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China-Japan views worst in almost a decade: survey

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Understandable.

But how about international views? I have a worse view of China since last year, as does most of ASEAN and US. I don't think anyone else around the world views Japan as any worse, except Korea and their even northern twin.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

I, for one, am completely shocked by these results.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The ww2 never left the minds of Chinese people.

Many people even would like to donate the life to the blood feud they called against Japan.

A young man even almost killed another person only because he was driving a car from Toyota, this is well known by all and a lot of people support the killer.

The dispute islets just lighted the fuse.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

This is confusing

More than a third of Chinese said 'there will be military conflict in the future', the paper said, but nearly half of the Japanese surveyed did not expect a maritime conflict.

So, 33% of Chinese said 'there will be conflict...' BUT 50% of Japanese '(do) not expect...a conflict'

This is set as a contrast, like Japan is less convinced, but does this mean 50% of Japanese DO expect a conflict?

The left out stat is the one that I would like to know.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Who cares? EVERYONE knows China is dirty, people have zero manners and they copy everything. On the other side we have Japan. The complete opposite.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

China should remember that the Izumo (the Japanese battleship that invaded China during the Second Sino-Japanese War) endured attacks by Chinese aircraft and Chinese torpedo boats. China couldn't sink it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Most Japanese are puzzled about what the Chinese want to achieve with the islands. If the stalemate continues, economic relation will just deteriorate. It is a lose lose case. If China takes the islands with military power, it will lose all the economic relationship with Japan. It looks to me another lose lose case. If China brings to case to ICJ, I think they have a good chance of winning. But it seems they have no interest in that option. What do they really want to do?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

'The two countries’ relationship remains soured by Japan’s brutal occupation of China before and during World War II."

So the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Friendship signed in 1972 concluded between J-PM Tanaka. Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai, which was again reaffirmed in 1978 means nothing today?

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Most Japanese are puzzled about what the Chinese want to achieve with the islands. If the stalemate continues, economic relation will just deteriorate. It is a lose lose case. If China takes the islands with military power, it will lose all the economic relationship with Japan. It looks to me another lose lose case. If China brings to case to ICJ, I think they have a good chance of winning. But it seems they have no interest in that option. What do they really want to do?

China is Japan's biggest trading partner, both import and export. China's biggest exports are the EU, imports Japan. They both have a lot to lose, but arguably Japan will lose more.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

its the little things like, "maybe we should amend that last apology" or "we needed sex slaves to maintain discipline" that keep these wounds open. i know theres a lot more at play here, but keeping your trap shut on issues like these would be a good start to friendlier relations.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Thomas AndersonAug. 08, 2013 - 08:25PM JST

China is Japan's biggest trading partner, both import and export. China's biggest exports are the EU, imports Japan. They both have a lot to lose, but arguably Japan will lose more.

Yes, that is why I called it a lose lose case. What do they want to achieve?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I think the blame for the resent attitude can be found in China. Of course people got hurt during the war. But what have the Chinese government done to try to help the people to overcome these memories? It is common knowledge that people in somewhat pre-modern villages, I suspect there are a few in China, are experts at keeping stories of bad blood for long times. It is up to the government to educate the population to think differently. So why is late modern Japan a bad thing in China? I think the political leaders have used the bad feelings for power and to try to create unity, identity and stability. Its easier to get along if we all hate the outsider. My point: China is keeping the fire burning for domestic reasons and Abes and Japans moves is just a teaspoon of fuel every now and then.However Japans new "not yet an F35 carrier" ship could be a new chapter in the political brawl. By pointing finger on Japans new toy/toys China can expand with more toys in the quiet.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Not sure what an opinion poll conducted in an authoritarian dictatorship where all media is state controlled is really worth. There would be something really wrong if it did not support official government position and policy. In contrast Japan's media is not state controlled and the information made available is essentially the same as available to the rest of the world, all of which has a very negative of view of China today.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

@CH3CHO

Maybe for China, Japan's products become the oppositer for China's producer.

And the islets buying is just a fuse. And the empty that Japan left had been filled by producer from Korea and China.

See, it is a good oppotunity.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CH3CHO

Yes, that is why I called it a lose lose case. What do they want to achieve?

What does Japan want to achieve??

OssanAmerica

In contrast Japan's media is not state controlled and the information made available is essentially the same as available to the rest of the world, all of which has a very negative of view of China today.

That's the scariest thing, despite NOT being state-controlled, Japan is ranked 53rd in the freedom of press index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

1 ( +7 / -6 )

OssanAmericaAug. 08, 2013 -Not sure what an opinion poll conducted in an authoritarian dictatorship where all media is state controlled is really worth.

I've to admire chinese people that eventhough they still could get enough outside information!

OssanAmericaAug. 08, 2013 - In contrast Japan's media is not state controlled and the information made available is essentially the same as available to the rest of the world

I also have to admire Jp government that eventhough they still can brainwash japanese so successfully!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

OssanAmerica most of the world's media is comtrolled by media organisations which have close links to the military (check out the American scene) so one wonders how unbiased the media in western countries actually is. That is not to say that China is better but you need to take things which you read with a grain of salt.

Media organisations are controlled by media clubs of which one can be thrown out of if you don't follow the line. They area in most prefectures. And foreigners aren't allowed to join them hence the existence of the Foreign Press Club to represent the interests of foreign interests.

I am not sure just how independant NHK is either but I have my doubts given their way of presenting the facts. They seem to go out of their way to paint China in a bad light but it isn't surprising given their history in the past. On the other hand China's media seems to be focused on the past.

It would be good for them to sort their problems out by themselves but given the childlishness of both sides this does not seem possible.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What do the Japanese and supporters of Senkaku think about the fact that Taiwan also claims ownership of these islands? There must be more to it than Chinese making ridiculous territorial claims, if the cool-headed and pro-Japan Taiwan also makes such claims.

Here is a Taiwanese perspective on the Senkaku/Diaoyu issue, for anyone interested:

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-the-diaoyusenkaku-islands/?_r=0

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

IRobin

Japan was the biggest provider of ODA fund to PRC from the 80's up until the '00s adding up to 30 trillion yen.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/gaiko/oda/seisaku/kondankai/senryaku/21_shiryo/pdfs/shiryo_2_1.pdf

The aid money was essential in developing much of the nation's infrastructure that became the foundation of PRC's economic rise we see today. Japan also provided various technological assistance in which was crucial in developing what now is the world's factory.

And before speculating, yes it was loan but no PRC had not paid back not even one third of what she had borrowed. It was time when no other nations was willing to lend to PRC when Japan offered help.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@SamuraiBlue,

Abviously that is no enough. Actually, before the buying of islets Japan and China have a good relationship of economy.

But indeed, Chinese people all like recall history, we can find out this from TV Series and Movies. This is their fault.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In contrast Japan's media is not state controlled and the information made available is essentially the same as available to the rest of the world, all of which has a very negative of view of China today.

That's the scariest thing, despite NOT being state-controlled, Japan is ranked 53rd in the freedom of press index.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

Japan ranked below South Korea for freedom of the press? But South Koreans are supposed to be brainwashed by their government? Anybody..?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Mitch Cohen

If study the chart Japan was higher than Korea in 2012 and earlier. The chart is probably reflecting the recent TEPCO nuclear fiasco.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

the increasing role of technology and social media, and how they affect daily life, i think can be the basic reason as well for the result of this survey, but i think life still goes on as it is, sometimes politicians on both sides need to change their strategy for a more friendlier and mutual rather than unilateral actions and strategies when it comes to issues that in the end can affect the economy of both.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My job depends to a large degree on trade with China and the bile-spewing from both sides irritates the hell out of me. After years of living in Japan and the same amount of time dealing with Chinese people and visiting China I've always been struck by the similarities rather than the differences of the mindsets. Grow up.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Mitch Cohen

What do the Japanese and supporters of Senkaku think about the fact that Taiwan also claims ownership of these islands? There must be more to it than Chinese making ridiculous territorial claims, if the cool-headed and pro-Japan Taiwan also makes such claims.

Here is a Taiwanese perspective on the Senkaku/Diaoyu issue, for anyone interested:

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-the-diaoyusenkaku-islands/?_r=0

So to make a point you have to bring a link to a blog that is nearly a year old of Nicholas Kristof who has a grudge against Japan? My my, do you really need to scrape the bottom of the barrel?

Here is the Japanese version of Wiki of your beloved Nicholas Kristof and it isn't nice.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%8B%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9%E3%83%BB%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%95

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The best way to improve relations with mainland China is to push for free multiparty elections, on a realistic timetable, say, for 2014. After their newly elected Congress is sworn in, they will hopefully be swearing in to a brand new constitution. Minister Aso is aware of some historic precedent for that in Germany; might work in China. Now, Hu's up for it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China should not interfere in the domestic policies of another country.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Déjà vu again, “China should not interfere in the domestic policies of another country.” China has the strictest policy on not interfering in other countries’ domestic affairs. By the way, this is from China Daily: “The findings show that 92.8 percent of Chinese surveyed hold a negative attitude toward Japan, 28 percentage points higher than last year. Similarly, 90.1 percent of ordinary Japanese have negative feelings toward China, in contrast to 84.3 percent last year.” See the numbers in the above article, something wrong here?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Taiwan has proposed submitting the dispute to international jurisdiction, but Japan is only willing to submit the Dokdo/Takeshima dispute to the International Court of Justice, while maintaining that "no dispute exists" over the Diaoyutai/Senkaku Islands. This double-standard is contrary to the spirit of the universality of the Rule of Law.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

As a government it is in their duties to acknowledge the wrongdoings of their forefathers and help prevent such things from occurring again. Unfortunately, the same history has countless, consistent denial by high-ranking Japanese officials denying that sadistic war time crimes ever took place. Japan has been unwavering in upholding as their national heroes, the war criminals of WWII, where their highest ranking officials pay offical hommage to. Japan is a different story of being the victim. Why did Abe visited Yasukuni shrine last year and 168 representives of Japan goverment went to pray for 14 Class A and 2 million Imperial Soldiers? Every year, and for many decades, visit by top Japanese goverment officials to Yasukuni has not changed. This is far from being apologetic, but a slap in the face of the neighboring countries with a clear expression of "i'm not that sorry." Making a statement, then following it up with actions that go directly against this statement, naturally will not be taken at face value.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Who cares? EVERYONE knows China is dirty, people have zero manners and they copy everything. On the other side we have Japan. The complete opposite

.My husband is Japanese, I lived in Tokyo 11 years and I love the country but even I have to call BS on this. My father collapsed and died suddenly whilst travelling with my Mum through China in 2001. Mum didnt speak a word of Chinese and had no idea what to do or what was going on. My brother and I flew out there as quickly as we could, but in the interim 2 days or so between his initial collapse and us arriving, and once we had arrived, the Chinese people we encountered were incredibly kind and caring, very concerned and willing to help in any way they could.

This in stark contrast to some of my experiences in Japan over the years. So please - dont base your opinions of Chinese on a bunch of tourists pushing and shoving through Odaiba. There is good and bad wherever you go.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's a historical fact the Island originally belonged to China and Japan took possession in the first Sino-Japan War which they won and reaffirmed their ownership once again when they remained victorious in the second Sino-Japan War as well. Lets turn the table around for a minute and say China won both wars and captured one of Japan's territory and refuse to return it after so many years. Adding insult to injury lets say China sends out a oil research vessels to begin drilling and announces the completion of one of the largest Aircraft carrier to be specifically used to increase their defense of the Island. What should Japan do at this point? Would or should Japan just stand idly by while territory that was once theres is being exploited by foreign elements? Now going back to reality... logical and rational solution to resolve this extraordinary crisis is to peacefully return the Island back to China, that is the right way and the only way.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

ChibaChick Aug. 09, 2013 - 04:21AM JST the Chinese people we encountered were incredibly kind and caring, very concerned and willing to help in any way they could. This in stark contrast to some of my experiences in Japan over the years. So please - dont base your opinions of Chinese on a bunch of tourists pushing and shoving through Odaiba. There is good and bad wherever you go.

The Senkaku/Daiyou problem is a conflict between two goverment, and not the private citizens or businesses. How is the Japanese companies operating inside China related to the island dispute? Does Chinese goverment have a right to destroy any foreign companies operating inside China? After the Chinese fishing trawler incident, there were reportly over $100 million dollars damages to the Japanese businesses in China. Did you see any looting and damaging of Chinese businesses in Japan? What is a purpose of long term investment planning by these foreign companies if Chinese goverment does not give them security? The Chinese goverment didn't do nothing to stop it but encouraged it to create major damages to their businesses. There was widespread destruction of Japanese businesses in China.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

sfjp330 - absolutely, which is why I said it. Pls refer to pizzatimes comment I was commenting on so you can understand accurately what Im trying to say because you have clearly missed the point.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

tokyodoumo--

I'm not quite sure your point. Japan took control over the islands after winning a victory in a war and via a legal treaty between the two countries. But somehow Japan should just give back the islands......just because?

To the victors goes the spoils, no?

By your rationale, China should give back Tibet and all the other land that it "stole" through violent conquest.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

.......while Japan says its neighbors use history as a diplomatic stick to beat it with...lol ...I just love that statement. It is both funny and true.

Take most countries....Japan - USA - China - Russia - Germany......All have done horrible things during times of war. However after several decades...numerous leader/policies changes...etc. One would think that we would not be under the "Sins of the Father" clause anymore.

We all have scars that as a nation we should never forget but we should not be defined by what our ancestors did 70 years ago but more so by what we do now. As they say "The Future is in Our Hands" and I truly hope a physical conflict is not a part of it.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@hsien90210

Twice you've written that Taiwan has tried to take the Senkaku issue before the ICJ but that Japan has refused. Dince Taiwan is not party to the ICJ and not a member of the UN they can not take an issue to the ICJ. Perhaps you can enlighten us with a link to something reliable that supports you claim?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

japan's provocative politics has played a major role in worsening relations. Aso's idiotic comments, visits to the Yasukuni shrine. Japanese politicians would know that these actions will be used as propoganda by the Chinese, but they still coninue to act irrationally. They cannot see past their own borders. All they think about is gaining domestic supporters. This shortsightedness will be Japan's downfall

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Japan's current position is there is "no dispute" over the islands.

You can easily find the information regarding Japan's refusal to bring the senkaua issue to ICJ online. I posted the link twice already but all got deleted by the moderator, not sure why.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

hsien90210

Japan's current position is there is "no dispute" over the islands.

Quite correct and since Japan believes that there are no dispute of legality of possess, Japan is not the one to put it forward to ICJ, it is the nation(s) that has a dispute over Japan's claim that are required to push it forward to ICJ. In which case the nation would require to make request(demand) to Japan to participate in the hearings.

I have not read or heard of any formal request from any nation forwarded towards the Japanese government to make it a case at ICJ so until then Japan's position stands that there are no dispute over the islands.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

China won't take it to the ICJ because they know full we'll they will lose. Island disputes are convenient way for the Party to keep the masses doped up on nationalism and deflect attention away from mounting internal pressures. Beijing needs the disputes to continue far more than they need the actual islands they are contesting.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Thomas AndersonAug. 08, 2013 - 09:49PM JST

CH3CHO

Yes, that is why I called it a lose lose case. What do they want to achieve?

What does Japan want to achieve??

The islands are not important for most of the Japanese. The probable deposit near the islands is not important, either. What is important for most of the Japanese is how the issue is solved and the ramification to Taiwan and Okinawa due to the short distance to the islands. Giving the islands to China through negotiation or ICJ arbitration is just OK, as long as that will not lead to further action by China to grab Okinawa or attack Taiwan. Military invasion by China to the islands is unacceptable since that will set a bad precedent. What Japan want to achieve is, as I observe, solving the issue as soon as possible without ending in those bad results.

China should have taken the case to ICJ when PM Noda called for use of ICJ at the UN general assembly last September. It is much easier for the government to give up a government-owned island than a privately owned island.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The commentary also urged Japan to "never forget the fate of the previous Izumo," a World War II vessel which was "destroyed by U.S. forces on July 24, 1945 and buried for good with Japanese fascism."

So, they're saying that, for all their bluster, when push comes to shove, they'll run and hide behind the U.S. skirt again? Nice to be prepared for that...

Joking aside, everything they do is to make up for the hurt pride of the Opium Wars, before which they thought they were the most powerful nation on Earth and Mandated by Heaven to rule it. That some upstart barbarians showed them the door without any real effort is the greatest unforgivable sin. Now that the European powers have withdrew, China won't rest until they've regained what they lost and the tributary system is in full force. And since, in that system, their neighbors aren't equals, but subjects, why negotiate with them?

The Senkaku issue has nothing to do with WWII at all, at least for the apparatchik, or the Sino-Japanese Wars. It's that Japan dare challenge them as equals.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

On a world stage I think China should worry less about what Japan thinks of it and worry more and fixing problems inside its own borders. The world is watching and I'm sure human rights, poor construction, tainted food production, etc. are far more real and everyday events that affect Chinese people in China then the past wars or perceived threat that Japan will attack China again.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The commentary also urged Japan to “never forget the fate of the previous Izumo”, a World War II vessel which was “destroyed by U.S. forces on July 24, 1945 and buried for good with Japanese fascism :

so funny- the Izumo was used for training since it was a WWI style cruiser - by the end of the war it would have been turned into either scrap or a museum piece over here- all depending on history of the ship.

gotta love the Chinese on the way their propaganda wagon rolls

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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