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China defends patrols near disputed islands

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China you are trespassing in our waters. Your using primitive tactics and trying to get Japan to make a move so you can have a little attack and take the islands by force, that way if Japan attacks first in a incident the U.S does not have to defend the islands.... Is that your little communist plan?

Just a word of advice China. Stop playing with fire.

8 ( +17 / -10 )

China are acting like a kid in the playground wanting attention - stomping its feet, sulking, and throwing around its weight while everyone else ignores them and rolls their eyes.

Let them patrol - as long as they don't actually go on the islands, they can do what they like legally (correct me If Im wrong.)

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Just a word of advice China. Stop playing with fire.

Or what? Isn't it time to stop playing games with this issue and sit down to resolve it like adults? Chest thumping threats are probably not going to end this thing.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Just a quick reminder, China, Japan alone has the world's 4 largest surface fleet as well as a very well-equiped submarine fleet. Not for nothing, but their main ally happens to have the world's largest navy and more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world, combined. Just a thought...

4 ( +10 / -6 )

In the 1930's Europe tried to placate Hitler and the rising German threat by just ignoring it, or by trying to see the good in it. They also saw the profit opportunity in it. China is no different in this case.

China is an obvious threat to her neighbors in Asia. It is not only Japan suffering under this problem, but Vietnam, the Philippines and Taiwan. If we placate China, or give them what they want, it will pour fuel on the fire of Chinese ambition and imperialism.

The response from us must be mature and measured. Do not provoke a fight. China must make the first negative move if it is to happen. But we cannot just back off either. Japan and the US need to take a stronger stance on the islands and on their treaty to support each other in the event of Chinese aggression. The same applies to the other nations under threat.

But it must go a step further. Japan and the US need to untie from China economically as much as possible. This dependency on food and materials is not beneficial to anyone other than the corporates. We should tie our investment and continued business with China to reforms in her political behavior and in her domestic repression.

If we fail to put out this threat now, while it is testing the resolve of the region, then we invite disaster. So we must use diplomacy, economics and our treaties to send a strong message to China. And I strongly believe that they will back off. If we do not, then war some day will become inevitable as it did with Germany.

13 ( +16 / -4 )

tkoind2 Nov. 01, 2012 - 07:35AM JST

Well thought out and informative comment. Good luck getting American corporate interests to buy into this idea.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Where is the J coast guard ? .................Where is all the USA hardware ????????? - - - - I thought the REASON the USA is occupying Okinawa is for the express purpose of standing i n defense of Japan . . . .

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

trying to build up military to generate economy - nothing more, nothing less.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

semperfiNov. 01, 2012 - 07:52AM JST

Where is the J coast guard ? .................Where is all the USA hardware ????????? - - - - I thought the REASON the USA is occupying Okinawa is for the express purpose of standing i n defense of Japan . . . .

You mentioned to defend Japan, right? Well then, where is the attack? I don't see any reason we'd be sending the 3rd or 7th fleet for this pathetic show by China.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I fully agree with tkoind2. 20 years ago China was a backwards nation, economically nothing. one disaster plan after another. Some stll wearing Mao suits, hole-in-the-ground toilets. We in the west thought "if we help China modernize, then the people's standard of living will rise and they will want democracy. And the Chinese government will loosen it's totalitarian grip and China will join the community of nations". Deng Xiao Ping himself asked the founder of Panasonic to open a factory in China and help them, modernize. Guess what?? China made tons of money, instead of a growing middle class they got the wealty and the poor, and they threw all their money into building a war machine to threaten all of Asia and to openly challenge the United States. They instituted a Japan-hating forced "Patriotic Education" system and the mobs smashed the Panasonic factories in China. Instead of becoming a responsible member of the international community they have become a self serving one party dictatorship conducting a soft-war of propaganda and lies ("Peaceful Rise") throughout the world. Can China be trusted? Some members of their military openly talk of war and the need to be more assertive. At the same time they harp on Imperial Japan of 70 years ago, and we were "historically victimized" by the west as if that justifies their behavior today. In the eyes of ythe world, it doesn't. And their supporters are blind to the fact that this mirors exactly what was going on in Japan ater 1920 and we all know where that lead. China's territorial and military expansion needs to be stopped now while it still can, before everyone in the world, including the Chinese people find themselves in a situation they will regret.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Senkaku islands belong to Japan, they are part of Okinawa.

We are waiting for the first blow from Communist China. It is just a matter of time

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

If China has a beef, why don't they take up the island issue with U.S.? Japan is only following the conditions set by U.S. of the agreement on administering the islands. China is still stuck in the 19th century and cannot move forward.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I doubt there would be an escalation of war, it is simply a political stance of both countries since war could ruin the regional economy .

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Looking at the past patterns, it becomes quite clear that China does not value long term friendship. It has switched or abandoned its friends when it is convenient or useful to do so. In China’s case, West has never been considered China's a true friend and China has always looked at Japan as a potential adversary. For Japan and the other western powers a balkanized China in more useful. If China can be incited to start a war with Japan, America has a lot to gain. China should see through the western plans and China should get rid of the past war histories and accept the realities of the present world. The equations between the East and the West have fundamentally changed. The 21st century is bound to be Asia’s century. China should try to solve the border problem with the principles of equality and mutual respect.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

kimuzukashii:

" Let them patrol - as long as they don't actually go on the islands, "

...but they will do exactly that, unless the Japanese stop them. Just like they have done with Vietnamese and Philippine owned islands before. Look away one monment, and suddenly you have Chinese forces and radio towers on the islands.

One moment of weakness, and Japan will have the Vietnamese/Philippine experience.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

China is a pragmatic state which means certain issues are postponed or even settled to fulfill important priorities and since both countries economies are interdependent to serve a common purpose, war is unacceptable.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

tokind2:

" But it must go a step further. Japan and the US need to untie from China economically a "

Tell that to the American politicians (of both parties) whose spending programs depend on borrowed money from China. Good luck with that. My bet is that the potus (whoever it is) will throw Japan under the bus and favour his banker.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

3200 billion dollars of bank reserves china is compelled to buy america's treasury bonds to sustain the dollar.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei says the patrols constitute normal activity to exercise jurisdiction and should not be criticized.

Jurisdiction over what exactly? Maybe Japan needs to exercise jurisdiction over Taiwan again.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Bring it on China, throw the first punch and watch the world hate you even more.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@kimuzukashii

Let them patrol - as long as they don't actually go on the islands, they can do what they like legally (correct me If Im wrong.)

Legally, to a certain extent. As long as there isn't an ongoing war, countries aren't too massively uptight regarding contiguous waters, so while technically trespassing, having the Chinese ships "patrolling" isn't enough to be worth starting anything over.

Now, actually and intentionally landing troops on the island would certainly be an invasion, meaning an act of war. It would also be tactically and strategically foolish.

@taro67

Well thought out and informative comment. Good luck getting American corporate interests to buy into this idea.

It's actually not a question of getting them to "buy" into it. There isn't any sales pitch or favors being asked. In business, one of the forces one must always consider is the environment, and part of the environment is the political stability. No matter how cheap the labor, if the political environment is unstable, you will not have a reliable source, and if you do not have a reliable source, your business plans have an exploitable (and potentially expensive) weakness. China would not be the first time corporations have cut their losses and abandoned a factory when the price of failure vs the stability of profit was deemed too large a risk. It would, however, be the biggest, and if it actually comes to that, there will be no gradual pull-out. In an economic blink of an eye, China would find its reputation as a good place for investing to disappear, and once reputation like that is gone, it is extremely difficult to recover. In China's case, doubly so.

@semper fi

Where is the J coast guard ? .................Where is all the USA hardware ?????????

Sailing around nearby.

I thought the REASON the USA is occupying Okinawa is for the express purpose of standing i n defense of Japan . .

Well, you were wrong. The reason the US is "occupying" Japan (in the same way your roommate is "occupying" the apartment you share) is to project a presence in the Asia-Pacific area, which helps to stabilize the region, and which is doing its job pretty well (or does anyone think China's military would have been reluctant otherwise to invade some of the disputed zones with the countries around it?) Now, if anyone does actually attack Japan, yes, of course the US is going to get directly involved.

@WilliB

" Let them patrol - as long as they don't actually go on the islands, "

...but they will do exactly that, unless the Japanese stop them. Just like they have done with Vietnamese and Philippine owned islands before. Look away one monment, and suddenly you have Chinese forces and radio towers on the islands.

That would actually be a best case scenario, in terms of war. We wouldn't even have to counterattack. All the Japanese and American ships would have to do at that point is create a blockade around the waters. The islands can be easily isolated, both physically and electronically. The troops on the island can literally do nothing but wait around, effectively imprisoned; We don't even have to fly in and pick them up, and there is little they could do if we did, as the islands are not very defensible. Short of actively attacking the carrier group (which China does not really have the capability of doing effectively), there is little China could do but shout and demand their soldiers back, at which point they would be all but required to go to the international courts and present their argument and justification, which they really do not want to do.

Tell that to the American politicians (of both parties) whose spending programs depend on borrowed money from China. Good luck with that. My bet is that the potus (whoever it is) will throw Japan under the bus and favour his banker.

There is an old saying: "If one person owes many people money, that person should be worried. But if many people owe one person money, that person should also be worried."

1 ( +3 / -2 )

basroil:

" All the Japanese and American ships would have to do at that point is create a blockade around the waters. "

Oh please. You seriously think that Obama is going to use US assets to help Japan in an island dispute with China? Heck, without Chinese money he could not even buy the fuel for those warships. Not to mention that he plans to scrap most of them anyway. Stop dreaming.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

kimuzukashiiiiiNov. 01, 2012 - 07:23AM JST

Let them patrol - as long as they don't actually go on the islands, they can do what they like legally (correct me If Im wrong.)

You are very wrong. Up to 12 nautical miles is still Japanese territory under international laws (though aircraft may still use it), even if they aren't on the island. It's like comparing your back yard to your house, sure it would be worse for them to go into the house, but do you want them playing with fireworks in your lawn? Hell, it's trespassing any way you look at it .

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh please. You seriously think that Obama is going to use US assets to help Japan in an island dispute with China? Heck, without Chinese money he could not even buy the fuel for those warships. Not to mention that he plans to scrap most of them anyway. Stop dreaming.

Gotta love deluded nationalists.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There isn't any sales pitch or favors being asked.

Corporations lobby Congress - and apparently Obama directly - constantly, spending billions of USD to make sure they are "taken care of." Washington is nothing if not a city where sales pitches are made and favors given every day. China has 1.3 billion potential consumers which sure is tempting to those companies. There is also a large natural gas reserve just waiting to be developed and many US companies are biding their time waiting to see who comes out ahead on the Senkaku issue. Remember, it's a global economy. How patriotic do you expect American companies to be and especially over problems in Japan?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I think everyone forgot to mention that China has already won due to the fact they can freely patrol the island without interference from Japan..What can Japan due except to protest. The Europeans have not and will not support Japan's claim over the island and Japanese Former Minster's request for support from Britain, France, and Germany were flatly rejected during his visit couple of weeks ago. The Europeans will not support Japan's claim because most European's support China's claim over the island and China is their number 1 trading partner..So what is Japan going to do? China is hoping for Japanese forces to fire the first shot at Chinese boats so China can take military action..If Japanese ships fire the first shot, the US will not support them since the Treaty between US and Japan is an "defensive agreement" and not an "offensive agreement" therefore if Japanese forces fire the first shot at Chinese boats then Obama and the US will have a reason not to support Japan over these islands.

I think Japan's is in a bind..Japanese right wingers started this mess and unfortunately for Japan, I think China has an upper hand on this problems..

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

i agree that Obama and US will not support Japan over these islands..The US cannot afford another war..Americans are sick of war and the cost associated with it..Back home, most of my friends and family are either not aware of the issue or don't care..The US media pays very little attention to this issue..When I ask my friends about their thoughts over the island, they respond "what issue"..most cannot even find Japan on the map..

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

"If one person owes many people money, that person should be worried. But if many people owe one person money, that person should also be worried."

Kind of a wordy old saying.

That said, the US owes many people money so it should be worried....right? Isn't that what the old saying says?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Let the shooting start. Sink all the PRC ships. I doubt that PRC navy have assets to counter JMSDF submarine activities.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Japan, now you know how other people and neighbors felt when you screwed them during WW2. Now, you have no conscience, you have no substance, you are a fake country with fake people, you're just a puppet of the USA. It's about time big brother takes on the other twin(USA), so stay out of the way.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I believe, Japan right wingers did not started the mess since Vietnam, Phillipines, Tibet had problems. Remember about the video incident colliding with Japanese Coast Guard. It was the beginning. Actually, Tibet vanished as a country since it had no defence forces ;( They start sending survellance missions to test if the nation are weak. Communism will try to absorb Asia, next Africa, then Europe and in the end Russia. There is still time to save our planet from this destiny and destruction.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Patience, patience. China is a historically violent country with unstable ethnic groups, ignore her and let history repeat itself.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China will collapse within a decade as the growing middle class demand more freedom of expression and liberty. Another Tiananmen Square will arrive soon, and the PRC will not be able to stop it this time. Good riddance, although I pity for poor peasants who will bear the brunt of this nonsense.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So Japan and the US can have naval games a month ago but China can't not? Come on get serious Japan you look stupid.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei says the patrols constitute normal activity to exercise jurisdiction and should not be criticized."

Har...har...har... who is criticizing who and cries a lot concerning the disputed islands ?????? As gogogo would say.... China, you look stupid

0 ( +0 / -0 )

semperfiNOV. 01, 2012 - 07:52AM JST Where is the J coast guard ? .................Where is all the USA hardware ????????? - - - - I thought the REASON the USA is occupying Okinawa is for the express purpose of standing i n defense of Japan . . . .

that's all just "gung-ho talk" found on JT forum. 'murika!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ cabadaje

Now if anyone does attack Japan yes of corse the Isis going to directly involved

You have brought up an interesting comment. What do you think US would do if the conflict is between Japan and Korea over the Dokdo island. Your intelligent comment would be most appreciated.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@ cabadaje

Now if anyone does attack Japan yes of course the US is going to directly involved

You have brought up an interesting comment. What do you think the US would do if the conflict is between Japan and Korea over the Dokdo Island. Your intelligent comment would be most appreciated.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Bring it on China, throw the first punch and watch the world hate you even more.

It's not gonna happen though. China will try to push Japan aside using economic means.

"This month, during my first return to Japan in a decade, I put that assertion to an English friend who had lived even longer in Tokyo. “That’s about right,” he said, “battered by deflation and a overly strong currency, the Japanese have concluded that they can’t compete with a rising China and are withdrawing into themselves.” "

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-is-in-worse-than-a-deflationary-trap-2012-11-01

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Some of these comments are fasinating. A major distortion to history and is reflective of the ignorance and prejudices. We may need a major revamp of our enducation system.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

From the start of the Qin dynasty (around 250 BC), China has always been a superpower on planet Earth. Only with the Manchu Qing dynasty, China gradually lost this superpower status due to nationalistic internal politics and losing to the Meiji Japanese Empire, which started to apply natural scientific principles into its politics! The common Chinese man is still frustrated about that... China can only be prosperous again like during the Tang and Ming dynasties, if it is trying to make a common East-Asian Union like the European Union. The same can be said about the present Japanese government... Every political move like the US military bases in Okinawa and Jeju are in the way of peace and prosperity in East Asian countries!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The common Chinese man should understand that the weak Qing dynasty lost to the modern Meiji Empire! So the Chinese government can lay no claim on the senkaku islands! Chinese stubbornness is due to cropped up nationalism and frustration around the WWII, when it became painfully clear that after the Qing Dynasty, China became a second rank country a way behind the West and Japan! Now, Japan in its turn should be worried now not to become a second rank country at the end of the 21st century!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So the propaganda campaign for war is revving up. Report on every move the other side is making and make it seem dangerous. Dehumanize each other despite our similarities and contributions to each other. Likely happening on both sides as tensions escalate. Who wins? Don't be sheep. No one wins in a war especially economically. It will not be as relatively quick or painful as in the Middle East either. Everyone in East Asia will be in harm's way. Don't use war as an excuse to make yourself feel better about your own lives.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's "normal" exercise, don't mind the critics then. Do what a sovereign needs to do with sovereignty.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Here is a theory. What if the US is behind all these disputes and China is just trying to struggle through. Philippines, Vietnam, India, and Japan all require supports from the US through the treaties and arm sales thinking that if they all get together and have the Big Brother behind their backs they should be safe. The US is trying to contain China according to various media sources. Fears of the uncertainties have been created and promoted aggressively against China. They fear China because it is growing at alarming rates in terms of the economy and military powers; it lacks human rights and the rules of laws; and it is becoming more and more aggressive against its neighbors. But If you look at it more closely. Every country has dispute with other countries more or less. China is just trying to protect itself when it is cornered. It has massive population that cannot be united without the centralized government and effective armed controls. Outside interference will have quite an impact on the internal stability. Its policies have been to slowly open up to the market economy and free movements. A lot have been improved including the living conditions and I know there are still a lot more to improve on. China used to be self-sufficient in terms energy but now it is a net importer of natural resources. It needs oil to fuel its massive economy using any means as necessary. Therefore, it’s been seen as aggressive. We don’t see the US to be aggressive when it went into Iraq and Afghanistan, a lot of people died and suffered for years. A game is being played here and we don’t see behind the curtain. Now we all fear that if we let it China would take over Asia and then the world and we would all be living without freedom eating only rice then.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

China is just trying to protect itself when it is cornered

Oh well that's alright then.

Now if only those stubborn Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and Filipinos would understand...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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