Chinese naval fleet seen off northern Japan

Japan is adding fuel to the fire. Japan has to be decisive. They have to state clearly that those islands are Japanese territory and plant a flag and a lighthouse with the Japanese flag on top. They should do this before China gets any stronger because - mark my words - waiting for China to get stronger is going to make the whole thing much much worse.

So China and Russia have no RIGHTS to move their navies in international waters in THEIR OWN PART OF THE WORLD???????? Time for Japan, the USA etc..to GROW UP! Say, the USA and Mexico, or the USA and Canada had joint naval excersices off San Diego?? Or off NYC?? Would this scare China and Russia??

So what if they do sail past those INTERNATIONAL WATERS? Everyone can do that. I can get my sail boat and sail through it without caring or addressing anyone's concern. That's why they are international waters.

And they announced this drill months ago. Everyone knows what's going on. What can 5 so-so warships do to Japan? And those antiquated Russian warships, what can they do?

If Japan and USN can hold drills in the region, so can anyone else. In this day and age, do you still think 1st island or 2nd island chains are meant to contain China and Russia? Maybe in the 80s or 90s. Now everyone got precision guided mid-range missiles and stealth fighters. Its no longer required for anyone to break-through any chains. My guess is those Russian and Chinese subs do this all the time. Otherwise, these warships won't traverse so freely without concerns. Its the ones you don't see that you should worry about.

When push comes to shoves, if Russia and China decided to join forces and go against Japan and US, the world will be over anyways. So why bothers.

Quite a long winded way to say tit for tat. How many decades has it taken for China to return the favor for America, via Japanese aiding and abetting, being in China's face constantly all that time? I don't think we should go reading too much into this.

Japan should get used to it. Regardless of the reasons, the Chinese vessels were in the international waters and they have every right to be there. U.S. vessels does the same in close proximity to mainland China.

The legality isn't in dispute. What isn't being understood is that isn't an innocent move by China, it's a calculated deliberate act. They have pushed it as close to line as they could without actually crossing over it and giving Japan cause to make some reciprocal act. So while Japan has no grounds to act, having foreign warships pass within sight of your coast does certainly cause some concern.

And of course Japan and the US have done the same in the past and will do the same again in the future. Not so much sailing ships within visual distance of China's coast as that's a risky move to make with hundreds of lives and billions of dollars of hardware, but certainly that have flown reconnaissance aircraft over China and engaged in frequent exercises. It's just how the game is played, and China has made a deliberate and bold move.

The Wild Turkey Jul. 16, 2013 - 07:46AM JST China previously hasn't sent any forces north around Japanese territory, to my knowledge, and it is not an ideal route to take to access the Pacific Ocean as it puts them within range of land based aircraft from South Korean and Japanese bases

Japan should get used to it. Regardless of the reasons, the Chinese vessels were in the international waters and they have every right to be there. U.S. vessels does the same in close proximity to mainland China.

Everybody saying that there is no issue here is missing the point. A quick glance at a map tells you that these ships were NOT returning to China after the exercise. If they were, they would have traveled south west and sailed around the Korean peninsula. Instead they have traveled north east and sailed within sight of Hokkaido.

Why this is of significance is that naval maneuvers are one way that nations send subtle messages to each other. These aren't the sort of messages that you send via diplomats, but rather are calculated shows of force intended to remind the recipient that the sender is capable of armed action and projecting power towards the recipients territories. The stationing of US forces within Japan and the frequent exercises are also intended to send that sort of message to other nations within the East Asia region.

China previously hasn't sent any forces north around Japanese territory, to my knowledge, and it is not an ideal route to take to access the Pacific Ocean as it puts them within range of land based aircraft from South Korean and Japanese bases. This move by China is probably intended to send the message to Japan that even its northern territories are within range of Chinese power projection.

I thought all water was Chinese.

this might be the rare instance where you thought correctly.

The title of this article is misleading. In strict naval terminology, this group of ships would not constitute a fleet, perhaps a squadron, but not a fleet. A pair of destroyers alone without larger ships to escort do not comprise a fleet and do not even require a captain as commanding officer. A squadron would require a senior captain or perhaps a commodore, but a fleet would require an admiral. It is highly doubtful that any officer ranking higher than a senior captain was aboard either of the two destroyers unless they were transporting such an officer or he was aboard to observe some special operation or maneuver for intelligence or political reasons.

If there was an article each time U.S. warships were spotted in international waters around other nations, including those not U.S. neighbors but rather on the other side of the planet, I am afraid there would be no room to print anything else. No more room to print anything about America's clear violations of sovereignty with drones either, nor any room to print information about U.S. spy flights off the coast of nations such as China either, nor drills conducted in both North Korea's face with South Korea, or in China's face with Vietnam.

But Chicken Little sure does get upset when the Chinese dare to travel in international waters. (face palm)

"Japan"

"Russia"

"China"

In the 23rd century, all of this, along with the USA, Europe, Africa and the rest of the world will be known as the "Federation."

Next article - BREAKING NEWS! Chinese aircrafts spotted over Japanese airspace!

Footnote: Aircrafts later landed at Narita carrying Chinese tourists.

I'm sure that no one knows why it's so important news which makes me believe that not many knows what it means and they're much anti-Japanese users.

Why does this" through an international strait" class as news, unless you want to panic the people, or is it trying to make Prime minister Abe's intention to change the constitution look credible.

It's only a report and what's news when a foriegn fleet goes past some 30 km from your territory? I bet US wouldn't make much fuss if Chinese fleet had went past Pacific and got a parade some 30 km from San Diego... Indeed, that's not alarming if you're Chinese top naval officer but it concerns their Japanese and American counterparts and should every Japanese.

The Japanese, South Korea and the US are holding drills all the time.

I haven't heard they had organised any naval drill off the Chinese coast...

For what reason, to antagonise their neighbours, NO ,surely not, not the reason usually given or admitted to.

Who's antagonising? Japan for putting up this report and letting people know what happened? This joint Chinese&Russian parade was made on purpose and the idea came probably from Chinese. Why it's important you ask me? Maybe someday you heard a term 'first island chain' regarding Chinese naval affairs. This island chain makes Chinese fleet caged behind it as they can't make any move on the Pacific without crossing it and all of the islands belong to nations which aren't too friendly towards them (Japan, Taiwan and Phillipines) so they can't go past it unnoticed. Their aim for now making the waters from the coast up to the first chain their playground and drive the US out of there. Hence they need some points of it for future developement (such as Senkakus or disputed isles with Philipines). And look who's agressive... Or military expanding...

So what we have here is that is ok for us(JP,S.K,US) to play here but not you (Ch,Rus), has a hypercritical tone to it.

Those aren't Chinese territorial waters so every time they're there you should be on your toes because you'll never know what's the agenda behind those moves! China playing on foreign territorial waters while Japan, South Korea and US would be!

I think the time has come for Japan and South Korea to decide which side they are on, to stand up and decide, whether they want to be an active partner in this growing region of Asia or they want to continue to be ruled , sorry slip of the tongue, should I say coerced, maybe guided a better word by the US's foreign policies.

Between China and US I would always say that I'd like to be 'coerced' by AMericans rather than Chinese! At least US policies are somewhat clear while Chinese aren't. You sound like the worst Chinese propaganda unit which I could dream of and the thing that you're getting so many upvotes makes me think if there's something behind it...

Only thing now is the rich are getting much richer and the poor much poorer.

You forgot to write 'unlike to China!' there...

Anyway, there's no coincidence the fear-mongers are pushing this during talks of changing the constitution and just before an election that favours the man who wants to do so. China did absolutely nothing wrong here, so there's no reason for the media here to poop their pants.

Then Chinese naval admirals are Abe's bitches. That's your reasoning.

"See how dangerous China is! They may attack at any minute!"

They can and you don't have to be much of an expert to know that they can do that every minute.

smithinjapan,

China did absolutely nothing wrong here, so there's no reason for the media here to poop their pants.

Agreed, but I don't think the media pooped their pants, it's more like they'd like us to.

Weasel: "Surprised the Russians didn't get peeved at this latest maritime infraction between neighbors."

Why would they be peeved since the two nations were conducting joint exercises?

Weasel, I think you need to keep up with the news, or learn how to read.

SuperLib:

I thought all water was Chinese.

Certainly not!!! For example, the Southern Ocean doesn't belong to China. That belongs to Japan (which means it belongs to USA).

I thought all water was Chinese.

Weasel: "Surprised the Russians didn't get peeved at this latest maritime infraction between neighbors."

Why would they be peeved since the two nations were conducting joint exercises?

Anyway, there's no coincidence the fear-mongers are pushing this during talks of changing the constitution and just before an election that favours the man who wants to do so. China did absolutely nothing wrong here, so there's no reason for the media here to poop their pants.

when it's 7th Fleet sail all over the Asia Pacific like it owns the world?

Except territorial waters of India, Vietnam, China, Russia and some other countries of Asia Pacific.

Does the US Navy get this much attention when it's 7th Fleet sail all over the Asia Pacific like it owns the world?

Moondog,

Well, it seems to me that this article is either poorly researched or translated - or the unnamed ministry official is a moron.

Probably all of the above :)

As some of the posters have said already....big deal!

We've known for ages that China and Russia were going to conduct joint drills, you know, something that the US and other countries like Japan do now and again. Since when is international waters off limits. This is just something else to get the public angry about. How many times have American aircraft flown close to China (eg Hainan) or even crashed onto Chinese territory? I don't recall any Chinese or Russian bases right next to USA or western Europe. And yet, USA has bases all over the world. I mean, what the heck is it even doing in Asia? Hypocrisy again. When the bogeyman is spying, it's an invasion. When USA is doing exactly the same, it's called defence.

Im no fan of the Russian and Chinese regimes,

Neither am I, but I hate hypocrisy even more.

JAPAN rock's. the USA will deter all combatant's, we love war!!!!! and we will not tolerate insult's...all beware, USA is FirePower!!!!!!!... and the smell of Death is not far behind....USA!!!!!

They can go where they like in International waters , as Japan Whales in Australia's Antarctic Territorial Zones.

Yawns! They were going through international waters. It is not a concern nor incident. We are at peace with China not war.

How long before China buy themselves a naval base in the Pacific to match their 'string of pearls' aimed at containing India?

Much talk about nothing!

Hmm. Let's see ...

We know that:

"The two missile destroyers, two frigates and a supply ship passed through the Soya Strait from the Sea of Japan to the Sea of Okhotsk"

--AND--

"The five ships took part in joint naval exercises with Russia from July 5-12 off Vladivostok."

BUT:

"A ministry official" doesn't know the "purpose of the Chinese fleet's passage through the Soya Strait ..."

Well, it seems to me that this article is either poorly researched or translated ... or the unnamed ministry official is a moron.

Kamikase, the typhoon will no longer protect Japan against them since they know are equipped with super computers.

to tyvtgo1US,

"Philippines is with you on that"

how?

Fear-mongering and political propaganda in Japan? Surely not?

To tyvtgo1US you posted:

Jul. 15, 2013 - 09:35AM JST

"Change your constitution Japan! Time to take your strong, elite,hi tech defense force to the next stage in china's game of intimidation and aggression. Philippines is with you on that and I am certain just about everyone in the region would love to sign up for a regional pact to counter China,s forces. Asia needs this really bad at this time. China knows nothing but to have others form a force against them to manage their greed for dominance that has been China's main goal for centuries, including this very day."

The Philippines was owned by Spain, the US, Japan and then the US again. The Japanese occupied The Philippines. The Japanese massacred a tens of thousands of Filipinos. They enslave the Filipinos, raped the women and performed horrible war crimes against all of Asia. You want to team up with the Japanese against China?

<> http://www.topix.com/forum/world/philippines/TPRK3SHSBPMKJPML4 <>

"Chinese army chief of general staff General Fang Fenghui earlier said the joint drills were “not targeting any third party”, according to the official Chinese Xinhua news agency."

Sure they're not.

Shock - Chinese ships seen sailing in international waters!

Nothing really to see here, although the Japanese media/government will try to have you think otherwise.

Im no fan of the Russian and Chinese regimes, however the fact is they were in international waters conducting their drills. I expect the nationalist, redneck dopes here will be fuming over their natto and fish-heads at this "outrage", though!

Navies hold drills together. It's what they do. Unless this the first time China and Russia have done so or there is something exceptional about this event, it isn't news.

Change your constitution Japan! Time to take your strong, elite,hi tech defense force to the next stage in china's game of intimidation and aggression. Philippines is with you on that and I am certain just about everyone in the region would love to sign up for a regional pact to counter China,s forces. Asia needs this really bad at this time. China knows nothing but to have others form a force against them to manage their greed for dominance that has been China's main goal for centuries, including this very day.

minello7,

Excellent post!

You bring up some very important points.

The only reason to make this news is to push some kind of agenda.

"See how dangerous China is! They may attack at any minute!"

(Therefore we need to change the constitution and build up our armed forces to "defend" the glorious motherland.)

And over in China and NK, they are getting EXACTLY the same crap on their media.

"Japan and US hold war games to retake island! The old imperial Japan is rising again!"

Someone is trying to create trouble where none exists.

Easy target as if something would happen. You know these ships could be taken out in an instance if trouble would break out and it was needed to be done. Lol they are not missile proof.

Next there'll be a territorial claim with a freshly printed ancient map as evidence.

Yes, and Sakhalin will be an integral part of China.

I wonder if even they can be that clueless.

" The purpose of the Chinese fleet’s passage through the Soya Strait is not known, Kyodo news agency quoted a ministry official as saying."

Next there'll be a territorial claim with a freshly printed ancient map as evidence.

Why does this" through an international strait" class as news, unless you want to panic the people, or is it trying to make Prime minister Abe's intention to change the constitution look credible. The Japanese, South Korea and the US are holding drills all the time. For what reason, to antagonise their neighbours, NO ,surely not, not the reason usually given or admitted to. So what we have here is that is ok for us(JP,S.K,US) to play here but not you (Ch,Rus), has a hypercritical tone to it. I think the time has come for Japan and South Korea to decide which side they are on, to stand up and decide, whether they want to be an active partner in this growing region of Asia or they want to continue to be ruled , sorry slip of the tongue, should I say coerced, maybe guided a better word by the US's foreign policies. And the last time I consulted the map, Japan and South Korea are Asian countries. I only wish the US as well other governments worldwide would concentrate their energies on their domestic problems, because at this moment in time the world is a worse place than 50 years ago. Only thing now is the rich are getting much richer and the poor much poorer.

China may be becoming more important for America than Japan economically.

Waaaa, you don't say!

We are coming to know that U.S. Forces in Japan is not very much deterrence. After all, U.S. moves for their profits. China may be becoming more important for America than Japan economically.

I know that China desperately seeks a route to get into Pacific without getting too much observations... but it's not possible to break past island chains...