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Asiana plane hit antenna on runway, footage shows

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In the 2013 Asiana crash, the Instrument Landing System(ILS) at San Francisco was out of service and inexplicable pilot error led to impact short of the runway. In Tuesday's incident, the Asiana plane impacted short of the runway, smashing the ILS at Hiroshima. Asiana has severe credibility issues if this incident is again found to be pilot error.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Probably a good time to get in on Asiana stock.

In incidents like this, panicky sellers often cause an overcorrection that sorts itself out over the next few quarters.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Nessie, you must be reading Warren Buffet. Buy when the market is fearful and sell when greedy

The maket almost always overreacts to news.

However, you have to worry about the company losing its but and liquidating. It only works if Asiana's business doesn't get killed and ceases to exist.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

zettaiE, the ILS is at the other (west) end of the runway. Last night the captain approached from the east.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

nandakandamanda

Flight OZ162 flew a westerly approach to runway 28 so you are correct that the plane was approaching from the east. However, the ILS LOC antenna that the flight struck is located 325 meter short of the threshold of runway 28. That's on the eastern end of the runway. For this aircraft to be flying so low as to hit an object 6 meters tall 325 meters short of the runway it was waaaaaaaaay below glide path. Judging by the fact that the aircraft evidently touched down tail first, the collision with the antenna is probably what made the pilot realize how short of the runway he was and made him pull up and remain airborne long enough to make the runway. Without the collision with the ILS-LOC antenna there's a good chance the aircraft might have touched down prior to the runway threshold resulting in a crash and a whole lot of fatalities. Short of the ILS actively providing the aircraft false glide slope info, I don't see how this isn't going to be another case of pilot error.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Let me see: the co-pilot saw the antenna, but didn't dare challenge the honourable captain?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The pilots Asiana airlines are either are too inexperienced or rely too heavily on guided instrument approach without knowing how to check for visual accuracy and altitude estimates in case their system is in error. In either case this type of incident should not be happening as the ILS was functioning properly and the airtower was no doubt asking them for final approach altitude confirmation. Yet the pilot and co pilot still proceeded at lower than the appropriate approach altitude.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Still using antenna in Jaoan.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

"Cabin attendants were in such a panic and I thought ‘we are going to die,’” a woman told Japanese networks late Tuesday."

Cabin attendants are never supposed to be in a panic...

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Serrano easier said that done. Love to see you not panic when you think your going to die in a plane crash. The fact that flight attendants are expected to not panic is dumb in itself. It's always more scary sitting back and not really knowing whats going on!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Again, these pilots ignored a lot of the instruments at their disposal in order to cause such an accident. This seems like a systematic lack of basic training. Night with light rain and at least 6000m visibility (as the METAR is saying)? There's no excuse.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

We still don't know exactly what happened. Some passenger says fire and smoke were seen 5 minutes before landing. 5 minutes is a long time for an airplane preparing for landing. If it were true, it is possible that the pilots put the plane on fire down in bad weather with no one killed. IF that was the case I want to say good job to the pilots.

But again, we don't know what happened yet.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

toshiko

Still using antenna in Jaoan What's your point?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

serrano: "Cabin attendants are never supposed to be in a panic..."

They're not robots, serrano. And in any case it's one woman's comment, and I'm willing to bet at least SHE was (rightfully) in a panic, so you can't really take it as proof that all the flight attendants were running around screaming or anything.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

I'd be interested to know where these guys got their Flight Training. I heard stories from my uncle in Seattle ( who used to work for Boeing ), that Korean Pilots would be flying around Seattle doing Flight Training speaking amoungst THEMSELVES, in Korean, rather than in their MANDATORY requirement of ONLY speaking English while in Controlled Airspace...OMG.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Nessie, you must be reading Warren Buffet. Buy when the market is fearful and sell when greedy

Not just reading. I put my money where my mouth is, and it's been working so far.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

During the investigation into the San Francisco crash, Asiana and the South Korean Pilots Association all but screamed that the crash was caused by overly complicated Boeing automated devices. I guess Airbus can expect that same kind of misdirection by Asiana and the South Korean Pilots Association for this crash. The truth is that, regardless of the level of automation, the pilot in command is responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft. One of the NTSB recommendations from the San Francisco crash was that if the automation is too complicated, it is the pilot's responsibility to un-complicate things by turning off increasing levels of automation until the pilot is comfortable with what's happening.

“Asiana Airlines apologizes for causing concern to the passengers and the people over the accident,” it said in a press statement.

I certainly hope this is a mis-translation. If not then Asiana appears to be ignoring all the injuries that the accident caused. The passenger's "concern" should pale in comparison to the passenger's injuries.

in which a Boeing 777 clipped a sea wall with its landing gear, then crashed and burst into flames.

LOL. AFP once again resorts to hyperbole. The 777 did not "burst into flames". A dismounted jet engine caught fire and because it was resting against the fuselage, the fire eventually breached the fuselage and spread in the cabin.

In the 2013 Asiana crash, the Instrument Landing System(ILS) at San Francisco was out of service and inexplicable pilot error led to impact short of the runway.

The ILS in the San Francisco crash was a non-factor for two reasons: It was daylight with 10 mile visibility so visual acquisition of the runway was not a problem and; the 777 displays glide slope information on the multi-function display based on GPS data in addition to the "normal" localizer/glide slope display, so even with the ILS down for relocation, the pilots had valid glide slope data.

Still using antenna in Jaoan.

Japan, and every other country that uses ILS systems. If you're using a radio wave to do something, you must use an antenna.

Again, these pilots ignored a lot of the instruments at their disposal in order to cause such an accident. This seems like a systematic lack of basic training.

We don't know WHAT the pilots did or didn't do, nor do we know what caused the accident other than the obvious fact that the plane was too low at one point in the approach. It is folly to try and speculate on the cause until the investigation is completed.

I heard stories from my uncle in Seattle ( who used to work for Boeing ), that Korean Pilots would be flying around Seattle doing Flight Training speaking amoungst THEMSELVES, in Korean, rather than in their MANDATORY requirement of ONLY speaking English while in Controlled Airspace...OMG

The requirement for English is when talking to ATC only. I know of no requirement for the flight deck crew to use English amongst themselves while in flight. As the San Francisco crash showed, investigators have almost no difficulty translating foreign languages taken from the CVR.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

“Asiana Airlines has immediately set up a response team to cope with the aftermath."

Cleaning up the cabin?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

smith, you don't have to be a robot to remain calm in emergencies. That's what they are trained to do. It's part of their job.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

'Careened', not 'careered'!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

jj1067, was this from another news source? Can you keep us updated?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Fadamor, for your information, at the one of FAA's test pilot's request, Boeing has improved the logic of the autothrottle system for the 787, before the SF crash (but failed to do the same change on the essentially similar 777). The Asiana pilots' complaints that the autothrottle (A/T) does not work as they've imagined it should would is totally BS. Their complaint was that the A/T won't hold the constant speed in the HOLD mode, but will do so in other modes. This is of course clearly documented by Boeing...After the San Francisco crash the NTSB has recommended Boeing some improvements for better intuitiveness of their Autothrottle system.

Like I said, even so, there is no excuse for Asiana allowing crappy pilots with crappy training flying... And yes, Airbus systems are totally different, yet the Asiana managed to crash one in an almost similar way...this has got to be a new record...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

At this moment Hiroshima Airport is still in lock down. Teams of investigators are still trying to determine the cause of the accident. Let's not crucify the pilots, airline, craft for the mishap before the results of the investigation become known. I'll just add that fortunately there were no fatalities.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Wonders what were the weather conditions at the time of the accident? I need a lot more data to even think about the cause of the crash. As for Asiana pilots they should be presumed to have done their duty until proven they were at fault.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

One thing I have learned by working for an airline is that passengers make very poor witnesses. The woman claiming that the flight attendant was in a panic was probably mad because the FA wouldn't let her take her carry-on down the slide.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wonders what were the weather conditions at the time of the accident? I need a lot more data to even think about the cause of the crash.

There's a weather report at the bottom of the page in this link. Probably as much detail as the average layman (regarding aviation) could usefully use to form an opinion.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20150414-0

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Latest news, reported on the networks. Thick fog severely limiting visibility may have forced the pilot to over correct altitude.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

ArtistAtLargeApr. 16, 2015 - 09:43AM JST

"jj1067, was this from another news source? Can you keep us updated?"

It was from yesterday's FNN Fuji TV news. But I don't know if it were true. People on that plane might have felt 10 seconds as 5 minutes.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Fadamor, for your information, at the one of FAA's test pilot's request, Boeing has improved the logic of the autothrottle system for the 787, before the SF crash (but failed to do the same change on the essentially similar 777).

I was already aware of that. I've read the entire NTSB report on the San Francisco crash, including all the ancillary documentation.

The Asiana pilots' complaints that the autothrottle (A/T) does not work as they've imagined it should would is totally BS.

I agree, but probably not for the reason you think. It was testified during the NTSB investigation that the during the pilot's "crossover" training from the 747, the fact that "the speed-keeping function of the autothrottle would be disabled if Flight Level Change (FLCH) was selected" had been presented to the students and was in the notes of another student in that training class. The pilot had been taught about this possibility but had apparently forgotten.

Asiana and the Pilots Association then complained that the documentation in the Flight Manual was too ambiguous. The NTSB agreed and recommended that Boeing make it clearer in the manuals that the speed-keeping function is disabled in certain modes.

Like I said, even so, there is no excuse for Asiana allowing crappy pilots with crappy training flying...

And like I said, trying to assign blame before the investigation is complete is pure folly.

Latest news, reported on the networks. Thick fog severely limiting visibility may have forced the pilot to over correct altitude.

Until the FDR and the CVR are analyzed, there's no point in trying to guess at a cause.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Thanks jj1067.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

trying to assign blame before the investigation is complete is pure folly.

I have read that report myself, a while ago. If I remember correctly, pilots themselves declared that they felt afraid of the manual (and VFR) landings. That is a very strong statement towards the quality of training, as the manual landings (including proper parameter and situation monitoring) is the most basic thing a student first learns... And coming short of the runway in a properly functioning plane means usually coming at a too low speed... well in any case, I'm looking forward to the report of this crash and the reasoning behind...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Just to clarify my earlier post, Hiroshima runway ILC is set up one-way, for planes to approach from the west. This is the normal landing pattern there. Planes can, and do, land from the other end if the conditions are suitable, but without direct ILC help.

Part of the ILC system, ie the ILC-L (locator), is set up across the far end, off the east end of the runway. This is what the plane hit, when given permission to land from the east.

There were four minutes in which visibility suddenly dropped from 1,700 meters to 750 meters, and then rapidly to 500-300 meters. Could the tower have foreseen this? Should the captain have gone around? These now seem to be the crucial questions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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