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Asian territory disputes could trigger war: Panetta

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Well lets hope the situation does not go this far.

7 ( +7 / -1 )

Well Communists "You can draw when ready Pardner!"

We are waiting for you in Japan, all you have to do is attack us and we will respond in kind. The mob wants blood and it will either be Japanese or the current government. Japan will not give up an island to thugs. Oh when you attack Japan it is considered an attack on the USA. Also when you fail the mob will take you down and put you in prison. Perhaps you should consider taking out the mob. A saying from the Soviet Union, "purge him before he purges you". The world will forgive you for putting them down. After all they did when the democratic movement was put down.

-28 ( +13 / -42 )

None of the crap that is happening in the world is likely to end well. While this particular issue may be resolved, or fizzle out ,the larger issue remains. Impending economic doom for both Japan AND China. This non-issue is just keeping people's minds off the real problems.

There's a huge tidal wave of inflation coming to China, U.S. and Europe. This will destroy Japan's economy, as the Yen will shoot through the roof, killing their exports.

The whole reasons for the civil unrest in Tienamen square years ago was near double digit inflation. Similarly with the recent "Arab Spring," inflation and rising food prices.

People never riot when they're making money, they're happy with their jobs ,and food is cheap.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

The tension between China and Japan could lead to war, I agree with Panetta.

China has a legal obligation to protect a safety of Japanese Embassy and diplomats stationed in China based on the 1961 Vienna International Convention of Diplomatic Relations. They are as follows:

The treaty is an extensive document, containing 53 articles. Following is a basic overview of its key provisions.

Article 9. The host nation may at any time and for any reason declare a particular member of the diplomatic staff to be persona non grata. The sending state must recall this person within a reasonable period of time, or otherwise this person may lose their diplomatic immunity.

Article 22. The premises of a diplomatic mission, such as an embassy, are inviolate and must not be entered by the host country except by permission of the head of the mission. Furthermore, the host country must protect the mission from intrusion or damage. The host country must never search the premises, nor seize its documents or property. Article 30 extends this provision to the private residence of the diplomats.

Article 27. The host country must permit and protect free communication between the diplomats of the mission and their home country. A diplomatic bag must never be opened even on suspicion of abuse. A diplomatic courier must never be arrested or detained.

Article 29. Diplomats must not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. They are immune from civil or criminal prosecution, though the sending country may waive this right under Article 32. Under Article 34, they are exempt from most taxes, and under Article 36 they are exempt from most customs duties.

Article 31.1c Actions not covered by diplomatic immunity: professional activity outside diplomat's official functions.

Article 37. The family members of a diplomat that are living in the host country enjoy most of the same protections as the diplomats themselves

This is a summary of my views:

With a 130 million Chinese population with different tribes, culture, and China in economic ressession, Chinese government is now in political vacuum without a leader. They are not in control. It is very simple for Chinese government to do if they are willing to honor the accords listed above.

Chinese government needs to show a good faith in diplomacy to the rest of world.

All they have to do is to go on public TV calling all Chinese to be calm and rational in this political climate, but they have not doing anything at all. It seems to me that Chinese are actually playing a role behind these riots. The world audience is not kept ignorant in this ipod, internet technology. We see China is playing a big role in this provoking a war against Japan. I am personally requesting China to take a positive role in this conflict.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

After years of Japanese people bickering about the USA and their bases in Okinawa let's watch just how quickly they look over there shoulder and expect help when the fighting starts (including you Yuri). Japan is like a little barking dog at the door however when that door opens they will run inside and hide behind the much bigger dog (USA) who really isn't interested in the spate you created; expecting the US to defend it. Yuri you are delusional to think that your country is capable to do anything to defend itself against china........so please stop barking like a little mutt saying come on china invade us and we will win (only because the Americans will help us). If it was simply between china and japan; Japan would lose a hell of a lot more land mass than a few specks of dirt in the ocean. China might decide that while they are at it it wants that big one that you currently live on. How about as a nation you all hide behind Ishihara.....after all he was the one who prodded the hornets nest.

5 ( +15 / -11 )

let's watch just how quickly they look over there shoulder and expect help when the fighting starts

I do wonder about the guts of this manga and AKB generation.

A minority, however, would understand that it's better to die with honour than to hold your manhood cheap. Perhaps that would be instructional to others of a less honourable complexion.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

What pathetic, bickering, insecure beings we humans are. This kind of a dispute, running at the same time as Muslims going crazy about an obscure, insignificant film, fills me with a sadness and a sinking sense of dread that we just aren't really able to learn from our mistakes. That we are destined to be slaves to our follys and stew and fester in the swill of our foolishness. This is a pathetic dispute. Both of these coun tries need to be responsible about it, but they can't. We are so busy worrying about our differences that we fail to see how much the same we all are.

14 ( +13 / -0 )

I really like Obama, but I think he's just as bad, if not worse than George Dubya in picking cabinet members...

Really, Leon Panetta is the best we can do for Defense secretary...? With all the hundreds of thousands of people unemployed, we get a guy who was washed up nobody from the Clinton administration... Really this is the best we can do...?

And he's wearing jeans... The No.1 guy in guy in the military chain of command, who makes well over 300K a year is wearing jeans, like he's got a part-time job at wall-mart. REALLY...?

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

YuriOtaniSep. 17, 2012 - 07:02AM JST Well Communists "You can draw when ready Pardner!" We are waiting for you in Japan, all you have to do is attack us and we will respond in kind. The mob wants blood >and it will either be Japanese or the current government. Japan will not give up an island to thugs. Oh when you >attack Japan it is considered an attack on the USA. Also when you fail the mob will take you down and put you in >prison. Perhaps you should consider taking out the mob. A saying from the Soviet Union, "purge him before he >purges you". The world will forgive you for putting them down. After all they did when the democratic movement was >put down.

You know one of the reasons I back Japan on this issue is that they aren't babbling about starting a war like the mobs in China. Japan has been and continues to deal with China's ridicuous aggressive behavior in a calm rational mature way. So has hte Unied States as this article indicates. THere is no doubt that either country could and would respond to a Chinese military offensive in a quick professional and overwhelming manner. People who have loaded weapons don;t scream and yell like school children. I hope you get my point.

15 ( +15 / -3 )

From all of this will come that Taiwan will finally fall into the hands of China.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

globalwatcherSep. 17, 2012 - 07:14AM JST

This is a summary of my views:

With a 130 million Chinese population with different tribes, culture, and China in economic ressession, Chinese >government is now in political vacuum without a leader. They are not in control. It is very simple for Chinese >government to do if they are willing to honor the accords listed above.

The fear, shared by not just Japan and the United States, but every democratic country from Asia to Europe is the possibility that the Hawk PLA Generals may have taken control. A scenario that every country knows from history and considers a threat to global peace.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The previous president of taiwan insist that the islands in contention are Japanese islands. He knew that if China take controls of these islands, Taiwan is a goner.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

There needs to be an immediate conference at minister level between Japan, Korea, China and America. Each country needs to reduce the current tensions.

Since it's all about gas and oil, that should be shared by Japan, China and Korea.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Yuritani... your comment reflects everything that is wrong about Japan and the attitudes of similar nationalists.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

There will be no war. Because basically it's like this. Japan is scared stiff of China so Japan will not do anything against China. If Japan disappears tomorrow, China won't hurt that much.

And:

Japan needs China more than China needs Japan.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2012/09/11/japans-future-depends-on-china-this-is-the-real-danger-in-the-territorial-dispute/

Really, Japanese are real hypocrites.

Just look how they acted toward Korea after Lee Myung Bak visited Dokdo. Japan says his visit was a grave provocation toward Japan. Japan threatened with all kinds of economic retaliations against Korea. But Korea's official position is that the island is indisputable.

But what does Japan do?

They provoke the Chinese by attempting to sell and buy the disputed islands - which is far worse than what Korea did with Dokdo. Ironically, like Korea, Japan too refuses to recognize the disputed islands with China.

So why is Japan surprised with Chinese people's anger and reactions? If Japanese have the right to hate on Koreans for Lee Myung Bak's visit to Dokdo, then the Chinese people also have every right to hate on Japanese for attempting to sell/buy the Daiyou islands.

-22 ( +7 / -29 )

And here I sit in Tokyo today, living side by side with Chinese, exchanging our greetings with a smile, Japanese are still eating in Chinese owned restaurants, and we are going about our business peacefully. I guess I can say Japanese are the adults here. I've taught my children to see people as people, not hate someone because of thier nationality. And as a result, they have friends from around the world. To the leaders of countries, stop sending messages of hatred. Grow up and solve this problem.

7 ( +9 / -3 )

This Forbes article explains very well the Japan's new found militarism based on nationalism which are being used to provoke Japan's neighbors.

A nation feeling economically cornered is prone to react

http://www.forbes.com/global/2012/0910/sidelines-japan-global-leadership-decarlo-darkened-days-tim-ferguson.html

-12 ( +7 / -18 )

Oh come on Yuri - how easy for you to call for China to attack first and wait for a Japanese response from the comfort of your home in the U.S...grow up. Btw, you are the same reader that keeps calling for the U.S. military to get out of Japan , isn,t that right?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I presume that the "provocation" on the Japanese side is the nationalization of four of the islands.

Which is really interesting given that the islands were returned to Japanese sovereignty by the US.

How about this - a reconfirmation by the US that it sees the islands as legally Japanese sovereign territory, and subject to US security guarantees and collective defense obligations.

If the US can't defend the sovereignty of its host, you have to ask why Japan should even allow US forces to remain stationed in japan at all....

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Chucky, it iks CHINA that is provoking Japan, Phillipines, Vietnam, Malaysia. It is CHINA that is considered a threat by all of Asia as well as the United States, Australia and India.

9 ( +12 / -4 )

I am afraid that China will attack one way or another. It's in the forecast unfortunately. If this scales to that predicament, Japan will be forced to weaponize itself and the outcome may be a scary one for all parties involved. China is upset, obviously, but if we see the bigger picture, they are only hurting themselves. They are destroying their own country. How silly and senseless is that? I just saw the news and the videos uploaded on YouTube and there are already videos uploaded of Chinese flags being destroyed in the sane manner as Japanese flags are being destroyed over there. This is really starting to scale to war status. Let's just pray it scales down a bit and their government insists peace in the matter.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The prodigious USA arms and troops in Okinawa notwithstanding - guaranteed USA will not back Japan in this dispute.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

China has ongoing, very intense border disputes with a number of countries : India, Russia, Philippines, Vietnam, for example. . The only reason China is threatening war with Japan is because China knows US will capitulate its promise to defend Japanese territory . . . and will inevitably side with the country that boosts its trade and economy.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

On Tuesday, Japan announced it had nationalised three of the islands in the chain, triggering protests in China. Tokyo already owns another and leases the fifth.

I think it would be greatly appreciated for clarifications sake and so people don't get the wrong idea if JT or whomever wrote this article not make this worse by making it SOUND like Tokyo Prefecture and idiot Shintaro owns an island out there. People who know know, but to the average reader it obfuscates the situation.

Japan would be more appropriate or the national government, something like that, particularly since Tokyo is both the seat of the national gov and Tokyo pref, clarification is prudent.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We are waiting for you in Japan, all you have to do is attack us and we will respond in kind. The mob wants blood and it will either be Japanese or the current government. Japan will not give up an island to thugs. Oh when you attack Japan it is considered an attack on the USA.

No you are not, you are waiting in Oklahoma! It's easy to talk garbage when you have the biggest bully on the block behind you.

Personally, I would love to hear the US tell Japan that they are going to sit this one out. I know it won't happen but Japan needs to learn to better communicate with it's neighbors and work out a peaceful solution to this problem.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Chucky, it iks CHINA that is provoking Japan, Phillipines, Vietnam, Malaysia. It is CHINA that is considered a threat by all of Asia as well as the United States, Australia and India.

OssanAmerica, all this would not have happened if Japan didn't provoke China by selling and buying those disputed islands. There would have been a status quo.

But isn't it ironic that Japanese will go ape sht over Korean president visiting Dokdo, but Japanese can't understand why Chinese go ape sht when Japan tries to sell the islands that China says is China's?

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

If something this trivial in the grand scheme of things triggers a war, then humanity is truly doomed.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

War serves no purpose . Think who suffers most, who are the ones that die. Do you see politicians or the military commanders on that list. Never. War is a way for politicians to cover up their failings , of their policies and own personal ego's. The military heads are being pushed by the weapon manufactures. Now their lies the answer, Weapon Manufactures, now that is big business. Dialogue has to be tried first,using neutral observers and that process should have no time limit. Just like the 6 party talks of North Korea which started in 2003 and went on for 6 or 7 years until the North Koreans stopped talking,ironically they want to start talking again. So for all those nationalists out there,take a time out,relax, Have a look at some pictures from war archives and take in the destruction and loss of life. Maybe thats how the media should react, show the public what to expect and get their reaction.. Japan has still not got over the huge disaster it faced last year, and permanently lives in the threat of another huge earthquake. I see what is now going on middle east, , wars and conflicts disgust me, and I don't think I'm on my own with this thinking. So if you want to protest protest for talks ,for constructive dialogues, there is always room for a compromise.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And here I sit in Tokyo today, living side by side with Chinese, exchanging our greetings with a smile, Japanese are still eating in Chinese owned restaurants, and we are going about our business peacefully. I guess I can say Japanese are the adults here. I've taught my children to see people as people, not hate someone because of thier nationality. And as a result, they have friends from around the world. To the leaders of countries, stop sending messages of hatred. Grow up and solve this problem.

Yes, I been riding KEIO Line From Shinjuku to Takao/Hashimoto, then sometimes I used Yamanote Line and Sobu Line, it is not unusual to hear so many Chinese/Korean people riding on the train talking on their own native languages. Yet no one has been harrassed by Japanese passengers. Japanese are so innocent about what the Chinese mobs are doing. Most of the Japaense on the train are silent just reading books, watching something on the samrtphone etc. Same thing when I rode Nambuku Line and Tozai Line from Azabu-Juban to Nishi-Funabashi to visit a friend's daughter party. Several of the passengers were Chinese speaking fellows. In the party, some of the visitors were Chinese, some were Indians and some were Vietnamese working in the Otemachi Financial districts of some multinational companies. Everybody were matured and civilized.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Yes so "mature" that they protest KPOP (lol) at Fuji TV station? lol... yes, so mature alright.

And so mature that they rampage through the city and harass Koreans and Chinese holding up rising sun flags.

-11 ( +6 / -17 )

that's the problem with playing with matches....

The Japanese are going to be polite, it's part of the culture. Even the right-wingers will be polite and curse silently. The Chinese and Korean governments are whipping up the public to use nationalism to dodge the failures of the respective governments. That's where the danger comes in. Better to negotiate than fight, but it's tough to rally public support for negotiations.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The only reason China is threatening war with Japan is because China knows US will capitulate its promise to defend Japanese territory . . . and will inevitably side with the country that boosts its trade and economy.

The Chinese thought the US wouldn't do anything when they assisted the Serbs in 1999.

That was great targeting ... we put two JDAMs down into the attache's office and took out the exact room we wanted ... they (the Chinese) won't be using that place for rebro (re-broadcasting radio transmissions) any more...

The US will do whatever it takes to maintain its position in the region. They're not going to want a repeat of Woody Island.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

A comment that "this could lead to war" is simply inciting mass hysteria and has little to do with what is really happening.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sorry Eric Schneider, the ones who are more guilty whipping up the public are Japan. In Korea, this island flack with Japan now rarely makes the headlines these days, except for when Japan does something, like announcing economic sanctions against Korea or something. The ordinary Koreans may have private opinions, but they don't go around protesting and attacking Japanese, and screaming at Japanese with bull horns. They just go on with their daily lives.

-10 ( +5 / -14 )

yuriotani:

We are waiting for you in Japan, all you have to do is attack us and we will respond in kind.

That's a strange remark, considering that you're living in America, a country which you assume will bend over backward to help 'your' country and yet you see fit to attack America whenever it suits you.

10 ( +10 / -1 )

@chucky3176 I hope not all koreans think the same way as you do. 100% of ALL your comments are sentiments towards korea and anti-japan(economy,companies,products etc). And by the way there are not much credibility on ALL your post,links and claim.

And what is this?

http://www.forbes.com/global/2012/0910/sidelines-japan-global-leadership-decarlo-darkened-days-tim-ferguson.html

You brought us again in a blog http://blogs.forbes.com/stephenharner/ . Where are the data sheets,fact sheets? Is this even a research or a case study? NO its just an opinion of some Stephen Harner.And you were saying Japan is scared of China? but not korea? and the koreans never did any protest? And Japanese are attacking koreans? Where did you get all of these stuff. I can sense too much grudge coming out from you. You are just one strange koreans trying to put more fuel on fire. You are comparable to those politicians that started all of these .

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@ Ossan and Yuri,

He doesn't sound like he's going to sacrifice American lives for the sake of japan's colonial legacy. He actually sounds like he's trying to distance America from Japan.

So much for your hypothesis that America's got Japan's back. Looks like japan's gonna have to rely on their own hikikomori and Shinjiku metrosexuals to do the blood letting.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I can sense too much grudge coming out from you. You are just one strange koreans trying to put more fuel on fire.

titaniumdioxide, what do you expect when the Japanese media is full of negative articles on Korea? If Japan wants to talk about Koreans in English, in a public forum, then I have every right to defend my country. The fire was already strong, and it didn't need any help from me.

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

If it becomes arm conflict, it'll be mostly air and naval engagements. If the US does not back Japan, then US will lose all credibility to her allies and pretty much surrender half of Pacific to China.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Anti-Japan indoctrination is universal through out primary school to adulthood in Korea and Japan. Almost to a religious zeal.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

SamEsux, so teaching of how Japan brutally invaded Korea and China is anti-Japan indoctrination? Or is it the Truth?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Correction: Anti-Japan indoctrination is universal through out primary school to adulthood in Korea and China. Almost to a religious zeal.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

oh boy i was afraid of this...i don't care who those islands belong to. i just don't wanna see em go to war. so don't go blaming japan is evil, china is evil korea is evil. its the government. and they've been brain washing their people = hatred. -____- like GROW UP PEOPLE!!!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japanese are still eating in Chinese owned restaurants, and we are going about our business peacefully. I guess I can say Japanese are the adults here.

@hereforever Perhaps you are in denial. The Japan Today Article, Nationalists converge on Shin-Okubo's Koreatown published the same day as this article (link below) paints a much different picture than suggested by your take on the situation.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/nasty-nationalists-converge-on-shin-okubos-koreatown

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"Tensions have steadily mounted since pro-Beijing activists were arrested and deported after landing on one of the islands in August. Japanese nationalists then followed, raising their flag on the same island days later."

And WHY did the pro-Beijing activists land on the islands? Because Tokyo announced they would nationalize them. So isn't it more correct to say tensions have steadily mounted since Ishihara announced he wanted to buy the islands?

Yuri: Chanting for war and blood yet again, I see, and saying "an attack on Japan is an attack on the US" after countless times demanding the US leave Japan. Tsk tsk. You realize your as bad as the Chinese whom you rail against for wanting blood, right? You realize you are EXACTLY the same?

Anyway, I've noticed all the people complaining about US bases last week have shut up pretty quick this week.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

YuriOtani, you must be joking. Have you checked the relative numbers of military personnel in Japan and China? http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp China has ten times the soldiers that Japan has. Need I mention that China also has nuclear weapons? Even if Japan were to build some, its population is so heavily concentrated that just a few Chinese nukes could destroy most of the nation. But China's population is so huge that Japan could only make a small dent. And don't think for a moment that the Americans are willing to go to war with China so that Japan can keep its tenuous claim to a few ocean rocks. As long as it doesn't go to nuclear war and as long as China doesn't attack US bases, you're on your own, mates. Go down to Harajuku today and see how many blokes you can sign up for the SDF.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I am strongly suggesting to Japanese government to add more security shield inside the Japanese Embassy in China as China is not fulfilling their legal obligation to do so as listed on my post above.

Please issue safety warning to all Japanese business representatives and their families to be vigilant and alarmed while they are alone..

Also Japan may needs to consider banning Japanese tourists visiting China until China officially denaunce violence and riots in public.

These need to be done immediately.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Who was saying that Japan is the more mature party? The Japanese media ignore right wing attacks on foreigners, but such attacks do occur.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/nasty-nationalists-converge-on-shin-okubos-koreatown

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Eric: "The Chinese and Korean governments are whipping up the public to use nationalism to dodge the failures of the respective governments."

Yeah, and Japan's not doing that at all... ahem... before the election.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Eric: Meant to add... notice how there's little to no talk of the government failures with the situation in the north of Japan anymore? Convenient, don't you think?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Breakingpoint, I use to be like you ("nothing good comes out from Japan"). I remember in school being taught everything about Japan was evil, blindly hate them, they should be purged, and they are not human. But have you visited Japan, interacted with them, and get to know them? Japanese are like most people in the world. In lot of cases, more polite.

I'm not questioning the brutality of Imperial Japanese Army during WWII, but has Japan waged war against other countries since 1945? What about China? Has China been pacifist? Ask the Indians (Sino-Indian war 1962), and Vietnamese (Sino-Vietnamese War 1979). And what about South Korea's involvement in Vietnam war?

Japan has apologized numerous times for WWII.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Breakingpoint, history is written by victors. There are 2 sides to the story and truth is somewhere in the middle.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

chucky3176SEP. 17, 2012 - 10:40AM JST titaniumdioxide, what do you expect when the Japanese media is full of negative articles on Korea? If Japan wants to talk about Koreans in English, in a public forum, then I have every right to defend my country. The fire was already strong, and it didn't need any help from me.

I am glad to see chucky is reinforcing the perception of Koreans living in Japan. i.e: we hate Japan but are happy to live here.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

All these crimes committed by Japanese in Asia was approved and supported by the Japanese government. The Japanese government never changed, look at Ishihara and others that had gained support from the populace.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Breakingpoint, how is today's Japan acting like imperial days? Again since 1945, has Japan been involved in military engagement against other countries? Japan has been one of the most pacifist country in post WWII. If you ask the Indians and Vietnamese, they would say China is the expansionist aggressor power.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

SamEsux: "Japan has apologized numerous times for WWII. What about European colonial powers?"

Are you being serious? So, according to you yourself, you used to blindly hate Japan and all things Japanese, and not you just blindly love and defend it. And why bring up South Korea's involvement in Viet Nam. It was extremely short, and solely in support of the US for their support in the Korean war. Japan also supported the US in Viet Nam, or did you not know that? It wasn't with troops, suffice it to say, but they did support them in other ways against the Vietnamese.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

SamEsux: For one who's saying 'let go of the hate' and saying 'the past is the past' in regards to Japanese aggression, bringing up any and all examples of other nations aggression, some quite ancient history, you're doing a pretty poor job of practicing what you preach.

These disputes aren't one-sided, and while you try again and again to deflect, Japan is in fact involved and very active in the aggression and rhetoric.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Jaymann if China thinks Japan will do nothing it almost guarantees a war. If the Chinese think not only Japan will defend these islands and the Americans will help, then it reduces the chances of war. Being weak is a sure form of suicide. The communists will grasp any weakness on Japans part and attack.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The only thing that the current government of China understands, as it was built on use of force against its own people is the threat of force if they try to use it in the same way internationally. We have learned this lesson in history time and time again, tyrants of any sort, no matter what their cover, only respond to the threat of others doing to them what they are wiling to do themselves..in this case the repeated bullying by China and their outrageous claims of the entirety of the ocean trade lanes that touch their shores shows that they have no concept of shared international interests, they only thing of them and us.

Well they will have to re learn what they have had to learn in the past, that the world is much bigger than China and that everyone in the world has the right to be respected, and treated with respect.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

YuriOtani: "Jaymann if China thinks Japan will do nothing it almost guarantees a war."

Japan would be destroyed almost entirely if there were war. I'm not sure why you're begging for it. The Americans aren't going to help Japan over a few rocks, Yuri. YOu need to understand that before you start beating the war drums again. Like I said before, you are EXACTLY like the Chinese radicals you rail against. But hey, Japanese originally come from China and the Koreas, so I guess it's understandable wingers are the same here as there.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The problem is the state. The state = force, no matter which state it is. It is a monopoly on violence and it alone fans the flames of war. Free markets is the answer.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@chucky3176 just checked out your korea sentry forum http://www.koreansentry.com/forum/index.php seems like the Korean version of a Japanese nationalistic forum...all the same underlying hate and rhetoric combined with a victim mentality

4 ( +5 / -1 )

SamEsux: "I brought up South Korea's involvement in Vietnam because it is true. "

I know it's true, and didn't say it wasn't. I notice you didn't even try to touch on my point about Japan being involved.

"Koreans like to portray itself as pure country but like all other countries it also has dark history."

So does Japan, a fact you seem to constantly try and deflect by painting other nations as aggressors. Your ENTIRE post is, in fact, a deflection. You cannot seriously compare SK's involvement in the Vietnam War with Japans brutal colonial reign of Asia in which they killed more than 10 million people and call other nations 'dark' while asking everyone not to compare the Japan of today with that of the past. The hypocrisy is astounding.

"Smithinjapan, I don't "blindly" love Japan."

Umm... yeah, it seems you do.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

YuriOtaniSep. 17, 2012 - 12:17PM JST

Jaymann if China thinks Japan will do nothing it almost guarantees a war. If the Chinese think not only Japan will defend these islands and the Americans will help, then it reduces the chances of war. Being weak is a sure form of suicide. The communists will grasp any weakness on Japans part and attack.

@Yuri

I have noticed some changes in your posts recently. Is it something to do with your life changes? You used to live in Okinawa and now you are in Oklahoma in USA. Are you beating war drum because you feel much safer because you live in USA? I am just curious. Do you know how many Japanese were killed during WWII? Do you know how they lost everything? Do you know how many were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

SamEsux: "My point is no country has clean history. Yes, Imperial Japan did evil things. But Koreans and Chinese are not exactly saints either."

B-b-b-b-ut you ask us not to compare the Japan of the past to the Japan of the present while constantly bringing up other nations' histories!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I have noticed some changes in your posts recently. Is it something to do with your life changes? You used to live in Okinawa and now you are in Oklahoma in USA. Are you beating war drum because you feel much safer because you live in USA? I am just curious. Do you know how many Japanese were killed during WWII? Do you know how they lost everything? Do you know how many were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

If you think WWII was bad, wait till WWIII rolls around. The Han race itself might become extinct. The US has a lot more powerful weapons at its disposal and I'm not talking about nuclear weapons.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Cui bono? Japan? No

China? Perhaps

US? To be sure

Has anyone considered that China is threatening the US ally Japan at the same time the US is threatening Chinese ally Iran? Japan is the US beachhead in Asia and the US is out to isolate China and diminish its regional authority. Oh, and about that base relocation issue and the Osprey deployment....

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Noda reiterated Kan's declaration that the Japan/US alliance was the core of Japan's foreign policy. Japan is not likely to act unilaterally with regards to China. Does anyone believe that the US is sitting on the sideline wondering, "why can't we all just get along?"

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Although the politburo politicians exacerbated the situation with their mishandling of this territorial spat, I believe they had no idea it would be this uncontrollable in China. It might bear watching to see how "out of hand" the situation gets. In Japan, I believe, the extremist politicians there are willing to go to any lengths to raise popular sentiment to benefit their political careers and encourage any kind of change. As for war, its too early to speculate, there are too many dynamic changes and political private interests occurring in both countries. Suffice it to say the Obama administration and DOD is nervous about any change particularly when it pertains to two of their largest trading partners in the world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't see why everyone is getting so riled up about this, the world is going to end in a little over three months from today on Dec. 21st anyway so who cares who owns these islands?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Japanese race would most certainly be annihilated completely, as would we all, probably, but there's NO WAY the US is going to attack South Korea -- they have bases there and depend on them as much as they do Japan in terms of strategic position. South Korea and Japan constantly hold joint drills, which Japan usually asks to be included in.

And here I thought we were talking about China. But I don't really expect South Korea to come through unscathed in a world war. What with all the US forces stationed in their country. If the US becomes embroiled in a conflict with China, you can count on a resumption of the Korean War.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

chucky3176 Yes so "mature" that they protest KPOP (lol) at Fuji TV station? lol... yes, so mature alright. And so mature that they rampage through the city and harass Koreans and Chinese holding up rising sun flags

The majority of Japaneses do not judge who Koreans are just looking at some Korean nationalist who cut the head of pheasants in front of Japan Embassy which is the symbolic bird of Japan, or burning some flags INSIDE of Kinpo air port for the anti Japaneses movement on that day. The people who do these kinds of things wherever a country is, do not represent the country itself. We must have more broader point of view especially time like this.

I would like China Sue Japan if they really think Senkaku is China. I am Japaneses but I do not subscribe to YuriOtani kind of idea. (Sorry Yuri, Nothing personal to you. I have lost 2 uncles in the war, a war is not the game that we can watch it as a spectator.)

I am a believer of SF treaty.So firmly I believe Senaku is Japan before SF treaty and after the treaty.

Before the treaty: 1895, after the confirmation from Shin(China then) which is no one`s land. Japan registered as Okinawa. Until 1941, Japaneses lived there, there was a bonito flake factry. 1920, Chinses gov. issued the official letter to JPN Gov. for appreciation to save some Chinese fish men by JPN fish men. It stated the area they had shipwrecked Senkaku area Japan.Then war broke out. Japaneses on the islands went back to the main land.

After the treaty, SF treaty #2 indicates what Japan lost or separated.SF treaty #3 indicates what Japan keeps or would be ruled by allies. Takeshima was left for Japan. Entire Okinawa prefecture Senkaku became American control. In 1972, Okinawa prefecture was returned to Japan(All Okinawan islands) China said nothing when it became American control, not while the islands were occupied by the US nor after they were returned. However, after the natural resources was found, and after China took a control of Paracel Islands in1974, then 1995,after the US left from Filipin,China built their military base on Spratly Islands , China is showing their presence in South Asia which makes Vietnam, Filipin very apprehensive. China promulgated an unilateral teritorical water law in 1992 at Senkaku area which is the baseless law becasue Senkaku has recognaized as Japan based on SF treaty(As US occupation then)under International law.

Recent JPN Government transaction of the ownership from a Japaneses private owner`s land to Government property should not change anything. Japan did not buy sovereignty. If US Gov, buy any land from a private owner on Hawaii would not change the realty of sovereignty. This is my understanding in chronological order.

However how it is legitimate based on the SF treaty, I would like to confirm under today`s international law.The Takeshima issue as well. These issues must be discussed at ICJ so that the world will know who is right, who is wrong. And Whichever the countries get involved this, must make the best effort refraining from any military action.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Bet the U.S. is wishing they never held back Chiang Kai Shek at the end of WW2. He had the communists on the ropes. Should have sent the Russsians packing out of Eastern Europe too.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

YuriOtani: "Smith again you really hate Japan!"

Actually, to be quite frank it's people like yourself that hate Japan -- people who rail against the government one minute, claiming they are not Japanese but 'Ryukyu' or whatever -- and want to drag the nation into a war that would see it's end. What I hate are the politics that promote that kind of thing, and loathe the people who beg for war over a few rocks and potential resources when they would never have them if war occurred anyway.

"Like the Communist Soviets they have no moral values at all. "

Actually, you espouse many of the same values, and certainly the aggression, in most if not all of yours posts -- demanding the US leave one minute then demanding they defend you the next, declaring yourself non-Japanese then Japanese the next; declaring 'Red China' nothing but a threat while threatening them with war. Like I said, you are exactly the same. If anyone hates Japan, it's people like yourself. I want the tensions and aggression to go down, if not cease entirely, and a peaceful resolution to be found -- it's pretty clear what you want.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is one thing I'm pretty sure is that "hatred makes nothing better and will ruin your life and others after all". That's I learned it from primary school teacher a long time ago.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

House Atreides: "And here I thought we were talking about China."

Sorry. You said "Han race" and I immediately thought of South Korea. My bad if you were referring to China. We'd still all be wiped out, though.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The real enemy is war itself. A violent conflict is in no ones best interest...

My suggestion to the world is pull out all your businesses from China. Stop buying their cheap crap and return manufacturing to your own country.. Outlaw all imports from China.

If you need to have factories overseas, choose an non-communist or non-religious controlled country..

This will boost your own economy and China will slip back into its backwards medieval ways... Their only industry will be pirated and counterfeit material which they are famous for...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

kwatt: "There is one thing I'm pretty sure is that "hatred makes nothing better and will ruin your life and others after all". That's I learned it from primary school teacher a long time ago."

That's sweet, and very true. Fortunately i don't hate Japan, unlike people like YuriOtani. Unfortunately you failed to read that in many previous posts. Hating the politics that are involved on ALL sides in this dispute is still hate, I suppose, but that in no way means I hate this nation or its people. Saying "hater" or "J-basher" or what have you is simply an irrational response by people who cannot offer a retort to a logical post. It's simply one step above "if you don't like it, leave", which is the kind of gut response they are railing against for the most part.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Lost in the nationalism haranguing, has been the subtle political maneuvers and alliances that may be in the works. Rather than being an impartial bystander, I believe the U.S. wants to have some active influence in these potential upcoming international elections in both China and Japan. It might be interesting to observe which political party receives any U.S. monetary backing or backroom agreements from the U.S., if at all.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I really hope Japan doesn't lower themselves to the level of the Chinese by retaliating in such a low class, violent tactics.

The corrupt, immoral, dishonest Chinese Gov't started this confrontation just to bolster their own Nationalistic support - and I bet they will play the heros in fixing it - Typical dominant unethical tactics on their part.

I bet they're even supporting all those brainwashed, thinned skinned hot head protesters.

Grow up China & act properly, otherwise the rest of the world will still continue to look down at you!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@YURI: I'LL BE GODDAMNED if more American boys die of Japanese stupidity. Maybe it's because you've been in the States for too long but last time I looked around here (I'm in Osaka) these little boys are barely skin draped over a set of bones. Their hair weighs more than they do. They'd get slaughtered. The only people with a pair in Japan are the elderly and well they are "unable to tolerate" war.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"hereforeverSEP. 17, 2012 - 08:39AM JST And here I sit in Tokyo today, living side by side with Chinese, exchanging our greetings with a smile, Japanese are still eating in Chinese owned restaurants, and we are going about our business peacefully. I guess I can say Japanese are the adults here. I've taught my children to see people as people, not hate someone because of thier nationality. And as a result, they have friends from around the world. To the leaders of countries, stop sending messages of hatred. Grow up and solve this problem."

INDEED!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Also one more pint, if war starts, we as Japaneses risks some American men and women in uniform. We all Japanese must make the best effort avoid any military conflict. We should bring Senkaku issue to ICJ or some other system to be judged. Starting war is easy but I do not (sad) believe today`s Japaneses government could bring any exit strategy after any military action. Let us face the reality and let we as Japaneses more responsible to the world.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

WWII ended more than 60 years ago and there are less and less people who experienced it. Whatever has been said or not said, it's time for China, Korea and Japan to move on.

School children in these countries should not be taught revisionist history. Chairman Mao killed 45 million of his own people. The military dictator in Korea killed 100,000+ of his own people at the outbreak of the Korean war. Is any of this taught to school children. The Japanese Imperial forces were brutal but the generations of today can't be held responsible for that.

There are still many Korean laws relating back to the time of the military dictatorships which need appealing so the country can become a true democracy.

All school children should be taught about the horrors of war, and the benefits of peace and peaceful existence with your neighbor.

China, Korea and Japan all need each other, one way or another and the current tensions and unrest will harm all three of them. It would advance each country further if they find ways to work together, like producing new technologies which they can sell to the rest of the world. Renewable energy could be another.

The issue about small islands and rocks is about oil and gas. The three countries need to form a partnership to start extracting it, so that all three can mutually benefit from it.

If tension and unrest builds up in the region, all three countries will suffer because of it.

Japan needs a new ministry for Chinese and Korean relationships. All three gov't need to ensure that non nationals in their countries are not being harmed and attacked and the attack on foreign business is sending the wrong message to other countries.

All public outbursts of violence and hate speech must be stopped by the authorities of those countries.

There are enough wars going on in the world and we don't need any new ones. Japan couldn't win a war against China, even with American backing which has no stomach or money for anymore. China would also be badly damaged by any war mongering.

Japanese right-wing nationalists are happy to keep pushing the button to help in their cause for the country to have it's own atomic weapons and there are way too many politicians thinking like that too.

The ordinary people of the three countries will only prosper if there's a peaceful relationship between them. There's needs to a greater understanding of the cultures of each country, which should be taught to the school children and greater cultural exchanges.

The people of China, Korea and Japan have more in common than they do in differences.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

"How about this - a reconfirmation by the US that it sees the islands as legally Japanese sovereign territory, and subject to US security guarantees and collective defense obligations." Hikozaemon, please post link to this statement allegedly made by the U.S.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"Whatever has been said or not said, it's time for China, Korea and Japan to move on." Zichi, well said.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I think all the nationalists should join the SDF and defend the islands themselves. That includes Ishihara.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

China is not nearly as strong as you think. While they have a huge army, they need ships to move it anywhere like the Okinawa islands. The Communists Chinese are thugs, they only understand force. Like the Communist Soviets they have no moral values at all. Promoting a strong defense is not advocating war but peace. As for repeating the past the military were the ones that went out of control in Manchuria in 32. They assassinated and killed our elected PM and other government leaders. If you are so worried about Japan being destroyed please leave. If China thinks they can get away with using nukes on China then South Korea is lost as well. Cough about Vietnam over a million of them were killed in the war. Second the terms of the Paris agreement were violated when the South did not allow the election to be held. The government in the South was self serving and corrupt, does this remind you of a current lost American conflict?"

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

YuriOtani: "The Communists Chinese are thugs, they only understand force."

This from a person who is suggesting and hoping for force. Hmmmm....

"If China thinks they can get away with using nukes on China then South Korea is lost as well. Cough about Vietnam over a million of them were killed in the war. Second the terms of the Paris agreement were violated when the South did not allow the election to be held. The government in the South was self serving and corrupt, does this remind you of a current lost American conflict?"

Blasting the US again while demanding their support, I see. All this talk about history and not one suggestion that Japan has any history at all.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Thomas: "I think all the nationalists should join the SDF and defend the islands themselves. That includes Ishihara."

Sadly, that would lead to the full out war that Yuri pines for. And Ishihara would never join, he'd just write plays about the glory of kamikaze pilots.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Zichi: The issue about small islands and rocks is about oil and gas. The three countries need to form a partnership to start extracting it, so that all three can mutually benefit from it.

Good saying! Taiwan has proposed the same idea but JP didn't accept it, so we've to plan other way! I believe harder shows have yet come tilldate.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

To all those who say Japan/Japanese are all so peaceful.....................well if you truly pay attention you wud know that peaceful bit is usually a thin veneer. Just look around, one trait of many Japanese that has always scared me & thats their ability to go from peaceful to off their rocker in a very short time. A past example was when koizumi brought back some abuductees, the entire country became LIT!

Folks its just below the surface, its always been there, if it comes out again, watch out. And to those of you saying how poised & calm Japan has been in this....................DONT MATTER, when Japan kicks a little sand in the face of those mad at you, the govt decicision to "buy" the islands RIGHT WHEN China was all worked up was STUPID STUPID STUPID! Japan shud have waited till when china/chinese were settled down, occupied with chinese new year or something, BUT NO they throw gas onto the fire & then act surprised at the results.

And like I have been saying the YANKS ARE PISSED OFF! Why the hell do you think Panetta is here! Yanks WILL NOT look kindly on Japan if they end up having their sons/daughters spilling blood off the coast of Taiwan! The Senkaku are Japans problem, Japan needs to deal with it on their own. Advice to J-govt, STOP KNOWINGLY PISSING OFF CHINA FOR NO DAMEND GOOD REASON!

Both Japan & China are in the wrong here bigtime, but here we are, I guess the question is will the US be able to keep the Jeannie in the bottle!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Reemeber it was the 'Heritage foundation' of America, a think tank of former US hawks that given the platform for Ishihara Shintaro's provocative act of 'isles purchasing' that leads to the tension of today! America was the one should be 'blamed'! America wants to see all asians hatred of each other causing massive casualties and miserables for them to profit in asia! This is what Mr Panetta failed to understand!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

This is what Mr Panetta failed to understand!

Failed to admit.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

We should bring Senkaku issue to ICJ

Unless China brings it to ICJ, there is nothing Japan can do as it thinks Senkakus are Japan's territory. But never heard that China wanted to propose it to ICJ in the past. However ICJ is the last choice for Japan to avoid the potential war with China. Japan would have to accept it to ICJ when China really wants ICJ although China has other disputes. Japan is not that easy to accept it but it would do it to avoid the war.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

America's intention to asia is 'profit making' of their own! Only a tensioned and bitter hatred of each other is the benefits of US! Because the bank is thats all where the money is (A remarks from Wiley Sutton)! An analogy: US is Wiley Sutton, China is the bank!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Lets be honest here. A logical outcome of a war would go something like this:

After the intial long range air confrontations, the blue water navies of Japan and China would go and fight. Korea, not wanting to get involved at all, would demand Korea not be a staging zone for US flights in support of the war.

China mounts a full scale amphib assault of Okinawa. Army may or may not get beaten back by US assets.

In the case that it gets beaten back - what does this leave a blustering Chinese government to do in the face of loss? Perhaps the use of a few TACTICAL NUCLEAR WARHEADS. Arguing that the use of tactical warheads only on the Japanese populace would not give reason for retaliation in kind by the US from strategic assets (ICBMs).

In the case they don't get beaten back, China successfully captures Okinawa. US forces have very few options in this case. My thinking is that if this happens before the election a republican will be voted in. YAY more level headed thinking!!!!

Basically - China is a massive threat but their amphibious capabilities over a large sea are limited. They're designed with crossing a small strait (like to Taiwan), not a large blue water sea over to Japanese waters. That is the only advantage that Japan and the US have in the area. However, it is arguable that in the face of defeat, rather then lose face, the Chinese would employ tactical nuclear weapons, hoping that by not striking large strategic targets or directly at US troops, it would not result in a response in-kind.

What should Japan do? Get some people in government who are not completely insane. While China and Korea have been indoctrinating their students over the last 60 years, so has Japan in the last 20 to 30 years - against China and Korea. Let's try and talk things out and silence those idiots in government who remember the 'glory days' of when 'Japan was great' - what utter crap. Japan suffered, my relatives suffered, millions died so some politicians could live out their personal wet dream. Time for a little level headed thinking in Japan and a lot less nationalistic crap, or it could really mean the end of innocence for this little island nation.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

BTW - Why assault Okinawa you ask? It's the only place left in the region that the US can stage effectively out of (being that Korea refuses US military flights from using their airspace to prevent getting involved).

Besides which - with Okinawa capped, the US is effectively gone from the area - bases in Japan and Korea are a little too far for effective force projection to a large portion of South East Asia. With the US gone, China has a much easier time exerting control over other areas in the region.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

For what I know, the Heritage Foundation may have a clue. A conflict over the Senkaku islands will at least prevent the two biggest USTB holders from teaming up in defiance of the modified Bretton Woods regime that has to pursue the 3rd round of the quantitative easing and further issuance of empty deeds. But surprised to see in this day and age Mao's placard in the protesters mostly young people who were reared or perhaps warped by the only one child policy without political freedom allowed to them except anti-Japanese rhetoric and behavior. Not so bright outlook in this region anyway.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Smith do not see China attacking Japan. It would be sending its sailors to die. It will be a naval and air combat. The Chinese have copies of Russian stuff. The stuff that has failed in every conflict since the gulf war. A lot of their ships are obsolete by any standards. Any conflict would be UGLY with the Chinese being attacked by superior Japanese air and naval forces. Any conflict will show the value of these islands. Japan has not put offensive bases on these islands but China would.

All you see is my support of my country. Any conflict requires Communist China to start it. China will huff and puff and do nothing. China needs to worry about the mob. There is danger of a overthrow of the current government.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

kwatt: "Unless China brings it to ICJ, there is nothing Japan can do as it thinks Senkakus are Japan's territory. But never heard that China wanted to propose it to ICJ in the past."

Perhaps so, and definitely China has not brought up any such proposition in the past, but remember that Genba himself said that there is no territorial issue in regards to the Senkakus, so it's pretty clear Japan has no interesting in going to the ICJ on this issue as well (despite the hypocrisy of wanting to do so with Dokdo!).

As I said before, and not directed at you, kwatt, the people who truly hate Japan are those who hate the nations around it and are calling for war. War is in the interests of no one but selfish, hateful people. This issue has to calm down, and since China is unwilling to it seems it's up to Japan to take the high road. Thing is, with all the rightist sentiment fired up that's not going to happen -- especially with an election in the works. The dog that barks the loudest will be elected, and that will spell nothing but trouble for this nation. Panetta is right to be upset, Japan, like its neighbours, is acting like a petulant child over nothing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

For those Chinese nationalist who easily talk about using nuclear weapon.

"The fundamental role of U.S. nuclear weapons, which will continue as long as nuclear weapons exist, is to deter nuclear attack on the United States, our allies, and partners."

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why don't the Japanese take the Diayou islands to ICJ huh? Oh yea, they didn't!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

YuriOtani,

You claim the Chinese would suffer at the hands of the SUPERIOR Japanese military!!! Im sorry but this is the most uninformed, pie in the sky comment ever. The JSDF is a glorified bunch of pencil pushers going around. They have not actual experience, they have copies of US equipment that has never been tried in battle, they have no experienced officers or NCO's to take control and to top it all off they can quite at any time as they are not a military force in the sense of most other nations. And if history teaches us anything numbers can and do overwhelme superiority on the battlefield, look at Korea. Underequiped Chinese forces decimated the UN and fought them to a standstill. Even the US in WW2 went for numbers over quality and won. So l wouldnt get to ambitious with my statements just yet.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

YuriOtani: "Any conflict would be UGLY with the Chinese being attacked by superior Japanese air and naval forces."

Wrong. Japan would likely make some grounds in protecting the islands in the short run, but they would definitely lose out in the long run, and the islands would forever after be Chinese, probably along with much of the Yaeyama island chain. The US would not step in as they would not wish to escalate the conflict to full out world war, and China would stop with owning more Ryukyu. Japan simply cannot hold out a sustained war due to numbers. As for huffing and puffing, it's Japan that's doing that, clearly, because if push came to shove they would be done in a heartbeat. Look at morons like Abe, pushing the communist line to get a few points towards a job he already quit once. As for corrupt and/or ineffectual governments, how many PMs has Japan had while the last head of state has been in power in China? Perhaps you should focus on a 'civil war' in Japan, namely that of politics, before wishing for war with neighbouring nations when you're safe at home in the US. Clearly the politics here have failed, and playing on right wing voters doesn't help.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

YuriOtani

Any conflict would be UGLY with the Chinese being attacked by superior Japanese air and naval forces.

Kamikaze will not save Japan this time. The Japanese are rather naive and engage in magical thinking where they just believe in what they want to believe. They don't want China to attack Japan, so they decide that somehow China won't attack Japan. They don't want Chinese military to be superior to Japanese military, so the Chinese military is poor and obsolete. They don't want a nuclear accident to occur, so a nuclear accident just can not happen. And so on and so forth...

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Thomas, kamikaze did not save Japan in the last war.

smithinjapan, if America does not support Japan the rightwing will win big time. The Americans will be out of Japan, South Korea cutoff and Japan processing atomic weapons. Am AGAINST Japan processing these devices! The Americans may not want to fight but they lose all credibility if they do not.

outahere, numbers did not help in Iraq where the Americans were greatly outnumbered. Two times in a row they slaughtered the superior number Iraqi troops. Second China would have to send the entire fleet of obsolete Russian ships. If the sdf is a joke might as well be found out now.

Again China wants to scare Japan into surrender. Those islands are not enough, Okinawa is not enough. China wants our entire country, after all it was a tributary state once upon a time.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The US has already reiterated that they will not get involved. The US would like everyone to play nice but don't please expect us to fight your fights. There was absolutely no reason for Japan to pursue the purchase of the Sengkaku as the status quo allowed everyone to save face. Japan, you started it so you finish it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

YurOtani, I don't think Japan will get nuclear weapons, they had the Fukushima problem and Japanese government wants to be nuclear-free.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Chinese people only want revenge for what our grandfathers did. Sadly my grandfather has been dead for like 25 years by now. China can try to war on us, but. what Chinese doesn't know and I do know is that we have large Missile Silos. I know that cause I've worked in Tokyo underground tunnels. Those who think that we don't have large nuclear weapons is wrong. Just a fact. We can do what we want when we want in Senkaku. Its ours.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@Yuri

Sometimes, I wonder if you really think these things through when you just spout out. What Smith said is true, to be honest. The US would never attack South Korea, Like Japan, they are equal allies. You say, the Chinese are thugs, Ok, but to the Chinese and the Koreans, Japanese are the thugs, want to take a survey. The point is none if you three will ever back down about these Islands, that is apparently clear at this point. What do you think Japan is going to do. Yes, Japan has a superior Air fleet and Navel fleet, but then what? They have over a million man army. America is an ally and is sworn to protect Japan, but America has its own problems with high unemployment, debt, slashed military budgets, 2 wars, one of them still going on, now our embassies have been attacked, who knows what will happen next, it's like a nuclear chain reaction and it could possibly lead to another conflict and Japan now. Our resources are stretched thin, really thin. Japan and China really need to think this through in all seriousness, Japan shouldn't let China bully them, but the way this is escalating is really bad. Because if Japan doesn't have the US, I don't think Japan would talk crap to China. China is waiting and itching to go to war, you can tell, they are just waiting for the word, both sides have a lot to lose, two economic superpowers going at it and like a domino effect, that in turn will hurt the rest of the world and everyone will pay a heavy price in the long run. I don't think both sides see the deeper ramifications of this crisis.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Mr. Ishihara's plan. 1) Provoke 2) Sell fear and hate 3) Capitalize all the way to the PM office

3 ( +3 / -0 )

You people just remember cthat China sent 5 vessels, non military, and they left the area. Ha, Their president only wants support. That way he can be richer. Just like Ishibara.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

breakingpoint, if we could not rely on America defending Japan, then they are needed. If America does not defend our islands, why would they risk their country by using atomic s on China? Anyhow China would be able to destroy Japan. Most likely attacks on big cities. Then the invasion a bloodbath as Chinese will make revenge attacks on civilians. America doing nothing is the last stage to their decline.The new superpowers China and Russia,

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

What we need is an Asian version of NATO. A lot of countries feel threatened by china and rightfully so. A NATO for this region would help contain Chinese expansion as well as relieve the burden for the US to maintain stability. This will allow the us to scale down its comitments in this region and save money while still maintaining peace in east asia. It's the best idea I could come up with.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

YuriOtani, you got US to protect Japan, and US won't allow Japan to produce one.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well Penatta just said on TV that while the US honors its treaty obligations, it does not get involved in these territorial disputes.

Sounded very clear to me that Penatta was saying Japan was on its own with this problem.

Hard luck Ossan and Yuri, people have been saying it for weeks on here, but the US isn't going to do the dieing for the Japanese over this issue.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It's about time for Japan to re arm himself go nuclear, and once again his trusted ally stab him in the back. can't rely a leech what a shame.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan will never go nuclear, as for this dispute, Japan should take this to the ICJ. LOL

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Would China invade Okinawa? Short answer is no. Would US order fleet/Marines/Air Force to engage Chinese forces ? Short answer is no. Would the world's economy go to tank if above were " yes " instead of " no " ? Short answer is yes.

Would China invade and occupy the rocks ? Short answer is " may be " leaning to " yes " if both sides ( China , Japan ) keep this nonsense up. Would China use nuke on Japan? short answer is " no " unless the US nukes China first ( which everyone, including our dear yuri ,don't think is possible )................. and the conlusion ? China may occupy the rocks. Economy/stock market suffers a little, then rebound strongely as japan complain to the UN with meetings Ad nauseam. Japan then merrily plays her " victim card " again and end of crisis.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Can't believe America is bowing down in this form of savagery, Buying of those island is out of the question, We have international Court of Justice to settle this.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Perhaps so, and definitely China has not brought up any such proposition in the past, but remember that Genba himself said that there is no territorial issue in regards to the Senkakus, so it's pretty clear Japan has no interesting in going to the ICJ on this issue as well (despite the hypocrisy of wanting to do so with Dokdo!).

Whatever you are insisting, it is no doubt that Japanese and Chinese government do not want war about such a dispute. China does not want its economy growth down and worse and Japan either. So best solution is to bring it to ICJ to avoid war whether Japan and China like ICJ or not, (because if Japan and China can't settle it down peacefully). I'm pretty sure that both Chinese and Japanese government are already contacting each other secretly and considering the ICJ to AVOID such a stupid war although Chinese stupid people might want war. I know that Japan (with article #9) does not want war at least. If China wants war, there is nothing you can do about, and then we would simply let nature take its course and both #2 and #3 economy countries would collapse (if war happened). In the first place ,the US never accepts that Japan loses these isles because US military is using small isles around Senkaku Archipelago for military drills.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is a racial struggle between Chinese and Japanese not just a 'territory dispute' and is far more complicated than expected!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue, China can use its ICBMs on Japan any day without its navy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

All the major Japanese companies have closed their factories and sent the Chinese workers home.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

YuriOtani: "breakingpoint, if we could not rely on America defending Japan, then they are needed. "

This doesn't make any sense, and makes less sense given that you demand them be gone. So which is it, Yuri, do you want the US presence or not? My guess is you will not answer my question.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Time to toss out Article 9 and arm up.

But if China keeps playing wana-be big-bully that paper tiger may get more than it wanted.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

breakingpoint: "SamuraiBlue, China can use its ICBMs on Japan any day without its navy."

Exactly, and with 80% of Japanese concentrated on less than 20% of it's territory, it would be bye-bye for the land of the rising sun.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

breakingpointSep. 17, 2012 - 04:01PM JST SamuraiBlue, China can use its ICBMs on Japan any day without its navy.

The minute it did that China would become Asia's biggest parking lot.

China is a paper tiger and if it keeps pushing the world will see.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This is not about indignation of what happen in World War 2, this is not about prejudice since we both have suffered from our friends and foes alike. This is about righting what is right with wrong. China is committing aggression in the cover of being the aggrieve party. He is shouting thieves while grabbing every territory he wish.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

breakingpoint

In doing so PRC would start WW3 in which nobody wins, capisci?

In order to win, PRC must declare a limited conventional sea war in which case the PLAN is overly outdated. Even the ones that were made in the early 90's are cheap Soviet copies of the 80's so are very limited in terms of electronics.

The Han class SSNs are a joke leaking radiation and the Song class SSKs are cheap copies of the Kilo class Soviet subs. As for the Romeo class I don't understand why they are still in active duty.

Although the list I posted is somewhat old I believe JMSDF still has a decisive edge against the outdated PLAN.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue: "The Han class SSNs are a joke leaking radiation and the Song class SSKs are cheap copies of the Kilo class Soviet subs. As for the Romeo class I don't understand why they are still in active duty."

They still do the job, and would still do the job if needs be. And it would be a simple job, really -- Japan doesn't have the defense to keep off the enemy in a prolonged war. Keep begging for it all you want, and keep demanding wingers for PM who will quit within a year -- We would all lose if war broke out, but Japan would be the first nation annihilated. Try thinking about that when you think of your loved ones. Peace is far more important than war, especially over a few tiny stones in the sea.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Nippon_Banzai: "He is shouting thieves while grabbing every territory he wish."

And why is that, since it has nothing to do with history according to history deniers? They're grabbing it for fun?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

breakingpoint: "SamuraiBlue, China can use its ICBMs on Japan any day without its navy." Exactly, and with 80% of Japanese concentrated on less than 20% of it's territory, it would be bye-bye for the land of the rising sun.

ICBM also would destroy US bases in Japan, then what's going to happen next?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japan should take this to ICJ, to settle it in a peaceful way. USA won't be involve in any territorial disputes.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

smithinjapan

No since they will be long gone spotted and sunk by P3C and P2 patrol planes which technology PRC does not own. So PLAN's subs would be rendered useless unable to leave port. The only way to be useful is to create a blockade in the Southern Chinese sea in which case you'll have to deal with the US navy.(It's like Iran threatening to block the Strait of Hormuz, they will be blown out of the water the minute they set up the blockade since it will not only effect Japan but most of the other nations within the region as well.)

In a limited hot war the technological gap between PRC and Japan is pretty much wide in advantage towards Japan.

OT but as for the SK navy they are out numbered 10 to 1 by the JMSDF.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan should take this to ICJ, to settle it in a peaceful way. USA won't be involve in any territorial disputes.

Unless China brings it to ICJ, Japan only can't do it. Both China and Japan have to agree each other and bring it to ICJ. I think Japanese and Chinese government are already contacting each other secretly and considering ICJ to avoid the potential war.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue, compare to China, Japan lacks firepower in both Air and Land which China easily surpasses. Japan relies on US on everything else. BTW, the JMSDF is relatively equivalent to ROKN but fewer vessels.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

breakingpoint

The army has little to no significance in ocean battle unless you want to send them straight to the ocean floor.

The AirForce is also limited since PLAA hase only limited capacity in mid-air refueling shortening the time for engagement in battle. PLAA also have very little early warning radar capability and in-flight tactical response capabilities.

Again the technological gap between PLAA and JASDF is quite wide in favor of JASDF.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Samurai: "So PLAN's subs would be rendered useless unable to leave port."

Another Japan hater. I seem to recall a South Korean ship being sunk by as of yet unknown technology. You guys seem to think that an untrained, untested SDF will win some kind of war because they supposedly have better tech, but the truth of the matter is Japan would be done within a day of war. Their SDF would all be running for the hills, or surrendering to the Chinese flag. The US would not support Japan in a simple island skirmish, and Japan would fall quicker than a sack of potatoes. They'd then get angry at the US for losing the islands, but would not kick them out because a minute later they'd lose more.

"OT but as for the SK navy they are out numbered 10 to 1 by the JMSDF."

I still find it humorous you guys demanding war with SK and suggesting Japan would win. First off, Japan would never win in a war with SK -- the latter are tried and trained, the former would be announcing missile launches days before they happen because they don't understand the tech (and if you doubt me, check the last time NK launched a sattelite -- they thought it was launched the day before!). The only recent things we've heard about SDF troops are up-the-skirt photo shots and then turning over a dingy while dead drunk on a night out. They would be good for nothing in a fight. And there's no way in hell the US would ever join a fight against SK, not when they depend on them more than Japan.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japan had already brought it to the ICJ and Korea flatly turned down the dispute and said that the issue was not even up for discussion. Again, Japan, China and Korea have to see how to resolve this. Panetta is in a rock and a hard place. He has to be really careful how he deals with this situation. He can't really take sides and he can't talk of serious threats to Japan about this, unless China wants to invade and kill everyone, then that is a different story, but China has our debt and the US can't strong hold and talk smack to China, whether it's Obama or Romney, Now China can't fly off the handle either, but there are ways to resolve this issue without spilling blood, it just takes strong leadership on both sides, not to mention, everywhere in the world it's election time, every wonder about the timing of these events and how they correlate with each other. I don't think this all JUST happened when you look at the Chinese election coming, the US coming and with all the problems Japan has going on internally, is this all just a big coincidence? You decide?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The US would not support Japan in a simple island skirmish, and Japan would fall quicker than a sack of potatoes. They'd then get angry at the US for losing the islands, but would not kick them out because a minute later they'd lose more.

If war happened down there, Chinese navy would shoot big bullets and missiles almost all directions. If Chinese navy shot US planes flying up over there for military drill, what would the US think about it? The US jet fighter are flying all over Senkaku Archipelago all the time almost everyday for drill.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

smithinjapan

LOL it's SK threatening Japan not the otherway around.

There is a story about a US/SK joint military session in which the US military lectured to the SK counterpart about the possibilities surrounding a Nk invasion. At the end SK soldiers bored with the same lecture spites that they all know that the actual combat will be with the island nation and not the northern brothers.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Bass4funk, Japan should ask China to go to ICJ. USA will not step into this issue, they said it before.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue: "At the end SK soldiers bored with the same lecture spites that they all know that the actual combat will be with the island nation and not the northern brothers."

Link, please. My guess is you won't provide it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue: Oh wait! Aside from you being unable to provide proof for your little story, let me give you a case of not story but fact: There once was a PM who made a bunch of lies to get into power, he then winked at the US president (four Japanese PMs ago, I think) and said 'trust me' before turning around and saying the same to Okinawans. How can you possibly think Japan would ever win any battle that might occur when it cannot even dictate its own politics? Noda will be gone within a couple months, and the next PM will be gone within a year after that. Just imagine if war broke out -- you'd have 30 PMs in a month, and half of them repeats!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan should ask China to go to ICJ

It seems that China is very negative about ICJ, because it also has other disputes around South China Sea. Vietnam, Philippine and Malaysia,, would bring their disputes to ICJ if China brings Senkaku to ICJ. Tibet and Uighur might want to ask ICJ to be an independent state.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Pardon me Smithinjapan If you think that Japan doesn't have a Nuclear Arsenal then you're pretty wrong. I've seen the installations.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Chineses arent that stupid to start a war with Japan knowing the Japanese capabilities. Havent you heard that Japan is capable of building and delivering a Nuclear bomb anywhere in less than 3 months? Constitution doesn't allow nuclear weapons, but the missiles and installations are always there. Thats why Jaxa exists. Thats why the Nuclear simulation exists. Japan has weapons grade plutonium for 5000 BOMBS.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I kind of get the feeling the politicians on all sides whip their people into a frenzy to get support, then realize that they are at the mercy of the frenzy that they created.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There could be a war between China and Japan. But don't ever think that China will ever go Nuclear. Chinese has simply does not have the nerve to use it.

If there is one country who will use nuclear, it will be the US. The US has used nuclear in 1945. About to use in 1951-53 during the Korean War. And was almost about to use it in Vietnam war in the battle of Keh-San

And The US had perfected Nuclear missile, from the mini-bomb (can be used in 105-mm and 155-mm artillery shells of the howitzers) and up to the largest possible size

Japan, although has no war experience yet since 1945, She is well-armed. Although economically Japan is no longer super-rich, She offered 10 brand new patrol boats to the Philippines at a very friendly price and offered 2 ships of 1,200 ton displacement for ABSOLUTELY FREE. Unlike the old ships given by American to the Philippines, these 12 ships will be armed with missiles launchers and control systems for FREE also. What the Philippines would do is buy missiles only. So far, the Philippines had turned down the offer for the time being.... BUT THE IMPLICATIONS ARE CLEAR: Japan being the BIGGEST TRADE PARTNER of the PHILIPPINES is trying to help modernizing her poor armed forces because of their COMMON BAD ENEMY. =====> CHINA

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

overchan: "Pardon me Smithinjapan If you think that Japan doesn't have a Nuclear Arsenal then you're pretty wrong. I've seen the installations."

Well then they would be in violation of the constitution, wouldn't they? Is that something you're proud of? But please do provide us with your evidence.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

smithinjapan

It's called the de-facto nuclear arsenal where Japan has the technology to enrich the nuclear core and develop the trigger system, the plutonium core require with all the nuclear power plants and the sophsticated delivery system which you can see with the H2 rocket system as well as the X2 solid rocket prototypes.

Not one violates the constitution seperately and at the moment there is no need to orchestrate them into a system but can be within a month period if required.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

In any case, if we continue like this, an impending war could happen somewhere in the world, would it be a Sino-Japanese war an Azerbaidjani/Turkish-Karabaghian/Armenian war or an Israeli-Iranian war? Unless it is a 3rd world war where all these countries would be involved and with them automatically involve the U.S., Russia, the EU .. and the Arab-Muslim countries with their affiliates...?! I hope not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue smithinjapan It's called the de-facto nuclear arsenal where Japan has the technology to enrich the nuclear core and develop the trigger system,

Yeh yeh - but it's not Hollywood movie ... it's not so quick and easy and you need some tests and you need carrier and you need some tests for carrier...

You just have not enough time during real conflict...

So forget it...

PS You need a lot of other expensive and complicated items for nuclear attack...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

SamuraiBlue: How on earth do you think they'll have time to do that when they are glowing in the dark? Japan would nuke itself before it figured out how do launch one. Meanwhile, everyone else would be dead.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue: To be sure, the Japanese government MIGHT pass legislature to talk about the issue, after the PM quit due to a tummy ache and there was another election. Then when that person becomes PM it'll be time! -- to talk about thinking about things, of course.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Olegek

You can have a sub critical test and simulations utilizing the super computer like the US does and the deployment system is as I had posted before the H2 rocket or the X2 solid rockets prototypes, take your pick both are tested extensively might I add. As I had also wrote one month in development since most other components are already tested in other highly technological equipments including the Krypton firing mechanism used for simultanious triggering.

Basically it not that hard once you have the industrial and technical capabilities.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Got to ask why did many of the Chinese activists carry pictures of dear ol' Mao. Was he that beneficial in Chinese history?

Doubt it as his death toll nearly equalled the German toll of 11 Million(Yes, way more than the 6 million Jews died in the camps).

Talk about changed history books and 5 million disappeared into .....

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Japan to China: "Calm down, please. This is not an issue."

Japan to Korea: "We're going to do everything we can to make this as noisy an issue as possible."

Japan to Russia: "Waaaaah! Give it back!"

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Overchan, if your claim is true then Japan just become known as the " Asian Iran "...............China and possibly S Korea could act like isreal and demand the red line not to be crossed. You would like that, wouldn't you ? GET REAL, it's not normal to fantasize in public.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The disputable islands have been disputable for decades. Given the big picture both Japan and China need each other at least in economic terms, keeping the issue of the disputable islands low-profile suits both best at the moment, until both the two countries become mature enough to sit down and talk about it. But Japan opened the lid first. No matter what the strategic or tactical motivations behind it, this would and did provoke an ever more assertive China. Though some rioting behaviors from the Chinese mass are condemnatory, the intention of the Chinese gov. and people should not be mistaken here: they won't let go the islands. I would love to think the Japanese premier made his decision with a profound thinking, and if not, then he must be stupid enough to be voted out of his office.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

CaryC

No I believe it was the PRC fisherman that rammed the JCG ship and if you dig further it was PRC which remained slient for decades before oil was found within the EZZ that first stirred the pot.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

SamuraiBlue You can have a sub critical test and simulations utilizing the super computer like the US does and the deployment system is as I had posted before the H2 rocket or the X2 solid rockets prototypes, take your pick both are tested extensively might I add.

It's good but not enough - you need real tests (computer model NEVER 100 % correspond real life)

As I had also wrote one month in development since most other components are already tested in other highly technological equipments including the Krypton firing mechanism used for simultanious triggering.

May be for terrorist attack but not for real war...

Basically it not that hard once you have the industrial and technical capabilities.

You need special forces for this purpose

Special trained and equipped...it very long story...

In Russia - this is a very big&expensive industry

I think the same in China&US

Anyway China will NOT use nukes first

It strong enough in conventional armaments

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Talk about upping the ante.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What do you think he meant by “expanding”? I think he just said very softly that the US has Japan’s back, as it should. If I were the leaders of China I would be finding a way to cool this thing off. The Senkaku are and always will be Japanese. The US and the JSD will see that to it that this is so. Right now, in the mainland of the USA there is no love for China. The fact that they would attack our friend only makes one more reason many in the USA want to take on China.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Many seem to forget that Japan changed the status quo by "nationalizing" three of the Senkaku islets. Japan did this to take control of the situation and away from trouble-making Ishihara.

Ishihara started this round. Not China.

China is responding the a change in the status quo.

China is response is naturally, too much. But, of course, that is the nature of this kind of posturing.

Panetta here is simply telling every one involved here to keep their saber's rattling in their sabers. And not to unsheathe them. Meaning, China can have its protests, and the Black Trucks can rumble around Korea town and intimidate zainichi kankokujin all they want.

So long as nothing gets broken and no one gets hurt.

Once violence starts, then it gone to another level.

And no one here, not the US, not Japan, not Japan, not Korea, not Taiwan, nor anyone else wants that now.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

JTDanMan

Kinda too late now with various factories burnt down and shopping facilities being vandalized and looted on mainland China. Now those commie are stating that it is all Japan's fault and Japan needs to foot the bill.

What a joke.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Samurai Blue

Too late? Wow. That's one low bar you got there.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

JTDanManSep. 19, 2012 - 12:35AM JST

Many seem to forget that Japan changed the status quo by "nationalizing" three of the Senkaku islets. Japan did this >to take control of the situation and away from trouble-making Ishihara.

Wrong. Japan nationalized hje islands to keep Ishihara from building onnthem, an act that would have upset China. In retrospect they should hasve let him build on them sijnce it made no difference.

Ishihara started this round. Not China.

Wrong. Chinbese activists have been illegally attempting to land on the Senbklakus since 1996. Ishihara never said anything about the Senkakus until April 2012.

China is responding the a change in the status quo.

No they sare advancing their military and territorial expansion agenda, against Japan, Vietnam, Phillipibes, Malaysia etc.

China is response is naturally, too much. But, of course, that is the nature of this kind of posturing.

Natural only to an aggerssor nation that feels it can "take" the East and South China Seas.

Panetta here is simply telling every one involved here to keep their saber's rattling in their sabers. And not to >unsheathe them. Meaning, China can have its protests, and the Black Trucks can rumble around Korea town and >intimidate zainichi kankokujin all they want.

Japanese nationalists in the black trucks are micoscopic compated to the Right-Wing Nationalists in China smashing cars, restaurants embassys, even attacking Japanese civilians.

So long as nothing gets broken and no one gets hurt. Once violence starts, then it gone to another level.

Already has.

And no one here, not the US, not Japan, not Japan, not Korea, not Taiwan, nor anyone else wants that now.

Then China needs to stop behaving like it does.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So, let me get this strait. The earliest records show that China owned these islands as early as the 15th century. Japan anexed them in the 1800's, as in just took them from china with out permision. So what is all the argument about? China legally owned them first, so China should own them now.

So if you think Japan can just take things from others when ever they want by force and its legal... I recommend China just take the islands from japan by force settling the argument permanently and that should be legal too. Japan is no match for China in a war, it would be over quick and easy. I also doubt that the US would help much in this particular situation for two reasons: 1) China has the only LEGAL claim to the islands. 2) The US will not risk nuclear war over something this trivial. When was the last time the US went toe to toe with another nuclear power? That would be Russia. Since then we have avoided armed conflict with such nations, for example: North Korea, Pakistan, and Iran. Instead, im sure the US would force a peaceful resolution, such as "China is rightful owners of the Islands, Japan deal with it."

Saying japan is the "gracious" party here is stupid. The "gracious" thing for japan to do in this situation would be to give China back what is rightfully thiers. In turn this would totally deflate the conflict and bring peace back to the area. This would be the best solution, but I doubt the Japanese government is moral and right enough to come up with this conclution.

In closing I just want to say, I love Japan. But Japan is screwing up BIG on this one. Hope this gets resolve peacfully, for Japans sake.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So, let me get this strait. The earliest records show that China owned these islands as early as the 15th century

.No.

Japan anexed them in the 1800's, as in just took them from china with out permision

No.

So what is all the argument about?

The mere fact that China did none of the above which for some unknown reason is dismissed by most posters.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

lol @ negelboy, ignoreing history... did you take japanese defined history classes? All joking aside, do a bit more reading from multiple / non-biases sources.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

lol @ negelboy, ignoreing history... did you take japanese defined history classes? All joking aside, do a bit more reading from multiple / non-biases sources.

I don't think Japan teaches about Senkaku in history classes. How about you offer proof?

As to mine, you can click on my handle name.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If Japan loses the Senkaku due to military pressure from China, there will be war in Asia. I hope the U.S. can see this. Has people forgotten the territorial expansionism by Germany in WWI and WWII? China is trying to follow the same historic pattern of territorial expansion. Did you know that China actually loves Hitler? In China, Hitler isn’t known for the Holocaust, but rather for achieving social stability with a very high human cost. “In general, they refer to him as very "lihai", very hardcore, someone who is strong, powerful,”

Taiwan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei will all lose territory to China. S.Korea will be hit by N.Korea. Has anyone been to Tibet lately? China excluded all foreign journalists and diplomats from the Himalayan region as they systematically torture and execute dissidents?

Do you think Japan and the rest of these nations are going to stand around and do nothing? Panetta is ignorant and doesn't realize the severity of the situation. If they don't take sides correctly and get involved you are looking at the beginnings of WWIII.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Russia, China, and Korea, all three countries have dispute island issue with Japan. Why? All of these complains result from Japan's war history. Japan made too much mess in this world and it is the time for Japan to pay for the debts.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Russia, China, and Korea, all three countries have dispute island issue with Japan. Why? All of these complains result from Japan's war history. Japan made too much mess in this world and it is the time for Japan to pay for the debts

two atomic bombs wasn't enough? Also, China arbitrarily claims many territories as their own while at the same time killing off minorities that dare to raise their voices. Take a good hard look at your own beloved China, its not as rosy as the brainwashing leads the people to believe.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Tokiyo

Two atomic bombs wasn't enough? Also, China arbitrarily claims many territories as their own while at the same time killing off minorities that dare to raise their voices. Take a good hard look at your own beloved China, its not as rosy as the brainwashing leads the people to believe.

Hear! Hear!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Andrew BrooksSep. 19, 2012 - 05:12AM JST So, let me get this strait. The earliest records show that China owned these islands as early as the 15th century. >Japan anexed them in the 1800's, as in just took them from china with out permision. So what is all the argument >about? China legally owned them first, so China should own them now.

That's not straight at all. The PRC never owned the islands. PRC maps from the 1960s show them as being Japanese on the other side of the borderline, China is merl;y trying to steal the islands just like they are stealing islands from all other Asian nations.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Senkaku islands were part of the Ryukyu Kingdom, which in its turn is part now of Japan (belonging to Okinawa-ken), which in its turn is part of East-Asia, which in its turn is part of Planet Earth ! War will benefit no one in the short run, but it should make the leaders of East-Asia and USA (as the colonizer of Post-WWII Japan) think how to create prosperity and peace in East-Asia! For intellectuels it is obvious that an East-Asian Union (like the European Union) is the best way to create this prosperity, sadly a lot of East-Asians (especially some of the male Homo sapiens species) think with their testosterone instead of their brains !

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There is no Territorial dispute over these Islands. We took them from their countries with our Military. We lost the WAR. Well now have to give them back to their legal owners. Any thing we got thru WW2 we have to give back. America included them as ours because they knew this would cause a problem in the future, like the British did with India and the Middle East. These right wing people are funded by the U.S. Military. This is all American policy to cause problems in the area so they can sell us out dated military equipment to our government.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@nigelboy - I never said it did teach a bout the islands. I was making a joke about the real issue of the Japanese school system having a past of changing or LEAVING out key peices of history that may color japans history alittle dark. I get this information from my Japanese wife, many japanese national friends and my experience living in japan for 14 years. There for i would'nt say I know nothing about it either. Also, I believe "no" is not a valid point....just a belief, so go easy on me, lol!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Ossanamerica & gregoryharuko - There are records from the Ming dynasty that have the diaoyu islands on charts and claim them under the dynastys imperial rule in the 14th century. This was before they appeared on Ryukyu charts in the 15th cenury. Not trying to fight, just letting you know that this conflict goes that far back.

With this information, I just think that China does have an argument. Also since the islands were not sold, traded, or given to Japan formally, I think that is the real issue. As for as the PRC maps, they are not enough to dictate ownership, The group of people making the maps may not have looked into the fact that the islands belonges to the Chinese since the 14th century. Instead they may have just went off of what they knew from thier life time, that being - Japan owned them since the annex in the 1800's.

China has never had the power to dispute that until now, and that is why we are seeing them take a major role in shaping asia now. Its like a kid that was bullied his young life. He goes and works out, gets really big, and then comes back for some revenge. Japan was the bully, now China is back, bigger, and ready to start pushing back.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

weak global market demand for .japan and china products are covered with this war.

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This are all initiated by a powerful FORCE that you and I knows who. I am sure no countries wanted to deal with another world war cause it will be the end of mankind with all those nukes flying and exploding around us. It's a no win solution for human kind just for some litlle islands they are fighting for. I am still wondering why until now the assigned world organiztaion who handles territorial disputes like this are muted and toothless to help settled this issues. Where are these amoebas. IMO this conflicts are just intrigues made by that FORCE you and I know for their business gains and profits. Japan is now equipping their military with new Radars and planes. What for? My guess is good as yours. China have already built their defense base in the disputed Spratley islands according to reports gathered by the Philippines. Another claimants which have all the rights because of the territorial boundaries and laws of the sea that China doesn't honor. Btw, just a piece of advice to the Chinese Officials, please stop these threats and provocations cuz it will lead to annihilation of mankind. But if you really got the balls to end planet earth, then what are you blubbing about. Attack.

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I'm rather shocked at how little those living in Japan are informed of the documents, maps, geographical and legal case put forth by the Chinese side. Google is your friend. Of course when it comes down to intense personal dislike, nothing from China would be acceptable for consideration. Actually, if not for WW2, there were no big historical disputes between China & Japan,..., except China helped Korea during the Imjim Wars but Japan was an aggressor and Korea was China's ally then. Many Chinese believe that by not observing the Cairo & Potsdam Declarations limiting Japanese sovereignty to pre-1800s Japan, and handing over administration, not sovereignty, of the islands to Japan, the US planted a mine in Sino-Japanese relations, ensuring that Asia will not come together to form its own economic union like the EU. I actually support Japan normalizing itself, as long as it is truly free to conduct its own foreign policies. I suspect it would be more conciliatory towards its neighbours, unlike what it is now under a predominantly Rightwing government propped up by the US hawks and Neo-Cons.

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LUIZ /BRAZI Peace and friendship are the best examples Japan and China should show the world about the sensaku islands transfoming these islands in Tourist Resorts and enviromental preservetion region for the sake of both countries ; Japan and China must take advice with Brazil´s President Dilma Roussef and not sit around at a round table with Barack Obama !!! God bless Japan and China with eternal peace.

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Luiz / Brazil Seek Peace not war !

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