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China sends planes into air zone after Japan, S Korea defy rules

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By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN

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China's new ADIZ is a joke. As I've said they've bitten off more than they can chew. China should think real hard how they can back out of this without losing face...to their own people. And maybe fire the PLA hawks who pushed this implementation. China at this point is time has been UTTERLY HUMILIATED.

23 ( +33 / -9 )

No need to make a fuss about China's ADIZ: FM

http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-11/27/content_17136307.htm

PRC, No need to make a fuss about China's ADIZ?

Well this article listed below is conflicting to what's actually going on. It is very alarming they are sending two messages to the world with no shame. China is really showing a true color and we should not trust them. Their words means no deed..

BEIJING - Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said on Wednesday that there was no need for countries to panic over China's setup of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ).

Qin made the remarks at a daily news briefing when asked to comment on Japanese media reports that Japan is considering expanding its ADIZ in the Pacific Ocean after China announced the establishment of its zone on Saturday.

"I have yet to learn the official news [about Japan's expansion of ADIZ]," Qin said.

He stressed that China's setup of the ADIZ is a justified act of self-defence, not one aimed at any specific country or target. "Relevant countries need not make a fuss, panic or relate themselves to it," according to the spokesman.

Asked if China will consider to establish a similar zone in the South China Sea, the spokesman said China will set up other ADIZs in due time after completing relevant preparations.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Things aren't going to change in this world until we can learn to share our resources. Japan's 100billion dollar investment into renewable energy is big step in the right direction. On another note, we need to stop doing business with China

18 ( +24 / -6 )

“a defensive measure and in line with international common practices.”

Except when it is conducted in unrecognized airspace.

China is not going to back down and this circus will continue until the US, Korea and Japan will fed up.

Japan, Korea and the US cannot go to war with China. China won't declare war either. All parties have too much to loose.

Almost everything is made in China (try to boycott everything made in China) and China is a too big market to miss. Pulling out from China is impossible in short term and medium term.

It's a well calculated coup from China and there will be more to come in the future when everything will have calmed down.

There is nothing you and the government can do. If there is, tell me and I'll vote for you.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

I expect something to happen in that region very soon. China is just damn stupid and a fascist regime run by idiots. The only thing they will achieve is maybe even that Japan and South Korea will unite. Lol.

16 ( +22 / -6 )

So....Japan, South Korea, the US and China all regularly fly though "its" air zone with impunity...sounds like international airspace to me! As long as the Chinese don't try to challenge any of the planes flying through, they can call it whatever they like. Kinda like the way they call the sovereign nation Taiwan "theirs." Yeah, right...just so long as you don't try cashing in those chips "you" own, there, bully-boy...

13 ( +17 / -4 )

every country has an ADIZ. there is no issue there. the issue is that china's new ADIZ overlaps with japan's over the senkaku's. but while japan administers the senkaku's/diaoyu's, it does not own them outright as acknowledged by china and japan's last treaty over them. that means until ownership is resolved, china has a right to include the senkaku/diaoyu's in their ADIZ. these are the facts and they cannot be disputed.

-17 ( +6 / -23 )

ADIZ Made in China. Every one knows the quality..

16 ( +20 / -4 )

Their seat on the UN security council should be given to Japan.

And Taiwan should be given full recognition.

These are just starters. In the meantime, keep on flying regardless.

13 ( +21 / -8 )

@AlexNoaburg Well said and true. All the other viewpoints are simply prejudices against China without foundation. As far as immature people are concerned who claim we should stop business with China, it is absolutely ridiculous. Practically everything we own in JP is made in China, if it weren't you would pay 10 times the price & given the salaries in JP, people would be very poor! On the other hand, some of the largest companies are based in China & would have long ago bankrupted if it weren't for China opening its doors to the west & being lenient concerning business.

-15 ( +6 / -21 )

I would consider China's ADIZ into two stages, beta and final implementation.

The current stage is pretty much gaining feedback from time to time and tuning itself to such response until they satisfied but their main objective as mentioned in the article would be the changes of status quo.

The ADIZ is merely a part of its A2/AD strategies and expect more of such things to come as once its military grown stronger we might see ADIZ at South China Sea as well.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So China just makes up this no fly zone then puts it up there? God the Chinese are annoying. I wish countries like this got wiped of the face of the earth.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What a pathetic excuse for a country. China if you're no with us, you're against us. Our goal in life is to live in peace and to advance the world as a team. China's goal is to own the world basically...using ancient tactics which won't work.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Although China may not be doing anything to stop the U.S., Korea, and Japan flying in this newly claimed air defense zone, China is sending its own planes into the area without identifying them to Japan either. Not that they haven't been doing that until now anyway.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

ReformedBasherNov. 29, 2013 - 07:55AM JST

Their seat on the UN security council should be given to Japan.

And Taiwan should be given full recognition.

These are just starters. In the meantime, keep on flying regardless.

When things get tougher, all allied nations get together and remove China from UN Security Council. Yes, we should recognize Taiwan as Independent sovereign nation.. Do you know if Taiwan is included to the Sochi Winter Olympics? I hope so.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

maxjapankNov. 29, 2013 - 08:21AM JST Although China may not be doing anything to stop the U.S., Korea, and Japan flying in this newly claimed air defense >zone, China is sending its own planes into the area without identifying them to Japan either. Not that they haven't >been doing that until now anyway.

Japan does not have the requirement that all planes identify themselves as China has demanded. The U.S. does not either.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Rather than a territorial dispute between Japan and China, it's beginning to manifest the essence of a power game of the United States and China over the East China Sea and the Taiwan Strait.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It seems that most of countries don't agree about the new ADIZ, because it is understandable if we look at what is really happening over South China Sea. Cummunist China and military is trying to expand its territory as much as it can to get rich natural resources under water. For country that thinks military is a good job, there is by no means freedom there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Force any comm.china planes down and detain the crew, tat for EP-3 incident. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

4 ( +4 / -0 )

But the most immediate spark for the zone likely was Japan’s threat last month to shoot down drones that China says it will send to the islands for mapping expeditions

It is very embrassing for Japan. Abe said he will shoot down any PRC plane flied over Senkaku just a few weeks ago. Japan is the adminstrator at the moment however PRC planes are flying like birds which have no concern about his threat. Reality is Abe will never shoot down on his watch.

But when tested just days later by U.S. B-52 flights — with Washington saying it made no effort to comply with China’s rules, and would not do so in the future

US has never made effort to comply with China rules since it was founded in 1776. Founding fathers of USA do not like complying any rules of foreign nations including Mexico.

PRC has never complied US rules too. The very first one was strated in 1950 Yalu river crossing without US consent. During Hainai incident of 2001, US air crew was detained for a long time and US plane has beccome the observation laboratory for PRC despite protest from Senator John Mccaine. Next year in 2014, congress will struggle to raise the debt ceilling for paying the wages of Marines, Navy, Army and Air Force. If there is no funding, they have no choice for complying their beloved nation know as People Repulic.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

China has sent warplanes into the zone so for those people who are taking flights that go through that area should make sure that the Airline will register the flight plans, just a precaution. So, you should avoid those Airlines that do not comply, better be safe than sorry. You can call it China’s buff but you wouldn’t be able to sleep well during the flight. Those commercial airlines who do not comply may see their planes fly with empty seats or perhaps with big discounts. Japan or the US should help the Airlines by sending their fighter jets to accompany the planes, they may call it a challenge against China or whatever they want. You see China has won the right to fly in and out whenever they want and also the right to administer the islands. Oh, now China is being humiliated indeed.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

flowersNov. 29, 2013 - 08:53AM JST

You see China has won the right to fly in and out whenever they want and also the right to administer the islands. Oh, >now China is being humiliated indeed.

Commercial airlines are not the relevant issue. The issue is that now the United States, Japan and South Korea have flown military aircraft inside China's new ADIZ without identification and they have not been challenged. Humiliation indeed.

ZenpunNov. 29, 2013 - 08:43AM JST It is very embrassing for Japan. Abe said he will shoot down any PRC plane flied over Senkaku just a few weeks ago. >Japan is the adminstrator at the moment however PRC planes are flying like birds which have no concern about his >threat. Reality is Abe will never shoot down on his watch.

Japan has stated that they would shoot down unmanned drones that do not comply with Japan's security requests. In other words, leave the area. That is a far cry from what you are describing.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

More stupid tit-for-tat brinkmanship.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Since the Chinese government insist on entering foreign waters/airspace with the intention to harass, and possibly spy, I think they should not complain if other countries insist on cruising/flying just off their coastline. China should be put on the defensive and not be allowed to constantly scheme and bully other nations.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

CrazyJoeNov. 29, 2013 - 08:33AM JST

Rather than a territorial dispute between Japan and China, it's beginning to manifest the essence of a power game of the United States and China over the East China Sea and the Taiwan Strait.

Have just noticed? The subtle conflict between US and China has been going on since 1950 Korean War. Do you know why the Vietnam War ended the way it was? Actually US was fighting against China indirectly. The world has been successfully contained China (1.3 billion population) while they are slowly taking over the world. They are not an angel as they claim. Everything has been well calculated since 1950. The Chinese military expansion is a part of economic stimulus plan and we should be well alarmed.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

It seems that the 1.5 billion Chinese continue to demand more and more lebensraum. Where will it end? Wake Island? Midway? Hawaii?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I wish I had a plane. I wanna fly along with the party.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

OssanAmerica, you still don’t see the point I am making. Before when Japan saw Chinese plane flying into the area, the response would be sending fighter jets there. But what happens now, any fighter jets? Commercial airlines have to adhere to strict safety procedures, and especially in this case if they are not being forced to, they have to comply. Now who has a step forward, and who took two steps back? Humiliated for sure.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Japan and US must act with caution and intelligence. They have to understand that it is a political matter.

China is being very smart. You don't see the chinese doing anything that could initiate a war. It is just bluffing all the time, keeping its society concentrated on something and deviating world attention from more important matters like polution and inappropriate work conditions from inside.

It is using the well know chinese old "Art of War" techniques to bull its neighbours. Techniques which the Western know very well, that is taught in economy and military classes in the Western.

Japan is lucky to have US in its back. The americans have lots of experience when it comes to war, and everyone have to remember the United States won the Cold War against Soviet Union. This is the kind of war I expect is happening right now. Its a Cold War from 21st century.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The choice of words in this article is interesting. The U.S. sends B52s. Other countries send aircraft. China send warplanes.

The B52 is a warplane. Japan frequently sends warplanes, although they may call them defenceplanes so that they can pretend they are acceptable under the constitution. Why is it only the Chinese planes that are described as weaponds of war? It is evident that all three countries, China, Japan and America, are flying waplanes in the disputed area.

Each act of deliberate provocation increases tension and begs a reaction.

Who benefits from all of this? Not the Chinese people, not the Japanese people, not even the American people. I suppose the defence industries of the countries benefit by selling warplanes and ships. It makes one wonder for who benefit governments are working.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

More stupid tit-for-tat brinkmanship.

More standing up for what is right.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Is China trying to start World War 3 over those rocks?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

FernandoUchiyamaNov. 29, 2013 - 09:22AM JST

It is just bluffing all the time

I believe China is testing USA. Furthermore, they are actually testing Obama how far they can go.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

ZenpunNOV. 29, 2013 - 08:43AM JST "Abe said he will shoot down any PRC plane flied over Senkaku just a few weeks ago"

No, Abe-san didn't that. He approved a plan to shoot down unmanned foreign drones, which is completely different to what you're saying.

If you have a spare 10 minutes, have a read of the following article. Comical. http://midnightexpress2046.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/the-six-wars-to-be-fought-by-china-in-the-coming-50-years/

3 ( +4 / -1 )

i Unfortunately for you my dear Zenpun military campaign's have moved on from being reliant on millions of ground forces to overwhelm an enemy. With the US military, it is not what you can see and read about that you be worried about, it's what you can't see that should be making your bowls loose. The US on reveals military technology once it has been replaced by something which is still secret and can't yet be copied or reverse engineered. If the US is ever threatened by China I can guarantee it and the rest of the world will swiftly turn on China. We have already learned the stupidity of allowing undemocratic dictator type regimes to get steadily out of control before being stamped on hard. China is long overdue.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It is counting on the modern idea that War is immature to keep them from getting slapped like they deserve.

This morning, the local media in HK suggests China will fly Su-30s and AEW to patrol their new ADIZ. We shall see.

@Fernando The West won against the USSR because they were willing to sacrifice economic trade to enforce their containment. They are not willing to go as far for China.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

i love how the US just "happened" to be planning a b-52 training run a few days after china's announcement of the new ADIZ. this has got to be a huge embarrassment to the leaders in china.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiNOV. 29, 2013 - 09:38AM JST "The West won against the USSR because they were willing to sacrifice economic trade to enforce their containment. They are not willing to go as far for China."

That's a really good point. I didn't understand why we couldn't just pull business out of China until I watched the "death by China" documentary.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

PRC really wants a war and they will have the honor of the first shot. SU 30 export model, American, Japanese and Korean pilots will run up a score. PRC has managed to make Japan and Korea allies.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

BlingBlingNicky Nov. 29, 2013 - 09:29AM JST

No, Abe-san didn't that

He approved for shooting rights of ground or navy force foregin planes. No one will shoot down without his command. Abe is the commander of Chief of Japan for making operational decision. What is the difference between approving for shooting down and shooting down by himself?

The interview comes days after Mr Abe was reported to approved defence plans to intercept and shoot down foreign unmanned aircraft that ignore warnings to leave Japanese airspace

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24684683

Newspaper reports that Japan is considering asserting its right to shoot down unmanned drones that come into its airspace have added to the tensions. An unidentified drone was spotted outside Japanese airspace close to the disputed islands on September 9. http://www.smh.com.au/world/abe-warns-china-on-islands-as-japan-scrambles-jets-20131028-2wc83.html#ixzz2lzWbM8Q4

http://www.smh.com.au/world/abe-warns-china-on-islands-as-japan-scrambles-jets-20131028-2wc83.html

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It is only a question of time before some sort of North Pacific Treaty Alliance with Japan, the US, the Philippines, possibly Korea once they take their chill pill, Indonesia, Malaysia and even India and Vietnam is signed. Historical enemies will make peace, see the necessity of it all and the US, pulling out of the Middle- East now that they are not so energy depended on it, will broker it.

Chinese commenters (and the CCP sponsored trolls polluting the web) would want us to believe they have the smartest leaders, they do not. The least embarrassing explanation for their miscalculation would be that the power in Beijing is fragmented and elusive.

The truth is that the CCP leaders, like some of their rowdy countrymen shopping in a Prada shop, think anything is ups for grabs, it is not.

China's image is rapidly deteriorating (if it was ever good in spite of billions spend to promote China's soft power) everywhere in Asia and its rise will only be met with angst and concern.

The front may appear disorganized and cracked but it is only a question of time before some sort of unity emerges, this is the only historical lesson the passed wars in Europe can teach us.

The best China can hope is another statu-quo but the expansion of "beautiful China" will never happen the way CCP leaders wet-dream of it

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Dukeleto Nov. 29, 2013 - 09:34AM JST

With the US military, it is not what you can see and read about that you be worried about, it's what you can't see that should be making your bowls loose.

I am not a fan of China either. However there is logical about Zenpun San post. If there is no fuel in the tank, how can aircraft carrier sail in the sea? How can fighter jets fly on the sky? Will Marines and Navy Pilots will go to front line with the empty pockets? How about the meals for long voyage? Will any nation supply free lunches for seven fleet? More likely meals will come from Hanian Island of PRC southern Island which is the logical hub of South China Sea.

Every operation needs funding. Congress approved debt ceiling limit will have to raise again in early next year! Probably in February. During Irag war, the cost of operation was more than 1 billion for a week. Uncomfotable truth was Irag war funding was come from beloved nation called as People Repulic too. PRC is the Oxygen for the US military machine for breathing.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

YuriOtaniNov. 29, 2013 - 09:52AM JST

PRC really wants a war and they will have the honor of the first shot. SU 30 export model, American, Japanese and Korean pilots will run up a score. PRC has managed to make Japan and Korea allies.

No, China is calculating US and Japan will make a first mistake. They would like to be seen as a victim and an angel in world stage. So it is our job to stay calm trying not get sucked in while we are negotiating.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

“With regard to activity within the zone, nothing will happen — for a while,” said June Teufel Dreyer, a China expert at the University of Miami. “Then the zone will become gradually enforced more strictly. The Japanese will continue to protest, but not much more, to challenge it.”

this is undoubtedly the goal and what i worry about. japan should just "test" a nuclear device and establish a base on the senkakus and be done with it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

No, China is calculating US and Japan will make a first mistake. They would like to be seen as a victim and an angel in world stage. So it is our job to stay calm trying not get sucked in while we are negotiating.

I need to add this is not MY saying. This is what US military strategists are saying today. FYI.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

globalwatcher PRC does not have the ability to take on Japan. Add Republic of Korea and the United States and the rest will be history. Oh staying "calm" does not mean giving in to thugs. The PRC will fire first and claim otherwise. I am sure if we all stick tougher we can win.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

China build big army and they like to use it for something but they don't know how to use it responsibly so they started to creating some "air zones" that no country is willing to recognize.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Who knows what China is planning, I guess it is some ancient Chinese wisdom.

The important thing now for Japan and the US is to not back down an inch from their current stance, as the only logical goal of this move by China is a very long term eroding of resolve by Japan and the US.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

China’s air force sent several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft on normal air patrols in the zone, the Xinhua agency reported, citing air force spokesman Shen Jinke.

The report did not specify exactly when the flights were sent or whether they had encountered foreign aircraft.

What happened?, Everyone was at the party and common sense kicked in. I'm glad they all saw the enuresia in the room and decided to calm down.

Perhaps now we can work this out in a better setting. Peace on the seven seas.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

YuriOtaniNov. 29, 2013 - 10:26AM JST

globalwatcher PRC does not have the ability to take on Japan. Add Republic of Korea and the United States and the rest will be history. Oh staying "calm" does not mean giving in to thugs. The PRC will fire first and claim otherwise. I am sure if we all stick tougher we can win.

I would not be so sure about it. I know how Truman reluctantly gave up the Korean Penn. How US had to pull troops from Vietnam. I would not be too optimistic as you are. Remember China has the largest ground troops and they can send them all to Japan like flies.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nathan

The worlds economy is based on the US dollar. If the world goes to war with China where will they get the money from to fund their military...foreign trade and investment as they currently do. Wishful thinking. China unfortunately is like a giant cup cake with tooth picks for foundations. China will implode quicker than it exploded. When that happens and there are masses of poor starving Chinese civilians, what will the dear communist party leaders do then...start another internal purge and kill millions of their own people again so they can keep their lavish lifestyles and power. The Chinese people need to wake up but I fear their leadership will have led them down the garden path to destruction long before they have a chance to rise up and be done with its evil tyranny. More Chinese people have died and suffered under their own leadership than all the invading forces in history. How sad is that, but I bet the majority of Chinese have no comprehension of this fact and that's what allows such regimes to keep control. China could be a great nation in time if it was run by the Chinese people themselves.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I did some study of so called ADIZ and found it’s really waste of time to discuss it because it’s not a real issue! For example that actually the US never recognize any ADIS claimed by any country all over the world, however the US also never strictly request any other country to recognize its ADIZ and only asking for mutual communication for purpose of safety. I definitely agree with some posters here to recognize Taiwan(ROC), anyway it’s only lip service again and in fact the US and Japan still owe Taiwan apology for betraying Taiwan to set up relationship with CN for whatever political reasons in 70’s.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The article said, "Tokyo's privatization of the islands last year". It should be "nationalization".

and about the part, "it reverses the decision to nationalize the islands", they are already nationalized.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

uriOtaniNov. 29, 2013 - 10:26AM JST

The PRC will fire first and claim otherwise. I am sure if we all stick tougher we can win

'We' in the land where all else is the less human 'other'.

You're a classic. For years all you've done on this site is criticize the US military on Okinawa and now that you need them to die for a couple of rocks and a few hundred goats, they're part of of the 'we': situationalism at the extreme.

@ OssanAmerica

China's new ADIZ may be a joke from there in northern Nebraska, but it sure ain't from here in Tokyo.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

This is not news at all. China has rights to fly in this area, and SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE. It's only news that communist Chinese militarist thugs attempt to impede others flying in international air space. That is correctly seen as war mongering, and the USA and the rest of the free world will resist with force. Communist China had it nose rubbed in its own excrement, like a puppy. We all laugh at the brown stain on its nose, and the communist Chinese militarists can smell the aroma of their own dung.

Pathetic face saving bluster that communist China will keep ratcheting up will be met with ratcheting resistance by the free world, including FREE CHINESE.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan and China in the 70s both agreed to solve the ownership problem of the islands in the future, so when Japan nationalized the islands after ishihara, well intentioned or not, was illegal and a forceful territory grab.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Wrong "alex" - Japan purchased the islands to maintain the status quo, and to keep its own idiot nationalist from meddling. Everyone knows Japan's intentions were pure, but communists Chinese used that as an excuse to begin forcing the issue.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Fellow JT Readers,

Lets do something to hurt the PRC communist in their wallets, by Boycotting everything made in China

Say NO to Made in China products!!

so you children and grandchildren don't have to deal with those COMMUNIST BULLIES !!!!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

China stupid China!

At this rate your going to be left all on your own, heck even Russia & NKorea might ditch you!

Note to China, if you want to have a hope of prospering in this world you MUST learn to get along with other countries NOT create conflict, is that really so hard to understand??

Or are you so frightened of your own people now that you have to "create" all this tension outside China to keep your own people from making internal changes????

Like I have said many a times China is a fire cracker, the fuse has been lit!! Only question is will China explode, implode or BOTH.

Either way the rest of the world is in for some nastiness wrt China however this goes down

3 ( +5 / -2 )

thywillbedoneNov. 29, 2013 - 10:58AM JST

Pathetic face saving bluster that communist China will keep ratcheting up will be met with ratcheting resistance by the free world, including FREE CHINESE.

For the CCP, Chinese peasants are slaves and no hope. Most CCP party members are very rich and corrupt. Many of their sons and daughters are studying abroad.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Interesting to read an article in the Australian news (http://www.news.com.au/world/the-territorial-flashpoints-making-south-east-asia-a-hotbed-of-international-tensions/story-fndir2ev-1226771012656) which shows this through the eyes of a country not as biased as Japanese, Chinese or US media (not as biased - there is no real unbiased news). It really goes to show that the whole world is seeing Chinese' actions as a problem; They are the aggressors, they will go down in history as the ones who started this impending war.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

If anyone thinks that China's political leaders are trying to feed messages to its people, they are very wrong. The improvement to the Chinese standard of living over the past 20 years has meant that their people (a majority) support to government. Unlike in the West where voters are mainly uneducated mid west people who had suffered from their media brain washing. The internal problem in China are very similar to those in any other country.

So what does this mean for Japan? We need to focus on Asia and not rely on US, after all the US was bailed out by China after the financial crisis. If not for China the US will not have their standard of living, this is not bought by capitalism or democrazy but but Chinese dollars. So for Japan, we need to make some of those Chinese dollars and forget about the hard line that makes us all suffer.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

It really goes to show that the whole world is seeing Chinese' actions as a problem; They are the aggressors, they will go down in history as the ones who started this impending war.

Certainly hope so, but they have been very savvy with silver tongues manipulating and distorting facts until last Saturday.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So it looks like Abe has successfully galvanized support through prospect of war, but I'm sure the people here are too smart to fall for that

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tiger - funniest thing I have read all morning. Thank you. You cannot even access wikipedia in China, nor, the following: New York Times, Facebook, Youtube. Haha, so, "China political leaders are not trying to feed messages to it's people" as you said? haha - I so funny!!

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@yuriotani

To the American guest there is a saying that guests and fish begin to smell after 3 days. You have been here 68 years, time to go home.

isnt this what you were saying last month about the american military presence in japan? change of heart when you saw reality?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"China sends planes into air zone." China sends what it's passing off as planes more like. Their air force does not match up to the standards of the USAF or the JASDF. Not that it makes any difference really. They're just embarassing themselves more and more every day. Not only has the US flown B52s through without incident, but South Korea and Japan have also flown within China's ADIZ without even a whisper from the big red dog. It's bark has become a whimper already. They declared that all flights would be required to state intentions, state nationality, provide a flight path and maintain a two way communication. So far, none of that has happened, except perhaps with Japanese commercial flights, and that doesn't count. What counts is that military aircraft of other nations have flown through China's brand new ADIZ and haven't heard a peep from the Chinese. That is utterly humiliating for China, and hilarious for the rest of us, which only adds to China's humiliation as they become a laughing stock and lose any and all remaining face. How can China expect to be taken seriously in military issues after this immediate blunder? Short of actual military assaults, China's threats will only provide amusement from now on. In the meantime, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, USA and the Phillipines will ignore the rules of the Chinese ADIZ and carry on with business as usual.

Also, I saw someone saying that Japan threatened to shoot down warplanes in its own ADIZ. Wrong. The statement was that Japan would shoot down Drones heading towards Japan presumably on a strike vector and refusing orders to turn back. That's a very different kettle of fish. The former would be a military cock up, the latter would be a justifiable act of self defence against an undeniable act of war. The latter is what was stated.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

globalwatcher PRC has a small second class Air force and Navy. Export models from Russia or home made copies. Their troops will be useless as they can not swim. They have no air tankers and anytime over the target will be limited.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

YuriOtaniNov. 29, 2013 - 11:48AM JST

globalwatcher PRC has a small second class Air force and Navy. Export models from Russia or home made copiIes. Their troops will be useless as they can not swim. They have no air tankers and anytime over the target will be limited.

Yuri, apparently this is not a war game. It does not work the way you think. By the way, did you say this?

To the American guest there is a saying that guests and fish begin to smell after 3 days. You have been here 68 years, time to go home.

Do you feel the same way today for US Marines stationed in Okinawa?.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

80393Nov. 29, 2013 - 11:43AM JST @yuriotani

To the American guest there is a saying that guests and fish begin to smell after 3 days. You have been here 68 years, time to go home.

isnt this what you were saying last month about the american military presence in japan? change of heart when you saw reality?

YuriOtani, could you please reply to the above because you and millions of Japanese have been saying it for years. Now everything is Ok because you want the Americans to die for you.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

China's trying to bully everyone, not going to look good

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Dog

The Russian Tsar Alexander III said once, that Russia has only two allies - its army and its navy. I'm sure the same applies to the U.S. and any large country. All the weaker nations need us to die for them in a time of crisis, and forget all the good things that are done, only remembering injuries.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Dukeleto NOV. 29, 2013 - 10:38AM JST

The worlds economy is based on the US dollar. If the world goes to war with China where will they get the money from to fund their military...foreign trade and investment as they currently do

This comment is out of touch with the reality. Military funding is not raising the capital for company from stock market. Investors bought the shares and bonds for parking their money and getting some profits. Waging the war is unprofitable business. If someone want to invest their life saving in the funding for war, he or she risked and wasted money. No hope for return. Except WWII, US has never made the decent return of investment from wars.

For Geo-Political reason, US waged the Irag and Afgan wars. That two wars have raised the mountain of debt. You may be the first person to invest for war which have no hopes for getting any return.

Even Senkaku may be rich in minerals and natural gas, it will take ages for exploration and getting decent commercial return. Unlike autocratic PRC, US President can not spend huge money or raise funding whatever he or she likes. US political system is balancing high court, President and Congress for passing the national spending or borrowing more for debt.

When I review Zenpun post, it is so true for US can make immediate action for raising fund due to the political system, lack of saving and weak economy. US dollars can easily become worthless papers, it there is massive selling with loss in the market. PRC is holding US treasuries more than 1.2 trillions. Of course they will lose their money for selling. However US inflation will be sky rocketed and borrowing cost be increased too. US will feel more pain rather than PRC with the economic war. It is not the national interest for US for making herself broke and hungry.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Japan Needs to make extreme closer ties with India in order to counter China as china itself is similar threat to india and japan as well.Also US is always with japan.Japan now should attempt to take Russia in its kitty in order to stop fascist china forever.Finaly one china can be stopped only when it will be devided in smaller independent nations.It should be the aim of all US and japan allies.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Let's see what the next step is. I hope the US and Japan aren't thinking the next step would be to ignore and stay restraint. Currently, in the eye of the world it seems that whoever has the upper hand has the right for claiming the islands. This of course is nonsense since China isn't the legitimate owner and will neither be so just by trying to annex the islands. It's time for Japan and the US (and perhaps Korea) to fly a couple more rounds in the ADIZ.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's time for Japan and the US (and perhaps Korea) to fly a couple more rounds in the ADIZ.

We will wait and see what Uncle Joe will say to China next week. Hopefully China will give up. If not, we MAY.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The central issue here is not the "funding" but the ability to acquire resources which by blocking the first island chain, China has no means to do so. One could of course review the previous war which China acquired resources from "Chiang Kai Shek route" but by pi$$ing off so many SE Asian nations along with India, I doubt they'd be willing to give China any assistance. Russia could conceivable help China but they'd rather take advantage when China is weak (a la Soviet invasion of Japan after the surrender).

3 ( +9 / -5 )

Too late, the USA already blew a nice PR hole up in the faces of the Chinese leadership with their B-52s.

China is going to have to back down over their lebensraum and China never backs down, so prepare for a plane to be shot down. That's the only logical outcome of this, and when that happens it could risk further escalation.

What a waste

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Their seat on the UN security council should be given to Japan. And Taiwan should be given full recognition.

That will happen about the same time hell freezes over.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It'll be interesting to see the next facing saving maneuver taken on by the PLA, when a couple more unarmed US warplanes happen to just pass through the restricted zone.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Here's what I think will happen. It is easy to see this as a Chinese loss, and tactically it is, but nevertheless, there wasn't an ADIZ a week ago and now there is.

First, remember that the ADIZ is an identification zone, and even the original message, which said something about "emergency defensive measures" or some such, allows plenty of flex room. China can indeed choose to monitor, or even not monitor and keep the zone.

Today, they are backing off, tacking those unresponded B-52 flights and those "impudent" commercial flights as signs of their forbearance. Say, one year later, they start responding to some of the flights. As long as they don't actually ATTACK the planes, they will still be within international law. The world screams, they back off a little, they try again the next year. Each year, the line saps forward a little bit as the world gets slowly used to the new average.

Short of the world actually taking decisive measures rather than mere shows of force, China saps forward in precisely such a fashion. We need to learn to think long-term.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Does everyone know that Japan actually scrambled fighter jets on November 23, right after China announced their unilateral ADIZ?

http://www.mod.go.jp/js/Press/press2013/press_pdf/p20131123_02.pdf

It was against a TU-154 and a Y-8 China military aircraft.

So Japan reacted first, even before the follow-up B52's from the USA.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

globalwatcher times change my friend and my friends and family on Okinawa are pissed at the PRC. What they did was an regressive move against Japan including Okinawa. It was an aggressive move against all nations in the western Pacific. As for Marines most of them are nice guys and girls. It is the small percentage that gives Marines a bad rep. Same in America, Okies are ice people for the most part. Again the vast majority are OK.

Times change and perhaps soon they will claim some of the Okinawa islands and make a zone over them as well.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

So China entered Japan's airspace? China needs to GTFU

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@yuriotani

Okies are ice people for the most part

it doesnt sound like you have any idea what youre talking about anyway, but please dont use "okie" as it is pejorative. unless this is a new term for people from okinawa of which im unaware.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

globalwatcher

You're comment is to make it seem as if China means no harm. You're reading from not only a Chinese news website which is of course state ran - but also on it's English version which is made to downplay everything and make it seem as if China loves the west and just wants peace, rainbows, and love. They do that because they know millions of people search for Chinese news from western search engines like Google then come upon these articles to make it seem like the west are liars in their reports.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"unless this is a new term for people from Okinawa..."

TOUCHE!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

DogNov. 29, 2013 - 10:57AM JST

@ OssanAmerica China's new ADIZ may be a joke from there in northern Nebraska, but it sure ain't from here in Tokyo.

The US B-52s proved it s a joke. Both South Korea and Japan have flown 2 P3s in the zone without challenge. Northern Nebraska? I'm 30 minutes from Yokosuka right this moment.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

americalovejapanNov. 29, 2013 - 04:23PM JST

globalwatcher

You're comment is to make it seem as if China means no harm. You're reading from not only a Chinese news website which is of course state ran - but also on it's English version which is made to downplay everything and make it seem as if China loves the west and just wants peace, rainbows, and love. They do that because they know millions of people search for Chinese news from western search engines like Google then come upon these articles to make it seem like the west are liars in their reports.

Your name is misleading and I have a trouble understanding you.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

As for Marines most of them are nice guys and girls.

you have referred to them as rotten fish and sodai gomi among other things. You have been spreading your bile on here for years. You are a hypocrite and an aggressive war mongerer. Happy for the sodai gomi to spill their blood in a war you can't wait for.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

China isn't powerful or mighty. It's a polluted, corrupt, Communist dictatorship. We need to take out the Chinese Communist Party before they actually become a threat.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I see a wide range of attempts by Pro China posters to bluster their way and to protect China's fantasy attempt to claim territory just because they want to assert power. there are much better ways to gain power and respect. much better.

in this case. the use of basically show flights, to try to make an impression is just a waste of fuel. No one else other than China attaches any importance to the PRC making hollywood flights in the region. They can fly around all the want and it wont change the status quo one iota. Japan owns the Senkakus and will for a long time i am believing. The US, South Korea, the Philippines, and many other Pacific nations will support Japan and oppose China as actively as is necessary, China is only digging its own hole deeper and they may find themselves voted off of the UN SEcurity council if they continue to go on acting in this wild and erratic manner. They are showing themselves quite untrustworthy. Glad Japan Today is covering this so well, you are in fact covering it as well as any media outlet and i see your articles being quoted and posted on Google News and elsewhere. good work keep it up.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I just want to tell everyone that more and more US media are now paying attention to this situation very closely. Keep up your good quality posts for global audience. We can make a difference.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Times change pochan and we have to change with them. Kadena AFB will be the big player. The Marines will be second string. The US Navy will be a key player and all three will get sdf support. The PRC is about to start a war. I believe there will be a war and soon.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I think the headline of this article needs to be corrected a bit, the "rules" set by China do not apply to any one at all, by any stretch of international law. They are a fantasy creation of Chinese illusions. So it is not defying to carry on normal flight activities in International Air Space. That is a mistake some media are making by not realizing that international law is quite clear about freedom of movement in international zones that are free of any soverieghenty of any nation..such as this area of the Pacific in question, other than the region that Japan controls due to its ownership and annexation of the Senkaku Islands. China has no right to project an kind of zone or control into international waters or air space by fiat, and therefore there cannot be any "defying" of any rules because there IS no rule against free movement of other flag carriers of any kind. End of story.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

CBJ Spender:

" Let's see what the next step is. "

Alas, it looks like the next step is that Obama will cave and accept Chinas land grab, following the recent capitulation to Iran. I hope Japan has the balls to stand up to them.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Biden's visit is not good as expected. China doesnot want to talk about ADIZ. China is so fox-like, cunning . the US must be clear and determined about this.we don't want war but we should be ready for it because someone (china) around us is considering us nothing. I am very upset with England, france, italy.....why do they keep silent on this. They clearly see china doing wrong but they still ignore . are they human and sympathetic? the world must support japan.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

All Japan has to do is restate their current air zone and echo China's statement. "Please inform if you fly over"

Problem solved. If it were as easy as saying your pipe dream and having others obey everyone would go about things in such a way.

Ridiculous.

Even more absurd is that Australia other countries comply. They are tools.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I stand with our Japanese allies. How about you?

http://kevinwhiteman.com/china-threatens-japan-will-enforce-control-of-disputed-airspace/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh China. When will you learn?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I believe a naval task force made up of ships from Japan, South Korea and America with air cover should be sent to practice manuvers around the islands.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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