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China sends fighters to ID flights by U.S. and Japan

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By IAN MADER

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These countries need to bring China's actions to the ICP. They think if they keep up with persistence the rest of the world will believe eventually give in and believe them... China wants to play a waiting game.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Yup China bit off more than it can chew. Now has to send fighters to "observe and confirm" foreign flights to let the angry warmongering Chinese public know they are doing something. The declaration that china would only apply ADIZ enforcement to JP aircraft went out the window as US and JP planes are now flying together.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

I just want to tell everyone that more and more US media are now paying attention to this situation very closely. Please keep up your good quality posts for global audience. They are listening. We can make a difference. Thank you.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Ossan

Yup China bit off more than it can chew.

Well, let's hope they realise that, and spit it out.

But I'm not convinced they will. They seem to be heading inexorably the other way. They are either manipulating the situation to create the right conditions for conflict as they see it, or, are already committed to a course of action they can't back down from for domestic reasons for fear of appearing weak.

Either way, the Communist party of China, who have visited so much misery on the people of China already, are continuing to do them another grave disservice here. I am sure there are a lot of people in China who don't want this - I think that's important to acknowledge. In the same way there were in Japan and Germany in 1939. But you get an extremist 'government' with very unbalanced views and agendas driving the gun wagon and things can go pear shaped in the worst possible way.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Tamarama, I think we all hope that China will back down. But I think we all also agree that there is the possibility that China will continue this dangerous game. More than once the west is left wondering if the CCP government is really in control of the PLA or the other way around.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The great China can't afford to go to war neither Japan nor the US but China does not seem to realize that targeting Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, and other countries it bullies into submission, they are creating a situation that they themselves can no longer control.

China is going down because manufacturing has hollowed out in China, the real estate bubble has burst, and China is in deep economic trouble. All this to mask, it has to divert the attention of its citizens to Japan which is an easy target.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

The guy in the picture isn't looking at the top article, I think. Maybe he's checking the Lotto results or something.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=pol_30&k=2013112901014

Looks like another lie coming from China to appease their masses.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

All this needs to blow up into a major conflict is one rash decision, one missile or one act of bravado too far. Just like how WW1 started.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Ossan: "Tamarama, I think we all hope that China will back down."

I hope they do. I don't think you honestly do, though. How would you vent? All I can say is that if this tit-for-tat crap continues that Ishihara started we're going to start seeing some incidents of people being injured or dying. NONE of this was happening before April of last year.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

Smith, you should be tracing this problem all the way back to 1970. Ishihara was at most just one part in the process.

Now, just to point one thing out. If China wants to send fighters to look at what's up there, that's their right. They ARE right about that much. Nothing much we can all do about it.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

As an American, I would be proud to be on any Japanese flight across the ADIZ, especially any flight that Japan believes might be shot down or forced down. Pay my way; I'll be there.

As an American on such a flight, I expect China to exercise extreme restraint. My death or incarceration should prove sufficient inducement to the US to intervene with more missiles than words.

Let me know when you wish me to participate in proving China is a Paper Tiger.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

To summarize the events thus far in a comical manner.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/hikaru2013/imgs/a/5/a5361b82-s.jpg

2 ( +4 / -2 )

In 1983 the Russians shot down a Korean civilian airliner killing some 270 passengers and crew on board. The Russians claim was the airline flew into sensitive air space. What makes anyone think that China is not on the same path.....

6 ( +8 / -2 )

smithinjapanNov. 30, 2013 - 09:19AM JST Ossan: "Tamarama, I think we all hope that China will back down." I hope they do. I don't think you honestly do, though. How would you vent?

I can always keep destroying your puerile incorrect thoughtless anti-US, anti-JP posts for fun.

All I can say is that if this tit-for-tat crap continues that Ishihara started we're going to start seeing some incidents of >people being injured or dying. NONE of this was happening before April of last year.

Ishihara didn't start it. PLAN were talking about these plans 2002/2003. But don't let the facts stop your usual anti_JP diatribe.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

"However, there are questions whether China has the technical ability to fully enforce the zone due to a shortage of early warning radar aircraft and in-flight refueling capability."

As usual the PRC has overestimated their ability to do what needs to be done. This paper tiger now has to play a shadow puppet game to appease their fascist at home.

But in the long run history shall repeat itself and the PRC will be in another civil war.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The Japanese government paid the "owner" of the Senkakus (who lives in Tokyo) for title to his islands, and was stupid enough to believe they could present the world with a fait accompli. This is akin to knowingly buying a stolen car from a thief. They knew the property was disputed, and then engaged in a shameless grab for it. Is anyone surprised that China is acting the way it is?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

To echo Galapagos, Japan went back on their word to co-develop the islands when they nationalized it. This acquisition is what has led to the escalation. I'm for a win-win scenario for all parties and that's to go back to co-developing the islands as originally agreed. The alternatives - dead soldiers and civilians, a crippled economy - benefit nobody.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

I burst out laughing upon reading this. Two Chinese jets for a dozen US and Japanese? Where'd their loud barking go? I guess it's true, the weakest dog barks loudest. They still aren't fulfilling their own criteria. Where's the demands for a flight path? For nationality? For intent? For the two way communication? They stated that all foreign planes must provide that information, must abide by those rules. And China aren't enforcing their own rules. Not that anyone's obeying. 10 different Japanese aircraft? That's a bold statement without the need for words from Japan. They will continue doing this, and China will continue "monitoring", which simply means watching their position getting weaker and weaker, while their humiliation grows and grows. Keep it up Japan/US and indeed S Korea and Taiwan as well. Undermine China's almost non-existent credibiity and they'll soon back off, as any weak dog would.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Slay this dragon now, before your children and grandchildren will suffer from this Communist B.S. Never trust these chicoms, we saw them in the Korean Peninsula War the evils of Communism and enslavement of it's people. Gen. Mac Arthur was right he should have finished it in China not in the Dmz line.

Look what happened to Tibet? they will not stop till they get all the islands in the Pacific. Next ? India's territories (Water resources), Japan and the Philippines.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

If a sentence in the forth to last paragraph is correct, ie. "..China has said its zone is not intended to have any effect on commercial flights not heading to China.", then they have back-tracked big time. Initially, to merely fly through the zone, for example from Korea to Okinawa, the communist Chinese were demanding identification and control. If the statement is correct, then they have implemented nothing, and caved to international pressure, or have come to their senses. This is how all of these zones declared by other countries work, that is, an aircraft in the zone only needs to identify itself if bound for the subject country.

Also, the fact that they send military patrols into the area is NO NEWS at all. They have the perfect freedom and right to do that, as do ALL OTHER COUNTRIES into INTERNATIONAL waters and airspace.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The statement was denied by Japanese officials, calling it "detarame"--translate: ranging from "nonsense", to "not an ounce of truth in it"!! So it's a lie, but why China needs to lie to its people? Because in China you are dead if you show your weakness or if you let people see you commit a mistake and you admit it. So it's an issue of life-and-death importance and everything be done to save face.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

OssanAmericaNov. 30, 2013 - 08:22AM JST

if the CCP government is really in control of the PLA or the other way around.

I believe Japan and US intelligence has already figure that one out. Therefore, Joe Baiden's pre planned trip to China is very critical. He is not going to waste his breath by asking a right question; what they are planning to do with ADIZ. If their reasoning is not justified, then he is not afraid to tell them that US and Japan will not tolerate it. Joe knows China is testing US.

This is my brief summary of this conflict. I believe a long term objective of PRC strategy is to destroy a core mutual trust of US/Japan Peace Treaty because it will be the quickest and easiest way to take over the Asian air/sea. Therefore, we need be always smarter and have to move in ten steps ahead of them. Hope you agree, Ossan.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The United States and Japan uses sophisticated radar. China must be using binoculars?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Galapagos: "is akin to knowingly buying a stolen car from a thief. They knew the property was disputed, and then engaged in a shameless grab for it. Is anyone surprised that China is acting the way it is?"

More than that, it's like knowingly buying a stoel car from a thief and proudly announcing it to the police.

Ossan: "Yup, bashing your a ti-US anti-J agenda."

Grow up. You guys always throw out the 'J-basher' or other similar terms using basher when you don't like the comment, and that's all it is. I completely support the US presence in Japan, so is that bashing? I was glad they flew the bombers in the newly declared Chinese airspace, so is that bashing? I have said China is being unnecessarily arrogant and aggressive, so is that J-bashing? You simply do not like it when the fact that it's a two-sided problem (the US being on par with Japan). It's NOT only China that is causing problems. You cannot deny that fact, so you simply resort to calling it 'bashing'.

China's move here is simply a response to Japan and the US entering the air-space, nothing more. Obviously they're not trying to take on superior numbers by flighting two fighters into the air-space. So once again, tit-for-tat.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

"This is my brief summary of this conflict. I believe a long term objective of PRC strategy is to destroy a core mutual trust of US/Japan Peace Treaty because it will be the quickest and easiest way to take over the Asian air/sea. " Yes, and it's like playing go chess. China is probably not a paper tiger. Well, they are brain washed, but they are also damned intelligent.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Wulfe N. Straat You probaly can't afford an airline ticket at the moment and it will take you a few months to save for the cost. Just stay at home and wait for the social security check. You will be fine.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

At this particular junction, America welcomes a military conflicts between any countries in the Asia. The result is clear, arm sales going up, debt going down, and possibly a debt forfeiture. Anyway, it works to the interest of American people.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Something is happening internally with the PRC's power elite. This zone nonsense is crazy--and I think it is a distracter. I suspect there is going to be a revolt within the state, followed by a purge. After that, whoever takes control will likely start to mend fences. What is happening is not good for the PRC's business. The only thing I can see is that the people on top are creating an unnecessary crisis to save their skins.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Not to mention, with all their military might and intellect they still can't secure Afghanistan. Most Americans have a false image of their own country thanks to their own war mongering propaganda machine.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Investigate my *** Yea, Whatever...

They sent fighters up into Japan's ADIZ to Threaten, Intimidate, and Harass U.S. Forces, South Korean Forces, and Japanese Forces operating in INTERNATIONAL WATERS AND OVER "INTERNATIONAL AIRSPACE"!!!!

From now on, Japans ADIZ should be know to the world as "THE FREEDOM ZONE". All countries that honor Freedom and Democracy are always welcome in "The Freedom Zone."

Any threat from Communist China (who do not honor freedom and democracy) in the Newly Established "Freedom Zone", no matter how small the threat, should be answered with only one solution: A buring Chinese Fighter plane falling out of the sky and into the Sea!!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Chinese air farce? More like a Chinese fire drill…

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

smithinjapan

I hope they do. I don't think you honestly do, though. How would you vent?

How would I vent?! You really aren't very mature, are you Smith?

You are suggesting I would like a war to take place and have people die just so I can vent about something?! Think about what you so flippantly type. If you want me to take your posts seriously, you'll have to be better than that.

Commenting on current affairs is not venting. I don't need to vent. It's part of a broader discussion, which, as far as I am aware, is why we are here. Being critical of Chinese moves towards destabilising the region affects us all, so It's fair to comment and has nothing to do with some imaginary 'agenda' you think I have. A safe, prosperous, stable China benefits everyone - the opposite does not. That is my sole issue here.

I would also point out to you that it is rather ironic of you to question the objectivity of other people's posts, given the position you take on Japan on a regular basis.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

PnoyMafia7thFLT Nov. 30, 2013 - 11:16AM JST

Slay this dragon now, before your children and grandchildren will suffer from this Communist B.S.

Next generations from all sides are innocent. Pls spare them from your hatred. There will be never slaying of the dragon as you dreaming. It is very hard to wiping out largest ground troop on the earth without using nuke. General MacArthur discussed about using it. It has not become the reality. Even it has been used, there will be counter productive and neighboring nations will get the radio active ashes and radiation. Japan and Philippines are near by neighbors of PRC. Cancer rate in Philippines will be sky rocketed. Japanese will have to drink nuclear contaminated water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur

By the way, if you are really Pinoy and serving for 7th fleet, your own people are desperately needed your attention and help. Instead of war mongering, we have to help the relief effort of suffering victims of disaster.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

nigelboyNov. 30, 2013 - 09:47AM JST

To summarize the events thus far in a comical manner.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/hikaru2013/imgs/a/5/a5361b82-s.jpg

Thanks for the post above Funny.. It gave me a big belly laugh and I dropped my laptop on my poor dog that is sitting right next to me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well Xi is moving to clean up corruption and assert his power domestically, thats one important reason why increased tension with the US and Japan is necessary right now. The attention on Japan will make it harder for his adversaries to gather public support. Chinas air force is not of paper but this ADIZ fiasco is. When Xi, if he ever will be, is ready domestically, he will try to maximize the value with the ADIZ Hes playing a risky game, it could easily blow up in his face.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Flyfalcon have you checked the size and type ships of the PRC? How about the Peoples Air Force? In any confrontational I would want to send to provocation "This is the JS Sawayuki, you may draw when ready pardner"

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Read Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-advises-carriers-to-comply-with-china-air-zone/2013/11/29/b6bc83a6-596a-11e3-bdbf-097ab2a3dc2b_story.html?hpid=z3

US advises carriers to comply with China air zone

0 ( +0 / -0 )

China continues to operate in a Fantasy Zone. They can fly anywhere they want, and make any kind of comic opera claims and set up fantasy zones of 'defense' but it is still all make believe and true only in their own minds. It is the danger of a totalitarian Governemnt that surrounds leadership with Yes Men that they do not receive any reality checks from internal sources and ignore anything from outside of their bubble.

The islands are NOT a stolen car they are a legally and legitimatly purchased territory that has been added to Japan. Period. Any poster can also say whatever they want but it does not change the facts. The news media in the US is affected quite a bit by a very anxious China Lobby that is trying to fog the issue. We are treated to meaningless news bites about China that frankly none of us could care less about. ..and in an attempt to create the myth of the cuddly sweet friendly China..well look at the reality..they are sabre rattling and making threats and bullying all of their neighbores in the Pacific Rim and it has gotten worse with each month.

As for their sad attempts to try to create this fantasy zone, and to "patrol" it and "carry our duties" it is like kids making mud pies in a sand box, it has no reality to it at all. I suppose really there is no point to try to convince them to back down, they are too stubborn and too much in denial of realty to hear any thing that goes against their mythical story.

As for the usual postings some of them they reflect a similar attempt to appear rational and impartial but frankly there is no need for such, Japan is in the right and has been from the start, and what could have been just another aspect of normal international relations has been made into a anxious potential trap for China that it has actually created for itself..for if they do anything overt against Japan or US they will not be happy with the result and the world will turn against them when they really could use some friends ....we all hope the best for China along with all modern nations, but they are making it hard to feel that way with their very erratic, absurd and frankly quite fantastic attempts to claim territory that is part of other nations including Japan, South Korea, and the Philipines and Vietnam. I hope for them to wake up before they damage their image world wide, as they have already set their international respect and trust level quite a ways back already.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

If the current ADIZ is not scrapped then it would serve as an excuse for them to establish another one at South China Sea in the near future where the previous would set as an example which we are witnessing right now, identification and monitoring but no shots being fired thus making it look "nice" if you know what I mean.

The aircraft carrier sent for training in my opinion would meant for its future carriers alongside with stealth drones, fighters, missiles and such as once the next ADIZ is established, they would have more effective monitoring than right now and its hard power would feel much harder than before.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Probably, the long term benefit for China, if not forced to back down by international pressure, is to argue that they can fly and monitor, or create incidents for that matter, "legally" above the Senkaku islands. So far any kind of incidence in the airspace over the Senkakus would have been blamed entirely on the Chinese, simply because it is Japanese controlled territory. In that sense the ADIZ has to be regarded as a powerful push for the control of the East China sea. The US seems to understand this and I hope more do. The process here will determine the outcome for many neighbors. When Xi is ready, it will be hardball.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Chinese public to government: “Enforce the airzone! Show them we mean business!”

Government to Chinese public: “See? We sent planes to identify them. We showed them who’s boss. Mission accomplished!”

Chinese public to government: “Uh, do you know what ‘enforce’ means?”

China just backed themselves into a corner through idiocy. They may think they have a long-term plan to wear out Japan over the Senkaku islands, but the anti-Japanese sentiment within the Chinese public is too strong for that to actually pan out. They have no way to get out of this.

1: Play the long-term plan. Wrong. Chinese public is demanding they shoot something down and now that they have been riled they won’t accept the waiting game. 2: Shoot something down. Wrong. They can’t win a war, and they are clearly bluffing anyway. They can’t be the aggressor and then expect to get enough ally support to match the number of nations that would join up against them. The only country stupid enough to take their side when they are internationally seen as the aggressor is North Korea. A lot of good that will do them… 3: Back off and take down the air zone. Wrong. They’ve already humiliated themselves enough internationally. All they have now is the pride of their people. Backing off would cost them the only thing they have, and their people would be furious and take a heavy hit to the ego (which they need).

I am glad they did this really because #3 is what will actually happen. After all the bullying China does to its neighbors, they really deserve international humiliation and a hit to their pride.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

One false move and China is toast.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

WellSaidNov. 30, 2013 - 12:59PM JST

@Wulfe N. Straat You probaly can't afford an airline ticket at the moment and it will take you a few months to save for the cost. Just stay at home and wait for the social security check. You will be fine.

Not very smart post.

Some of them are getting high end social security checks as it is based on life long earning average, just in case you do not know. Many of them also are receiving retirement income from corporations and private investments. Probably he is getting paid more than you do.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China can play the long-term game all they want, but the US will never answer to them over international airspace. Maybe China will convince others to play, but the US will always be the exception that will make China look weak for not enforcing their own policy completely. And I hope we remind them of that on a daily basis.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

As I have said before Japan, along with America, should occupy those island to show whom actually owns them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Global hawk will be a big head ache for china. They can't be threatened, so what can China fighters do? Shoot them down?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This is my brief summary of this conflict. I believe a long term objective of PRC strategy is to destroy a core mutual trust of US/Japan Peace Treaty because it will be the quickest and easiest way to take over the Asian air/sea. Therefore, we need be always smarter and have to move in ten steps ahead of them.

Do you know that Japan was already tested in the past by two idiots; Hatoyama and Ozawa. They have sent over 300 Japanese junior politicians to Beijing promoting a concept of "One Asia". That was less than 3 years ago. It was a bad idea.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The man in photo looks like he is reading second article details, not headlines. Top article is about B 52. This Chinese papers are written in Chinese. I enlarged to see what he is reading. This Chinese newspapers is printed top to bottom. Each line is left to right .Each article continuation is continued to A2, etc. Must be published for USA educated Chinese people. The way it is printed, same style of USA published Chinese newspaper in SF, LA, LV etc

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Chinese government really has backed itself into a corner with their stupid aggressive rethoric and actions. The more they posture and provoce, the more difficult it is to backtrack without losing face. And losing face is something the Communist Party can afford. I really hope this stupid game played by the Chinese government does not end in a tragic escalation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

China is playing a dangerous game of chicken, it is seeking a war and soon it shall get what it wants.

WellSaidNov. 30, 2013 - 01:16PM JST At this particular junction, America welcomes a military conflicts between any countries in the Asia. The result is clear, arm sales going up, debt going down, and possibly a debt forfeiture. Anyway, it works to the interest of American people.

Arms are sold all the time, one doesn't need armed conflict to have a good year when it comes to arms sales.

China is one of the world largest arms sellers it is ranked number three, the US of course is number one and Russia is number 2. BTW Japan is no where on that list, it isn't even in the top 10 importers either.

Now, that you see that Japan isn't really a major player in the arms importing or exporting business, then what exactly is your point?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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