank you for pointing out that Iceland is still a member, as I thought they had withdrawn...

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Sorry Peachy871, you are correct, I retract the previous comment, but it also does talk of strict controls on where & how the whales are caught...

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Psst, Shackle..... it was the whalers who got what was coming to them... a home goal..... Yes, let's hope they continue in the same vein.

Though personally I'd be happy if they'd stop the confrontations, stop spraying themselves, stop wailing and just go home.

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the sea shepard group are a bunch of pussies! Im glad the Japanese kicked their nosy asses! They should mind their own business! Im eagerly awaiting more confrontations! Kick some ass NIPPON!

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skipbeat... bang on. SS's intentions seem to me to be less about saving whales than about getting to be on TV. Japan needs to face up to the flimsiness of its "research" and if truly researching in the name of science, do so non-lethally. It can indeed be done.

SS is really doing nothing to truly save the whales longterm in this particular case. They might save a whale or two now and again, but it is at the cost of lots more whales lives because the more they threaten the whaling mission, the more resolved the Japanese gov't becomes to protect it. This ensures that whaling will continue for many, many years to come. Ticking off a bunch of sailors on ships, causing them to portray themselves as victims, is not going to stop the whaling; it's going to strengthen it. It won't be stopped unless it can be stopped by those in control. The people that SS clearly are not targeting because it doesn't make for exciting TV to educate the public or have meetings to hammer out new agreements or create strict policies on research standards.

And as a side-note...hobbsy70: isn't Iceland a member of the IWC?

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the use of blatent lies,

That's funny.

No, it was the Ghostbusters spraying into the wind that was funny.

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the use of blatent lies,

That's funny.

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The Sea Shepherd, a U.S.-based activist group and the Japanese whalers are both immature. There is a better way to resolve this matter than on the open sea.

I would like to see the Sea Shepherd, a U.S.-based activist group go after the Somali pirates.

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OssanAmerica, I am glad you bought up the point;"Iceland makes up in their exports to Japan."

I should bring it to your attention that CITIES bans this very same act;

"Furthermore, under Japan’s Decree of Import Trade Control, all imports from non-IWC member nations are prohibited."

Yet another treaty & agreement that Japan seems quite happy to break! Just as it is happy to lie to the world about its whalers getting injured by SSCS actions, when in reality it was their own actions which bought about any injuries! Just as the fishing Minister is enraged by these actions, so to is the world with Japan continued whaling in a designated whale sanctuary, & the use of blatent lies, & corruption of a world organisation to do so. Racism has nothing to do with it...

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an apology. Compliance would be sufficent.

Indeed it would. Wanna bet it won't be forthcoming?

The latest wail has been up for a while, prior to this allegation about giant cans of pepper spray

The latest icr wail is dated 13th February; the SS 'whalers shot themselves in the face with pepper spray' report is dated 12th.

a great many folks here in the United States have been voicing their dissapproval of the Animal Planet's "whale Wars" show as it instigates violence for the sake of ratings

If the footage shows SS is the one doing all the instigating, you'd think the wailers would welcome it. It would help put their side of the story much more effectively than playing ghostbusters and ramming tiny plastic boats does.

you are amongst some vicious racists on your side of the fence. And I know how much you abhor them.

Maybe I should straddle the fence then.....nosh on a hamburger because Hitler was a vegetarian.....nope, that doesn't work. Most mass murderers are not vegetarian, and most anti-whalers are not vicious racists. All pro-whalers, on the other hand, seem to be quite comfortable with the argument that it's OK to torture dumb animals for the sake of a quick buck, just as long as there are lots left (see, I don't adhere to the 'we shouldn't hurt them because they're intelligent' argument or the 'but they're not endangered' argument. Those arguments taken to their logical conclusion would put a large part of the human race at risk.)

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lol Yes Ossan, the wailers are going to say 'Yes we sprayed our own >faces with some nasty stuff and blamed it on the eco-terriers'. Good >luck with that.

No they don't have to say anything of the sort, after all your hero Paul has asked for an apology. Compliance would be sufficent.

A quick look at the icr page this morning reveals that their latest wail >is that Animal Planet is taking footage for Whale Wars. You'd think >they'd welcome extensive footage of how it's the terriers doing all the ?>harassing and the perfectly legal wailers just trying to get on with >their perfectly legal scientific research activities. Maybe they're >afraid that's not what the footage will show. I wonder if the camera >crew in the heli got a good shot of the Ghostbusters. I hope so.

The latest wail has been up for a while, prior to this allegation about giant cans of pepper spray. Besides a great many folks here in the United States have been voicing their dissapproval of the Animal Planet's "whale Wars" show as it instigates violence for the sake of ratings and viewing popularity for s few years now. Check out the Animal Plant forum on Whale Wars.

They also repeat (ad nauseum) their strong condemnation of >the 'dangerous and violent actions carried out in contempt of the >International Whaling Commission consensus criticism and demand for self->restraint' yet somehow fail to mention the repeated resolutions of the >IWC asking Japan to stop its unwanted, unnecessary and ineffective (in >terms of research) research programmes. Maybe it's the mercury poisoning >that induces selective memory loss.

And well they should. So what? I've said a billion times before, go close the loophole. Does anyone actually think SS is saving whales? Whatever whales are not taken because of SS's acts of eco-terrorism, Iceland makes up in their exports to Japan. I do admire you tenacity and adherence to your personal principles as much as I may disagree vehemently, but I trust you do realize that you are amongst some vicious racists on your side of the fence. And I know how much you abhor them. Probably for the same reason I do.

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would like to raise loosely related anti-Japanese issues.

@NationalisticRE What other issues are you talking about? Dolphin slaughtering? All of us on here love Japan. Why else would we be on this website? Paul Watson and Sea Shepherd never criticize Japan. They just stop whaling and other stuff

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"Japan’s Fisheries Minister Hirotaka Akamatsu lashed out at the activists on Friday, telling reporters: “I am full of rage. I could not believe they did such a thing.”

LMFAO! Did a Japanese politician really say "I am full of rage"?.

He must have meant, "I am full of apathy, cigarette smoke, construction industry kickbacks, free beer from the taxi company, xenophobia, and tax evasion."

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act ILLEGALLY, & deliberately ram other vessels & use other such dirty tactics

I thought that you supported the Sea Shepherd? I guess not.

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Animal Planet has approach the J-whalers & offered to put a team of independant photographers/filmers on the J-boats. Yet the ICR refused! I guess if you know you are going to act ILLEGALLY, & deliberately ram other vessels & use other such dirty tactics they do not want an independant arbitrator around to film you doing these things wrong...

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although the ICR has not made any statement to confirm or deny SS' claim, everyone jumps on the bandwagon assuming that SS claim is the truth. I will withold judgement until a response from the whalers side is given

lol Yes Ossan, the wailers are going to say 'Yes we sprayed our own faces with some nasty stuff and blamed it on the eco-terriers'. Good luck with that.

A quick look at the icr page this morning reveals that their latest wail is that Animal Planet is taking footage for Whale Wars. You'd think they'd welcome extensive footage of how it's the terriers doing all the harassing and the perfectly legal wailers just trying to get on with their perfectly legal scientific research activities. Maybe they're afraid that's not what the footage will show. I wonder if the camera crew in the heli got a good shot of the Ghostbusters. I hope so.

They also repeat (ad nauseum) their strong condemnation of the 'dangerous and violent actions carried out in contempt of the International Whaling Commission consensus criticism and demand for self-restraint' yet somehow fail to mention the repeated resolutions of the IWC asking Japan to stop its unwanted, unnecessary and ineffective (in terms of research) research programmes. Maybe it's the mercury poisoning that induces selective memory loss.

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One active poster here made the assumption, & stated publicly; I was on drugs! Which I am not. He also has NO maritime experience, but wishes to claim an abundent knowledge of everything. yet his posts are based on his going out & killing of small animals with his BIG gun! I can also watch a video & see who is shooting pepper spray at themselves without any denial of the facts...

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

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The pepper spray gaffe video combined with this JT thread unequivocally >illustrates this mindset. Incidents such as this serves as a "twofer" >for people with both anti-whaling sentiment and anti-Japanese >prejudices, it also serves as a legitimate conduit for J-bashing by >those who do not give a toss about whaling but would like to raise >loosely related anti-Japanese issues.

You are absolutely correct. One very active poster in the whale threads actualy called me a "Japanese-American" (which I'm not but my kids are)and started to talk about WWII. There's no doubt that there is anti-whaling, there's racism, then there's the combination.

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Interesting how this situation doesn't get uglier. Just more funny. Except for the whales that get hurt...

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Japanese whalers, and their appeasers, are now officially, laughing >stocks of the world.

Only by those who are stupid enough to believe anything SS says without any verification.

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Japanese whalers, and their appeasers, are now officially, laughing stocks of the world.

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NationalistRE very well said. The masses are happy to beleive that it is about whales. How can you teach them that it is not about whales? Sometimes, you have to spell it out clearly like you did about the actual mission of the Greenpeace was far from peace.

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No one ever accused the Japanese fishermen or the fisheries department of being too smart. Spray into the wind is a no-brainer...it comes back...On another note, these environmentalists protect the whales, are against the slaughter of beef, then complain about the world food shortages, what the heck do they want us to eat...sand???

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NationalisticRE, if it wasnt for people with asimilar mindset to yourself, then Japanese wouldnt have to have earten whale meat as a substitute for Soy beans

I do not understand where you are getting at. If you'd know me better, people with similar mindset to myself albet, people who knew the taste of independent Japan (which I do not) would choose death by either disembowling themselves or go down fighting in resistance rather than endure American occupation being dictated what we would eat and don't. Today's Japanese international commercial whaling is controlled by the children of shikata ga nai collaborators who sheepishly obeyed and cheered their American masters who handed out packets of dried trim milk and of course: WHALE MEAT.

Also, there's no way I can support anti-whaling people like you hurl insult at anti-whaling Japanese such as myself. It is clear from your comments that you are anti-Japanese in general, along people with asimilar mindset to yourself who would rather see an end to Japanese whaling solely through humiliation of the Japanese people through their capitulation to international anti-whaling pressure while giving no appreciation of any act of national introspection. The pepper spray gaffe video combined with this JT thread unequivocally illustrates this mindset. Incidents such as this serves as a "twofer" for people with both anti-whaling sentiment and anti-Japanese prejudices, it also serves as a legitimate conduit for J-bashing by those who do not give a toss about whaling but would like to raise loosely related anti-Japanese issues.

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What is quite remarkable is that SS, an organization known to lie consistenly (unless you really believe Watson was shot)comes out and makes this claim, and although the ICR has not made any statement to confirm or deny SS' claim, everyone jumps on the bandwagon assuming that SS claim is the truth. I will withold judgement until a response from the whalers side is given. The short video raises more questions than it answers.Ask yourselves this-

When was the last time anyone use capsicum? When is the last time you've seen capsicum fired from "ghostbusters" backpack cannisters? Anyone who has ever handled capsicum knows you don't use it in windy conditions for the obvious reasons. Any ship that is underway is "too windy" to use capsicum other than inside the superstructure. The Whaling crew aren't authorized to use capsicum, only JCG officers are and they dress in typical SWAT gear for engagements. Why are the two crewmen firing into the ocean? You can clearly see that there's nobody there. One crewman rubs his goggles, the other doesn't. One guy just walks away. Doesn't look like 3 men injured. In fact doesn't look like ANYONE got capsicum in their eyes.

For these reasons I find the short video, available only from the SS site to be questionable in supporting their claim. Looks like 2 guys testing fire fighting equipment to me.

walksaway.

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Just heard that the pepper spraying video has been shown on NZ TV. The whole country is laughing at the Japanese whalers

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omfg this is getting so boring already.

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"Japan’s Fisheries Minister Hirotaka Akamatsu lashed out at the activists on Friday, telling reporters: “I am full of rage. I could not believe they did such a thing.”

Sir, it's certainly not RAGE you are full of, but then you are a politician and expected to spout off lies to deceive and conceal the truth about anything and everything!

You are truly holding up the image of Japanese politicians and should be proud of yourself. You're also making the rest of the world LAUGH thier FAO!

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smithinjapan: They really, literally are just pi$$ing in the wind!

Wow that's really funny for a five year old.

Exactly as funny as when ramming&co got rammed. Ecstatic!

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"Japan’s Fisheries Minister Hirotaka Akamatsu lashed out at the activists on Friday, telling reporters: “I am full of rage. I could not believe they did such a thing.”

He should work to try to get the JCG out there with the research fleet to get a little target practice in.

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@hobbys, Glenn Inwood is a long time PR guy - much disliked in his native land and recently caught impersonating a NZ government official in Oz. His profession is PR - that means that he lies for a living. Stunning as his audience are mostly GenXers who for the most part are immune to PR being the generation most exposed to it as the art grew.

Hilarious that they sprayed themselves and then tried to shift blame... care to think again on the who rammed who debate? One side: known liars, the other side boat-rammed eco-warriors.

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Just watched the videos again! Bloody hiliarious to see the Japanese side scramble to defend them spraying themselves.

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Sorry HedaMadness I forgot to include you in afore mentioned list, but I am also anxiously awaiting your reply to this article...

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"Japan’s Fisheries Minister Hirotaka Akamatsu lashed out at the activists on Friday, telling reporters: “I am full of rage. I could not believe they did such a thing.”

You've GOT to be pretty full of rage when you screw your self over and spray yourself with pepper for the world to see. The problem is that it's misdirected. Please, please, put this on America's funniest Home Videos or something.

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"Glenn Inwood, spokesman for Japan’s Institute of Cetacean Research, said the injuries were not serious, but he cautioned that butyric acid can cause temporary blindness."

Hey Glenn, it is not rotten butter causing the temporary blindness, it is your own tear gas or pepper spray!!! But you already knew this, guess is time for the Japanese public to find out...

"Japan’s Fisheries Minister Hirotaka Akamatsu lashed out at the activists on Friday, telling reporters: “I am full of rage. I could not believe they did such a thing.”

Hey Minister stop disseminating blatent lies, the Japanese people may believe them for now, but the truth ALWAYS come out, & when it does it will be your head on the chopping block, or should I say you at the wrong end of an exploding harpoon!!!

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Just went through heaps of Japanese AND 'foreign' (ie. non-Japanese) webtsites on this and it's clear that they shot themselves with the pepper spray. Pretty hilarious to watch to... the shoot their wad and then start scratching their eyes less than a second later when the mist blows in their faces. They really, literally are just pi$$ing in the wind!

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& the final nail in the coffin as reported in this story;

"Whale meat not used for study is sold for consumption in Japan"

What happened to the argument of "scientific research", ohhh that is right it is just another lie put out by Japan, to justify these senseless hunts that even the IWC has called on Japan to end...

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architrex: " i bet none of you have ever looked at the videos on the Japanese site..."

Ummm... are you joking? In short, the LAST media source you can trust for claims by Japanese whalers about anti-whalers is.... (drumroll)... the JAPANESE MEDIA!

I know, I know... that's a tough one, but good luck with it when you see the dozens of non-Japanese sites pointing out the facts.

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHA, thanks guys for saying it all for me, Japan uses hunting whales as propaganda within Japan, yet the world condems it. Time for Japan to pull out of Antarctica, or Moleier, OssanAmerica, or Bushlover to post; how this was once again the fault of SSCS, & how SSCS was actually attacking the whalers! Maybe the J-gov/Fishing Minister, could publicly apolagise for their lies, but then again I guess that would be like admitting they deliberately rammed & sank another vessel, endangering the lives of the crew onboard, & we all know the Japanese will never do that unless they can try to claim somebody 'attacked' them!

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CLASSIC!!! Who was it who mentioned ghost busters above? I can just hear it playing in the background as these guys blow pepper spray into the wind then try to figure out how they're going to spin it.

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Oh my god... all you people see one video and assume its something that would benefit your cause. i bet none of you have ever looked at the videos on the Japanese site...I have a hard time believing that that video shows a Japanese 'whaler' (more like employee) shooting pepper spray in his face.. and you cannot deny that the sea 'shepherds' are throwing 'butter bombs' that have turned rancid creating butyric acid at the Japanese whalers. Whether or not you agree with the Japanese whaling operation, if you deny that the 'sea shepherds' are terrorists, your insane....really people, open your eyes.

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Awesome display of the triumph of Japanese thinking over common sense.

Moving ship + wind + spray gun + no face protection = ULTIMATE FAIL.

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hahahahahaha funny video wasabi ghostbusters

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NationalistRE, you have hit the nail on the head. Stop these Japanese eating whale meat. Let them eat Spam.

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NationalisticRE, if it wasnt for people with asimilar mindset to yourself, then Japanese wouldnt have to have earten whale meat as a substitute for Soy beans. Also whaling was only carried out in some coastal areas, it was never astaple since time immemorial as you alleged.

I said the soy beans were part of the Japanese since time immemorial, not whaling and what do you mean by people with asimilar mindset to [yourself] ?

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NationalisticRE, if it wasnt for people with asimilar mindset to yourself, then Japanese wouldnt have to have earten whale meat as a substitute for Soy beans. Also whaling was only carried out in some coastal areas, it was never astaple since time immemorial as you alleged.

The whalers should go home and stop attemting to kill those who oppose them. people like myself, do not like payin g taxes for the whalers to do this harvest and invest in idiotic chemical weapons they are too thick to operate.

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To be fair though, I do not support commercial fishing outside of Japan because it's not the traditional form that caters for for the prestigious niche market of the rich. Japanese international whaling is the result of the post-war domestic shortage of soy beans which was the staple for protein since time immemorial and whale meat was used as substitute by the Allied Occupational Authorities. Today's whale meat market serves nostalgic baby boomers who grew fond of their childhood cuisine. I find such culinary affixiations nurtured by poverty and American subjugation to be disgusting just much as how cans of spam meat came to be a part of the Korean household by similar historical circumstances. I wish more Japanese feel the way as I do so that we can all stop whaling and see no more video footage of rediculous bouts between idiots like the one linked above. But I attempted to argue that Japan should be able to stand up by itself for what it believes in, but nope, it this country just acquieses to the will of contrary opinion expressed by those who do stand up for themselves.

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wawawasuremono wrote: But we are talking about Japan, a country that pays terrorist ransoms when their citizens get kidnapped.

Yep, because of acts like that, government bravado attempts like the ones NationalRE suggests are tall orders. But it would be realistic and appropriate if the government regulates the whaling crews to be proficient in the use of incapacitating arms and pirate deterrance.

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I truly hope neither side does anything stupid which results in deaths - but it appears both sides here are not being led by anyone of intelligence, to put it nicely!

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I can kind of see the point you are trying to make, NationalistRE. However, 1. - would the Japanese Government risk the international condemnation for ordering a sabotage on a Greenpeace or Sea Shepherd ship? 2. Would the Japanese government's spies/agents abroad be capable of such an act? I know they were more than capable of international sabotage 60 years ago...but I doubt their foreign agents would have the ability to execute successful sabotage today.

Eco-terrorists like the SS are like the easiest of challenge for Japan in contrast to real terrorists and armed hostile neighbours who many countries deal on a daily basis. If Japan can't even quickly deal with these 'wanna be freedom fighters', how could this nation hope to survive without US protection? The government has so far left these whalers who wawawasuremono aptly wraps up as 'goons that can't tell wind direction' to fend for themselves on the high seas.

This is a good occasion for Japan to show that it is not afraid to take unilateral action if need be to secure the interests of its own citizens overseas. There is no reason why Japan should fear more than the French or any other country that utilises its intelligence to secure their own. If Japan cannot deal with Paul Watson, it will have little luck when facing Kim Jong Il. These bumbling whalers who can barely defend themselves calls for immediate response!

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NationalisticRE, where are Japan securing the intertsts of its citizens overseas? If anything they will subjected to harrassment due to the government sanctioned whaling and chemical attacks on protesters.

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Betting, The government sponsors their whaling and their purchase of noxious spray equipments.Thus saying they have a government is justified and correct.

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"...the whalers are stupid and their government is just as stupid?".

Didn't know the whalers were a country. Saying the whalers have a government is equally as silly.

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. I say if Japan had a backbone (obviously lacking one as implied by their reliance on the US for defense and dictating foreign policy) to go with their arrogance, MV Steve Irwin would be at the bottom of the Port of Brisbane.

I can kind of see the point you are trying to make, NationalistRE. However, 1. - would the Japanese Government risk the international condemnation for ordering a sabotage on a Greenpeace or Sea Shepherd ship? 2. Would the Japanese government's spies/agents abroad be capable of such an act? I know they were more than capable of international sabotage 60 years ago...but I doubt their foreign agents would have the ability to execute successful sabotage today.

Look, I don't think it will come down to state-sanctioned sinking/sabotage this - at least I hope not.

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If Japan had a backbone, they would do 2 things:

Withdraw from the IWC Send reprisal raids against the SS fleet with chemicals just as obnoxious if not more.

But we are talking about Japan, a country that pays terrorist ransoms when their citizens get kidnapped, and the government carpet bags to a bunch of goons that can't tell wind direction.

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If Japan had a backbone, they would do 2 things:

Withdraw from the IWC Send reprisal raids against the SS fleet with chemicals just as obnoxious if not more.

But we are talking about Japan, a country that pays terrorist ransoms when their citizens get kidnapped.

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NationalistRE, Oh, so you believe that demonstrators should be murdered by state sanctioned killers. How quaint.

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NationalistRE, If Japan sunk the boats, you can be sure they know what would the repurcussions would be. Whaling would end and they know it.

If the Japanese were smart as whale as having a backbone, they will hire ex-Mossad and the DGSE agents to do the job. If need be, they will hire Iceland registered ships and crews to do the whaling.

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NationalistRE, If Japan sunk the boats, you can be sure they know what would the repurcussions would be. Whaling would end and they know it.

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taj watch the videos kwatt has posted. Even the preschool kids when playing police act with more dignity than the fully grown seashepherds.

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Doesn't this video imply that the only reason SS isn't dead already is because the whalers are stupid and their government is just as stupid? I mean the French used their spies to blow up Greenpeace ships that do no more than turn up to to nulear weapons test sites to protest peacefully. I say if Japan had a backbone (obviously lacking one as implied by their reliance on the US for defense and dictating foreign policy) to go with their arrogance, Andy Gil would be at the bottom of the Port of Brisbane.

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Where did they get those industrial strength pepper spray dispensers. I want one!

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"what was that? What was that?" Is that all the video there is?

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bloody idiots! funny how OZ needs some maverick yank to come and fight their battles for them. each side claiming they have the right to do what theyre doing but last i heard, UN laws supersede laws of any country.

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Best Supporting role goes to the Japanese government, in playing, The Victim.

But in Japan the footage of the failed pepper spray attack will never be shown. Instead we will get an edited caption is Sea Sheppard bottles being thrown and Japanese whalers wincing in pain.

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Best Supporting role goes to the Japanese government, in playing, The Victim.

lol guest! But that actor has years of experience here - this is merely a reprise of their famous victim role!

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http://www.seashepherd.org/matilda/video.html

This little vignette typifies life in Japan. Comic Gold Medal

Vignette (literature), short, impressionistic scenes that focus on one moment or give a particular insight into a character, idea, or setting

Best Supporting role goes to the Japanese government, in playing, The Victim.

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Yea way to go Sea Shepherd has never lied. Duh!

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I'd love to know - are the crew of ships permitted to carry pepper spray?

Are they pepper guns? Why whalers were shooting at water? Seemingly SS members didnt know what they were in video.

"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic - make it up on the spot" - Paul Watson

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What's with deleting all the posts ?? Not you again....

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Again more lies from the whalers and proof the camera dosent lie, just like every other lie by the whalers that has been exposed on film by sea shepherd,

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Next there will be tazers.

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I'd love to know - are the crew of ships permitted to carry pepper spray?

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That was indeed funny. Doesn't matter what nationality someone is, but spraying pepper spray into your own eyes really does deserve to be laughed at.

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japan should just use real guns against the terrorists.

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Have not heard anything from those 3 Japanese politicians who were so vocal about the "injuries" yesterday

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I laugh at the whalers bungled attempt to defend the indefensible.

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I bash whalers due to their practices, like this attempt to injure and not Japan/Japanese and i like most here reside in Japan.

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I'm not going to hold my breath while I wait for those who condemn the rancid butter and 'high-powered lasers' to get equally vocal and critical about pepper spray shot in large quantities from what looks like a heavy-duty ghostbusters kit.

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Priceless, too funny. Litterally taste of their own medicine!!

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That is funny. Theres reason Sea Shepherd throw their butter bombs wrapped in paper.

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Whale meat not used for study is sold for consumption in Japan

Which is all of it. No study has ever been published. Ever.

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I think Japan also likes video and audio.

http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea.htm

http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea-img.htm

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The video is really not clear at all. If any spray hit anyone's face you can't see it. The first sprayer does appear to rub his eyes after the second guy sprays, but while I see a cloud pass between the camera and him, I can't see any actually hit him. The second guy appears to be checking his equipment after the spray, not rubbing his eyes. And its hard to believe the third man in red would just leave the first guy to wander the deck if he had been hit.

Given the fact that the spray did not go far at all, I have to wonder if they were just checking their equipment and not suffering from the spray. Its really hard to tell.

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Take this! Oh no, the goggles do nothing!

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That video is pure comedy gold.

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Japanese hate video and audio. Looks like something from the Planet of the Apes. Too funny...

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Morons, if they were anything better, they would've solved the SS problem by now!

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Direct link to the video:

http://www.seashepherd.org/matilda/video.html

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Gees, would the Japanese lie in an attempt to gain sympathy from the rest of the world? Of course they bloody would! They've been doing the same thing on different issues for over half a century.

Thanks for the link funkymofo. It's going on my iPod as I type this.
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Youtube? I'd love to see that on the 7 PM NHK news but we all know that'll never happen! I watched it on the Sea Shepherd website and LMFAO while I played it again and again and again! Priceless! These whalers (or whoever the "ghostbusters" were have got to be complete morons! How can anybody be that stupid and blast THAT much pepper spray straight into the wind?

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Hahaha, epic fail.

http://www.seashepherd.org/matilda/

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hope someone posts the video on YouTube for the whole world to see along with this story.

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