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China releases Japanese wartime documents

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Why they had not been released until now was not immediately clear.

Hehe... 'Unearthed' (digged up? not burnt?) in 1950's documents from 1937. Not that Jilin province is in Manchuria so what the hell would documents about Nanjing do there is another mystery. China...

2 ( +12 / -9 )

"Why they had not been released until now was not immediately clear."

We can speculate. Over the years, there have been individual Chinese who have made claims in Japanese courts for various sufferings during Japan's occupation. I don't recall the Chinese government lending much support to these individual claims. Could it be that if the details were unearthed, we would find that many prominent Chinese of the time collaborated with the occupying forces, and that perhaps some of them eventually gained positions of some significance in Chinese society. That could be embarrassing. But I'd guess that any such people are now dead, so it's safe to open things up.

A cynical view, I know. I'm waiting for a better explanation?

9 ( +15 / -6 )

The Nanjing Massacre was a horrible and incredibly inhumane event in modern history. Some people in Japan say it's only China and Korea that hates Japan, while other countries like Taiwan, the Philippines, Singapore, and Indonesia have "moved on". But these two countries, especially China, suffered FAR greater than the Southeast Asian countries. I shiver when reading the horrific stories about what happened. How can one human being do that to another human being?

Actually, Japan did a lot of positive things in Taiwan as it was groomed as a model colony. And while the Sook Ching Massacre and Batan Death March were awful events, countries like Singapore and the Philippines only suffered briefly during WWII. Not for years and years like China and Korea.

4 ( +15 / -11 )

Calling sex slaves "comfort women" is like calling slaves of the 19th century American South "Cotton workers". It lends the whole scheme a legitimacy it does not deserve.

Nationalist politicians in Japan have been urging Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to water down a 1993 apology to comfort women.

The interesting thing is that all their actions have in fact watered down any sort of perceived contrition for war time wrongs.

I can hear them claiming these released documents are fabricated already, before they have had a single chance to look at them.

6 ( +15 / -10 )

albaleo, in times of war, there will ALWAYS be opportunists who work with the occupiers. That does not come close to discrediting war atrocities.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Mmm. I hate to be cynical, but you can't help wonder why these documents have never been released before, given how much of an issue this is for China.

Once their authenticity is validated independently, we can get to the contents.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Let's count how many of the Communist Chinese 50-cent army show up for this one.....

The 89 documents released from archives in northern Jilin province include letters written by Japanese soldiers, newspaper articles, and military files unearthed in the early 1950s, state media said.

Ah yeah, the unearthed documents that help to prove to the world that China is the victim. Hm, if they had it for such a long time and knew they existed why wait so long to use them?

Why they had not been released until now was not immediately clear.

Because it took a longtime to get the right paper and to make the ink exactly as it was made in the 1940's. Next they will provide the world

I wonder if Pei-Shen Qian had a hand in these letter/documents?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/18/chinese-businessman-makes-up-a-fake-u-s-bank-and-buys-it/

http://www.china.org.cn/international/news/2008-11/13/content_16759537.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2365937/Museum-forced-close-China-claims-40-000-antique-artefacts-fake.html

And then there is the ever so loved Communist Icon Lei Feng.....

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/evanosnos/2013/03/fact-checking-a-chinese-hero.html

Forgeries are so common in Communist China that no one is actually sure what is real these days.

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

Sir_EdgarApr. 28, 2014 - 07:25AM JST Some people in Japan say it's only China and Korea that hates Japan, while other countries like Taiwan, the >Philippines, Singapore, and Indonesia have "moved on". But these two countries, especially China, suffered FAR >greater than the Southeast Asian countries.

"These two countries"? your suggestion that the WWII suffering of China and the Koreas are comparable is offensive to China and the other Asian nations that were invaded by Imperial Japan. China was invaded by and at war with Japan. Korea was part of the Japanese Empire since 1910 and Koreans were serving in the Imperial Japanese Army. Do you know who this is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Park_Japan.JPG This is Park Chung Hee, the father of the current South Korean President Park Geun Hye.

-2 ( +15 / -17 )

Based on victims’ testimonies and available written documents that show detailed accounts on Japan’s wartime sex slavery, Japanese revisionists and war-guilt deniers are losing the ground, there is no question about the facts. Japan's wartime human rights violations on these women were established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But, looking on the bright side, today, Abe told that reporters in Iwaizumi, Iwate Prefecture “It really tears my heart apart to think of the indescribable suffering experienced by comfort women.” (It could be a coincidence or a spin spurred by Obama’s comments made in S.K on this particular subject.)

Let's hope that this time around, Abe is for real.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

To claim that somehow Korea was an accomplice in WWII is so ridiculous. Do you actually believe that? Of course, there were traitors. But after 35 years of colonization and subjugation, there will be people like that. France was only occupied a few years by Nazi Germany and there was Vichy France and collaborators with the Nazis. Even Manchukuo had people cooperate with the Japanese occupiers.

Stop making this nonsense propaganda.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

"....countries like Singapore and the Philippines only suffered briefly during WWII. "

Where did you learn your history? Manila was flattened during the war, with 100s of thousands of civilians killed. The Manila massacre was one of Japan's leading war crimes, according to the war tribunal. Only Warsaw suffered more damage during the war.

It's so depressing to go to Manila now, as basically no vestiges of the city's past remain.

The majority of Japanese people today either don't know or don't care.

1 ( +7 / -7 )

Because it took a longtime to get the right paper and to make the ink exactly as it was made in the 1940's. Next they will provide the world

Right on schedule. JoeBigs, were you singing this same tune in 2007 when the U.S. government declassified 100,000 documents on Imperial Japan and Nazi war crimes?

All governments have their secrets, not that I condone this. It is also possible that the documents were over-looked all this time or basically "lost". It would not be the first time either happened.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

There should be other documents out there left! China is keeping it because it's self incriminating. They can only censor the things they want to prevent them in pointing the gun towards themselves.

You cannot also overlook the possibility of fabrication. The duration of time it took for it to be released is questionable.

We know there are crimes, but the exaggeration in the magnitude of operation is extremely doubtful, like the current population at that time in Nanjin compared to the numbers of victim (given by the Chinese government) .

The CCP is no credible source of history. Countless of numerous occurrences of fact distortions and censorships. Just like the Falun Gong persecuted and Mao's mass genocide.

All of these for the propaganda against Japan. Thankfully the international community isn't taking China seriously. Communist China is always seen and forever be considered as a hoax machine.

3 ( +12 / -8 )

There was a very good BBC discussion podcast released this week on peace-building. The ultimate conclusion? To reconcile differences between two parties you must sit down together and really 'listen'. Listen to the other parties views, feelings and pain without judgement. You don't have to agree, just listen in a genuine way.

I think China, Korea and especially Japan given that they were the instigators of great suffering, would do well to do the same.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/forum

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Sir_EdgarApr. 28, 2014 - 08:25AM JST To claim that somehow Korea was an accomplice in WWII is so ridiculous. Do you actually believe that? Of course, >there were traitors. But after 35 years of colonization and subjugation, there will be people like that.

No it's not ridiculous. A number of Koreans were prosecuted and convicted as class B and C war criminals at the Tokyo Trials for their brutality towards allied POWs. Since 1910 there were numerous Koreans who had attained high ranks within the IJA including Generals. Korea was a poor and backwards country that had been under the thumb of China (Qing) and when Japan annexed it they improved the life expectancy, education level, infrastructure, etc. This was because Japan was economically much better off. Naturally a great number of Koreans willingly migrated to Japan for a better life, the forefathers of today's "zai nichi Koreans". Likewise many Koreans joined the Japanese military for the pay and better life. Do you think that photo of Park Chung Hee was photo shopped or something? South Korea whitewashed it's history immediately after WWII and buried it's role by pretending to be noting but a victim of Imperial Japan. Young South Koreans have been brainwashed into this false image of Korea's history.

1 ( +15 / -14 )

persecution

JeffLeeAPR. 28, 2014 - 08:42AM JST "....countries like Singapore and the Philippines only suffered briefly during WWII. " Where did you learn your history? Manila was flattened during the war, with 100s of thousands of civilians killed. The Manila massacre was one of Japan's leading war crimes, according to the war tribunal. Only Warsaw suffered more damage during the war. It's so depressing to go to Manila now, as basically no vestiges of the city's past remain.

Care to visit one museum? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_Metro_Manila

The Filipinos are aware but has forgiven and moved on. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/27/360303/china-blasts-japans-wartime-sex-slavery/

0 ( +10 / -10 )

OjissanAmerica

No it's not ridiculous. A number of Koreans were prosecuted and convicted as class B and C war criminals at the Tokyo Trials for their brutality towards allied POWs. Since 1910 there were numerous Koreans who had attained high ranks within the IJA including Generals. Korea was a poor and backwards country that had been under the thumb of China (Qing) and when Japan annexed it they improved the life expectancy, education level, infrastructure, etc. This was because Japan was economically much better off. Naturally a great number of Koreans willingly migrated to Japan for a better life, the forefathers of today's "zai nichi Koreans". Likewise many Koreans joined the Japanese military for the pay and better life. Do you think that photo of Park Chung Hee was photo shopped or something? South Korea whitewashed it's history immediately after WWII and buried it's role by pretending to be noting but a victim of Imperial Japan. Young South Koreans have been brainwashed into this false image of Korea's history.

You are painting it in a very positive light for Japan and doing exactly what you are accusing Korea of doing by revising history. Would you say the same of British colonization? Many right-wing folks took in similar terms of British occupation of North America, Australia and India - "we did so much to 'help them become civilized!' they cry. But you and they are ignoring the great oppression and suffering brought by such occupations.

It was no different with Japan's colonization of Korea, except that it happened 100 to 300 years after the British. As well as being forced fed Japanese infrastructure and government, Koreans were forced to adopt Japanese language, Japanese names and customs and were often shipped to Japan as cheap (or free) labor, not as you spin it 'immigrated' to Japan for better opportunities.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Wrong link from the previous.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/04/09/1310639/japan-ambassador-apologizes-wwii-atrocities

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It was no different with Japan's colonization of Korea, except that it happened 100 to 300 years after the British. As well as being forced fed Japanese infrastructure and government, Koreans were forced to adopt Japanese language, Japanese names and customs and were often shipped to Japan as cheap (or free) labor, not as you spin it 'immigrated' to Japan for better opportunities.

How does that explain the Japanese government policy of 1919 then on for two decades to limit the number of Korean immigrants to Japan and the illegal immigration during that time? How does one force feed schools, roads, irrigation, rail, electricity, dams to another state which had none of those to speak of at the beginning?

Collection of newspaper articles of illegal Korean immigrants.

http://www.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~mizna/cgi-bin/shinbun/shinbuns.cgi?midashi=%CC%A9%B9%D2&shinbun=&local1=&local2=&bunrui=&_ymd=no&year1=&month1=&beforeyear=&beforemonth=&afteryear=&aftermonth=&karayear=&karamonth=&madeyear=&mademonth=&perpage=100&page=1

2 ( +12 / -9 )

Even if these documents are legitimate (they definitely could be), we all know why they were released now. I'll give you a hint the word ends with -Kaku.

Just China doing its thing to paint Japan as an aggressive revisionist bent on conquest based on evidence from 70 years ago.

Hopefully the evidence will add to scholarship's understanding of events, and not be used a political bargaining chip in Beijing's aggressive assertions (including egging on its citizens to sue Japan for war compensation in clear violation of the Japan-China normalization communique) to Japanese territory...yeah...I know, fat chance of that happening.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

How does that explain the Japanese government policy of 1919 then on for two decades to limit the number of Korean immigrants to Japan and the illegal immigration during that time? How does one force feed schools, roads, irrigation, rail, electricity, dams to another state which had none of those to speak of at the beginning?

So you're going to just conveniently ignore the oppression, subjugation and suffering then? Do you have the same opinion of British colonization? The British have faced up to their dark colonialist past, when will Japan?

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Lots of countries keep records & only release for certain reasons, time based, opportunity based etc etc.

I bet the US has some real interesting stuff on Japan that its been sitting on that could really shed light on this stuff, maybe even Japan does too, but they wont show us.

Japan would be best served by dealing honestly wrt WWII otherwise its just going to keep looking bad to the rest of the world & that is SO NOT in Japans interest, but since when has that ever even been a thought for J-politicians, so far never sadly

1 ( +4 / -3 )

So you're going to just conveniently ignore the oppression, subjugation and suffering then?

That's been overplayed by the Koreans to the max so perhaps it's time to balance the discussion by stop ignoring the Korean's role in WWII for starters.

Do you have the same opinion of British colonization?

Pretty much.

The British have faced up to their dark colonialist past, when will Japan?

Excuse me? Since when did the British give an official apology and gave sums that equal 1.6 times the national budget of her former colonial states?

4 ( +15 / -11 )

China = cheap crude unregulated rubbish.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

It's not surprising that the usual suspects are screaming forgery before they've even seen the documents. Everyone should be skeptical of these documents until they are independently verified and until they are, we should reserve judgement. If they are not to be independently verified then China can have no complaints if they are safely ignored.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Sir_Edgar: "To claim that somehow Korea was an accomplice in WWII is so ridiculous. Do you actually believe that?"

But that's what Ossan loves to do -- blame everything on South Korea, including the slaughter and forced sexual slavery of South Koreans. I mean, take this article for example -- an article on documents released on CHINA -- he takes the time to blame things on South Korea. It is interesting to watch people like him and titaniumdioxide, and nigelboy, rush to claim it's all fabrication despite never seeing the documents themselves and never having been there, but it's no surprise really. And if/when they are validated said posters will STILL claim they are fabricated.

-4 ( +9 / -14 )

No doubt this happened but now? What a load of crap China, just came out now how convenient with Obama in town talking about the same topic.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

it's interesting that most Japanese people in my opinion don't know much about the war in the Pacific and about the relevant time in Korea and China, don't know and don't want to know. i think this is an Asian thing, not at all like Western ways of thinking and approaching historical facts. i have only ever lived in Japan (apart from a brief stint in HK) so i'm not totally sure about this, but i do know i, as an Englishman without much interest in Japan, know an awful lot more about these things than my wife for example (who is Japanese). i do find the political bickering between China, Japan and South Korea irritating (i was quite shocked when coming back from Seoul once to have read a Korean English language newspaper and the have read so much anti Japanese hate propaganda in several articles in just the one newspaper) and i wish they would all grow up.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

For the sake of balance, when will they release the 100 years of records about the barbarities of European Imperialist occupation? Or are you like the Chinese, and believe in "white history"? That is the European Imperialists and the occupied Chinese were haveing a big party, and the evil Japanese ruined it.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Japan annexed Korea, not colonized Korea.

South Korea is now talking about abolishing the practice of high school trip because they say Japan started the practice when Japan annexed Korea. There're many practices, institutions, infrastructures, buildings, roads Japan established in Korea at that time.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Between 1939 and 1945, a total of 667,680 Koreans were shipped to Japan to be slave laborers in mines, military factories etc. There is or was a mass grave of Korean slave laborers at Sapporo's Honganji temple. I don't know if all the remains have been repatriated yet. But I am sure it is not the only Korean mass grave in Japan.

And before 1939, there are mass graves of Japanese mine workers before the enactment of draft where the men were enlisted to fight in the battle zones creating a shortage. Mining, even today, is a dangerous job.

A simple fact that Koreans and the Japanese illiterates don't know. The mandatory draft for military and conscription work for Koreans in the peninsula was enacted in the latter part of 1944. Prior to that, it was volunteer recruitment by companies and local government acting as an intermediate.

0 ( +9 / -8 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 10:05AM JST OssanAmerica, saying Korea cooperated because some Koreans cooperated is like saying the Jews cooperated in >the Holocaust because some Jews were kapos to the point of putting zyklon-B into the gas chambers.

Really? Please tell me the number of Jews who were tried and convicted at the Nuremberg Trials.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Just a continuation of China's post-war "Take their money, slap their face" education of Japan.

A little different from Japan's own post-war internal education.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Let us see them anyhow. Isn't that ones made in China?? Even if it was the real, what China want to ask Japan for? Need apoogize or meney or putting Japan into the bad fame? Anyhow, the long time has passed, eh? "Wolf is coming!", "Wolf is coming!" But, nobody beleves it!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

A number of Koreans were prosecuted and convicted as class B and C war criminals at the Tokyo Trials for their brutality towards allied POWs.

While there were 148 Koreans indicted for war crimes after WW2 there were also 178 Taiwanese, which never seems to raise an issue on this forum. There were 5,700 Japanese indicted. Compare the number of convicted Korean collaborators to the number of slave laborers (667,680) and you can see how minimal it actually was. In comparison, there were entire Divisions of Dutch (SS Nordland) as well as Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Estonians, Finns and Belgians (SS Viking) that volunteered to fight with the SS in WW2, yet I doubt anyone would suggest those countries were an accomplice of Germany. LIke Austrians were into the Wehrmacht, Koreans and Taiwanese were conscripted into the IJA. For people, particularly Japanese, to now start pointing fingers and accusing Koreans of complicity, is shameful, and frankly reeks of ethnocentricity.

-2 ( +4 / -8 )

and i bet people commenting in this forum never tasted war nor Japanese brutality.

Why all the hatred?

People are reliving the past when they never sa it nor experienced it.

War bring the worst in all people.

In war, people are killed, being killed, tortured, raped, pillaged, burned alive, fed to the dogs, and much worse. That is why we have to move on and remove the hate within us so that we can prevent another war but seems to me people just like to nurture the hate they have when they are not even victims of crime.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Why they had not been released until now was not immediately clear.

You have to presume it's because there is disagreement between China and Japan about events of 3 generations ago, and China wanted to do it's part to help clear things up.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

nigelboy

Excuse me? Since when did the British give an official apology and gave sums that equal 1.6 times the national budget of her former colonial states?

You're excused. Got Google? https://www.google.com/search?es_sm=93&q=british+apologies+to+colonies&spell=1&sa=X&ei=HrxdU5aIOIX18QXt-oDABA&ved=0CCQQBSgA&biw=1535&bih=796

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Masaki Satoh: "Let us see them anyhow. Isn't that ones made in China??"

As opposed to the history made in Japan by self-proclaimed and proud revisionists who were never there? Funny how some people will jump to claim that anything coming out of China or SK is a lie, and at the same time back up claims made by revisionists here when proof exists with the former and very little or none with the latter. It's especially amusing to see nationalists here panic and call former Imperial soldiers who come forward "senile" and "unable to remember clearly what happened", etc. Pathetic.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

In comparison, there were entire Divisions of Dutch (SS Nordland) as well as Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Estonians, Finns and Belgians (SS Viking) that volunteered to fight with the SS in WW2, yet I doubt anyone would suggest those countries were an accomplice of Germany. Like Austrians were into the Wehrmacht, Koreans and Taiwanese were conscripted into the IJA.

Those countries have spent a huge amount of time and resources on educating their respective citizenry on their involvement with Nazi Germany. Citizens of those countries were accomplices, and that is accepted and openly discussed.

On the other hand, while Taiwan acknowledges their WW2 past to a degree, China ignores the question of citizen involvement completely and Korea is so in denial of their role in WW2 that they issued official pardons to Korean war criminals.

6 ( +7 / -2 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 07:34AM JST

Calling sex slaves "comfort women" is like calling slaves of the 19th century American South "Cotton workers". It lends the whole scheme a legitimacy it does not deserve.

English speakers are susceptible to this kind of poisonous propaganda, because they tend to think everyone in the world speaks English.

No Japanese calls a "comfort woman" a comfort woman. Japanese call a "comfort woman" ianfu, which means a prostitute in Japanese. It was US intelligent officers that began the use of the word "comfort girls" during WW2, and the US documents during ww2 containing "comfort girls" can be found on line. However, use of the word "girl" for an adult woman was considered politically wrong, and later, in the English language, "comfort girls" were renamed to "comfort women". Then further later in the 2000s, they renamed "comfort women" to "sex slaves" to tap more sympathy from Americans. As soon as you use the word "slave", you can get support from people like Crimson and Clover.

Although the English name for "comfort women" changed a lot for whatever reason, the Japanese word remains ianfu, which means a prostitute.

What I want to point out here is that it is rather strange to blame Japan for alleged use of euphemism, which, in this case, only exists in the English language.

However, there are signs of warmth amid the chill as well.

Last week, Tokyo Gov Yoichi Masuzoe visited Beijing, meeting with China’s Vice Premier Wang Yang and former top Chinese diplomat Tang Jiaxuan and passing on a message from Abe that he hoped bilateral ties would improve.

I see. This is what the Chinese Communist Party wants Westerners to report.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Actually China, I would be more interested in reading some of your internal documents relating to the destruction during the cultural revolution, or perhaps Tienanmen square.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

I have searched and looked at those charred up and half way burned up documents. Apparently, someone tried to dispose these documents so that they may never see the light.

We can all speculate who those culprits were but its pointless at this point.

As to the contents of the documents, my kanji is not very good but from what I can make out, there is no question they documented the gruesome killing of children and something as to throwing a child into the fire.

I don't know about you people here, but from where I come from, throwing children into the fire and burning them alive is an atrocious crime against humanity. Even in the state of war.

Can anyone authenticate the validity of these documents? Sure they can. There are ink test and age test on when these documents were made. And many of these documents seemed like they were gov't documentation recorded in a systematic way with date, location, name of the recorder, and description of the events. I don't know if anyone has validated these documents but I'm sure they are easy to authenticate.

And don't forget, these are just the tip of the iceberg. For the atrocities that were not recorded and silent by the perpetrators, by common logic, they are exponentially greater that what is perceived.

Japanese did some horrible things to the Chinese, Koreans and others they invaded and victimized. Same as the Nazi did to the Jews, French, Polish and Russians. And I'm sure throughout history, various nations has committed horrific crimes against others as well.

People try to reconcile this by doing the right things. Not by re-visiting the wounds you committed towards others and constantly flip-flopping your stance on history and your sincerity on apologies.

In another way, some of the Japanese nowadays, particularly the ones in power, possess a dark and crooked heart. Your skewered pov on history and responsibility towards the victims were unrepenting and disingenuous.

Some of you think, oh this doesn't concern me or anybody. Japan is a peaceful country. Well, neo-nazism, neo-nationalism is only a doorstep away. Just look at what happened in Kiev with the Svoboda party. Cripping facists and neo-nazi masking as neo-nationalist causing mayhem when the country is vulnerable.

If Japan's economy fail, meaning abenomic fails in the near future, which it is most certainly heading that direction, I wonder how civil and orderly Japanese citizens and these ultra-right wing group will behave when the time comes.

Or have you not forgotten those riots about toilet paper and gasoline not so long ago... neo-nationalism is that cancer lurking around, silently growing in Japan. All they need are triggers. They found that in Yasukuni and Sex slave issues. Let's see what else they find in future and turn Japan down the path of no return.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Markus LApr. 28, 2014 - 10:51AM JST While there were 148 Koreans indicted for war crimes after WW2 there were also 178 Taiwanese, which never seems >to raise an issue on this forum. There were 5,700 Japanese indicted. Compare the number of convicted Korean >collaborators to the number of slave laborers (667,680) and you can see how minimal it actually was.

So you are excusing Koreans on the basis of numbers? Yet Koreans and Chinese can't excuse Yasukuni for 14 class-A war criminals out of 2,466,000?

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Although the English name for "comfort women" changed a lot for whatever reason, the Japanese word remains ianfu, which means a prostitute.

What I want to point out here is that it is rather strange to blame Japan for alleged use of euphemism, which, in this case, only exists in the English language

The word ianfu is made up of ian 慰安, meaning 'consolation, comfort, recreation' and fu 婦 meaning 'a woman; female'. So the Japanese word ianfu is from the start a euphemism, and the English 'comfort woman' is merely a direct, literal translation.

I would not argue your point that the English language is awash in euphemism - it is, of course - but in this particular instance, it is not the case that the euphemism 'only exists in the English language'.

My J-E dictionary defines ianfu as 'a prostitute for soldiers'. It is not the usual word for a prostitute; that would be baishunfu 売春婦 or shofu 娼婦 (If I remember rightly this is the word used in the Bible to translate the whore of Babylon)

But as they say, a rose by any other name. It isn't what these women were/are called that's the problem, it's the treatment that was handed out to them.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

CH3CHO: "Although the English name for "comfort women" changed a lot for whatever reason, the Japanese word remains ianfu, which means a prostitute."

And yet amidst all this claiming of euphemism you fail to direct the fact that these women were forced into sexual slavery, and that you think, as many wingers do, they were volunteers to be raped countless times a day. And you wonder why people take offense.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

. It isn't what these women were/are called that's the problem, it's the treatment that was handed out to them.

Both are a problem Cleo. The term "comfort woman" totally obscures the truth of their treatment in two ways. First, it removes the word slave, thereby making it look like they were not slaves. It makes it sound like its just another job. Second, they use the word "comfort" which conveys comfort to the reader just in the reading of it.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

smithinjapanApr. 28, 2014 - 12:44PM JST

the fact that these women were forced into sexual slavery,

You know better than that and that the "fact" is disputed. Do I need to pasted the link to the US Congressional hearing on "comfort women" one more time?

No one disputes prostitution is sexual exploitation and that Japanese Army was responsible for the sexual exploitation of ianfu. No one disputes the Japanese army raped a lot of enemy citizens including Chinese, Indonesians and Filipinas. However, if the Japanese army abducted its own citizen of the Empire, be it Korean or Japanese, for sexual exploitation is disputed. Old diaries, US army reports, old newspaper ads all point that they were not abducted and that they were not "sex slaves". I pretty much believe further study is needed here.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Igloobuyer,

You're kidding me right? You googled "British apologies to colonies" which is a good start but did you actually read the results? You basically shot yourself in the foot.

Face it. The apology and compensation given to Korea are unprecedented and will never be surpassed. That's what your Google search proved.

-6 ( +7 / -12 )

SpankiAPR. 28, 2014 - 11:54AM JST Actually China, I would be more interested in reading some of your internal documents relating to the destruction during the cultural revolution, or perhaps Tienanmen square.

B.I.N.G.O cay I give you an igloow, lalalala?! No hopes Spanki. China censors the "real stuff" and will never give out anything that is self-incriminating to the Communist government! Cases like Tibet, Tienmen square, Falun Gong, Mao's mass genocide and of course the real data on the number of victims in Nanking (if there's even one). China will never give out real history! Ever! Unless the communist party is dead! Hahahahhaha

0 ( +6 / -6 )

You know better than that and that the "fact" is disputed.

Yeah, like the Flat Earth Society disputes the shape of the Earth! Fact is that the sex slaves are not disputed by anyone with a legit argument.

Yet Koreans and Chinese can't excuse Yasukuni for 14 class-A war criminals out of 2,466,000?

There are over a 1000 tried and convicted war criminals and the class B and C criminals were the ones who actually committed the heinous crimes. The class A's ordered and presided over them. And there are many more criminals who were not tried simply because they died during the war.

Besides, even after the war the monks of Yasukuni refused to induct the known criminals. It took 30 years for that to happen and done secretly by a new head monk. After that even the emperor refused to visit, so don't act like its only the Koreans and Chinese complaining. The Japanese emperor himself has a problem!

English speakers are susceptible to this kind of poisonous propaganda, because they tend to think everyone in the world speaks English.

Yet you apparently don't speak any Japanese, or you would have known what ianfu meant. Yes, I do speak Japanese and I have studied some French, German and Spanish. When I opt for new terms, its simply to reflect the truth.

. It was US intelligent officers that began the use of the word "comfort girls" during WW2

That is how the term entered into English, yes. But it was a poor choice to just translate Japanese into English, and if they had not been so busy with the war and cleaning up after the war, I am sure they would have thought better of it. Strange thing about war though, people tend to turn to more immediate concerns and breeze by the semantical ones.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

CH3CHO wrote; " ... This is what the Chinese Communist Party wants Westerners to report ... " Seriously, China has a communist government? What version of modern history have you been studying?

China is an oligarchy, no one could call the political and social tactics used over the last fifty years communist. All that has changed in two hundred years is the tittles. Titles rearranged within a clever branding strategy used first by last centuries Third Reich, an earlier oligarchy. A branding strategy that has been copied by North Korea, USA, the former USSR / Russia, China and others to hide who is in control.

" ... large organizations (e.g., political parties, bureaucracies, government institutions, and civic groups) tend to become oligarchic as power concentrates at the top, where leaders have access to information and funds and can thereby direct the organization to their own ends ..." Encyclopedia of Political Science [page 1142]

But it is true China is using jingoism^ to project hatred of Japan about legitimate war crimes. Issues that should have been acknowledged but be left in the past. China's strategy not unlike any government today who use of jingoism to manipulate public opinion. A tactic that is allowing government to turn a blind eye to corporate crimes against their own people and earths ecosystem.

As for the feeble semantics argument [Japanese call a "comfort woman" ianfu] ; abuse of women during war is a crime whatever the label. The reality is the systemic abuse of women was military policy and denial of it just makes the culture look unevolved. Which is certainly playing into the Chinese government's jingoistic agenda.

http://www.cqpress.com/product/Encyclopedia-of-Political-Science.html ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism ...
9 ( +13 / -4 )

nigelboy

You're right, how silly of me. What was I thinking! Japan is the model of purity and peace. They saved those poor and stupid Koreans from their depraved situation. They are the greatest most purest Asian 'race' and the world is just ignorant. And Britain is none of these things, in fact it is the opposite.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 01:20PM JST

It seems you are rather new here. I recommend you read this US Army report before criticizing US offficers.

http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers.

LIVING AND WORKING CONDITIONS;

In Myitkyina the girls were usually quartered in a large two story house (usually a school building) with a separate room for each girl. There each girl lived, slept, and transacted business. In Myitkina their food was prepared by and purchased from the "house master" as they received no regular ration from the Japanese Army. They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

You're right, how silly of me

Igloobuyer. You dug your own grave by bringing in British who happens to have done squat to her former occupied territories. But then again, many of the nations have enough pride that they don't go blaming other countries for their own shortcomings.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Love that people are arguing about Japanese war crimes based off an OBVIOUS ATTEMPT by the Chinese Communist Party to put pressure on Japan to give up the Senkaku Islands. Its pretty unbelievable how effective Chicom propaganda has become.

Not saying we shouldn't talk about this stuff, but all these arguments about whether Japan has or hasn't made sufficient apologies are moot in this context. This is because, for China and to a lesser extent South Korea, Japan as an enemy is better for the domestic narrative right now and no amount of Japanese contrition (it has been substantial already) will change that.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

CH3CHO, thank you for the link explaining the situation of a mere 20 Korean girls in Burma under one single "house master".

I don't know if you have been told, but there were tens of thousands of sex slaves in countries all across Asia, most of those countries in worse condition than Burma. These 20 don't represent all women providing sexual services to Japanese troops. Once again I will discuss American slavery. Thomas Jefferson's slaves were so well treated you could have called them indentured servants. But that is not remotely representative of the lynchings and beatings that went on throughout southern plantations.

I would sooner call the tale of Jan Ruff-O'Hearne to be representative. But there are many former sex slaves with similar stories and they come from various nations and not just Burma, and were raped in various places and not kept under the same roof.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

"Ah yeah, the unearthed documents that help to prove to the world that China is the victim. "

Of course China was the victim! What next? You'll accuse Poland of digging up documents trying to prove they were the victim.

Guys you just have to accept that your country did wrong in the past.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

letsberealisticApr. 28, 2014 - 09:02AM JST You are painting it in a very positive light for Japan and doing exactly what you are accusing Korea of doing by revising history. Would you say the same of British colonization? Many right-wing folks took in similar terms of British occupation of North America, Australia and India - "we did so much to 'help them become civilized!' they cry. But you and they are ignoring the great oppression and suffering brought by such occupations. It was no different with Japan's colonization of Korea, except that it happened 100 to 300 years after the British. As well as being forced fed Japanese infrastructure and government, Koreans were forced to adopt Japanese language, Japanese names and customs and were often shipped to Japan as cheap (or free) labor, not as you spin it 'immigrated' to Japan for better opportunities.

I recommend reading "The New Korea" by Alleyne Ireland. You will see what OssanAmerica stated is true.

http://www.questia.com/library/7880270/the-new-korea

Imperial Japan treated Korea better than Taiwan because it was an annexation proposed by Korean side, not like Taiwan which China conceded as the result of Japanese-Sino War. Actually there were protests in Taiwan asking for the same rights as Korea, including voting right and the right to join the Imperial Army.

Taiwanese are teaching their children the facts; bad things as well as good things about Japanese colonization. In fact, there were uprisings at the beginning of Japanese rule such as Wuche Incident. Wei Te-Sheng, Taiwanese directer filmed "Seediq Bale" based on this incident (received "Audience Award" in Osaka film festival), and he also produced "Kano" based on the friendship between Taiwanese and Japanese high school baseball teams.

And, Taiwan is one of the pro-Japan nations now. I think this explains enough.

As far as I see what are exhibited at the Nanjing Museum as follows, I must say China is far from trustworthy, together with the fact that it is a country without freedom of speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A28-2K93KgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7tP3ncMntc

So you're going to just conveniently ignore the oppression, subjugation and suffering then? Do you have the same opinion of British colonization? The British have faced up to their dark colonialist past, when will Japan?

Then, why doesn't China demand U.K. apologies and compensation? British did so many cruel things to China including the Opium War. Your saying is full of contradictions.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

"Taiwan is one of the pro-Japan nations now."

Taiwan is the ONLY pro-Japan nation right now.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 01:53PM JST

These 20 don't represent all women providing sexual services to Japanese troops.

People tend to react that way when they read the inconvenient US Army report for the first time. Well, the report is about the only US interrogation report on ianfu. If you find any US Army report at that time that says ianfu were "sex slaves", let me know. Since you can read Japanese, I recommend you read the old documents during WW2 here. http://www.awf.or.jp/6/document.html They are excellent collection of historical materials.

I would sooner call the tale of Jan Ruff-O'Hearne to be representative.

Her case is known as the "Semarang Case". What was special about her case was that it was Japanese MPs that found the illegal operations of the Semarang brothel and rescued her. Her case was illegal even under Japanese ianfu policies. Her case is hardly representative. You can check the details of her case here at page 116. http://www.awf.or.jp/pdf/0062_p107_141.pdf

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Man, the parade of Japan-apologists even now trying so desperately to absolve Japan and shift blame onto Koreans! -- the word 'shameless' loses its meaning. Here's news for you; pointing out there were traitors and collaborators in Korea that worked with the Japanese for their own selfish gain, and that there were Koreans who 'volunteered' to serve in Japan's imperial machine because there was no other way for them to get ahead, will not and cannot erase the fact that at that time Koreans were living under Japan's brutal and exploitative colonial administration, and that the only way for a talented young person to get ahead was to try and rise within the established system. As established by Japan. For Japan's profit, not Korea's -- despite the absurd mask of altruistic goodwill Japan-apologists are forever trying to put on it.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

CH3CHO: "No one disputes prostitution is sexual exploitation..."

You see, that's where you bury your own argument -- by suggesting they were prostitutes when they were forcibly raped by Imperial troops. And yes, that's fact. You don't like it, you dance around it, you downplay it, but it's still fact, as has been reported by the men who did it and the victims alike. But hey, you were there, right?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

CHOCHO3

The book you referenced The New Korea" by Alleyne Ireland was written before the annexation of Korea in 1926 and seems a popular book in Japan, but no where else - interesting....

Here is a more modern, and balanced perspective;

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2010/08/29/editorials/the-annexation-of-korea/#.U13th_mSyE8

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You see, that's where you bury your own argument -- by suggesting they were prostitutes when they were forcibly raped by Imperial troops.

Many were prostitutes, as prostitution was (and remains, today) a very common thing in Asia. It was also not uncommon for families to sell their daughters into prostitution in order to pay off their debts.

But hey, you were there, right?

Were you?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@igloobuyer

The book you referenced The New Korea" by Alleyne Ireland was written before the annexation of Korea in 1926 and seems a popular book in Japan, but no where else - interesting....

The annexation of Korea by Japan is 1910 - 1945.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

bfg4987: "Many were prostitutes,"

And many were not. The problem is people like Ossan and CH3CHO using the number that WERE prostitutes (at the barrel of a gun) to undermine the fact that many, many women were forced into sexual slavery and raped continuously, forced to have abortions when they became pregnant (or face the bayonet), and murdered if they didn't go along with it or when the military got tired of them, be the children or old ladies or in between. Many Japanese have, in their old age, admitted to such acts as kidnapping and forcing women into brothels, but many people here refuse to acknowledge that and use the number of people forced at gun point to become prostitutes to suggest Japan was somehow the benevolent employer of women in Asia and that it is the victims' fault they were treated as they were.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

igloobuyerApr. 28, 2014 - 02:59PM JST

CHOCHO3 The book you referenced The New Korea" by Alleyne Ireland was written before the annexation of Korea in 1926 and seems a popular book in Japan, but no where else - interesting

It was not me but but virgo98 who refered the book. In addition, it was 1910 that the annexation of Korea took place.

Here is a more modern, and balanced perspective; http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2010/08/29/editorials/the-annexation-of-korea/#.U13th_mSyE8

You must be sarcastic. Here are some of the issued discussed in the article.

Perhaps the most thoughtless thing Japan did in Korea, which caused strong resentment among Koreans, was its attempt, after the outbreak of the Sino-Japanese War of 1937-1945, to assimilate Koreans as true subjects of the Japanese empire. Schoolchildren were forced to make a pledge of allegiance to the Japanese empire and the emperor every morning. The same Japanese textbooks used in Japan — compiled by Japan’s education ministry — came to be used also in Korea.

Equal education and pledging allegiance to the country are nothing wrong. If this was "the most thoughtless thing," I would say the administration was generally not bad.

Japan carried out a comprehensive land survey of Korea from 1910 to 1918 to establish property rights. Many farmers were forced to become tenant farmers because they could not produce documented proof that they owned their land.

Anywhere in the world, if you have no proof of your title, you cannot claim the title. If you know of any country where one can claim the title of a piece of land even without any piece of evidence, please let me know.

All the issues discussed in the article are ridiculous.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

OssanAmerica: So you are excusing Koreans on the basis of numbers? Yet Koreans and Chinese can't excuse Yasukuni for 14 class-A war criminals out of 2,466,000?

Not at all. These Korean and Taiwanese collaborators were tried as class B&C war criminals and 40 were rightfully executed for their crimes. However, the excuse that Korea has no right to raise issues like that of the "comfort women" as well as the looting of it's wealth and use of it's populace as slave labour under Japanese colonization is often used by Japan apologists, revisionists, and atrocity deniers, many like CH3CHO on this forum, and it's frankly offensive. As for the 14 class-A war criminals, China and Korea, as well as most countries, "can't excuse" the fact high ranking Japanese politicians, including the Prime Minister pay tribute to them. These men were the Japanese equivalent of Hitler, Von Ribbentrop, Borman, Goring etc. Do you remember when President Reagan and Chancellor Kohn laid wreaths a the German Cemetery at Bitberg, where there were no convicted war criminals, let alone Class A war criminals, only soldiers who served in the Waffen SS, which was deemed a criminal organization at the Nuremberg Tribunal. There was general outrage. That this sort of denial (or ignorance of history) is so widespread in Japan is truly troubling.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The problem is people like Ossan and CH3CHO using the number that WERE prostitutes (at the barrel of a gun) to undermine the fact that many, many women were forced into sexual slavery

I think the problem is you are under the impression that this was the norm. All evidence I see, such as the ever-increasing number of Korean volunteers into the Japanese army, the prevalence of prostitution, and how much easier it was to make a living as a prostitute than many other legitimate professions, leads me to believe kidnapping and rapes were not the rule, but the exception.

There's no doubt that Japan did many, many terrible things during the war. However, there is equally little doubt that the Korea and China of today are simply using the issue in their filthy, corrupt governments' propaganda in order to stir up nationalist sentiment. China has been pulling the wool over the eyes of the people for decades, as has Korea. I would never put it past them to exaggerate Japan's acts as much as they can, and I would NEVER, EVER, EVER put it past China to falsify these documents, or at the very, very least only produce those which contain no evidence of misdoings by Chinese officials.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 08:42AM JST Right on schedule. JoeBigs, were you singing this same tune in 2007 when the U.S. government declassified 100,000 documents on Imperial Japan and Nazi war crimes?

How interesting, you are actually attempting to compare the release of 89 unsubstantiated Communist Documents to the release of 100,000 pages of declassified Japanese war crimes documents?

So, do tell comrade how much dirt did you find in those 100,000 pages?

Now, by all means, can you provide proof that these 89 are for real?

Yes, ladies and gents how can anyone blindly accept 89 still wet inked documents provided by a nation that is notorious for fabricating documents faster than you can say Louis Vuitton knock off?

So please do tell us Comrade "Crimson and Clover" where exactly is your proof that these documents are for real?

I shall await your proof and while you are at it, also can you please show us how Comrade Lei Feng did all that was claimed to have done.

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 08:42AM JST All governments have their secrets, not that I condone this. It is also possible that the documents were over-looked all this time or basically "lost". It would not be the first time either happened.

Yes, dear Comrade, but when some countries release their secrets folks don't wonder who forged them and when. Big difference....

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST I have searched and looked at those charred up and half way burned up documents. Apparently, someone tried to dispose these documents so that they may never see the light.

You know the 50-cent Communist Chinese army must be desperate when they bring out the highball..So you got to see these 89 documents firsthand?

Let's play your game....

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST We can all speculate who those culprits were but its pointless at this point.

Why, the 89 documents were provided when the CPC needed them most and not before.

Why not before?

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST As to the contents of the documents, my kanji is not very good but from what I can make out, there is no question they documented the gruesome killing of children and something as to throwing a child into the fire.

So you can actually claim that all these documents are authentic?

Please by all means provide us laymen with you credentials......

Holding breath.......But, scared I may turn blue.

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST I don't know about you people here, but from where I come from, throwing children into the fire and burning them alive is an atrocious crime against humanity. Even in the state of war.

Yes, you are correct, but I too can claim that 100,000,000,000 babies were thrown into the fires yesterday, but until I can provide proof it's just smoke.

Again, can you provide proof that these documents are for real and not just forged Chinese knock-offs....

Still holding my breath...

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST Can anyone authenticate the validity of these documents? Sure they can.

Please, by all means name a few names that can verify that these claims of your actually real and not smoke and mirrors?????.....

Holding breath some more...

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST There are ink test and age test on when these documents were made.

Tell that to the folks that claimed that the forgeries made by Pei-Shen Qian (look up the name and be amazed by what Communist China has produced) were real.

Ink tests mean absolutely nothing when you know what you need to make the ink from way back when. Also, if you want to get the right paper all you need is a book produced around the right era and bingo you have a forgery.

I would go into details but why waste the fun I will have rebuking your further claims.....

Nice try Highball, but all you have done is made the same claims that Pei-Shen Qian made when he sold his forgeries.

highball7Apr. 28, 2014 - 11:55AM JST And many of these documents seemed like they were gov't documentation recorded in a systematic way with date, location, name of the recorder, and description of the events. I don't know if anyone has validated these documents but I'm sure they are easy to authenticate.

Give me a few hours and a look at these documents and I too and make them look just right.

Who are you? What credentials do you hold to make such claims?

Highball, all you have done is made your argument look simple at best and comical at worse. Taking your word that these 89 documents are proof is like buying Morgan Silver Dollar from China. Yes, I am a stamp and coin collector and whenever I buy old coins I make sure to a good magnet with me.

To take the word of another 50-cent army poster is as blind as accepting a 3 dollar bill.

Sad at best......

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

CHoCHO3

Goodness, we could go around in circles forever like this, interpreted facts and writings in different ways, which is all good and well, but where will it get us with seeking ways to improve relations between China, Japan and Korea? That's what I'm hoping for - I don't have any particular politically strong political bias. As an expat in Japan I just want to there to be more 'getting on' and less potential for war to break out.

What is your motivation? What are you hoping for? What would you like your country (Japan?) to do to improve relations?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

So please do tell us Comrade "Crimson and Clover" where exactly is your proof that these documents are for real?

No need. I never claimed they were real.

But your answer to why it took so long to release the docs was:

Because it took a longtime to get the right paper and to make the ink exactly as it was made in the 1940's.

You are the one who made a claim here. What is your proof they are fake?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@CH3CHO I agree with you. The Japan Times article which igloobuyer said "balanced perspective" is after all totally biased without any convincing evidence.

igloobuyer, What is your motivation? What are you hoping for? What would you like your country (China or Korea?) to do to improve relations?

Japanese people are fed up with their lies.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Lol China, nice timing. If these documents do actually turn out to be fake, China will be the shame of the world and should be mocked forever.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

virgo98APR. 28, 2014 - 05:35PM JST @CH3CHO I agree with you. The Japan Times article which igloobuyer said "balanced perspective" is after all totally biased without any convincing evidence. igloobuyer, What is your motivation? What are you hoping for? What would you like your country (China or Korea?) to do to improve relations? Japanese people are fed up with their lies.

Yes, that is how Japanese may feel, Chinese and Koreans have their own perspective. My point is we need resolution between the 3 nations and just pointing fingers and saying "it's there fault - they have to change" is unproductive and results in an endless feud.

If peace between these countries is ever to be realized they must listen to each others views, the pain, frustrations that they feel. Then make offers of reconciliation - what can Japan offer to Korea and China? What can China and Korea offer Japan? These questions must be discussed, not blaming and saying who is lying most.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

igloobuyerApr. 28, 2014 - 05:47PM JST

Yes, that is how Japanese may feel, Chinese and Koreans have their own perspective. My point is we need resolution between the 3 nations and just pointing fingers and saying "it's there fault - they have to change" is unproductive and results in an endless feud.

That resolution was concluded between Korea and Japan in 1965, and between China and Japan in 1972. All the reparation claims were cleared by those agreements. Yet, South Korea is ever busy trying to claim reparation for ianfu, and China clearly violated the 1972 agreement by siezing Mitsui OSK ship.

what can Japan offer to Korea and China?

It does not mean Korea and China can take second, third, forth and so on bite out of the same thing. As to ianfu reparation, this is Korea's 3rd bite out of the same thing.

If you want to give some advice, understand the issue first, for ill informed advice is likely to make things worse beyond repair.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Bags, watches, etc., "documents" what's next, airplanes?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 05:33PM JST No need. I never claimed they were real.

Your Texas two-step is better than most, but your left feet are getting in the way.

So we are in agreement, there is o way to actually confirm that these documents provided in the nick of time by the Communist Chinese can be trusted to be real, glad to see we agree.

Crimson and CloverApr. 28, 2014 - 05:33PM JST You are the one who made a claim here. What is your proof they are fake?

They were produced in Communist China and bingo came out 50 years after the fact. Funny how folks on the far left hail these documents as positive proof. 89 documents are a whole lot less than 100,000.

Or does the release of 89 documents mean more than the release of 100,000?

Imagine what they are hiding if they only released that few.....

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Markus LApr. 28, 2014 - 07:54PM JST

And all those pictures and film footage are all clever CCP forgeries.

I recently read a very good book that did comparative studies of large number of photos in various materials issued by Chinese Communist Party accusing Japanese atrocities. What the researcher found was that the same photo is used in different materials and explained differently. The time and place the photo was taken were different from one material to another. That was a good read. The book was published only in Japanese, and I really hope the English translation is published. ISBN978-4-7942-1381-5

The most depressing photo I found in the book was a photo of about 20 Korean very young boys and girls, slaughtered by Chinese militia and abandoned in the mud, in a most humiliating way. The photo was originally taken and published by a Korean journalist. However, the Chinese Communist Party advertised the photo as an evidence of Japanese atrocities against Chinese children, and published it in their books and exhibited it in the Nanjing museum. One can tell their lies by comparing with the original publishing by the Korean journalist.

The Koreans who visit Nanjing would never realize that the poor children in the photo are actually Koreans and that they are used even after their death for the interest of Chinese who killed and mutilated them in an unimaginable way. The day may never come for those poor Korean children to rest in peace.

-4 ( +6 / -9 )

OssanAmerica - A mere 14 A war criminals ? your mentality just says it all nothing to add.

Chocho just with one document statement from US report in Burma seem to debunk the whole comfort women issue ... However a bunch of documents and statement against japan is deemed untrue.. Wake up n live up to the facts, u choose not to believe n read and accept anything in japans favor, the only person your kidding with, is yourself.

dcog9065 - That's why the rest of the world is mocking japan at the moment.

Just unbelievable some of these comments..

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I'm not going to get into the debate about the authenticity of the supposed documents at hand. However, it's clearly suspect that the timing that the PRC chooses to release this is clearly with its spurious territorial claims.

The PRC is and always will be a spurious, dubious in legality based government and one that dials racial hatred on a phone IVR just to help drum up "aiguo" sentiment to divert it away from domestic issues.

Japan's wartime misdeeds are well known, but I really question what the PRC is trying to achieve, and I believe it WANTS a WAR, it is no peace loving country, with this targeted racial hatred to stir up popular domestic support. It almost feels to me that they KNOW that doing this isn't going to help dial down tensions, but GIVE credibility to the far right Japanese denialists and EMPOWER THEM EVEN FURTHER. It's hard to believe that they don't know that this would happen, but more like they don't care. They want their war because it makes for more "glorious press" with Xinhua and the Global Times. It stretches the "aiguo" factor because their only claim to legitimacy was to do with how anti-Japanese they were during the war compared to the KMT.

They just don't care. They clearly know that their actions give the illegitimate denialists power. They don't care that their actions make the actions of those (growing fewer) Japanese that try to uphold the truth. Simple as that.

It's easier to have their masses frothingly scream "aiguo" and focus their anger on anything related to this topic. What they are doing has absolutely nothing to do with the Japan's wartime crimes, whether proven or disproven.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Do you honestly think those railroads were built for the Chinese and Koreans? They were built to transport extracted grain and minerals for Japan's economy and war effort. Anyhow, most of that infrastructure was destroyed during the Chinese Civil War and Korean War.

Korea was colonized. Period. The Japanese assassins brutally murdered the Korean Empress and suppressed a rebellion in 1919. How can you claim that the country was an ally when there was an active independence movement against Japan? Ridiculous.

Nobody is denying that there were Korean traitors and that much of the population went along with occupation. Most normal people had no choice after decades of subjugation and manipulation.

And Korea was well on its way to becoming a modernized country before the Japanese forcefully annexed it. You should know that Seoul was the FIRST city in East Asia in the late 19th century to have electricity, trolley cars, water, telephone, and telegraph all at the same time (even before Tokyo).

http://books.google.com.sa/books?id=3h080YYhS3QC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=seoul+first+city+in+east+asia+telegraph+electricity&source=bl&ots=vLFPHfWh1O&sig=d5J5X5CUH6cp02h7gOBz3JqRDsw&hl=ko&sa=X&ei=rlNeU7aBLuaK0AWMooGgAQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=seoul%20first%20city%20in%20east%20asia%20telegraph%20electricity&f=false

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Sir Edgar

during the amalgamation of the Korean peninsula into Greater Japan, both the population and life expectancy doubled.

That is a huge success in development terms. If the same could be achieved in, say, sub-Sahara Africa, all of the development aid NGOs would be dancing with joy and hailed as genii.

Similar levels of investment, a huge proportion of the Japanese GDP, went into both the Korean peninsula and the Manchuria Japan was awarded for beating the Russians.

The moderators tend to come down hard on such discussion but you need to study the history of courtesan Min etc a little deeper, she was an awful and vicious tyrant who ran nation down and was going to sell out to the Russians.

What you are stating is absolutely contrary to the facts.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

CH3CHOAPR. 28, 2014 - 06:09PM JST igloobuyerApr. 28, 2014 - 05:47PM JST Yes, that is how Japanese may feel, Chinese and Koreans have their own perspective. My point is we need resolution between the 3 nations and just pointing fingers and saying "it's there fault - they have to change" is unproductive and results in an endless feud. That resolution was concluded between Korea and Japan in 1965, and between China and Japan in 1972. All the reparation claims were cleared by those agreements. Yet, South Korea is ever busy trying to claim reparation for ianfu, and China clearly violated the 1972 agreement by siezing Mitsui OSK ship. what can Japan offer to Korea and China? It does not mean Korea and China can take second, third, forth and so on bite out of the same thing. As to ianfu reparation, this is Korea's 3rd bite out of the same thing. If you want to give some advice, understand the issue first, for ill informed advice is likely to make things worse beyond repair.

So what you're saying is, no matter what, we (Japanese), are totally right and we won't listen to anything the Chinese or Koreans say because they are all just lying and conniving to get more money out of Japan. We (Japanese) have already paid you for what we do for you with the 1972 treaty so we don't care what you say we won't listen. That's your belief: That is the best position for Japan to take on improving relations between Japan, Korea and China? Is that the attitude of a modern, developed, mature and peaceful nation?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

letsberealisticApr. 28, 2014 - 09:02AM JST You are painting it in a very positive light for Japan and doing exactly what you are accusing Korea of doing by >revising history.

Not at all. I am painting the true picture, rather than the history denying whitewash version that South Korea teaches. The colonial period of Korea had both benefits and non-benefits. There were Koreans both for and against Japanese rule. But from the moment Japan surrendered in 1945 Koreans have quickly pretended to be one of the Asian "victims". There are many Asians who were killed by Koreans in the Japanese military. Those Koreans made use of the Comfort Women System. These are just some of the facts that South Korea pretends does not exist.

Sir_EdgarApr. 28, 2014 - 10:15PM JST

Do you honestly think those railroads were built for the Chinese and Koreans? They were built to transport extracted >grain and minerals for Japan's economy and war effort. Anyhow, most of that infrastructure was destroyed during the >Chinese Civil War and Korean War.

Railroads, streets, buildings, schools, infrastructure was brought to a backwards Korea by Jap[an. Even the life expectancy in Korea improved from a better diet. Korea was a basket case of a country under Chinese (Qing) domination.

Korea was colonized. Period. The Japanese assassins brutally murdered the Korean Empress and suppressed a >rebellion in 1919. How can you claim that the country was an ally when there was an active independence movement >against Japan? Ridiculous.

BFD. Korea was colonized for 35 years. India was colonized for 342 years. Indonesia 149 years. The Philippines for 381 years. Yes there was an active independence movement but it did not reflect the majority of the Korean people.

Nobody is denying that there were Korean traitors and that much of the population went along with occupation. Most >normal people had no choice after decades of subjugation and manipulation.

Really? When has the South Korean government actually attempted to lay blame to the countless Korean agents who recruited the Comfort women? Or the Koreans who even ran some of the Comfort Stations? Claiming no responsibility because they were "subjugated and manipulated" is lame. Is that why Korean soldiers in nthe IJS beat allied POWs to death?

And Korea was well on its way to becoming a modernized country before the Japanese forcefully annexed it. You >should know that Seoul was the FIRST city in East Asia in the late 19th century to have electricity, trolley cars, water, >telephone, and telegraph all at the same time (even before Tokyo).

ROTFLMAO.

-8 ( +3 / -10 )

OssanAmerica

It's very hard to take anything you (and a few other posters here) say seriously when the only attitude you show towards Koreans is so very flippant and condescending. It's quite clear that you feel you and the Japanese are superior in every way. That kind of makes any balanced discussion with you impossible, doesn't it .

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Sad but true...

"Our system has been creating young people who get annoyed by all the complaints that China and South Korea make about war atrocities because they are not taught what they are complaining about," she said.

"It is very dangerous because some of them may resort to the internet to get more information and then they start believing the nationalists' views that Japan did nothing wrong." By Mariko Oi

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

2 ( +5 / -3 )

"So what you're saying is, no matter what, we (Japanese), are totally right and we won't listen to anything the Chinese or Koreans say because they are all just lying and conniving to get more money out of Japan. We (Japanese) have already paid you for what we do for you with the 1972 treaty so we don't care what you say we won't listen. That's your belief: That is the best position for Japan to take on improving relations between Japan, Korea and China? Is that the attitude of a modern, developed, mature and peaceful nation?"

This applies to all parties and not just the Japanese. A relationship is as good as the mutual actions of both parties. What you say I agree with, but to only address it to the Japanese (I wasn't too sure if this was your intent) is really manifestly unfair.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

lighterAPR. 28, 2014 - 11:37PM JST

Sad but true... "Our system has been creating young people who get annoyed by all the complaints that China and South Korea make about war atrocities because they are not taught what they are complaining about," she said. "It is very dangerous because some of them may resort to the internet to get more information and then they start believing the nationalists' views that Japan did nothing wrong." By Mariko Oi http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068

That explains a lot and is crucial really isn't it. Young Japanese have very limited access to information unless they are fluent in English - most content about relations between Korea,China and Japan is going to be written by the more motivated right-wing extremists and this appeals to Japanese youth.

When I presented a news story to my students on the horrifying story of a Dutch women's experiences as a 'comfort women' and asked them to learn more about 'comfort women' independently most of them searched in the Japanese Internet seeking to discredit her experiences - they weren't interested in the facts or finding similar experiences. One even claimed to find an article in Japanese stating that many of the 'comfort women' got rich from her their lives as comfort women.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

You'll find a similar set of circumstances in the PRC where any mention of Japanese aid or help, etc, let alone apologies is either obliterated or only at best, very lightly mentioned.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

TohkaAPR. 28, 2014 - 11:54PM JST "So what you're saying is, no matter what, we (Japanese), are totally right and we won't listen to anything the Chinese or Koreans say because they are all just lying and conniving to get more money out of Japan. We (Japanese) have already paid you for what we do for you with the 1972 treaty so we don't care what you say we won't listen. That's your belief: That is the best position for Japan to take on improving relations between Japan, Korea and China? Is that the attitude of a modern, developed, mature and peaceful nation?" This applies to all parties and not just the Japanese. A relationship is as good as the mutual actions of both parties. What you say I agree with, but to only address it to the Japanese (I wasn't too sure if this was your intent) is really manifestly unfair.

Ah, there it is again, the finger pointing. This is how children often respond to criticism, "but teacher he did it too!", "he did it first Mom!", 'I won't say sorry until he says sorry first!'.

What we should expect from adults is for them to take responsibility for their own actions and realise that 'we should act towards others the way we hope others will act towards us', not 'we will only act the way we want others to act to us when they act to us that way first'!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"What we should expect from adults is for them to take responsibility for their own actions and realise that 'we should act towards others the way we hope others will act towards us', not 'we will only act the way we want others to act to us when they act to us that way first'!"

That's not my intent and I agree with you in that people need to take responsibility.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Tohka its a comment by mariko oi, I was pointing that her comment sounds justifiable since we are on the topic on Japan and their history. In fact the 1972 treaty should of ease tensions. But denials started to surface as soon as the treaty was signed. Prior to 1970s you will have confessions from Japanese soldiers openly admitting their atrocities. Ever since ww2 ended Japanese were taught little about the war

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Certainly the sexual slavery was an atrocity and Japan should do more to educate people, ala Germany. But I have my doubts about anything China comes up with either. A bit to convenient, isn't it?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

China.

yawn

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@ igloobuyer

You and your like don't want to "persuade young Japanese to become more compassionate towards their neighbours" ... where is your evidence suggest they are not!?! What on earth does such a euphemism mean?

Nor is it to encourage individuals "take responsibility for their own actions".

Today's Japanese have absolutely no take responsibility for other actions or action done before they were born.

I think what mean is push guilt and shame on young Japanese in order to manipulate them to whatever end it is your like has.

I'd would be good if historians investigated these documents first, not journalists.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

While there were 148 Koreans indicted for war crimes after WW2 there were also 178 Taiwanese, which never seems to raise an issue on this forum. There were 5,700 Japanese indicted. Compare the number of convicted Korean collaborators to the number of slave laborers (667,680) and you can see how minimal it actually was. In comparison, there were entire Divisions of Dutch (SS Nordland) as well as Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Estonians, Finns and Belgians (SS Viking) that volunteered to fight with the SS in WW2, yet I doubt anyone would suggest those countries were an accomplice of Germany. LIke Austrians were into the Wehrmacht, Koreans and Taiwanese were conscripted into the IJA. For people, particularly Japanese, to now start pointing fingers and accusing Koreans of complicity, is shameful, and frankly reeks of ethnocentricity.

Those are lame comparisons. There were estimated 240,000 Koreans serving for IJA and in some years like 1942, 254,273 Koreans applied for 4,077 spots which is almost 60 times the said quota. This isn't about some "division" volunteering. This is essentially the general population in the Peninsula rising to contribute to the cause of Japan.

On the flip side, you had the Provisional Government of Korea established in 1919 which were stationed in various parts of China but their efforts were even dismissed by Chiang Kai Shek in later years and received virtually no assistance from people in the Peninsula. If you want comparisons to minor "volunteers", that's where you should start.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

That 'however' is all that needs to be said to clarify your stance on the rape and murder of countless women. Congrats!

Did my position need clarifying? I thought I pretty explicitly stated that my position was that Japan committed many atrocities during the war.

What you're doing is pretty typical polarizing politics, "I'm right, everyone else is wrong and there's no such thing as middle ground." It's not doing the discussion on the issues any favors. If it weren't for people like you who go along blindly with the Korean and Chinese mentality of "WW2 happened so Japan can never have anything nice," the world would have moved along years ago and this wouldn't be an issue anymore, like it isn't an issue with Germany (who did WAY worse things), anymore.

The fact you responded only to that small section and not to the remainder of the issues I raised with your position demonstrates clearly that either A. you realize you are wrong and are now sinking to intellectual dishonesty for the sake of appearing to be in the right on an internet forum, or B. you actually don't care about the facts or having an accurate opinion, but simply wish to appear correct on an internet forum.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

That's funny. By the year 1944 in Korea, many Koreans by the thousands were forcefully recruited by the Japanese military. Even the Japanese initially revolted against the conscription system. You think that the Koreans would be willing to give up their lives for the emperor? There may have been few who were crazy enough, but they were the minority.

The enactment of draft was implemented on September of 1944 and the notices were given in December. From January of 1945 to July, they went on a training period. In other words, those that were drafted didn't see any action.

Don't know if they were "willing to give up their lives for the emperor" but when you have over 800,000 volunteer applicants from 1938-1943, I'd say they were willing to contribute to the cause of Japan.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

smithinjapan, well said, your points made above are logical, clear and valid regarding Japan’s wartime hideous atrocities on those sex slaves. Guess what, Japanese right wingers’ denials in this forum are futile and self-criminating

Those revisionists and war-guilt deniers in Japan should ask themselves a simple question, How many countries including Japan’s longterm allies havr sided or sympathized with Japan on the Japanese wartime sex slavery ? (the answer is next to none,in case, those people don’t want admit.)

For Japanese revisionists and war-guilt deniers, the future seems getting dimmer each day. Even Abe, a spokesman of Japanese nationalists, is starting to shift his position. He found out that defending sex slavery comes at a great cost to Japan’s national image and also to the US strategic interests.

For anyone who would be interested, ref to the web link below to see for yourself.

http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20140428p2a00m0na003000c.html

1 ( +4 / -2 )

OssanAmerica: When has the South Korean government actually attempted to lay blame to the countless Korean agents who recruited the Comfort women?

Totally wrong. Last fall my son and I visited Korea and went to the Independence Hall of Korea in Cheonan. This is the official government museum that focuses on the Japanese colonization of Korea. They had a large exhibit dedicated to the Comfort Women and they made it very clear that Korean agents were involved (in Korean, English and Japanese). This included a large, full scale diorama showing a Korean agent being handed money as an ox-cart with young Korea girls is being lead away by Japanese troops. So get your facts straight.

And JoeBigs, I suppose the Japanese veterans confessing to atrocities they committed in China (including rape and murdering babies) in this BBC documentary were also products of the Communist Chinese propaganda machine? And all those pictures and film footage are all clever CCP forgeries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv-RW2FP1tQ

Watch the whole 7 minutes as it also refers to "thousands of documents" held by the Japanese Government that have not yet been released. Will you claim they are also fakes if they are ever released?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Markus LApr. 29, 2014 - 08:20AM JST And JoeBigs, I suppose the Japanese veterans confessing to atrocities they committed in China (including rape and murdering babies) in this BBC documentary were also products of the Communist Chinese propaganda machine?

No Markus, they were produced by the BBC in 2000.

Now, why are you trying to equate the BBC series "Horror in the East" to the release of 89 documents by Communist China? Are you claiming that they are in someway related to the BBC or maybe the BBC itself is involved in the release of the 89 document by Communist China?

Please do tell, has the BBC authenticated these documents, or are you trying to make a point by using another source?

Now, Markus as usual you have jumped the gun. First off no one is defending what Japan did during WWII. Hell, we isn't even trying to defend what the allies did.

The question here is has anyone actually gone through and taken an unbiased look at these documents? Next the other question folks are asking is a real simple one, why did they release only these 89 document? Why not release all the documents that they had?

The simplest answer is usually the correct one, they released these 89 documents because they help them to paint Japan in a bad light today.

Are they forgeries or possibly edited in someway, there is a good possibility that they are.

Providing false information in an effort to win a propaganda war isn't something new. It's SOP in every nations propaganda handbooks. BTW, SOP stands for Standard Operating Procedure.

There are a few books I can recommend for your reading pleasure if you wish, all you need to do is just ask.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

sfjp330

I generally agree with your posts, and this one is no different. The points you make are valid. I do however feel that the argument that China and Korea are simply redirecting their citizens anger and dissatisfaction away from their own governments toward Japan is overly used, particularly in Japan. Polls seem to indicate that the vast majority of Chinese view their government positively and feel they are doing an excellent job. The problem is the sincerity of the Japanese government in addressing these issues. And your comments about the Japan-Korea Treaty are also correct. Unfortunately reparations paid are often not directed toward the actual victims. This also occurred in Europe. Also, Japanese reparations (and Aid in general) is often perceived to benefit large Japanese companies, who profit from the technology transfers and mega-projects that these monies pay for. The way to address both the issues you raise, is for the Prime Minister (or perhaps the Emperor) to make a state visit to China and Korea and lay wreaths in Nanjing and Seoul, and formerly and sincerely apologize for Japan's wartime atrocities and colonialism. Until that happens, the wounds felt by these nations will not heal. Germany has done that and the issue settled. Do you feel this is unreasonable?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

bfg: "I would never put it past them to exaggerate Japan's acts as much as they can, and I would NEVER, EVER, EVER put it past China to falsify these documents, or at the very, very least only produce those which contain no evidence of misdoings by Chinese officials."

So prove they're false. All we've got so far is the usual bandwagon deniers jumping up and shouting foul because it's China that produced the documents, and needless to point out in a time when relations have soured thanks to Japan (ie. this all started with them 'buying' the islands). It's the typical knee-jerk reaction to not liking the fact that Japan has been proven in the wrong yet again. And what do the apologists have to say? "Well... ahem... some wrongs were done during war... ahem... but uhhh... those dirty South Koreans and Chinese are evil!", etc. Just look at Ossan:

"Railroads, streets, buildings, schools, infrastructure was brought to a backwards Korea by Jap[an."

the guy can't for ONE SECOND stop blaming Korea for everything under the sun even on an article about CHINA bringing up documents about Japanese atrocities!

If it weren't so pathetic it would be funny.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

89 letters don't make Communist China's modern position any better or Japan's modern position any worse. All these letters do is remind the world that Communist China is continuing with their propaganda campaign against Japan.

I also find it funny how Communist China wasn't a nation after the war, but are using these so called letters/documents proof of atrocities committed by Japan. When Mao himself thanked Japan for the war it had against the KMT.

But, when one deals in a propaganda campaign one must use whatever it can to win it, no matter how hypocritical it might be.

Look up the Red Terror Campaign Communist China waged against it's own people during the Chinese Civil war if you want to know what I am talking about.

Hypocrisy and propaganda goose-step down the same road.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Japan engaged war in China a long long time ago. Not wordprocessor used documents. China could be sorting and sorting these documents/ Many could be brush stroke written documents, No typewriters yet. I mean no kanji typewriters yet. I don't know there were pens or pencils that time. One thing for sure. Historians of wars must be glad that they have these documents available now.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Polls seem to indicate that the vast majority of Chinese view their government positively and feel they are doing an excellent job.

Because on those polls, the two options were "I love the government" and "No, please execute me quietly and seize my family's assets."

The way to address both the issues you raise, is for the Prime Minister (or perhaps the Emperor) to make a state visit to China and Korea and lay wreaths in Nanjing and Seoul, and formerly and sincerely apologize for Japan's wartime atrocities and colonialism.

Good God, should he bow down and kiss Mao Zedong's grave, too? Formal and sincere apologies (and reparations) have already taken place.

jumping up and shouting foul because it's China that produced the documents

We're talking about the country from which some 90% of the world's counterfeit goods originate. When something is presented by a serial liar and forger (and a country that censors the media and internet), the burden of proof is on the liar to prove they're not actually lying. China is the boy who cried wolf, and the villagers aren't listening this time.

I just can't for the life of me figure out why you are so quick to take the word of the Chinese government. It just boggles my mind. Don't bother to reply, I know your response is going to be something to the tune of Japan being a nation of liars and revisionists or something.

this all started with them 'buying' the islands

Please. China never objected to Japan having those islands until resources were discovered on them. Now all of a sudden they produced a 2000-year-old-map (fresh off their fancy new laser printer) that shows "nuh-uh, it's been ours all along."

Japan has been proven in the wrong yet again.

That word...I don't think it means what you think it means.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Markus LApr. 29, 2014 - 08:20AM JST "OssanAmerica: When has the South Korean government actually attempted to lay blame to the countless Korean agents who recruited the Comfort women?"

Totally wrong. Last fall my son and I visited Korea and went to the Independence Hall of Korea in Cheonan. This is the >official government museum that focuses on the Japanese colonization of Korea

So they made this public in South Korea? But blaming Japan for everything is on a global scale? Why is it I haven't read one story in any western news source about this? It's because South Korea exports anti-Japan stories but hides any self blame from the world.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

When it comes to illegal criminal activities involving Imperial Army during the war in China who's claim do you think is more accurate? The victim's (CHN) claim or the perpetrator's (JPN) claim?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When has one ever be able to trust Communist Party propaganda?

Has China evolved to the degree that academic have absolute liberty to investigate objective truths?

Go on ... make us laugh.

Where you way of thinking is faulted, tokyodoumo, is where you portray both China and Japan as one.

There are plenty of fine academics, open critics of the government and even communists in Japan whose investigation one could trust. The fact is, unlike as in China or even South Korea so far, they are openly allowed to.

Chinese were also perpetrating "crimes" on Chinese, did so before and continued on after WWII, more than 100,000 actually fought for and with the Japanese.

Could you trust anything coming out of China?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

tokyodoumoApr. 30, 2014 - 02:21AM JST When it comes to illegal criminal activities involving Imperial Army during the war in China who's claim do you think is more accurate? The victim's (CHN) claim or the perpetrator's (JPN) claim?

It really doesn't matter if there is additional wartime documents. The facts speaks for itself. The barabaric behavior ocurred throughout China during 1931-45. There appear to be virtually no limits placed on Japanese soldiers. Rape, torture, mutalation, murder were all permitted. The Japanese Army did not take Chinese POWS. They were all simplly killed shortly after surrendering, and often in brutal ways such as being used in bayonet practice, beheaded, burried alive, or in myriad other ways. Given the extensive nature of the atrocities perpetrated in China, it appears to have been something both ordered by the high command and in the nature of the individual Japanese soldier. The Japanese did not have industrial gas chambers like the Germans.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Research into Japanese war crimes continue. For various reason, the US and it's allies were not interested in really prosecuting Japanese war crimes except when it related to their own civilians and soldiers. So historically, the full extent of the crimes commuted by IJA has not been fully documented. Also, unlike the Germans documented everything to make sure there was a historic record of their activity because the leaders were proud of what they did, the Japanese leaders order the destruction of documentation. Obviously, the Japanese leaders were not proud of what they did since start of the war and wanted to destroy evidence. The research in this area has concentrated on 1) Japanese war atrocities, 2) mistreatment of POWs and civilian laborers, 3) biological and chemical warfare and 4) forced prostituton, "Comfort Women". It has only been in this century that historians started looking at other criminal activity as drug trafficking and theft. Documentation will be popping up from many sources since the US did not have an interest in fully prosecuting war criminals after the war. At least 3 former PMs of Japan were not prosecuted even though there was evidence to prosecute them as class A war criminals. As for why China would release documents now? They thought it would be an advantage for them to do so. They still hold a mass amount of documentation that is not public. The US has been declassifying such documentation for years now, including those about Unit 731 and 100 but the more direct documentation are held by Russia and China. I would expect more to follow the stronger Japan protests.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

sfjp330Apr. 30, 2014 - 03:57AM JST It really doesn't matter if there is additional wartime documents. The facts speaks for itself. The barabaric behavior >ocurred throughout China during 1931-45. There appear to be virtually no limits placed on Japanese soldiers. Rape, >torture, mutalation, murder were all permitted

That's really total nonsense. If it were true then China would NOT be making an issue about Nanking because it would be insignificant in comparison to what you describe. Furthermore there would have been more charges brought at the Tokyo Trials. Incidentally in case you were not aware, China (ROC) tried to prosecute the "Nanking Massacre" on the basis of 100,000 casualties but the Victorious Allied Powers' Court dismissed it for lack of evidence,

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Indeed many of Japan's most notorious war criminals were not convicted due primarily to their recruitment into the anti-communist cause and, in the case of Unit 731, in exchange for their research into the results of chemical and biological warfare, based on human experimentation. One of the most notorious is Yoshio Kodama, extreme right-winger and Yakuza boss who made a personal fortune running the organized looting of China and SE Asia (in an operation allegedly headed by the Emperor's brother, Prince Chichibu), as well as the manufacture of crystal meth and heroin in Manchuria. The U.S. intelligence community later secured his release in exchange for his aid in fighting communism in Japan and Asia. Perhaps the cruelest was Col. Masanobu Tsuji, a pathologically brutal staff officer of the IJA who among others, bore responsibility for massacres in Singapore and the Philippines (including the Bataan Death March). Among his boasts was having never spent a day in prison and cannibalism following his execution of an American POW. After the war he was employed by Chaing Kai-shek. He became a celebrated author in Japan when he published his memoirs. He later became a member of the Diet.

As for Unit 731.. >After discovering the research papers, MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 and it's leaders,including Kitano Masaji, who later founded Green Cross Corp. (now Mitsubishi Pharma Corporation) in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare and data from human experimentation.The Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal heard only one reference to Japanese experiments with "poisonous serums" on Chinese civilians.

1 ( +3 / -3 )

This morning, the documents released by China were aired in Japanese news programs. The documents were torn and large part of them was missing. There was no mention who tore the documents.

Markus LApr. 29, 2014 - 08:20AM JST

This included a large, full scale diorama showing a Korean agent being handed money as an ox-cart with young Korea girls is being lead away by Japanese troops. So get your facts straight.

Oh, their imagination is limitless. Were their any cases where an ox-cart was used for carrying young women? As far as I know, none of the self claimed ianfu testified she was carried away by an ox-cart. Fiction should be distinguished from facts.

-4 ( +3 / -6 )

This article goes into more detail about the contents of the files and why the files are being released now...

http://english.cri.cn/6909/2014/04/29/2361s824361.htm

Deniers and revisionists in Japan (like CH3CHO) have brought this upon themselves it seems, as the documents are being released "because of recent denials by right-wing Japanese politicians of the use of 'comfort women' during the war". So keep it up, there's more to come. Hopefully most Japanese will start to see what an embarrassment you are to your country.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Markus LApr. 30, 2014 - 11:45AM JST

Truth is my friend and I welcome release of documents hidden by Chinese government. I think it should have done so earlier. I also regret that the documents were torn down and large part of them was missing.

As Wang mentions, archive records from November 1944 to March 1945, show that 532,000 Japanese yen was transferred by the "central bank" of Manchukuo for the arrangement of "comfort women" for a military branch, under an account described as "public spending for military use".

These documents just confirm what the Japanese has been arguing. Ianfu were prostitutes, who applied for the job in return for a large amount of advance payment. We also have news paper advertisements during ww2 for the job offering of ianfu, in which large advance payment is promised. If the ianfu were randomly abducted, there would have been no need for the money. The released documents are nothing surprising.

Hopefully most Japanese will start to see what an embarrassment you are to your country.

I hope you also see the truth someday.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

""The most impressive file for me is the telephone recording which shows that the Japanese army spent large amounts of money purchasing 'comfort women'. All the statistics show that the procurement of 'comfort women' was systematically carried out by the Japanese military."

What??? I thought all the "Comfort Women" were kidnapped and they were Sex Slaves! What does all this money have to do with this?

0 ( +3 / -2 )

What??? I thought all the "Comfort Women" were kidnapped and they were Sex Slaves! What does all this money have to do with this?

532,000 yen when IJA soldiers were receiving 6-13 yen a month. Moon Ok Ju, who served as a comfort woman had savings of 26,000 yen.

-3 ( +4 / -6 )

"Tohka its a comment by mariko oi, I was pointing that her comment sounds justifiable since we are on the topic on Japan and their history. In fact the 1972 treaty should of ease tensions. But denials started to surface as soon as the treaty was signed. Prior to 1970s you will have confessions from Japanese soldiers openly admitting their atrocities. Ever since ww2 ended Japanese were taught little about the war"

I've read that and I think it's a great balanced perspective on the whole issue.

"Polls seem to indicate that the vast majority of Chinese view their government positively and feel they are doing an excellent job. "

I am Chinese myself and that is the funniest thing I've ever read. Bull!@# doesn't even begin to cut the tip of the iceberg.

While I love Japan overall, don't think that I unconditionally support all aspects of it, I have no love for the right wingers as they are people who have long exceeded their use by date of 1945. They hold the country back and waste our money and time. On the other side though, do not, for even a split second, ever think that the CCP have a sense of moralistic altruism. Everything they do is specially timed and scripted, and this event is no exception. I would not put it above them to have been sitting on these documents for some time before this "surprise" discovery.

I'll even go out on a limb to say what is in some (or many) of these documents may very well be true. You'd be really naive to think otherwise on these last two points.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

CH3CHO: " Fiction should be distinguished from facts."

You'd be out of a job, and a culture, if you got this wish.

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I'm not sure what the connotation of 慰安婦 was back in those days. Literally, it does mean "comfort woman". But I wonder if it was like "woman of the night" or "hooker" or something like that. We all know what it "really" means, but for those of us who are not 慰安婦 or "woman of the night", we really can't face what it is really about. In any case, it sure was different from "The Happy Hooker". I always use "forced prostitution" when I am talking in English.

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gokai_wo_manekuMay. 02, 2014 - 05:48PM JST I always use "forced prostitution" when I am talking in English.

Why would you use "forced"? While there may have been some who were indeed forced there exists very little evidence that "most" were forced. Your use of the term, rather than the highly accurate "Military Prostitutes" is on the same level as "sex slaves". Have you ever read the 1944 US Army interrogation report? http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html

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