Boeing, U.S. Navy deliver plan to equip ASDF with Super Hornets

Wow, 20 aircraft for Australia. So big.

Well, now we know why those 787's were so late. Military development is much more profitable than the private sector.

With the government you definitely get paid. With commercial airlines, you never know, even if the ink is dry.

Japan should buy em. The yen is real strong right now. Get ready to rumble with China. Start a military buildup of your own. Once Japan has enough of them maybe the U.S can start moving our forces home.

One thing though. Let Boeing build them. Those Japanese F15s built here in Japan go down sometimes. There was a story about that not too long ago.

When it comes to safety, American made is best.

I predict Japan will buy them. The Eurofigher seems to be best suited technologically, but the political priorities are more important.

It is ridiculous to be spending lavishly on fighter planes and it's frightening to think what purpose they serve internationally except to kill people. Imagine what these billions could do if education, scientific research, small business development and the arts had any importance. It's just a utter waste of taxpayers money especially during such economic times. So the military buildup continues and it's all about the threat of stability in Asia, balance of power, control, greed and because human beings just can't trust each other and live in peace. What can you say? Since the companies have probably submitted their bids, I would like to see Japan purchase the Euro fighter for its air to air and air to ground good thrust and altitude plus it is combat ready, tested with a track record. Japan should also be thinking about how its industry will benefit. Euro fighters are offering Japan far more than the American options. Therefore Japan will have the full-software code and be able to partake in future upgrades to the aircraft.

Boeing is just trying hard to sell off a few of their aging F-18 that nobody else wants. The US Navy is already replacing it with the F-35 which Japan has already invested in as well. The F-18 is severley outgunned by the old F15, and the modern F22, F35, and Euro fighter and everyone knows it.

Exactly Novenchama.

It is utterly ridiculous.

The only people that profit from this are the companies that build the planes and furnish the supplies.

great killing machines. hope they never have to use them, hope they serve the purpose of "deterrent" and that it stays that way. but then it's so damn stupid to spend so much money on killing machines, when a single one of those airplanes is probably worth enough to buy some decent housing for lots of people still loving in shelters from the earthquake-tsunami-atomic plant disaster.

apologies, should read: "...enough to buy some decent housing for lots of people still living in shelters..."

Novenachama

I would like to see Japan purchase the Euro fighter for its air to air and air to ground good thrust and altitude plus it is combat ready, tested with a track record.

Euro fighter A2G is good? Hardly. Almost like the designers tacked on the ground-attack role as an afterthought. Definitely not a mature capability for the Typhoon.

Combat ready with a tested track record? Sure, if you consider dropping ONE bomb on a parked truck a proven track record. Hell, the Typhoon only just flew it's first operational combat sortie THIS year.

And let's not mention the general shortage of parts for this bird and it's only been in service for, what, 7-8 years?

This is more complicated than it seems and participation of the US Navy strengthen my speculation. The Navy has plans of introducing the F-35 to replace the aging F-18 A~C but the F-18E/F are not scheduled to be decommissioned until 2025. The Navy does not have the money to fund a replacement program and Boeing is required to fund it on their own. Japan also needs to replace their F-15J and F-2 around 2020 and have already announce the i3 fighter concept.

To make a long story short I believe the Navy wants Japan to provide funding to Boeing to co-develop the next F/A-XX concept in exchange for Navy's endorsement to the US government not to force Japan into buying US built planes and have Japan select whatever she wants.

In a long term view it will be beneficial for all parties. (excluding LM that is)

The Typhoon/ Eurofighter has been a disaster with the UK Royal Air Force, who now rue getting rid of the Tornados, Buccaneers and Harriers in order to be able to afford them. Good performance over a short distance, meaning that they can't fight effectively without a tankering capability; maintenance intensive, full of add-on packages to do the jobs that should have been built in from the start; and short of parts despite the fact that UK's own BAE is a primary manufacturer of it. The Brits were drooling over the war in LIbya to advertise what it could do, despite the fact that a Cruise Missile from one of their old Navy subs sitting in the Med could do the job at a fraction of the price, or even a scrapped Harrier off one of their now scrapped carriers. With the Typhoon you are not just paying for the plane, you are paying to keep 1,000s of BAE employees in jobs, and keep their skills and experience.

Imagine what these billions could do if education, scientific research, small business development and the arts had any importance.

Exactly Novenachama just think if the billions of $'s were used properly there would be no need for war or war machines, thing is though some people only understand violence and do not repsond to education, science or the arts unfortunately.

Novenchama:

" t is ridiculous to be spending lavishly on fighter planes "

What is ridiculous is to suggest that a large, wealthy nation in a contested neighbourhood can simply pretend to be a pacifist paradise without any kind of defense.

In the real world, such a policy is possible for New Zealand, but for hardly for anybody else.

Instead of increasing taxes, scrap this ASAP! It's a killing machine....what we need is things that produce life giving things in the devastated area! Take an example of Switserland and it's neutrality! After ww2 germany and japan did very well! Why... They couldn't have a army!

Almost like the designers tacked on the ground-attack role as an afterthought. Definitely not a mature capability for the Typhoon.

It is an interesting point - Although the argument could be made that ground attack is not appropriate as that wouldn't be "self defence", then I started to wonder how to define self defence!! What criteria are these RFP's being set against?

No national loyalties being displayed here! ;)

Hugo Kempener:

" Take an example of Switserland and it's neutrality! "

Switzerland is also armed to the teeth, with national draft, a military rifle in the house of every male citizen, and several times the military expense per capita of Japan.

Is that the example you are thinking of? Neutrality, of course, comes with a price tag.

Take an example of Switserland and it's neutrality!

My god, another misinformed person who seems to assume that a neutral state is one that's unarmed. Sorry to correct you but Switzerland is pretty well armed and has a robust system of conscription. Despite being so small that you can fly across it in about 10 minutes it still maintains several squadrons of F-18 fighters. Yup, F-18s. As WilliB says above, you have to be rather well armed in order to maintain neutrality, ESPECIALLY in this (Japan's) neighborhood.

gyouza

One of the top concerns of the JSDF is the defense of Japan's outlying islands. No, not the contested ones but inhabited Japanese islands that are isolated from the main islands and very vulnerable to invasion by a foreign force. These islands would be critical in any military conflict that's brought to Japan's doorstep and the retaking of such islands once they have been captured by hostile forces is one scenario where the ground attack capabilities of an ASDF fighter would be need prior to an amphibious assault.

In case you don't know, Japan is not actually "buying" and importing the military jets. They are buying the license to build them in Japan. Japan shifted to license production back in 1955. Only a few have been imported from the USA since then.

Do we really need to spend so much $$$$$$$$$$$ on all of these jet fighters??

Bend over and take them, Japan...

Commodore Perry learned that the best way to get anything done in Japan was to push them.

Either Japan gets some more protection (I dont care if its a hornet or a eurofighter) or stop taking English classes and start taking Chinese language. What better target than one that cant defend itself.

@ Elbuda, yep it takes all that money to buy good equipment and Japan can afford it especially with a strong yen, hornets are a discount. Unlike our south of the border neighbors who cant even field a decent military to take out drug lords :D jajaja

Novenachama, how can Japan do nothing? China is developing new aircraft, Japan has to face the threat from China, North Korea and Russia. Russia has thrown away democracy as the next president election for Russia will be Putin, Putin or perhaps Putin. The opposition is not even allowed to run or meet in Russia. He has just harassed the only possible person to beat him. No the threat is out there, Japan has no other recourse or beg the Americans for more American military.

". Once Japan has enough of them maybe the U.S can start moving our forces home.... Those Japanese F15s built here in Japan go down sometimes. "

NET Ninja@, I don't think you realise what you're saying. First off Japan has a very potent fighter force, those F-15's are the latest upgrades. They've got over 200. Yes China is building up, but it can't field anything to match those planes. The so called "stealth" plane is untested, and I haven't seen serious analysts fret too much. It's a lot of PR and image building.

As to suggesting that Japan should start an ARMS RACE think of what you're asking for. BTW, Japan has a very serious navy; they never "needed" the US to protect them. Ohh, poor little babies can't defend themselves. Mate, they conquered half of Asia and are the world's number 7th spender on military gear. THey've got more warships than th UK, and can develop nukes in a very short time . No kool aid on "Jaoan loves peace". I dont believe it anymore than I thin China wants peace.

BTW, the F-18's aren't exactly the latest military planes either. But again, these are new panes (or built under contract) and field recent gear. The Chinese don't have anything to match even 20.

beangry

BTW, Japan has a very serious navy; they never "needed" the US to protect them.

Are you serious? Ever had anything to do with the JMSDF? Do you know why their ships are so beautifully rust-free and perfectly maintained? Because they don't spend prolonged periods at sea and when they do go underway they hardly leave cell phone range. It's almost a stretch to call them a 'blue water navy' if you know what that means.

F18 design is very dated and old, regardless of the new update..

Considering China is developing their own crap bucket jet which may possibly out maneuver the F18.. I seriously think its not the wisest choice of jet..

@anglootaku and Weasel: maneuverability and performance are no longer of ultimate importance in air-to-air warfare. I'll take down the Chengdu and Sukhoi with a B-52 if I can see them and get weapons on them first.

You, guys forget, that Japan buys things to "have", not to fight. Everything must look kawaii. For fighting, Japan has the US with Raptors.

The latest F18 variant is current use by the USN and allies like Australia would be the correct purchase by the JASDF to close the "gap" until the next generation of fighters are ready. Additionally the air to ground capabilities cooincide with the JSDFs shift towards protecting the southern islands,and perhaps a small step forward towards perhaps ultimately small pocket carriers with VTOLs. China and it's expansionist agenda can go suck an egg.

USNinJapan2, understand what you are saying but the Maritime SDF is a defense only force. About the ships being spotless it is traditional. If you want to see ships that never leave harbor, that is the majority of the Russian Navy. They also are rusting at their moorings.

Is Japan paying the USA for the F18's or is it another gift from the USA taxpayers?

The JMSDF was never created to be a Blue Water Navy. In fact, legally it's not even a "navy" since the JDSF itself was created as an extension of the police force in order to get around Article 9. Of course the creation of Japan's officially non-military military was entirely at the prodding of the United States in the face of the Korean War.

Japan really needs to amend their constitution to allow for a larger hand in their defense. Even though I'm American, relying on America for the bulk of your defense is not such a good idea in these times... not because America is unreliable, but because America really can't afford to be the world's police force anymore. There already are calls by members of congress to cut military spending, with the majority of the calls aimed at closing our bases overseas (including Japan).

As has been pointed out regarding Switzerland, even staunchly neutral countries require a strong military to keep others from testing their resolve. Japan needs to do the same.

Mitsubishi makes a better jet than any American one. it is a vertical take off one, does 3.5 mach. the only problem the latest American jets have a laser that can shoot down another jet 240 miles away. we would have to fit this system into our jet. But remember the chinese can shoot down a jet doing 18,00 miles per hour. So why do we need any?? Akio

13akio13, it is no trick to shoot down a sat in a stable orbit. The trick is to hit one that is maneuvering and or has defenses. Second no Jet today flies at mach 3.5 (think the blackbird might have) at least for long and none at 18,000 mph. The reason for the new Jets is so Japan can defend herself from China, North Korea and Russia. All three are foes and regularly threaten Japan.

These islands would be critical in any military conflict that's brought to Japan's doorstep and the retaking of such islands once they have been captured by hostile forces is one scenario where the ground attack capabilities of an ASDF fighter would be need prior to an amphibious assault.

Ironically no branch of the GSDF is trained for amphibious assault. Admit that's the role of the USMC stationed in Okinawa.

Ironically no branch of the GSDF is trained for amphibious assault. Admit that's the role of the USMC stationed in Okinawa.

It's not ironic at all unless of course the SDF was planning on assaulting some prefecture here in Japan. Just who and where would the SDF need the capability?

The shift in defense on the part of the JSDF to protect the southern islands has included JGSDF training with the USMC at San Diego. You can rest assured that Amphibious Assault, capability for the purpose of retaking an enemy occupied island is a top prority.

"beangry

BTW, Japan has a very serious navy; they never "needed" the US to protect them.

Are you serious? Ever had anything to do with the JMSDF? Do you know why their ships are so beautifully rust-free and perfectly maintained? Because they don't spend prolonged periods at sea and when they do go underway they hardly leave cell phone range. It's almost a stretch to call them a 'blue water navy' if you know what that means."

No need to insult just because you disagree. The Japanese are perfectly capable of maintaining ships at sea fir extended periods, even if they have a few old ones.

The US doesn't 'protect' the Japanese anymore than it protects Afghanistan. All you want is your bases to face China. Not all if believe that nonsense they tell new recruits.

beangrySep. 27, 2011 - 09:03AM JST... The US doesn't 'protect' the Japanese anymore than it protects Afghanistan. All you want is your bases to face China. Not all if believe that nonsense they tell new recruits.

Hmmm..., interesting. I haven't thought about it from that angle. It kinda clicks somehow.

@ yuriOtani

"Novenachama, how can Japan do nothing? China is developing new aircraft, Japan has to face the threat from China, North Korea and Russia. Russia has thrown away democracy as the next president election for Russia will be Putin, Putin or perhaps Putin. The opposition is not even allowed to run or meet in Russia. He has just harassed the only possible person to beat him. No the threat is out there, Japan has no other recourse or beg the Americans for more American military."

That is why they always exaggerate the 'china threat theory' in US and Japanese media. They know that people like you will get scared and suddenly stop aski f for a uS military withdrawal. There is no threat from N Korea. Sad that Japan, the very nation that occupied and killed tens of thousands of Koreans, gets away with presenting themselves as a victim. N Korea isn't nice, but militarily speaking it cannot do anything to Japan. It nukes lack an effective delivery system, and such an act would be suicidal. But you are living in fantasy world created by right wing Japanese nationalists.

Don't even start with russia or china. Thy could pose a treat (Russians) but hy don't want war. The chibse aren't even close to matching the firepower the US and Japanese have on these islands. He Chinese would be fools to allow themselves to be outgunned by a Japan that killed over 10 million of their people in WWII.

beangry, right wing Japanese Nationalists blah, Japan does not have the capability to do offensive action against anyone. However as I write this, Chinese and Russian IRBM's sit waiting for launch orders for objectives within Japan. During the height of the cold war, I use to wonder if today we were all going to die. Depending on the launch sequence we are from 15 minutes to 45 minutes before the warheads arrive. People talk about missiles but it is really just the warheads. Korea unlike Japan does have bombers and these are a threat to Japan. About China not being a threat, I can not get the picture of all of those Chinese yelling "death to Japanese". Am happy these days I will not be one of the first to know about a sneak Chinese and or Russian attack.

Another fiasco like the Mitsubishi F-2A ! Japan has nothing to choose after the rejection of F-22A request! The desire of acquiring a 'Stealthy fighter' dream is heading further and further! Because japan is dreaming!!

YuiriOtani,

I dont want to ridicule you. If you fear N Korean planes bombing Japan into he stone age (or delivering nukes), then your fears have no basis in reality. Again, you right wig nationalists present Japan as weak. It's all hogwash. It'd n korea that is worried about he huge US equipped Japanese military and thousands of US personnel, capable of obliterating N Korea - as the war games predict/ the only one with any to fear is S Korea because of the norh's artillery. Again the norh's wouldn't use it because it's suicidal, and the military count on it's propaganda gettIng Gus likyou to freak out over a nation so poor it can't feed its own people. I pity you. You remind me of those texans who feared Nicaragua was going to invade the US in he 1980's. Propaganda is potent.

Nice! Early Xmas presents!

YuriOtaniSep. 27, 2011 - 09:58AM JST ...However as I write this, Chinese and Russian IRBM's sit waiting for launch orders for objectives within Japan. During the height of the cold war, I use to wonder if today we were all going to die....

I see, we are still there...

"Have some Wheaties, don't be meanies. Russia, Russia, lay that missile down

Ya-ya-ya-ya" :)))))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqm77WB-4sE

Speaking of jets, Japan made a good drama, the first few episodes centered on the whole Marubeni/fighter jet scandal during the of the 1970s-80s, the drama is called 'Fumo Chitai' (Barren Land) its a great drama to watch http://www.fujitv.co.jp/fumouchitai/index.html

Sure the Stealthy Chendu J-20A is going to turkey shoots these unstealthy flying rubbish known as super hornets out of the skies...by the way, Japan's defense problems wasnt her southern isles,that was outof questions but the air superiority of Tokyo!

just-a-guy

You seem to really like your country's newest prototype, the J-20, which is a marvelous piece of reverse engineering thanks to your spying Indian friend. But perhaps you should save your trash talking for when it becomes operational in about 6-7 years. BTW, how many hours, I mean minutes, has the J-20 actually flown? And also you need to realize that the J-20 isn't really a fighter designed for A2A engagements with other fighter aircraft. It's a big bird that's built for range and speed for striking surface targets like radar facilities and ships and also larger air targets like tankers and AWACS platforms. It's not an agile plane that's designed to defeat other fighter aircraft like the Super Hornet, F-35, etc. It's built to hit a target and escape undetected, relying on its stealth capabilities, much like a slightly faster version of the now retired F-117. Unfortunately for you, the F-35, which has a radar specifically designed to register stealth aircraft like the J-20, will be in full service by then.

just-a-guy, people like you are the reason Japan has to keep our defenses tight. It is possible that the rulers of the Peoples Republic of China and Russia will have the same ideals. Attacking the air defenses is usually considered the first step toward a surprise attack using atomics. Take out the early warning sats and the Americans would be forced to go to the highest level of alert (DEFCON 1). It is like pulling a weapon, putting a round in the chamber, aiming and squeezing the trigger but not shooting. Konsta, the cold war is not over since both China and Russia are once again threatening the free world. Sometimes I think it is only a question of time. The leaders of China and Russia are not sane men. They respect only one thing, STRENGTH.

just-a-guy

Oh, and here's hoping that your J-20 program fairs better than your "domestically developed" (ahem) railway program.

Konsta, actually I am more worried about China. They are working on developing a first strike capacity. North Korea while it has bombers, giggles, it would be a "turkey shoot". Russia does not have the stealth aircraft, so we should take them off of the list. Oh North Korea with it 80 "Beagles" is reason along for 20 more fighters. Oh again, I am not a Japanese person, this get tiring. This leaves China and while now a "surprise" attack would be difficult if not outright impossible. Stealth Aircraft make it possible. What China would want is a quick victorious war and keep America from responding in kind by threatening to nuke their cities. Of course if these aircraft can be tracked it becomes a moot point. About the F-18, it is enough for China to warn America about selling new ones to Taiwan. So there has to be something. Oh about my comment about not sane leaders, well I wonder about all of them. However picking on China and Russia is not right so I retract it with an apology.

Why Japan can't buy Russian air planes Su or Mig? Also Japan can do R&D modifications SU and Mig by use Su or Nig as base for own military air planes. That can be good for strategic security of Japan, for military R&D independence from any countries in the world, for save money too.

BessonovYan

Why would Japan choose to buy an airplane from a country that is currently your potential adversaries (i.e. Russia, China) and who would cut off the supply for parts at the first sign of hostilties, diplomatic or military? That would be incredibly stupid.

@USNinJapan2Sep. 29, 2011 - 09:17AM JST

Why would Japan choose to buy an airplane from a country that is currently your potential adversaries (i.e. Russia, China)

Why Russia can be adversaries to Japan? I sure that is impossible.

who would cut off the supply for parts at the first sign of hostilties, diplomatic or military?

We have problem of bad stability of delivery of complementation for air planes, but we not have some much politics pretentious to Japan.

Russia and Japan need peace in Asian region. Also for balance of military power Japan must be independence from military technology of USA and EU.

Japan must be independence from USA and China that very important. Also Japan must be technological leadership in the world that is too very important for balance and peace in the world.