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Chinese military officials admit ship radar lock on Japanese detroyer

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But Kyodo News cited unnamed “senior Chinese military officials” saying the weapons targeting had taken place.

masked man's voice (!)

0 ( +4 / -4 )

We know it happened! China is the aggressor in this situation and the world sees it as that! Same with China's actions against the Philippines and trying to claim up to their shores!

10 ( +17 / -8 )

It's obvious that the head doesn't know what the rest of the body is doing and I find it interesting that a Chinese commander in the field felt safe enough in making a decision like that without higher command authority.

There is no state of war between Japan and China and I find it hard to believe that ANY captain of ANY ship of any nation at peace with each other would provoke another without higher authority.

Sounds like the Chinese got their hands caught in the cookie jar and made the captain the scapegoat in the matter.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

"The officials, including “flag officers”—those at the rank of admiral—told Kyodo it was an “emergency decision”, not a planned action, and was taken by the commander of the frigate, the report said."

Ever heard of Too Close For Comfort? This is exactly what the Chinese officer did and Japan is responsible for this incident! No time to contact headquarter! Any navy guy will take emergency action when the enemy ship is under 10 sec missile range away! Plus this incident is not far from Japanese shores with HUNDREDS of land , sea, air anti ship missiles lining the coastlines in the disputed islands areas, meaning Japan is trying to INTIMIDATE a few Chinese navy ships passing through the area for naval exercises. Japan should fess up and tell the world she is the real aggressor that FRAME the Chinese ship to take a desparate WARNING fire control radar action. Modern anti ship missiles can reach over 200 km easily and even travel at supersonic speed, so you see there is very very little time for the Chinese ship to take evasive action, hence the radar lock incident.

"The Chinese officials said that on Jan 30 the frigate and the Japanese destroyer were three kilometers apart in international waters some 110 to 130 kilometers north of the outcrops, the report said."

-34 ( +4 / -38 )

refrain from disclosing its data proving the radar lock

China: Please don't prove out lies wrong.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Ha Ha! The Commies Got cought LYING AGAIN! Go ahead Tokyo, disclose the Data and Rub Salt into their Faces!!! Also, make that Commander personally come to Tokyo himself, bow down, and Apologize to the Japanese People. Otherwise - Disclose the Data :)

0 ( +10 / -11 )

Saketown: "Ha Ha! The Commies Got cought LYING AGAIN!"

Okay, cool down MacCarthy! First, they did not 'get caught', they admitted the truth. When Japan was unwilling to release the proof they claimed they had, there was room for doubt. Now there is not. Still a big difference between 'being caught'.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

@Saketown @tyvtgo1US @Yubaru

Reality check; not enough time to contact headquarter, What will you do? Get fired on and die?

Do you have any comment on my comment? Sure you can see Japan is the real aggressor. I had unmasked Japan for all to see!

-26 ( +5 / -31 )

Senior Chinese military officials have admitted for the first time that a frigate locked its radar on a Japanese destroyer during the two nations’ spat over disputed islands.

but

But Kyodo News cited unnamed “senior Chinese military officials” saying the weapons targeting had taken place.

Until it's announced by a real person= someone named, this isn't an admittance. It could have been the Chinese Jerky Boys for all we know. Did he also ask them to "get Brett Weir!!"?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Two ways to interpret this:

1) The PRC Government is working in concert with the PLA in admitting that they did indeed activate their fire-control against the JMSDF vessels without actually admitting it because after all it's not an official statement of admission from the PRC Government. The PLA is being used as a scapegoat to a degree and the government comes away having unofficially admitted the incident without having officially done so. -Or- 2) The PLA is becoming more autonomous as many China watchers fear and they have unilaterally made a statement regarding the incident without the consent of the government. It would also be a sign that the PLA prefers a military solution to the disputed territories with Japan and are willing to push the engagement envelope in order to provoke a direct confrontation between the forces.

I certainly hope the latter is not the case.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Oh, an un-named source told me blah blah blah.... I think we should name him or her, else its just a bunch of lies by the Japanese media working for Abe trying to get his constitutuional amendment across.

SHOW THE EVIDENCE. Funny some people here think contrary to their leagal system of innocense until proven guilty.

-11 ( +4 / -16 )

USNinJapan2

Your over looking organization dynamics. PLA is NOT part of the Government, it part of the Communist party. Technically the government has no authority nor jurisdiction over PLA. The commander and chief is the Communist chairman which also happens to be the top of the government, that is all.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Tony Ew, U.S. and Russia did lock radars on each other during the cold war to harass the other side. In those cases like the most recent with China, it wasn't defensive and was used as psychological warfare.

Besides, as you pointed, a supersonic missile traveling over 3km will get there very fast, so fast that humans will not be able to react in time to get off a return salvo. So, you only have the option of attack or harass at that range. The Chinese vessel also decided to get that close the Japan CG vessel. Plus, you are also talking about a Japanese coast guard vessel, which to my knowledge doesn't have anti-ship missiles. It is a policing vessel not a proper navy anti-ship vessel. They probably have a decent deck gun and some fire hoses for the illegal fishermen in Japan's waters. The Chinese captain should be professional enough to distinguish between a Japanese war vessel designed to sink other ships and a largish police boat. .

"Get fired on and die...." is just a bombastic (and false) way to justify the offense by China and completely unrealistic. After all, when was the last time Japan fired upon China? You will need a very old history book because (a safe assumption here) you were not there. And don't rely on the history books printed by either China or Japan because they both hide (lie about) their own history.

The really interesting and questionable part of the story is the mystery source. It doesn't sound entirely credible that someone in the Chinese navy would admit to something completely denied with a straight face by Chinese politicians (party members). Still, the admission seems somewhat credible because it passes off blame on a frigate captain rather than saying it was a decision made by China itself. Strange, the potential lie (blaming a rogue captain) points to the potential truth (reckless state sponsored harassment), but ultimately only those with the data from the radar know, i.e., Japan, China, and now the U.S.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Took them long enough to admit it after vigorously denying it immediately.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

SmithinJapan, I agree with you to an extent, but the admission didn't come from China, so it isn't official. The official line is it didn't happen; Japan is just being silly and is raising the incident to tarnish China's image and a nice and friendly neighbor.

It is potentially a whistle blower or a back channel communication to avoid admitting things officially. Still, I question the trustfulness and candor of the admission, and think there were either orders to specifically light up the CG vessel or the Chinese military put an inexperienced captain at the controls. I doubt experience played a role, but there was a Chinese pilot who did something questionable before, i..e, hitting a U.S. plane in mid-air and crashing to his death.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Glad the truth is out. I have suspected this all along. Glad Japan is standing firm. Good will come from it.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

USNinJapan2 and Samuraiblue, The leadership of the PLA and the government is all pretty confusing for me.

I have read that Xi, the new communist party Chairman and president of China, is in charge of the military group harassing the Japanese CG. So, there appears to be control over what is said by both the PLA and the official and unofficial (newspapers) comments from China.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Your over looking organization dynamics. PLA is NOT part of the Government, it part of the Communist party.

I'm not overlooking it. To the contrary I pointed out that the PRC Government doesn't have direct control over the PLA, and that we can quite possibly surmise from this incident that it's limited influence over the PLA has diminished even further, which obviously isn't a good thing at all.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@viking68

It's a safety measure installed by the communist party to ensure that even when there is a citizen revolt against the government the military will shield the communist party like the SS(Schutzstaffel) of WW2 era Germany.

One prime example is the first couple of years when Hu Jintao took office, he was not commander and chief of PLA since his predecessor Jiang Zemin did not step down for this spot.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Probie,

It mainly said, the accuse that Japan government raised again and again is not a truth and Japan do this for some unspeakable purpose to denigrate China and mislead the international society. Finally, it warned Japan to stop the irresponsable statements.

It is sad to see such kind of false news can be found on this international webside.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

I find it interesting that a Chinese commander in the field felt safe enough in making a decision like that without higher command authority

I'm going with the back-channel theory, and this will be knowable by what happens to the leaker.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Oh good, the memo from the PLA finally made it to the PRC.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Thanks for the explanation and comparison to a similar function with the SS. Coming from the Western world, the Chinese government, communists and PLA is very confusing, but it makes sense that the PLA is really an army of the communist party and not the government.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The way 'Tony Ew' responds to the facts is exactly how the communist chinese sailors react when faced with decisions beyond their understanding & comprehension - deny, defend, accuse. Get the details of the incidents sorted out in your head first before reacting. Do not so easily confirm what a fool you are, in other words get your feet out of your mouth before you speak.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

China must be contained by the world at large. That's all there is to it. Contained by the world that bought its cheap products and shared its technologies. That era is over。

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How about you don't send military vessels to these islands in the first place? There will be no need for “emergency decision”. Same goes for Japan.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

ok so still he said she said, meaning hearsay

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In this situration no coment is the best comment.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yawn...So what is the big deal about radar lock??? getting a target lock on another vessel is nothing unheard of with military ships,both air and water. Now if a weapons launch would have occurred that would be another issue completely but Radar lock??? Don't get your panties in such a bunch Japan,after all China has ICMBs that are target locked on Tokyo and many other major cities and ports within Japan,that doesn't mean they are being aggressors . sheesh,chill out!

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

ICBMs

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Steve Mcgrew

Don't comment on something you evidently know next to nothing about. Locking of the target acquisition radar does not happen normally between aircraft/vessels of nations that are not at war with each other. Once radar lock is acquired the only step left is batteries away for whatever weapons system is being employed, a step that takes no time at all. Because it is detectable by the other vessel/aircraft, the very act of acquiring a target with radar is the surest and unmistakable way to communicate hostile intent. There is only one way to interpret the action and the outcome too often is escalation, which fortunately the JMSDF crews were mature and calm enough to refrain from. That's why it's so dangerous and that's why Japan is protesting.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

@Steve Mcgrew

Yawn...So what is the big deal about radar lock???

The same big deal as a gun pointed at your face, cocked, and finger on the trigger.

getting a target lock on another vessel is nothing unheard of with military ships,both air and water.

Yes. In war.

Now if a weapons launch would have occurred that would be another issue completely but Radar lock???

Yes, a weapons launch would have been another issue entirely (sometimes referred to as "act of war"). Which in no way diminishes how serious a radar lock is. Just because you had the option to shoot someone in the face, but didn't, will not get you any sympathy for pointing a gun at their face to begin with.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch Japan,after all China has ICMBs that are target locked on Tokyo and many other major cities and ports within Japan,that doesn't mean they are being aggressors . sheesh,chill out!

You have absolutely no sense of proportion. You are seriously comparing a nuclear strike to a radar lock? It's foolish enough to pass judgement on something you are not familiar with, but it is downright idiotic to be dismissive or snide about it when you can't even wrap your head around the scale of the issue.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Well clearly it's unknown whether the radar lock was the work of the CCP, the PLAN or the individual Frigate Captain. In all cases it's not good news for the rest of the world.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Who's this general? Give a name. I just read from Chinese news a military spokesman denied this.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

If the relationsships between opponents are tense I think a radar lock is just another form of communication. It doesnt mean they have the intention to fire but nontheless it is a statement, like; watch out, I see you and I can hurt you. Its like a game but of course the risk for an error escalating the situation increases a lot. More interesting about the comment from China is the possibility that they by this statement are trying something new. Blaming the sailor is a traditional strategy if you want to save face. But why go out publicly at all? Seems the international approval is becoming more important. That is probably a good sign.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Personally, "unnamed officials" sounds rather skeptical to me. Trying to be propaganda-resistant, so I just checked medias from both sides, and as ne-tiger mentioned, there's another different story on China side. For short, regardless of these media stuffs, Japan, why not give out a short proof you claimed to have, instead of telling me such a story with a lot of "uncertainty"?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

So, how should The World react when the Communist Chinese Fire a Torpedo from one of their Submarines in the East or South China Sea at a Japanese Coast Guard Vessel OR a U.S. Warship Killing several Sailors, Deny it - And then later Admit? What then? Just "Sorry about that, it was just some renegade Communist Captain, but he's been reprimanded."

This "incident" may have been just a tap on the shoulder, but sooner or later, directed by Xi or some Admiral in the PLA - They're going to do the unthinkable...it's not a matter of "If" just a matter of "When"...

4 ( +8 / -4 )

This is way too dangerous. What the heck is the rule of engagement by the PLAN? Who has the authority to engage and under what circumstances? I'm more worried about mis-communications. Clearly China and Japan are enemies of each other so there need to be a mutual platform when both military cross paths.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

One thing about NK I like is that they don't pussy-foot around like this. If this was a NK skirmish one of these ships would have been sunk or seriously disabled. -You got to appreciate a country that doesn't mess around.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@m6bobMar. 18, 2013 - 06:10PM JST @viking68Mar. 18, 2013 - 03:20PM JST

Tony Ew, U.S. and Russia did lock radars on each other during the cold war to harass the other side. In those cases like the most recent with China, it wasn't defensive and was used as psychological warfare.

Besides, as you pointed, a supersonic missile traveling over 3km will get there very fast, so fast that humans will not be able to react in time to get off a return salvo. So, you only have the option of attack or harass at that range. The Chinese vessel also decided to get that close the Japan CG vessel. Plus, you are also talking about a Japanese coast guard vessel, which to my knowledge doesn't have anti-ship missiles...

The way 'Tony Ew' responds to the facts is exactly how the communist chinese sailors react when faced with decisions beyond their understanding & comprehension - deny, defend, accuse. Get the details of the incidents sorted out in your head first before reacting. Do not so easily confirm what a fool you are, in other words get your feet out of your mouth before you speak.

Somebody is lying through his teeth in broad daylght and got caught and it is Japan! Japan is the master Numero Uno in setting up an enemy to start a war and poor Hillary don't understand, so she blindly support Japan. Just look at the Mukden Incident to refresh your minds and you will realise Abe had dusted off old Japan's Book Of Deception for modern warfare, this time hoping to draw US into the fight!

"The Chinese officials said that on Jan 30 the frigate and the Japanese destroyer were three kilometers apart in international waters some 110 to 130 kilometers north of the outcrops, the report said" READ JAPANESE DESTROYER

SORRY, YOU ARE NOT HOODWINKING ME, JAPAN HAD A DESTROYER, NOT A COAST GUARD VESSEL NEARBY!

I think now the world see how events unfolded there, Japan should apologize to China, not the other way round! I am ready to be persuaded but show me the Whole Picture and I will level with you okay?

"

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

Sentiments

If the relationsships between opponents are tense I think a radar lock is just another form of communication. It doesnt mean they have the intention to fire but nontheless it is a statement, like; watch out, I see you and I can hurt you. Its like a game but of course the risk for an error escalating the situation increases a lot.

In every instance in my career so far in which I've been painted by a targeting radar the source immediately received a HARM from either me or an accompanying EW bird and presently ceased to exist. It's not a game.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Tony EwMar. 18, 2013 - 11:24PM JST Somebody is lying through his teeth in broad daylght and got caught and it is Japan! Japan is the master Numero Uno >in setting up an enemy to start a war and poor Hillary don't understand, so she blindly support Japan.

Tony, the US has already examined Japan';s data and has concluded that they are right, that the Chinese ship did in fact "paint" the Japanese one. That China denied it is typical of their behavior. That this news is now out leading to confusion is also typical of China. Nobody with half a brain thinks Japan wants to "start a war". Why should they when Japan has been the most pacifist nation on the planet for the last 70 years? And it is China that has been shooting off talk of "starting a war": and "defeating the U.S, fleet".

Just look at the Mukden Incident to refresh your minds and you will realise Abe had dusted off old Japan's Book Of >Deception for modern warfare, this time hoping to draw US into the fight!

Why go back to the Mukden incident when the Imperial Japanese Government behind it hasn't existed since 1945? Let's go back to China invading India, Vietnam, killing UN troops in Korea, or supporting the Khymer Rouge.

I think now the world see how events unfolded there, Japan should apologize to China, not the other way round! I am >ready to be persuaded but show me the Whole Picture and I will level with you okay?

No, China needs to apologize to all of Asia and the whole world. Dicatorships, whether one person or one party quite frankly "suck". For the people in that country and the whole planet. People who support them are usually avid supporters until the truck pulls up in front of their house. Sort of like supporting cannibalism until you end up on the menu.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@USNinJapan2

In every instance in my career so far in which I've been painted by a targeting radar the source immediately received a HARM from either me or an accompanying EW bird and presently ceased to exist. It's not a game.

Your experience illustrates a real professional Cold War exchange between USSR and US I believe. In China Japan case, there is no real world experience between the Chinese and Japan

The Japanese have finesse this game for at least three good outcomes: 1 if the Chinese attack first, China will lose badly in world opinion as an aggressor! 2 if Chinese navy ship attack first, they will be pummeled because as we all know there are maybe only about four destroyers/frigates passing through vs ALL Japanese destroyers, air and land missiles assets nearby, so it is absolutely silly for China to be aggressive IN THAT AREA. Plus US blind support for Japan, almost got ENTRAPPED by Japanese scheme there under the inexperienced Hillary! 3 the Chinese frigate do a radar lock on the Japanese destroyer: THIS IS EXACTLY the outcome the Japanese had planned AND PURPOSELY did not do a counter HARM as you normally do! All Japan want among the options is to just push the Chinese officer to the brink and cause him to do a radar lock. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Back off, collect this radar lock data and market it to the world, to a clueless POTUS Obama that China is the real aggressor. Sorry, Kerry will explain to Obama the Japanese is up to some nasty tricks and it is in fact Japan that is the instigator of this incident!

So you see this is the reason why the Japanese decide to pull a fast one on China, they will win under ALL circumstances but I have unmasked her tricks!

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

So China was lying again? We already knew that. Why is this news? When did China ever tell the truth about anything?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Your experience illustrates a real professional Cold War exchange between USSR and US I believe.

LOL Cold War?! Man, just how old does this guy think I am?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I'm actually more interested in:

The commander of the frigate directed his vessel’s weapons-targeting radar, based on the Chinese military’s rules of engagement, without seeking instructions from the fleet command or navy headquarters, Kyodo cited the Chinese officers as saying. It was not known if the commander had been reprimanded.

If it is true the Chinese Captain followed the ROE, then he shouldn't be reprimanded. You have rules of engagement on hand exactly so not every decision has to be routed up through multiple layers of bureaucracy.

The rules of engagement signify that the Chinese government/Party and People's Liberation Army has pre-determined that under particular conditions, the leakage of SIGINT data and possible political trouble may be tolerated for the gain achievable by using a radar lock. If that's true, and the Chinese Captain followed the rules, then it is utterly hypocritical for the admirals or anyone above him to render punishment.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yeah the real intent is most definitely as you speak of USNinJapan, but humans are also humans, with all of their faults and errors. Back in the day fake targeting was commonplace, a kind of drills. Tony I think you may have had a one coffee to much. If you havent noticed yourself you seem to be blaming Japan with no arguments. The Mukden incident or other names did indeed take place and that is with reference to my Japanese friends who experienced the Japanese educational system first hand. They dont doubt it so why do you say that Japan do.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We have to read this news article with a questioning mind. How likely that “senior Chinese military officials” would admit willingly to any of these? Do you see any doubt in your mind at all about the sources, here we talk about a regime that freedom of speech is minimal? What is the purpose of reporting this news when even the sources cannot be disclosed? This sort of news tends to backfire because the readers are not naïve. As saying goes, we should not trust everything we read in the paper.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Nobody trusts what China says anyway flowers. They could be on a youtube video but if the official CCP policy is to deny it, they will deny it. With a straight face no less.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It becomes quite clear that China does not value long term friendship. It has switched or abandoned its friends when it is convenient or useful to do so. The Chinese goverment intentionally damaged many Japanese of the businesses that was operating inside China (approx. over $126 million in damages), and has also awakened the international community of the risk in future investments in China. They could've stopped but decided not to. The recent locking incident in international waters confirms that there is a problem with Chinese goverment. There are 20,000 Japanese businesses operating inside China and they employ around 10 million Chinese. What this tells you is that the goverment of China will not protect any foreign businesses does not agree with their ideas. Future of the foreign companies looks bleak operating inside China. They could destroy anybody at anytime.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

With the continue threats in the island dispute and high level tension with China, Japan night be more willing to listen to Russia. PM Abe will be Moscow next month to discuss some of the issues and Putin might be willing to listen seriously and possibly negotiate the Kurile islands issue and possibly resolve the dispute with Japan. Since the EC is having financial problems, the Russia is exploring Far East, primilary Japan to improve investments, technology assistance and trade. Russia and Japan might be able to reach some compromise and assist each other. If this happens, this will gradully be a equilizer against Chinese aggression.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It just proved that China is a lier and never trustworthy. A bully and island grabber. But what the heck, the greedy foreign companies put their manufacturing in China making this communist country rich and 2nd to the world economy and power. Yes, it's quite disturbing but should this foreign companies I.e Japan removed their factories there, I wonder who will feed the millions of Chinese hired by these companies. I hope China will learn how to deal with foreign neighbors peacefully and diplomatically.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Tony EwMar. 19, 2013 - 12:36AM JST Sorry, Kerry will explain to Obama the Japanese is up to some nasty tricks and it is in fact Japan that is the instigator of this incident! So you see this is the reason why the Japanese decide to pull a fast one on China, they will win under ALL circumstances but I have unmasked her tricks!

Sure, International opinions are important, but it's not a first time of conflict. There is a history of problems with Chinese goverment. How do explain the $126 millions in damages to the Japanese businesses operating inside China after the fisherman's incident in Senkaku/Daioyu? Chinese goverment could've stopped it at any time. Is this nasty trick by Japanese to let Chinese intentionally damage Japanese business?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@sfjp330

According to your theory, the damages were state sanctioned. This is off topic, but I opine some are, and some are spontaneous. You better believe Japan is not that impartial when dealing with foreigners. See the free reign given to the Black Vans?There is always a wink and a nod, same in US or China or anywhere in the world. Racism is a fact of life, we can only try our best to minimize it. People under extreme anger don't act calmly. At least my pen here is mightier than the sword there, I ticked off many with honest unbiased opinions I hope! I am still waiting for anybody to debunk my observations, ANYONE? All the facade of civilization goes out the window does not matter where, even in US or Japan when peple feel terribly wronged. Just look at history.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Tony Ew Mar. 19, 2013 - 05:40AM JST You better believe Japan is not that impartial when dealing with foreigners. See the free reign given to the Black Vans?There is always a wink and a nod, same in US or China or anywhere in the world. Racism is a fact of life, we can only try our best to minimize it. People under extreme anger don't act calmly.

Maybe that is the human nature. However, did you see any Japanese civilians or goverment vandalize and destroy Chinese owned business in Yokohama or Tokyo?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Tony Ew Mar. 19, 2013 - 06:10AM JST THE CHINESE OFFICER MAY DO JUST A 10 SEC RADAR LOCK and Japan try to frame China as aggressive. It was a warning to back off, not aggressive. Am I wrong? Any expert to clarify this vital distinction?

This sounds exactly like what the Chinese spokesperson is saying. Are you on their payroll? China is saying Japan's campaign to accuse Chinese radars of "locking onto" a Japanese warship is more like a "political drama" to hype the "China threat" and will risk greater tension over the Diaoyu Islands dispute. That the hyped "lock-on incident" serves as part of Japan's excuse for military expansion and lifting legislative limitations on the country's armed forces. Regardless of the circumstances, even if this was set-up by Japan, the Chinese Navy walked right into it. Where is the disipline?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

"Tony Ew Mar. 19, 2013 - 06:10AM JST THE CHINESE OFFICER MAY DO JUST A 10 SEC RADAR LOCK and Japan try to frame China as aggressive. It was a warning to back off, not aggressive. Am I wrong? Any expert to clarify this vital distinction?"

Using weapons-targeting radar is exactly the same as holding a gun to someone's head, and if that is not aggression, I am not sure what is. Why would that need clarification, and why do suppose there is some sort of "vital distinction?" It doesn't make any difference whether it was 1 second or 10 seconds or 10 minutes--how long does it take to pull a trigger or press a button? Such an action is not a warning to "back off," it is hostile action and a blunder of huge proportions. Normally if a naval officer performed such an act on his own he would be removed from command and face disciplinary action, but in the Chinese navy who knows? China is not the most transparent country in the world, and its military is very secretive.

If those senior officers are correct and the commander of that Chinese ship gave that order on his own, then the problem is huge. If the commander of a small ship can perform actions on his own that could start a war, then there is either something lacking in the chain of command in the Chinese navy or there is no discipline at all. China is playing a very dangerous game.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@sfjp330

Tony Ew Mar. 19, 2013 - 06:10AM JST THE CHINESE OFFICER MAY DO JUST A 10 SEC RADAR LOCK and Japan try to frame China as aggressive. It was a warning to back off, not aggressive. Am I wrong? Any expert to clarify this vital distinction?

This sounds exactly like what the Chinese spokesperson is saying. Are you on their payroll? China is saying Japan's campaign to accuse Chinese radars of "locking onto" a Japanese warship is more like a "political drama" to hype the "China threat" and will risk greater tension over the Diaoyu Islands dispute. That the hyped "lock-on incident" serves as part of Japan's excuse for military expansion and lifting legislative limitations on the country's armed forces. Regardless of the circumstances, even if this was set-up by Japan, the Chinese Navy walked right into it. Where is the disipline?

First of all you offer no answer to my question AND you turn around and suggest I am on PRC payroll. Sure, go ahead make my day, search the FBI records, the NSA knows everything I ever wrote. Suggest you have connections there and you will learn nada, zip, zilch, I know nobody in PRC!

No, the Chinese navy did not walk right into it! The Japanese destroyer aka 'stalker' came 3 km close, 10 sec fire range, very dangerous, is this so hard to understand? What will you do when you are stalked and may be fired upon AND IN SHARK (Japanese air sea land forces within range) INFESTED WATERS? Why talk about discipline in such a situation. You have such discipline when YOUR survival is at stake eh?

Your comments about no uncivil acts in Japan. Japan's turn will come in the form of anti nukes, anti TPP among others.Obviously you did not read about low profile hush hush discriminations against non Japanese. Enough said.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Tony Ewww your efforts to justify China's action by villainizing Japan is looking simply sillier and sillier. The real question that needs to be answered is who was responsible? The Chinese government? The Chinese Navy? or the individual captain?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Tony Ew Mar. 19, 2013 - 07:12AM JST No, the Chinese navy did not walk right into it! The Japanese destroyer aka 'stalker' came 3 km close, 10 sec fire range, very dangerous, is this so hard to understand? What will you do when you are stalked and may be fired upon AND IN SHARK (Japanese air sea land forces within range) INFESTED WATERS? Why talk about discipline in such a situation. You have such discipline when YOUR survival is at stake eh?

U.S. gave Japan a adminstrative rights to Senkaku/Daioyu in 1972. If China has the beef, why don't they take up the issue of soverignty or administrative rights with the U.S.? How do you define Japan's administrative rights? Basically, your saying China did not walk right into it, but the patrol ships are going inside the boundaries regularly without respect to Japanese administration area. Who is the actual instigator? If there is a problme of the U.S. made the rules, why don't China ask U.S. to clarify the adminstrative rights. Japan is just following U.S. instructions.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

saketown, china will not apolopgize to japan or personally come to tokyo to apologize, period

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@sfjp330

Somebody still don't 'get it'. Chinese navy ships passing through the 'choke point' near the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands is FREE PASSAGE, not 200 miles EEZ. There is not enough distance to go outside the 200 miles, so it must be inside the 200 miles but definitely not inside the 12 miles coastal zone. ALL SHIPS be it navy or commercial HAVE THE RIGHT to pass through the 200 miles EEZ UNHINDERED, NOT TRAILED by Japanese DESTROYERS. May I remind you again, this is Japanese destroyer, not Coast Guard ship whose function is to enforce 200 miles EEZ, NOT the job of the destroyer!

It is therefore a NO BRAINER that Japan is HARASSING the Chinese frigate in her HOME TURF. Japan will be very fearful to challenge China in the Open Seas! Thus this is a FOREGONE CONCLUSION Japan is the actual instigator. Remember this is ACT I in Japan's scheme to set up China leading to the ACT II radar lock incident. Very clever, but I notice and now the whole world too!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@OssanAmericaMar. 19, 2013 - 07:22AM JST

Tony Ewww your efforts to justify China's action by villainizing Japan is looking simply sillier and sillier. The real question that needs to be answered is who was responsible? The Chinese government? The Chinese Navy? or the individual captain?

Classic Japanese politician modus operandi. Deflections, refusing to answer questions eh? Never mind my skunky smell, don't let it get to you, nothing but the facts ma'am!

The real question is ACT I: who in Japan scheme to set up the Chinese officer to make a warning radar lock? Again, any takers? SHORT radar lock to warn vs LONG radar lock with intention to fire. Why is JP govt conveniently not saying HOW LONG the radar lock incident? Must be hiding something that I can INFER to be a short time not serious matter and Japan use this incident to present to the world she is a victim but in fact a real STEALTH AGGRESSOR as I noticed. Can you counter my hypothesis?

If I am a judge and I ask you twice and you cannot answer my question, I will infer that you are wrong er guilty!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Better late then never and it look like it was not a act of war but only spontaneous action.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@ Tony Ew.

They were in international waters, not Chinese waters, where everyone has a right to be, so there is no justification for either side locking weapons radar. But don't let the basic facts get in the way of your ranting. Your posts have all the hallmarks of someone who is losing touch with reality and who is trying their hardest to impress us all with big words. Typing in upper-case letters doesn't give your points any additional credence - it just appears that you have little confidence that anyone will accept what you write and indicates that you are close to losing the plot altogether. Which part of China are you from, by the way? Don’t bother answering – it’s a rhetorical question.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Tony Ew

I am still waiting for anybody to debunk my observations

No one actually knows where to start to debunk your 'observations' because it's all such total nonsense it would be pointless - like arguing with a lunatic. It's easier to argue with someone who has daft opinions but who has at least a partial grip on reality.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

cierzo98

Typing in upper-case letters doesn't give your points any additional credence - it just appears that you have little confidence that anyone will accept what you write and indicates that you are close to losing the plot altogether

Although I have little knowledge about radar locking incident, I have got bigger pictures because of Tony Ew Posts. His posts are suitable for elderly like me whose are not used to short forms of Internet forum. He tried to simply as plain English. It is acceptable for me. Upper case are necessary for high lighting his emotional response. After all he is the loner of debater for that topic in this forum.

Whether you agree with his post or not is entirely yours. I am not interested in his nationality or region located. I am more interested in his opinion for that incident. There are some pro Japanese posters in that forum. Not all of them are Japanese residents. There are some pro Chinese posters. Not all of them are mainland Chinese. Who cares where they live and work? We are not working for intelligence agency.

One thing is missing in that article is who is that Chinese military official? He may be fraud or imaginary illustration. If Japan has valid evidence, they have to put up for the media. It not they have to shut up. Peace do not sell news paper.

Everyone has freedom of rights to express their natural feeling. If all of the posts are identical, that forum will be so boring.

No one died or injured from that incident. Bygone is bygone. Life goes on!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

If China can have peace with the World, If China could help the undeveloped countries develop rather than spending money on military, then the World would be a better place. Please set a good example and be humble China. We know you are big now.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Jozabad Uruha,

This is hypocritical !

If Japan and other south China sea nations leave their hands of Chinese territories, If the arecraft of the US and Japan, S.Kerea never haunt arround China ....

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The United Nation security council has never came up an agreement that China and her naval vessel ever taking hostile actions at Japan!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@cierzo98

Help yourself to some important research below for your reference. What Japan have is a perfect set up environment to entrap China. Now you won't say it is silly will you?

@Octagon

Writing in capital letters is perfectly necessary in such an important topic. Italics, underline, bold don't work very well before. I don't do so with other topics. AND it surely helps busy busy readers to focus on the stuff that really matters when people do speed reading!

Here is the Japanese Shark Infested Waters that harassed the Chinese navy http://project2049.net/documents/1301_ryukyu_futuregram_sayers.pdf

Explain why the Chinese navy officer is not justified to do the necessary radar lock to warn off the 'sharks'!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Tony Ew

Thank you for your information. You may misunderstood my previous post. What I posted was your posts are simplified and straight forward. It is easier for me to understand.I do not mind about capital and Italics too. As a elderly my vision is not strong. You are the legend for helping older and busy readers to understand more about the topic. I defended as you are not puppet of China. I guess you may be North American Chinese. Who cares what other think and smear about you? You may be an honest poster.

Although you have got many minuses for your posts, I admire your unpaid journalism. Many posters accusing you as propagandanist of China. I disagree with it.

I know you are very sad about rising temperature between China and Japan. You are cooling down the hot air. I am impressive abou your well research too. Many posters are so naive about believing every biased media from both sides. They could not link anything about it.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@ USNin &cabadage.....I hate to be the one to burst your self proclaimed military knowledge expert bubbles but target lock happens many of times each year between opposing military air craft and marine ships. It is a way to comunicate to the other vessel or aircraft that they are being painted and need to operate in a manner that does not display any aggression. It is no different than swinging the 20mm cannons onto the target..Even the US Coast Guard will occasionally swings their patrol vessels guns onto targets such as non aggressive fishing boats and cargo ships Are the Japanese coast guard/armed/Military forces really so easily intimidated??? Sheesh Man upgrow a pair or the Chinese military void your man card?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Octagon

Thank you Octagon,

I am glad you are not one of the blind 'diehards'. Yes, I am Chinese American, flying solo, and I think I have quite a good perspective of reality to offer a balanced researched viewpoint, with a touch of sarcasm! I am sorry for the younger generations especially the younger Japanese generation who shouldn't be dragged through this mud! China have her share of blame too but I want to point out, China REACTED to all the First 'Over The Red Line' Moves by others that necessitates her to respond in all the disputes in the China Seas in order to 'save face' All the disputes would not have occurred if folks understand Chinese post mid 1800's history of being humiliated and not arouse her to defend her 'face'. I also want people to know China is a very tough negotiator, patient, giving very little, so what looks like 'bully' is actually negotiation tactics.

I am glad you are open minded and I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.

Hey Abe, Mr Xi, go back to pre Ishihara time, put back that Humpty Dumpty and get on with making money. Elections over already, time to break promises and be practical. Nationalism is so yesterday and I do love sushi!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This is just another Chinese debacle. 4 years now I've watched news story after news story regarding the Asian Chinese conflict. China plays good cop then bad cop in every other story. They press tensions with blatant tactical moves on one day, of which they find a decent excuse which does not quell everyone's disappointment with them, however it gives them a transitional opt out. Where as on the other hand it seems that they then go on parade to the world speaking of better relations ties and the sort. China is no doubt playing a game. Their claims of land are against the peace of its region. I could remind China that if it were not for the States then China would never have won out against the Japanese. Well since then Japan has been humbled and re-established as a closely tied friend to many countries around the world. In many ways no different then Germany or Italy. I however don't need to point this out because China knows full well this has been the case for nearly 68 years. The truth I gather is that China has only ever uses WW2 references to justify their own expanses. However, the world is now watching and expanding militarily is no long a viable answer. What I believe the Chinese are up to is a good old "Rope'a'dope." China does not intend on a full out engagement because one is not profitable. However, now that their government has equity and a surplus income without deficit/debt, and while other countries namely Japan, USA and the Philippines do. They will simply harry their neighbors into an EXPENSIVE arms show along its frontiers. As governments with large deficits get poorer and poorer and public spending gets thinner an thinner. China will slowly buy up and dominate financial opportunities eventually supplanting the USA as the number one spot. What I would worry about most is; will we step aside and let China take the number one spot or will we see a war. For the Capitalists I'm sorry i don't think prosperity will any longer be possible for most of us.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. Sun Tzu

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Everybody knows that they actually locked a radar on a Japanese destroyer. By denying it and criticizing Japan for "false" allegation, Beijing including the Defense Ministry indirectly scolded the Chinese military officers for discrediting China by doing what they did. And now the Chinese military officers disrespect Beijing again by saying the truth. Discordance seems to be ingrained.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Not good.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When will the JAPANESE government and Shinzo Abe came up to apologise to Chinese people for imtimidating Chinese naval vessel in the high sea that triggared almost an all out war in 2013? The frigate capatain has done a great job, he has protected his men and defended the nation'a honour! Otherwise if he and his crews has done nothing, the ship might sunk like 'Cheonan' the south Korean frigate sunk in 2010 with heavy life loses! A counter measure is necessary when a hostile stalker is stalking! China ahs declared Japan is a hostile nation, China has warned japan if their F15 jets firing a single flare at chinese a civilian plane flew over the disputed isles is to be considered an act of war? China has warned Japan about hostilities back in Mid January, the message was clear enough!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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