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China calls on Japan to halt entries into disputed waters

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China should just back off. It is clear the islands are owned by Japan.

23 ( +30 / -7 )

This is a clear escalation, and a very bad idea on China's part. While I don't think 8 fighter jets were needed in response, I do think it was a good response, in that China is trying to make little, incremental pushes, trying to wear down Japan in small, non-violent steps, so that it can claim that it was never the aggressor. An overwhelming response such as this will help make it very clear that the line has been drawn and China's coy little games will not be tolerated.

I fear, however, that China will continue to press the issue. I hope I am wrong, but I suspect that they have decided that the Senkaku islands will make a good precedent for their land grab claims, and that neither the U.S. nor Japan will be willing to take military action to retain them. China doesn't seem to realize that the U.S. would certainly not like to go to war for these islands, however it will feel bound to if China invades, worthless piles of rock or otherwise.

23 ( +23 / -0 )

Thanks china. More make bullying, more Japanese people to move the right wings.

18 ( +21 / -3 )

So take it to the ICJ, China. There IS no dispute on the Japanese side, only on the gangster's side, and gangsters are always looking to start a turf war. Give them an inch and they'll take a yard, give them a yard and...

19 ( +20 / -1 )

December 21st here we come. Japan and China please grow up, sit down and talk this out. Let's not repeat history.

-13 ( +4 / -16 )

Senkaku islands will make a good precedent for their land grab claims, and that neither the U.S. nor Japan will be willing to take military action to retain them

I doubt it, I think history has taught well the lesson of letting people take lands that don't belong to them.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

and to think China can't even control Notht Korea hahahaha dream on

7 ( +9 / -2 )

21/12 ? Still one week left, both parties should workout peaceful solution if they want world to survive else....

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

I doubt it, I think history has taught well the lesson of letting people take lands that don't belong to them.

China...doesn't have a good track record in regards to learning from history.

That said, if they learned anything, they should have learned this. After all, it is the main reason they lost any claim they might have had to the Islands in the first place.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Thing is Communist China will not stop with these islands. If they get them then Okinawa will be demanded. This is a test of our resolve to remain a free country.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

The islands do not belong to Japan. All countries and ppl in the world are watching this, and they are on China's side. The major EU countries rejected Japan's FM when he asked for their support during his visit a few months ago. Basically, they said: sorry japan, No!

Japan is being pushed out of China as a result of this and products are being boycotted. You know what.. when other Asian countries see that, they will start to lose respect for Japan.. Game over, really.

-32 ( +6 / -38 )

Really Mano? I seem to recall the state department of the USA saying they will support Japan on this matter.

22 ( +22 / -0 )

Really Mano? I seem to recall the state department of the USA saying they will support Japan on this matter.

Thats the thing, u hit it right on the bull's eye. Only the US is supporting japan. Japan is basically a puppet of the Us gov.

But ppl in Asia, especially countries in s.e. asia are watching and they can read all kinds of links..and read the History since 1895 re: diaoyu and they can make their own conclusion. As i said..japan is being psuhed out of china, Unfortunately... then japan will invest in s.e.asia..sure they welcome some money..but they are already losing Respect for japan when they see china is pushing japan out. It's that simple, really.

-23 ( +2 / -25 )

"Japan fails to win support on Senkakus issue from Europe's 'Big 3' October 20, 2012

THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

Despite his announcements of achievements, Foreign Minister Koichiro Genba failed to win clear support from France, Britain and Germany for Japan’s sovereignty claims to the Senkaku Islands during his European tour.

-23 ( +3 / -26 )

Japan should protect their Senkaku Islands regardless of what the enemies of Japan want. Modern day international agreed upon treaties state that Japan owns the Senkaku Islands since 1895. Screw France, Britain, and Germany who are afraid that China won't loan their country money at low interest rates if they side with Japan.

China always uses that stupid history which doesn't make any difference. They claim that the Senkaku Island belonged to China before 1895. Did you know who owned California before 1848? Mexico. I don't think America is going to give California back to Mexico, just because they owned it before 1848. Using history is not enough of a reason.

What counts is international treaties. Regardless of whether you signed them or not, if you are part of the international community, which China supposedly is part of - unless they are lying again - you have to go along with international agreements set by international laws and regulations.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Mano

The article you site never mentions any of the countries supporting china either. But good look with the cute china mascot thing.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

@peanut666

i think we have discussed ad nauseam about the legality of diaoyu on many threads, check my profile for links to those threads.

the islands do Not belong to japan. those eu countries have their legal experts who advise them on this diaoyu matters, so they know what they are talking about.

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

and to think China, the US, the UN and Japan can't even control Notht Korea hahahaha dream on.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

mano Communist China will have to use force to take our islands. The maritime self defense force is waiting for them. This will be the first full scale test of Russian naval technology vs American naval technology.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

China reacts based on situation, the world does not care much except millions from China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. China pretty much estimated and anticipated Japan's respond before they decided how to tackle the disputed islands.

Has people forgotten the poor reception when Noda was addressing the issue at UN? Japan's economic problems related to this issue? Japan's respond towards Chinese surveillance ships for the last 2 months? Japan's relationships with its neighbors? All this China takes into account.

People here has been debating who has the advantage here, while China continue to grow meeting its target this year with good news, Japan is declining with electronic giants selling their asset, aging infrastructure, rising competition, trade deficit, energy issues, nationalism, China do consider all this as their advantages and they have the patience to continue whatever they are doing until Japan meet their demands on acknowledge the existence of such dispute.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

mano Communist China will have to use force to take our islands. The maritime self defense force is waiting for them. This will be the first full scale test of Russian naval technology vs American naval technology.

u forgot sun tzu.. win a war without firing a single shot. japan is already losing this "war" chess game. all countries in the world side with china, except the usa siding with japan. think about it. Why?

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

.japan is being psuhed out of china,

Ummm, no. The Japanese are leaving communist china because the communists have proven (once again) that they cannot work or play well with others. I think other Asian countries know this fact only too well. Actually, I'm sure I saw a post yesterday from Thailand calling Japan "a hero". Its a shame really, but one could count the "friends of china" on one finger.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Yeah, halt YOUR entries. The next step is to replace the Coast Guard with Aegis Destroyers and let the Chinese know that any fixed-wing aircraft entering might not come out.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The article you site never mentions any of the countries supporting china either. But good look with the cute china mascot thing

show me, name any country (except the Us) which supports japan on this diaoyu matter ??

-24 ( +0 / -24 )

Ummm, no. The Japanese are leaving communist china because the communists have proven (once again) that they >cannot work or play well with others. I think other Asian countries know this fact only too well. Actually, I'm sure I saw a >post yesterday from Thailand calling Japan "a hero". Its a shame really, but one could count the "friends of china" on >one finger.

think about it.. businessmen are not irrational. Why they r leaving? think about it. it is because the ppl in china r rejecting japan by rejecting japan products. then ask again, why?

-21 ( +1 / -22 )

What it really comes down to is the post WWII return of Japanese lands after the US occupation. The US gave those islands back to Japan as part of the Okinawa deal if memory serves. China has no right 70 years later to come back and say that they belong to them anymore even if they did in the 1800s. As I said in previous articles about this subject the China that exists today is not the same China of WWII or before. Therefore any of their claims predating Communist China should all be null and void. They also claim that Taiwan is still part of Communist China as well. That has worked out for them real well.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

I don't know if China are just ignorant or just totally off the rocker.....

8 ( +8 / -0 )

mano, your claims would work well lift a small balloon off the ground about a meter, but won't get you far, pal. And the sky is red, right?

Senkakus belong to Japan. There's legal precedent and documentation. You lose.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

I never said they supported japan. It says they were impartial. But everyone talks about china behind its back behind the scenes

5 ( +5 / -0 )

China will push their luck one day. Senkakus is Japanese land and China can't do anything about it.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

think about it.. businessmen are not irrational. Why they r leaving? think about it. it is because the ppl in china r rejecting japan by rejecting japan products. then ask again, why?

They are leaving precisely because they are not irrational. The communists are never going to change, and Japan finally realizes this. Why would they continue risking their investments in such an unstable country. That would be irrational. The few communists who can actually afford Japanese products will continue to buy them (since there are no domestic products comparable in quality ) and Japan will minimize risk by setting up their factories and conducting investment activities back in Japan or in other more welcoming Asian countries. As you said, its the rational thing to do.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@herve and nikku

everyone is entitled to their opinions :) but what i can tell u, japan is losing in this 'war' chess game. abe will win, and china-japan will battle it out for more in the coming months and years, but at the end of the day, countries will lose respect for japan.. it's so very clear like night and day.

-22 ( +0 / -22 )

China will be known for being the bullying country of Asia or the world.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Readers, enough of this nonsense. Please exchange views in a mature manner.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They are leaving precisely because they are not irrational. The communists are never going to change, and Japan >finally realizes this. Why would they continue risking their investments in such an unstable country. That would be >irrational. The few communists who can actually afford Japanese products will continue to buy them (since there are >no domestic products comparable in quality ) and Japan will minimize risk by setting up their factories and conducting >investment activities back in Japan or in other more welcoming Asian countries. As you said, its the rational thing to do.

the japanese businessmen have been doing Great for the last 30 yrs with their investments in china! ask them! they are leaving not because of the gov of china, rather the ppl in china are rejecting japan products. u should ask the ppl there: Why?

-20 ( +0 / -20 )

mano,

Only the US is supporting japan

I do not talk with the Chinese nationalist so maybe I am unaware, but which country has supported China's claim of Senkaku and Okinawa?

I saw interesting article very recently. Maybe you did not see it. http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/philippines-backs-rearmed-japan-to-balance-china

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The Chinese have no valid claim to the Senkaku Islands or Taiwan. Both Chinese claims are bogus. After the Mudan Incident of 1871, the Chinese made it clear to Japan that the Chinese did not have control of Taiwan. The Chinese have never shown any control of the Senkaku Islands either. There were no Chinese structures on the islands or Chinese living on them. The first structures on the islands were built by the Japanese. The first domesticated animals on the island were brought over by the Japanese. The first detailed maps of the islands were printed by the Japanese. The Chinese didn't even have detailed maps of the islands until 2012. In Spanish, the very word for a bogus story is un cuento chino.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@mano, actually not only Japan is currently leaving China. China is getting expensive and there are cheaper countries in south east Asia ...

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Wow! Has China been getting exit polls about the Japanese election? There has been early voting in Japan and the exit polls are pointing LDP winning so far.

And whenever China says "completely normal" or "since ancient times", thats code for world domination.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The japanese response was on par with Any other country protecting it's airspace. However times are changing. And Japan must surely see that the present measures in place will not surfice in the future, they need to enter into dialogue with China, instead launching protests, that go largely unanswered. China, for it's part must see that there is no way, those islands are going to be given to them. And I would think these fly-by's will not happen again, if they do, it would only be to their own embarrasment. About Japan support. It could be said that european nations a kin, to support China these days, because they need the investment, but they also do their homework, and their history is very old as well, so they can actually relate to China's claim, wich kind of interesting. So Japan will be hard pressed on this issue in europe to say the least, But they will always have U.S. support which i think is more than enough. And S. Korea and the Phillipines as well a Vietnam would be smart in supporting Japan as well, and I think they do. And with Myanmar comi g back on the world scene and the heavy investments from Japanese companies as of late I'm pretty sure there is clear strategy to what is going on, with the lack trust thus built in China with it's buisness districts, so there doese seem to be a response from the Japanese buisness side that is now determined to invest elsewhere, not all because of lack of sales, but also stabilility, that shift seems to be, to Latin America, Taiwan, Myanmar, Vietnam and Africa. The future is bright for an entepeneur Japan, and troubling for an encumbered China economy, who banking bubble is about to bust. Just another view. Peace on the seven seas.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

i love how the japanese are arming themselves for this. it's about time. there's only so much patience you can exercise before you need to just cock back your shotgun and shoot up the trespassers on your land. enough is enough.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@chris

The future is bright for an entepeneur Japan, and troubling for an encumbered China economy, who banking bubble is about to bust.

Not really. Pls read my 2 links above.

quote: "Reorientation to domestic markets was announced in early 2011, but preparations for the decision have been underway for a decade, the expert noted, saying this was not purely an economic task but also a political and social one, as the Chinese population must be able to afford the goods produced by the industry.

China is moving toward a different higher direction.

As I said.. many businessmen in japan are cursing.. why? only an insane biz person would be willing to lose 1.3 billion ppl.

Lets see how Abe will handle this situation.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

LOL Chinese Communist Propaganda links.

Not really, there are open sources:

http://www.kansas.com/2012/12/11/2599657/china-overtakes-us-in-number-of.html

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

..I think China is getting ready for War. They made NK capable of shooting long range missile and now they are teasing Japan, Vietnam, Philippines. This is just alarming !

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The point to my comment at 07:24 was; first both sides sent people to the island then ships from both sides and now aircraft. What's next? They should stop trying to show force and sit down and discuss it before it gets out of hand.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Not to totally change the topic, but is any side really developing or tapping into the supposed natural resources which is what the row is partially about? I understand the historical and territorial sides of the discussion, but last time I checked we were looking at some rocks in the middle of the water with the only real value being in the natural resources in fishing and gas. If no one is really doing anything to tap the resources, it seems to be more about pride, which is even more difficult to mediate an agreement or resolution to.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China's pride is at stake and this makes it very dangerous. Internally they have puffed themselves up and now they probably cannot back down without losing face internally. This has backed Japan into a corner and left her little choice.

Now if Japan would just give China the islands (as has happened with other countries in the south seas) this would be very convenient for a number of reasons which I will not spell out here, but it would also help China surround Taiwan in this exciting (for China) new game of I-go stones. Win-win-win for China, ...if Japan were ever to back down.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

base on the UN law of sea to follow , in case if needed japan should strongly react to china like as shooting china 's air plane down or sinking china 's ship in japan ' territory (senkakus ) . i bet on japan side , japan must be the winner , get will get the winning medal easily . BRAVO HERO JAPAN

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My goodness what a silly move on the part of China. They dont have a leg to stand on yet they keep beating the same old drum. Sorry Japan owns the islands and that is fact and the end of the story. I think some posts here and elsewhere show that people can be fooled by Chinese propaganda but that does not change the facts either. Japan is acting with dignity and respect and is standing tall in this situation and has gained more and more of my own respect in the process. Shows what a modern and sophisticated nation acts like. China on the other hand is acting as atypical imperialistic 18th century nation that it in many ways still is. No number of posts complaining about the facts can change them. Sorry. Thanks for keeping us current on this issue Japan Today staff and for reminding us as guests on your forum to post respectfully and to the topic.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

and on a final note, as it is pointless to argue about facts that are clear. the islands in question are called the Senkaku Island group. The owner of land has the legal right to name the territory. That is international Law, Law of the Sea and just about every convention and accord on record. Only China appears to believe it can rename the world for its own. Sorry, that does not appear to be how such conventions work.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

China is acting like a cheap whore playing catch me if you can. If they are really serious with there act why do they send a yak plane good only for spraying agricultural pesticide. Why not send a J20 it is a good match for F15 Eagle. Let see which is the best.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't think one good aerial dogfight will result to nuclear war. China knows the consequence even they don't want to dwell into.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

nandakandamanda wrote:

it would also help China surround Taiwan

Taiwan would never succomb to Communist China. Doesn't China know Taiwan has chosen a demcratic, free country? But if China becomes democratic, well you could see unification with China and Taiwan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Jason Ring

Nope not in the disputed parts anyways. The problem is that most inssurers would place a stupendiously high premium for any asset to be constructed in such potential hot zone. That may also be part of PRC's plan, denial of access.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Communist China will have to use force to take our islands. The maritime self defense force is waiting for them. This will be the first full scale test of Russian naval technology vs American naval technology.

Nope. This would be a test of Chinese Naval technology versus yours and American one. If you wish to test Russian technology, try to fight for Kurils or shoot down one of those strategic bombers, circling japanese soil.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Whatever posters are inflaming, there will be no direct arm force confrontation between Japan and China. It was not 20th century warfare will repeat as they wished for. Japan is too broke to buy more planes. China has only one air craft carrier for landing and not fully ready yet. They have not sufficient pilots too. Launching missile like NK is cheaper for them. The possibility is trade and propaganda war. Talk is cheap! Reality is different.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

AthletesDec. 14, 2012 - 01:01PM JST

Whatever posters are inflaming, there will be no direct arm force confrontation between Japan and China. It was not 20th century warfare will repeat as they wished for.

Japan certainly doesn't want war, but China's actions are taken straight out of their incursions into other countries (as well as Japan's own actions before WWII)

Japan is too broke to buy more planes.

They really don't need to, US forces in Japan can easily fend off anything China can send. And as even you stated, if there ever is a war, it won't be fought with planes and bombs, it'll be internet and missiles.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

technosphereDec. 14, 2012 - 12:33PM JST

Nope. This would be a test of Chinese Naval technology versus yours and American one. If you wish to test Russian technology, try to fight for Kurils or shoot down one of those strategic bombers

No need to test Russian tech, they already demonstrated they can shoot down an unarmed 747 with Japanese and American (and korean) civilians after being unable to detect it until it already left their airspace! Wouldn't be too surprised if a Japan-Taiwan flight gets shot down by the Chinese because one of their planes illegally flew into that airspace.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Want to stop PLA aggression? It's easy really. They're looking outwards right now, looking to expand. Make them look inwards.

Start a "Free Tibet" rally. Support a Tibetan underground of Freedom Fighters. Make a movie about some heroic Tibetan fighting the communist take-over of his country. Then, make sure every Tibetan sees that movie. Make China the enemy with a rallying cry. Make China focus its gunsights inward again, as it begins to break apart one new country at a time.

Make the Uighurs in Xinjiang start seeing themselves as oppressed by the invading Han Chinese, who are slowly making them a minority in their own ethnic sphere. Make Inner Mongolia see its future better aligned with Outer Mongolia which, after all, is a more natural alignment for these ethnically identical peoples. Yes, make China realize that it shouldn't be concentrating on expanding outwards when it's falling apart.

After all that, make the Southeastern and Eastern coasts realize they're better off without these poor provinces sucking up their wealth in Beijing's communist-styled re-distribution schemes. Rich people won't object too much, as long as they secure contractual rights to resources in those provinces. Then break up the coast into three or more separate countries by fostering competition between them based on historical imperatives tied to their three major rivers.

Yes, you can stop China from its expansionist ideology by breaking it apart into manageable entities. Start with Tibet. Give Tibetans a hero besides the Dalai Lama. Not peace but war.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

There is an article I read sometime in July this year in the Business Insider titled- Why a War between China and Japan is unavoidable. I have grave doubt about it but judging from quite a good number of the comments I have just read I have serious doubt about my own judgement.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China! You cannot contain this massive a country with the strategy employed by the US with its fleets waving the American flag with its allies. Eventually, China will break out of any containment, like a chick will eventually grow out of the egg. An all-inclusive framework is even worse, because it will eventually be a world dominated by a monstrous dragon. There's only one way out...besides resorting to a nuclear war that kills millions of people.

This is the way: We broke the Balkans into pieces to serve our interests with Caspian oil. We broke the Soviet Union into pieces to secure markets for our goods. We'll break China into pieces to keep our Chinese factories functioning on the cheap.

Don't underestimate the ability of ordinary people (like the Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongols) to make it impossible for Beijing to rule the Chinese hinterland. Instead of Tibetans lighting themselves up in protest, we will convince them to light up the enemy with Molotov cocktails. At the same time, don't underestimate our ability to manipulate these people into believing they're downtrodden and that they have to fight the Han Chinese in a us-versus-them context.

With insurgency in these three areas, China will then look inward again and leave India alone, leave Vietnam alone, leave the Philippines alone, leave Japan alone, leave us alone. This idiotic attitude of inclusion, as professed by Obama, is the death knell of Western civilization. Fortunately, our government doesn't walk that talk except as an interim measure.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

No need to test Russian tech, they already demonstrated they can shoot down an unarmed 747 with Japanese and American (and korean) civilians after being unable to detect it until it already left their airspace!

They shot down an unidentified plane that had flew deeply into Soviet airspace. Later it turned to be KAL 007. The analysis of the previous violation of Soviet airspace that had occured over nothern part of Russia gave to Soviet side an information about spy flights of civil jets under strict instructions and orders from US specialists of CIA. Civil jet penetrates foreign airspace under pretext of "navigational mistake" while spy satellites and SIGINT airplanes get information about resumes of Soviet radars, working at combat mode in a local system of Anti-Aircraft protection.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@ lachance

That interesting theory. It actual fact after the US election I seems to read somewhere that question was raise by some Texans to secede from the US Federation and later it was also reviewed that not only Texas but a number of other states as well.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's time the JSDF & JMSDF Militarize the Senkaku Islands.

I'm talking about installing an Army Base, an Airfield, and a Naval Station.

Just like Diego Garcia.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

basroil

They really don't need to, US forces in Japan can easily fend off anything China can send. And as even you stated, if there ever is a war, it won't be fought with planes and bombs, it'll be internet and missiles.

You post is something special. Wiser! I can not agree entirely. Why not Okinawa disciples watching NK missile flying over them. Did they think it is a sputnik? Since 1973, US has fought only limited wars with limited casualty. In fact it put the national interest ahead of everything. Even US will involve, it will make per-exit strategy. No more Afghan or Vietnam!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

mamo:

" But ppl in Asia, especially countries in s.e. asia are watching and they can read all kinds of links..and read the History since 1895 re: diaoyu and they can make their own conclusion. "

Yes Mamo, people in s.e. asia are watching Chinese aggression and are getting increasingly weary of Communist China´s imperal ambitions. China has annexed Tibet, has grabbed islands from Vietnam, from the Philippines, and is now trying to grab islands from Japan. Surely you don´t expect the Phillipines and Vietname to sympathize with the aggressor who already stole lands from them?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

21/12 ? Still one week left, both parties should workout peaceful solution if they want world to survive else....

HEY! that's when we have our 忘年会. hope it's not 亡念会....

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"The confrontation between Japan and China … has escalated to a truly dangerous level," wrote the former US diplomat Stephen Harner in Forbes. "Objectively it must be stated that it has been Japan that has done the most to raise tensions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/17/china-japan-dangerous-standoff

The Senate document also states firmly that “white the United States takes no position on the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands, the United States acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands.

http://www.japanupdate.com/2012/12/u-s-senate-passes-amendment-supporting-senkakus-japan/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

As a Briton I'm annoyed that my government won't give outright support to Japan...

That aside, I am angered by this incursion into Japanese airspace by the Chinese aircraft... this is clearly them probing to see whether the Japanese are prepared to fight to protect the islands. If America wants to be seen as more than an annoying house guest in Okinawa then they need to start protecting their host... move a Marine carrier off the islands with Harriers and gunships. That will perhaps put the brakes on.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China asked the Philippines to withdraw from the Scarborough Shoal, which they did, but the Chinese stayed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Ha-ha-ha the comments from this Mano guy is hilarious. Well it may seem a bit desperate to try to convince the readers of JT that "the world" sides with China on the Senkaku issue. If you have got nothing better than that you are surely out of arguments. A bit sad. If you are trying to spin the fact that almost all of the world has a negative attitude towards Commie Chinas attempt to hijack land and resources from its neighbors then you need a little better arguments. Try to read news a little more objectively. Looking forward to your next input.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Stephen Harner in Forbes. "Objectively it must be stated that it has been Japan that has done the most to raise tensions.

It doesn't make sense. Japanese government bought islands to prevent sale to Tokyo. It was done to appease China. Even though it is just the change of ownership under Japanese law, nothing to do with China, China became veeeeery upset. It is China's choice to become upset about Japanese domestic issue.

China has done nothing to lower tensions since.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@ Cabadaje

"China doesn't seem to realize that the US would certainly not to got to war for the island, however it will feel bound to if China invade, worthless pile of rock or otherwise"

It might look like a worthless pile of rocks to you but it seems that there is a potential of billion of barrel of oil and huge gas resource under this pile of rocks, that's why both countries are getting their hands on

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ha-ha-ha the comments from this Mano guy is hilarious. Well it may seem a bit desperate to try to convince the >readers of JT that "the world" sides with China on the Senkaku issue. If you have got nothing better than that you are >surely out of arguments. A bit sad. If you are trying to spin the fact that almost all of the world has a negative attitude >towards Commie Chinas attempt to hijack land and resources from its neighbors then you need a little better >arguments. Try to read news a little more objectively. Looking forward to your next input.

Thanks to internet, im in canada but know enough about japan from various sources :)

Here is why japan will have hard times winning its case re:diaoyu

"This month, during my first return to Japan in a decade, I put that assertion to an English friend who had lived even longer in Tokyo. “That’s about right,” he said, “battered by deflation and a overly strong currency, the Japanese have concluded that they can’t compete with a rising China and are withdrawing into themselves.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-is-in-worse-than-a-deflationary-trap-2012-11-01

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

All in all sincerely hope the Communist Party is maintaining effective control of their own army and know what they are doing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Japan bought the islands fro a private Japanese owner"

How exactly did the Japanese owner come into possession of the islands?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SerranoDec. 14, 2012 - 10:13PM JST: "Japan bought the islands fro a private Japanese owner". How exactly did the Japanese owner come into possession of the islands?

A private family first rented it from JP government just after Taiwan was occupied by JP in 1895. decades later another private family bought it from JP government. However, JP surrendered to end WWII in 1945 and returned it to Taiwan(ROC).

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Many people become too emotional to well solve this problem now. Again, only cooperated development (or even leave it undeveloped) by all parties can finally cool down every's head. No matter you like it or not, you've to accept a peaceful solution!

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As some one I knew said, " China is just flexing their muscles". I believe this as well, China is getting more dominant and is letting everyone know it.

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@Yosun I completely agree with you. They either need an unbiased party, or a peaceful treaty because I'd rather not have another world war or another war for that matter

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Okay Mano. Im sorry but I think you are pointing to the opposite. Your reference is nothing more than a journalist trying to sell a story to marketwatch. Why are you refering to these as base for Japan losing the issue on Senkaku? There are plenty of good or at least more reasonable stories on Japans economical status. Best tips I think would be high ranking internet papers (on the objectivity scale) like NewYorkTimes and BBC in UK. Concerning economy, I think it is a fair estimate to say that everything is not what it seems to be in Japan. Numbers for economical estimates (growth, recession, the US Cliff etcetera) are only made up criteria to create a sense of control and of course one more layer of business opportunities. Should always be read with a serious pinch of salt. Back to the topic, I think the buy of Senkaku was the only option for Noda or else Ishihara could have started something much more costly. Good save Noda. Thats democracy. And also the ridiculous amount of fighters against one harmless Chinese scout is not about the numbers. It is a statement from Japan that from now on they feel assured that the US will back them up completely.

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A private family first rented it from JP government just after Taiwan was occupied by JP in 1895. decades later another private family bought it from JP government. However, JP surrendered to end WWII in 1945 and returned it to Taiwan(ROC).

False. There were never part of the Taiwan. The islands were incorporated by Japan under Okinawa prefecture. Again, repeating the same lies that the islands were part of the Shimonoseki Treaty when it's clearly not.

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Though many countries deal with China for economic reasons, China is very much a distrusted nation. I've been living in western Europe for almost four years now and so far met two people who were positive about China. Wow.

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Mano2012

legally, it belongs Japan with out any doubt. If that is not the case, let me know where we can find the hard evidence. There are many documents between from 1885 till today that suggests the islands were under the TERRA NULLIUS status when Japan registered them as Okinawa in 1895.Or some possibility, the people on Taiwan Island might have had some activity there.Since this is while ago, I am still doing my study. But one thing became more clear is this is not Chinese island. This should be solve the issue between Japan and Taiwan. China has no room for this matter. I feel with Taiwan, we could solve the issue with civilized manner with mutual respect between 2 countries as well as the world.

I know China claim based on some historical fact. Even if that were true, that means nothing in International laws. Because in order to avoid this kind of problem like China's unreasonable claim for Senkaku in ancient time story such as ‘’China discovered the land, then Japan stole it’’ if that kind of claim determines which country has sovereignty every corner of the world, the world would go chaos. Therefore, the law was promulgated.

The judicial precedent in an international law. Island of Palmas Case teaches the world, 1)The title by geographical approach ability does not have a meaning in the international law. 2) Discovery itself is immature origin of rights to obtain a sovereignty in international law which is inchoate title. 3) When a foreign country begins to use realistic sovereignty and a discovery country does not protest, the title which uses sovereignty is only larger than the title of discovery.

When did China have the realistic sovereignty based on the law?

Japan has a condition to match the law. Japan has a bonito flake factory between 1895 till 1941 and about 250 people live on the island but the war broke out, the people left then after that, make a long story short, with the 48 countries approval after the peace process of WW2 in San Francisco peace treaty article 3. Okinawa and all its island went back to Japan. Temporarily, Japan only allowed to have only the 4 main islands right after Japan accepted the Potsdam declaration until SF treaty was approved by the international community. However, Okinawa and all its islands were taken by the US as Japan.Okinawa and its islands were returned to Japan by US in 1972.

Mano 2012, Do you think the US occupied Chinese lands till 1972? I do not think no one knows that history that USA took over China.The world include China understood all Okinawa was Japan then.

Any way even if Chinese story were true, China's claim is too late based on the judicial precedent in International law.

The fact of matter is that Chinese claiming history for this case is very much fabricated one. I know at least five maps could be more which were officially published in China under the awareness of the Chinese government. In fact, 1953 January 8th Jinmin Nippo which is the official Chinese news paper indicates Senkaku as Japan. That fact manifest how China understood Senkaku islands. They also used the maps I am talking about here.

Now, one of the maps made many Japaneses people very furious. 1905, China published Great Qing Dynasty(China then) map was published as the first edition did not have any indication for the islands are China.The 5 maps till 1968 since the first edition, none of these maps have what China has claimed since the potential oil was found in 1968. and 5 of them clearly indicating as Senkaku as Japan also the border line was shown as Japan territory in Chinese map.

Suddenly, 1972, the same map started to indicate Senkaku changed to Chinese name and the borderline was extended to Japan side so the islands locate in Chinese territory!!!

1987, Chinese historical map was published which were collection of old maps. Believe it or not, the fist edition of Great Qing Dynasty map originally has no indication the islands as China in 1905 I mentioned above, out of chronological order, historical maps from 1820, they somehow show Senkaku in Chinese name and the next to the name of islands (Fukien section) Originally the first edition in 1905 and the one published 1987 has different indications. That is after the potential oil was found in 1968.How something did not have in 1905 suddenly emerged in the historical map since 1820 in the map collections in 1987? How logically can you explain this?

If Qing Dynasty had governed Senkaku, the first edition of the map in 1905 should have shown that but it did not show that way in the first edition. Nothing personal to you or Chinese people, but for this dispute, there are so many solid hard evidences and legal logic that Japan can testify that Senkaku has been Japan since 1895. When Japan annexed Senkaku to OKinawa, Japan asked Qing to confirm if this is TERRA NULLIUS or not. After that japan did it. HOwever, this is 1895, many people might feel it has something to do with the result of war. In 1871 after the Miyakojima inhabitant incident, Qing dined governing the area which has nothing to do with the war then. Even if something to do with war, how the case of China expanded their land? Not just China, in this world, if we had to reset the world map based on the 15 century, the world could not maintain the order and peace we have today. I respect Vietnam that they reject the new Chinese passport which unilaterally expanded the territory of China.This year,the private Japanese owner of Senkaku sold the islands to his government because the maintenance of islands got almost impossible as an individual owner under this political circumstances.This is a domestic transaction which does not give any justification that Chinese destroyed Japanese business during the riot in up to 125 cities and seems Chinese government won't take any responsibility for that. But continuous provocative actions like this article reports. If Japan were the normal country, the plane would have been shot. Japan still show the commitment to keep the article#9. But unless China stops these actions, Japan might really change the constitution and beef up our militarily capability to increase the deterrence power but not to start a war. The US has been asking us for long time in order to lighten the burden for them. (True, many documents from US.)

I personally and many of my friends still feel we like to have article #9 as the stopper that we had a big discussion after our dinner yesterday. But if Shinocentrism becomes more conspicuous, not because we want to have any aggression but more comes from fear, in order to maintain the proper military balance and our diplomatic overture which is supported and comes with by military power as well. That is the way normal countries do. You know even on the surface level how many time more military budget China spent last 10 years compare to 1994? Unclear military expansion made us a very nervous nation. Also November 2011, officially China established Okinawa autonomy department (They call Ryukyu) We do not want to have Tibet, Uighur issue in Japan.

Therefore, we unwillingly might vote to change the constitutions. All my friends could not believe what we think now or say now. No one is the typical right wingers people might think but we love our country, family and cultural legacy. China, back off.

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All of you are free to share your opinion, BUT, 90%+ people either in CN or in TW or in JP believe deeply from their hearts that the islets belong only to themselves, therefore problem coming! at the same time some dirty politician also take use of this issue to grasp some politicial profit .... problem becoming more complex. Till now I didn't see any perfect theory can persuade me..... but so what? it's life! no one is perfect! it's only same that all of us want a better life. I don't think a war or conflict can bring any good thing. SO we're just "forced" to sit down and talk/ share.

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Current relationship between Japanese and Chinese is giving lesson the whole Business community about dealing with Communist Government. Once you went into Communist China and then the Business is not in your control anymore. Communist Chinese Government is tightening screw on Japanese Government. Japanese Companies already invested billions of dollars in Communist China. The situation for Japanese Companies in Communist China is very difficult for continue investing and also moving to other parts of Asia country. That's Communist China dirty trick. I don't see the problem with Communist Chinese Government will go away soon or in future. Simply Communist Chinese Government is able to blackmail Japanese Government with Japanese investment in Communist China.

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SO we're just "forced" to sit down and talk/ share.

Or ICJ. That's what it's for, really. When two sides exhausted all negotiations, that's where nations go to settle it once and for all.

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@Sentiments and Chamkun.

Let me make it simple for you. Here is a quiz:

We have been reading about china's ships entering japanese's zone in the last few months, and each ship telling the other's ship to get out as the islands belong to them.

If japan is so sure the islands belong to them, make it short and sweet and just send a sub or a destroyer or something and take out those china's ships.

But japan did not do it. a. it did Not do it not because it was afraid of an economic war b. it did Not do it not because it was afraid of further military confrontation.

No. japan did not do it because it knows it has a Weak case: the islands do not belong to japan!

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Mano2012

You could very well replace "Japan" with "China" and vice versa in the last three sentence.

One of many fallacy to your arguments as many had already pointed out.

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You could very well replace "Japan" with "China" and vice versa in the last three sentence. One of many fallacy to your arguments as many had already pointed out.

ah! but u took the bait! :)

what china has been asking and saying to japan: acknowledge that there is a Dispute!

Deng and Tanaka agreed to shelve this "problem", but japan re-opened this case!

when pm noda spoke at the united nations recently, the pic showed he was speaking to basically an empty hall !

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"Unilateral Decisions by Japan-V/The Diaoyu/Senkaku-XXI

"In 1972, Zhou Bin, now 77-years-old, was an interpreter in the meeting between Zhou Enlai and Tanaka Kakuei as both countries was trying to normalize their relationship. He served the official interpreter for the Chinese government in 40 years ago. As the issue of the Diaoyu/Senkaku was broached, according to Zhou Bin, the Chinese Premier Zhou did not “want to talk about it this time… It’s no good to talk about this now (Kyodo News 29 September 2012; Phoenix News 29 September 2012).” “Premier Zhou suggested solving (the territorial dispute) in future intergovernmental peace negotiations, and Prime Minister Tanaka agreed (Kyodo News 29 September 2012).” Ironically, the Tanaka's statement in this meeting has been deleted by the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Why?"

http://chinajapanusrelations.blogspot.ca/2012/10/unilateral-decisions-by-japan-vthe.html

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

"Japan surrendered to end WWll in 1945 and returned it ( the islands ) to Taiwan"

So the Senkaku Islands are Taiwanese islands! Case solved! Japan, China - get out!

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nigelboyDec. 15, 2012 - 02:51AM JST : SO we're just "forced" to sit down and talk/ share. Or ICJ. That's what it's for, really. When two sides exhausted all negotiations, that's where nations go to settle it once and for all.

Agree! a few months ago Taiwan already proposed that all parties to go to ICJ to finalize this issue, however, JP refused and no reply from CN for this suggestion till date.

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The PRC is attempting a Tibet style invasion of all territories it believes it owns.

But in the view of the PRC it owns everything in the Pacific and asian continent.

The PRC holkds the same views as did Germany in 1933.

Article 9 must be removed to ensure Japan can defend itself against the threat of the PRC and it's servant nations!

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Article 9 must be removed to ensure Japan can defend itself against the threat of the PRC and it's servant nations!

What, Japan can still defend itself with Article 9.

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Mano2012

If japan is so sure the islands belong to them, make it short and sweet and just send a sub or a destroyer or something and take out those china's ships.

Japan is a lawful country. Since we have article#9 in our constitution, Although we are sure based on legality, Senkaku is Japan, we would not do it because Japan must maintains defense only at this moment otherwise.ridiculously someone shoot Chinese Ship or plain the way you said, that office would need to go to the prison.

If you are so sure, why you have not given everyone your straight reply to Chamkun's questions. So many documents and printed materials have the fact which is very different from what China is saying today. Japan think China only got aggressive after the oil and would like to a free traffic for Chinese Navy to dominate the half of the pacific Ocean that China has already expressed that desire to US.

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Japan is a lawful country. Since we have article#9 in our constitution, Although we are sure based on legality, >Senkaku is Japan, we would not do it because Japan must maintains defense only at this moment >otherwise.ridiculously someone shoot Chinese Ship or plain the way you said, that office would need to go to the >prison.

If you are so sure, why you have not given everyone your straight reply to Chamkun's questions. So many >documents and printed materials have the fact which is very different from what China is saying today. Japan think >China only got aggressive after the oil and would like to a free traffic for Chinese Navy to dominate the half of the >pacific Ocean that China has already expressed that desire to US.

If japan wanted to blockade those ships, they certainly can without harming them.. there are ways to do that.

If you look at my postings, I leave the legal battles to other posters who are more knowledgeable about laws. I only collected those links and peruse them at my own leisure and try to learn something by doing more research. Others have discussed about Treaties this and that.. which nullified any japanese claims, 1895 this and that..map this and that.. as administrator this and that. The point is: both sides have their own claims.

My point was as you can see from a post I quoted from a japanese professor, and the history has been widely known: "Zhou and Tanaka met, and Tanaka broached this subject because he wanted to solve this problem, and Zhou said: buddy, lets leave it to the future who may be wiser than us...this is not the right time.. and Tanaka agreed.

It is in Dispute.. and what china has said and asked all along these months and recent years is for japan is to acknowledge that the islands is in Dispute.

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Japanese historians debated that Senkaku was part of Ryuku not the Chain Island of Formosa/Taiwan. Therefore it has nothing to do with Sino-Japanese war treaty. Fine! Japan annexed Ryuku as their part in 1874. Why did they have to wait until 1895 to claim that Islet as their own? Distance and History made them reluctant back then. There were many years Gap from 1874 to1895. In 1895, Japan expansion was getting highly momentum.

That same year they grabbed that Taiwan and surrounding area. Whether that land grab occurred prior to Taiwan annexation or not, it is not logical and credible why they waited so long! If they have annexed together with Ryuku, there will be no more debates and doubts. In fact there were some conspiracy about that issue.

However all parties can cool and calm down for getting common ground, there will be better tomorrows.

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Here is what china wanted.. i just did a search:

"...

"To solve the dispute, Japan needs to face history. The Japanese government has not only denied the dispute, but also refused to acknowledge an agreement to shelve the dispute reached by the former leaders of the two countries in the 1970s.

Forty years ago, when China and Japan normalized their diplomatic relations, former Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai and visiting Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka agreed that priority should be placed on the overall interests of bilateral ties, with the Diaoyu Islands dispute to be shelved until a later date."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-10/11/c_131900504.htm

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Mano2012

To solve the dispute, Japan needs to face history

I agree. Then how do you explain the fabrication of China's historical facts? The details of Chamkun, you have not given your straight answer yet. The history you are talking about has a lot of deceptions as well. Japan has or will accept the facts but not the whole story China and Korea have said. A lot of fabrication and selective information. Even the same story from  China 30 years ago about you call history is more expanded today about Japan. Japan should not have any apology till the neutral historians from the 3rd world get involved to finalize what happen in the last century. Then Japan must take a responsibility but not what China and Korea say today. You guys need to study the history not deceptions based on the history. Japan has made a colossal kind of mistake from Murayama and Kouno talk.

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Agree! a few months ago Taiwan already proposed that all parties to go to ICJ to finalize this issue, however, JP refused and no reply from CN for this suggestion till date.

False.

First, a non U.N. member (Taiwan) has to get an approval from the Security Council in order to file a claim to ICJ. Taiwan has not. In other words, such proposal that you claim isn't even a "proposal" until Taiwan makes this move.

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We have a saying in the old country: give them a finger and the'll take the whole arm. or in the U.S. we say, give them an inch and they will take a foot. China is acting like a bully who is trying to get ALL of the south islands. They should not be allowed to get any of the disputed islands, otherwise, mark my words, they will take the whole area. - remember Tibet - I wish Japan will continue to show resolve. Good Luck!

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Hey mano...you keep talking about Japan losing the war of "chess" over the Senakaku Islands by pointing to old EU and SEA as proof. But here is the thing, in real politik only the US really matters, they back Japan. The EU are weak and unable to do much. Those in SEA are also not in favor of China as most have similar disputes over islands in their own water. China is like a sudden power doomed to fade quickly. The US will still be ther power.

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There is no historical narrative of Senkaku/Diaoyu islands which has been accepted by both sides. The problem is with nationalist perceptions of history is a political issue. The average Japanese and the average Chinese have two very different viewpoints on what happened during the history of hostilities. I don't see a leader from either side who is open-minded and willing and courageous enough to bridge the gap on the island dispute. There should be more of political leadership so that things don't continue tear relations. Because a conflict will contiue to affect both countries, and the emotions won't change what happened long ago.

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Time to throw Article 9 out the door. Until then, China will not take Japan seriously.

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What if Japan calls on China to halt entries into disputed waters. I am sure China won't be stupid starting a WWIII that will be our Doomsday.

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